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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default [THREAD CLOSED][PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    Edit: PLEASE JOIN US ON THE NEW THREAD!


    So pumped

    For the lazy:

    We are proud to present a new line of products, called the Path of War, introducing martial classes and disciplines once popularized by the Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords.

    The Path of War will take our dedication to balance and functionality that has graced Psionics Unleashed, Psionics Expanded and Ultimate Psionics and apply that to one of the most loved and controversial systems from the Dungeons & Dragons-era.

    Chris Bennet has been brought in as Lead Designer for this ambitious project which will go into Alpha Playtesting as soon as possible. We believe in the spirit Paizo set fort when it playtested the Pathfinder Rules and we followed in their footsteps with everything we have produced since.

    We look forward to your thoughts and ideas and hope that the Path of War will introduce you to new and interesting mechanics for your Pathfinder game. Naturally, there will be some new psionic material in these releases as we strive towards material that supports eachother.
    New - Update as of 10-9-2013

    Another long-time GitP poster, Lord_Gareth, has been brought on board to "assist with the Warder's thematic elements, specifically on Code of Conducts" as well as mechanical elements of the classes.

    Edit:

    This thread has been gathering way more attention than I anticipated, so I wanted to go ahead and update the first post with some basic information:

    The Classes
    -The Warlord, along with four disciplines, has progressed through alpha and is now in beta playtesting. A fifth discipline, Thrashing Dragon, is included in the Stalker playtest, below.

    -The Stalker is in alpha playtesting. The Stalker playtest also has feats for bringing maneuvers and stances to non-initiators, as well as feats specifically for initiators. A future update will have style feats (a la Ultimate Combat) for the various disciplines. The stalker also has access to the Broken Blade discipline found in the Warder playtest and the Solar Wind discipline found in the Warlord playtest.

    -The Warder is up! Make sure you have version 3 - version 2 was an early-alpha version that was accidentally released. The Warder has access to the Primal Fury and Golden Lion disciplines, found in the Warlord playtest. The Archer Lords of the White Steppes Warder sect has access to Solar Wind, also found in the Warlord playtest.

    -Discussion for the Path of War is taking place primarily in three places: Right here on the forums, the DSP website (links above) and the Paizo forums.

    -Want to playtest the material, but don't know who to play with? Elricaltovilla is doing a playtest recruitment right here on the forums!

    -There is support for multiple weapon configurations and playstyles:

    Primal Fury - Primarily two-handed weapons, heavy damage
    Golden Lion - Buffing, tactical movement, pack tactics
    Scarlet Throne - Einhander, high personal mobility
    Solar Wind - Supernatural light/fire themed ranged
    Thrashing Dragon - Two-weapon fighting
    Steel Serpent - Unarmed/monk/thrown weapons
    Veiled Moon - Mystic, high-mobility, illusions
    Broken Blade - Unarmed, close, and monk weapons
    Iron Tortoise Palisade(name possibly TBD) - Shield, defenses, "tanking"
    Piercing Lance - Mounted combat

    A list of possible disciplines in development has also been dropped:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Unbroken Army - defensive tactics
    Descending Gale - non-supernatural ranged
    Smoking Tempest - because somebody wants to make a gunslinger martial disciple, admit it.
    Black Seraph - Evil.
    Argent Light - Good.
    Fractured Eye - Chaos.
    Judicial Hammer - Law.


    -There is currently not a Kickstarter planned for the Path of War, though of course that could change.

    -Dreamscarred Press is also making an Incarnum port, currently envisioned as the "Flowshaper." The alpha can be found here.

    -Those interested in pact magic should check out Radiance House's Pact Magic Unbound on the PFSRD. The Occultist can be found here.
    Last edited by Novawurmson; 2013-10-15 at 02:41 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTrees View Post
    Knowledge (local) being trained only, and not a class skill for many classes, means that your average human may well not be able to identify other humans! This may explain the exceptional quantity of half-human hybrids.

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    Really, really interested in this, I hope they do the conversion (for lack of a better term) as awesome as they did with psionics, heck if it good I might even convert to PF.
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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    Now these are terrific news! I just wonder how they will do it, since ToB isn't OGL.
    Metal Perfection - a template for creatures born on Mirrodin.
    True Ferocity - a simple fix for Orcs and Half-Orcs.
    Monastic Magus - a spiritual successor to the Unarmed Swordsage.
    Pathfinder-ish Synthesist - a simple fix making Synthesist Summoners follow polymorph rules.
    Sword & Sorcery for Sneaky Scoundrels - rogue archetypes/fixes that aim to turn the rogue into a warrior/caster.

