Free Durkula

[RMS Oceanic]

For what it is worth, Durkula's armor shifted from Black to Grey during the strip.

Look again, that's just the sand that Nale and Malack's struggle kicked up.

[SlyJohnny]

I was just thinking about this scenario, specifically about what a huge tactical blunder it was to send Durkula away to get the staff. Malack had one round to live, so no matter what happened, Durkon wasn't going to acquire the staff fast enough to make a difference to Malack's fate. And Durkon had more spell levels: he could have ordered him to do something to save Malack, just yelled "save me! shield me from the sun!" and then prayed Durkon had Wall of Stone or something memorized. Hell, at the very least, they could've both attacked Nale and increased Malack's chance of securing his vengeance?

But then I realized. Malack wasn't sending Durkon away to retrieve the staff in order to protect himself. He was sending Durkon away in order to protect Durkon. He wanted Durkon to have ready access to the spell so they can't pull the same one-two combo on him. He gave up whatever fleeting chance of survival he had through Durkon's protection in order to ensure Durkon's safety.

I know he was a horrific, malign entity that talked about organizing death camps in the same offhand way that we'd talk about needing to go pick up more milk... but he died protecting his friend and kinsmate. Poor, lonely vampire :(

[sam79]

But then I realized. Malack wasn't sending Durkon away to retrieve the staff in order to protect himself. He was sending Durkon away in order to protect Durkon. He wanted Durkon to have ready access to the spell so they can't pull the same one-two combo on him. He gave up whatever fleeting chance of survival he had through Durkon's protection in order to ensure Durkon's safety.

That's an interesting interpretation. I'll admit its possible, but I think it is more likely that Malack DID want Durkon to protect him (i.e. Malack), but simply did not think of a more optimal strategy than "get my staff back".

So, thrall without master=free-willed DurkonVamp? If so, tables have just turned decsively in OotS favour.

[Tock Zipporah]

Why even have the staff, if you're not even going to use it? That is like buying food to watch it in your cabinet.

When I play D&D, all my scrolls, wands, and staves gets saved for last. My reasoning us always that my daily spell slots get replenished, for free, tomorrow. Whereas the staff, when the charges run out, costs me money to replace. So if I have a spell memorized and charges in a staff as well, I use the memorized first and save the staff as backup.

[Psyren]

I did, however accuse you of holding a double standard for the two characters.

Based on...?

I want(ed) them both dead equally. Hopefully that's plain enough.

This is a good example, however it does not fit the scenario; Using a spell slot vs using an item are two very different scenarios. With using a spell slot you've got a non-conditional tool that can be used without relying upon an item that you may or may not have at the time, where as with a staff you've got the same tool, but you need to carry around a staff at all times otherwise you can't access it.

The point of the staff is to have both, on the off-chance that you need {ability} more than 2/day, but without tying up valuable spell slots in it.

The Sacrifice rules listed in the BoVD allow you to obtain XP as well as Gold, which is where I was assuming where Malack was obtaining the Gold as well, however he could just use standard GP.

Thing is, we have no idea whether those rules apply to OotS. Anything non-core is subject to Giant approval. And even if he could gain XP that way, the rules for recharging staves would require yet another non-core book.

I think you're being too literal about the staff "holding" the spell. If I were Malack, I wouldn't put a single charge (or even several) in the staff, I'd have it be a permanent aura affecting the wielder. Not so coincidentally, that would means Durkula is safe so long as he has the staff, even if takes him a while to learn the spell himself. Otherwise, what happens tomorrow morning when Durkula's protection's worn off?

That's not how staves work, actually. It's not that he has a stick with "Pro: Sunlight 1/day" or "Pro: Sunlight 3/day." The staff always has a pool of 50 charges at creation, and every spell in it uses a different number of those charges. So every casting of Pro: Sunlight that he did from his staff would be bleeding charges away from any other spells he had in there, such as his "Malack's Instant Spawn" spell. This contributes to Malack being reasonably loathe to cast from the staff when slots are available.

They're also not capable of constant effects while being held - you're thinking of a wondrous item (or a rod), and a custom one at that.

[Estelindis]

Nale waited till his larder was empty, tossed his can opener, Z made him hungry, and he starved to death.

