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  1. - Top - End - #1141
    Titan in the Playground
     
    LCP's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Ah, cool. I stand corrected.
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    WFRP 2E - Tales of Perilous Adventure
    The Hour After Midnight
    The Lord of Lost Heart
    Ill Met By Morrslieb

    Dark Heresy 1E - Wake of the Byzantium
    Episodes: I, II, III, IV, V

    WFRP 2E - The Bloody Crown
    Threads: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X

  2. - Top - End - #1142
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    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    seeing that someone raised thee point of WFb, can I say something, who else saw the opportunity for using Empire and Dwarfs to make an Imperial guard army?

    I use empire hand gunners as my standard Infantry
    Dwarven thunderers as my storm troopers.
    a steam tank becomes a hell hound
    a Wizard, an sanctioned psyker (Primas psyker).
    and empire Knights (though I did consider bettonian) as Rough riders (yes I use Rough riders, it's cavalry shock, that works for me, they don't expect them to be any good, then they spear a carnifex, Avatar of Khaine, Karn the Betrayer, riptide, inquistor or an Orc meganob.)
    and I use groups of cannons make excellent heavy weapon teams.
    I like Dwarfs and am Currently looking for out of context quotes about myself.

    Escaped Die of the D20

    and before anyone asks, I am a sociopath.

  3. - Top - End - #1143
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    The Minotaurs and Death Korps
    Imperial Armour 12 - The Fall of Orpheus

    The Minotaurs is a Codex: Space Marines army list.
    The Death Korps of Krieg is a Codex: Imperial Guard army list.

    Updates in Blue.

    The Minotaurs
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    Lord Asterion Moloc and Chaplain Ivanus Enkomi have both been updated in one of Forge World's free downloads. Both are fine. See here for comments.

    Hecaton Aiakos: He's written under the HQ section, but, on the same page, he has a text box saying that he's an Elites choice. RAW, the text box takes precedence. For 40 Points over a regular Contemptor-with-Plasma Cannon, he has an extra point of Initiative, and Venerable, and a nice S6, AP4 'nova' attack that he can use against hordes. The only thing really wrong with him is that he doesn't have Kheres Assault Cannons or a CML. Which has almost double the firepower. Basically, Hecaton is a more survivable - but less killy - than a Contemptor. But, he is good at killing hordes - which is important in a Walker.

    Vigilator-Sergeant Hamath Kraatos: For 60 Points, you can upgrade one of your Devastator Sergeants to a Sergeant with BS5, an extra Wound, with a Heavy Bolter and Preferred Enemy 'Not Vehicles'. He doesn't have a Missile Launcher, so what's the point? You're still paying 60 Points for what amounts to a 'fifth Heavy weapon' that's only a Heavy Bolter. Not good at all.

    Infernum Pattern Predator: It's a Predator chassis with the option of a Flamestorm Cannon or a Magna-Melta. Unfortunately, due to the short range of both of those weapons, getting any use out of this Predator involves moving your Predator up to or past the middle of the board, revealing your Side and Rear Armours making the AV13-front that Predators are renowned for is for nought. Besides, if you're using Forge World, there are much better things to use your Heavy slots on.

    Damocles Command Vehicle, Storm Eagle Assault Gunship, SEAG - Roc Pattern, Deathstorm Drop Pod, Deimos Predator and Spartan Assault Tank have all been reprinted in IA2(2E). IA2(2E) also has a whole bunch more things in it besides. The good news is, there are no changes between IA12 and IA2(2E), so, if you're a fan of the Minotaurs' fluff and really want to pick up Hecaton, you shouldn't feel like you've wasted your money by buying IA12. It's fine.


    Death Korps of Krieg Assault Brigade

    Special Rules
    Spoiler
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    Allies:
    BBs: Imperial Guard, Space Marines, Space Wolves, Black Templars, and Adepta Sororitas.
    AoCs: Grey Knights, Dark Angels, Blood Angels

    Death Korps: DKs don't take Morale checks from Shooting casualties. One of the biggest weaknesses of Imperial Guard...Gone. DKs also have an additional point of WS across the board. Yes. You will pay points for this rule.

    Iron Discipline: Krieg Officers have a 6" bubble of ATSKNF. Cool.

    Orders:
    Krieg Officers can't issue Orders to non-Krieg units. 'Kay. Makes sense to me.

    Senior Officers lose Fire on my Target and gain Duty Unto Death instead; Target unit re-rolls Morale checks until your next Shooting Phase. So, since Death Korps don't take Morale checks from Shooting, the goal is to run a unit under this Order straight into a losing combat. Gee, that's a good trade for pseudo-Ignores Cover.

    Instead of Incoming!, you replace it with Moves Through Cover. Since you don't take Morale checks from Shooting, Krieg is a lot less reliant on Cover that regular Guard are, anyway. It's a pretty terrible trade, but, not as bad as it would be if you didn't have extra special rules that blunt the badness.

    And you lose Move! Move! Move! for Without Mercy; Your Lasguns change to short-range Assault 2 weapons and you get Crusader. Considering that you're the Assault Brigade, think about what your list is designed to do...Now realise that this Order is kind of good.

