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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    Standard-Bearer

    ”To me, brothers! Forward the Black Hand! Drive them into the abyss!”
    Davram Echols, Standard-Bearer of the Black Hand mercenary company
    "Cut that banner down! Make them pay, the arrogan..."
    York Martin, Commander of the 5th Battalion, deceased at the battle of Green River Ford


    Standard-Bearers are the heart of many military companies. While not typically the actual leader, where their banner goes, the company follows. The banner is often in the thick of the combat, rallying and directing the troops, encouraging them as needed. Bannermen are traditionally well-liked among their comrades, for they, quite literally, carry the honor of them all. In formal armies, the Standard-Bearer is traditionally a sergeant, although it can vary based on company composition and personality. After all, while he may be the heart of his company, he is also readily identifiable by the enemy as well, and quite often one of the best targets for their efforts. It takes a very certain type of person to take that big of a bulls-eye on themselves.

    Role: Standard-bearers may be anywhere on the battlefield that suits them, based on their previous skills, they are, however, nearly universally of a martial bent. The Standard-Bearer as a whole, while adequate in combat, shines in his ability to support his allies in the fight. His shouts and banners can turn the tide of a battle, or assure a victory.
    Alignment: Any non-chaotic. Combat companies have a remarkably low tolerance for people who don’t know how to follow rules or orders.

    Entry Requirements:
    BAB: +5
    Skills: Knowledge (military) or Profession (military) 4 ranks
    Alignment: Any non-chaotic
    Other: Must be serving as a member of a combat company


    Class Skills: Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Military) (Int), Profession (Int), Ride (Dex)
    Skill Points per Level: 2 + Int mod

    Hit dice: d10

    Standard-Bearer
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
    1st|
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +1
    |Banner, Inspiration, Banner of Courage, Banner of Focused Fury

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |10’ Swift Advance, Shake it Off

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +2
    |Rallying Cry

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +2
    |20’ Swift Advance, Hold the Line, Dodge and Roll

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +3
    |Rise and Fight!, Lasting Impression
    [/table]

    Class Features:

    Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The Standard-Bearer is proficient with simple and marital weapons as well as light and medium armor.

    Banner: The Standard-Bearer, as one might guess by his name, carries his company standard, for simplicity’s sake we will refer to it as the banner. In order to use any of his banner-based abilities, the Standard-Bearer must first arrange to have his company’s banner protected. This costs 150g when he first takes a level in Standard-Bearer, for a properly imposing banner to be crafted. If a Banner is ever lost, the base replacement cost is 500g and takes 8 hours to be crafted. The banner can be carried on the person of the Standard-Bearer (often attached to a saddle or on the man’s back), wielded as a pole weapon (traditionally a lance or longspear), or planted in the ground.
    A Standard-Bearer gets their level+cha bonus Banner ability activations a day. Activation of a Banner ability is a standard action, and affects the Bannerman and all allies who can see the banner. Allies must be able to see the banner to gain the bonuses. The effect lasts for 1+Cha bonus rounds. The banner has HP equal to (Standard-Bearer’s level ) x 5. The banner has a hardness of 5+Standard-Bearer level. Banner abilities will be labelled in the description or title as such. Normally a Standard-Bearer can only grant one banner bonus at a given time.

    Inspiration: The Standard-Bearer lets out an inspiring yell. As a standard action, all allies who can hear the Standard-Bearer within 120’ are inspired to greater heights of fury in combat -- a morale bonus to damage rolls equal to the Standard-Bearer’s level for 1+1/2 Cha bonus rounds. This ability is usable 1+Cha bonus times per day.

    Banner of Courage: The Standard-Bearer can use his Banner to inspire hope and loyalty in his allies. Allies gain a circumstance bonus to will saves of 1+Standard-Bearer level. The bonus increases by +2 against fear effects.

