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  1. - Top - End - #1081
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Australia

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    So, had my first actual 40k game today. 500 points of Tzeentch Daemons against Nurgle Daemons

    Army Lists

    Spoiler
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    Tzeentch

    Herald, ML2, Exalted Locus of Conjuration

    Master of Unreality Warlord Trait, Doombolt Flickering Fire and Precognition.

    10x Horrors, Irridecent Horror Doombolt Flickering Fire
    10x Horrors Firestorm Flickering Fire

    6 Screamers

    3 Flamers

    Nurgle

    Great Unclean One, ML1, Greater gift {Unbreakable Hide}

    Immortal Commander Warlord (I think), Plauge Wind Stream of Corruption

    10 Plauge Bearers
    10 Plauge Bearers

    2 Beast of Nurgle


    Deployment
    Spoiler
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    Purge the Alien, Vanguard Strike.

    I deployed first, flamers in reserve, screamers and horror squads as far forward as they could manage.

    He reserved his GUO and the Beasts for later deep strike. Both plauge bearers went behind cover as much as possible. Sieze the Initiative failed.


    Turn One.
    Spoiler
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    Move everything forward to gain LOS, Screamers do their flyby, 2 failed wounds. Can only get 1 horror squad in range, 2 failed wounds, pass toughness test, 6+ FNP for Plaugebearers #1. I forget to roll warpstorm.

    Plaugebearers #1 moves forward, #2 hides behind cover. He rolls Khornes Wrath on Warp storm, I make all 3 5++ saves on my horrors


    Turn 2
    Spoiler
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    Flamers come in, scatter out of range 8 inches, but don't want to get closer for fear of being assaulted so stay put. Screamers circle 'round for another pass at the plaugebearers, horror squad with herald moves into LOS.

    Roll Warp Ebb (-1 Invo for all daemons), screamers drop 3 more Plaugebearers, Horrors roll poorly, dropping only a single plauge bearer, Pass toughness again, 5+ FNP.

    His GUO comes in middle of the table, Beasts stay in reserve, Plauges shuffle back

    Rolls 12 (Summoned from the warp) on Warp Storm, new squad of plauge bearers, 10 strong deep strike into play, scattering towards ther flamers. Plaugebeares #1 make a decently long chage to assault the screamers, lose 1, but put 2 wounds on, I fail instability by 1, 1 wound counter on a screamer.


    Turn 3

    Spoiler
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    Flamers move into range of the new plauge bearers, Horrors move away from the GUO. Roll Dark Prince Thirsts, lose a Horror, he makes all his saves. Flamers wipe out the plauge bearers that popped in last turn to the last man. Brutal. Yay, First Blood to me! Horrors take a wound off the GUO, he gets 6+FNP. Screamers drop the last Plaugebearer from squand #1.

    Beasts of Nurgle come in middle of the board. GUO moves towards the Herald & Horror squad, Plauge bearers #2 still shuffles around to get out of LOS. He rolls Storm of Fire on warp storm, Tzeentch mercifully tags all 3 of his unengaged units while not touching any of mine! Unfortunately, his aim is terrible and 2 scatter off and the other scatters mostly away but has all wounds saved anyway. GUO drops a Horror with his template shooting attack, 2 invulnerable saves passed.

    GUO makes a charge against the horrors and herald, drops a pair of horrors (who made 4/6 invulnerable saves), they pass instability, then fail morale due to our weapons are useless and fall back 4 inches.

    Sitting at Tzeentch 3 : Nurgle 0 now.


    Turn 4

    Spoiler
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    Screamers position themselves for flyby, horrors back away from GUO and beasts, flamers back away from GUO. Roll Warp is Calm, re-roll for Khornes Wrath, GUO shrugs off the wounds. Horrors and herald roll terribly again, still can't touch the GUO. Screamers don't wound either.

    Beasts move to within 1.01 inches of Flamers, GUO moves towards Horrors, Plauges start moving towards the middle of the board. Rolls Khornes Wrath, but no 6's. Fluffs his charge roll against the flamers so stays put, beasts of Nurgle make their charge and take 3 unsaved wounds from the flamers, putting one on 1 wound. They wipe the flamers in a single round and consilidate towards the herald.

    Sitting at Tzeentch 3 : Nurgle 1 now.


    Turn 5

    Spoiler
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    Same old same old, horrors back away, Roll Warp is calm, re-roll for 12, Summoned from the Warp, a new horror squad arrives on the field. Horrors take a wound off the GUO, give him 5+ FNP, brace for the savaging they are about to recieve next turn.

    Beasts move up, GUO moves up, plauge bearers move towards the new horror squad. He rolls Daemonic Possession, my Irridecent horror takes the hit, fails and becomes a Nurgle herald. GUO and beasts charge the horrors, 3 dead horrors (and a boatload of 5++ saves) later, fail instability again, 2 more wounds. Plauge bearer #2 fails to move into charge range, so just glares evilly at the new horror squad. I pray for the game to end, it doesn't.

    Sitting at Tzeentch 3 : Nurgle 1 now.


    Turn 6

    Spoiler
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    Same old song, Screamers manuever inneffectually, Horrors back away. Roll Warp is calm, reroll for Khornes Wrath, no hits. Horrors take the last wound off 1 of the Beasts, dropping 1 model, but the other still has 4 wounds and it's going to wreak their stuff next phase. Screamers try for a flyby on the GUO, but still nothing.

    GUO moves towards the screamers, plauge bearers can't charge the new horrors, so resume glaring evilly. His new herald moves in for the kill. He rolls Storm of Fire again, GUO shrugs off another wound, tries for his psychic shooting attack, but by Herald says nu-uh and denies, so the GUO charges in CC, dropping a horror and forcing me to bust out some more 5++ saves (5 saves, 2x 6's, 3x 1's, reroll 1's, now 3x 6's, a 5 and a 4, oh yeah!) Fail instability by 1 again, another wound. Remaining Beast wreaks the Horrors stuff and takes their lunch money, 1 left, fail instability and lose the last horror. Game will surely end now.

    Nope. Damn.

    Sitting at Tzeentch 3 : Nurgle 2 now.


    Turn 7

    Spoiler
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    You know the drill, remaining unengaged horrors flee, but not far enough, screamers try for some wounds on the beast of nurgle, but roll exceptionally poorly, not achieving anything. Roll Khornes Wrath, Nurgle Herald and shrugs off his wounds, but the plauge bearers take 2 wounds.

    He moves up the remaining plauge bearers, then rolls punished by the gods, fails instability by 1 on the herald and looses a wound.

    GUO challenges the herald, I make bunch of saves, but not enough, slay the warlord to Him. Boo! 2 Horrors left, the beasts catch the screamers and take a wound off them, I actually pass my instability test so they remain locked in combat, the last plauge bearer squad finlly charge my horrors, but it's too little too late, and they deal a couple of ounds in exchange for 2, I fail instability one last time, remove 3 horrors ang it's GG

    Sitting at Tzeentch 3 : Nurgle 3 now.


    Lessons learned; Don't turn down doombolt against Nurgle, especially if you've only got 1 warp charge. Not being able to reliably wound, even with Str 6 is painful.

    Should have deep struck those horrors into his backfield, would have gotten linebreaker and salvaged a win.

    1 more turn and I was nothing but a memory, despite the scoreline. Still, if the game hadn't gone to turn 7, I would have got a win.

    Daemons have too many special rules, especially for a new player.

    The warpstorm table is actually pretty fun for casual games, but I can see how it would get old fairly quickly, and that it's super bad for anything competative.

    My Tzeentch dice roll far higher than statistical averages would suggest, which is great for making saves, but painful for daemonic instability, especially losing combats at Ld 7.

    This is actually a fairly mentally tiring game, though quite a lot of fun.
    Last edited by Drasius; 2014-02-07 at 04:05 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #1082
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Australia

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    So, with my extensive training done, I took part in our 1250 tourney with my Thousand Sons. One of the guys at the store asked how long I've been playing and thought I was quite the kidder when I told him I played my 1st game 2 days beforehand. Then he realised I was serious and stuck around to give me a hand and watch me play (I asked my opponents if they minded and they were OK with it). Massive thanks to you Percy.

    As mentioned before, Force org had restrictions in place, 1 HQ (except for space wolves, and daemons could take 2 heralds or 1 other), no named characters, min 2 troops, 1 each of Elites/FA/HS, no squadrons of vehicles/monsterous creatures, must fill all slots, can take extra troops to fill out points, 1 dedicated transport only, can't be the same as another choice in your army, no allies, no 'slates, Escalation or Stronghold Assault, no Inquisition or Sisters.

    16 players split into 2 groups over 2 days, game 1 at random, highest points vs next highest for games 2 and 3. Highest points from each group plays of for winner at time convinient to both parties.

    In my group there was Dark Eldar, Dark Angels, Tau, Space Wolves, Imperial Fists, Ultramarine Successor chapter, Necrons which had been completely assembled and painted (to pretty good quality) in 4 days and then me.

