Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

[Caxton]

I R teh Nub. I meant melta.

Would love some heavy flamers, but I'm loathe to give up points anywhere, as I'd have to either drop a couple of sisters (and 6x T3 girls won't stand up to much as it is, even if they are 3+/6++) or punt an exorcist, though that would allow 3 heavy flamers for the girls, combi bolters for the remaining 2 exorcists and 5 more seraphim. Hmmm... I think that's probably the way to go.

Speaking of seraphim, is it worth dropping one to make one a superior with melta bombs?

I'd be magnetising the weapons (assuming that can be done with these models), but I'd probably run all but maybe 1 with the twin linked multi melta as it's the only source of AA I've got.

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were paying the full points for the plasma, which after replacement would yield more than enough points to switch to heavy flamers. Honestly, why NOT drop a sister from the 6-girl squads? As you say, they won't stand up to much anyway, so why not maximize your advantage of 2 weapons per 5 models? Remember that you take ld tests for 25% damage, so you will end up taking the test after the second casualty either way. Drop 2 squads down to 5 and you have enough points to turn flamers into heavy flamers with a small bit leftover.

Honestly I'm not a fan of the storm bolters on Exorcists. By the time you could take your 50% chance to not lose the organ, you are at least 1/3 dead. I feel like it is paying points to attempt to salvage a tank that already has one foot in death's door. But hey, when it works it is great! If it were me though, I'd look to use those last marginal points on combi-weapons for superiors.

[Cheesegear]

I don't think this was legal. You cannot ever shoot more than two missiles per turn.

Ah, I may be misremembering. I shot two Missiles, hit twice, dealt two auto-Perils Wounds and dealt two Wounds after that for four. Because I know I didn't shoot four Missiles with my second Stormraven in the last turn.

I Coteaz really was expecting those Horrors to come down late-game though. That's what Daemon Allies are for, because Chaos Marines can't do anything like that on their own.

EDIT: ...I meant to make a joke about me my Warlord having a special ability that manifests itself IRL, but it turns out when you strike an I, it makes the Inquisition symbol. Thanks, Playground!

[Yaktan]

So... I made another 1500 point list, this time Tau with a splash of chaos marines. The marines actually bring no marines, only a squad of cultists to screen some units, and a deamon prince.
The Tau are running a really over the top farsight bomb, with a hammerhead as sniper/supporting fire.

Spoiler

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Warlord, Comander farsight

HQ2, 2nd HQ, Commander
1 got Command and control node, Multispectrum sensor suite, Nuroweb system jammer, drone controller, and stimulant injector
Vectored retro thrusters
Flamer, 2 missile drones

Crisis body guards (7x)
Each taking 2 plasma rifles and vectored retro thrusters
14 missile drones


troops 1, fire warriors(6x)
2 marker drones 48

troops 2, fire warriors(6x)
2 marker drones 48

Heavy support, Hamerhead Gun ship
Black sun filter, Disruption pod

Allied HQ, Demon prince of saalesh
Wings, 2 mastery levels, The Black Mace, Power armor, Ichore blood
Gift of mutation

Allied troops, Chaos Cultists(x11)

As long as the reserve rolls work out, the farsight murder squad drops anywere with no scatter. A 25 strong unit, featuring 32 twinlinked BS 5 S7 AP4 shots, and even at maximum range 15 twinlinked BS 3 S6 AP2 shots. Anything that tries to get in rapid fire range eats gets hot rolls, while charging units take a flamer to the face. And above all that they hit and run on farsights I5... letting them ditch assaults before most things can take a swing at them.

The deamon lord is for breaking anything really... he should go first and straight up murder whatever he ends up assaulting. Also sort of a distrationfex, he will probably be the target of everything that can hit him, all hopes for a good roll on the biomancy table... he needs his FNP/IWND, though iron arm would not go amiss.

The firewarriors are sort of there to fill space... and distribute marker tokens so the hammer head can jelly whatever it's shooting at.

This list seems a bit light on the troops, with only three small squads at 1500 points. And none of those three are particularly sturdy.