That's a very clever and apt analogy.

[luc258]

Look again, that's just the sand that Nale and Malack's struggle kicked up.

I personally fully expect Durkon's transition from Thrall to free-willed vampire to get a strip of its own. It's a big plot point for a main character.

[RMS Oceanic]

I personally fully expect Durkon's transition from Thrall to free-willed vampire to get a strip of its own. It's a big plot point for a main character.

I disagree. If you see his face in the last panel, it's blank. The other significant time I recall such a thing happening was Miko discovering Shojo's treachery, and that was a similar "we don't know how they're going to react" situation. Any look into Durkon's train of thought may come later.

[Skarn]

Forgive me for explaining the joke, but to make sure I'm reading it right: every tree was about a billion stakes just waiting to stab him in the heart, right?

That or the fact that Thor was busy during his battle due to arguing over a girl who died from an infection she got from a tree splinter, and couldn't offer any help or advice. So, if you think about it, that tree actually killed two people!

[Lossoth]

I personally fully expect Durkon's transition from Thrall to free-willed vampire to get a strip of its own. It's a big plot point for a main character.

Looking forward to this. We might even see Malack saying goodbye as an implanted message, like a cross between Shojo's giant head and Scorpius/Harvey.

"You're free now. Consider worshipping Nergal from now on."

[Jay R]

I'd also like to inquire about the possibility of Durkon becoming a Cleric of Loki

No chance. He did not become Chaotic.

Also, I'm curious why the popular consensus is that Malack got what he deserved.

Because he's an evil, murderous, blood-sucking genocidal abomination, who was planning to betray and kill the person who betrayed and killed him? No, that can't be it.

[Fish]

Malack can be a fascinating character, and still deserve a horrible or humiliating death. See also: Emperor Palpatine, Hans Gruber, Gollum.

[SandboxPenguin]

Durkon might even have his own thralls...

[Zelkon]

Yes to all. I'm not sure where you remember me supporting Tarquin from, but I can assure you you're mistaken. Not only do I want Tarquin dead and to fail, I want him to die in the most ignominious and anticlimactic way possible; a forgotten failure, opposite in every way than his hopes and dreams.



It's more like buying canned goods, when you've got fresh food that will spoil much more quickly. You can eat the canned food, but the stuff in the fridge will go to waste; better to eat the stuff in the fridge, while the canned stuff keeps. If you eat everything in the fridge and find yourself still hungry, or unexpected company comes over, then you bust out the can opener and everyone wins.

Nale waited till his larder was empty, tossed his can opener, Z made him hungry, and he starved to death.



Oh, I'm sure. And it was glorious

I want Tarquin dead in a crowning moment of awesome...for Elan. Elan should humiliate his father, disgrace his reputation, and turn him from an interesting villain to a pathetic disgrace.

[littlebum2002]

You mean besides planning daily mass sacrifices, enjoying the taste of his brothers' blood, killing one of the main characters, and associating with a bride-torturing slave burner?

But he was so nice about it! He's like Hannibal Lector. He's one of the worst bad guys imaginable, but he's such a gentleman you have to root for him a little.

I do not know if this fits D&D rules, but one possibility is that the Malack designed the staff so that it could only cast Protection from Sunlight on himself, ie the staff autotargets whoever is holding it, possibly because he didn't want someone to take the staff from him and use its powers against him. (Some items in Final Fantasy, for example, work like this - the regular spell can target anyone, but the item that casts spell can only target the wearer/user of the item).

In which case, his end was even more karmically fitting.

This can't be the case, because he specifically used the staff's power on Durkon to raise him quickly

Durkon never died though, he merely became a Vampire (undeath). There is a distinct difference between dying and undying. Besides, it was a well known fact that Durkon was going to die in some form or another so I don't understand why this came as a shock to people when it occurred.

No, Durkon is dead. There is a negative energy spirit (or something, I'm not a D&D player) inhabiting his body giving an imitation of life. Remember what Malack says here. He died hundreds of years ago. The person who inhabited his body then and the vampire who has inhabited it since are two completely different individuals. In the same way, the old Durkon is dead and has been replaced with a different creature who just happens to be using his old body.

