[PF/DSP] Dreamscarred Press announces ToB-inspired product

[ErrantX]

Expense is often a major concern. It's a real barrier for me, especially when Pathfinder books are $39.99 or $49.99 apiece.

Alas, the only concern I cannot address. All I can really do is link you to a wonderful opinion piece that Sean K. Reynolds wrote regarding that.

It's around the price of a video game but keep in mind this: INFINITE REPLAY VALUE.

Otherwise, PDF's are always a cost efficient manner of getting new books.

-X

[Larkas]

The lack of concentration is little pet peeve of mine, if they want to deal with casters auto-passing the defensive casting check they should have changed the way the DC worked, not removing the skill entirely.

Oh, I have my issues with PF's skill system too. Specifically, I group them completely differently in my games, and do away with Fly. But that's relatively minor too.

[Big Fau]

Likely nothing official, but the adaptation wouldn't take a whole lot of work. DSP is pretty solid on the Pathfinder bandwagon as far as development of new products.

-X

And at others who replied about my comment: I asked specifically because I'd like there to be an official sidebar within the book/PDF about it, that way my players would be able to learn how to convert it themselves instead of me having to explain it; they are very new to RPGs and not too familiar with PF due in no small part to my vehement opinion of Paizo.

Oh well. I know the conversion is fairly simple, I just kinda wish there were a small blurb in DSP's publications about converting things back.

[Larkas]

And at others who replied about my comment: I asked specifically because I'd like there to be an official sidebar within the book/PDF about it, that way my players would be able to learn how to convert it themselves instead of me having to explain it; they are very new to RPGs and not too familiar with PF due in no small part to my vehement opinion of Paizo.

Oh well. I know the conversion is fairly simple, I just kinda wish there were a small blurb in DSP's publications about converting things back.

Hmmm, gotcha. Well, you might be able to set up a document for them teaching how to do it!

[avr]

Alas, the only concern I cannot address. All I can really do is link you to a wonderful opinion piece that Sean K. Reynolds wrote regarding that.

It's around the price of a video game but keep in mind this: INFINITE REPLAY VALUE.

Otherwise, PDF's are always a cost efficient manner of getting new books.

-X

The math in Sean's rant rather misses out the Amazon effect - these days just about no one buys from retailers who buy from distributors who buy from the game company.

I'll certainly look into this product when it comes out anyway.

[ErrantX]

The math in Sean's rant rather misses out the Amazon effect - these days just about no one buys from retailers who buy from distributors who buy from the game company.

I'll certainly look into this product when it comes out anyway.

Don't get me started on Amazon, that company is wrought nothing but true evil to the publishing industry.

-X

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by ErrantX
It's around the price of a video game but keep in mind this: INFINITE REPLAY VALUE.

I really can't remember the last time I bought a video game. Might have been 2002.

And alas, for a species with our design limitations, "infinite" is a little optimistic. "Frequent" is probably more accurate.

</editor>

[Squirrel_Dude]

Also keep in mind that most Paizo books are easily available online, not just as .pdfs, but on Paizo's own online reference document. The biggest piece of information missing online is probably the lack of specific deities for clerics/inquisitors to reference for their domains, but those can be found at other locations.

I also highly recommend that you check out .pdfs. The books pdfs are a great value. The minor golarion setting stuff and the adventure paths are admittedly less so.

[Psyren]

Is it easier? I'm not sure what's easier about converting backwards than converting from 3.5 to PF
Eh, doesn't really matter, conversion either direction between 3.5 and PF is really easy. Heck, for a lot of people it is easier than converting between 3.5 and 3.5-with-your-house-rules.

In addition to what Larkas said, you also don't need to worry about CMB/CMD. Just drop the two terms entirely and rely on Str and Dex checks as 3.5 usually does.

Oh well. I know the conversion is fairly simple, I just kinda wish there were a small blurb in DSP's publications about converting things back.

I don't. Printed real estate is very valuable; every sidebar counts.. Since WotC isn't supporting 3.5 anymore, nobody else should waste their time doing so either (at least not in rulebooks), particularly in the service of a near decade-old grudge.

[Big Fau]

particularly in the service of a near decade-old grudge.

