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  1. - Top - End - #781
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    The gods have nothing to do with creating from the void; not in a macrocosmic sense. Individual crystal spheres, that's the ticket.

    Their creation myths may involve the shaping of a particular crystal sphere. Gods are aware of what they didn't do. Unless they're Cyric.
    So some of the events may have happened in some form within some cyrstal sphere or the other from a certain point of view? Possibly with some adjustment so that it could not be gibberish to three-dimensional meat popsicles.

    So for example, Gruumsh and Corellon Larethian know what the real beef between the two of them is, the myths just may or may not have any bearing on what happened between them or have been a convenient explanation after the fact for conflicts between the races under their patronage.

    Hm. On a semi-related note. Did Lathander have to actually be Amaunator for what happened to him to happen or was it merely necessary for everyone to start believing that Lathander was actually Amaunator? Or is it one of those things where it could have happened the latter way, but it would have required a lot more belief than would feasibly have been able to be brought to bear on that task due to the hole in the donut-shape?
    Last edited by Coidzor; 2013-10-05 at 04:43 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
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  2. - Top - End - #782
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Is there a way for crystal spheres to form, either naturally or artificially, that doesn't involve overdeities? If their isn't, then where did Aboleths come from?
    Awesome Rob Roy Avatar by Pink Haired August!
    Quote Originally Posted by flabort View Post
    Alright. I have officially found a reason to run around, screaming "The end is near here!", with only a loincloth and a crudely painted sign as my possessions.
    Mind=asplode from the awesome of that image.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    <snip>
    Similar interests, no rubbing shoulders necessary, patsies to promote his own agenda. Not necessary, merely available, convenient and requiring little thought. And to head off the obvious future questions, no, under no circumstances would he be interested in allying with another power ever again, even were those same conditions to be met, excepting Haask, who barely counts. Why? Because WotC specifically said so.
    Well Haask, Voice of Hargut isn't a power right? He's not even really up to the level of the other uniques. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't he more of a powerful minion? 3 adventurers were able to defeat what would become part of him (powerful ones but still). So that could explain the exception. Ghaunadaur isn't averse to minions.

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    A true racial deity embodies the essence of his or her race. What it means to be an elf/orc/gnome/what have you would die with them.
    Fascinating. Can another god "become" a racial diety or does he have to actually create the race?

    What is a "race" in dnd fluff anyways? Are demons as a whole a race? Are Tanar'ri and Obyriths separate races? Are Bar-lguras and Chasme separate races?

    If a non-diety unique became the patron of a particular race (for example, Yeenoghu is the demonic patron of gnolls) became a diety, would they become the racial diety for that race? This seemed to happen to Lolth...but she was a god previously so that kind of muddies things a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    No.
    Sorry for the obvious follow-up but why is this?

  4. - Top - End - #784
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    So some of the events may have happened in some form within some cyrstal sphere or the other from a certain point of view? Possibly with some adjustment so that it could not be gibberish to three-dimensional meat popsicles.
    Indeed. For instance, in Realmspace, it really was Selune and Shar and Mystryl and Chauntea and Tempus and yada yada yada all that stuff actually happened.

    So for example, Gruumsh and Corellon Larethian know what the real beef between the two of them is, the myths just may or may not have any bearing on what happened between them or have been a convenient explanation after the fact for conflicts between the races under their patronage.
    Yup. And considering the incredible scope of said beef, I'd say it's fairly relevant.

    Hm. On a semi-related note. Did Lathander have to actually be Amaunator for what happened to him to happen or was it merely necessary for everyone to start believing that Lathander was actually Amaunator? Or is it one of those things where it could have happened the latter way, but it would have required a lot more belief than would feasibly have been able to be brought to bear on that task due to the hole in the donut-shape?
    I don't follow 4E canon, so if you're referring to Lathander becoming Amaunator I have nothing to say on the matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Roy View Post
    Is there a way for crystal spheres to form, either naturally or artificially, that doesn't involve overdeities? If their isn't, then where did Aboleths come from?
    They form naturally as well, yes. No known method can make or break a crystal sphere.