    My list;

    Spoiler
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    HQ
    Sorceror, ML3, Terminator Armour, Mark of Tzeentch, Spell Familiar, VotLW, Force Axe

    Troops
    9x Thousand Sons
    9x Thousand Sons

    Elites
    5x Terminators, Mark of Tzeentch, VotLW, Combi Melta and Power Fist on Champion, 2x Power Fists, 1x Pair of Lightning Claws, 3x Combi Melta, Power Sword

    FA
    Heldrake, Baleflamer

    HS
    Forgefiend, Hades Autocannon

    1250 eggzackary


    Games were

    1. Purge/Dawn of War vs Custom marines using Ultra chapter tactics
    2. Crusade (I think)/Hammer and Anvil vs Tau
    3. Relic/Dawn of War vs Dark Eldar

    Game 1:

    Spoiler
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    This guy was fairly new as well, so I suspect this wasn't actually that much of a random draw by the manager (thanks Blake). Percy gave us both some pointers here which was very handy. Tricked out chapter master, las/plas tacs, ML/plas tacs, asscannon dread, 3 man plasma bike squad and 3x Vanilla Centurion Devastators with Land Raider Crusader dedicated transport (with Melta).

    Sorceror got Fear as his warlord trait (against marines? Awesome. ), Doombolt, Life Leach and Enfeeble for powers.

    He won initiative and deployed 1st, everything bar the raider and dread in cover or out of LOS, chapter master on his own though. I setup up with both Sons squads out of LOS of everything bar the bikes on the left hand edge, Forgefiend out of LOS of everything bar the Crusader on the right hand edge.



    His turn 1 he charged with the bikes (I thought you couldn't charge 1st player turn, but apparently not), but fluffed his charge range with a 4. Shuffled the dread forward but still out of LOS of everything, chapter master moved forward (!), marines moved towards the Sons out of cover, but out of LOS as well. Bike plasma bounced off my 4++, bolters took down 2, starting a trend of me not being able to roll armour saves at all, yet passing invulnerables with ease. Chapter master had LOS on my sons, but had moved, so couldn't fire his Orbital (I'm glad I read the forums, I know at least some of the rules!).

    Sons shuffle around for better angles to flank the marines next turn, took out 2 bikes and a handful of marines, fiend moved into LOS and pwned the Dread, 1st blood and a killpoint, yay!

    2:0 my way

    His turn 2, bike doesn't charge (?), marines shuffle partly out of cover (?), Crusader moves into LOS, Centurions move into LOS, but out of range of anything they can hurt. Lose a couple of Sons to assault cannon, bolters and a frag missile, plasma bounces off the 4++ again, Chapter master scatters offboard with his orbital, plas/las tacs target the fiend, 5++ deny the lascannon passed, plasma causes a glance on the fiend.

    Roll for reserves, the termies come in. Termies + Sorc come down with 2" scatter away from the raider, still enough to get me within half range melta with all 4 combis. Fiend angles for a shot on the 'Raider, Sons flank the marines so they're out of cover. Melta gets 3 hits, 2 pens: Shaken and weapon destroyed (hurricane bolter). Fiend uses daemon forge to try for a pair of glances on the 'Raider, nothing despite 6 hits with rerolls to pen. Sons focus fire and ruin the out of cover marines, even with them going to ground.



    2:0 my way

    His Turn 3, crusader moves forward, away from the fiends LOS, Chapter master moves towards the termies. Centurions fire 10 billion shots, dropping 4 termies and taking a wound off the sorceror. Las/Plas plinks harmlessly off the fiend, 5++ for lascannon again, Plas fails to glance or pen. Marines take a couple of Sons down with bolters, 4++ deny the plasma passed again and the plasma marine gets hot's himself in his haste to fire 2 shots, plasma bike again fails to get past the 4++ with both shots. Termies pass leadership and get assaulted by the chapter master, losing 1. Sorc can't get past the 4++ of the CM to pop him with the force weapon, pass leadership.

    Drake comes on, vector strikes the bike, another killpoint to me, Sons flank the remaining marines. Sons clear the remaining marines, earning another killpoint, drake clears the roof of the plasma marine and 4 of his friends, fiend take a hullpoint off the 'raider, Sorc and Chapter master flail uselessly at each other.

    4:1 my way.

    Ran out of time, so the game finished there Minor Victory to me, but I reckon I'd have been close to wiping him out if we went to turn 5.

    Highlights were the fiend and Sons taking plasma and lascannons like champs, Sons didn't fail a single 4++, despite dropping to bolters more than their 3+ would have had you believe. Lowlights were not dropping the 'Raider and being forced to reroll my aspiring sorceror spell 8 times in a row cause I got nothing but 5's and 6's and he only has a single mastery level. Still, not a bad 1st outing for the Sons.

    The other guy was advised a couple of times about stuff, sometimes he listened, sometimes not. I was advised a couple of times, but I was told afterwards I played alight. All in all, a good game.


    Game 2:

    Spoiler
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    This guy is pretty good from what I've gathered and has been playing for quite a while, but this list was mainly upgrades (due to lack of painted models) and him trying out stuff. He graciously let Percy continue to watch and assist.

    List was IIRC, Cadre Fireblade, 2x Fire Warriors with Drones, Riptide with drones, Skyray, 3 crisis suits with drones.

    Sorceror got reroll boons as his warlord trait (against Tau? Awesome. ), Boon of Mutation, Life Leach and Iron Arm for powers. Kept Boon due to warlord trait and getting a witchfire on biomancy before rolling Tzeentch.

    I got Initiative, rolled 2+1 for objectives (we were using mysterious objectives), placed 1 in the open near my deployment zone, the other about 12 inches away but out of LOS of his deployment zone, he put his inside the ruin where his guys were set up in the middle of his deployment zone.

    I deployed both Sons squads mostly out of LOS near my 2 objectives on the left hand side of the board, the Fiend went on the right hand side behind a building out of LOS of most of his side of the battlefield. Declared the termies were starting in reserve (later learned I should have said if they were deep striking or walking on, whoops), almost an exact copy of the previous game.

    He started his Firewarriors and 'Blade outflanking, skyray in the corner opposite the Forgefiend, Riptide in the middle, firewarriors in the ruins in the middle and crisis suits in reserve to deep strike.

    He failed to sieze.

    My Turn 1 my fiend popped out to face his skyray "Oh crap, where did he come from!", Sons shuffled around to both get closer to the objective and get more cover. Find out that my 2nd mysterious objective is reroll 1's to hit while shooting, very Tzeentchian, I like it. Fiend takes a hullpoint off the 'Ray despite only rolling 2 hits.

    'Ray stays put, firewarriors stay in cover, can't remember what their mysterious objective was, riptide jumppacks 10 inches on a 4d6 towards my Sons, but can't see anything. Ray shoots a couple of missiles at the fiend, pass 1 5++, the other pens and immobilises him, giving him a commanding view of the 7 inch wide strip on the right hand side of the board where nothing else is and bugger all else. Firewarriors on the top floor take potshots at the sons they can see and remove 2.

    My turn 2, Helldrake comes in, termies stay in reserve. Drake stays well away from the riptide who has interceptor and skyfire, coming down the right hand side that the forgefiend is stuck on. Sons shuffle a bit more to get out of LOS. Fiend figures he's got nothing else to do, so daemonforges the skyray to death with about 6 pens, First Blood to me, yay!

    His firewarriors and commander come in from outflank, he rolls to come in, gets the left, rerolls, gets the exact same result. Deploy in (his) rapidfire range of my Sons, oh dear. Firewarriors still setting up shop in the ruin, riptide move a bit toward the centre of the table, still can't doo much. Firewarriors take another Son down from their vantage point on the ruins, outflanking squad drop about 5.



    1:0 my way.

    Turn 3, termies still don't come in. My Drake vector stikes the riptide to no effect, the sons move up, apparently one of the drones cause anyone within a certain distance to treat all terrain as difficult. The drake fires its flamer at the firewarriors and commander, roasts a few, he makes 4++ invo against intant death. My Sons shoot some Firewarriors, I try to Tzeentchs Firestorm the, but the riptide has some 50 point upgrade to allow anyone within 18" (?) roll 4d6 to deny. Spoiler alert, he passes this every single time. Was originally taken to prevent jaws/psychic shriek shenanigans, but works with deadly efficiency against my aspiring sorcerors. His 'warriors resolve is strong and they don't fail their morale.

    I have a crack at charging (I shouldn't have been so free with my shooting!), but don't make it and he doesn't kill anything via overwatch.

    The crisis suits come in and rock up on a little plateu near the objective in my deployment zone. The riptide moves forward a few inches to get within melta range of my drake, the 'warriors shuffle backwards a bit, but stay within 15 inches of my other squad of Sons.

    The riptide melta's my drake, but the 5++ saves the day, the 'warriors trash the remaining couple of Sons from my 1st squad, the crisis suits shoot Sons squad #2 reducing them to a handfull of guys. The camping firewarriors can't see any victims so stay put.

    1:0 my way

    My turn 4, Termies come in, I declare they'll walk on (this is where I find out I should have declared deep strike or walking on at deployment. Whoops), they wander up nice and close to the crisis suits. His Riptide intercepts, but the template scatters off the board. My remaining Sons squad moves up to be within rapidfire range, the drake vector strikes the crisis suits and drops a pair of drones, then flames the firewarriors and commander again. Again he manages not to die, but his guys take a hammering. Termies unload thier guns into the crisis suits, killing all but 1 remaining drones and 1 suit. My Sons try to witchfire the remaining 'warriors, but get denied, they shoot 'em and get rid of everyone bar the commander.