What can I say other than I don't forgive easily?

[137beth]

What can I say other than I don't forgive easily?

I'm curious, as I didn't read most of their stuff from Dungeon/Dragon magazines:
what is this grudge about?

[Big Fau]

I'm curious, as I didn't read most of their stuff from Dungeon/Dragon magazines:
what is this grudge about?

I posted a critique during the Pathfinder Open Beta on Paizo's forums and ended up with a deleted post, an IP ban, and a grudge that I've been holding for years. I had a low opinion of Paizo for their Dragon Magazine content being so wildly unbalanced, but that banning put me firmly in the "Hater" category.

Edit: Several of my associates did a similar critique, and most of them were ignored. The ones who weren't were the ones who were openly flaming and trolling, and even then their advice wasn't acknowledged.

[Psyren]

What can I say other than I don't forgive easily?

You're free to do so or not do so as you see fit, but it's not much of a reason to waste space in the book on backwards compatibility to a system that has all but abandoned its players.

Heck, such an attempt may even be dangerous; every reference to the original Bo9S, however oblique, has the potential of attracting unwanted attention from the spooky wizard who lives by the coast. DSP being forced to defend their conversion in court, no matter how it turns out, would be a loss for everyone involved.

[ErrantX]

You're free to do so or not do so as you see fit, but it's not much of a reason to waste space in the book on backwards compatibility to a system that has all but abandoned its players.

Heck, such an attempt may even be dangerous; every reference to the original Bo9S, however oblique, has the potential of attracting unwanted attention from the spooky wizard who lives by the coast. DSP being forced to defend their conversion in court, no matter how it turns out, would be a loss for everyone involved.

This exactly.

That being said, when it's all said and done and it launches, hit me up and I'll personally release an unofficial conversion if you still need one.

-X

[molten_dragon]

Alas, the only concern I cannot address. All I can really do is link you to a wonderful opinion piece that Sean K. Reynolds wrote regarding that.

It's around the price of a video game but keep in mind this: INFINITE REPLAY VALUE.

Otherwise, PDF's are always a cost efficient manner of getting new books.

-X

It's not that the books are too expensive (for me at least). I can afford them. It's just that I've already spent several hundred dollars over the years on 3.5 books, so it's hard for me to justify spending another several hundred dollars on Pathfinder books, when I like the two games for the exact same reasons.

And the infinite replay value of a system only counts if you keep playing that system.

I suspect that if Paizo wants to keep making money over time, they're eventually going to have to do what WotC did and come out with a Pathfinder V2.0.

[Tehnar]

What I would like to see:

• multiclass support: dips into martial classes should be worthwhile. Currently, in pathfinder dipping is usually not worth it.
  
• martial maneuvers for everyone: access to a limited amount of maneuvers for pure classes through feats/paths

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by molten_dragon
...I've already spent several hundred dollars over the years on 3.5 books, so it's hard for me to justify spending another several hundred dollars on Pathfinder books.

Sadly, some of us really can't afford several hundred dollars for a complete set of new books.

I do see the logic, from the writers' and designers' perspective...but even so, sometimes the personal math just don't add up.

[Fax Celestis]

In my experience, DSP tends to do a side-by-side release of a paperback for around $25 and a PDF for like $5.

[Psyren]

All the Pathfinder rules - even the third party stuff - is available online legally and totally free of charge. If you can't afford the books or even the much cheaper PDFs, stick with the SRD and you won't have to pay a dime. You can even print it out.

There is often a delay between the product's release and getting posted to the SRD, but avoiding that is one of the perks of paying to play.


@ Errant: Can you let us know when pre-orders open up?

[Hunter Noventa]

Archery, throwing weapons, unarmed combat, and more will get love. I'm with you; I felt like a jilted lover after a one night stand when it came to the Tome of Battle, so much promise, and then they changed and became a totally new edition. I'm approaching this with an eye to address those points that were overlooked.

-X

I've already had more fun playing your Soulknife Gestalted with a Swordsage than should be allowed, and now you're doing this?

It is truly a thing of beauty to hear about, and I look forward to getting my grubby mitts on it.

[Fax Celestis]

@ Errant: Can you let us know when pre-orders open up?