    Quote Originally Posted by 123456789blaaa View Post
    Well Haask, Voice of Hargut isn't a power right? He's not even really up to the level of the other uniques. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't he more of a powerful minion? 3 adventurers were able to defeat what would become part of him (powerful ones but still). So that could explain the exception. Ghaunadaur isn't averse to minions.
    He was a power at some point (cf. "Seven Lost Gods").

    Fascinating. Can another god "become" a racial diety or does he have to actually create the race?
    Probably needs to create the race.

    What is a "race" in dnd fluff anyways?
    Human, elf, dwarf, etc. etc. etc.

    Are demons as a whole a race?
    No.

    Are Tanar'ri and Obyriths separate races?
    No.

    Are Bar-lguras and Chasme separate races?
    That would require them to be races at all, which broadly speaking they're not. Assuming that they are, they're not the same "race."

    If a non-diety unique became the patron of a particular race (for example, Yeenoghu is the demonic patron of gnolls) became a diety, would they become the racial diety for that race?
    No.

    This seemed to happen to Lolth...but she was a god previously so that kind of muddies things a bit.
    Lolth was also the custodian of those elves that she led astray, and the success of Eilistraee demonstrates that the "drow essence" isn't a thing that Lolth can command fully.

    Sorry for the obvious follow-up but why is this?
    Why would it be otherwise?
    Last edited by afroakuma; 2013-10-05 at 05:11 PM.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    <snip>
    No.



    No.



    That would require them to be races at all, which broadly speaking they're not. Assuming that they are, they're not the same "race."



    No.
    So are the various demons part of any races at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Lolth was also the custodian of those elves that she led astray, and the success of Eilistraee demonstrates that the "drow essence" isn't a thing that Lolth can command fully.
    So is being a "custodian" of a race different than being a patron of a race? How so?

    Are there any other "custodians" of other races? How do you become one?

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Why would it be otherwise?
    Well gods gain dominion over various "things" like pestilience, worms, elves etc. Demons are a "thing" so why wouldn't a god be able to gain dominion over them?

    I know that this is probably flawed in thirty different ways but it was my general assumption as to why I assumed "possible god of demonkind" was the default.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Quote Originally Posted by 123456789blaaa View Post
    So are the various demons part of any races at all?
    Not particularly.

    So is being a "custodian" of a race different than being a patron of a race? How so?
    I hate you and I want you to not only know it, but to feel it deeply. Not really, frustrating though you may be.

    Lolth was the bloody PATRON of bloody DROW-TO-BE. PATRON. Happy?

    Well gods gain dominion over various "things" like pestilience, worms, elves etc. Demons are a "thing" so why wouldn't a god be able to gain dominion over them?
    Existence is a "thing." The Outlands is a "thing." Can't be god of those, either.
    Last edited by afroakuma; 2013-10-05 at 05:54 PM.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Not particularly.



    I hate you and I want you to not only know it, but to feel it deeply.

    Lolth was the bloody PATRON of bloody DROW-TO-BE. PATRON. Happy?



    Existence is a "thing." The Outlands is a "thing." Can't be god of those, either.
    Sorry man . DnD terminology can be quite specific at times so I didn't know...

    Anyways I have some more questions but I think I'll leave the thread for a bit so you can cool down.

    EDIT: White text fake out! The "hate you" probably should have tipped me off .

    Anyways, questions:

    Do you think some Troglodyte tribes might worship Juiblex? He's similar to their racial deity at least...

    Why do you think the souls of corrupted SSN's are held in Dis?

    What PRC's could you see a worshipper of Demogorgon or Dagon taking (besides the Thralls)?

    What makes Lolths case different than the general one I proposed in this question?:

    If a non-diety unique became the patron of a particular race (for example, Yeenoghu is the demonic patron of gnolls) became a diety, would they become the racial diety for that race?
    What are the rules for what you can become a god of?
    Last edited by 123456789blaaa; 2013-10-05 at 07:31 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #788
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Quote Originally Posted by 123456789blaaa View Post
    Do you think some Troglodyte tribes might worship Juiblex? He's similar to their racial deity at least...
    They're not particularly similar. Not out of the question, though.