As mentioned before, the errata made missile drones broadside-only.

Also, the VRT only needs to be on one suit, since the hit-and-run rule specifies that only one model needs it, and you won't have fleet anyway with Farsight and the drones.

One thing to note, bodyguards can take the signature systems without using up their equipment slots, so you can make one bodyguard be in charge of buffing with all the signature systems you want, your VRT, and a flamer for overwatch, while your commander rocks out with his BS5.

Also, your list seems a bit light on the anti-tank side. I would suggest switching some of the bodyguards to fusion blasters, and give those target locks so when you land those can happily melt a land raider or something while Farsight and the rest go to town on infantry.

Also, I am dubious about the firewarriors having markerlights. You could put the marker drones in their own squad for cheaper, and they could have separate targets.

[LordDavenport]

This list seems a bit light on the troops, with only three small squads at 1500 points. And none of those three are particularly sturdy.

yeah... I was thinking about dropping the deamon prince and the cultists for a chaos sorceror/lord and some flavor of CSM troops for a resilient troop choice. Though I am having some issues... why are kohrnate bezerkers a good idea? I get they boost WS and can cheaply get more attacks with chain axes, but they are AP 4 S4... naked the chosen seem a better choice, and they can get icon of excess for FNP.

What would be a good cheap CSM unit of scoring troops?

As mentioned before, the errata made missile drones broadside-only.

switching them up to gun drones... which if I give all the body guards target lock in place of the retro thrusters. Which means everyone can spread out their fire.

One thing to note, bodyguards can take the signature systems without using up their equipment slots, so you can make one bodyguard be in charge of buffing with all the signature systems you want, your VRT, and a flamer for overwatch, while your commander rocks out with his BS5.

See, but if we give the comander all that stuff, and a drone controller he gives all the drones BS 5. 32 BS 5 AP 5 S5 twinlinked shots with pinning and ignore cover should deal with any infantry... hell it might glance to death AV 11 targets.

Also, your list seems a bit light on the anti-tank side. I would suggest switching some of the bodyguards to fusion blasters, and give those target locks so when you land those can happily melt a land raider or something while Farsight and the rest go to town on infantry.

That... is a really good point. I mean, the hammer head is around for breaking tanks, but not as much as it could be.

Also, I am dubious about the firewarriors having markerlights. You could put the marker drones in their own squad for cheaper, and they could have separate targets.

48 points for the 4 v.s. 56 points for the same as its own squad. So actually losing 8 points by having them in their own squad. From their it cost an extra 3 points/model over taking them as part of a squad.

Those 8 points are actually semi relevant, so yeah... though separating them out lets them light up targets for the hammer head. Though I kinda want to drop them to just add longstrike to the hammer head for 3 points less. That would boost the BS of the hammer head more consistently, and provide some nice covering fire for the firewarriors. Then again, it makes the hammer head even more of a target.

After your comments, I tweaked the list.
[SPOILER]

Spoiler

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Warlord, Comander farsight

HQ2, 2nd HQ, Commander
Command and control node, Multispectrum sensor suite, Nuroweb system jammer.
drone controller, stimulant injector, Vectored retro thrusters, Flamer,
2 gun drones

Crisis body guards (7x)
1x(target lock, cyclic ion blaster, Airbursting Fragmentation Projector)
3x(Target Lock, 2 plasma rifles)
3x(target lock, 2 fusion blasters)
14 gun drones

troops, fire warriors(6x) x2

Heavy support, Hamerhead Gun ship
Commander Long strike, Black sun filter, Disruption pod

Allied HQ, Demon prince of saalesh
Wings, 2 mastery levels, The Black Mace, Power armor, Ichore blood
Gift of mutation

Allied troops, Chaos Cultists(x11)

3 points under 1500, haven't done anything to the allies.

[Yaktan]

The commander can shoot and use the drone controller. He just has to have it for the gun drones to get BS5.

Also, to take drones with your firewarriors requires upgrading to the sha'ui (which is otherwise of marginal benefit) so separating them out would actually save you points if you kept them.

