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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    unseenmage's Avatar

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    Default Immunity to Rod of Construct Control and/or Warforged Domain?

    I'm looking to found a Construct community within a mountain between two warring nations. Basically the plan is to mass produce Constructs, then apply the Incarnate Construct spell and/or the Awaken Construct spell via resetting traps.

    Resetting traps or Runic Guardian SLAs of Minor Servitor and Crawling Claw are possibilities for the mass production.
    The Feats in Items sidebar from the Arms and Equipment Guide combined with the Wondrous Architecture rules from the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook could also allow some Constructs to make more constructs.


    Anyway, my main concerns are the citizenry of the Construct settlement succumbing to either mass use of Rods of Construct Control or the Warforged Domain. And for the life of me I can't think of ways to shield them from such.

    Thoughts Playground?

    Edit: Would a Mythal do it? And is there a way to create one without needing to be/befriend an epic character?

    Methods so far:
    - Rod of Construct Control them back to your own side
    - Antimagic Field
    - Antimagic Ray
    - Antimagic Shackles
    - Energy Transformation Field
    - Planar Bubble with Genesis and the Null Magic trait
    - Contingency
    - Protection from Alignment
    Last edited by unseenmage; 2013-08-23 at 09:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Immunity to Rod of Construct Control and/or Warforged Domain?

    I'm wondering too, how much difference there is between repeating traps of the above mentioned traps and Wondrous Architecture would be?

    For that matter can such spells be imbued in magic traps or magic rooms for less than Epic wealth?

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    Default Re: Immunity to Rod of Construct Control and/or Warforged Domain?

    Huh, who'da thought, a simple magic Rod would be so difficult to protect oneself from.

    I suppose Antimagic Fields and Energy Transformation Fields are the way to go then.

    My DM just reminded me of the Contingency spell which could also work.
    And Planar Bubble shenanigans plus 'Null Magic Trait' Genesis could help too.
    Last edited by unseenmage; 2013-08-23 at 01:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Immunity to Rod of Construct Control and/or Warforged Domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    Huh, who'da thought, a simple magic Rod would be so difficult to protect oneself from.

    I suppose Antimagic Fields and Energy Transformation Fields are the way to go then.

    My DM just reminded me of the Contingency spell which could also work.
    And Planar Bubble shenanigans plus 'Null Magic Trait' Genesis could help too.
    Let's see... Rod of Construct Control doesn't inherit from anywhere, and doesn't give a type. It is, however, a magic item; Antimagic Shackles (Book of Exalted Deeds) would thus stop it cold; a touch pricy at 132k market each, though, and doesn't help with constructs over Large size. Might be able to make due with Antimagic Ray, at least on a temporary basis... except that it involves SR. Hmm. Oh, you mentioned you're using Incarnate Construct? The Rod of Construct Control specifically lets you give orders 'as though you were the creator' - and when you cast Incarnate Construct, the creator has no control over the beast anymore (although it remains friendly, at least initially). Thus, the Rod of Construct Control won't help on an Incarnate Construct (as the Incarnate Construct isn't required to obey the creator anymore, so it doesn't matter that the rod holder counts as the creator). Does Awaken Construct have similar language? If so, the Rod of Construct Control is useless against your minions [Edit: Yep, it does]. Oh yes, and if you do apply Incarnate Construct, it's not a construct anymore anyway.

    The Warforged Domain... inherits from Rebuking undead, and is explicitly Su. The Antimagic Shackles (above) will handle it, but techncially any item that grants negative energy immunity will also work - a Scarab of Protection would negate the first dozen (and then the Scarab is dust), the Death Ward spell, or the Soulfire armor property (+4 equivalent, Book of Exalted Deeds) which offers the same protection. If you specifically use Incarnate Construct, then you don't have to worry about it at that point - the Construct Type has been removed at that point. Alternately, you can be immune to the Warforged Domain just by using high HD constructs, such as the Greater Stone Golem, as the base.
    Last edited by Jack_Simth; 2013-08-23 at 05:04 PM.
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    Default Re: Immunity to Rod of Construct Control and/or Warforged Domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Simth View Post
    Let's see... Rod of Construct Control doesn't inherit from anywhere, and doesn't give a type. It is, however, a magic item; Antimagic Shackles (Book of Exalted Deeds) would thus stop it cold; a touch pricy at 132k market each, though, and doesn't help with constructs over Large size. Might be able to make due with Antimagic Ray, at least on a temporary basis... except that it involves SR. Hmm. Oh, you mentioned you're using Incarnate Construct? The Rod of Construct Control specifically lets you give orders 'as though you were the creator' - and when you cast Incarnate Construct, the creator has no control over the beast anymore (although it remains friendly, at least initially). Thus, the Rod of Construct Control won't help on an Incarnate Construct (as the Incarnate Construct isn't required to obey the creator anymore, so it doesn't matter that the rod holder counts as the creator). Does Awaken Construct have similar language? If so, the Rod of Construct Control is useless against your minions [Edit: Yep, it does]. Oh yes, and if you do apply Incarnate Construct, it's not a construct anymore anyway.

