League of Legends LII: Sin of the Blind Monk

[Antonok]

So I just had an interesting game. It was a 5v5 with some guy who was streaming. Would of been alright but I chose my AP masteries instead of jungle >_>

So long story short, 50 people watching his stream saw probably my worst jungling I've done since I started jungling.

[Laudandus]

Then Veigars cool downs should be increased early-game, according to you.
Mid-game he already has enough problems with most bruisers who have a gap closer and Mercuries threads.

Not to mention that if you use strategy, he becomes useless lategame. Just make sure your casters don't get near him until he has dropped the stun or enough of his combo that he can't one shot you. After that he's dead in the water for enough time already. Why do you think he's almost never played in high elo? Thank Riot that at my Elo (Silver III) I can still play him as a sniper sometimes in ranked. (In normal queu, I stomp with him unless I get camped or hard-countered)


Honestly though, you're right. He does not need mana changes. What should be done is make the stuncage smaller, slightly less cooldown and slightly less range. This would make Veigar more usefull to teamfights in regards to zoning instead of grabbing one person, unleashing your burst upon them and going ''well, I really hope I don't die to the rest of them'' because you can do nothing else but try to walk away and/or flash which with the current amount of gapclosers in the game is pretty much undoable.

Perhaps change his passive from Chalice(which makes me not want to buy that item, even though Athene's is wonderfull on him) to something which would amount to ''After focussing vast amounts of damage, some of it lingers in his body, toughening him for a short duration, with it lessening over time.'' Which would make it easier for him to walk away after his burst yet not make him tanky as he has reasonably high cooldowns.

Veigar has the same problem as Annie/Brand/Viktor/all those champions who are kind of the same, which is that as a burst mage who doesn't have mobility, extreme range, or extreme utility, his numbers need to be so high for him to be balanced that his laning would be absolutely the worst thing to play against.

As is, I just really hate him because I'm super-bad against targeted stuns, which is why I'm glad that no one (especially at high elo) plays him. I always die to the enemy jungler ~level 3 vs Veigar, although I have the same problem against Annie.

I think the best way to fix the interesting parts of Zilean while removing the bad parts is to remake his W and Q. E is one of his more interesting abilities, and his ult is pretty interesting, but his Q is too powerful in lane and his W has the aforementioned resetting-your-best-ability issue.

[Eldariel]

So after trying her on the PBE I have to say Jinx is disgustingly powerful, her DPS is nuts and she has decent zone control with her W and E. Then of course her ult is just a straight up massive damage global finisher, only note is its hitbox is not nearly as wide as say an ezreal or ashe ult, but it moves much faster than either once it gets moving.

Sounds like Draven.

[Hullabaloo]

Almost 20, so looking to get some TierIII runes. Currently have about 18k IP saved up, and 400 RP somehow. I have no set role, just trying alot of different characters. My go to right now is which ever support is on the free rotation, and mainly stay away from Mid. I have played very little Jung or Top, so will be playing that a fair bit to check it out

Ive read that general good all around ones are

Yellow, Greater Seal of Armor. Blue Greater Glyph of Magic Resist. Red, Greater Mark of AD. I've read a bit about people who get the 1 Crit chance rune, which I think is a fun idea for early game, which color would that be best in? No clue on Quints. Am I on the right general track? I plan on throwing $10-20 at the game to get a few champs. Thinking Jax (popped my LoL cherry, and had fun with him) and Thresh (my fav support so far), and keep trying some to see what i like.



Also, thanks for the info Reinboom, I played my first game then spent a few mind trying to figure out how I messed up my res:)

[zmasterofjersey]

Almost 20, so looking to get some TierIII runes. Currently have about 18k IP saved up, and 400 RP somehow. I have no set role, just trying alot of different characters. My go to right now is which ever support is on the free rotation, and mainly stay away from Mid. I have played very little Jung or Top, so will be playing that a fair bit to check it out

Ive read that general good all around ones are

Yellow, Greater Seal of Armor. Blue Greater Glyph of Magic Resist. Red, Greater Mark of AD. I've read a bit about people who get the 1 Crit chance rune, which I think is a fun idea for early game, which color would that be best in? No clue on Quints. Am I on the right general track? I plan on throwing $10-20 at the game to get a few champs. Thinking Jax (popped my LoL cherry, and had fun with him) and Thresh (my fav support so far), and keep trying some to see what i like.



Also, thanks for the info Reinboom, I played my first game then spent a few mind trying to figure out how I messed up my res:)

Crit red will give you the most for a single rune besides a quintessence.