    His commander falls back (by movement choice, not morale), the crisis suits jump onto a battlement near the objective #2, the riptide moves to the other end of the battlement nearest to his deployment zone. The fireblade reduced Sons squad #2 down to the Sorceror and 1 Rubric marine. The crisis tries to drops a terminator, but he passes his 4++, but can't repeat it against the riptide and 1 dies.

    1:0 to me

    My Turn 5 the sorc rolls for boon of mutation, gets Icy Aura Fleet. He and his pals waddle off towards towards the remaining crisis suit, the 2 remaining thousand sons cower out of LOS hard up against the battlements near the objective #2. Drake flies back towards the forgefiend and flames the crisis suit, but he and his drone both save. Termies drop the drone with shooting thanks to the reroll 1's from the mysterious objective, then charge the crisis suit and kill him.

    His fireblade moves in, but can't see my Sons or the Termies, his riptide can't move far enough to contest but tries to get in close to support the fireblade and the firewarriors are still huddled around their objective.

    He offered to call it there, but we still had 10 minutes, I said we'll play it out if you want. OK, roll for turn 6? Yep, turn 6.

    1:0 to me

    My turn 6, sorceror maifests Iron arm, termies move along battlements towards the riptide, drake moves back up the field and burinates some firewarriors, the 2 remainins Sons stay out of LOS. Termies and sorceror charge the riptide, just getting into combat due to difficult terrain. Overwatch does nothing. Riptude smashes, misses, sorceror hits the pristine riptide with his force axe so hard, his converted axe snaps off. Rolls for force weapon, bam, down goes the riptide.

    Cadre fireblade still can't get LOS on the Sons squad nor the termies on the battlements. Game over, Minor Victory to me.

    4:3 my favour (objectives worth 3 each)

    Highlights were obviously force weaponing the riptide with my sorceror and just generally how close the game was. I think my opponent pulled his punches here as well as he could have wiped out my sons and I wouldn't have been able to claim any objectives with no troops. No real lowlights, just not knowing about calling deepstrike vs walking on.

    Aside from a bit of advice about heldrake placement and some confirmation of what I was already thinking about how I should move during the last couple of turns, I managed this one mostly on my own, but without the advice on the drake, things would have turned out much differently.


    Game 3:

    Spoiler
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    Relic against Dark Eldar generalled by a guy who's been playing for over 20 years. Yeah, this'll end well. I played terribly in this, making 3 large errors early that cost me the game. Percy had stuck around as soon as he found out who I was playing, but there wasn't much he could have done without actually playing for me. He pretty much just watched me go to my doom.

    I don't know one dark eldar unit from another, so my best guess at his list is Archon, 2 troops, max scourges, a flyer, a raider/reaver (?) transport skimmer thing and I guess some fast attack guys if that's not scourges? Something had a couple of darklances and I think the troops had a darklance each too.

    Sorceror got master of deception as warlord (1 unit infiltrating), Boon of mutation Tzeentchs Firestorm, Terrify and Dominate

    We also finally remembered to roll for nightfighting, it was. He won initiative.

    He set up with one unit in a multi level ruin, 2 out in the open and the transport along the right hand edge, scourges in reserve to deep strike in. I forgot about infiltrating (1st big mistake), and started my sons as close as possible since there was nothing to block LOS with for them, and the forgefiend started out of LOS behind a building on the right hand side (hey, don't argue with what works), termies in reserve to deep strike in.

    I rolled to sieze, nope.

    His Turn 1, Transport moves up, units in the open move up into cover, the one in the ruins stays put. His guys chew up the Sons squad on the right, killing 4 or 5 guys.

    Both Squads of Sons move up, my forge fiend pops out and pops the transport but it doesn't explode (which would have been awesome). I should have moved around the other side of the building in retrospect, but oh well. Sons lay into the squad with the least amount of cover, but its night fighting, so they don't accomplish much, only about 3 dead.

    His Turn 2, his Scourges and flyer come in, scourges pop down behind my Sons squads, flyer makes a beeline for my forgefiend. Troops shuffle around a bit to get more into cover. He fires quite a few darklances and a bunch of other stuff into the fiend, I managed about 5x 5++'s against all bar 1 lance which immobilises the fiend. No one (we had a few spectators by this point) could believe it, the fiend kept on truckin. His troops and the scourges rolled terribly and left 3 of my Sons alive.



    My turn 2, my drake and termies both arrive, I move the drake on, vector striking the eldar flyer, then make Big mistakes #2 & 3, I move the Sons units forward before placing the terminators, so they go back into reserve, and then chose to shoot at his troops rather than rapidfire and charge his scourges. Lost the game right there I'd say. Vector strike glanced, forgefiend hit once but didn't even glance, even with reroll to pen from daemonforge. Killed a few of his troops, but only about 4.

    Turns 3 - 5 was basically just his guys shooting the crap out of mine with me unable to retaliate. Forgefiend got blown up (HP loss) on turn 3, drake got exploded from a lucky darklance shot (explode on pen chart) in turn 3 as well. Termies failed to arrive until turn 4, then came down, shot the archon and his unit, caused 4 casualties then got charged and swept. Sons got charge and annihilated by the other squad of troops, remaining squad got shot to death with only the sorceror left on the table at the end of my turn 4. Tabled on his Turn 5.

    Not much for the highlight reel this game, though the forgefiends ability to make 5++ saves continues to amaze. My Tzeentch dice do amazingly well on their 4++/5++ rolls, but fail miserably when called on for 3+/2+ armour saves.

    Still, I entered this to learn, not to win, and have some excellent things to take away. I remembered blessings before movement, now I have a lesson to remember to deploy all reserves (and call how they are coming on) before touching anything else. I think I will still need a couple of lessons on target priority and battlefield positioning before it really sinks in.

    I think I wasted a good opportunity by starting with the termies off the table, especially the sorcerror as I spent a lot of points on him, but never got to use his powers. I should have infiltrated either them or one of the sons squads a bit further up the board on the left and made an early grab for the relic and/or pour a bunch of fire into his troops.

    I take some small consolation that the Dark Eldar player won our group and will play off for the overall win. I had a chat with him once the game was over about what I should have done and what I should be thinking about and he gave me some good pointers.

    Overall, I'm pretty happy with how my lads did, how much fun it was and what I learned, but after hobbying all day, and well into the morning the night before to get them ready, then playing until 11pm, it's very mentally tiring to keep track of everything. Must remember to get more sleep next time as well.

    Just because I'm so proud of how he turned out, here is a picture of my heldrake. Still a bit of armour and spikes to go onto his back, and some way to fix the wings so they don't droop so bad, but then he'll be ready to paint.



  3. - Top - End - #1083
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Your Heldrake conversion is the best I've seen. It really captures the dragon look that the original fails to resemble. I may have to try my hand at that next time I make one. I wonder how it'd look in World Eater's colours.

    EDIT: Once you've painted it please, please post up a picture in the models thread. I'd love to see it finished.
    Last edited by Grim Portent; 2014-02-10 at 07:26 PM.
    Sanity is nice to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

  4. - Top - End - #1084
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Imperial Armour II - Second Edition
    War Machines of the Adeptus Astartes

    Due to the facts of the zero-sum mechanics of the FO Chart (if you take one unit, you are not taking another unit), IA2(2E) will appear in FO order, rather than the order in which they appear in the book - which is confusing. Unless otherwise stated, all options are available for Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Marines and Space Wolves.

    *Relic: Units which are Relics are 0-1 per Detachment. Don't go spending ForgeWorld money on units you can't use! If you want two (or more!) Relic vehicles, you'll need to include a Keeper of Relics as one of your HQ choices. This choice varies depending on the colour of your armour.


    Since not everyone has Forge World money, and not everyone uses Forge World rules, only about 40% of this book has been play-tested by me. If you have any thoughts or ideas, feel free.

    HQ
    Spoiler
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    Damocles Command Rhino: 0-1. Doesn't take a slot. Doesn't count as your compulsory HQ choice. It has no Transport Capacity. In return for not-a-Transport, it has a super Teleport Homer, makes your Reserves better and your opponents' worse, and shoots an Orbital just like a Chapter Master. It's not really worth it's points. But, hey; Another Orbital. Who doesn't love a good Barrage?


    Elites
    Spoiler
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    Land Raider Prometheus: Land Raiders as Elites? Who said you can't have an army entirely of Land Raiders!? This chassis is slightly more expensive than the Proteus (see Heavy Support), but, retains Assault Vehicle, and the fact that it forces negatives to Cover Saves makes its Heavy Bolter sponsons not totally useless. The problem with having a Land Raider in Elites, is that it costs almost as much as 10 Sternguard.

    Chaplain Dreadnought: Codex Marines and Dark Angels only. It's a Venerable Dreadnought with Hatred. Walkers in Assault are bad, with a capital AWFUL. You can grab a pair of Heavy Flamers and Charge out of a Lucius, but that's about it.

    Siege Dreadnought: Not for Blood Angels. It's cheaper (and better) than the Chaplain since it has a Flamestorm Cannon which is all sorts of better than a regular Heavy Flamer. And it has another Heavy Flamer. It's kind of cool. Bring a Lucius.