    Why do you think the souls of corrupted SSN's are held in Dis?
    "SSNs?"

    What PRC's could you see a worshipper of Demogorgon or Dagon taking (besides the Thralls)?
    I have an exhaustive memory for fluff, not crunch. Any of various aquatic, evil and/or fear-based ones, I guess?

    What makes Lolths case different than the general one I proposed in this question?
    1) Lolth remade the drow to separate them from their origins
    2) Lolth is a racial god and always was, like Rillifane, Deep Sashelas, Fenmarel, Tarsellis, etc. who are subordinate to Corellon, the originator of elvenkind, but each guardians of a particular elvish subgroup and their way of existence. In short, she already (as Araushnee) possessed the needed credentials. No other demon will ever accomplish that.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    They're not particularly similar. Not out of the question, though.
    Mostly I was thinking of Laogzed having the slime domain. He's an oozing toad-lizard that exists to eat. he doesn't care about his own followers and only wishes to devour. Normally beings don't want to worship Juiblex because their aren't many benefits but it doesn't really seem that different from worshipping Laogzed.

    EDIT; and most importantly, they are both stinky.

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    "SSNs?"
    <snip>
    Whoops, sorry. I'm talking about the Shadow Sun Ninja PRC from Tome of Battle. I've been toying around with it a lot recently and have gotten used to using that abbreviation. It's a PRC based around the balance of light and dark (they can channel negative and positive energy in alternating rounds, can blind people and shroud themselves in darkness etc). They gain an ability at 10th level that allows them to become a pseudo-vampiric creature. In that state they can drain levels by sacrificing Con. If their Con goes to 0 then they turn into evil vampires and their soul goes to the IRon City of Dis. I'm not really familiar with Dispater so I'm not sure why this would happen. Do you have any ideas? He doesn't have much fluff about light and darkness (or vampires) that I can remember...

    In EttFR the Blood Queens realm is in Baator. I'm assuming this is your personal canon? What was your reason for making this decision? The Blood Queen always seemed a bit above things like that to me (heck, her just brushing the Prime created the aboleths).

    What amazing places on the planes would you recommend for a planar tourist?

    Can you describe Zuggytmoy in terms of her personality?
    Last edited by 123456789blaaa; 2013-10-06 at 08:08 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #790
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Quote Originally Posted by 123456789blaaa View Post
    Do you have any ideas? He doesn't have much fluff about light and darkness (or vampires) that I can remember...
    Sounds like they just picked a tough place to get a soul back from.

    In EttFR the Blood Queens realm is in Baator. I'm assuming this is your personal canon?
    No, she's actually got a nameless divine realm on Minauros.

    What amazing places on the planes would you recommend for a planar tourist?
    Refer to your friendly neighborhood Planar Handbook.

    Can you describe Zuggytmoy in terms of her personality?
    Zuggtmoy is a relentless and ambitious demoness obsessed with growing her power and seizing strength from her peers. She knows that she's on the back foot and it rankles her immensely.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    <snip>
    No, she's actually got a nameless divine realm on Minauros.
    Huh...that seems really weird. Does she personally rule it? if not, who does?

    And since Elder Evil's have anti-divine properties, how does she have a divine realm?

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Refer to your friendly neighborhood Planar Handbook.
    Perhaps you meant the Manual of the Planes?

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Zuggtmoy is a relentless and ambitious demoness obsessed with growing her power and seizing strength from her peers. She knows that she's on the back foot and it rankles her immensely.
    So...ambitious and angry. Basically like almost every other demon .

    You managed to tie in Orcus's personality fairly well to his portfolio. Any conjecture as to why Zuggtmoy chose hers?

    Is there any relationship between humans and doppelgangers?

    What are the rules for what you can become a god of (if you don't want to answer this for whatever reason, that's fine. However, I'm not sure if you just missed it)?
    Last edited by 123456789blaaa; 2013-10-06 at 11:22 AM.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Quote Originally Posted by 123456789blaaa View Post
    Huh...that seems really weird. Does she personally rule it? if not, who does?
    Aboleths believe she frequently travels the planes and is rarely there, but as a divine realm it's definitely her property.