...and if you're going to do a preorder playtest like they did with PsiEx and PsiUn?

[Dusk Eclipse]

I will definitely shell out for a pre-order if it includes a playtest

[Turion]

I will definitely shell out for a pre-order if it includes a playtest

Same here, absolutely.

[Psyren]

And maybe see if WR is still available for cover art?

[OverdrivePrime]

I'm super excited for this, and am looking forward to implementing the results in my game. /Subscribed!

[Werephilosopher]

I can't wait for ranged-focused styles. Hopefully there will be support for sword-and-shield fighters too, they could use a bit of love.

I must say, I've been faithful to 3.5 since I started playing, but this could very well convert me to Pathfinder permanently.

[Gorfnod]

@ErrantX

I would absolutely love to see “Disciplines”, or whatever you guys decide to call them, based on all four of the classic elements. Desert Wind as a decent fire theme discipline and Stone Dragon had some earth feel to it but I would have loved to have all of the elementals on a single character.

[ErrantX]

What I would like to see:

• multiclass support: dips into martial classes should be worthwhile. Currently, in pathfinder dipping is usually not worth it.
  
• martial maneuvers for everyone: access to a limited amount of maneuvers for pure classes through feats/paths

I'll try not to let you down here as far maneuvers for everyone, I have plenty of ideas for that, but at least in my opinion, dipping is kind of the bane of my existence in some regards. If you want to cherry pick from the first level or two of a class, you'll get something that's pretty decent, but the good stuff usually doesn't come until later.

In my experience, DSP tends to do a side-by-side release of a paperback for around $25 and a PDF for like $5.

True story!

All the Pathfinder rules - even the third party stuff - is available online legally and totally free of charge. If you can't afford the books or even the much cheaper PDFs, stick with the SRD and you won't have to pay a dime. You can even print it out.

There is often a delay between the product's release and getting posted to the SRD, but avoiding that is one of the perks of paying to play.


@ Errant: Can you let us know when pre-orders open up?

I'll make sure to, I've got this thread bookmarked so I'll update the Playground with information here.

I've already had more fun playing your Soulknife Gestalted with a Swordsage than should be allowed, and now you're doing this?

It is truly a thing of beauty to hear about, and I look forward to getting my grubby mitts on it.

That's awesome! Is it the Soulknife I posted on SorcererStudios.com or is the Spellblade that I wrote a while back? Either way, that's super cool! As DSP is totally in love with psionics (and rightly so!), you're likely to see a lot of psionics support from the Path of War.

...and if you're going to do a preorder playtest like they did with PsiEx and PsiUn?

I think it's going to be an open source playtest initially, not sure about after that though. Keep an eye out on the DPS forums!

And maybe see if WR is still available for cover art?

Oh god I'd love that! Yes please!

If this does well enough, it might get a kickstarter for it to go the same route as Ultimate Psionics, just requires the fans and supporters to want it bad enough. The more you guys love it, the more that Jeremy and Andreas will likely be willing to green light. I'm amateur-going-pro (if I'm lucky!) and so I'll definitely need fan support to make this happen.

I can't wait for ranged-focused styles. Hopefully there will be support for sword-and-shield fighters too, they could use a bit of love.

I must say, I've been faithful to 3.5 since I started playing, but this could very well convert me to Pathfinder permanently.

There's a lot of ground to cover, and I think you're going to find I have support for a lot of different methods of combat in this.

@ErrantX

I would absolutely love to see “Disciplines”, or whatever you guys decide to call them, based on all four of the classic elements. Desert Wind as a decent fire theme discipline and Stone Dragon had some earth feel to it but I would have loved to have all of the elementals on a single character.

While I can't divulge secrets or anything, I will say this is something I want to see as well, and I have ideas for this as well. Hopefully I'll be given a chance to implement them!

To everyone, you guys are so awesome! Thank you!

-X

[StreamOfTheSky]

So, is this going to be "inspired by" ToB in the same way many movies are "inspired by" or "based on" actual events?

[ErrantX]

So, is this going to be "inspired by" ToB in the same way many movies are "inspired by" or "based on" actual events?

Something like that!

-X