Would you want a Cugel like PC in your game?

[Agrippa]

Now I'm not sure how many of you know, but one of the early inspirations for thief class, which later became the rogue was Jack Vance's Cugel the Clever. Of course he also mistreated just about everyone around him, including a young woman who got exiled from her village because of him. He then sold her as a sex slave to a gang of bandits for safe passage and a raft. That's among the least of his sins. So the question is this, would you want or allow a Cugel-like player character in a campaign you run? How about as one of your PC's party members.

[Coidzor]

Flashman and his ilk, which Cugel seems to resemble, only darker, would belong more as part of the cast of recurring NPCs, likely in the rogue's gallery of not-necessarily-kill-on-sight types.

[Vitruviansquid]

As far as I can tell from Wikipedia's description, I'd love to have a character like Cugel as one of my PC's. By this, I mean, I'd like to see a character with his share of moral and professional failures and a consistent, well-thought out personality that colors his perceptions of the world.

[Killer Angel]

Now I'm not sure how many of you know, but one of the early inspirations for thief class, which later became the rogue was Jack Vance's Cugel the Clever.

I remember that, sometime, Cugel were not so clever... so there should be a chance for revenge. Plus, your campaing can always have its version of Iucounu.

[Talyn]

Not for a second. I don't generally play games with evil PCs, unless they are the ambitiously pragmatic type. The kind of monster you just described is purely villain material, and I would expect my players to put every effort into killing him permanently.

[Dr. Yes]

Definitely. One of my favorite themes in gaming is how muddy the concepts of good and evil can become when you represent people with the full spectrum of real world behaviors and place them in world-changing situations. Having a complete monster save the world is the perfect sort of thing to make you think about absolute versus relative morality.

[Adoendithas]

Possibly, as he becomes a bit less villain-y in the second book. Before that, remember what he did to his first adventuring party: he got the wizard killed to steal his magic items, bribed a cleric with those items to tell the others that their god wanted them to go to the port that Cugel was seeking, then left all but four to die in the desert. I don't think the other players would like that very much, and they'd probably try to get rid of him at the first opportunity.

[LibraryOgre]

In limited doses, sure. Cugel is an amusing character, both for his failures and the creativity of his revenge.

In real life, I'd likely hate him. In fiction? He's fun, though not the only character you ever want to read.

[Nero24200]

Honestly no. Whilst I liked the short stories, I couldn't bring myself to finish the main Jack Vance book series thanks to Cugel. He just came across as an unlikeable character to me who would be a **** for the sake of being a **** rather than any given reason.

So he strikes me as one of those PC's who constantly threatens to PVP, steals part of the loot thinking the other players won't notice and murders innocent NPC's just to take something that he could have easily bought or haggled for.

[Agrippa]

Honestly no. Whilst I liked the short stories, I couldn't bring myself to finish the main Jack Vance book series thanks to Cugel. He just came across as an unlikeable character to me who would be a **** for the sake of being a **** rather than any given reason.

So he strikes me as one of those PC's who constantly threatens to PVP, steals part of the loot thinking the other players won't notice and murders innocent NPC's just to take something that he could have easily bought or haggled for.

I couldn't finish reading about Cugel either. I'd also hate to have him as a PC. I was just wondering how many people agreed with me here.

[Killer Angel]

So he strikes me as one of those PC's who constantly threatens to PVP, steals part of the loot thinking the other players won't notice and murders innocent NPC's just to take something that he could have easily bought or haggled for.

Well, there's a reason it's "Cugel", and not "Cugel and his companions"...

[Mewtarthio]

Cugel's great for dark humor. Outside that context, he's a reprehensible monster. I suspect even Vance felt he may have gone too far at times, since his evilnesd gets severely toned down in the second book. It's probably also worth noting that most of the Cugel stories involve a number of selfish bastards each trying to screw each other over, which really only works if the entire party wants to play like that and doesn't really lend itself to extended campaigns.

[Agrippa]

Cugel's great for dark humor. Outside that context, he's a reprehensible monster. I suspect even Vance felt he may have gone too far at times, since his evilnesd gets severely toned down in the second book. It's probably also worth noting that most of the Cugel stories involve a number of selfish bastards each trying to screw each other over, which really only works if the entire party wants to play like that and doesn't really lend itself to extended campaigns.

To be honest even though I like dark humor, I feel that Cugel is just too far for me. Now Call Me Fitz is just fine with me. But that's why I asked this question in the first place.