The best of each color to get in my opinion are
Red: flat AD, flat arpen, flat mpen, hybrid pen, and attack speed.
Yellow: flat armor,flat mana regen
Blue: flat or scaling magic resist (your choice here) flat ap or ap/level (your choice again)
Quints:flat ad, flat ap, movement speed.

You wont have enough for all of these runes, you just have to get what you can that will work for the most champions and get the specialized ones later.

[Antonok]

Almost 20, so looking to get some TierIII runes. Currently have about 18k IP saved up, and 400 RP somehow. I have no set role, just trying alot of different characters. My go to right now is which ever support is on the free rotation, and mainly stay away from Mid. I have played very little Jung or Top, so will be playing that a fair bit to check it out

Ive read that general good all around ones are

Yellow, Greater Seal of Armor. Blue Greater Glyph of Magic Resist. Red, Greater Mark of AD. I've read a bit about people who get the 1 Crit chance rune, which I think is a fun idea for early game, which color would that be best in? No clue on Quints. Am I on the right general track? I plan on throwing $10-20 at the game to get a few champs. Thinking Jax (popped my LoL cherry, and had fun with him) and Thresh (my fav support so far), and keep trying some to see what i like.



Also, thanks for the info Reinboom, I played my first game then spent a few mind trying to figure out how I messed up my res:)

You get 400 free RP when you hit like lvl 5 so thats where that came from.

And yea, you have the general idea on a good set of starter runes, armor yellows, Magic Resist blues, AD Reds, and movespeed quints are good. Should cost you around 7600 IP total for it if my math serves me correctly.

[Winthur]

Crit red will give you the most for a single rune besides a quintessence.

The best of each color to get in my opinion are
Red: flat AD, flat arpen, flat mpen, hybrid pen, and attack speed.
Yellow: flat armor,flat mana regen
Blue: flat or scaling magic resist (your choice here) flat ap or ap/level (your choice again)
Quints:flat ad, flat ap, movement speed.

You wont have enough for all of these runes, you just have to get what you can that will work for the most champions and get the specialized ones later.

To expand on this post:

Note that in the current meta, magic penetration marks have been rendered somewhat obsolete by hybrid penetration marks because almost all casters enjoy using autoattacks for harass purposes making their laning phases slightly stronger while not detracting much from their late game damage output. However, the difference isn't that great and hybrid penetration marks are extremely costly at 820 IP per rune.

I, myself, run Hybrid Pen marks on every support with any sort of poke damage that doesn't scale much with AD (so not Thresh), which includes Zyra, Sona and Lulu. Auto harass is very underrated on supports and these runes can really help win a trade.

The runes you should definitely prioritize and buy them first are Armor yellows and Magic Resist blues. They're pretty much the best, most universal runes around. They allow you to not get destroyed in trades in lane and can correct some positional mistakes. They're also useful throughout the whole game. Armor yellows also make you able to jungle without killing yourself. Most players run those runes on the majority of their runepages.

I wouldn't buy flat AP blues or if I did, I'd buy like a combination with AP/lvls, such as 4x flat AP and 5x AP/lvl or some such. AP/lvl blues outscale flat AP pretty fast and unlock a better late game especially if Deathcap is involved. Still I wouldn't prioritize AP blues, they're not nearly as universal while being more expensive than the Magic Resist runes.

If you like most people have only 2 pages and are only starting out you can get by with just a generic AD and a generic AP page, which will look like:
AD reds, Armor yellows, Magic resist blues, AD quints
and
M.Pen or Hybrid Pen reds, Armor yellows, Magic resist blues, AP quints

Notably you don't have to buy 9 runes of the same type for every runepage so you only have to buy 1 set of Armor and Magic resist runes and you're set for life.

[toasty]

Rewind is the biggest thing about bombs that is dumb, so I'm really confused by you projecting it all onto bombs instead of Rewind.

Because bombs are dumb and dont revive people. W makes you revive faster.

[Winthur]

Because bombs are dumb and dont revive people. W makes you revive faster.

A bomb is a bad choice for close range combat.

[Godskook]

Because bombs are dumb and dont revive people. W makes you revive faster.

You have that backwards. R CD is so long because of W; in essence, W makes you revive slower.

[toasty]

You have that backwards. R CD is so long because of W; in essence, W makes you revive slower.

You haven't played 40% CDR Blue buff level 16 zilean.

[Winthur]

You haven't played 40% CDR Blue buff level 16 zilean.