    Mark V Mortis Pattern Dreadnought: Dark Angels only. Codex Marines may have one per Detachment. 5th Ed. players of Marines will probably already have two or three of these guys. Well, if you're playing Dark Angels for some reason, enjoy your free Interceptor and Skyfire units! What else are you using your Elites for?

    Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought: Space Marines and Dark Angels only. Your main goal here is to be an AV13 Walker and run into Assault (you have Fleet, too, btw) as quick as possible.

    Contemptor-Mortis Pattern Dreadnought: Codex Marines and Dark Angels only. Like the other Mortis, you get Skyfire and Interceptor in exchange for not moving. But, you lost your Dreadnought CCW and Fleet in exchange for even more firepower. How totally awful.
    How come Marines can only have one Mortis Dread, but can have unlimited Contemptor-Mortis Dreads? Aren't Contemptors supposed to be rare or something?

    Rules for Space Wolf and Blood Angel Contemptors can be found in IA-A2(2E). But not here. No. I don't know why they weren't included in this book. They should have been. Instead of printing the Land Raider Prometheus twice, or doing a seperate section for Inquisition Rhinos and Land Raiders which are totally different to regular Rhinos and Land Raiders.

    Lucius Pattern Dreadnought Drop Pod: Bought as a Dedicated Transport for any Dreadnought - including the ones above. You don't have to Disembark on the turn that it lands, if you don't, you have Shrouded (take that Interceptors!). When you Disembark, the 'Pod counts as an Assault Vehicle which doesn't matter because Drop Pods are Open-Topped. You can't Assault from a Deep Strike though. So...Get one if you have a lot of Interceptors in your meta.
    Nerf: The Lucius 'Pod in IA-A2(2E) lets you Assault from a Deep Strike. If your TO isn't paying attention to 'updated rules', use that one. Although it does cost more points.

    Infernum Pattern Razorback: I couldn't figure out where else to put it. So it'll go here. It's a Dedicated Transport that anyone that can take a Razorback can take. It's a Razorback. With a Multi-Melta. It's not even Twin-Linked. Pass.


    Fast Attack
    Spoiler
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    Caestus Assault Ram: Putting this in Fast Attack gives it zero competition. It's not great at shooting at other Fliers (you could get two Stormtalons for the same points), but, that's not what it's for. It's for RAMMING THINGS! And it's pretty good at it, too.

    Land Speeder Tempest Squadron: If you've got access to Forge World, you should never take a regular Land Speeder ever again. A Tempest is basically a Stormtalon that doesn't Fly. That being said, what good is a Stormtalon that doesn't Fly?

    Javelin Attack Speeder*: It's a Land Speeder that Outflanks. That's...Cool...I guess. Unfortunately it only gets one Heavy Flamer or Multi-Melta. Should absolutely not be a Relic, but, it is.


    Heavy Support
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    Land Raider Helios: It's a Land Raider with a Whirlwind Launcher on the top - why does it have Lascannon sponsons instead of say, Hurricane Bolters? For 20 Points, you can replace the Whirlwind Launcher for a single-shot Skyfire, Interceptor weapon. Yes, replace, not add. Fail. It's also expensive for some reason.

    Land Raider Proteus: It loses Assault Vehicle. At it's base cost, it seems cheap, until you spot the only reason to bring a Proteus - the Explorator Augury Web - that brings the cost of the Proteus back up to parity with the other Land Raiders. Awesome, your 'Raider now has Scout (which makes up for the fact that it's not an Assault Vehicle), and now you can mess with your opponents' Reserves, or make your own better. It's not a complete waste of points - it's still a Land Raider! - but it isn't a particularly good use of a 'Raider chassis.

    Land Raider Achilles: It's expensive, and isn't an Assault Vehicle. However, it's immune to both Melta and Lance rules and can never be Vehicle Destroyed by weapons that aren't AP2 or 1. It also comes with a sweet, sweet Thunderfire Cannon (go home Land Raider Helios! You're not welcome here!) and comes with a pair of Twin-Linked Multi-Meltas just to mess with other vehicles (make sure to abuse Power of the Machine Spirit). Definitely a solid buy if you can afford the points cost.

    Deimos Predator: ...It's a Predator. For a bunch of points, you can tack on a Plasma Destroyer, which is basically a Heavy 3 Plasma Cannon. That's really the only reason to buy/bring one, and, with the Plasma Destroyer, you become a Relic*. So you only get one, anyway. ...There are better things to spend your Heavy slots on. Like...

    Relic Sicaran Battle Tank*: "Supposedly there's an STC between the Predator and Land Raider that's lost forever...Wait...We found it. Nevermind." It's an front-only AV13 vehicle (Errata nerfed it for no reason) with a Heavy 6 Autocannon that ignores Jink saves. A really nice vehicle. Get one.

    Whirlwind Hyperios Air Defence Tank: You pay 70 Points extra to get that terrible single-shot Skyfire, Interceptor weapon we talked about with the Land Raider Helios. Look, Hunters and Stalkers from Space Marines do the same thing with AV12. But, if you're not playing Codex Marines like Dark Angels or Space Wolves...Well...Get a Flier, not this.

    Relic Whirlwind Scorpius*: Predator chassis. Fires 2-4 Barrage shots at S8, AP3. There's a reason you can only have one.

    Spartan Assault Tank: Carries 25 models (somehow) and is a Land Raider with 5 Hull Points. If you're a fan of regular Land Raiders with Lascannons, this vehicle is better, because it has double the Lascannons. Basically, it's a Terminus Ultra, if Terminus Ultras were good.

    Storm Eagle Assault Gunship: It looks cool. If you're playing Dark Angels or Space Wolves, you will be paying the extra points for the Lascannons because what else do you have that even touches Fliers? Space Marines and Blood Angels have Stormravens, which are just as good, without the Forge World price tag. Otherwise, you could be using a Caestus.

    Storm Eagle (Roc Patten): Codex Marines only. And, yes. It's amazingly better than the other Storm Eagle. Still playing Dark Angels?

    Fire Raptor Gunship*: If you're playing Dark Angels or Space Wolves and aren't interested in the transport capacity of the Storm Eagle (why would you be? For Blood Claws?), pick up the Fire Raptor - at least it's Missiles can hit other Fliers! The Errata gave it to Blood Angels too, but, they don't need a Fire Raptor.

    Deathstorm Drop Pod: It's really good for one turn...And you pay through the nose for it.

    Tarantula Sentry Gun Battery: For when you hate everyone. Unlike the Land Raider Helios, or the terrible Whirlwind Hyperios, this is where you actually put your Hyperios Missile Launchers. Now you can have three shots for the same cost as a Whirlwind has one...And don't even get me started on paying for a Land Raider with one shot. But, Lascannons are good, too, and straight-up Heavy Bolters are cheap.

    Space Marine Rapier Weapons Battery: When you really hate everyone. Still cheap for absolutely no reason. Get some. And a Thunderfire Cannon. Just...Wow.


    Super-Heavies / Lords of War
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    Fellblade Super-Heavy Tank: I want to like it. I just don't. Lots of Lascannons and S8+ damage weapons. But, no matter how high your Strength, if you're a Super-Heavy without Str-D, you need to think about your priorities.

    Typhon Heavy Siege Tank: If you can't be Str-D, be S10, AP1, Ignores Cover with a 7" Blast. Thumbs up! Fairly cheap, too. Which means you can fit it in a 1750 list quite easily, instead of a Land Raider Achilles.

    Cerberus Heavy Tank Destroyer: Coming in at around the same cost as the Typhon, this is what you bring when you hate opposing Super-Heavies. It can force a model - even Super-Heavies - to only be able to fire Snap Shots, and, since a lot of D-weapons are Blast... The downside to the tank is, you can strip Hull Points off of yourself, and that's not cool. Still, your main weapon is Twin-Linked, and that's cool.

    Thunderhawk Gunship: It's a Super-Heavy Flier. If you can afford the hefty price tag, get one. It's kind of amazing. However, you can also make your own T-Hawk out of two Stormravens, a Razorback and some various bits (it's been done! I've seen it!).

    Thunderhawk Transporter: No.


    Legacies of Glory
    One vehicle per 1000 Points can take one. You can only have each Legacy once per army. Ideally, these Legacies are for First Founding Chapters, people who read the Fluff might recognise some of them. However, nothing is stopping you from putting any Legacy onto any vehicle you want, even for a Tank that wasn't there - or couldn't have been. Awkward...

    Spoiler
    Show
    Battle of Keylek: All your Blast weapons gain the Ignores Cover rule. You might think 'Whirlwinds are useful', but, that's only because you haven't remembered what you've read in this very guide. Deimos Predators are broken now. A Whirlwind Scorpius is now totally amazing.

    Ullanor Crusade: Tanks get Preferred Enemy (Orks), Walkers get Hatred (Orks). Does anyone still use Orks?

    War of Murder: Your vehicle gains Monster Hunter. YEEESSS! Oh, and friendly models near it gain Fearless, but nobody cares about that. MONSTER HUNTER!

    Battle of Sarosh: Once per game, the vehicle gains Skyfire, Interceptor, Tank Hunters and Night Vision. With apparently no 'end' to the rule.

    Isstvan III: Psst. That should be 'Istvaan'. Gain Preferred Enemy (Chaos Marines) and auto-pass terrain checks. Way better than the Ullanor Crusade because people actually do use Chaos Marines, and, if they're not, at least you pass Terrain checks.

