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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Feb 2013

    Default Paladin Fix [3.5 Base Class Fix] Peach

    I know I'm not the first to try this, but I'll throw my hat in the ring anyways. After all, the Paladin is one of my favorite classes, and I've been much saddened to see this great class suffer so much at the hands of poorly written mechanics.

    Target Tier: 3-4


    The Paladin (A fix by ironwizard)

    Abilities: Charisma is the most important ability for the Paladin, powering many of his class features. As a front line combatant, a high Constitution is also valuable. Good Strength and Dexterity scores are also useful in combat.
    Alignment: Lawful Good
    Hit Die: d10

    Class Skills:
    The Paladin's Class Skills are unchanged from CORE.
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) Χ 4
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier

    {table=head] Table P-1: The Paladin | Spells Per Day | Spells Known
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

    1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil
    2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Divine Grace, Lay on Hands
    3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Aura of Courage, Divine Health
    4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Turn Undead
    5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Special Mount
    6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+5|Remove Disease, Leadership
    7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+5|Mettle
    8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+6|Rapid Healing
    9th|+9/+4|+6|+3|+6|Defensive Expertise
    10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+7|Holy Aura, Aligned Strike
    11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+7|Full Round Smite
    12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+8|Remove Curse
    13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+8|Defensive Expertise
    14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+9|Swift Healing
    15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+9|Impenetrable Mind
    16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+10|Divine Guidance
    17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10|Defensive Expertise
    18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+11|Break Enchantment
    19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+11|Holy Radiance
    20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+12|Divine Champion

    [/table] | {table=head]1|2|3|4|5

    —|—|—|—|—
    —|—|—|—|—
    —|—|—|—|—
    0|—|—|—|—
    0|—|—|—|—
    1|—|—|—|—
    1|0|—|—|—
    1|0|—|—|—
    2|1|—|—|—
    2|1|0|—|—
    2|1|0|—|—
    3|2|1|—|—
    3|2|1|0|—
    3|2|1|0|—
    4|3|2|1|—
    4|3|2|1|0
    4|3|2|1|0
    4|4|3|2|1
    4|4|3|3|2
    4|4|4|4|4

    [/table] | {table=head]1|2|3|4|5

    —|—|—|—|—
    —|—|—|—|—
    —|—|—|—|—
    2*|—|—|—|—
    2*|—|—|—|—
    3|—|—|—|—
    3|2*|—|—|—
    3|2*|—|—|—
    4|3|—|—|—
    4|3|2*|—|—
    4|3|2*|—|—
    5|4|3|—|—
    5|4|3|2*|—
    5|4|3|2*|—
    6|5|4|3|—
    6|5|4|3|2*
    6|5|4|3|2*
    6|6|5|4|3
    6|6|5|5|4
    6|6|6|6|6

    [/table] [/table]


    Class Features
    Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The Paladin is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, all armors, and all shields (including tower shields).
    Spells: Beginning at 6th level (or 4th if the Paladin has a sufficient CHA modifier) a paladin my begin to cast a small number of divine spells as shown on the table below. Paladins cast their spells spontaneously with CHA as their casting stat. A Paladin's spell list is unchanged from CORE for levels 1-4. For higher levels, spell list coming soon.
    Aura of Good: Unchanged
    Detect Evil: At will, as a swift action, the Paladin may use detect evil, as the spell (except for the action change).
    Smite Evil (Su): A number of times per day equal to half the Paladin's level plus his CHA mod, the Paladin may declare he is going to attempt to Smite Evil with an attack. He adds his CHA mod to the attack roll, and if it hits, his Paladin level to the damage roll. If the target is not evil, no additional damage is dealt, but the attempt is still wasted. If the attack simply misses, the attempt is not wasted. If the Paladin has multiple attacks in a round, he may only apply the smite benefits to one of them (player's choice). At level 11, the Paladin may add the smite bonuses to all of his attacks in a round (consuming only a single attempt).
    Divine Grace: Unchanged
    Lay on Hands: Beginning at 2nd level, a paladin with a Charisma score of 12 or higher can heal wounds (his own or those of others) by touch. Each day he can heal a total number of hit points of damage equal to his paladin level Χ half his Charisma score. A paladin may choose to divide his healing among multiple recipients, and he doesn't have to use it all at once. Using lay on hands is a standard action.