[Ustauk]

Assuming that Durkon's soul still resides in his body, and has not been swapped out for that of an evil spirit/demon (ie Buffyverse vampires), then I think there's a good chance Durkon will be come a cleric of Hel. According to D&D alignment even if Durkon remains lawful good in alignment despite the vampirism, he can be the cleric of a lawful neutral god. I doubt Thor will take him back in his current condition, but I'm sure Hel would welcome him.

The Giant may borrow an idea from the vampires of Terry Pratchett's Discworld.

The craving for human blood appears to be more an addiction like alcoholism than a strict dietary requirement. Vampires are reported to have some need for extra "haemo-goblins" and must consume blood to survive, but this blood need not be fresh, or even human. The addiction to fresh, human blood is one which a growing number of vampires are beating, with help from support groups like the Überwald League of Temperance (the "Black Ribboners"). They refer to this change in diet as "going cold bat" (cf. cold turkey). Many get jobs at butcher shops or slaughterhouses in order to obtain their sustenance without harming human beings. In giving up human blood, most vampires sublimate their desire into a secondary, more socially acceptable addiction such as coffee, photography (which on the Discworld utilizes salamanders that store and release sunlight), or even politics. Due to their wish for vampires to become accepted as just another minority group in Ankh-Morpork, resident "Black Ribboners" deal with rogue vampires who attempt to prey on other Ankh-Morpork citizens with extreme prejudice.

I could see Durkon being a vampire of the above persuasion. Being a cleric, he'd have a high will score, and could have the will to follow in this path. Just because his sire was an evil bastard, doesn't mean he has to be :)

[Sir_Leorik]

Also, I'm curious why the popular consensus is that Malack got what he deserved.

• He murdered his Lizardfolk brothers, centuries ago.
• He's helped Team Tarquin spread misery across the Western Continent.
• He fed on the blood of prisoners sentenced by the Empire of Blood's kangaroo courts.
• He planned to transform Tarquin's Empire into a smorgasborg for Vampires, where humans and Lizardfolk would be treated like cattle, slaughtered to provide blood for Vampires, and their bodies turned into burnt offerings for Nergal.
• He killed Durkon, and then sired him as a Vampire.
• He treated Durkon as a slave.

Malack's virtues (his friendship with Durkon and his desire not to harm Durkon or the OotS) are outweighed by his sins.

[Occasional Sage]

Malack's got plenty of gold, sure, but XP is another matter entirely. Very, very little can come around to challenge a character of Malack's EL, especially in the rigid and orderly environment of the Empire; the chances of him having gained any XP in the past year even are pretty slim.

Without XP, further crafting is impossible, regardless of his wealth. And given that the spell in question is a custom spell that nobody but him in the entire region would have had reason to research, it's unlikely anyone else would be able to help him with it - even if he weren't keeping his vampirism a secret from the world.

There are few-to-no combat encounters to threaten him, sure, but other challenges can earn XP. He's been running a fair portion of a continent for years now, he must find SOMEthing in that difficult. He can even cast the problem away, as long as it burns more than a handful of spell slots.

[Sir_Leorik]

So I assume there will be an equal reaction when Tarquin dies?

Hey, I like Tarquin and Malack. They're great villains. Notice what word I used: villains. So I'm especially glad that Malack got his comeuppance at the hands of Nale (whom Malack derided as a buffoon). I will be cheering when Tarquin is defeated, hopefully by Elan this time.

They are terrible people, so I cheer their defeat. They are wonderful villains, so I want their defeat to be dramatic and eventful. Nale has clearly been planning this for years, and for once Nale's planning has paid off. By smoking Malack, Nale shakes off years of villain decay, so that when Elan defeats him it will also be very satisfying, as satisfying as Nale's defeat in Azure City was.

[RMS Oceanic]

No, Durkon is dead. There is a negative energy spirit (or something, I'm not a D&D player) inhabiting his body giving an imitation of life. Remember what Malack says here. He died hundreds of years ago. The person who inhabited his body then and the vampire who has inhabited it since are two completely different individuals. In the same way, the old Durkon is dead and has been replaced with a different creature who just happens to be using his old body.