    Banner of Focused Fury: The Standard-Bearer inspires his allies in their attacks and raising their fury. The critical damage multiplier of attacks within 60’ is raised by 1 -- from x2 to x3 to x4, etc. At level four, this Banner also increases the crit range of attacks by 1 (20 -> 19-20, etc)

    Swift Advance: The Standard-Bearer calls out and waves the banner forward for the advance. This is a Banner ability. Allies gain 10’ to their speed. This bonus increases to 20’ at level 4. While under the effect of this banner, allies also gain a +2 morale bonus on charge attacks, bull rush attempts, and overrun attempts. This stacks with a Cavalier's bonus from their Banner ability. A Standard-Bearer can also expend a Banner ability use to double the overland (non-combat) speed of allies who stay within 120’ for a number of hours equal to his Standard-Bearer level.

    Shake It Off: The Standard-Bearer rallies his allies to overcome physical ailments that plague them. This is a banner ability. Allies affected by the banner gain a 1+Standard-Bearer level circumstance bonus to Fortitude saves. Any allies who are affected by abilities that grant fortitude saves can immediately attempt another save against it. Any ally that has to make a fortitude save because of an enemy can roll twice and take the better of the two rolls.

    Rallying Cry: When the Standard-Bearer activates a banner ability, he can choose to shout out a loud cry of encouragement to his allies. This cry inspires his allies to overcome wounds dealt to them. All allies within 60’ who can hear the Standard-Bearer gain 5*Standard-Bearer level temporary HP. These last for one minute. This ability is usable once per day at level 3, twice at level 4, and three times at level 5.

    Hold the Line!: It stops here. With a commanding roar, the Standard-Bearer charges his fellows to stop the enemy in its tracks. This is a Banner ability. All allies gain a +4 morale bonus to CMD against Bull Rush, Overrun, and Grapple attempts. Furthermore, the Standard-Bearer can choose to plant the banner with enough force to create a zone of difficult terrain. This can either be expressed as a circle with a 25’ diameter centered on the square the banner is planted on, a cone going out 35’, or a line 120’.

    Dodge and Roll: With a rallying wave of the banner, the Standard-Bearer directs and hastens the steps of his allies. This is a Banner ability. Allies gain a 1+Standard-Bearer level circumstance bonus to Reflex saves. Whenever an ally must make a reflex save, they can also take a five foot step prior to making the save. This may allow them to no longer be targeted by an area of effect ability. They also gain a bonus to Acrobatics checks equal to the Standard-Bearer’s level.

    Rise and Fight!: The Standard-Bearer is able to call on his allies resolve, bringing them back to the fight, even from the brink of death. By taking a full-round action, the Standard-Bearer can bring a willing ally within 30’ back to consciousness. They return with ˝ their maximum hp and free of any lingering effects such as poison or enchantment. After one minute, the effects wear off and the ally loses ˝ their max HP, down to a minimum of 1 HP. This ability can be used once per day.

    Lasting Impression: The Standard-Bearer has the option to augment his Banner abilities. He can choose to spend a second use to double the duration of an ability when he activates it, or activate another ability at the same time.
    Last edited by Rainshine; 2013-08-25 at 05:25 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    You might want to add Charisma 13 to the prerequisites since so many bonuses are based on the standard-bearer's charisma modifier.

    You don't actually gain a bonus per se to move speed. Your speed simply increases by 10 feet. I see this a lot and it's kinda silly.

    You should probably state that using a banner is a Standard Action.

    Dodge and Roll: With a rallying wave of the banner, the Standard-Bearer directs and hastens the steps of his allies. This is a Banner ability. Allies gain a 1+Standard-Bearer level to Reflex saves. Whenever an ally must make a reflex save, they can also take a five foot step prior to making the save. This may allow them to no longer be targeted by an area of effect ability. They also gain a bonus to Acrobatics checks equal to the Standard-Bearer’s level.
    The bonus isn't clear. What it is seems they should get is a bonus equal to your levels as a Standard bearer but that isn't what isn't clear is what kinda of bonus (Circumstance would make the most sense).

    Morale bonuses don't stack. Circumstance bonuses stack. You might want to change one or two to Competence Modifiers as well.