    And since Elder Evil's have anti-divine properties, how does she have a divine realm?
    She's not an Elder Evilfrom the book of the same name, she's an elder evilaboleth term used to describe the ancient and inchoate beings they venerate.

    Perhaps you meant the Manual of the Planes?
    No, I meant the Planar Handbook, the later sourcebook geared more towards players.

    So...ambitious and angry. Basically like almost every other demon .

    You managed to tie in Orcus's personality fairly well to his portfolio. Any conjecture as to why Zuggtmoy chose hers?
    It's not really a choice (and she may be of the older generation of tanar'ri, anyway, it's not specified). Ambition is very much linked to her fungal nature, however - she sows spores everywhere and sees in everything the potential to decay and succumb to fungal takeover, and her great hate is seeing anything else get there first (Juiblex, Lolth, etc.) so she makes plans which often expose her impatience (the Temple of Elemental Evil was detected because she allowed its power to expand far too fast).

    Is there any relationship between humans and doppelgangers?
    Not particularly.

    What are the rules for what you can become a god of
    Fine, O Persistent One. Know that I miss nothing. If I don't answer a question it's because I don't want to.

    There are no rules. Go make up a god of whatever you bloody please. But there's not and will never be a god of demons, nor of devils, archons, eladrin, modrons, slaad, yugoloths, guardinals, rilmani, angels, etc. etc. etc. canonically.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    There are no rules. Go make up a god of whatever you bloody please. But there's not and will never be a god of demons, nor of devils, archons, eladrin, modrons, slaad, yugoloths, guardinals, rilmani, angels, etc. etc. etc. canonically.
    Here's my own personal idea (not based on anything) of why that is. Any of those given outsiders are exemplars. Being the god(dess) of any of them would boil down to being the god of CE, or NG, or whatever. Which doesn't happen, because the alignment gives you your perspective on what you use your portfolio for. I could think of a LG version of a god of fungus, for example. Same with the different outer planes: you are the god(dess) of one of those, you are the god of the alignment itself. Which doesn't work.
    LGBTA+itP

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    It seems one part too nebulous because alignment and the plane and all that metaphysical jazz and another part the exemplars would never stand for it.
    Spoiler: Warning: Potentially Toxic Levels of Stupid contained within.
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    Demons can't even work out a Prince of Demons and hate the idea of something having that kind of authority over them, as I understand it, so anything trying to do that would set themselves up as one of the few things that demons could get over themselves to gang up on. Primus and Asmodeus would almost certainly have some words for anything trying to set itself up as god of them, Baalphegor might be more to worry about though. Most of the celestials seem like they'd just straight up laugh at your attempt until it failed from the ridicule. And the Slaad... Albatross Purple Seventy?

    Maybe the Eladrin might pretend to humor someone who managed to get them out of their predicament with the chillens, but they'd probably still gank 'em if it seemed like they'd have any chance of success.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Why does the word "purple" (often followed by a number) crop up so often whenever you or someone else plays an impression of slaadi gibberish while, say, "violet" has never been used to my memory? Is there anything inherently chaotic/slaadi-attracting about it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elitarismo View Post
    Complaining about martial characters dipping many different classes is like complaining that the sun is hot.
    Quote Originally Posted by ArqArturo View Post
    When I first wanted to build a gish, I wanted to be the guy that threw fireballs, lightning bolts, wore spiked fullplate and reigned death and destruction (…)

    So I rolled a cleric.

    To everyone i played with in a certain campaign: i'm sorry i've dropped off without a warning, but a sudden case of twin daughers is a very solid reason, trust me.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Not really. There's just this word of two dozen words or so that people just seem to think are inherently fun and random for some reason.

    Fish bicycle banana monkey.
    "Après la vie - le mort, après le mort, la vie de noveau.
    Après le monde - le gris; après le gris - le monde de nouveau.
    "

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    But violet victorious vitrolic whenever vary vivid viverra? Seriously, people, viverra kicks all kinds of ass.
    Last edited by Lord Haart; 2013-10-06 at 04:07 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elitarismo View Post
    Complaining about martial characters dipping many different classes is like complaining that the sun is hot.
    Quote Originally Posted by ArqArturo View Post
    When I first wanted to build a gish, I wanted to be the guy that threw fireballs, lightning bolts, wore spiked fullplate and reigned death and destruction (…)

    So I rolled a cleric.

