Why must magic be arcane?

[Mastikator]

Arcane means old, that's all it means. Arcane magic simply means old magic, so you can't invent or discover arcane magic, only rediscover. If you did it'd be new magic.

Is it because of D&D's two types of magic, old and divine?

Besides "old", what does arcane magic really mean to you?

[Mikal]

Arcane means old, that's all it means. Arcane magic simply means old magic, so you can't invent or discover arcane magic, only rediscover. If you did it'd be new magic.

Is it because of D&D's two types of magic, old and divine?

Besides "old", what does arcane magic really mean to you?

Ummm... Arcane doesn't mean old.

Definition of ARCANE

: known or knowable only to the initiate : secret <arcane rites>; broadly : mysterious, obscure <arcane explanations>

There ya go. First definition right there.

[Scots Dragon]

Actual dictionary meaning of arcane;

arcane — adj
requiring secret knowledge to be understood; mysterious; esoteric

Which describes magic perfectly, really.

[SiuiS]

Where do you get arcane meaning old from? I know it means overly complex, seemingly archaic as a process, but that's an entirely different thing than old.

Arcane magic is arcane because it is supposedly based on formulae and thought forms which are arcane in the complexity sense. But it's gone on so long that arcane is now derived from magic, rather than being its own thing; arcane means mystic. The definition I have at my fingers literally says understood by few; mysterious or secret. It then goes on to list arcere as the etymological root, to keep secret, 'to shut up'.

[Asheram]

Where do you get arcane meaning old from? I know it means overly complex, seemingly archaic as a process, but that's an entirely different thing than old.

I think you've got the answer right there. Might simply be mistaking Arcane for Archaic.

[Mastikator]

Oh, then I guess it makes sense that magic, old and new is arcane.

[TheCountAlucard]

Eeyup. Arcane magic is indeed secretive by nature just by dint of the fact that you either need to dedicate decades of study to it, or have magic literally in your blood.

Of course, that's a very D&D-specific viewpoint - many other RPGs handle magic very differently.

[Mewtarthio]

Of course, the real reason that wizardly magic is considered "arcane" (aka "secret") is that actual wizards are crazy hard to find in the real world, so they must be hiding really well.

[Kid Jake]

Of course, the real reason that wizardly magic is considered "arcane" (aka "secret") is that actual wizards are crazy hard to find in the real world, so they must be hiding really well.

Everyone knows wizards are extinct. We hunted the last one down decades ago, believing that their pointy hats could cure baldness.

[SiuiS]

Everyone knows wizards are extinct. We hunted the last one down decades ago, believing that their pointy hats could cure baldness.

Yes. Extinct. That's what weThey are.

<_<

>_>

[ShadowFighter15]

Only word meaning 'old' that sounds like arcane is 'archaic'. At least that's the only one I can think of.

[Kiren]

Arcane pretty much means it can only be used by those who have been initiated into it; in DnD this initiation would be from intense study of it's intricacies and usage or initiation from bloodline connections.

The title of Arcane just signifies how these spells come into being. Divine magic is granted to a worshiper, there is no initiation which allows the caster to perform divine magic on their own.

It's trickier when you think of clerics who worship an idea or concept. That can be written off as belief granting a concept the power which in turn allows it to grant spells. That or it should be considered a related, but different subgroup altogether.

[Kid Jake]

Yes. Extinct. That's what weThey are.

<_<

>_>

Come here my precious....I just need a little more lustre.

[Mando Knight]

I wouldn't be so careless. "Extinct" creatures tend to chill with each other, so you might find yourself getting Tasmanian Tigers dropped on you by Passenger Pigeons, while the Dodo charges you on a Velociraptor.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Arcane pretty much means it can only be used by those who have been initiated into it; in DnD this initiation would be from intense study of it's intricacies and usage or initiation from bloodline connections.

The title of Arcane just signifies how these spells come into being. Divine magic is granted to a worshiper, there is no initiation which allows the caster to perform divine magic on their own.

It's trickier when you think of clerics who worship an idea or concept. That can be written off as belief granting a concept the power which in turn allows it to grant spells. That or it should be considered a related, but different subgroup altogether.

The way I figure it, divine magic is divine because it comes from a source outside the user's own personal knowledge or will. Whether it's a physically extant deity, an abstraction of the physical world, a metaphysical concept, or even just a sense of belief that transcends the individual. Depending on setting, of course.

[InQbait]

I rather like those settings where magic is uncommon and rare, known only by few. Which, I think, makes being a wizard much more cool. And makes facing an evil wizard much more scary. When you've got settings like world of warcraft, for example, half the population knows how to use magic and it makes magic feel less important.