    Circumstance Modifier
    A circumstance bonus (or penalty) arises from specific conditional factors impacting the success of the task at hand. Circumstance bonuses stack with all other bonuses, including other circumstance bonuses, unless they arise from essentially the same source.

    Competence Modifier
    A competence bonus (or penalty) affects a character's performance of a particular task, as in the case of the bardic ability to inspire competence. Such a bonus may apply on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, caster level checks, or any other checks to which a bonus relating to level or skill ranks would normally apply. It does not apply on ability checks, damage rolls, initiative checks, or other rolls that aren't related to a character's level or skill ranks. Multiple competence bonuses don't stack; only the highest bonus applies.

    Morale Modifier
    A morale bonus represents the effects of greater hope, courage, and determination (or hopelessness, cowardice, and despair in the case of a morale penalty). Multiple morale bonuses on the same character do not stack. Only the highest morale bonus applies. Nonintelligent creatures (creatures with an Intelligence of 0 or no Intelligence at all) cannot benefit from morale bonuses.
    Some of your text could be clearer:

    Inspiration: The standard-bearer lets out an inspiring yell. As a standard action, all allies within 60 feet who can hear the Standard-Bearer are inspired to greater heights of fury in combat. They gain a morale bonus to damage rolls equal to the Standard-Bearer’s level for a number of rounds equal to the 1˝ the standard-bearer’s charisma modifier (minimum 1). This ability is usable by the standard-bear 1+˝ times the standard-bearer’s charisma modifier.

    Banner of Courage: As a standard action, a standard-bearer can use his banner to inspire hope and loyalty in his allies. Allies within 60 feet of the standard-bearer who can see him gain a morale bonus to Will saves equal to the standard-bearer's level plus 1 (minimum 1). The bonus increases by +2 against fear effects.

    [How often can this be done and how long does this last? It seems that this should also be a standard action and should affect allies within 60 feet. ]

    Banner of Focused Fury: As banner of courage but the standard-bearer inspires his allies in their attacks and raising their fury. Allies within 60 feet of the standard-bearer who can see him have their critical damage multiplier doubled. At level four, this banner also increases the critical range of allies' attacks by 1 step.

    [how often can this be done and long does this last? I added "as banner of courage" to make it a bit clearer.]

    Swift Advance: This is a Banner Ability. When the standard-bearer calls out and waves the banner forward for the advance, a move action allies gain 10 feet of movement speed to their base movement. Speed increases to 20 feet at level 4. While under the effect of this banner. allies also gain a +2 morale bonus on charge attacks, bull rush attempts, and overrun attempts. A Standard-Bearer can also expend a banner ability use to double the overland (non-combat) speed of allies who stay within 120 feet for a number of hours equal to his Standard-Bearer level.

    [How long do the regular speed increase and morale bonus last? Calling out and waving the banner should be a move action.

    Shake It Off: The standard-bearer rallies his allies to overcome physical ailments that plague them. This is a banner ability. Allies affected by the banner gain an enhancement bonus equal to Standard-Bearer's level +1 to their Fortitude saves. Any allies who fail a Fortitude save can immediately make another roll and take the better of the two rolls. [How often can this be done? It seems like this should be a number of times per day equal to the standard-bearer's level. How long does the bonus last?]

    Rallying cry has all the information needed.

    How many banner uses a day a standard-bearer has should be noted in the chart.

    Death Beckons: By expending a number of Banner uses, he can grant the banner the equivalent of a weapon enhancement equal to the uses expended. A standard-bearer's enhancement bonuses can be no more than than equal to his standard-bearer level. These bonuses can also be used to grant the banner weapon properties, flaming, etc. The activated banner must abide by standard rules for weapons (always have a +1, etc.). Once activated, the weapon properties cannot be changed for the rest of the day. This ability can be used for a total five minutes a day, in one minute increments.