    Burning of Prospero: You're vehicle gains Adamantium Will, and then another rule which makes you have a 3+ DtW against Witchfire Powers...Like anybody uses those.

    Isstvan V Dropsite Massacre: That's twice. Deep Strikers only. No Scatter.

    Battle of Calth: PF (CSM) and a Leadership modifier against enemy Warlords. Blergh. Just pay the extra ten points to get 'Isstvan' III.

    Battle of Signus Prime: Preferred Enemy (Chaos Daemons) which is awesome because people use Daemons all the time! And, models near the vehicle gain Furious Charge which I guess is okay.

    Battle of the Phall System: Thunderhawks or Storm Eagles only. Get a better Jink save. That's a waste of your Legacy slot.

    Thramas Crusade: It's a lot of points, don't Space Marines have re-rolls to Morale checks everywhere anyway? With ATSKNF? I'm sure that if you want the buff that this Legacy gives you, there are better ways of getting it.

    Schism of Mars: Gain Tank Hunters. Gain a bonus against Daemonforge models. Ignore Haywire. Definitely a solid investment, for Tank Hunters alone.

    Battle of Terra: Congrats. You paid 40/80 Points to be an Iron Hands vehicle. Way to fail.

    Icon of Glory: 50/100. No thanks. You get +1BS, which is okay. But, where the points come from is you give bonuses to your Warlord if he rolls on the Command Traits table (which sucks). Not only are you paying 50/100 Points, but, you're also not rolling on the Personal table. Are you an idiot? Oh, we're not done. If your opponent destroys this vehicle, they gain a bonus VP. You can't be serious. 50 Points!?

    Shrouded Provenance: Pay points to be Venerable. However, since you're obviously from a Traitor Legion, you count as an Ally of Convenience in your own Detachment, and automatically as a Desperate Ally to any Allies. Definitely not even a little bit worth it for Transports.

    Ancient Mariner: You can re-roll Archeotechs or Mysterious Terrain. Not only does this specific model have to be the one to 'trigger' the roll in the first place, but, does anyone actually use those garbage random tables? It's cheap, and that's fine. But since Legacies are limited, it makes this terrible, even if you did actually use random tables.


    Grey Knights
    Spoiler
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    Grey Knights Vortimer Pattern Land Raider Redeemer: That's a mouthful. It's a Land Raider Redeemer, except has S7 Templates and a Psycannon, and Fortitude. It's a cool tank (especially for Grey Knights), but, you're paying for it.

    Grey Knights Vortimer Pattern Razorback Armoured Transport: It's a Razorback with a Psycannon, and can pick up Psybolt Ammunition. But, 90 Points is a lot for an AV11 vehicle.

    Grey Knights MkIV Doomglaive Pattern Dreadnought: Psycannon and Doomglaive. It's still a Walker in Assault, and you know what that means. Still, if you're up against an enemy that can't hurt you (horde of Kroot, activate!), instead of being tarpitted for two turns, you can drop to I1 for +D6 attacks and that's pretty cool. The reason it's so expensive is because it's Venerable. I'd rather that it was cheaper and not Venerable. You're Grey Knights, if you want an Assault unit, you can pretty much pick any other unit out of your Elites slots.

    Grey Knights Thunderhawk Gunship: Pay 100 Points over a normal T-hawk to get Reinforced Aegis and Fortitude. Worth it? Probably not. But you have to bring one anyway because a Space Marine T-Hawk wont be able to transport any of your models.

    Inquisitorial Land Raider Prometheus: "Let's waste two pages by printing the exact same tank!" It's the same Prometheus as before, except is a Dedicated Transport for Inquisitoral Warbands. Errata nerfed it to Codex: Inquisition only.

    Inquisitorial Valkyrie Assault Carrier Squadron: Basically, take the Valkyries from IG, and cram them into the Grey Knights book, and then give them the option of picking up Mindstrike Missiles for free. You can have two Valkyries for the same points cost as a single Stormraven...Yes.
    Then Errata went ahead and nerfed it to Codex: Inquisition only. Mad face.


    Sisters of Battle
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    Sisters of Battle Repressor: I'd be pissed if I was a Sisters player. You need this Tank. 'No Print-Outs' (a.k.a. No Pirating) is a very real rule that exists. You need to buy this entire book for this one tank, because this tank is really, really good. Basically, it's a Predator with five Fire Points. You can have an entire army of AV13 - just like Necrons!
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  5. - Top - End - #1085
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Question: as a Necron player with about 2,000 points worth of stuff looking to expand into Forgeworld, are Canoptek Acanthrites, Sentry Pylons, and Tomb Stalkers worth it(for points value)? Assume money is no object.

  6. - Top - End - #1086
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Urist View Post
    Question: as a Necron player with about 2,000 points worth of stuff looking to expand into Forgeworld, are Canoptek Acanthrites, Sentry Pylons, and Tomb Stalkers worth it(for points value)? Assume money is no object.
    I suppose I should do IA12, next?

    ELITE: Canoptek Tomb Stalker: One of the best Monstrous Creatures to exist. T7 with immunity to Poisoned and Fleshbane, and IWND? Fleet, Deep Strike, Outflank - and Acute Senses and Night Vision - and Hit & Run? 4 attacks with Rampage!? Why don't you have two!?

    RAW: IA-A(2E) was printed after IA-12, with rules for the Tomb Stalker that has Rage instead of Rampage, and doesn't have the option to pick up IWND or a Gloom Prism. Same points cost. However, the 'Stalker in IA-12 is a Canoptek Tomb Stalker, whilst the one in IA-A(2E) is a Necrons Tomb Stalker. Totally different units, right?

    FAST: Canoptek Acanthrites: They're Jump Infantry. S4 with Voidblades and Meltaguns. They're T5 with 3 Wounds for some reason and one less attack than a Wraith. Instead of a 3++, they have Stealth. What makes these guys fall down is that Wraiths and Gauss exist. Wraiths are always going to make your Destroyer Lord awesome with Whip Coils, and, while a Jump-Melta unit is really cool, Necrons don't need it. Useful unit, but totally unnecessary.

    HEAVY: Canoptek Tomb Sentinel: It's a Tomb Stalker with less attacks, and doesn't have Acute Senses - but still has Outflank - and doesn't have Night Vision either. The Tomb Stalker trades two attacks for a Blast weapon that is Strength-test or die. No saves. Not 'Instant Death' either. If Eldar Seer Councils (S3) or Screamer Councils are causing you problems with their invulnerability, blow them away. Vehicles hit by this weapon suffer an auto-Penetrate. Unfortunately, the weapon only has a 12" range. So...That's why it's not Super-Awesome.

    HEAVY: Tesseract Ark: It's a Necron Thunderfire Cannon! You can choose to shoot a Heavy 3 Plasma Cannon, an AP3, Fleshbane Template, or a 24" S5-Armourbane Beam weapon. It even has FA14! Unfortunately, it's 250 Points! You could have two Annie Barges or 5 Spyders! See that Monolith? It's better for less points!

    HEAVY: Sentry Pylon: When buying, make sure you understand the difference between a Sentry Pylon, and a regular Pylon. It has a Heavy 2, Skyfire, Interceptor, Lascannon. Solid. Unfortunately, it's really vulnerable to Assaults. All attacks hit automatically. Ouch. Grenade sandwich.

    HEAVY: Night Shroud Bomber: It's in the name. Bomber. Bombers are bad. Don't get me wrong, the Bombs themselves are S10, AP1, Large Blast, but, they're still Bombs...And this vehicle comes in at 200+ points. However, with AV12 all-round and 4 HPs, it would want to.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2014-02-12 at 09:03 PM.
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  7. - Top - End - #1087
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    I'm curious on your analysis of the Tesseract Ark whether the fact that it has a smaller profile, making it less susceptible to attack, and has a lot more variety of attacks makes a difference when it comes to rating it. Purely on points, I can see why it's not good; but can tactical flexibility make up for that? Also, pie plates that are not Doomsday Arks are kind of cool for Necrons expecting to fight hordes, no?
    Last edited by Urist; 2014-02-12 at 11:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Urist View Post
    Purely on points, I can see why it's not good; but can tactical flexibility make up for that?
    Flexibility is good on cheap units. On expensive units, you have to pay for the privilege, and that kind of defeats the analysis, doesn't it? You know what makes Thunderfire Cannons amazing? Being 100 Points.

    Second, I'm not in the habit of reprinting rules. Especially not ones that come from Forge World. So I left out the part where getting a Weapon Destroyed on the Singularity Ark makes you Explode, instead, and, if you do actually get Vehicle Destroyed, you automatically explode at 6" with S6. But, I really didn't think I had to, because it's 250 Points which makes it too expensive to be any good.

    Is it as tough as a Land Raider? No.
    Does it transport models? No.
    Does a Monolith do both of those things for less points? Yes.

    Also, pie plates that are not Doomsday Arks are kind of cool for Necrons expecting to fight hordes, no?
    If Necrons are fighting hordes, they can use anything they want except for Heavy Destroyers. If Necrons can't fight hordes, they're doing something absolutely wrong.
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  9. - Top - End - #1089
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Fair points. Too bad, the fluff of a captured sun core is just so fun... Ah well.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    I'd be a bit more likely to pick up FW models if they end up going through with the rumor that you can order them through GW stores, pricing is a bit on the high side even for 40k, even before shipping costs.