    Warlord Traits
    1. Bad.
    2. A single weapon per shooting phase near the Warlord gains Ordnance. That's kind of cool.
    3. Your Warlord gains Fearless and FNP while on an objective. That would be really cool if you were Scoring. But, you aren't. So, while it seems good, it isn't really.
    4. Night Fight automatically on Turn 1. That's okay.
    5. While your Warlord is in your opponents' DZ, units near him gain Preferred Enemy (Infantry)? Cool, right? Wait...What is your Warlord doing in the opposing DZ?
    6. Shatter Defences at the start of the game.


    HQ
    Spoiler
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    Death Korps Marshal Karis Venner: For 65 Points, he has #5 Warlord Trait for some reason, Stubborn Ld10, counts as a Banner, and may have Eternal Warrior for a single phase of the game. If in a Challenge, he gains +D3 attacks at I-1 in addition to his normal attacks and his normal Initiative. He makes a nice Warlord when your TO gives bonus points, but, you really don't need him at all.
    Why is the leader of the Brigade a 'Marshal', and not a Brigadier?

    Death Korps Company Command Squad: I know what you're thinking. 100 Points for a Command? Really!? ...Yes. First, you're given a Regimental Standard as part of the points cost. So, you're paying 35 Points for the ATSNKF aura, and, you don't take Morale checks from shooting. The thing about Death Korps Commands, is that 'specialists' don't take up Veteran slots like they normally do. If you take a 'Medi-Pack', you in fact, gain a whole 'nother model, instead of using your Veterans. More bodies!

    Quartermaster; Guy with a Medi-Pack. FNP is good for you!
    Artillerist; For 30 Points, you gain a guy that can shoot a Griffon Barrage once per game. If if Ignored Cover, it would be bananas, but, it doesn't. However, this guy does give Night Vision to the squad. Which works very well with his Griffon Barrage on the first turn.
    Tech-Priest Militant; He comes with a Power Axe and Power Armour, that alone is worth his points cost. But, he also gives one weapon in his radius +1 to Armour Penetration rolls against vehicles.

    Carapace Armour; Offsetting the ludicrous up-front cost of the unit, CA is half the price that it normally is.

    Your 'free' Regimental Standard can be replaced with;
    Icon of Righteous Spite; Gain Hatred (Chaos Marines, Daemons, Psykers). Hatred or not, if you're in combat with any of those things, you're gonna die.
    Banner of Matyrdom; If this model is killed in Assault, gain a VP. That VP comes at the cost of probably getting your Warlord killed, as well as the fact that it must be done in Assault.
    Ossuary of the Blessed Dead; The whole unit gains +1T. With a points cost to match!
    Frankly, you're kind of better off leaving the Standard as-is and spending your points on other things.

    Vox-Casters; Are good.

    What's the catch? DK Company Command Squads can only have two special weapons, not four.
    Grenade Launcers and Plasma Guns are your only real choices. GLs are Assault weapons that you can use properly while your run forwards, and Plasma Guns can still be used in conjunction with Bring It Down!.

    Power Fist & Memento Mori; This is the only option for your Company Commander (I think you mean Brigadier!). Make sure you bring a Tech-Priest for more damage - give the Tech-Priest Melta Bombs.

    Death Korps Quartermaster Cadre: Pay 75 Points and an HQ Slot for something that doesn't give out Orders and only - yes, only - throws out FNP (6+) in a 6" radius. Garbage.


    Elites
    Spoiler
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    Death Korps Combat Engineer Squad: Carapace Armour, Shotguns, Acid Gas Bombs (they're good). Bring Carcass Shells to give your Shotguns Shred and Gets Hot! (it's worth it). Bring a Mole-Launcher. That's all they're good for. For extra cash-spending, due to the short-range of every single one of this squad's weapons, you need to bring a Hades Drill. Dearie dear. Have you seen the competition in Elites? ...Read on.

    Griffon Strike Battery: Yeah boi. Griffons in your Elites slots. And you can re-roll the Scatter Dice for no extra points cost.

    Leman Russ Forward Command Tank: For an minor points increase, pick any Leman Russ tank you want. It now has BS4. Furthermore, all Barrage weapons - vehicles, infantry, doesn't matter, all of them - may draw Line of Sight from the Leman Russ. Wow. Purple good.

    Hydra Flak Tank Battery: What are these doing in Elites slots!? 'Target units cannot claim a Jink save...' compared to the Codex Hydras that only work against Bikes and Skimmers.

    Death Korps Rapier Laser Destroyer Array: There's a very specific word people use to describe these things, but, while not strictly forbidden, it's still not a nice word to use in such a casual context. Point is, Rapiers. They're really, really good. Twin-Linked Lascannons with the Ordnance rule. For an absurdly cheap points cost, too.


    Troops
    Spoiler
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    Infantry Platoon: I assume you've read the other Imperial Guard Primer, and you're thinking; "Cheesegear, this can't be Red! Infantry Platoons are awesome!" But, that's only because you haven't seen what Krieg has done to it's poor, benighted souls.

    • Death Korps Platoon Command Squad: Pay 20 extra points just to nab the extra WS and ATSNKF aura. There's no Medi-Packs, and, like the Company Commands, you still only get two Special weapons.
    • Death Korps Infantry Squad: +20 Points. First thing you notice is that they can't take Heavy Weapons. That's cool. Just blob up and spam Special weapons and Axes - Krieg loves Assault! Except that DK Squads don't have Combine Squads like their Codex counterparts...So what's the point? I didn't know that it was possible to be worse than Penal Legion, but, here it is. What? Cheap way to spam Chimeras? ...WRONG! DK Infantry Squads can't take Chimeras! Everything that Codex Guard uses their Infantry for is gone. 'Nuff said.


    Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad: ...But wait! There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Storm Troopers in your Troops slot! They've got the Hot-Shots, they've got the Carapace. They've got Grenades. Two Special weapons. You can even bring a Vox and a Heavy Flamer (in addition to the special weapons)! You lose Special Operations - of course, just bring Chimeras. But, you're only 12 Points a model instead of 16 - and you Score.

    While DK Infantry Platoons are a pale imitation of their Codex counterparts. DK Stormtroopers are very good. Space Marines got you down? Never fear. ALL YOUR TROOPS HAVE AP3 WEAPONS AND DON'T SUCK LIKE THOUSAND SONS.


    Dedicated Transports:
    Spoiler
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    Storm Chimera: 75 Points, really? It has an Autocannon instead of a Multi-Laser, and only has two Fire Points instead of lots. But, that's really okay because Commands and Storm Troopers only have two Special Weapons anyway. Where the extra 20 Points comes in, is 15 Points for the 'free' Extra Armour that you're forced to take, and another 5 for Armoured Track Guards, which let you negate Immobilised results. The Extra Armour is kind of dumb, but the Track Guards are good.

    Centaur Carrier: It's a Dedicated Transport for five models. It's Open-Topped and has a Heavy Stubber for a weapon. I don't know what kind of trick you're trying to pull, but it's not even close to being a Land Speeder Storm, which laughs at this thing - like, a lot.

    Hades Breaching Drill: It's an IG Mawloc. When Deep Striking, you place a Blast Marker, not the model, which means you can intentionally put it over enemy models. Non-vehicles count as being Tank Shocked, with additional AP2 hits regardless of whatever else happens (like a Deffrolla). Vehicles and Buildings hit by the Drill take a S8, AP1, Melta hit on their weakest armour. It's a really cool tank, unfortunately, it's a Dedicated Transport, and the only unit that can take it are Combat Engineers - which aren't a great unit.


    Fast Attack
    Spoiler
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    Hell Hound, Devil Dog, Bane Wolf: The lack of Heavy weapons found in a Krieg list (Rapiers notwithstanding), the Devil Dog with it's Melta is slightly more important than the Hellhound than in a Codex Guard army. The Bane Wolf also steps up because a lot of the Krieg Assault Brigade is going to be moving forwards so the Bane Wolf isn't going to stick out like a sore thumb as much.

    Death Korps Death Rider Platoon: How to make Rough Riders not suck; Give them two Wounds and two Attacks each. Give them WS4. Let them re-roll Difficult Terrain checks. Give them 4+/6+FNP saves. Since when did Rough Riders get so good!?

    • Death Rider Command Squadron: It's a Junior Officer on a horse! Charge of the Light Dark Brigade, go! The only Order you'll ever be giving is Move Through Cover. But, how good is that on Cavalry? ...Very.
    • Death Rider Squadron: Pay an extra five points per model to make Rough Riders actually usable. I'll pay that.


    Salamander Reconnaissance Squadron: Pay 55 Points for a Scouting Autocannon. Pay another 20 Points, and you can give that Salamander a secondary Heavy Bolter, better Armour, and a Transport Capacity. Scout Sentinels these ain't.


    Heavy Support
    Spoiler
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    Death Korps Heavy Weapons Platoon: You can have 1-3 Heavy Weapons Squads identical to the ones found in Codex Guard, but, these teams don't Score and are in heavy competition for slots (pun unintended).

    Thunderer Siege Squadron: I don't know why these tanks exist. Probably to pander to WWII nerds. It's a Leman Russ Demolisher that can't take sponsons that doesn't have Lumbering Behemoth. I mean...Why?

    Leman Russ Tank Squadron:
    Battle Tank, Annihilator, Conqueror, Exterminator, Vanquisher, Eradicator, Demolisher, Punisher, Executioner.

    Death Korps Ordnance Tank Battery: Pick your favourite (sans Griffon, moved to Elites). Since they're drawing LoS from your Leman Russ Forward Command Tank (see Elites), there's no reason not to have them.

    Death Korps Field Artillery Battery: Heavy Mortars are fine and all. But Heavy Quad Guns (a.k.a. Thudd Guns), are basically Thunderfire Cannons - Heavy 4, Barrage, Blast - for half the price of an actual TfC. Really, really good.

    Imperial Navy Air Support: They're not Vendettas. Pay through the nose for Fliers with Autocannons and Missiles. ...Y'know, more WWII stuff that doesn't really belong in 40K, where a plane can have three laser beams that can blow holes in anything.
    Thunderbolt: Two Twin-Linked Autocannons and a Twin-Linked Lascannon. Could have been the best, but you are paying a lot of points for it. Why does a Vendetta with three TL-Lascannons and better armour cost less points?
    Lightning: One Autocannon, one Twin-Linked Lascannon, for 145 Points. Have you even seen a Stormtalon?
    Avenger: Avenger Bolt Cannon and two Lascannons and has better armour than the Thunderbolt, and has more Hull Points, and has Strafing Run, and costs less!
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  4. - Top - End - #1144
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Here are the recent Top 8 from one of the biggest US Tournaments 1750 last week;