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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    Pact Magic wasn't OGL and I recall there is a 3rd party that is essentially the same with some minor changes, from the top of my head they increased the maximum vestige level (which also were called something else). My best guess it will be something similar and they won't be called maneuvers.
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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    Very, very nice. Maybe now we'll have a good archery style.

    So long, WotC! *waves*

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    Pact Magic wasn't OGL and I recall there is a 3rd party that is essentially the same with some minor changes, from the top of my head they increased the maximum vestige level (which also were called something else). My best guess it will be something similar and they won't be called maneuvers.
    Radiance House did the Binder conversion, and it is glorious. They even got away with calling it Pact Magic. So calling these "maneuvers" could still work, both are pretty generic terms.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    Even more awesome, I was having hard time figuring out terms that worked as well as "strike, counter, stance" did.
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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    Hey guys!

    Glad to see the announcement's spread over to my home away from home already! If any of you have been a fan of my Libram of Battle project that I carried out here and on my old site, SorcererStudios.com, that's what's being worked on by myself and the great staff at Dreamscarred Press as the Path of War. When the playtest data is released, I'll need everyone who's interested in it to give it a whirl and let us know what you think! Thanks in advance!

    -X
    Last edited by ErrantX; 2013-08-08 at 03:31 PM.
    Chris Bennett
    Author and Lead Developer of Path of War
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    My credits:
    Path of War and Path of War Expanded: An OGL Tome of Battle for the Pathfinder game system, for Dreamscarred Press.
    Psionics Augmented: Psychic Warrior and Psionics Augmented: Soulknife for Dreamscarred Press.

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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    I can't wait to try this out. DSP really put together some quality work with their Psionics stuff.

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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    Hey guys!

    Glad to see the announcement's spread over to my home away from home already! If any of you have been a fan of my Libram of Battle project that I carried out here and on my old site, SorcererStudios.com, that's what's being worked on by myself and the great staff at Dreamscarred Press as the Path of War. When the playtest data is released, I'll need everyone who's interested in it to give it a whirl and let us know what you think! Thanks in advance!

    -X
    Oh man, it's you working on it?

    With Jeremy?

    Sold.

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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    I just hope that we finally get the comprehensive ToB for all purposes martial. If that happens there's very little 3.5 I need; between Psionics Unleashed, Core and Pact Magic most of the other stuff I care about from 3.5 is already there.
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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    Plus, remember DSP is working on a meldshaper update/conversion, too. The alpha is great, if if production is paused for at least a month.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTrees View Post
    Knowledge (local) being trained only, and not a class skill for many classes, means that your average human may well not be able to identify other humans! This may explain the exceptional quantity of half-human hybrids.

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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    Originally Posted by Psyren
    So long, WotC! *waves*
    This, for many reasons. Not sure I'll wave, though.


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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    I'm really excited about this. DSP can give the book the care it deserves! Now I just wish DSP would make an Unearthed Arcana type of book to show us their vision (or even their version!) of what Pathfinder can be!
    Metal Perfection - a template for creatures born on Mirrodin.
    True Ferocity - a simple fix for Orcs and Half-Orcs.
    Monastic Magus - a spiritual successor to the Unarmed Swordsage.
    Pathfinder-ish Synthesist - a simple fix making Synthesist Summoners follow polymorph rules.
    Sword & Sorcery for Sneaky Scoundrels - rogue archetypes/fixes that aim to turn the rogue into a warrior/caster.

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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Very, very nice. Maybe now we'll have a good archery style.

    So long, WotC! *waves*



    Radiance House did the Binder conversion, and it is glorious. They even got away with calling it Pact Magic. So calling these "maneuvers" could still work, both are pretty generic terms.
    Yep, holding on to WotC is becoming less and less attractive

    Even if there isn't an archery discipline, I'd expect them to add one in a later supplement (since unlike WotC, DSP actually builds on previous developments). Or for that matter, once it is OGL, any other publisher could make an archery-style discipline, or disciplines to fill other (smaller) gaps.

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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    ToB supplements? GIGGITY!!!

    Can we haz psionic/maneuver dual progression class?
    Last edited by Renen; 2013-08-08 at 03:53 PM.

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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    Oh man, it's you working on it?

    With Jeremy?