I myself have found that I prefer fusion blasters over plasma rifles in general. Right now my crisis suits have both because the box only come with one of each for each suit, but I will switch them to all fusion once I get more fusion blasters. The reason is that I find the rapid fire of the plasma to be somewhat of a trap. It is only 12 inches, which means once you have all the fat suits in rapid fire range you are going to have lots of trouble jumping away enough to be out of charge range. Assault is bad news for Tau, and while the Farsight bomb would do better in assault than Shadowsun and a squad of suits, even if they win they are doing way less damage than they could shooting. On the fusion blaster side, I find that 18 inches is plenty and even outside of melta range the boost from S6 to S8 is big.

[LordDavenport]

There aactually isn't any good reason I now reaslize. Back with vactored retors for all, the drone controller wouldn't have fit besides the armerments and injectors. Now it will totally fit.

For the plasma conversion... yeah, I think the two once per detachment wepons/gun drones can cover infantry/terminators so the suits can focus on AV 14 stuff.


and you make a point on the drones, I didn't notice that it took a sargent...

Well I was thinking of flipping over to longstrike anyhow for more power out of the hammer head.

[Drasius]

Would a fantasy mutalith vortex beast:



be an acceptable counts as tzeentch soul grinder with warp gaze;



in a 40k game (with a bit of conversion work to show the harvester cannon)?

Or would I be better off with a decimator;



With sufficient green stuff to make it a bit more daemony?

Or neither?

[DaedalusMkV]

I would say either option would be very acceptable, though you might get into some degree of trouble with the Decimator because it's substantially smaller than a Soul Grinder is. The Mutalith is, IIRC, actually about as tall and a bit longer, but a little bit less wide, so you should be able to get away with it pretty well.

On the other hand, both options are way more expensive than an actual Soul Grinder, so I'd strongly suggest going for whatever you find more aesthetically pleasing if you're going through with it.

[Cheesegear]

Have you ever seen Tau Fire Warriors Charge a Knight with EMP Grenades? Stomp happens at I1, Fire Warriors have that glorious I2. Best thing I've seen in a while.

[Squark]

Have you ever seen Tau Fire Warriors Charge a Knight with EMP Grenades? Stomp happens at I1, Fire Warriors have that glorious I2. Best thing I've seen in a while.

*snort* MUHAHAHAHA!

[Drasius]

I would say either option would be very acceptable, though you might get into some degree of trouble with the Decimator because it's substantially smaller than a Soul Grinder is. The Mutalith is, IIRC, actually about as tall and a bit longer, but a little bit less wide, so you should be able to get away with it pretty well.

On the other hand, both options are way more expensive than an actual Soul Grinder, so I'd strongly suggest going for whatever you find more aesthetically pleasing if you're going through with it.

Cool, Our blackshirt here reckons putting them on a couple of overlapping CD's or similar (and a rather tall scenic base for the Decimator) and then registering anything that can see/hit the base would be acceptable.

Also, Dunno about elsewhere, but the Soul Grinder is $110 AUD, the Mutalith is $96 AUD and a Decimator and 2 weapons is about $102 AUD, so it's actually the other way 'round, but then, cost isn't an issue as long as it looks cool as far as I'm concerned.

Also, I ordered that SoB list posted earlier, fingers X'ed it will come in next week, but last time it took almost 4 weeks to get celstine and 10 seraphim, so I'm not holding my breath.

@ Cheesegear, are you at this invitational tourney thing down there this weekend? And was it pink/purplish tau that managed that?

Edit:

Helbrute dataslate out, some rather interesting options;

http://www.talkwargaming.com/2014/03...lkWargaming%29

No force org requirements, just usual ally BB/AoC/DA/CtA restrictions. No extra points for any of the formations.

Mayhem pack: take 3 Helbrutes, All must begin in reserve, roll reserves once, all may deep strike (together), all gain IWND, if 1 takes a crazed test, all 3 abide by the same result.