    Alternatively, a paladin can use any or all of this healing power to deal damage to undead creatures. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. The paladin decides how many of her daily allotment of points to use as damage after successfully touching an undead creature.
    Aura of Courage: Unchanged
    Divine Health: Unchanged
    Turn Undead: Unchanged
    Special Mount: Unchanged
    Holy Vigor (Su): A Paladin is blessed with his Deity's power. He receives Fast Healing equal to one fifth his Paladin level (rounded down) at all times.
    Remove Disease: Unchanged (But see below)
    Leadership: Paladins are often called upon by their deity to lead in times of strife and war. If, at 6th level, a Paladin takes the Leadership feat (as his normal 6HD feat), he doubles all positive modifiers to his Leadership score, including his CHA mod (but not his HD). If he does not take Leadership, he may instead select another feat for which he meets the prerequisites. This feat must either be a fighter bonus feat, a divine feat, or an exalted feat (if your DM allows it). A Paladin may freely select Leadership at a later time, but he does not receive the double bonus in such case.
    Mettle (Ex): If a Paladin makes a successful Will or Fortitude saving throw against an attack that normally has a partial effect on a successful save, he instead suffers no ill effect.
    Rapid Healing (Su): At level 8, a Paladin may use Lay on Hands as a move equivalent action.
    Defensive Expertise: On the battlefield, the Paladin is a bastion of stability and defense. As such, at the levels indicated, he may select one ability from the following list.
    Armor of God (Su): A Paladin is protected not just by his equipment, but also by his deity's power. He adds his CHA modifier to his Armor Class as an untyped bonus.
    Shield Expertise (Ex): As defensive warriors, Paladins are well trained in the use of a shield, able to do more than just stand behind it. The Paladin may add his shield bonus to his touch AC.
    God Speed (Su): For some Paladin's, the best defense is blinding speed, granted them by their deity. The Paladin may add his CHA mod to his initiative checks.
    Defensive Block (Ex): Continuing the theme of shield proficiency, a Paladin is able to use his shield to protect from more than just conventional attacks. He may now add his Shield bonus to his Reflex Saving throws.
    Feat: In place of one of these abilities, a Paladin may select any 'defensive' feat. (A 'defensive' feat is one that provides a bonus, either explicitly or implicitly to Armor Class, Initiative, Saving Throws, or provides some other way of reducing incoming damage or other hostile effects. If you're unsure, check with your DM if a given feat qualifies.)
    Holy Aura (Su): At 10th level, a Paladin has become such a champion of righteousness that his deity's power ebbs from him into the surrounding area. He generates a 5-foot radius aura of holy energy granting Fast Healing to all Good creatures (and neutral creatures the Paladin indicates as allies) within it equal to his personal Fast Healing from Holy Vigor minus 1. (So a 10th level Paladin with Fast Healing 2 from Holy Vigor exudes an Aura of Fast Healing 1). Evil creatures in this aura instead take a like amount of damage each turn they remain in the aura.
    Aligned Strike (Su): At 11th level, the Paladin's melee attacks are considered lawful and good aligned for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction.
    Remove Curse (Sp): At 12th level, the Paladin is able to cure curses as well as diseases. He may spend his weekly uses of Remove Disease to use Remove Curse, as the spell, instead.
    Rapid Healing (Su): At level 14, a Paladin may use Lay on Hands as a swift action.
    Impenetrable Mind (Ex): At 15th level, the Paladin's devotion to his deity and cause becomes so much a part of his being that he is able to resist effects that would cause him to stray from his path. He becomes immune to all mind-affecting effects, regardless of their source.
    Divine Guidance (Sp): By 16th level, the Paladin is dealing with foes powerful enough to warrant more than just passing attention and interest by his deity. As such, the Paladin may commune with his deity, as the spell, once per day to seek guidance, but without having to pay the XP cost.
    Break Enchantment (Sp): At 18th level, the Paladin is able to restore the mind as well as remove curses and diseases. He may spend his weekly uses of Remove Disease to use Break Enchantment, as the spell, instead.
    Holy Radiance (Su): At 19th level, the holy power within a Paladin can no longer be contained. He glows with a holy light equal to that of a daylight spell. In addition, evil creatures that look upon him must succeed on a Will save (DC = the Paladin's class level plus his CHA mod) or be panicked for 1d4 rounds. Success means that they are only shaken. Neutral creatures must succeed at a Will save (same DC) or be frightened. Success means they are unaffected. Succeed or fail, a creature can only be affected by a Paladin's Holy Radiance ability once per 24 hours. A Paladin may suppress or resume this ability at will as a swift action, or may reduce the intensity to only that of a light spell. If the intensity is reduced, neutral creatures must save or be shaken, and evil creatures must save or be frightened, suffering from being shaken even if they succeed. Neutral creatures indicated as allies by the Paladin are immune to this effect.
    Divine Champion (Varies): At 20th level, the Paladin has become wholly a servant of his deity's will, and is blessed with a number of abilities towards the furthering of his deity's ideals. First, the Paladin ceases to age. Bonuses still accrue and the Paladin will still die when his time is up. This is an extraordinary ability. Second, the Paladin's very skin flows with his deity's power. Any evil creatures striking the Paladin with a melee weapon from within 5 feet suffer 2d6 points of damage that is treated as good, lawful, and magical for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. This is a supernatural ability. Finally, the Paladin himself gets damage reduction 5/Evil AND Chaos. This is a supernatural ability.