    Sold.
    Yep, it's me! And with that kind of a response from Fax, I better step up my game! Super appreciate it! Though, I'm not sure where Jeremy is going to be fitting in on this, I'm sure his expertise will be vital in making this work in the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    I just hope that we finally get the comprehensive ToB for all purposes martial. If that happens there's very little 3.5 I need; between Psionics Unleashed, Core and Pact Magic most of the other stuff I care about from 3.5 is already there.
    You let me know what you want to see and if I can make it happen for a comprehensive lineup, I'll see what we can do. I'm getting the first playtest bundle together today and definitely give it a look when it is released. If this product takes off, there will be further support down the line, instead the one book and done approach that WotC took to it.

    -X
    Chris Bennett
    Author and Lead Developer of Path of War
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    My credits:
    Path of War and Path of War Expanded: An OGL Tome of Battle for the Pathfinder game system, for Dreamscarred Press.
    Psionics Augmented: Psychic Warrior and Psionics Augmented: Soulknife for Dreamscarred Press.

    My extended homebrew signature!

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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    Yep, it's me! And with that kind of a response from Fax, I better step up my game! Super appreciate it! Though, I'm not sure where Jeremy is going to be fitting in on this, I'm sure his expertise will be vital in making this work in the end.
    I have given some serious consideration to working with DSP before, but the demands on my personal time (ie: toddler, baby on the way, full-time job, possibly a second job too in a little bit) just aren't conducive to that sort of relationship.

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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    I'd really like to see more effort put into the "unarmed swordsage" than a one off line about giving them monk unarmed damage progression and WIS to AC.

    A new dedicated unarmed class would be great!

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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    Hey guys!

    Glad to see the announcement's spread over to my home away from home already! If any of you have been a fan of my Libram of Battle project that I carried out here and on my old site, SorcererStudios.com, that's what's being worked on by myself and the great staff at Dreamscarred Press as the Path of War. When the playtest data is released, I'll need everyone who's interested in it to give it a whirl and let us know what you think! Thanks in advance!

    -X
    Quote Originally Posted by Novawurmson View Post
    Plus, remember DSP is working on a meldshaper update/conversion, too. The alpha is great, if if production is paused for at least a month.
    So...what you're saying is...it's my birthday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    This, for many reasons. Not sure I'll wave, though.

    I still can't believe they just dumped 3.5, and then when PF came out, they tried to get back in with a reprint that "included the errata" (it didn't include the errata in at least one book).

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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    I have given some serious consideration to working with DSP before, but the demands on my personal time (ie: toddler, baby on the way, full-time job, possibly a second job too in a little bit) just aren't conducive to that sort of relationship.
    I feel you. I have a lot of draws on my time these days too (full time job, toddler, wife) but I saw this as my chance to really just get something out there and leave my mark, however small. I respect your decision though, lots to do with that kind of stuff going on. Maybe if situation allows it in the future, it would be a great thrill to work with you on something, especially if it's with DSP!

    Quote Originally Posted by Elricaltovilla View Post
    I'd really like to see more effort put into the "unarmed swordsage" than a one off line about giving them monk unarmed damage progression and WIS to AC.

    A new dedicated unarmed class would be great!
    Well as I obviously can't leak info, I will say this. Unarmed is not going to be forgotten, and there will be plenty to support it.

    -X
    Chris Bennett
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    My credits:
    Path of War and Path of War Expanded: An OGL Tome of Battle for the Pathfinder game system, for Dreamscarred Press.
    Psionics Augmented: Psychic Warrior and Psionics Augmented: Soulknife for Dreamscarred Press.

    My extended homebrew signature!

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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    Well as I obviously can't leak info, I will say this. Unarmed is not going to be forgotten, and there will be plenty to support it.

    -X
    I was wrong before. Now it's my birthday.

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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    This, for many reasons. Not sure I'll wave, though.

    Hey, it still counts as waving even if you don't use all your fingers.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    As someone who is currently playing a swordsage in a Pathfidner PbP, this excites me greatly. I can't wait to see how they convert it, and hope they add some new adepts or styles to help the other combat styles (*cough* archery *cough*) in the game.