That's Malack's point of view, after centuries of reflecting on it. Maybe newly vamped Malack thought differently about the matter. Also, there is precedent for Intelligent Undead to contain the soul of its former self. Durkon being replaced with a new being is not character development, just a replacement character.

[Sir_Leorik]

When I play D&D, all my scrolls, wands, and staves gets saved for last. My reasoning us always that my daily spell slots get replenished, for free, tomorrow. Whereas the staff, when the charges run out, costs me money to replace. So if I have a spell memorized and charges in a staff as well, I use the memorized first and save the staff as backup.

It really depends on a bunch of factors. At low levels, when spellcasters can prepare at most two to five spells of first and second level spells (or only know two to four different spells of first and second level spells for Sorcerers) scrolls, potions and wands are needed to supplement the meagre spell slots of the casters. Having a scroll of detect secret doors frees the Wizard to prepare enlarge person to cast on the BDF during combat.

As the casters gain levels, it becomes less necessary to rely on scrolls, potions or wands, especially if those items are of a much lower caster level than the spellcaster. Still, you never waste an item if you can prepare a spell. If you know in advance that you will need detect secret doors you should prepare it. If you aren't sure if you'll be in a building with secret doors, it's better to have a scroll handy.

[Sir_Leorik]

No, Durkon is dead. There is a negative energy spirit (or something, I'm not a D&D player) inhabiting his body giving an imitation of life. Remember what Malack says here. He died hundreds of years ago. The person who inhabited his body then and the vampire who has inhabited it since are two completely different individuals. In the same way, the old Durkon is dead and has been replaced with a different creature who just happens to be using his old body.

Here's how it works: Durkon was murdered by Malack via Blood Drain. That meant that he would have risen as a Vampire in 1d3 nights, but Malack was in a rush so he used greater create undead to speed the process up. Vampires, as undead creatures, are sustained by Negative Energy from the Plane of Negative Energy in the Inner Planes. That Negative Energy doesn't replace a Vampire's soul, it replaces the Positive Energy that sustains living things in (A)D&D. Durkon still has his soul, just like Xykon does, but Durkon's Alignment has shifted to Evil, and he is Wiser and more Intelligent and Charismatic than before, so his personality may have been affected.

There is one way that the old Durkon is dead: he is no longer a Cleric of Thor. He is a non-theistic Vampire Cleric now, and given how much Durkon's relationship with Thor meant to him, I can't imagine that he'll be a little bitter about that.

[Psyren]

There are few-to-no combat encounters to threaten him, sure, but other challenges can earn XP. He's been running a fair portion of a continent for years now, he must find SOMEthing in that difficult. He can even cast the problem away, as long as it burns more than a handful of spell slots.

The problem is that there is nothing challenging about that either. These same people have been rigging the entire game for a decade specifically to make sure no challenges to their authority can possibly arise.

But it's moot anyway - as I said earlier, using core rules he could only create more staffs, not recharge the one he has. So opting to use his spell slots is reasonable.

[Hatchet]

I doubt Thor will take him back in his current condition

I've been thinking about this too. I'm sure this was answered before and I just missed it, but where does he get his spells from right now? Could Thor still be granting him spells, for whatever divine reason? Does he get it from Nergal, like his master did? When he summoned that devil, who granted him the spell? On one hand you could say he still had a summoning spell prepared from when he was alive, but we've seen that in OOTSverse divine spells are like requests that the gods grant. Who let him summon the devil?

Either way, I'm very interested to see where this is going. What will he think of himself, or the OOTS? I guess it'll depend on how much of the old Durkon is in there.

[Sir_Leorik]

I've been thinking about this too. I'm sure this was answered before and I just missed it, but where does he get his spells from right now? Could Thor still be granting him spells, for whatever divine reason? Does he get it from Nergal, like his master did? When he summoned that devil, who granted him the spell? On one hand you could say he still had a summoning spell prepared from when he was alive, but we've seen that in OOTSverse divine spells are like requests that the gods grant. Who let him summon the devil?

Either way, I'm very interested to see where this is going. What will he think of himself, or the OOTS? I guess it'll depend on how much of the old Durkon is in there.

Cleric PCs who become Vampires, also become non-Theistic Clerics, and must choose two different Domains from either the Chaos, Destruction, Evil or Trickery Domains.