    In theory I'm a big fan of the Tom Stalker/Sentinel units, but I'm not a fan of the models. Flip ways for the Acanthrites, cool model but underwhelming rules (if I really want hard anti-armor there's other good choices in the codex).

    I'm still mulling over what army I want to start for my next force after I finish work on my Dynasty. I really, really like BA thematically, but they're obviously a bit outdated. DA are pretty cool, I'm a fan of Ravenwing in general but the whole codex seems pretty good overall.

    Then again, they both seem a bit outclassed by the Vanilla SM dex, so I dunno.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    I'd be a bit more likely to pick up FW models if they end up going through with the rumor that you can order them through GW stores, pricing is a bit on the high side even for 40k, even before shipping costs.

    In theory I'm a big fan of the Tom Stalker/Sentinel units, but I'm not a fan of the models. Flip ways for the Acanthrites, cool model but underwhelming rules (if I really want hard anti-armor there's other good choices in the codex).

    I'm still mulling over what army I want to start for my next force after I finish work on my Dynasty. I really, really like BA thematically, but they're obviously a bit outdated. DA are pretty cool, I'm a fan of Ravenwing in general but the whole codex seems pretty good overall.

    Then again, they both seem a bit outclassed by the Vanilla SM dex, so I dunno.
    I actually really love the Tomb Stalker model, although the Sentinel is goofy. Acanthrites, I've probably been convinced are not worth it. Although I love their look..

    As for another army, I'm worrying about finishing my Necrons first... Way too much to do there.

    Any advice from the thread on this Necron list? Thought is, as most of the tables at my LGS have elevated terrain and not too much blocking LoS, to place the Pylons with a bubble wrap of 20 Warriors with an Orb Lord, use the Annihilation Barges to zoom up the board and harass with the Pylons providing overwatch. Overlord and second Lord accompany the Immortals, dropped off via Night Scythe to take objectives on their side of the table, with Warriors in Scythes used for the same purposes and to obtain a Linebreaker point. Tomb Stalker is used to disrupt their back board coming in from reserves.
    Sample List
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    2000 Points:

    HQ:Necron Overlord, MSS, Weave, Orb, Scythe(180)

    Royal Court:
    Harbinger of Eternity, Chronometron(40)
    Necron Lord, Res Orb, Scythe, Weave, MSS(105)
    Necron Lord, Scythe, Weave, MSS(75)

    Troops: 10x Immortals, Nightscythe(270)
    20x Warriors(260)
    7x Warriors(Nightscythe)-178
    6x Warriors(Nightscythe)-178

    Elites:Canoptek Tomb Stalker, Sepulchural Scarabs, Gloom Prism(235)

    Heavy Support: 2x Annihilation Barge(180)
    2x Necron Pylons, 2x Gauss Exterminators, Sepulchural Scarabs(300)

    Last edited by Urist; 2014-02-13 at 02:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Urist View Post
    I actually really love the Tomb Stalker model, although the Sentinel is goofy. Acanthrites, I've probably been convinced are not worth it. Although I love their look..

    As for another army, I'm worrying about finishing my Necrons first... Way too much to do there.

    Any advice from the thread on this Necron list? Thought is, as most of the tables at my LGS have elevated terrain and not too much blocking LoS, to place the Pylons with a bubble wrap of 20 Warriors with an Orb Lord, use the Annihilation Barges to zoom up the board and harass with the Pylons providing overwatch. Overlord and second Lord accompany the Immortals, dropped off via Night Scythe to take objectives on their side of the table, with Warriors in Scythes used for the same purposes and to obtain a Linebreaker point. Tomb Stalker is used to disrupt their back board coming in from reserves.
    Sample List
    Spoiler
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    2000 Points:

    HQ:Necron Overlord, MSS, Weave, Orb, Scythe(180)

    Royal Court:
    Harbinger of Eternity, Chronometron(40)
    Necron Lord, Res Orb, Scythe, Weave, MSS(105)
    Necron Lord, Scythe, Weave, MSS(75)

    Troops: 10x Immortals, Nightscythe(270)
    20x Warriors(260)
    7x Warriors(Nightscythe)-178
    6x Warriors(Nightscythe)-178

    Elites:Canoptek Tomb Stalker, Sepulchural Scarabs, Gloom Prism(235)

    Heavy Support: 2x Annihilation Barge(180)
    2x Necron Pylons, 2x Gauss Exterminators, Sepulchural Scarabs(300)

    I'm not sure about Pylons, but I know you can't have a squad of Annihilation Barges. I'm fairly certain Pylons are 1 per unit as well, which would make that 4 HS options, which you can't do.

    Yeah, I'm always torn about buying more Necrons to make one massive force, or getting different models for variety and what not. I love a lot of the different models, but expanding the existing force is probably the better idea overall.

  13. - Top - End - #1093
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    I'm not sure about Pylons, but I know you can't have a squad of Annihilation Barges. I'm fairly certain Pylons are 1 per unit as well, which would make that 4 HS options, which you can't do.
    The solution is simple.


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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    I'm not sure about Pylons, but I know you can't have a squad of Annihilation Barges. I'm fairly certain Pylons are 1 per unit as well, which would make that 4 HS options, which you can't do.

    Yeah, I'm always torn about buying more Necrons to make one massive force, or getting different models for variety and what not. I love a lot of the different models, but expanding the existing force is probably the better idea overall.
    Sentry Pylons are actually 1-3 per unit, so I chose 2. Annihilation Barges were just noted that way for convenience.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Urist View Post
    Sentry Pylons are actually 1-3 per unit, so I chose 2. Annihilation Barges were just noted that way for convenience.
    Ah, I haven't looked that closely at Forgeworld rules, so that's cool. Overall I think your model count is a bit low, but it's a good idea overall.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    The Dark Harvest
    Imperial Armour 12 - The Fall of Orpheus

    The Dark Harvest is a Codex: Necrons army list.

    Due to the frenetic nature of Forge World, and the lack of availability of updates, Blue Text, will tell you if something has been updated. In many cases (again, due to the lack of availability) many metas will allow you to bring whatever you want. Other metas will demand the most up-to-date rules. Check before you spend money.

    Special Rules
    Spoiler
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    Flensing Scarabs: A funky piece of Wargear that gives the model with them Shred on the first round of the first Assault that they get in. It's not fantastic by any means, but, like Melta Bombs, they're something to spend points on when you can't think of anything else.

    Mark of the Flayer: If a unit with a model with this rule wipes out a unit in Assault, or fails a Morale check, roll a D6. If you roll badly, the model with this rule automatically makes D3 hits against his own unit with his weapon. If you roll well, gain Fearless and Rage (yes, fail a Morale check, become Fearless). However, if you roll 'well', and the model is your Warlord, your opponent counts as having Slain the Warlord, whether they actually do or not. Turning into a mindless automaton is bad. This is exactly what NewCrons try and avoid.

    Allies: Codex: Necrons are Allies of Convenience (not Battle Brothers? ). Everything that actually is AoC for Necrons on the Allies Matrix becomes Desperate Allies. So...Dark Harvest/Necrons is your only real choice.

    Warlord Traits:
    1. Reserve Manipulation. Good with Fliers.
    2. If your opponent doesn't Slay the Warlord, gain an extra VP. This is basically two points; Deny your opponent StW, gain an extra VP.
    3. The Warlord must always issue and accept Challenges. Gain an extra VP for each IC killed this way.
    4. If near an objective, the Warlord's unit can re-roll Reanimation Protocols. Winner.
    5. Each turn, one Vehicle or Artillery model may have +1S on any ranged weapon. Extra winner.
    6. Crusader.


    HQ
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    Kutlakh the World Killer: Phaeron, Phylactery, Sempiternal Weave, Phase Shifter. He has a Staff of Light and another weapon. For five points less than Imotekh, Kutlakh has an extra point of WS and another attack. He causes Fear, is Fearless, and has the Crusader Warlord Trait. However, he must also issue and accept Challenges, which, would normally suck. But, he has a S5, AP2, Instant Death weapon, and can reduce his opponents' WS. ...Models with 0 WS can not attack and are hit automatically. I suppose that makes up for lack of Mindshackles? Also, can be in a Barge.

    Toholk the Blinded: Aeonstave, Timesplitter Cloak, Chronometron and a Transdimensional Beamer. He has the statline of a Cryptek with +1T and a second Wound. For the cost of a Destroyer Lord, he comes with #1 Warlord Trait which isn't bad, and gives the unit he's with Night Vision (awesome), as well as giving D3 vehicles in the Dark Harvest IWND. Considering he has a 3++ and actually helps out your shooty units - and is cheaper - he should probably be your Warlord.

    Maynarkh Overlord: Same as a regular Overlord, but has Fear, Mark of the Flayer, and access to Flensing Scarabs. Two of those things don't matter, and you get Fear for free.
    Catacomb Command Barge

    Destroyer Lord: Yep. Bring Wraiths.

    Royal Court of Maynarkh: Maynarkh Lords have Mark of the Flayer, Fear, and access Flensing Scarabs. Kutlakh counts as an Overlord. Crypteks are exactly the same as the Codex.