    This might be the first time I'll actually have to swear by third party material as necessary for my RPG. Hell, the biggest problem with ToB in my eyes is the awful editing/errata that happened to that book. Fixing that alone will make it fun for me to ask to use at a table.
    Last edited by Squirrel_Dude; 2013-08-08 at 04:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrel_Dude View Post
    As someone who is currently playing a swordsage in a Pathfidner PbP, this excites me greatly. I can't wait to see how they convert it, and hope they add some new adepts or styles to help the other combat styles (*cough* archery *cough*) in the game.
    Archery, throwing weapons, unarmed combat, and more will get love. I'm with you; I felt like a jilted lover after a one night stand when it came to the Tome of Battle, so much promise, and then they changed and became a totally new edition. I'm approaching this with an eye to address those points that were overlooked.

    -X
    Chris Bennett
    Author and Lead Developer of Path of War
    Freelancer

    My credits:
    Path of War and Path of War Expanded: An OGL Tome of Battle for the Pathfinder game system, for Dreamscarred Press.
    Psionics Augmented: Psychic Warrior and Psionics Augmented: Soulknife for Dreamscarred Press.

    My extended homebrew signature!

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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    Archery, throwing weapons, unarmed combat, and more will get love. I'm with you; I felt like a jilted lover after a one night stand when it came to the Tome of Battle, so much promise, and then they changed and became a totally new edition. I'm approaching this with an eye to address those points that were overlooked.

    -X
    Oh, I get it. You're courting me. The answer is already yes.

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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    Yes. Yes. I'm sold. Cannot wait.

    Oh, will my players hate me...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    You let me know what you want to see and if I can make it happen for a comprehensive lineup, I'll see what we can do. I'm getting the first playtest bundle together today and definitely give it a look when it is released. If this product takes off, there will be further support down the line, instead the one book and done approach that WotC took to it.
    Wall of text:
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    Support for ranged combat (beyond Dancing Mongoose, Raging Mongoose, Time Stands Still), both archery and thrown. Perhaps for both, mobile (skirmishing) archers and volley/artillery styles. Ranged weapons could have their own schools or most maneuvers could be usable with ranged weapons or whatever, there are certainly many options available on how to implement it but the lack of proper ranged martial adepts was the biggest "FU" ranged combat got during the whole 3.5.

    I think the use of only melee weapons should be an exception, not a rule, but Warblade and Swordsage don't agree with me. Ironically, the only class with ranged weapon proficiencies from the book doesn't get either of the schools with maneuvers that work with ranged weapons. Other neglected combat styles like grappling (seriously, this system is the only way to do grappling right in D&D), unarmed combat & one-handed (fencing) combat would also warrant some love.


    Other than that, Shadow Hand was a bit too magickey to me. Sure, Assassin is a caster class from core so I sorta understand it, and there's room for the master of shadows-type of magical school. However assassination itself can be done in a completely mundane manner, and ToB completely misses this great opportunity to get mundane assassination right (forgive me if I don't consider Rogue's "hide and sneak attack" the be-all end-all of gameplay), providing only couple of mundane assassination stances. You could have maneuvers requiring certain conditions (e.g. flat-footed target) to either debilitate or straight-out kill them (save-or-die or stat damage or whatever), various ways to disappear more easily (temporary Hide in Plain Sight if you will) and so on. Using Poison could be or not be implemented into such school depending on your preference, of course.

    Then, it would be optimal if mounted combat was somehow covered. Normal ToB works with mounted combat to a degree but there are some weird things with rules (like can you perform the Charge-maneuvers as mounted charges while mounted? How does giving your mount extra actions via. WRT work if they normally function on your initiative when you guide 'em?) because the word "mount" appears once in the book, and that stands for a "mountain". In other words, because the rules simply don't cover it.


    Oh, and couple of general things:

    - It would be great to have a bit healthier number of maneuvers known, and perhaps few more readied ones. Knowing a bunch more maneuvers doesn't really increase Martial Adept power overtly much (maneuvers readied does more to that effect) but it does allow you to vary your style a bit more day-in day-out. In other words, having more maneuvers known keeps it more interesting for the martial adepts. This is doubly true if we're looking at more maneuvers than currently; the current setup is already barely sufficient for the number of schools they currently get.

    - Having some sort of adaptation section (or all-out) to cover integration options for the system could also be an interesting option (that is, a strictly optional set of rules to integrate the ToB-style combat to the core of the system). PHB warrior types could get initiator level or have the option of being replaced with maneuver-using classes, half-warriors (Clerics & al.) could get a stunted maneuver progression in some schools to show they learn some combat skill but not on-par with real warriors (much like Rangers & co. get stunted casting), etc.

    - Anti-casters maneuvers like Iron Heart Surge and Wall of Blades (used against Rays) could afford to be a bit more common. After all, in this world the martial adepts fight not only other warriors but also casters so it would stand to reason they develop techniques to that end also.

