Epic manouvers

[Lightlawbliss]

My DM and I have been discussing epic level maneuvers recently. What "seeds" does the playground think would be a good idea (I'm talking make the seed not just point at one of the magic ones)?

also, what alterations does the playground think would need to be made to the epic level spell dc alteration tables to make a epic level manouver dc alteration table that is balanced.

[Amechra]

Well, there have been a few Epic disciplines that people have made...

Celestial Impetus
Devouring Crypt
Invincible Sword Princess
March of Aeons
Nine-Petaled Lotus
Primeval God-Monster
Seven-Forged Sword

[playswithfire]

Don't know how useful this is; I never fully fleshed it out, but, if you want to go the seed route rather than epic disciplines, the seed list I came up with was:

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Champion [Devoted Spirit]
Prerequisites: 5 Devoted Spirit maneuvers; the True Believer feat may be used in place of two maneuvers and any one divine feat may be used in place of three maneuvers

Charge! [White Raven or Stone Dragon]
Prerequisites: 3 White Raven maneuvers, 3 Stone Dragon maneuvers; the Shock Trooper feat may be used in place of two maneuvers from each discipline

Earth [Stone Dragon]
Prerequisites: 5 Stone Dragon maneuvers

Fire [Desert Wind]
Prerequisites: 5 Desert Wind maneuvers

Healing [Devoted Spirit]
Prerequisites: 5 Devoted Spirit maneuvers; the Vital Recovery feat may be used in place of two maneuvers

Inflict [Shadow Hand]
Prerequisites: 5 Shadow Hand maneuvers; the Stunning Fist may be used in place of three maneuvers

Intuition [Diamond Mind or Setting Sun]
Prerequisites: 3 Diamond Mind maneuvers, 3 Setting Sun maneuvers; the Combat Expertise feat may be used in place of one maneuver from each discipline

Leverage [Setting Sun]
Prerequisites: 5 Setting Sun maneuvers; the Improved Trip feat may be used in place of three maneuvers

Leap [Tiger Claw]
Prerequisites: 5 Tiger Claw maneuvers; the Leap Attack feat may be used in place of three maneuvers

Mentality/Mind over Matter? [Diamond Mind]
Prerequisites: 5 Diamond Mind maneuvers; any psionic feat may be used in place of two maneuvers

Primal [Tiger Claw]
Prerequisites: 5 Tiger Claw maneuvers; the Power Attack feat may be used in place of two maneuvers

Redirect [Setting Sun]
Prerequisites: 5 Setting Sun maneuvers; the Deflect Arrows feat may be used in place of three maneuvers

Resist [Iron Heart or Diamond Mind
Prerequisites: 3 Iron Heart maneuvers, 3 Diamond Mind maneuvers; the Great Fortitude, Iron Will, and Lightning Reflexes feats may each be used in place of one maneuver from each discipline

Space [Shadow Hand or Desert Wind]
Prerequisites: 3 Shadow Hand maneuvers, 3 Desert Wind maneuvers

Speed [Desert Wind or Tiger Claw]
Prerequisites: 3 Desert Wind maneuvers, 3 Tiger Claw maneuvers; the Improved Initiative and Run feats may each be used in place of one maneuver from each discipline

Surprise [Shadow Hand]
Prerequisites: 5 Shadow Hand maneuvers; each d6 of sneak attack or sudden strike damage you have from class features reduces the number needed by one

Sweep [Iron Heart]
Prerequisites: 5 Iron Heart maneuvers; the Cleave feat may be used in place of two maneuvers

Tactics [Iron Heart or White Raven]
Prerequisites: 3 Iron Heart maneuvers, 3 White Raven maneuvers; the Combat Reflexes may be used in place of one maneuver from each discipline

Teamwork [White Raven]
Prerequisites: 5 White Raven maneuvers; the Leadership feat may be used in place of two maneuvers and Song of the White Raven OR any one bardic music feat may be used in place of three maneuvers

Toughness [Stone Dragon or Devoted Spirit]
Prerequisites: 3 Stone Dragon maneuvers, 3 Devoted Spirit maneuvers; the Toughness and Endurance feats may each be used in place of one maneuver from each discipline

I never quite worked out what all they would do, though the names are somewhat descriptive and I had a few ideas. The idea (again, to the extent I'd fleshed it out) was:
1. Pick a number of seeds that you meet the prerequisites for
2. Pick what discipline you want the resulting epic maneuver to be from
3 The required initiator level for the maneuver is 18 + the number of seeds used from that discipline + 2 * the number of seeds from other disciplines
4. There probably needs to be some kind of martial lore check too, but I never got that far.

Two related examples:

Cleansing Fire [Devoted Spirit]
Fire + Champion + Healing + Champion
Required initiator level: 23 (18 + 3 devoted spirit seeds + 1 desert wind seed)
Create a 60 foot cone of fire that deals 12d6+your initiator level damage to Evil creatures and heals half that many HP to Good creatures. Neutral creatures are unaffected
(The same maneuver could be a Desert Wind maneuver, but with a required initiator level of 25).

Hand of Justice [Devoted Spirit]
Fire + Champion
Required Initiator Level: 21 (18 + 1 devoted spirit seed + 1 desert wind seed)
Touch attack deals 11d6 + your initiator level to Chaotic creatures and half that to creatures that are neutral with respect to Law and Chaos. Lawful creatures are unaffected.
(The same manuever could be Desert Wind, this time with the same required initiator level).

Don't know if that helps, but it's my two cents.