    8. Eldar / Dark Eldar
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    (W) Farseer; Jetbike, Spirit Stone of Anath'lan - 130 Points
    Farseer; Jetbike, Shard of Anaris - 155 Points

    Dire Avengers (x5) - 65 Points
    + Wave Serpent; Twin-Linked Scatter Laser - 120 Points

    Guardian Defenders (x20); Bright Lance - 200 Points
    + Wave Serpent; Twin-Linked Scatter Laser - 120 Points

    Jetbikes (x3) - 51 Points
    Jetbikes (x3) - 51 Points

    Warp Spiders (x7) - 133 Points
    Wraithknight - 240 Points

    Baron Sarthonyx - 105 Points
    Kabalite Warriors (x10); Splinter Cannon - 100 Points

    Beastmasters (x5); x9 Khymerae, x6 Razorwing Flocks - 258 Points


    7. Eldar / Dark Eldar
    Spoiler
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    (W) Farseer - 170 Points
    Runes of Witnessing, Jetbike, Shard of Anaris

    Farseer - Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, Jetbike - 140 Points

    Jetbikes (x3)
    Jetbikes (x3)
    Jetbikes (x3)
    Jetbikes (x3)

    Warp Spiders (x8) - 152 Points
    Warp Spiders (x8) - 152 Points

    War Walkers (x3); Scatter Laser, Bright Lance - 210 Points
    War Walkers (x3); Scatter Laser, Bright Lance - 210 Points

    Baron Sarthonyx - 105 Points
    Kabalite Warriors (x5) - 45 Points

    Beastmasters (x5); x25 Khymerae - 360 Points


    Two Beast Star lists. The second one, in my brain, seems better simply because of the Flier Defence of the War Walkers, whereas the first list seems to rely on the Wraithknight to draw fire off of the Beast Pack. The second list seems to say "You know what, you're going to shoot the Beast Pack anyway...You do that."

    6. Necrons / Black Legion
    Spoiler
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    (W) Overlord - 300 Points
    Warscythe, Phylactery, Mindshackle Scarabs, Sempiternal Weave, Resurrection Orb, Phase Shifter
    + Catacomb Command Barge

    Overlord; Warscythe, Mindshackle Scarabs - 195 Points
    + Catacomb Command Barge

    Warriors (x6) + Night Scythe - 165 Points
    Warriors (x6) + Night Scythe - 165 Points

    Wraiths (x5) - 175 Points
    Wraiths (x4) - 140 Points

    Annihilation Barge - 90 Points
    Annihilation Barge - 90 Points

    Sorcerer - 180 Points
    Stave, ML2, Mark of Slaanesh, Gift of Mutation, Spell Familiar, Steed of Slaanesh, Last Memory of the Yuanthos

    Cultists (x16); Flamer - 79 Points
    Heldrake; Baleflamer - 170 Points


    Looks fairly simple. All the Scoring starts in Reserve, with the Sorcerer and the Cultists doing the Outflanking. For the first few turns, your opponent gets to shoot at Necron Wraiths or AV13 vehicles. Sounds like fun.

    5. Imperial Guard / Inquisition (Forge World!)
    Spoiler
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    (W) Lord Commissar - 70 Points

    Infantry Platoon - 496 Points
    - Platoon Command Squad
    - Infantry Squad; Autocannon, Power Axe
    - Infantry Squad; Autocannon, Power Axe
    - Infantry Squad; Autocannon, Power Axe
    - Infantry Squad; Autocannon, Power Axe
    - Infantry Squad
    - Sabre Weapons Battery (x3); Twin-Linked Lascannons

    Veteran Squad; Flamer - 75 Points

    Vendetta - 130 Points
    Vendetta - 130 Points
    Vendetta - 130 Points

    Field Artillery Battery (x3); Heavy Quad Launchers - 150 Points
    Field Artillery Battery (x3); Heavy Quad Launchers - 150 Points
    Field Artillery Battery (x3); Heavy Quad Launchers - 150 Points

    Inquisitor Coteaz - 100 Points

    Xenos Inquisitor - 94 Points
    x3 Servo Skulls, Rad Grenades, Psychotroke Grenades, Psyker

    Skyshield Landing Pad - 75 Points



    Look at the image. It explains everything that this list does. If you're going to abuse Forge World, that's how you do it! If your meta allows Forge World, play Guard!

    4. Chaos Space Marines / Daemons
    Spoiler
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    Kharn - 160 Points
    (W) Sorcerer; Sword, ML3, Spell Familiar - 125 Points

    Terminators (x3) - 112 Points
    x2; Power Axe, Combi-Plasma
    Champion; Power Maul, Combi-Plasma

    Cultists (x23) - 102 Points
    Cultists (x10) - 50 Points

    Heldrake; Baleflamer - 170 Points
    Heldrake; Baleflamer - 170 Points

    Obliterators (x2); Mark of Nurgle - 152 Points
    Obliterators (x2); Mark of Nurgle - 152 Points

    Bloodthirster; Greater Reward, Exalted Reward - 300 Points
    Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (x11) - 99 Points
    Flesh Hounds of Khorne (x10) - 160 Points


    Probably my favourite list in this Top 8. For all the 'OMG QUAD-HELDRAKES' that people seem to spout, fact is, it just doesn't happen. Nobody plays 1999+1 Points to make four Heldrakes viable. Anyway, this is an Assault list, so it wins double points in my mind for that (as opposed to Beast Stars, which have an Assault unit in a shooty army).