Helcult: 1 Kharn Helbrute and 2 units of cultists, Helbrute gets Rage, any to hit's of a 1 hit a random model within 6", Cultists get fearless until Helbrute is destroyed, then they get Zealot, If the helbrute can gain a cover save via at least 1 cultist, he gains a 3+ cover save, but you remove a cultist for each save passed in this way.

Murderpack: 5 (!) Helbrutes as a squadron, one get character status and a 5++, other 4 can take a LOS roll for him if within 6", if any 1 of them gets a crazed marker, you don't roll, you instead pick which one from the table and it applies to the entire squad., if the champion gets destroyed, remaining helbrutes get rage.

Unholy crap. Imagine a CSM list with 12 helbrutes (3 of which deepstrike)

HQ

255 - Daemon Prince of Khorne, Wings, Power Armour, Axe of Blind Fury

Troops

50 - 10x Cultists
50 - 10x Cultists

Elites

105 - Helbrute
105 - Helbrute
105 - Helbrute

Mayhem Pack

105 - Helbrute
105 - Helbrute
105 - Helbrute

Helcult

105 - Helbrute
50 - 10 x Cultists
50 - 10x Cultists

Murderpack

105 - Helbrute
105 - Helbrute
105 - Helbrute
105 - Helbrute
105 - Helbrute

1715

Remaining points to upgrades or a handful more cultists. Smash face brutally. Helbrutally even.

[hamishspence]

Any thoughts on the new Stormtrooper models and transport?

I think that the "jeep with 4 tracks instead of 4 wheels" is a pretty interesting look.

[LordDavenport]

So, this time a 500 point list for playing around on vassal. Have only run it once, against an orc list... it lost, but mostly do to some misplays.

Spoiler: list

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Etherial
Fire Warrior Team(x9) with EMP grenades
Fire Warrior Team(x8)
Fire Warrior Team(x7)
Hammerhead Gunship
darksun filter, Sub-munition rounds and railgun, two gun drones.
XV88 Broadside Team
Velocity tracker, twinlinked high yield missile pod, twinlinked smart missile system

The Hamerhead and broadside are there for specific otherwise impossible foes... AV14/terminators and flyers respectively. Though they add nice high power dakka to the list. The list does lack any marklighters, but I figured more scoring units outwayed the benefit of a squad of pathfinders...

[13_CBS]

Any thoughts on the new Stormtrooper models and transport?

I think that the "jeep with 4 tracks instead of 4 wheels" is a pretty interesting look.

I kinda think of the opposite; it looks like an oversized toy truck that mysteriously has tracks instead of wheels.

The new Stor--er, "Tempestus Scions" have sweet helmets, but I'm a little less sure about the carapace armor chestplates. The trimmings just seem...a little too ornate for Guard, even if it's Scions. I feel like they'd fit better on Astartes Scouts or Sororitas.

[Cheesegear]

War Zone: Damocles

White Scars, Raven Guard (not really), Imperial Guard and Knights vs. Tau Empire

Imperial Forces

Spoiler

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Space Marines
Armoured Vanguard Squadron: Rhinos and Razorbacks. All Tanks in the Formation gain Assault Vehicle and Tank Hunters. It's more useful to spam Razorbacks since you can actually make use out of Tank Hunters, but, if Rhinos are Assault Vehicles, spamming them means more bodies in the Tanks to maximise their Assaults.
Whatever. You can definitely field one or the other in any Space Marine army and it will work. What Space Marine player doesn't have Rhinos/Razorbacks lying around?

Stormclad Squadron: Stormtalons and a Thunderhawk. Once 'Talon per Shooting phase can't shoot, in return, the Thunderhawk has Night Vision and Preferred Enemy. Furthermore, the Thunderhawk basically gets Look Out, Sir! except doesn't need to roll. If you've got a Thunderhawk, you'll be taking it anyway, and I know you're a Space Marine player so you definitely have two or more Stormtalons. If you've got the Formation, good, use it. Personally, I don't find Thunderhawks all that useful, especially when three Stormravens cost the same points and currency and you can use the Stormravens more.