    To everyone i played with in a certain campaign: i'm sorry i've dropped off without a warning, but a sudden case of twin daughers is a very solid reason, trust me.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Because purple monkey dishwasher.

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    No really, that's the answer.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    It seems one part too nebulous because alignment and the plane and all that metaphysical jazz and another part the exemplars would never stand for it.
    Spoiler: Warning: Potentially Toxic Levels of Stupid contained within.
    Show

    Demons can't even work out a Prince of Demons and hate the idea of something having that kind of authority over them, as I understand it, so anything trying to do that would set themselves up as one of the few things that demons could get over themselves to gang up on. Primus and Asmodeus would almost certainly have some words for anything trying to set itself up as god of them, Baalphegor might be more to worry about though. Most of the celestials seem like they'd just straight up laugh at your attempt until it failed from the ridicule. And the Slaad... Albatross Purple Seventy?

    Maybe the Eladrin might pretend to humor someone who managed to get them out of their predicament with the chillens, but they'd probably still gank 'em if it seemed like they'd have any chance of success.
    Plus, last time somebody tried something similar (the Queen of Chaos) the Abyss itself betrayed the Obyrinths and supported their rebellious Tanar'ri slaves. Since then, the souls falling to the Abyss end spontaneously becoming Tanar'ri. Nothing could say "no, thanks, f*ck you" more clearly than that.

    And the closest thing to a Prince of the Abyss is Demogorgon, who has sprouted two heads and keeps conspiring against himself...I think that shows how much the Abyss would hate a strong, unified rule and would react against that.

    In Baator, on the other hand, the change was forced by the Baatezu, and the plane keeps trying to produce Baatorians instead of Baatezu.
    Last edited by Clistenes; 2013-10-06 at 05:43 PM.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    So is it more common for racial deities to import their charges when they find a new crystal sphere to move in to or do they just create their races in each new crystal sphere if it's new and young enough for such things?
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    So is it more common for racial deities to import their charges when they find a new crystal sphere to move in to or do they just create their races in each new crystal sphere if it's new and young enough for such things?
    Generally they have to import them, since a god cannot influence a crystal sphere where his or her faith has not been brought. If a god is invited to the sphere by the overpower, they may very well create new members of their race there.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Generally they have to import them, since a god cannot influence a crystal sphere where his or her faith has not been brought. If a god is invited to the sphere by the overpower, they may very well create new members of their race there.
    So, say, Gruumsh would have to use some kind of proxy that is not himself, a power, an aspect of himself, or an avatar of himself or get some Orcs to travel there via spelljammer/the plane of shadow/??? or something in order to colonize/seed the new crystal sphere with orcs?

    What would be the most likely way for a power that wanted to seed themselves into a virgin crystal sphere to get their racial followers there if there's no overpower to suck up to or the overpower isn't the kind that powers can/will talk to? Get a wizard/cleric minion to open up a gate and herd members of the race through to various points around the crystal sphere that are suitable for them? Create new members of their race from scratch and then gate them in using the power's own magical abilities?
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    So, say, Gruumsh would have to use some kind of proxy that is not himself, a power, an aspect of himself, or an avatar of himself or get some Orcs to travel there via spelljammer/the plane of shadow/??? or something in order to colonize/seed the new crystal sphere with orcs?
    Yes. A bearer of true faith.

    What would be the most likely way for a power that wanted to seed themselves into a virgin crystal sphere to get their racial followers there if there's no overpower to suck up to or the overpower isn't the kind that powers can/will talk to?
    Normally they don't bother if there's an overpower present that doesn't want to deal with them - overpowers decide what goes on in their spheres, and if it's uninterested in dealing with you, it's highly advisable not to piss it off. In cases where there is no overpower present, it depends on the race; orcs, elves, beholders and mind flayers have seen great success with spelljammers, while more grounded magical means like planar travel might be preferable for others, as when the Mulhorandi fled to Faerun.