    Not bad but it needs some work. You should be able to fix the rest of the abilities on your own now.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-08-19 at 10:15 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    I kind of like the idea, but that's pretty much what the Cavalier does. You could make the prestige class specific to an organization to justify it. Also, I would make it compatible with the Cavalier's ability. I like it being a 5 level prc.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    Debby, you rock :D I'll look closer over your list, I've already corrected the bonus types, I believe. As for the duration/number of uses and such, in the writeup it is covered under the Banner level one ability text -- the class gets a pool of uses, ala bardic music.
    Thanks, Iron, I'll look over the pair of abilities that replicate that. I had mostly been looking at paladin/fighter stuff, and had just glimpsed over the Cavalier

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    Just glancing over, this looks like a cool idea, although I couldn't say offhand how much it overlaps with the cavalier.

    I don't see any indication of what happens to the company if their banner is lost, stolen, or otherwise desecrated. Historically the loss of a banner or standard often involved an incredible blow to the soldiers' morale, if not to national pride itself. You might want to incorporate some sort of morale penalty, perhaps severe, for the entire company if the banner ever comes to any harm.

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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    Can I ask why the number of uses is Class Level + Half CHA instead of CL + CHA?

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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    I agree with amechra, I don't understand why you opted for CL+1/2 Cha.

    And as Palanan I'd like to see some informations about the loss of the banner.

    Lastly, suggestions time: seeing as nobody has already suggested this, I'll give you what I consider to be the standard suggestion around here. Raise the skill points to 4+Int and add Listen and Spot to the class' skills. I would also like to suggest Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) as a class skill: I think a standard bearer would be quite able to recognize other standards and emblems on the battlefield.

    I love what you've done with this class anyway.:)
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    The 1/2 charisma thing was to try and limit overall uses. It's a five level prestige class, so while the abilities granted, I figure, should be roughly 1/4 of a character, maybe a little more since it's a prestige class. I didn't want it to be the sole defining thing for a character. At max level, it's going to be seven base uses daily. Assuming charisma as a secondary stat for the character taking the class, 20-22 , that's the difference between ten and thirteen uses. I guess if they use DB though, there's five uses right there, so...

    Thinking about the loss thing. On one hand, I don't want to make it so a single fireball completely ruins his month, but you raise an excellent point

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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    Don't hamstring your class just because it is a 5-level class. Using full charisma makes a lot more sense.

    Also, I thought you might appreciate this feat even though it is from Pathfinder. See here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat...agbearer-local

    Flagbearer (Combat)
    Prerequisites: Cha 15.

    Benefit: As long as you hold your clan, house, or party’s flag, members of that allegiance within 30 feet who can see the flag (including yourself ) gain a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, and saving throws against fear and charm effects. You must hold the flag in one hand in order to grant this bonus. If the standard is taken by the enemy or destroyed, this bonus becomes a penalty, affecting all creatures that the bonus previously affected for 1 hour (or until you reclaim the lost flag).

    Flag
    A flag is a colorful banner that bears the heraldry or symbol of a nation or organization. A character with the Flagbearer feat who bears a flag can grant additional combat bonuses to nearby allies. Carrying a flag in combat requires a free hand.
    Cost: 10 gp Weight 3 lbs.
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-08-20 at 05:09 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    Oh, and can I suggest that if you have Knight levels, you can use Knight's Challenge uses in place of Banner Activations?

    Because that would be loverly.

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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    Thematically, I also see the marshal as a fitting class for this prc. Maybe he could benefit from some kind of bonus like using Charisma modifier in place of his Standard Bearer level, or double the range of his auras when wielding a banner..

    Actually there are quite a good amount of classes that would fit the Standard Bearer role, from the common fighter wielding his battalion's banner to the paladin or the knight (or cavalier) that wields those of their faiths or their orders. And, again, the marshal but even a barbarian could wield a banner (the late era romans took their dragon-shaped standards from sarmatians and other steppe peoples, that were considered barbarians at the time). Even a bard could be considered a special kind of standard bearer (look at the jongleurs in the normans army), raising his allies morale with both his songs and the use of the standard.