Hunting Force: Forgot to put Kor'Sarro in the front. So, it's a generic (i.e; any Chapter can use it) half-Company worth of Bikes. Everybody has Scout and Outflank for free (who needs Kor'Sarro?) and Preferred Enemy against an opposing Formation. That's amazing. Furthermore, the Bike squads don't even need to be at full strength. If you're a Space Marine player who has 3 squads of Bikes lying around, you. Are. Taking. This. The only specific thing that you'll need to pick up are the Scout Bikes. But, remember, they don't need to be at full strength.

Stormbringer Squadron: A Formation of Land Speeders and Land Speeder Storms. Like the Rhino/Razorback Formation, it has a set of rules, that either of the units in the Formation can straight up ignore. Land Speeders get Scout, well, Storms already have that. Models can get out of Vehicles in the Scout move and force a Pinning check before the first turn (lol), but 'Speeders don't carry models so the rule doesn't really work...Yeah. You get the idea.

Furion Peak Counter-Strike Command: High Command Formation consisting of Shrike, Khan, a White Scars Librarian, and a Raven Guard Captain. Which is stupid because in the story, the Raven Guard bring in their Chapter Master, and in the force disposition lists, the Raven Guard don't have a Captain on the field, they have a Chapter Master. Anyway, it's a High Command with four models. It goes about as well as you'd expect. The Librarian has a Shrouded aura and that's about it. Except in the fluff, it's not an aura, it's like, area-wide. IMO, the aura should be at least 24" and be Stealth and Shrouded. Anyway, this High Command is pretty bad. Since the High Command is also from two different Chapters, they can't even go in the same Transport.

Imperial Guard
Hellstorm Squadron: A bunch of Hellhounds, that can fire with the Hellstorm Template and tack on Instant Death. Cool.

Steel Phalanx Tank Squadron: The full 10 Formation from the generic book burning your wallet? This Formation is only 3-5 Leman Russes. But, it's also not as good. You get bonuses to your Tank Shocks, that's about it.

'Rain of Fire' Direct Support Battery: A bunch of Basilisks with half-range. In return for the fact that your guns are still have a range of 120", you can re-roll the Scatter. Use 'em if you've got 'em.

Imperial Knights
The Obsidian Knight: Get it? Hur, hur, hur. Anyway, it's a Knight Paladin Seneschal with Preferred Enemy (Tau).

Imperial Knight Household Spearhead: Knights. At Deployment, choose either Scout or Interceptor. The Formation gets it. If you're the kind of person who has bought 3-5 Titans to play as an army, just field it in Apocalypse. Easy.

(WS) The Star Hunt: For one turn, White Scars have Fleet and Furious Charge. No thanks.
(RG) Embrace the Darkness: All Raven Guard have Scout and Stealth. This makes up for the fact that Raven Guard Chapter Tactics don't make any sense. But, you're using an Asset to fix it, and that's not the best use of your limited resources.
(IG) Gravity Mines: Mines. That effect all models - including Fliers.
(IK) Charge!: Your Imperial Knights have better Charges for one turn.
(IK) Beast Hunters: Your Knights have Monster Hunter for the game. In the campaign itself, this is pretty bad, since the only Monsters around are Riptides. But in regular Apocalypse, it's actually really good since MCs are all over the place. If they aren't, then don't pick this Asset. Easy.
(IK) Patriarch Tybalt: One of your Knights is upgraded to Seneschal for 'free' (an Asset) and then gains one USR from a list. Remember, Assets are chosen. And then you choose a USR again. You're not locked in to anything that you don't want.

The Fluff sucks. It's Hunt for Voldorius all over again, where Khan is in over his head, Shrike comes in, and drops some knowledge, and now Khan and Shrike hate each other except that they don't. What are the Raven Guard even doing in the Damocles Gulf? Deliverance is in the Segmentum Tempestus on the other side of the Galaxy, not only did the Raven Guard not even fight in the first Damocles Crusade, but, they're a long way from home. Why not do a White Scars/Iron Hands campaign? That would at least have made sense and create a better story dynamic. Anyway, the Formations in the book are actually generic, for any Space Marine player. The only Formation that's army specific is the High Command which you should absolutely not take anyway. So, if you like the Formations that you saw, get the book. For Imperial Guard, meh. It's Tank Formations, except smaller so more affordable. The Knight Formations are both pretty lame.