    Create new members of their race from scratch and then gate them in using the power's own magical abilities?
    Never ever this one. It's not useful. Spelljamming or stationary intra-Prime portals are definitely the best methods. Gods don't like directly intervening to do it, though, since those already controlling faithful in the sphere will note the intrusion and can take hefty measures to crush an invasion. Individuals are less troublesome than an invasive group and give the native powers time to assess the interloper's portfolio. In most cases a god similar to the interloper will treat with the foreign deity and offer to cover divine power grants for its followers in the sphere; if rebuffed, it's likely that the native powers will simply cut off the invading faithful from their god's divine power.

  24. - Top - End - #804
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Aboleths believe she frequently travels the planes and is rarely there, but as a divine realm it's definitely her property.
    Why did she only create new life forms when she brushed against the Prime?

    Is she a god? Can non-deific beings have divine realms?

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    <snip>
    No, I meant the Planar Handbook, the later sourcebook geared more towards players.
    Okay so the chapters are: races, classes and feats, prestige classes, equipment and magic items, spells, creatures of the planes, and planar sites. Only the last seems to actually describe places in the planes.

    The subsections in that chapter are Cosmology Overview (which describes the different planes in general), Planar Metropolises, Planar Breaches, and Planar Touchstones. Of those, only the second and last really describe any places a tourist would want to visit. I assume you mean those?

    The reason I thought you might have meant the Manual of the Planes is because it has 3 chapter dedicated wholly to the planes.

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    It's not really a choice (and she may be of the older generation of tanar'ri, anyway, it's not specified). Ambition is very much linked to her fungal nature, however - she sows spores everywhere and sees in everything the potential to decay and succumb to fungal takeover, and her great hate is seeing anything else get there first (Juiblex, Lolth, etc.) so she makes plans which often expose her impatience (the Temple of Elemental Evil was detected because she allowed its power to expand far too fast).
    <snip>
    So when non-uniques ascend, their sphere of influence is picked for them? Can they change it if they want to?

    What is the difference between the older generation of tanar'ri and the newer one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldest View Post
    Here's my own personal idea (not based on anything) of why that is. Any of those given outsiders are exemplars. Being the god(dess) of any of them would boil down to being the god of CE, or NG, or whatever. Which doesn't happen, because the alignment gives you your perspective on what you use your portfolio for. I could think of a LG version of a god of fungus, for example. Same with the different outer planes: you are the god(dess) of one of those, you are the god of the alignment itself. Which doesn't work.
    Yeah this was my working hypothesis before I asked Afro.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    It seems one part too nebulous because alignment and the plane and all that metaphysical jazz and another part the exemplars would never stand for it.
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    Demons can't even work out a Prince of Demons and hate the idea of something having that kind of authority over them, as I understand it, so anything trying to do that would set themselves up as one of the few things that demons could get over themselves to gang up on. Primus and Asmodeus would almost certainly have some words for anything trying to set itself up as god of them, Baalphegor might be more to worry about though. Most of the celestials seem like they'd just straight up laugh at your attempt until it failed from the ridicule. And the Slaad... Albatross Purple Seventy?

    Maybe the Eladrin might pretend to humor someone who managed to get them out of their predicament with the chillens, but they'd probably still gank 'em if it seemed like they'd have any chance of success.
    My question was with the assumption that the latter was discarded. Maybe I didn't make that clear enough?

    I know that the exemplars wouldn't allow anyone to do that. My question was more if such a thing was metaphysically possible by the rules of the setting. This is why I said "theoretically". Practically it's impossible.

    Though...as Clistenes pointed out, the Queen of Chaos was able to (temporarily) unite the demons. Assuming the metaphysics work, would the demons have revolted even sooner if the Queen had become a god of demons or would they have not minded? Hm.

    Am I just imagining things when I see a ton of similarities between Ugudenk and Urdlen?

    Previously you said that Kyuss might ally with Ugudenk one he was free of the obelisk and brought about the Age of Worms on the Material Plane? How would this work given that Ugudenk is basically mindless tendril of his layer interested only in eating?