Yeah, and that's how I got out of Silver II :3

[toasty]

Yeah, and that's how I got out of Silver II :3

I didn't say it was good, I said it was fun, and your ult is on a short CD.

[Siosilvar]

Rune advice:

Yellows are flat armor. Later, you can grab leveled HP runes and use them on bruisers and tanks who build a bunch of resists anyway. Very few of the other ones are worth getting: small amounts of health regen are fairly bad compared to the damage you can absorb with these defensive runes, energy regen is only useful on Kennen, and GP10 sacrifices too much survivability.

Blue are flat or scaling MR, depending on preference. AP and leveled AP are possibilities but definitely not priorities. Some pro players run a few mana regen blues on ADCs like Ezreal and Varus because they don't need much MR in lane and they'll get exploded by an AP late anyway (plus Zed is vogue anyway and doesn't do noticable magic damage).

Reds should just be AD if you're getting one rune page. Everybody likes AD (well, except Karthus). After that, junglers tend to use AS for clear speed and AP characters like HPen. ADCs can use one crit rune if you like, and other ADs usually are better with ArPen than AD but it's not terribly much of a difference until late game.

Quints depend on role. Move speed is a good general choice (especially for jungle and mid), GP10 for most supports, flat HP is pretty strong especially with resists from runes or build, ADCs like 2-3 lifesteal and 0-1 AD quints to sustain and last-hit, and AP quints are the best way to get AP without sacrificing your MR.


Since you mentioned playing support a lot, I'd go:
Armor Yellows
MR/lvl Blues
GP10 or Move Speed Quints
AD or Hpen Reds

In roughly that order.

[Olinser]

Rune advice:

Yellows are flat armor. Later, you can grab leveled HP runes and use them on bruisers and tanks who build a bunch of resists anyway. Very few of the other ones are worth getting: small amounts of health regen are fairly bad compared to the damage you can absorb with these defensive runes, energy regen is only useful on Kennen, and GP10 sacrifices too much survivability.

Blue are flat or scaling MR, depending on preference. AP and leveled AP are possibilities but definitely not priorities. Some pro players run a few mana regen blues on ADCs like Ezreal and Varus because they don't need much MR in lane and they'll get exploded by an AP late anyway (plus Zed is vogue anyway and doesn't do noticable magic damage).

Reds should just be AD if you're getting one rune page. Everybody likes AD (well, except Karthus). After that, junglers tend to use AS for clear speed and AP characters like HPen. ADCs can use one crit rune if you like, and other ADs usually are better with ArPen than AD but it's not terribly much of a difference until late game.

Quints depend on role. Move speed is a good general choice (especially for jungle and mid), GP10 for most supports, flat HP is pretty strong especially with resists from runes or build, ADCs like 2-3 lifesteal and 0-1 AD quints to sustain and last-hit, and AP quints are the best way to get AP without sacrificing your MR.


Since you mentioned playing support a lot, I'd go:
Armor Yellows
MR/lvl Blues
GP10 or Move Speed Quints
AD or Hpen Reds

In roughly that order.

For my support page I run with:

Armor Yellow
MR Blue
Armor Red (mainly until I can unlock a 3rd rune page, because AD and HPen isn't great for all supports)
GP10 Quints

[Winthur]

Armor Red (mainly until I can unlock a 3rd rune page, because AD and HPen isn't great for all supports)

There isn't a single support on whom I would mind having AD runes if I were to play on a budget. HPen runes are more debatable but still p. good.

[toasty]

Singed vs Nasus is really boring.

On the other hand: Singed vs Nasus is funny when lichbane rushing Diana (?) ganks your lane 3 times (not J4, the guy with the lock-down ult when singed has no flash) and you just ult away and laugh as your team takes dragon.

On the other hand: Wither+Creepblock+tower = annoying.

[Godskook]

I told you Thrantar!

[Olinser]

Singed vs Nasus is really boring.

On the other hand: Singed vs Nasus is funny when lichbane rushing Diana (?) ganks your lane 3 times (not J4, the guy with the lock-down ult when singed has no flash) and you just ult away and laugh as your team takes dragon.

On the other hand: Wither+Creepblock+tower = annoying.

Nah, you want boring? Shen vs Zac.

Wet noodle fight, nobody ever dies.

And lichbane Diana is actually pretty decent, because she can stay on top of you with her R very easily (has no cooldown if she hit you with Q before hand), and she can hit most of the lichbane procs.