I'm not impressed by this book at all. I'm sure the novel makes everything make sense. But, I'm not reading the novel, am I?

Tau Empire

Spoiler

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Shadowsun's Firststrike Assault Hunter Cadre: It's a lot of stuff, and requires 8 Devilfish. Basically, it's a Fire Warrior/Crisis Suit Formation and it's massive. If it's wearing a suit, then it's in the Formation. Everything near Shadowsun has Fearless and Preferred Enemy. Not bad if you can afford it.

Piranha Firestream Squadron: Five Piranhas. Everytime they enter Reserves (which they can choose to do, like Fliers), they come back on the board at full strength. Got the Formation down to one Prianha with one HP? Leave the table. Come back on with five Piranhas with full HPs.

Ethereal Council: High Command. You'll need that 3++. Must include at least at least 3 Ethereals, may include Aun'Va and Aun'Shi. The Leadership aura is increased. Furthermore, each Ethereal can use two powers per turn. It's not great. Especially since the powers don't stack. Furthermore, if your opponent destroys this Formation they get another VP.

Hunter Cadre: ALL THE THINGS! The entire Formation has Acute Senses, which doesn't matter, because the entire Formation can't Outflank so Acute Senses does nothing. They can arrive on the first turn, which they can anyway, because it's Apocalypse. Until this Formation is Errata'd to have Outflank (it's GW, good luck with getting Errata in 2014), it's pretty much useless. Don't bother. More than half the models you need can be put into Shadowsun's Formation, so, use that one instead.

Drone-net VX1-0: 12+ Drones. That's it. 12-to-Infinity. All Drones get +1 BS. For such an easy Formation to make, why not?

Hammerhead Interdiction Cadre: 3-5 Hammerheads that shoot out free Markerlight tokens every turn. Good. Get it.

Paradox Squadron: It's a Sun Shark Formation with an RNG element that will mess up your entire battle plan. It's a Str-D weapon, that, if you roll a '1', accidentally restores all Wounds and HPs to the model. Good work Tau! You fixed the Shadowsword!

Ranged Support Cadre: All Markerlights from the Pathfinders in the Formation count as two tokens when used by the Broadsides in the Formation. Pathfinders gain Infiltrate, which doesn't work because it's a Battle Formation and they need to be deployed in coherency with other units in the Formation. It's like whoever wrote the Tau Formations didn't understand how Apocalypse even works. Anyway, it's a good Formation if you aren't already using your Pathfinders in Shadowsun's Formation.

Global Data-Net: Steal the Initiative on a 2+. ...Are you for real? If you don't use the Asset at the start of the game (why would you not?), you can use it at any point instead to double the amount of Markerlight tokens on a unit. Which is also fairly powerful.

Some good Formations. However, since you're Tau and not Space Marines or Imperial Guard, you aren't featured in every War Zone so it's not like you're spoiled for choice. Shadowsun is supposed to be a brilliant commander, except her brilliant strategy is common sense (shoot the Thunderhawks so Raven Guard can't rapidly deploy), and then later in the campaign, she falls for her own trap that she used on Khan earlier like an idiot (and it is actually pointed out in the text how dumb this is). Her one defining move of the entire campaign is popping her invisibility, running the entire battlefield (Invisible, so she's actually cheating, and not that good) and double-Fusioning the Scars' Librarian point-blank, to get rid of all the mist and crap that he's putting out. Unfortunately, that leaves her facing down Khan, Shrike and Corvin (the RG Chapter Master with the most original name ever) and nearly gets herself killed, except doesn't because of Deus Ex Machina.