  25. - Top - End - #805
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Quote Originally Posted by 123456789blaaa View Post
    Why did she only create new life forms when she brushed against the Prime?
    "Only?" I don't follow.

    Is she a god? Can non-deific beings have divine realms?
    She is now. She got sucked into the Great Wheel's reality. She's not really happy about that but it brings her down too much to consider trying to get back out.

    Okay so I'm going to drastically overanalyze here instead of getting to the point.
    Yes I mean Planar Touchstones. They tend to be fairly interesting places. I'm not saying only touchstones, nor that they're all interesting or an exhaustive list or any other blasted misreading you might have. I am saying quite plainly that I am not interested in answering such an open-ended question with my own work or research and there's a big convenient list right there. That should be a thorough enough answer.

    So when non-uniques ascend, their sphere of influence is picked for them? Can they change it if they want to?
    It's not a question of "picking." It's simply linked to the nature of the beast, such as it is. The only way to "change" is to steal another's titles, and even then, you can't abandon the ones you already have; they have to be claimed from you. Bechard was formerly the demon lord of storms, but when he was cast down he lost that title to whomever I'm just too lazy to check the list right now. And I really don't want to see any follow-up questions to this answer unless they specifically do not inquire about what makes such-and-such fit portfolio X and not portfolio Y.

    What is the difference between the older generation of tanar'ri and the newer one?
    The original generation didn't arise from mortal souls, but from mortal evils, fears, cruelties, the many darknesses that bubbled and seethed on the Prime. They tended towards more primal spheres of influence, more raw and inhuman forms, and a wholly alien nature. The two major exemplars of this generation are Demogorgon and Juiblex. Later generations are much more human, humanoid or otherwise related to the Prime, are typically born of mortal souls, and usually cleave to the more common varieties of tanar'ri that were shaped in the early days from fundamental sin, cruelty and despair - succubi from lust, alkiliths from sloth, etc.

    I know that the exemplars wouldn't allow anyone to do that. My question was more if such a thing was metaphysically possible by the rules of the setting. This is why I said "theoretically". Practically it's impossible.
    No, it's not. You can't have it as a portfolio; nobody does. It's impossible to take on "demons" as a portfolio, because if you try you'll just end up with "evil" or any other number of variations. Portfolios need specificity, applicability and relevance, and that's relevance to the lives of worshipers. Demons aren't relevant to the vast majority of people who aren't already dead or traveling the Abyss, and their relevance in every instance is pretty specific - the agency of evil. For good and neutral beings, this would be like believing in a god of getting hit by trains driven by psychopaths out to kill people. For evil beings, it would be like worshiping the god of deliberately hitting people with trains in an attempt to kill them. Except that to be god of demons would require more specific recognition - the god of being hit by a GE Evolution Series train. I don't know about you, but if I'm about to be hit by a train I don't think "Curses, the Evolution Series strikes again!" but rather "OH CRAP IT'S A TRAIN."

    Since they're not relevant in the lives of potential worshipers and attempting to design a portfolio around them would suffer either from insufficient specificity ("fine then fro, what about if I said god of FIENDS???") or insufficient applicability. More likely both. Attempting to become god of demons sees you die of irrelevance or sees your portfolio expand to cover something more relevant, applicable and specific.

    Though...as Clistenes pointed out, the Queen of Chaos was able to (temporarily) unite the demons. Assuming the metaphysics work, would the demons have revolted even sooner if the Queen had become a god of demons or would they have not minded? Hm.
    See immediately above. You cannot be god of demons.

    Am I just imagining things when I see a ton of similarities between Ugudenk and Urdlen?
    Yup.

    Previously you said that Kyuss might ally with Ugudenk one he was free of the obelisk
    Why did I do that. I shouldn't have done that. It caused still more Kyuss questions.

    and brought about the Age of Worms on the Material Plane? How would this work given that Ugudenk is basically mindless tendril of his layer interested only in eating?
    Telegram for Mr. U. Gudenk

    Mr. U. Gudenk
    King
    Squirming
    The Writhing Realm

    Dear Mr. Gudenk

    It has come to my attention that you are an infinitely long wormlike creature with a fondness for squirming, devouring large things and providing self-insurance policies against return invitations to social functions. As I myself am a great fan of things that squirm and giving polite society the bird, I felt that we share a great deal in common and would get along famously.