    Maybe a special paragraph could be reserved to these classes listing some special and unique benefits they get from taking this prc. Or maybe not, seeing as there are quite many of them.
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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    Ok, was the suggestion of "using the banner is a standard" action a pun? Because I thought it was pretty cool.

    I was skeptical when i read the title, but this could actually be fun to play. I like militaresque campaigns.

    I agree on the CHA 13 pre requisite, and I would not mind if you threw in a feat or two to sweeten the pot. Like, say, something from the dodge-mobility tree or iron will (the bearer survives the thick of the most horrible battles by being able to judge where the lines ebb and flow, and picks the most advantageous spot. Iron will: it takes a LOT of guts to go to battle and to worry more about a piece of cloth than about your personal safety).

    Could be an either / or

    1) Dodge/Mobility at levels 3 and 5

    or

    2) Iron Will / Improved toughness levels 3 and 5

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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    i like Ossian suggestions, especially number 2, iron will and improved thoughness!:)
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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    So all these effects last for 1+ standard brearer's Charisma ROUNDS? Without out a Charisma requirement you could be in negative numbers. Typically, effects last for 1d4 rounds plus a number of rounds equal to the class's ability modifier. However most of these abilities are ones that should be once a day effects.

    Your banner write up is far too complicated. K.I.S.S. principle should guide you.

    Banner: At first level, a standard-bearer gains the Flagbearer feat as a bonus feat even if he does not meet the requirements for it. He is also granted a flag or banner to carry. A banner weighs 3 lbs. and costs 10 gp.

    You'll note you no longer need Inspiration at first level since the Flagbearer feat already grants a morale bonus. Also, there is no reason a flag should cost more than an Explorer's outfit (10 gp). Making a flag would be a craft (sewing or tailoring) or Profession (seamstress or tailor) check. DC 15 (assuming this is a high-quality item).

    In addition, this prevents the banner from being used as a weapon. If you allow the banner to be used as weapon, can it be seen since you would have to lower it to attack. This is a major headache. I would rather see a standard bearer be limited to light and one-handed weapons in that case.

    None of your effects actually help the standard bearer since they only affect allies. This is terrible for the standard bearer. I recommend you change it so the effects affects allies including the standard bearer.

    The DCs are terrible since it is only half Cha modifier. Again, without the requirement for charisma 13 or even 15, you can be in negative numbers.

    BTW prestige classes don't give out Hit Points per se, they tell you which HD to use. You should fix that. And I recommend you compare your layout to other prestige classes for that reason.

    Gold Pieces are always abbreviated gp not g.

    When indicating feet, use "feet", "foot", or "ft." using a single quotation mark is lazy formatting.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-08-21 at 07:20 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    Not to be contradictory, but...

    Prestige Classes shouldn't have an ability score requirement. If they do, you can lose your PrC by taking ability damage, thus doing some really weird things. Instead, anything that uses your Charisma should have (min. 1) next to it, or other wording to that effect.

    Additionally, as someone who has drafting (architectural drawing) experience, I have to argue that using an apostrophe to designate distance is both neater than using some abbreviation of the word feet, and results in less visual clutter.

    In combat situations in D&D, an encounter tends to end in 3 rounds; this class isn't really useful for an army engagement, given that it's buffing stuff only has a radius of 60'.

    Part of me wants to suggest that the Banner abilities affect any ally that can see you clearly, as the entire class looks like it is based off (relatively mundane) morale boosting stuff.

    It wouldn't be without precedent; Bardic Music affects allies who can hear/see your performance, while a Marshal's auras affect anyone who can see or hear them as well.

    That way, they could actually boost an army! Wild, I know.

    As for Death Beckons, may I suggest changing the wording from "(maxxed by his Standard-Bearer Level)" to "(to a maximum number of uses expended equal to their class level)"? It reads much more clearly.

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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    Not true. You only need an ability score to enter the class. If your charisma drops, you're kinda screwed by this class any way since most features are dependent on having a decent charisma score. If your charisma drops to 9 or less you lose a lot of this class's benefits, but that does not necessarily mean you lose the class too unless you state it that way. I would not do that. As of yet, there are no rules on being an ex-standard-bearer.