    3. Eldar
    Spoiler
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    (W) Farseer; Singing Spear - 105 Points
    Farseer - 100 Points

    Guardian Defenders (x20); x2 Bright Lances - 340 Points
    + Wave Serpent; Twin-Linked Scatter Laser

    Guardian Defenders (x20); x2 Bright Lances - 340 Points
    + Wave Serpent; Twin-Linked Scatter Laser

    Jetbikes (x3) - 51 Points
    Jetbikes (x3) - 51 Points
    Rangers (x5) - 60 Points

    Warp Spiders (x7) - 133 Points

    Vaul's Wrath Support Battery (x3); Shadow Weavers - 90 Points

    Wraithknight - 240 Points
    Wraithknight - 240 Points


    Same guy who ran this list, dropped to 1750. One unit of Warp Spiders dropped for a Weapons Battery. Again, I really list this list simply because it isn't a Death Star army.

    2. White Scars / Red Hunters (Forge World)
    Spoiler
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    (W) Kor'Sarro Kahn; Moondrakkan - 150 Points

    Bike Squad (x5); x2 Grav-Guns, Combi-Grav - 145 Points
    Bike Squad (x5); x2 Grav-Guns, Combi-Grav - 145 Points
    Bike Squad (x5); x2 Grav-Guns, Combi-Grav - 145 Points
    Bike Squad (x5); x2 Grav-Guns, Combi-Grav - 145 Points

    Stormtalon; Skyhammer Missile Launcher - 125 Points
    Thunderfire Cannon - 100 Points

    Chapter Master; Artificer Armour, Power Fist, Bike, Shield Eternal - 250 Points

    Bike Squad (x8); x2 Grav-Guns, Combi-Melta - 263 Points
    + Attack Bike; Multi-Melta

    Scout Squad (x5); Boltguns

    Stormtalon; Skyhammer Missile Launcher - 125 Points
    Thunderfire Cannon - 100 Points


    Again, for all the talk of 'OMG INQUISITION MAKES WHITE SCARS USELESS', that appears not to be the case. Using the Red Hunters' rules is just gravy.

    1. Eldar / Dark Eldar Don't open the spoiler. It's what you think it is.
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    (W) Farseer - 200 Points
    Singing Spear, Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, Jetbike, Spirit Stone of Anath'lan, Shard of Anaris

    Farseer; Singing Spear, Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing - 140 Points

    Warlocks (x8); Singing Spear, Jetbikes - 415 Points

    Dire Avengers (x5) + Wave Serpent; TL Scatter Laser, Holo-Field - 210 Points
    Dire Avengers (x5) + Wave Serpent; TL Scatter Laser, Holo-Field - 210 Points
    Dire Avengers (x5) + Wave Serpent; TL Scatter Laser, Holo-Field - 210 Points
    Dire Avengers (x5) + Wave Serpent; TL Scatter Laser, Holo-Field - 210 Points

    Baron Sarthonyx - 105 Points
    Kabalite Warriors (x5) - 45 Points


    ...Yep.
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  5. - Top - End - #1145
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    (W) Farseer - 170 Points
    Runes of Witnessing, Jetbike, Shard of Anaris
    Care to comment further on this? because i were just slightly courious about the reasoning behind giving such an expensive weapon to a farseer
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  6. - Top - End - #1146
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Care to comment further on this? because i were just slightly courious about the reasoning behind giving such an expensive weapon to a farseer
    What do you mean? Shard of Anaris gives Fearless. It's pretty much a must-have for anything even remotely pretending to be a Death Star.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Cheesegear is awesome

  7. - Top - End - #1147
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    1. Eldar / Dark Eldar Don't open the spoiler. It's what you think it is.
    All I want to know is: Was this the same guy (which was innovation and thus he is entitled to win his laurels as he sees fit) or was it someone else (and thus merely net-listed stagnation)?

    ....No prizes for guessing how I feel about the difference between the two.
    ~ CAUTION: May Contain Weasels ~
    RPG Characters What I Done Played As (Explained Badly)
    17 Things I Learned About 40k By Playing Dark Heresy
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  8. - Top - End - #1148
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    What do you mean? Shard of Anaris gives Fearless. It's pretty much a must-have for anything even remotely pretending to be a Death Star.
    Ahh thank you, i though it was for stabbing people in the face, it being vaguely sword-shaped and all
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    So, why's this Baron guy so good? Because I know only one DE player and his army is entirely vehicles.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    So, why's this Baron guy so good? Because I know only one DE player and his army is entirely vehicles.
    Because he's cheap and gives his unit Stealth+Hit and Run, along with a bunch of other minor stuff. This makes him excellent for sticking in a Seer Council deathstar.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Tome View Post
    Because he's cheap and gives his unit Stealth+Hit and Run, along with a bunch of other minor stuff. This makes him excellent for sticking in a Seer Council deathstar.
    Doesn't he hurt the mobility somewhat, being a Jump Infantry and not a Jetbike (so he can't move 2d6" in assault, turbo-boost 36", and the like)? I would've thought it would be because he makes it more likely that you decide turn/deployment order.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    He also has a 2++, and adds to going first (going second as a seer council is not good if there is not terrain).
    You use him to tank stuff, with fortune that is a 2++ rerollable. Problem is that a seercouncil gets cover saves so you can't use focus fire to go around him (though a 2+ and a 4++ rerollable is still pretty good).