All-in-all, the story itself is bad.
The pictures are nice (especially the one with Khan about to decapitate Shadowsun).
The only reason to get this book, really, is for the Formations, and none of them particularly stand out as being something that you need to get. However, the Tau-only Asset may potentially win you the game before the first turn even starts. Some people might say that the card is unfair in Apocalypse. Some other people might say that being unfair is what Apocalypse is all about.

[Renegade Paladin]

Any thoughts on the new Stormtrooper models and transport?

I think that the "jeep with 4 tracks instead of 4 wheels" is a pretty interesting look.

I just realized what's been bothering me about the vehicles beyond their general impracticality. They look exactly like the Ork aesthetic. Add some Orky glyphs on instead of Imperial symbols and you're done; it wouldn't take any mods to look exactly right.

[Drasius]

So, our local GW had a 2k Neckbeard Tournament, bring your cheeseiest cheese that has ever cheesed in north cheesingtown with the following restrictions;

No Lords of War
No Inquisition
No Forgeworld units with Experimental Rules

May run double Force org if desired, may use IA books and units.

I didn't take much notice since I still haven't got my 1500 Thousand Sons / Tzeentch Daemons army finished yet, I really wanted to finish painting my Heldrake conversion, and my 1500 Sisters army still hasn't arrived. Then they had a few more people join and were 1 short to be able to run it properly. Sure, why not, I'll play, let me see what cheese I can muster ... In 3 days. Long story short, I would have done screamerstar, but I don't have Fateweaver and the store didn't have a lord of change (or any of the greater deamons), so what other 2000 point cheese list can you build from scratch in 3 days?

Spoiler

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Spoiler: List

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Imperial Knights

375 - Knight Paladin
375 - Knight Paladin
375 - Knight Paladin
370 - Knight Errant

Stormwing Formation Dataslate
206 - Storm Raven, Twin Linked Multimelta, Searchlight, Extra Armour
145 - Storm Talon, Typhoon Missile Launcher
145 - Storm Talon, Typhoon Missile Launcher

1991

So, some furious cutting, glueing, cursing and a lot of blue-tac later, away we go! Only, turns out most guys simply took 2000 points of whatever they normally play, so other than the guy who plays Grey Knights / Necrons, there wasn't much cheese on display. Oops.

Spoiler: Game 1

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Purge the Alien
Dawn of War Deployment

Warlord gets re-roll 1's on the charge

Rough Marine Army List

Chapter Master with all the toys, Artificier, Burning Blade, Shield Eternal, Jump Pack (no, I don't know why he's not on a bike)
3x 10man Tac Marines
1x 10man Sniper Scouts w/ Missile
1x 5man Missile Devs w/ Flak
1x 4man Grav Cents w/ Missiles
1x Land Raider Redeemer
1x Storm Raven
1x Storm Talon
Aegis w/ Quad


This shot is actually from his first turn. He's moved his Redeemer out from behind cover, but that's about all.

He won Initiative and I couldn't sieze. My knight in the middle is out in no mans land since he had his cents on the table when I deployed, but then declared they were in the raider :( The dice on the knight bases is shield facing and strength for the red dice and hull points for the blue dice (that theme will continue though the colours change depending on what dice are at hand each game). Warlord is marked out by a special blue dice blue-tacked to his base and is in the far left in the above pic. 1 squad of marines with melta and multi melta are walking on.

Turn 1

He moves up the 'raider Cents disembark, everything else stays put. Cents put a wound on the knight out in the open (it ignores immobilised), missile scouts put a wound on the knight on the far right, AV 13 w/ 4++ saves everything else.

Knight in the middle of nowhere moves up 12", melta knight moves up 12" out of cover, warlord shuffles out of cover to get an angle on the marines clumped up in cover behind the aegis. The melta knight toasts the cents, killing 2. All 3 battle cannon knights target the tacticals behind the aegis. There are no survivors. 1 shot scatters onto the land raider as well, and manages a glance, taking it to 3 hull points.The knight in the middle of nowhere shoots his heavy stubber at the cents, doing nothing, but they are within 10" and are slow and purposeful, so no overwatch fo them, so he charges. And rolls boxcars. There are no survivors. He consolidates towards the 'raider.

