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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Because we needed a level 0 one.

    Prismatic Mote
    Evocation [Light]
    Level: Sor/Wiz 0
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25 ft + 5 ft/2 caster levels)
    Target: One creature
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: See text
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    You create a tiny mote of light that sparkles with the colors of the rainbow and fire it at your foe. Upon a successful ranged touch attack, your foe rolls on the following table for spell effect.

    {table=head]Roll|Color|Effect
    1|Red|1 fire damage
    2|Orange|2 acid damage
    3|Yellow|3 electricity damage
    4|Green|-2 Strength penalty (penalty lasts 1 round; Fort save negates)
    5|Blue|-2 Dex penalty (penalty lasts 1 round; Ref save negates)
    6|Indigo|-2 Wis penalty (penalty lasts 1 round; Will save negates)
    7|Violet|dazed for one round (Will save negates)
    8|{colsp=2}Struck by two colors; roll twice more, ignoring any 8 results[/table]

    Penalties from multiple castings of this spell do not stack, nor do they stack with other such penalties, although individual castings (such as an 8 followed by two 6s) do stack.
    Last edited by Noctis Vigil; 2013-08-08 at 02:37 AM.

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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    great little spell, extremely useful and fun to wield, but you misspelled "dazzled" wrong. Do these penalties stack in the case of a quickened spell combined with a normal casting?

    what happens if you roll an 8, then two identical numbers, then cast your non-quickened one, rolling an 8 then the two same numbers as before (effectively rolling a single effect 4 times in a round)?
    Last edited by LordErebus12; 2013-08-04 at 10:57 PM.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    ooooooh pretty.

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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    I kinda like it.

    I would have gone for a con penalty on green because green is usually associated with poison and poison most often does con damage.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Thanks for the typo catch. I thought penalties never stacked, only damage, unless the spell states otherwise? I don't see it as a huge issue if they do; I mean, the penalty only lasts one round, and penalties can never drop you to 0 in a stat. Could be broken with metamagic, but then, what can't be?

    EDIT: Oh my, lots of responses! I could change it to Con, but that seems a little strong for a 0 level spell. If I did that, I'd definitely change the penalty to Con in my other Prismatic spells as well.
    Last edited by Noctis Vigil; 2013-08-04 at 11:02 PM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoPhoenix0 View Post
    I kinda like it.

    I would have gone for a con penalty on green because green is usually associated with poison and poison most often does con damage.
    Suffering a Con penalty that lasts for 1 round has confusing effects on HP. I think the spell is just right as written.

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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadskye View Post
    Suffering a Con penalty that lasts for 1 round has confusing effects on HP. I think the spell is just right as written.
    good point.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    I would increase damage to 1d4 to match with other Level 0 spells. That said, I could totally imagine people spamming this in PF, where level 0 spells are free
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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Razanir View Post
    I would increase damage to 1d4 to match with other Level 0 spells. That said, I could totally imagine people spamming this in PF, where level 0 spells are free
    Because it does vairable damage making it 1d4 would probably be a bit much. It is a versatile if somewhat random spell.

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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Great little spell. I think the damage is fine as is.

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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    I agree that the effects should be slightly more powerful. If you can't choose which effect you get, the individual effects should be more powerful. The only thing that would make this spell preferable to just picking the spell that has the effect you actually want is the possibility of an eight, or series of eights. You should pick up the damage to at least 1d3, to match up with other cantrip damage spells, but you might also want to push it to 1d4, to give the spell an edge. I mean, the ability score penalties are pretty bad effects, when you think about it. It might even be worthwhile to increase the majority of the effects to two, instead of one. Also, the dazzling is wrong in a couple of ways. It's basically patterned after flare, so it should probably be a fortitude save, and at least a minute of effect. Basically, the goal is for all of the effects to be slightly more powerful than anything else of its level. Not a lot, because this is a cantrip, but at least a little.

    Edit: Actually, I just figured it out. I think you wanted dazed rather than dazzled, to pattern it after the spell daze.
    Last edited by eggynack; 2013-08-05 at 06:22 PM.