    Troops
    Spoiler
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    Maynarkh Warrior Phalanx: Come in squads of 10 so you can't minmax with Night Scythes. Whole squad can take Flensing Scarabs for 10 Points. Yep, no scaling. So, Scarabs are more efficient the more models you have.

    Ghost Ark: I like Ghost Arks better in the Dark Harvest than in the Codex.

    Maynarkh Flayed One Pack: One mistake the Necrons book makes is that Flayed Ones aren't Troops. Now that they are, though? Awesome. Everyone loves Infiltrating Scoring units. And, the fact that they have access to Flensing Scarabs means that they don't totally suck in combat either (at least, the first combat). You should take at least one unit.

    Maynarkh Immortals: Identical to their Codex counterparts. Except that they can't be used as your compulsory Troops choices. Forge World really doesn't want you min-maxing with this list. Can take Flensing Scarabs.

    Night Scythe: As good as they have always been. With Toholk's ability to manipulate Reserves, and give a number of Vehicles IWND, they're even better!


    Elites
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    Canoptek Tomb Stalker: For the same price as the cheapest C'Tan (which Dark Harvest doesn't have access to anyway), you get a Fearless MC which has Acute Senses and Outflank, Fleet, can Deep Strike (but you shouldn't), and has Hit & Run to not get tarpitted. Furthermore, it's immune to Poison and Fleshbane, and can be upgraded to have IWND. It's also got four attacks and Rampage! What else do you want? ...Oh...Yeah...Assault Grenades would be nice, wouldn't they?
    Can be used in Codex: Necrons.

    Update: IA-A(2E) reprinted the rules. Replaces Rampage with Rage which is nowhere near as good, and removed the options for IWND and picking up a Gloom Prism. Same points cost - which is kind of bad. Still, very solid. Especially in Dark Harvest when you can back it up with some not-awful combat units like Flayed Ones with Scarabs.

    Charnel Lychguards: One unit for each Overlord in the army - just like Royal Courts. For an extra 5 Points per model, these guys have Fear and Rage, and they can pick up Flensing Scarabs. Definitely a very scary unit - with Dispersion Shields, that is - but, competing with Tomb Stalkers that cost less isn't great. Especially since you have to take an Overlord/Kutlakh instead of Toholk.

    Deathmarks, Triarch Praetorians, Triarch Stalkers.


    Fast Attack
    Spoiler
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    Canoptek Acanthrites: For +15 Points over a regular Wraith, they lose S6, Rending and Wraithflight, for S4, Voidblades and a S6 Meltagun. Instead of a Wraith's 3++, they have +1T, +1W and Stealth. And you can have up to nine of them in a unit...What could you possibly need 9 Meltaguns for? Since the Dark Harvest isn't going to be bringing Triarch Stalkers, you may need Meltaguns in your list somewhere - especially on Jump Infantry. If you could make their Deep Strike reliable, they'd be very good, unfortunately, Necrons don't really have a way of doing that...So...No.
    Can be used in Codex: Necrons. Don't.

    Canoptek Wraiths, Tomb Blades, Necron Destroyers

    Maynarkh Canoptek Scarab Swarms: Exactly the same as regular bases. But, for +5 Points per base, gain +1WS, and trade Entropic Strike for Shred and Rending. Really good backup units for a Tomb Stalker, or, Flayed Ones who run fast. Whichever you choose to go with, Scarabs are always good.

    Canoptek Tomb Sentinel: For 10 Points less than the Tomb Stalker, it loses two attacks - but keeps Rampage. Loses Acute Senses, but still has Outflank and Deep Strike, and retains all the good stuff. In return for losing two attacks, it gains a Transdimensional Beamer that has Blast tacked on. The range is still 12" though. However, models without a strength value (i.e; Vehicles), take an auto-Penetrating Hit instead of nothing.
    [COLOR="Red"]Can be used in Codex: Necrons where it's a Heavy Support choice instead of Fast...Where there's lots of competition. Probably not a great idea.


    Heavy Support
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    Tesseract Ark: It's a Necron Thunderfire Cannon! ...For 250 Points. You can choose to shoot a Heavy 3 Plasma Cannon, an AP3, Fleshbane Template, or a 24" S5-Armourbane Beam weapon. It even has FA14! Unfortunately, it's 250 Points and can blow up easily. You could have two Annie Barges or 5 Spyders! See that Monolith? It's better for less points!
    Can be used in Codex: Necrons. It's not good in a Dark Harvest list, it ain't gonna get better in a Codex list.

    Sentry Pylon: Artillery Batteries of 1-3, that shoot Heavy 2, Interceptor, Skyfire Lascannons. They're a tad on the expensive side, but, you shouldn't need more than two. Even if they're not shooting at Fliers, remember that they're still Heavy 2 Lascannons and will blow things away.
    Can be used in a Codex: Necrons list. Why not?

    Night Shroud Bomber: It's in the name. Bomber. Bombers are bad. Don't get me wrong, the Bombs themselves are S10, AP1, Large Blast, but, they're still Bombs...And this vehicle comes in at 200+ points. However, with AV12 all-round and 4 HPs, it would want to. For nearly the same points cost, you can get two Sentry Pylons. Do that.
    Can be used in a Codex: Necrons list. Don't.

    Doomsday Ark, Annihilation Barge, Necron Monolith, Doom Scythe, Canoptek Spyders: The usual.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    CG, some questions about that rundown.

    You give Flayed Ones a high recommendation, but despite being scoring they're still assault-only units with only moderate assault viability (assuming they're the same as Codex: Necron). Is the ability to Infiltrate a Troops choice that valuable? I would figure they would just get shot off the board turn 1 like a regular Flayed One pack.

    You give Monoliths the "decent unit" coloration, when a lot of people consider them to be fairly bad models. Care to elaborate on that at all? I've heard a lot of negative commentary on them, but I'd be interested on the flipside since I quite like them.

    Why do you rate the Tomb Stalker better for Dark Harvest than Codex: Necrons? Is it just the wider array of Assault-oriented units to back one up that DH allows?

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    Is the ability to Infiltrate a Troops choice that valuable?
    Not really. But the ability to Outflank a Troops choice most definitely is.

    You give Monoliths the "decent unit" coloration, when a lot of people consider them to be fairly bad models.
    Are those people stuck in 5th Ed. where Marines with Drop-Meltas are everywhere? Or are they in the Tau/Eldar/Daemons meta where nothing can break AV14 to save itself?

    Why do you rate the Tomb Stalker better for Dark Harvest than Codex: Necrons? Is it just the wider array of Assault-oriented units to back one up that DH allows?
    Yes. If you have a Tomb Stalker in a Codex army, it goes running off by itself to get killed. Sure, it's not really affected by Poison. But it still gets Plasma'd in no time at all.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Had a squizz at the Black Legion book yesterday. Quick question: Other than the fact that it's "only" 2d6 bolter shots (which are also blind/ignores cover/combat/LOS) per enemy unit, am I ascribing too much awesome to the Last Memory of Yuranthos, because the ability to cover virtually the entire freakin' board with an average of 7 bolter shots doesn't sound terrible at all for 30 points, especially since I was taking a spell familiar anyway.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    By accident, I have recently acquired a reasonable amount of Dark Eldar models. This Wednesday I have plans to play against a Raven Guard force, and a Gray Knight force. Does anyone have any advice on how to play Dark Eldar as a complete newbie, and what should I expect from the matchups?

    Here's a list of the models I have available to me.
    Spoiler
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    Some models are still on their way to me, and I haven't had a chance to count out the exact amount...

    HQ
    1-3 Haemunculi
    1 Succubus
    1 Lelith Hesperax
    ? Baron Sathonyx ? (From the images, there is a single Hellion model, which I imagine is most likely the baron)

    Troops
    10 Wyches
    20-30 Kabalite Warriors

    Elite
    9 Kabalite Trueborn
    ? Incubi ? (as far as I can tell from a somewhat blurry image, there is an unknown amount of Incibu incoming)

    Fast Attack
    5 Ravers

    Heavy
    3 Ravagers
    1 Talos Pain Engine

    Transport
    1 Raider
    2 Venoms


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    Quote Originally Posted by SanguinePenguin View Post
    I am just saying that Nam seems crazy to Kohl even by violent, homeless, grave-robbing arsonist with a death wish standards.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Had a squizz at the Black Legion book yesterday. Quick question: Other than the fact that it's "only" 2d6 bolter shots (which are also blind/ignores cover/combat/LOS) per enemy unit, am I ascribing too much awesome to the Last Memory of Yuranthos, because the ability to cover virtually the entire freakin' board with an average of 7 bolter shots doesn't sound terrible at all for 30 points, especially since I was taking a spell familiar anyway.
    No that power is pretty stupidly awesome. It won't do a lot against Mechdar and Tau battlesuits ignore the blind part of it (thank goodness for black sun filters) but you'll play hob with their support infantry (especially pathfinders/kroot) and potentially blinding your opponents makes for a scary close combat phase for your spawn and lord combo.

    I have a player in my meta who runs this combo and it really pushes target priority for my Tau list because I have to kill the psycher to keep my troops and support alive but then I can't put shots into the assault lords who are charging in so I'm going to lose models to them. Add in the quad helldrake circus with it (my opponent does not have that thankfully) and you can see how it really applies force over a large area.