    The Warforged Domain... inherits from Rebuking undead, and is explicitly Su. The Antimagic Shackles (above) will handle it, but techncially any item that grants negative energy immunity will also work - a Scarab of Protection would negate the first dozen (and then the Scarab is dust), the Death Ward spell, or the Soulfire armor property (+4 equivalent, Book of Exalted Deeds) which offers the same protection. If you specifically use Incarnate Construct, then you don't have to worry about it at that point - the Construct Type has been removed at that point. Alternately, you can be immune to the Warforged Domain just by using high HD constructs, such as the Greater Stone Golem, as the base.
    Sadly, the Rod of Construct Control does let one control constructs affected by Awaken Construct.
    "Against constructs with Intelligence scores, the construct must succeed on a Will save (DC 23) or the wielder takes control."
    Another thought occurred to me and my DM while we were brainstorming earlier. Immunizing just a portion of the populous and equipping them with Rods of Construct Control of their own might be a viable strategy too. Especially considering the gp costs of some of the methods being discussed.

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    Rubik's Avatar

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    Default Re: Immunity to Rod of Construct Control and/or Warforged Domain?

    Changing their types to humanoid or giant via incarnate construct means they're no longer constructs, and thus cannot be controlled by the rod. Alternately Polymorph (for living constructs) and Metamorphosis will change one's type temporarily.
    Last edited by Rubik; 2013-08-23 at 08:18 PM.

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    Default Re: Immunity to Rod of Construct Control and/or Warforged Domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rubik View Post
    Changing their types to humanoid or giant via incarnate construct means they're no longer constructs, and thus cannot be controlled by the rod. Alternately Polymorph (for living constructs) and Metamorphosis will change one's type temporarily.
    Yeah, protecting the Incarnate Construct-ed ones wasn't so much an issue. I intend for it to be an option for the community though.


    I find myself wondering though, if given the choice between remaining a sentient construct or becoming a 'real boy' which would an Awakened NPC Golem choose?

    Would there be some way to determine their choice based on their mental stats or Alignment? Possibly randomize the choice somehow?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Immunity to Rod of Construct Control and/or Warforged Domain?

    I'd actually say that Protection from Alignment would work.

    the barrier blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature (by a magic jar attack, for example) or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person).
    "Including," not limited to. I think the Rod of Construct Control and successful rebuking both unambiguously count as "attempt[s]...to exercise mental control over the creature."

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Immunity to Rod of Construct Control and/or Warforged Domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by A_S View Post
    I'd actually say that Protection from Alignment would work.



    "Including," not limited to. I think the Rod of Construct Control and successful rebuking both unambiguously count as "attempt[s]...to exercise mental control over the creature."
    On that note, would Mind Blank work? Even on the ones without minds?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Immunity to Rod of Construct Control and/or Warforged Domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    On that note, would Mind Blank work? Even on the ones without minds?
    Less clear, by my reading. Neither the rod nor rebuking have the mind-affecting tag, and I'm not sure you can "detect, read, or influence" the "emotions or thoughts" of something that has neither.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Immunity to Rod of Construct Control and/or Warforged Domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by A_S View Post
    Less clear, by my reading. Neither the rod nor rebuking have the mind-affecting tag, and I'm not sure you can "detect, read, or influence" the "emotions or thoughts" of something that has neither.
    Good point, thanks for the clarification.

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