[toasty]

And lichbane Diana is actually pretty decent, because she can stay on top of you with her R very easily (has no cooldown if she hit you with Q before hand), and she can hit most of the lichbane procs.

yeah but lichbane rush is terrible compared to Abyssal or Hourglass rush. You want your onhit items after you have some other core items. Furthermore, Lichbane rush to camp singed top is a terrible idea. You'll never burst me (its a sustained build) and you'll never be able to catch me because I have a speed boost and you have no hard CC.

Zac v Shen is effectively the same thing as Singed v Nasus.

[zmasterofjersey]

Nah, you want boring? Shen vs Zac.

Wet noodle fight, nobody ever dies.

And lichbane Diana is actually pretty decent, because she can stay on top of you with her R very easily (has no cooldown if she hit you with Q before hand), and she can hit most of the lichbane procs.

Riotplz make pasta Zac.

[Olinser]

Riotplz make pasta Zac.

I feel like they should make Plushie Zac a skin.

[toasty]

Personally I'd like a zac that was all dressed up. Like give him a fancy hat or something. I mean, a blob is inherently hard to dress, but still, that could be kinda cool.

[Olinser]

Personally I'd like a zac that was all dressed up. Like give him a fancy hat or something. I mean, a blob is inherently hard to dress, but still, that could be kinda cool.

I feel like Zac could have a whole line of food-related skins.

Chocolate/Vanilla Pudding Zac.

Jello Zac.

Ice Cream Zac.

Whipped Cream Zac.

Fudge Zac.

Caramel Zac.

[Siosilvar]

AD and HPen isn't great for all supports

There are exactly zero supports that aren't going to harass or all-in at some point in the lane.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Soraka would disagree. Why try to trade when you can just make all the trading your adc does come out positive?
Not that she's in a good enough place anymore to do so, but still.

[Artanis]

Personally I'd like a zac that was all dressed up. Like give him a fancy hat or something. I mean, a blob is inherently hard to dress, but still, that could be kinda cool.

Jello Zac

Ooh! Ooh! BILL COSBY COSTUME!

[Siosilvar]

Soraka would disagree. Why try to trade when you can just make all the trading your adc does come out positive?

Because pushing W and right-clicking aren't mutually exclusive. Last time I played Soraka the enemy Sivir spent the entire game with half a health bar.

[Godskook]

You haven't played 40% CDR Blue buff level 16 zilean.

I'm going to ignore the ignorance involved with you assuming I've never tried one of the old-school champions in the ~2600 normal queue games I've played.

How is that relevant? This isn't a 'skill' thing, this is basic mechanic theory. I just need to look at the kit and go "yup, that's the problem, right there".

Zilean's ult with rewinds on CD(requires you to be alive, which isn't always the case)(requires you to not save rewind for double-bomb, which is your best burst -and- DPS option) gets his ult down to 28-29s. Compare to Kayle's lvl 16 ult at full CDR, which has a flat 36s CD. Zilean's ult seems better, until you realize that there's too many caveats on Zilean's(and death timers are high enough that both ults are up for every 5v5 teamfight regardless), to the point where in practice, he's probably going to take 40-50s to get it back, and even then, they can just hard-code his ult to have a CD similar to Kayle's and do away with Rewind, and his entire kit becomes healthier for the change.

Soraka would disagree. Why try to trade when you can just make all the trading your adc does come out positive?
Not that she's in a good enough place anymore to do so, but still.

Because, fun fact, Soraka can't do that by just pressing W anymore. Hell, she might not be able to do that by autoing and using Q and E too anymore either, depending on the game.

[Legoshrimp]

I'm going to ignore the ignorance involved with you assuming I've never tried one of the old-school champions in the ~2600 normal queue games I've played.

How is that relevant? This isn't a 'skill' thing, this is basic mechanic theory. I just need to look at the kit and go "yup, that's the problem, right there".

Zilean's ult with rewinds on CD(requires you to be alive, which isn't always the case)(requires you to not save rewind for double-bomb, which is your best burst -and- DPS option) gets his ult down to 28-29s. Compare to Kayle's lvl 16 ult at full CDR, which has a flat 36s CD. Zilean's ult seems better, until you realize that there's too many caveats on Zilean's(and death timers are high enough that both ults are up for every 5v5 teamfight regardless), to the point where in practice, he's probably going to take 40-50s to get it back, and even then, they can just hard-code his ult to have a CD similar to Kayle's and do away with Rewind, and his entire kit becomes healthier for the change.



Because, fun fact, Soraka can't do that by just pressing W anymore. Hell, she might not be able to do that by autoing and using Q and E too anymore either, depending on the game.

That is why ryze sucks, if he didn't have built in cdr his cooldowns would be lower.