[Andrewmoreton]

Arcane means

known or understood by very few; mysterious; secret; obscure; esoteric:

Which is a good explanation of Arcane Magic in D+D . Simple once you know what the word actually means it makes sense.
Problem solved by reading a dictionary

[TuggyNE]

Arcane means

known or understood by very few; mysterious; secret; obscure; esoteric:

Which is a good explanation of Arcane Magic in D+D . Simple once you know what the word actually means it makes sense.
Problem solved by reading a dictionary

I don't get why the thread is still going; it was a perfectly simple misunderstanding, easily addressed in the first post. Just let it go already!

[SiuiS]

I don't get why the thread is still going; it was a perfectly simple misunderstanding, easily addressed in the first post. Just let it go already!

Because I still want an answer! Where did he get "old" from? That's a potentially really cool conversation.

[Joe the Rat]

A confusion of Arcane and Archaic (Or possibly just the Archae- root). One letter difference on the root. The etymologies are unrelated.
Really, they aren't.

As a tangent, I'm calling my mysterious ancient civilization that built all the dungeons and ruins the Archaeans. They also created a lot of arcane stuff. And walking suits of armor that shoot lances of blazing light from their spears but that's just a rumor.

[Ravens_cry]

I had an idea fora D&D setting where all magic was arcane, 'divine' magic was the preview of priestly wizards, though this was mostly kept secret except from the higher echelons of various faiths, with the reality of gods ambiguous.

[SiuiS]

A confusion of Arcane and Archaic (Or possibly just the Archae- root). One letter difference on the root. The etymologies are unrelated.
Really, they aren't.

As a tangent, I'm calling my mysterious ancient civilization that built all the dungeons and ruins the Archaeans. They also created a lot of arcane stuff. And walking suits of armor that shoot lances of blazing light from their spears but that's just a rumor.

If I can get Mastikator to confirm this is where his confusion came from, I'll be on my way. Until then...

[Lorsa]

If I can get Mastikator to confirm this is where his confusion came from, I'll be on my way. Until then...

Maybe the source of the confusion is really arcane in nature?

[TuggyNE]

Maybe the source of the confusion is really arcane in nature?

I c wut u did thar.

[Asheram]

If I can get Mastikator to confirm this is where his confusion came from, I'll be on my way. Until then...

That's kind of... not cool, you know. If it was a mistake (which is was, Arcane doesn't mean old) then it might be embarrassing enough to be called on it.

Most of these words are learnt from others. For an example, you don't check a dictionary before using most roleplaying lingo.

[SiuiS]

On the contrary. I find telling a person surmise of another's motivations as a means of ending a discussion unsubstantiated is rude. This;

Where do you get arcane meaning old from? I know it means overly complex, seemingly archaic as a process, but that's an entirely different thing than old.

Arcane magic is arcane because it is supposedly based on formulae and thought forms which are arcane in the complexity sense. But it's gone on so long that arcane is now derived from magic, rather than being its own thing; arcane means mystic. The definition I have at my fingers literally says understood by few; mysterious or secret. It then goes on to list arcere as the etymological root, to keep secret, 'to shut up'.

Is conversational. A question was asked, I responded and politely requested further discussion.

[Perseus]

I wouldn't be so careless. "Extinct" creatures tend to chill with each other, so you might find yourself getting Tasmanian Tigers dropped on you by Passenger Pigeons, while the Dodo charges you on a Velociraptor.

I'm playing a high level druid, I'm totally turning into a dodo to ride my velociraptor into battle.

Also technically there is no arcane magic in 3.5 d&d since a deity controls the web. She can giveth and she can taketh. You could say that all magic is divine magic but the other gods wanted a non compete clause so they split up the spell list and made it so armor interferes with wizards and such.

[Eldan]

That's only in the Forgotten Realms. Not everyone plays there.

[Perseus]

That's only in the Forgotten Realms. Not everyone plays there.

So Eberron didn't get turned into 4e when Mystra died? (Spelling?).

Also don't take everything so serious. I'm pretty sure I know not everyone plays the same campaign world. Heck I prefer darksun in 3.5 (which wasn't official) sooo yeah.

[Nerd-o-rama]

So Eberron didn't get turned into 4e when Mystra died? (Spelling?).

Also don't take everything so serious. I'm pretty sure I know not everyone plays the same campaign world. Heck I prefer darksun in 3.5 (which wasn't official) sooo yeah.

Then why did you say "there is no arcane magic in 3.5?" Also, what the hells has Mystra ever had to do with Eberron?

Also I'd say that the Weave (and the Shadow Weave) are metaphysical things you can use arcane knowledge to tap into, but particular deities can restrict your access, at least if you piss off all of them. Mystra doesn't grant arcane spells (except to particular followers), she's just the sysadmin for the Weave (and her Chosen are power users with elevated security rights).