    Multiclass note: The previous restriction on Paladin multiclassing has been removed. Prestige Classes that state that Paladins may freely multiclass with them now stack with Paladin levels for determining Smite Evil uses per day and extra damage, as well as Lay on Hands amount.

    Edit Log:

    v1.0 (7/31) - Base
    v1.1 (8/1) - Added 5th level spells, improved Lay on Hands heal amount, spelled out Mettle.
    Last edited by ironwizard; 2013-08-01 at 10:34 AM.

    My Homebrew:
    The Eldritch Stalker, Warlock/Rogue Gish PrC
    The Divergent Elementalist, an arcane casting PrC based on the Fire/Ice duality/opposition
    The Arcanist, a Metamagic Focused Arcane Base Class
    Paladin Fix
    Divine Crusader Fix (Abandoned)

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Paladin Fix [3.5 Base Class Fix] Peach

    1) Change Smite mechanics to PF's, but keep your uses per day. PF has a much more useful version.
    2) Half casting. Paladin/Rogue partial casting is lame. Bump it up to Bard casting
    3) Mettle... I'd describe the effect here, not just provide a reference
    4) You know? I always forget about that multiclassing rule...
    Avatar by Venetian Mask. It's of an NPC from a campaign I may yet run (possibly in PbP) who became a favorite of mine while planning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razanir View Post
    Everyone knows frying pans are actually weapons that people repurpose for cooking
    I am a 10/14/11/15/12/14 LG Clr 2

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Paladin Fix [3.5 Base Class Fix] Peach

    In general I like this a lot, it is a very good way to improve the paladin to be more desirable in game. I especially love the new uses for remove disease and the Defensive Expertise. The only things I would suggest is agreeing with Razanir to boost the spellcasting, or keep the spellcasting as it is but maybe improve Lay on Hands. I've always felt that it just heals way too little. But I like this, I really do. Might actually want to play a paladin like this someday.
    Spoiler: Sigs about the Internet and Life
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacior
    If I can get a pet dinosaur, I totally will. My low wisdom means a raptor looks like a great guard dog.


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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2013

    Default Re: Paladin Fix [3.5 Base Class Fix] Peach

    Quote Originally Posted by Razanir View Post
    1) Change Smite mechanics to PF's, but keep your uses per day. PF has a much more useful version.
    How's it work in PF? I've never played.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razanir View Post
    2) Half casting. Paladin/Rogue partial casting is lame. Bump it up to Bard casting
    Maybe, but I'm wary of abuse with Battle Blessing (that and I don't want to create a new spell list, even if it is only for two levels :P). Also Paladin has never been that casting heavy in past editions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razanir View Post
    3) Mettle... I'd describe the effect here, not just provide a reference
    I can do that

    Quote Originally Posted by Razanir View Post
    4) You know? I always forget about that multiclassing rule...
    Sucktastic rule isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Haluesen View Post
    In general I like this a lot, it is a very good way to improve the paladin to be more desirable in game. I especially love the new uses for remove disease and the Defensive Expertise. The only things I would suggest is agreeing with Razanir to boost the spellcasting, or keep the spellcasting as it is but maybe improve Lay on Hands. I've always felt that it just heals way too little. But I like this, I really do. Might actually want to play a paladin like this someday.
    For Lay on Hands, do you mean improve by increasing the numbers? Or by giving it more varied uses? I've seen fixes that let you remove status conditions for instance but giving up some of the healing.

    My biggest question really is: Is this balanced for the target tier?

    And thanks for the input!
    Last edited by ironwizard; 2013-08-01 at 01:00 AM.

    My Homebrew:
    The Eldritch Stalker, Warlock/Rogue Gish PrC
    The Divergent Elementalist, an arcane casting PrC based on the Fire/Ice duality/opposition
    The Arcanist, a Metamagic Focused Arcane Base Class
    Paladin Fix
    Divine Crusader Fix (Abandoned)

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Paladin Fix [3.5 Base Class Fix] Peach

    Hmm well my games tend to be tier 3, lots of combat effectiveness and fair versatility out of combat. So yeah, I think this class would work well in one of my typical campaigns, so I would say it is basically tier 3 to me, maybe high tier 4 possibly.