    - More boosts in general. Currently they're a bit underpresented missing out on some of the potential the system has to "combo" maneuvers with each other for interesting results. Boosts as they stand already sort of function as "meta-maneuvers" but most of them don't actually work that well with strikes (ones that apply on each hit go better with full attacks) or they're just plain boring. There's definitely some room here for an interesting combo system of sorts, but I'd find it preferable if the focus was on standard action, move action & boost system (to keep warriors mobile). More counters are always also welcome; they make battle more dynamic (and thus interesting).

    - In general, focus on stuff other than +xd6 damage. Sure, few maneuvers that just do a ton of d6s can be fun but it'd be really boring if the whole book was just a bunch of ways to do extra d6s. That's just not the most interesting addition and it doesn't really tie to your attacks, base damage, combat style or anything. It's just a boring bonus and it sorta makes the weapon itself irrelevant. It also frightens new people and in general, I think "toss a bunch of d6s" should be reserved for those damage spells, where it's the only thing they do (I don't like Sneak Attack as a mechanic either mostly 'cause it just adds up to "throw a bunch of d6s as your damage, nothing else really matters"). Doing 1d8+15+5d6 is just sorta clumsy especially since your weapon special abilities are probably already doing this.

    - Consistency with regards to scaling. ToB has the system in place for scaling but only few maneuvers actually scale meaningfully. I feel it shouldn't be as half-hearted; either integrate initiator level scaling properly into the system so that it matters for more maneuvers (hell, maybe you get good enough to use two boosts with one swift action or whatever) or remove its effect on maneuvers entirely. It'd still be a good way to limit which maneuvers you can learn even if nothing scaled by it, but e.g. Leading the Charge [White Raven] is a really weird Stance and kinda out of place in a system that doesn't really scale otherwise.

    - Master of One in some way, shape or form. These multitalent adepts are all cool but it'd be really nice to have some class that's the utmost master of a single discipline and learns nothing else. Maybe as a PRC or something. This'd finally give you the tools to be that fencing master or jiujitsu master or the utmost master of whatever each discipline embodies.

    Sorry it's long. Of course, that's just a wishlist. ToB itself was already wonderful so doesn't matter if none of that happens; getting ToB for PF and hopefully some chance to use it officially would be more than good enough. It just seems to me this is an opportunity to improve upon it and make it even better and feel more integrated into the whole.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    Archery, throwing weapons, unarmed combat, and more will get love. I'm with you; I felt like a jilted lover after a one night stand when it came to the Tome of Battle, so much promise, and then they changed and became a totally new edition. I'm approaching this with an eye to address those points that were overlooked.

    -X
    Okay. You've already mentioned many of the things I did. I'm guessing this'll be awesome.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2013-08-08 at 04:37 PM.
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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Wall of text:
    *snip*

    Okay. You've already mentioned many of the things I did. I'm guessing this'll be awesome.
    A lot of your ideas are things I've definitely thought of, and I'm going to take that wall of text and other suggestions people have and copy it into a sort of a Wish List file from the fans of the system. I know I can't please everyone, but I will take this stuff to heart. Thank you for all of that! That helps sooooo much!

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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    More utility and things that are applicable outside of combat, please. I was discussing starting a community rewrite of ToB in the homebrew forums that sadly collapsed pretty soon, but that was one thing we wanted. Especially a lot more stances and more stances that do things like help in travelling and exploration of dangerous terrains of various kinds or provide other boni that aren't directly related to killing things. ToB has a few: scent, short-range teleportation, moving over water and air, fire resistance... all nice, but I wish there were more.
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    Default Re: [PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

    On stances and maneuvers:

    - If you're going to increase stances and manuevers, then either characters should get more to use, or they should get bonuses for specializing in a specific style.

    - I would recommend maybe trying to decrease the amount of manuevers known prereqs. I actually like that in theory, but it makes it really hard to properly build a high level adept. Aka: "5 maneuvers of X style known? Could I have actually fit those in and learned everything else... time to go back and check. *40 minutes later* I still have no idea..."

    Personally, I'm okay with them not having too many utility maneuvers/stances. Having some is obviously a necessity, but I would prefer if the styles of combat you studied focused on making you stronger in combat. I don't know, I guess I don't want the system to become too similar to magic is all.
    Last edited by Squirrel_Dude; 2013-08-08 at 04:50 PM.

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