Any Domain spells Durkon had from the Good Domain (or his other, unspecified Domain from Thor) are gone, but they may have been replaced with Domain spells from his two new Domains.

[Fish]

No chance [of worshiping Loki]. He did not become Chaotic.

How about Hel? I presume that is why Durkon and Malack had the conversation here.

[Quild]

I was just thinking about this scenario, specifically about what a huge tactical blunder it was to send Durkula away to get the staff. Malack had one round to live, so no matter what happened, Durkon wasn't going to acquire the staff fast enough to make a difference to Malack's fate. And Durkon had more spell levels: he could have ordered him to do something to save Malack, just yelled "save me! shield me from the sun!" and then prayed Durkon had Wall of Stone or something memorized. Hell, at the very least, they could've both attacked Nale and increased Malack's chance of securing his vengeance?

But then I realized. Malack wasn't sending Durkon away to retrieve the staff in order to protect himself. He was sending Durkon away in order to protect Durkon. He wanted Durkon to have ready access to the spell so they can't pull the same one-two combo on him. He gave up whatever fleeting chance of survival he had through Durkon's protection in order to ensure Durkon's safety.

I know he was a horrific, malign entity that talked about organizing death camps in the same offhand way that we'd talk about needing to go pick up more milk... but he died protecting his friend and kinsmate. Poor, lonely vampire :(

Hardly. To me Malack has shown his true nature in complete panick.
He calls Durkon "Thrall" in stead of "Brother".
He thinks afterwards he can find shelter, while he obviously can't.
Then, he craves only for revenge.
Finally, he dies.

[Sir_Leorik]

How about Hel? I presume that is why Durkon and Malack had the conversation here.

He could, since Hela's Neutral Evil.

[Psyren]

I was just thinking about this scenario, specifically about what a huge tactical blunder it was to send Durkula away to get the staff. Malack had one round to live, so no matter what happened, Durkon wasn't going to acquire the staff fast enough to make a difference to Malack's fate. And Durkon had more spell levels: he could have ordered him to do something to save Malack, just yelled "save me! shield me from the sun!" and then prayed Durkon had Wall of Stone or something memorized. Hell, at the very least, they could've both attacked Nale and increased Malack's chance of securing his vengeance?

But then I realized. Malack wasn't sending Durkon away to retrieve the staff in order to protect himself. He was sending Durkon away in order to protect Durkon. He wanted Durkon to have ready access to the spell so they can't pull the same one-two combo on him. He gave up whatever fleeting chance of survival he had through Durkon's protection in order to ensure Durkon's safety.

I know he was a horrific, malign entity that talked about organizing death camps in the same offhand way that we'd talk about needing to go pick up more milk... but he died protecting his friend and kinsmate. Poor, lonely vampire :(

I do like this interpretation. And we do know that Malack honored Durkon's final request too, i.e. not blowing the whistle on the Order when he saw them (which, amusingly enough, directly led to his own demise.)

[BrometheusJones]

Poor Malack

Look at that face on Durkon...

Now not under any control, and Im guessing remaining freed of his lawful good over the top dogmatic zealotry, hes going to start thinking, and have an examination of conscience now that Malack is dead. Hes going to think about how he actually threw the first punch, and that Malack really was a good friend who tried all he reasonably could to salvage the friendship. He will harken back to their conversation in 737 and consider that Malack might not have been evil at all. But even if he was, he will be ashamed of himself for acting foolishly and fanatical, and will think that his actions may have strongly though indirectly resulted in his good friends death; a friend that he rejected in haste due to his own deeply ingrained prejudices of what Malack was.

I dont know what spells he has left, I dont really pay attention to that... but Durkon is going to be infuriated, and there is a heavily damaged Nale standing right in front of him; a Nale who killed the friend he rejected that he is now coming to regret having done so.

Someone else is going to die. Probably not Nale, yet. Maybe the drow. Definitely the elemental. Durkon will rejoin the OOTS party and Nale will be his sworn enemy now, and eventually, Durkon will be the one who kills him, in epic, vengeful badass fashion, avenging his rejected friend, and doing what it can to ease his own regretful spirit.

Thats how Id like it to work