    And I would say more healing, because at least to me Lay on Hands always seems to have pathetic healing. I don't want it to take over for cure spells, but maybe just a little bit more than what it typically does.

    Example: at the level lay on hands is acquired, the paladin can heal 6-9 hp per day. At level 5 this is typically 15-20 hp per day. But among a team of 4-6 characters? That is really just emergency heals when the rest of the team is out, and I think maybe the paladin deserves better than that. But that's just me. Other than that I like the things here.
    Spoiler: Sigs about the Internet and Life
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Amidus Drexel View Post
    Yeah... even if it's a fairly friendly place by the internet's standards... it's still the internet. A certain level of pedantic bickering is to be expected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    The forums can't universally agree that the sun will rise in the east. Disagreement is what we do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacior
    If I can get a pet dinosaur, I totally will. My low wisdom means a raptor looks like a great guard dog.


    Awesome Holy Knight Haluesen avatar done by the uber skilled Grinner!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Paladin Fix [3.5 Base Class Fix] Peach

    Quote Originally Posted by ironwizard View Post
    How's it work in PF? I've never played.
    Link. It lasts until the target is dead, bypasses their DR, and provides an AC bonus against their attacks. And still has the normal damage boost. Overall, though, it's just more interesting than a single bonus to a single attack.

    Maybe, but I'm wary of abuse with Battle Blessing (that and I don't want to create a new spell list, even if it is only for two levels :P). Also Paladin has never been that casting heavy in past editions.
    I just think it needs either bard casting or no casting. With Paladin/Ranger casting, no one really uses it as an actual part of a build, AT ALL, that I've seen. The most would be getting a prereq, like "Oh yeah, Pallies do have divine spells..."

    Sucktastic rule isn't it?
    No, as in I literally forgot about it. I remember there's a similar rule for monks that I purposefully ignore. I literally didn't realize there was the same rule for paladins.

    For Lay on Hands, do you mean improve by increasing the numbers? Or by giving it more varied uses? I've seen fixes that let you remove status conditions for instance but giving up some of the healing.
    Status conditions, most likely. It's another retrofit from PF.
    Avatar by Venetian Mask. It's of an NPC from a campaign I may yet run (possibly in PbP) who became a favorite of mine while planning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razanir View Post
    Everyone knows frying pans are actually weapons that people repurpose for cooking
    I am a 10/14/11/15/12/14 LG Clr 2

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Feb 2013

    Default Re: Paladin Fix [3.5 Base Class Fix] Peach

    Updated.

    Added 5th level spells known/per day
    spelled out Mettle
    Improved Lay on Hands to be Paladin Level x 1/2*CHA Score.
    Changed Multiclass note to have Paladin multiclasses advance Lay on Hands as well.

    Perhaps Duskblade Casting? (Not as many spells per day I think) I'm also wary of granting too much improved casting, because it might suggest reducing BaB, Hit Die, or other front-line combat things, and that's not an option.
    Last edited by ironwizard; 2013-08-01 at 10:51 AM.

    My Homebrew:
    The Eldritch Stalker, Warlock/Rogue Gish PrC
    The Divergent Elementalist, an arcane casting PrC based on the Fire/Ice duality/opposition
    The Arcanist, a Metamagic Focused Arcane Base Class
    Paladin Fix
    Divine Crusader Fix (Abandoned)

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2013

    Default Re: Paladin Fix [3.5 Base Class Fix] Peach

    Quote Originally Posted by Razanir View Post
    Link. It lasts until the target is dead, bypasses their DR, and provides an AC bonus against their attacks. And still has the normal damage boost. Overall, though, it's just more interesting than a single bonus to a single attack.
    I'm going to hold off on that for now, because Aligned Strike should take care of a lot of DR on evil things, and you can already get CHA to AC from Defensive Expertise.

    (EDIT: sorry for the double post, the result of trying to multitask -_-)
    Last edited by ironwizard; 2013-08-01 at 10:47 AM.

    My Homebrew:
    The Eldritch Stalker, Warlock/Rogue Gish PrC
    The Divergent Elementalist, an arcane casting PrC based on the Fire/Ice duality/opposition
    The Arcanist, a Metamagic Focused Arcane Base Class
    Paladin Fix
    Divine Crusader Fix (Abandoned)

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2013

    Default Re: Paladin Fix [3.5 Base Class Fix] Peach

    Duskblades get lots of spells per day. They just have a very small pool to choose from. That's typically why Arcane Strike is such a strong feat for them.

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