    Basically its a old codex character in a new edition.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    So, why's this Baron guy so good? Because I know only one DE player and his army is entirely vehicles.
    From the Guide...

    Baron Sathonyx: He allows you to go first easier, he grants Stealth to his unit (Aegis Line!), and he gives Hit & Run and can re-roll the I-test on I6! So...He's never locked in combat.
    Also, he has a Shadow Field, coupled with Fortune, it's amazing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Volthawk View Post
    Doesn't he hurt the mobility somewhat
    He does. You really think that matters, though?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    From Jes Bickham on GW Digital's Facebook page:

    Some clarification on the rules we presented in White Dwarf today for some folks here: the Imperial Knights don't occupy any force organisation slots, they are not Lords of War, they are an army unto themselves. Something we forgot to say is that all Imperial Knights are scoring units, and if you're playing 3-6 as a primary detachment, pick one as your Warlord.
    6HP SCORING super heavies, with a 4++ against shooting for one facing.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Wait, can Chaos take those guys? If so then I am greatly interested.....
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Huh, much as playing a miniatures wargame based exclusively around giant robots punching each other out (without the assassination-centric nature of Warmahordes) sounds helluva fun, it is gonna be kind of expensive and annoying to have to buy a whole new army.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Tychris1 View Post
    Wait, can Chaos take those guys? If so then I am greatly interested.....
    At least for now, I'm pretty sure they don't specify what factions can ally with them, just that they can be taken as an allied detachment.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Wouldn't surprise me if in next week's WD there were some clarifications, especially as they omitted some stuff they planned on putting in.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Hmm. I wonder if I could convert some tyranid parts into something of roughly the right size. I still have a Tyrannofex I don't need and a lot of leg and body parts.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    So, a Knight Paladin is 375pts - in a typical 1500pts you'll have exactly 4 of them. At £85/$140US each, I've seen an awful lot of people decrying them as ungodly expensive.
    Yet I'm wondering - Is £340/$560 really too much for a brand new army? I wonder how it compares to some other quick and dirty armies bought from GW?

    Just for fun.... Let's buy as many Battleforces as we can, and then whatever we need to a) make it a legal FoC and b) whatever else might be a 'popular' choice to take us up to about £340 in value. We'll then stat the armies very roughly, rounding up to the nearest 50 or 100 point per units to represent wargear choices, artefacts, psychic powers, whatever else you might realistically want.

    Prices taken today, from www.Games-Workshop.com (UK language setting).

    £340 of Space Marines:
    Spoiler
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    2x "Iron Hands One-Click Collections" (I picked these because of all the boxed sets they most closely add up to £340 without needing extras, the other Chapters' sets will obviously vary depending on what combinations you might buy them in.)

    (2x Master of the Forge, 40x Tactical Marines, 10x Sternguard, 2x Dreadnought, 2x Vindicator

    Approximate points cost: 1480


    £340 of Eldar
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    4x Eldar Battleforces, 1x Farseer, 10x Aspect Warriors of your choice that aren't Dark Reapers.

    (40x Guardians, 4x Support Weapons, 4x Vypers, 20x Dire Avengers, 4x Wave Serpents, 1x Farseer, 10x Aspect Warriors)

    Approximate points cost: 1500pts


    £340 of Tyranids
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    3x Tyranid Swarm boxed sets and 1x Hive Tyrant.

    (1x Hive Tyrant, 30x Gargoyles, 120x Hormagaunts, 120x Termagaunts, 3x Carnifex, 12x Ripper Swarms)

    Approximate points cost: 2350pts


    £340 of Orks
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    5x Ork Battleforce, 1x Battlewagon.

    (1x Ork Warboss on Bike, 14x Nobs on Warbikes, 100x Ork Boys, 5x Trukks, 1x Battlewagon)

    Approximate points cost: 1800


    I find that really interesting, to be honest. You're buying more Knights than you legally need to (minimum 3 for a detachment, you have 4) and yet in terms of points-to-price ratio you're not a million miles away from other armies - hordes have always had the advantage here, so it's not surprising to see that you get more Tyranid models for your money than Space Marines.

    Of course, the real question is, how do they compare rules-wise on the tabletop? We won't know that until we see some games being played, but I'm finding myself all the more optimistic for seeing that they're not necessarily as over-priced as some people have been saying.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    I'm not expecting pure knight armies to cope hugely well personally. They're big, tough and have a lot of good dakka but there's ultimately not enough to stop them from being shot to the warp and back by a prepared army. As part of a larger mixed force on the other hand I think they'll be a good equivalent to Riptides and Wraithknights. A big durable distraction that can dish out the pain while other stuff moves around without getting shot as much.
    Sanity is nice to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    £340 of Tyranids
    3x Tyranid Swarm boxed sets and 1x Hive Tyrant.

    (1x Hive Tyrant, 30x Gargoyles, 120x Hormagaunts, 120x Termagaunts, 3x Carnifex, 12x Ripper Swarms)

    Approximate points cost: 2350pts
    While I agree with the conclusion that 4 Knights isn't overpriced, I must point out that's in no way a useful Tyranid comparison: it has only one Synapse creature, and 9 troops choices.