    Edit @Darwin: It's good to see more dEldar players and they have kind of turned over to a bit of a meta buster (poison for MCs and LOTS of AP 1/2) but I can't really advise on how to build a good list besides buy dudes, put them in transports with lots of splinter cannons and then slide around the map bullet hosing people.
    Last edited by Ishikar; 2014-02-14 at 10:39 AM.
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    Actually, Tarrasques are merely an extremely endangered species. They reproduce by spontaniously coming into existance when people piss off the DM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Believe it or not, we don't really have a meta that needs busting in our playing environment. There is no Tau players, and only a single Eldar player, who plays them as his secondaries, and without Wraithknights, Jetbikes or excessive amounts of Wave Serpents. I mostly play against Marines, but our meta also includes guardsmen, tyranids, and daemons. It's a good place to be in
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanguinePenguin View Post
    I am just saying that Nam seems crazy to Kohl even by violent, homeless, grave-robbing arsonist with a death wish standards.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    My "meta" is a little odd with what we have in it, as far as primaries go we have:

    1 Tau (myself, 1st army since mid-5th)
    1 Chaos (both sides, likes to play a lot of different lists)
    1 dEldar (newer player, the store owner who has both factions of eldar)
    1 Eldar (Store Owner's main)
    1 Dark Angels
    1 CSM/Necrons
    2 Orks
    1 Gray Knights/Inquisition
    1 Raven Guard

    If you start counting in additional armies almost everyone has Space Marines and we add in Nids, guard, and sisters to finish out our coverage. We play somewhat competitively but usually within reason (i.e. I run at max 3 riptides despite having 4 of them, no sceamer/seer councils). One of the players who's in at random has a serpent spam eldar army but only ever plays the same tyranid player so we don't really count them as part of the meta.

    The game has taken a bit of a downturn lately but like most stores it comes and goes with time (boardgames and Dropzone Commander are the big things at the moment).
    Quote Originally Posted by Winged One View Post
    Actually, Tarrasques are merely an extremely endangered species. They reproduce by spontaniously coming into existance when people piss off the DM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Heh. My meta is weird. Orks always seem to win, followed closely by IG infantry-spam and Terminator lists.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Darwin View Post
    By accident, I have recently acquired a reasonable amount of Dark Eldar models. This Wednesday I have plans to play against a Raven Guard force, and a Gray Knight force.
    Dark Eldar? Playing against Marines? You're in trouble. Since you're Poison weapons are wounding on 4+, you basically have Boltguns against Marines, and they don't particularly care. Lots of Dark Lances and Dizzy Guns being AP2 or 1 don't really bother them either because Marines don't Terminators, either. (Grey Knights, might).

    Here's a list of the models I have available to me.
    Let's roll.

    Spoiler
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    1-3 Haemunculi
    1 Succubus
    1 Lelith Hesperax

    Baron Sathonyx

    The Baron is all you need. Unless you have Wracks-for-Troops (which you don't), Dark Eldar no longer need Haemonculi at all.

    10 Wyches
    20-30 Kabalite Warriors

    1 Raider
    2 Venoms

    x2 Squads of 5 Wyches in the Venoms.
    x1 Squad of 20 Warriors
    x1 Squad of 10 Warriors in Raider with Splinter Racks.

    My advice? Get more Transports, ASAP.

    9 Kabalite Trueborn
    ? Incubi

    Trueborn are only useful in squads of 3, spamming Heavy weapons, and using their cheap-ness to unlock more Venoms - which you don't have.

    Incubi really, really, really need a Raider Transport.

    5 Reavers

    Warning you now, since Reavers aren't Troops, they're nowhere near as good as Eldar Jetbikes. I assume that you're going to put Baron here to give them Stealth and Hit & Run.

    3 Ravagers

    Yep.


    Baron Sarthonyx - 105 Points

    Warriors (x20) - 230 Points
    x2 Dark Lances

    Warriors (x10) - 220 Points
    Blaster, Dark Lance
    + Raider; Splinter Racks, Night Shields, Flickerfield

    Wyches (x5) - 125 Points
    Haywire Grenades
    + Venom; x2 Splinter Cannons

    Wyches (x5) - 125 Points
    Haywire Grenades
    + Venom; x2 Splinter Cannons

    Reavers (x5) - 142 Points
    Heat Lance, Cluster Caltrops

    Ravager - 105 Points
    Ravager - 105 Points
    Ravager - 105 Points

    Total: 1262 Points

    So, you've got roughly 1262 Points worth of useful stuff. Anything else will just be filling points to fill points. And, as we all know, spending points on extra wargear instead of more, useful models is not the best idea in the world. Unless all of the Trueborn that you're getting come with Heavy weapons, they're pretty much useless.

    Here's the problem; Dark Eldar are super-reliant on their Transports (yes, even in an age where Mech Is Dead). You only have 3.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    By the by, Cheesegear, the reason Dark Harvest is only AoC with other Necrons is because of the extensive presence of the Flayed One contagion, and the fact that even before the long sleep the other Dynasties wanted to gank them.

    I mean, if codex Necron Overlords will order their troops to fire on any Flayed One packs they see, and the Maynarkh use Flayed Ones as troops, well....

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Knight View Post
    By the by, Cheesegear, the reason Dark Harvest is only AoC with other Necrons is because of the extensive presence of the Flayed One contagion
    Oh, I know that. I'm just saying that it sucks. Consider Tau/Farsight, or IG/Krieg, or how Space Marines can Ally with themselves for no losses.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Dark Eldar? Playing against Marines? You're in trouble. Since you're Poison weapons are wounding on 4+, you basically have Boltguns against Marines, and they don't particularly care. Lots of Dark Lances and Dizzy Guns being AP2 or 1 don't really bother them either because Marines don't Terminators, either. (Grey Knights, might).



    Let's roll.

    Spoiler
    Show

    1-3 Haemunculi
    1 Succubus
    1 Lelith Hesperax

    Baron Sathonyx

    The Baron is all you need. Unless you have Wracks-for-Troops (which you don't), Dark Eldar no longer need Haemonculi at all.

    10 Wyches
    20-30 Kabalite Warriors

    1 Raider
    2 Venoms

    x2 Squads of 5 Wyches in the Venoms.
    x1 Squad of 20 Warriors
    x1 Squad of 10 Warriors in Raider with Splinter Racks.

    My advice? Get more Transports, ASAP.

    9 Kabalite Trueborn
    ? Incubi

    Trueborn are only useful in squads of 3, spamming Heavy weapons, and using their cheap-ness to unlock more Venoms - which you don't have.

    Incubi really, really, really need a Raider Transport.

    5 Reavers

    Warning you now, since Reavers aren't Troops, they're nowhere near as good as Eldar Jetbikes. I assume that you're going to put Baron here to give them Stealth and Hit & Run.

    3 Ravagers

    Yep.


    Baron Sarthonyx - 105 Points

    Warriors (x20) - 230 Points
    x2 Dark Lances

    Warriors (x10) - 220 Points
    Blaster, Dark Lance
    + Raider; Splinter Racks, Night Shields, Flickerfield

    Wyches (x5) - 125 Points
    Haywire Grenades
    + Venom; x2 Splinter Cannons

    Wyches (x5) - 125 Points
    Haywire Grenades
    + Venom; x2 Splinter Cannons

    Reavers (x5) - 142 Points
    Heat Lance, Cluster Caltrops

    Ravager - 105 Points
    Ravager - 105 Points
    Ravager - 105 Points

    Total: 1262 Points

    So, you've got roughly 1262 Points worth of useful stuff. Anything else will just be filling points to fill points. And, as we all know, spending points on extra wargear instead of more, useful models is not the best idea in the world. Unless all of the Trueborn that you're getting come with Heavy weapons, they're pretty much useless.

    Here's the problem; Dark Eldar are super-reliant on their Transports (yes, even in an age where Mech Is Dead). You only have 3.
    Great stuff! I read the miniguide and tried building a list, but I like this one a lot better.

    I might have a solution for the transport problem. The Ravagers that are on their way are the old model, and as far as I can tell the only difference between the old raider and the old ravager is the 2 dark lances on the sides of the skimmer so I could easily switch between having the as either. I know from the interwebs that 3 Ravagers are a must in any DE army. The question is whether the lack of transports are hurting me more than the lack of ravagers (I could possibly switch at least one out for a Pain Engine?).

    Also, we don't really care too much about wysiwyg where I play and as long as the models with special weapon are distinguishable from the others most people are gonna be okay with whatever weapons I pick. I have an Aegis Defense Line, should I run some Trueborn with heavy weapons behind it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanguinePenguin View Post
    I am just saying that Nam seems crazy to Kohl even by violent, homeless, grave-robbing arsonist with a death wish standards.

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    Jan 2005
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Spoiler: Knights
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    Princess in the streets.
    Princess in the sheets.
    Don't touch me I'm royalty.

  30. - Top - End - #1110
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Re: Dark Harvest

    Cheesegear, you might want to mention the other options for Sentry Pylon weapons. The Heat Cannon or whatever it's called isn't particularly terrifying, but the Focussed Death Ray is pretty hilarious for what it does, since it'll kill basically anything and can shoot at things in combat / through your own units / at a different target for each gun in the squad, which can be pretty terrifying to play against.

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