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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Dazzled is correct. It's mote of light after all. Maybe the spell should have the Light descriptor too.

    Dazzled
    The creature is unable to see well because of overstimulation of the eyes. A dazzled creature takes a -1 penalty on attack rolls, Search checks, and Spot checks.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-08-05 at 09:01 PM.
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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Dazzled is correct. It's mote of light after all. Maybe the spell should have the Light descriptor too.

    Dazzled
    The creature is unable to see well because of overstimulation of the eyes. A dazzled creature takes a -1 penalty on attack rolls, Search checks, and Spot checks.

    Debby
    Maybe, but then it should be dazzling. Either it's a one round will save, in which case it should be a dazing, or it's a one minute fort save, in which case it should be a dazzling. The current set up is a bit illogical. I kinda like dazing more actually, because it gives you some real impact. Dazzling just seems too weak to be attached to the highest tier of the prismatic mote. In any case, I think that all of the effects should be slightly enhanced, to reflect the fact that you're leaving what happens up to the whims of chance. I mean, when is giving a -1 penalty to a stat for a round going affect anything at all, and if I want that terrible effect, I'm not going to leave that happening up to chance. I'd pump it to -2 at least, so that you're sure to cause at least a slight detriment to the enemy's abilities. I don't want my spells to ever have absolutely no effect, even if they're cantrips.
    Last edited by eggynack; 2013-08-05 at 09:18 PM.

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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    It is normally a Fortitude save to avoid being dazzled (see flare spell for example) or a Will save to avoid being dazed (see daze spell).

    Guess we'll have to wait to see from Noctis to see which is correct.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    I actually dropped it from dazed to dazzled when I wrote this, but I could see upping it back to dazed. Not upping to a full minute though, then we start stepping on the toes of other cantrips. Likewise, not gonna boost the damage much, and will leave it non-variable, just to avoid as much metamagic nonsense as possible. Also, the [Light] descriptor is a good thought, can't believe I overlooked that one.

    Edits should be up in a moment, PEACH away.

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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Looks cool. A fun little cantrip to sling around.

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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    I actually dropped it from dazed to dazzled when I wrote this, but I could see upping it back to dazed. Not upping to a full minute though, then we start stepping on the toes of other cantrips. Likewise, not gonna boost the damage much, and will leave it non-variable, just to avoid as much metamagic nonsense as possible. Also, the [Light] descriptor is a good thought, can't believe I overlooked that one.

    Edits should be up in a moment, PEACH away.
    But, y'know, you're just making something that's strictly worse than other options. Like, if you ask me if I want to deal xd6 fire damage, xd6 cold damage, or one of the two randomly, the third is never the right option, because then you end up running around shooting fire at fire elementals, and that's never a good time. You should get a bonus for leaving the ultimate effect up to chance, not a penalty. There're two major ways to do that. The first is that you have all of the effects a bit above average, and the second is that most of the effects are sub par, and a couple of the effects are significantly above average. I generally prefer the first option, in which case you should probably keep all of the effects a bit more powerful than normal cantrips, but the second way is also viable. Maybe you can have the "super effect" be a color spray or something. That'd be kinda neat.

    Edit: The new version is quite a bit closer to what I'd figure it should be. The ability score penalties could still use some love, because those really don't do anything, and the dazing might want a little more power. This is definitely better though.
    Last edited by eggynack; 2013-08-05 at 10:22 PM.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    It does seem a bit like Red got the short end of the stick, with both the least damage and most common resistance/immunity, but I guess that's in line with the idea of rolling a 1.

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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Plerumque View Post
    It does seem a bit like Red got the short end of the stick, with both the least damage and most common resistance/immunity, but I guess that's in line with the idea of rolling a 1.
    I actually kinda like that, because it fits with prismatic spray. Actually, it might make the spell more interesting if it goes 1, 2, 4, to fit with the original damage numbers. That'd be pretty cool.

    Edit: Maybe the penalties could fit a similar pattern. 1, 2, 4 might be a bit much, but 1, 2, 3 might be reasonable. Just a thought. -1 for a round just doesn't seem like it even has corner case value.
    Last edited by eggynack; 2013-08-05 at 10:38 PM.