    A (slightly) better one might be:

    1x Living Fortress boxed set, 2x Tyranid Swarm boxed set
    (2x Hive Tyrants, 6x Hive Guard, 20x Gargoyles, 80x Hormagaunts, 80x Termagaunts, 8x Rippers, 2x Carnefex)

    Approximate points cost: 1900ish
    Money: £360

    Slightly more expensive, but actually usable at once (except the rippers).
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Hello everyone, long time lurker here.


    We've got a tournament at our lockal club coming up at 1250pts and I was thinking of what list to bring.
    Usually I bring all kinds of funny lists with Penal legion, storm troopers, ect. and help new players to learn the game.
    However we do have a number of veteran players, with quite a number of Tau and Eldar (fortunately no Seer councils and ripptide spam), but a lot of hammerheads and fusion suits, since they do know that i like to bring Mech lists with lots of Russes.

    Since it's a tournament, i was thinking of bringing a more optimised list that would be different them my standart for the surprise factor. So I decided to use my new Vulture, get the Vendettas out of the displaycase and make somewhat of a AirCav list. The local meta hardly has any flying units on the table and maybe a tournament will be the right place to spring a more WAAC list.

    So here is the list for 1250pts:

    LC stands for Las Cannon.

    HQ:
    Company Command- 115pts (LC/Astropath/Banner)

    Troops:
    Platoon 1:
    Platoon commander- 40pts (2xFlamer - Rides in Vendetta)

    Infantry Squad - 75pts (Flamer/LC)
    Infantry Squad - 75pts (Flamer/LC)
    Infantry Squad - 75pts (Flamer/LC)

    Platoon 2:
    Platoon commander- 40pts (2xFlamer - Rides in Vendetta)


    Infantry Squad - 70pts (LC)
    Infantry Squad - 70pts (LC)
    Fast:
    Vendeta-130pts
    Vendeta-130pts
    Vulture-170pts (Twin-Linked Punisher Cannons/Heavy Bolter/Chaf Launchers)

    Heavy:
    Manticore-160pts (Heavy Flamer)

    Fortification:
    Aegis Line - 100pts (Quadgun)

    Allies are out of the question, i juist don't like using them and the local meta is quite friendly and a lack of allies won't be crippling to a list.
    Last edited by HoldTheLine31; 2014-02-24 at 10:59 AM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    So, here's a Knight List:

    Primary Detachment: IG

    CCS - 2x Plasma Guns, Vox Caster
    Veterans - 3x Plasma Guns, Vox Caster
    Veterans - 3x Plasma Guns, Vox Caster
    Vendetta x3

    715

    Allied Detachment: Knights

    Knight (pick your flavour) x3.
    1110-1125

    Yeah.
    Last edited by thedavo; 2014-02-24 at 02:10 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Okay. Slightly special situation that requires some explanation first.

    My shop runs a special campaign. A build campaign. There's a game every two months, and for every game, you have to bring more painted miniatures. Good business for the shop, of course, but we also get 10% of everything as long as we buy regularly.

    So, for the first game, we got 250 points for HQ and 300 points for standard. We got to customize our HQ with rules we made up ourselves. Mine's the Tunnel-Tyrant. A tyrant with a trygon's tunnel ability. Got it cheap. Plus regeneration, 12 synchronized shots, FnP from psychic powers, etc.

    For the next game, we get another 50 points of HQ (our HQs can get units to accompany them), which will be a single tyrant guard.

    Anyway, that's not the question. My current troops are 32 termagants, 8 of which have better guns, and 3 warriors with hooks and toxin.

    I'm now thinking about what to add next. Since I'm playing hive fleet Jormungander and focusing on tunnelling, I'm thinking more tunnelling creatures. We get 300 points.

    Looking at my models, I have some plans.

    Either:
    Trygon Alpha and 10 hormagaunts with adrenal glands
    or
    Mawloc and ?

    What do people think?



    Our first game was awesome, by the way. The game was 3 vs. 3 people. Our side was two tyranids and a chaos player.

    So, our setup was:
    Player 1: 75 termagants, hive tyrant
    Player 2: About 20 cultists, some chaos space marines in a rhino and a chaos lord
    Player 3: 32 termagants, 3 warriors and a hive tyrant that came out in our opponent's back.

    We played against tripple marines. Blood Ravens (not sure about chapter tactics), Black Templars and Dark Angels. They had no chance whatsoever.

    By turn three, we had wiped them from the table. I lost ten of my gants, the others some more cannonfodder and there was nothing left. We had every single objective, too.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by thedavo View Post
    So, here's a Knight List:

    Primary Detachment: IG

    CCS - 2x Plasma Guns, Vox Caster
    Veterans - 3x Plasma Guns, Vox Caster
    Veterans - 3x Plasma Guns, Vox Caster
    Vendetta x3

    715

    Allied Detachment: Knights

    Knight (pick your flavour) x3.
    1110-1125

    Yeah.
    Three Vendettas and three Knights? You monster.