    I really like the idea of this prestige class, but the execution is terribly flawed.

    Death Beckons needs a serious re-write. The text on banner uses is missing. How does the name of this ability relate to what it does? Also, giving out free weapon enhancements for 5 minutes is useful to a degree but there are better things this could do. Since this is a military organization, magic weapons shouldn't be all that rare. It is unlikely that the enhancement bonus will be better than the weapons the army already has.

    Death Defied: By planting the banner in the ground (a full-round action), a standard bearer and his allies gain Damage Reduction 5/— as long as he and they are within 250 feet of the banner. The banner does not need to be seen to gain this effect. However, as soon as the banner is pulled out of the ground (an immediate action), the benefit is lost.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-08-21 at 07:39 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    Huh, I misread your post (or mixed your post up with someone else's suggestion) as saying that this class should have Charisma 13+ as a prerequisite.

    Sorry about that.

    But yeah, I do have to agree that the execution could be better. After all...

    Very few things use half ability score modifier for anything. The only times 1/2 Mod comes up if I remember correctly is weapon damage and bonus power points.

    Also, Death Beckons is, in practice, a rather terrible idea. After all, if you want a +5 equivalent weapon (most people are running around with +10 equivalents by 20th, anyway), you have to blow a third to a half of your daily Banner uses.

    Also, if you are going to have stuff run of a pool of uses per day, they don't need another limit. And you probably shouldn't have multiple pools for a given PrC.

    For example, if Death Beckons just lasted a minute with each use, it would end up being about the same amount of time each day... but it would look a lot more natural.

    Or let's look at Rise and Fight; you could remove the 1/day restriction and make it a banner ability, and everything would be hunky dory.

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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    Huh, I misread your post (or mixed your post up with someone else's suggestion) as saying that this class should have Charisma 13+ as a prerequisite.
    That was my idea actually. I think you misunderstood what it mean.


    But yeah, I do have to agree that the execution could be better. After all...

    Very few things use half ability score modifier for anything. The only times 1/2 Mod comes up if I remember correctly is weapon damage and bonus power points.

    Also, Death Beckons is, in practice, a rather terrible idea. After all, if you want a +5 equivalent weapon (most people are running around with +10 equivalents by 20th, anyway), you have to blow a third to a half of your daily Banner uses.
    Here's the main problem:
    The banner can be used to grant bonuses Standard-Bearer level+cha mod times/day, in a radius of 60’. Allies must be able to see the banner to gain the bonuses.

    If you have to be able to see the banner and you are in combat, you probably aren't looking a the banner. Do you have to succeed at a concentration check to be able to look at the banner and fight a target?

    Rather than having banner uses that require you to be able to see the banner and limit you to 60 feet from it (good in small skirmishes but lousy for big battles). Even simple illusions can prevent the banner from being seen unless you successfully disbelieve. An invisibility spell cast on a banner reduces is usefulness as well. A smart enemy will try to set it on fire.

    If you aren't going to have a charisma requirement, you can end up with as few uses as two a day if your charisma drops to 3. Anything that deals charisma damage or drain is gonna have a serious effect on a standard-bearer).

    Charisma 0 means that the character is withdrawn into a catatonic, coma-like stupor, helpless. It should also means he drops his banner.

    Or let's look at Rise and Fight; you could remove the 1/day restriction and make it a banner ability, and everything would be hunky dory.
    I'm not crazy about banner abilities. There are too many easy ways an enemy can get around them. First, all he needs to is block the banner from sight. You don't even need a spellcaster to do that. Trees, buildings, etc. will block line of sight. Second, being out of range is too easy.

    I would simplify Rise and Fight as well as follows:

    Rise and Fight (Su): Once a day as a full-round action, a standard-bearer can bring a willing ally within 30 feet back to consciousness. The ally returns with ˝ its maximum hit points and free from any lingering effects such as poison, spell effects, and adverse conditions.