    I write to you today because I have recently come into possession of a most marvelous my own divine form and freedom from that accursed obelisk. The transaction that yielded this splendid find came complete with a large tract of land in wherever the hell I please, no force on Oerth can stop me now muahahahahaha. I would like to invite you to be my guest at this new estate, from which you and I can take in the sights of thousands of pathetic mortals screaming in terror as the world they knew is devoured and replaced by an empty apocalyptic wasteland filled with undead monstrosities fueled by alien worms.

    Enclosed is a train ticket should you wish to take me up on my offer. Be at gate 31, Right Next To You Station at precisely Oh How About Now.

    Cordially yours,
    Kyuss
    Herald
    Age of Worms

  26. - Top - End - #806
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Telegram for Mr. U. Gudenk

    Mr. U. Gudenk
    King
    Squirming
    The Writhing Realm

    Dear Mr. Gudenk

    It has come to my attention that you are an infinitely long wormlike creature with a fondness for squirming, devouring large things and providing self-insurance policies against return invitations to social functions. As I myself am a great fan of things that squirm and giving polite society the bird, I felt that we share a great deal in common and would get along famously.

    I write to you today because I have recently come into possession of a most marvelous my own divine form and freedom from that accursed obelisk. The transaction that yielded this splendid find came complete with a large tract of land in wherever the hell I please, no force on Oerth can stop me now muahahahahaha. I would like to invite you to be my guest at this new estate, from which you and I can take in the sights of thousands of pathetic mortals screaming in terror as the world they knew is devoured and replaced by an empty apocalyptic wasteland filled with undead monstrosities fueled by alien worms.

    Enclosed is a train ticket should you wish to take me up on my offer. Be at gate 31, Right Next To You Station at precisely Oh How About Now.

    Cordially yours,
    Kyuss
    Herald
    Age of Worms
    This is beautiful. Sigged.
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  27. - Top - End - #807
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    I'm hoping you can help with with Kaorti. I'm roughly familiar with Kaorti ecology and far realms stuff, but there is one thing that bothers me about their societies.

    They make thralls to gain a workforce. I know about the usual mindlessness/slavery thing, but that's not what I'm after. Okay, so do those thralls have to live inside their cacoons/shells/caves or whatever due to the material plane vulnerability? Or do they have to live outside of them because the insides aren't suitable for material-plane creatures?

    Basically I can't find anything that specifies whether Kaorti thralls are actualy Kaorti -- massively changed physiology, eating themselves, etc, or just eviler brain-washed but mostly normal versions of their previous selves.

  28. - Top - End - #808
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Quote Originally Posted by VisitingDaGulag View Post
    They make thralls to gain a workforce. I know about the usual mindlessness/slavery thing, but that's not what I'm after. Okay, so do those thralls have to live inside their cacoons/shells/caves or whatever due to the material plane vulnerability? Or do they have to live outside of them because the insides aren't suitable for material-plane creatures?
    Thralls do not possess the Material Vulnerability trait. Only true kaorti do.

    Basically I can't find anything that specifies whether Kaorti thralls are actualy Kaorti -- massively changed physiology, eating themselves, etc, or just eviler brain-washed but mostly normal versions of their previous selves.
    Sure you can. Fiend Folio, p.109 tells you. A humanoid subjected to Vile Transformation becomes a kaorti. A nonhumanoid becomes a thrall. Thralls are not kaorti; they're misshapen, mutated servitor beasts and heavy minions for kaorti to use as extensions of the cyst. Ex-humanoids acquire all kaorti traits (and so have Material Vulnerability), while ex-nonhumanoids acquire the fiendish template, which does not have Material Vulnerability.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    This isn't really a question but thanks for talking about bags of devouring either in this thread or an earlier one. As it made me track down the ecology article in dragon 271. I now have a new campaign set piece.
    Level 3 feat: improved monster class pimping

    RIP North_Ranger you will be missed

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread III!

    Glad to help.

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