    Personally, I recommend the Battlecannon Knights (Paladins?), as they have longer range, are cheaper, and are better against hordes, light-tank spam, and other-army's AA options. You should have no problem with heavy-tanks or heavy-infantry, what with the plasma-stuffed vendettas.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by HoldTheLine31 View Post
    HQ:
    Company Command- 115pts (LC/Astropath/Banner)

    Troops:
    Platoon 1:
    Platoon commander- 40pts (2xFlamer - Rides in Vendetta)

    Infantry Squad - 75pts (Flamer/LC)
    Infantry Squad - 75pts (Flamer/LC)
    Infantry Squad - 75pts (Flamer/LC)

    Platoon 2:
    Platoon commande r- 40pts (2xFlamer - Rides in Vendetta)
    Infantry Squad - 70pts (LC)
    Infantry Squad - 70pts (LC)

    Fast:
    Vendeta-130pts
    Vendeta-130pts
    Vulture - 170pts (Twin-Linked Punisher Cannons/Heavy Bolter/Chaf Launchers)

    Heavy:
    Manticore-160pts (Heavy Flamer)

    Fortification:
    Aegis Line - 100pts (Quadgun)
    For a 'WAAC' list you have misused points at nearly every possible location. Regimental Standards do nothing. That's what you have Get Back in the Fight! for.

    Platoon Commands; Why Flamers? Why anything at all? Every single one of your other squads has Flamers up to the eyeballs.
    Infantry Squads; Why Lascannons? Does your meta have an over-abundance of AV13 you're not telling us about? And why in Emperor's name are you pairing Lascannons with Flamers? That makes no sense. Either you plan to be moving forwards with the Flamers, in which case Autocannons are the better choice since Snap Shotting with single-shot weapons sucks, or you're staying back with the Lascannons and the Flamers do nothing. If you're planning on the Flamers being an Assault-deterrant...Fine. Your opponent stands back and shoots you with AP5 guns that every army I can think of, has. And you have Vendettas, if I'm counting right, you have twelve Lascannons in your list. What for?

    Spoiler
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    Company Command Squad - 85 Points
    Vox-Caster, Astropath

    Infantry Platoon - 210 Points
    - Platoon Command Squad; x2 Grenade Launchers
    - Infantry Squad; Grenade Launcher, Vox-Caster, Autocannon
    - Infantry Squad; Grenade Launcher, Autocannon
    - Infantry Squad; Grenade Launcher, Autocannon

    Infantry Platoon - 195 Points
    - Platoon Command Squad; x4 Flamers
    - Infantry Squad; Vox-Caster, Lascannon
    - Infantry Squad; Lascannon

    Vendetta - 130 Points
    Vendetta - 130 Points

    Vulture - 165 Points
    Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Twin-Linked Punisher Gatling Cannon

    Manticore Rocket Launcher - 160 Points

    Aegis Defense Line; Quad-Gun - 100 Points


    Total: 1175. Gives you 75 Points to play with. My preference would be a Special Weapons Squad with three Meltaguns. Or - happily enough - Marbo, and two more Grenade Launchers on the PCS to max it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by thedavo View Post
    So, here's a Knight List:

    Primary Detachment: IG

    CCS - 2x Plasma Guns, Vox Caster
    Veterans - 3x Plasma Guns, Vox Caster
    Veterans - 3x Plasma Guns, Vox Caster
    Vendetta x3

    715

    Allied Detachment: Knights

    Knight (pick your flavour) x3.
    1110-1125

    Yeah.
    I would love to play against this list with my Sternguard list that I've been using ever since Tyranids came out (in fact I'm kind of counting on people to go all-out on Knights just so I can wreck it. Bigger != Better. l2p.). Destroy two Knights in the first turn, while I spend the next few turns trying to kill the last one. Let the Vendettas shoot their Lascannons at Foot-Marines, it will do nothing. Vendettas don't have Fire Points. You want to shoot your Plasma at me, you have to come out of your shells.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2014-02-25 at 01:42 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    I would love to play against this list with my Sternguard list that I've been using ever since Tyranids came out (in fact I'm kind of counting on people to go all-out on Knights just so I can wreck it. Bigger != Better. l2p.). Destroy two Knights in the first turn, while I spend the next few turns trying to kill the last one. Let the Vendettas shoot their Lascannons at Foot-Marines, it will do nothing. Vendettas don't have Fire Points. You want to shoot your Plasma at me, you have to come out of your shells.
    Lol... the list I have that uses vendettas simply carries bare bones 50 point platoon squads. If you shoot down a vendetta, odds are darn good at least 1 or 2 scoring guardsmen will survive the impact. Otherwise, they drop onto distant objectives turn 5 and try to stay out of LOS till the game ends.

    Meanwhile the REST of my list doesnt care about scorring- only destroying my opponent's ability to score or contest.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    Lol... the list I have that uses vendettas simply carries bare bones 50 point platoon squads.
    And that's fine. What you don't have 1100 Points tied up in three models, two of which will be destroyed on the first turn. I also assume that you have Scoring units that aren't in Vendettas.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidhawk View Post
    Slightly more expensive, but actually usable at once (except the rippers).
    Fair enough. Like I said, it was quick and dirty - I literally just picked the first box I could see that looked like it was almost a multiple of 340.

    Even so, your list matches the same conclusion that mine did - against expectation, it turns out that it's actually cheaper, points-to-pounds, to buy a Horde army than it is a smaller, 'elitist' one. It's not even based on the age of the associated book - Tyranids are brand new, Orks are the oldest remaining Codex, and they both still come out ahead in terms of points total.

    Well, *I* think it's interesting, anyway.
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