    Lasting Impression: At 5th level, the standard-bearer gains the ability to use all of his class abilities twice a day instead of just once. In addition, the distances that limit any standard-bearer's ability are doubled.

    One thing I noticed: while the banner can be used as weapon as a lance or longspear, it is not well-defined.

    When used as a weapon, a banner is a two-handed marital reach weapon that does 1d6 (S) or 1d8 (M) piercing damage. It deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount.

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    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-08-21 at 09:07 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    You do realize that if you stop qualifying for something, you lose its benefits, right?

    So if you made Charisma 13+ a prerequisite of the class, if you ever dropped below that amount (through, say, Charisma damage), you would no longer qualify for the prestige class, thus causing you to either just lose the benefits of the class features (Complete Arcane version of lacking prerequisites) or lose all benefits, including hit dice, save bonuses, skill ranks, BAB, and the like.

    That's why there is only 1 official PrC that has an ability score prerequisite; because it's a headache waiting to happen.

    You just need language near the uses and durations that provide a minimum number of uses or duration, that's all (that's what pretty much every other class feature that uses an ability modifier to determine uses does. It is the standard.) Alternatively, make it your Charisma bonus (if any), not your Charisma modifier; that inherently means that you won't have lower than <Class Level> uses in all.

    I'm kinda wondering whether or not you considered the implications of making the class have an ability score minimum as a prerequisite...*

    Additionally, vision is abstracted in D&D; if you can see something, it doesn't require checks to do something else. After all, in combat you are assumed to be moving around (and looking around) in your square; that's why there aren't any facing rules (except in Unearthed Arcana, but that's the big ol' book of houserules, so...)

    Also, you do realize that, fluff-wise, this class makes no sense if you don't have to see the banner for stuff to work? I mean, sure, throw in a class feature or two that prevent illusions from applying to the banner, but still. What next, having problems with the fact that you need to hear Bardic Music for it to work?

    Finally, making the abilities 1/day is not a very good idea; it just contributes to the 15-minute adventuring day, and, well...

    It makes people wary of using their class features. Because you could get into another fight pretty soon, and all your shiny abilities would just not be there. After all, your handling this encounter pretty well, but the next one could be a TPK...

    1/day abilities are for monsters and NPCs.

    But yeah, I'm still going to say that making the banner abilities not have a maximum range (instead extending to any ally that has line of sight to the standard) would not be inappropriate.

    *Yeah, I'm aware that some PrCs have feat prerequisites that themselves have ability score prerequisites. That is something I consider pretty darn unfortunate; I kinda houserule prereqs to be based off of your "permanent" traits, and don't allow temporary boosts to qualify you for anything.
    Last edited by Amechra; 2013-08-21 at 09:05 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    Let me reiterate it again. You only need Cha 13+ to enter the class. You can have your charisma drop below that without losing your class. Features that are charisma dependent will be reduced.

    "If a character does not meet the Requirements for a prestige class before that first step, that character cannot take the first level of that prestige class." It doesn't say you have to continue meet the requirement after you have taken your first level. You assume much, Grasshopper. :-)

    Let's face it, if you have this: "The banner can be used to grant bonuses Standard-Bearer level+cha mod times/day, in a radius of 60 feet" and a charisma modifier of less +1 you aren't gaining an additional benefit from your charisma and if your modifier is a negative number, it's worse.

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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    Where are you getting that from? Because the rulings from Complete Arcane and Complete Warrior both disagree. And the fun part is, the thing you quoted doesn't contradict my point.

    Though I was wrong in what I said about Complete Warrior (foggy memory, eh); here is the pertinent quote (if you want page numbers, I can dig out my copy...)

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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    Where are you getting that from? Because the rulings from Complete Arcane and Complete Warrior both disagree. And the fun part is, the thing you quoted doesn't contradict my point.

    Though I was wrong in what I said about Complete Warrior (foggy memory, eh); here is the pertinent quote (if you want page numbers, I can dig out my copy...)
    I hardly ever use non-core material when homebrewing since not everyone has or uses supplementary books and that material is not open content.