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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Plerumque View Post
    It does seem a bit like Red got the short end of the stick, with both the least damage and most common resistance/immunity, but I guess that's in line with the idea of rolling a 1.
    Look at any of the SRD Prismatic spells.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by eggynack View Post
    I actually kinda like that, because it fits with prismatic spray. Actually, it might make the spell more interesting if it goes 1, 2, 4, to fit with the original damage numbers. That'd be pretty cool.

    Edit: Maybe the penalties could fit a similar pattern. 1, 2, 4 might be a bit much, but 1, 2, 3 might be reasonable. Just a thought. -1 for a round just doesn't seem like it even has corner case value.
    I'm just a little bit leery about upping it. Even in the rare corner case, letting a 0 level spell do -4 penalty to a stat seems...yeah.

    ...Eh, it'd be really rare, and -2 is more useful. Upped. PEACH away.

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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    I say go for 4 electricity damage on yellow.

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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    I'm just a little bit leery about upping it. Even in the rare corner case, letting a 0 level spell do -4 penalty to a stat seems...yeah.

    ...Eh, it'd be really rare, and -2 is more useful. Upped. PEACH away.
    Yeah, that seems reasonable. -2 seems like a good balance, and doing the increasing modes twice doesn't quite fit the pattern of the original anyway. My general parameters for a spell is that it be worth casting over other spells of its level, without being the only thing I cast. I dunno if this would ever uproot my usual loadout of as many prestidigitations and detect magics as I can carry, with maybe another utility spell as backup, but that's generally true for any 0th level that you're expected to cast in combat anyways. I suppose that the real question is whether I'd cast this over something like acid splash, and I'd put it at a definite maybe, so it probably works out fine. The action cost is generally far too high, but this seems kinda nifty.

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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    This is a really nifty spell, but I think the ability penalties should last longer. Instead of 1 round, could it be 1 minute?

    Dazed should still be only 1 round, since denying someone their actions is very strong. In fact, I wonder if this spell should be tied to a HD limit, like daze or sleep is? There is no particular reason a cantrip should be able to affect a 20 HD monster at all, even if it rolls a 1 on its saving throw.

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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    One minute is way too long for a 0-level spell.

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    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    One minute is way too long for a 0-level spell.
    I was thinking of guidance, resistance and virtue. Touch of fatigue is 1 round/level, but I think I like flat durations better for cantrips.

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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    If that was the only effect, then one minute makes sense but this has 8 and it really shouldn't mimic other 0 level spells exactly.

    Debby
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    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    If that was the only effect, then one minute makes sense but this has 8 and it really shouldn't mimic other 0 level spells exactly.

    Debby
    Why not? Several of a prismatic spray's effects directly mimic other spells, so it seems reasonable to have some mimicry involved.

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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    The other spells have other ways to defeat them. Prismatic Wall's effects can be countered by other spells. This doesn't have that ability.

    Debby
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    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
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    Default Re: "RAINBOW!!!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    The other spells have other ways to defeat them. Prismatic Wall's effects can be countered by other spells. This doesn't have that ability.

    Debby
    I'm talking about prismatic spray here, rather than prismatic wall. Prismatic spray just kinda happens, and is a targeted effect, while prismatic wall cannot just happen, and is a wall. There's a lot more equivalency with the spray than with the wall. I guess we could create a first level spell called prismatic tissue paper, where all the effects are dispelled by cantrips, but that's an odd thing right there. In the meantime, I don't see why we can't have some effects be other cantrips. I think it creates a cool symmetry, so I'd actually probably prefer the spell if it had a couple more direct cantrip copies. Presumably, the green effect would keep its ability penalty causing nature, to reflect the green effect of prismatic spray. In that version, the dazing effect would stay the same, though it could move a little along the spectrum, and the final two abilities would try to copy the spray effects as much as possible. This way is neat too though. It's not like this has to just be minor prismatic spray, but there's an aesthetic appeal to symmetry like this.

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