    However, since you make a good point for it, removing the Charisma requirement makes sense. Of course if your charisma drops any way, there's a chance you can't use some of these class features regardless.

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    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-08-21 at 09:38 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    Which is why I'm suggesting putting in a (Min. 1) note next to the uses per day, durations, and bonuses that use Charisma.

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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    It depends on whether the class will be revised and how. I'm not a fan of the banner usages even with a minimum of one since it's not an improvement over once a day abilities. I'm thinking these should go to 2 twice a day at some point as well. It's a big overhaul to make this class run smoothly.

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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    Maybe I missed it in the text wall of the class features but, since we're talking about Charisma loss, wouldn't specifying that even if your charisma mod is negative all the banner abilities lasts at least for one round?
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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    It should specify number of rounds (minimum 1) but alas does not. This makes this a class difficult to use.

    The banner can be used to grant bonuses Standard-Bearer level+cha mod times/day, in a radius of 60’. Allies must be able to see the banner to gain the bonuses. The effect lasts for 1+Cha mod rounds.
    What it should say is this:

    The standard-bearer can also use his banner to grant bonuses. These bonuses can be used a number of times a day equal to the standard-bearer's level plus his charisma modifier (minimum 1). The effects of these bonuses last for a number of rounds equal to the standard-bearer's charisma modifier plus 1 (minimum 1).

    Which abilities are banner uses aren't clearly marked.

    In my opinion, that's just too much work to do as just about every ability is somehow keyed off charisma.

    It also goes on to say this:
    The banner has HP equal to (Standard-Bearer’s level ) x 5. The banner has a hardness of 5+Standard-Bearer level. Banner abilities will be labelled in the description or title as such.
    Why the banner's hit points and hardness are variable are beyond me. This is just odd.

    Alignment: Any non-chaotic should also be a requirement.

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    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-08-21 at 11:03 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    that's right, that was exactly what I meant:)
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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    If I were making this class this is how I would have started:

    Banner: At first level, a standard-bearer gains the Flagbearer feat as a bonus feat even if he does not meet the requirements for it. He is also granted a flag or banner to carry. The banner is a colorful cloth that bears the symbol of his organization. A character with the Flagbearer feat that bears a banner can grant additional combat bonuses to nearby allies. Carrying a flag in combat requires a free hand. A banner weighs 3 lbs. and costs 10 gp. As the banner is made from cloth, it has 0 hardness and 2 hit points.

    The banner may be held in one hand and waved as a move action. A standard-bearer can fight while holding a banner in his off-hand at no penalty but can only fight with light or one-handed weapons in his primary hand.

    Alternatively, the standard-bearer may hang the banner from a pole and wield it as a weapon. When used as a weapon, a banner is a two-handed martial reach weapon that does 1d6 (Small) or 1d8 (Medium) points of piercing damage. It deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount.

    The pole holding the banner can be planted in the ground as move action if the ground is soft (as a standard action if the ground is hard), however, lifting the pole from the ground is only a move action. A mounted standard-bearer can lift the pole as swift action.

    Did I miss anything? I figured it is harder to twist a pole into the ground than it is to pull it out of the hole.

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    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-08-21 at 09:02 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    Speaking as someone who has planted flags... a banner IRL would have a sharp point on the bottom specifically to make planting it faster.

    So I think a move action to stick it in the ground wouldn't be too bad, and I can't think of why it would be unbalanced...

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    Default Re: [3.P Prestige class, PEACH] The Standard-Bearer, Keeping the Flag Flying

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    Speaking as someone who has planted flags... a banner IRL would have a sharp point on the bottom specifically to make planting it faster.

    So I think a move action to stick it in the ground wouldn't be too bad, and I can't think of why it would be unbalanced...
    I'd imagine the ground would have to be fairly soft in order to pound a pole into it as a move action. In hard ground, it should be a standard action. I don't want to make things too easy :-)

    I'll change my text to match that.

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    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-08-21 at 09:00 PM.
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