This game is effectively over, only the unbelieveably rediculous outcome at the end saves this from being a complete farce.

Turn 2

He rolls for reserves and gets his tacs but no fliers. They walk on into the killing fields that his aegis has become. He fires everything at my knight about to end his raider and fails to take even a single hull point. AV13 and 4++ is pretty boss.

I roll for reserves and get nothing (the formation requires the 'Talons to come on with the 'Raven). I battle cannon his scouts, 1 lives so he gets a heavy stubber salvo and I get another Kill point.The chapter master, quad gun and dev squad eat battle cannons and melta basts, the chapter master escapes unharmed but everything else is erased.

Turn 3

His flyers both come on and race for my warlord, chapter master jumps mostly out of LOS. He fires everything both flyers have into my warlord, but AV13 w/ 3++ does exactly what you'd expect and he doesn't take a single wound.



My flyers come on and target his CM, achieving nothing. I battle cannon his CM with the 1 guy who can see him, causing a wound.

Turn 4

He hovers his flyers and unloads on my warlord again, result is the same, not a scratch. That's 2 short range meltas, 4 missiles, 4 kraks, and 15 assault cannon hits for a net result of 0 damage over 2 turns. His SM moves out of LOS again.

My flyers also go into Hover to shoot the chapter master. The guys who started on the right have moved into his deployment zone to both claim linebreaker and get better LOS on his CM. His flyers are in hover. The TO rules I can shoot them with blast weapons since they are now fast skimmers. My warlord battle cannons the talon out of the sky, and heavy stubbers the Raven. My flyers unload everything at the CM and cause only a single wound (I had no LOS with 1 'Talon). My warlord does what every gigantic mech with a chainblade for an arm does and charges the raven and rolls 3 1's and a six, but I re-roll the 1's due to warlord trait, chopping the 'Raven into tiny bits.

Turn 5

The CM thinks that was a pretty rad move, so he charges one of my 'Talons and kills it.

I charge the CM with 2 Knights and he has a very bad day.



Tabled the opponent. Major Victory to me.

3 flyers were killed, all by ground units, 2 of those by melee, 1 by a battlecannon. I can guarantee, that's not something that will happen again in a long time.

Spoiler: Game 2

Show

Relic
Vanguard

Warlord and any unit within 12" add 1 to run and charge moves.

Rough Grey Knight and Necron List

Castellan Crowe (?)
Vindicare Assassin
Purifiers (?) in Twin Linked Las Razorback
Purifiers (?)
Purifiers (?)
Storm Raven
Dreadknight w/ heavy incinerator

Lord w/ Mindshackle Scarabs
Warriors w/Nightscythe
Warriors w/Nightscythe
Doomscythe

Aegis w/ Quad

I win Initiative and grab the side with big cover and good firing lanes. My guys go into cover, warlord on opposite side of the table to try and limit his deployment options.

He sets up his aegis in view of my warlord and a vindicare in the 2nd levels of a ruins 18 inches away from my warlord, Crowe goes into the 'Raven, 2x Purifiers inside the aegis, razorback out of LOS, dreadknight 50 inches away from everything (he rolled night fighting as his warlord)

He fails to sieze.

Turn 1

I trudge toward the relic, Meltaing his Razorback and immobilising it. The other 2 knights vaporise 1 purifier squad, the warlord, in a fit of madness, kills the other down to a single man, forgetting all about the Vindicare (he was hidden very well).


(the lord of skulls is just terrain, as awesome as it would have been to have that as the relic. My warlords battle cannon had just fallen off after the table got bumped since the magnets are fairly weak)

The single remaining knight runs over to the quad gun, nothing else moves. The Lasback fired ineffectively at a knight and the vindy shield breakers my warlord (apparently you don't get to take your invo against it either - lame).

Turn 2

I roll a 1 for reserves and am grateful (at the time, but thinking about it, I might have been able to table him and win right there). My warlord moves away from his vindicare, making sure I get as much terrain between me and his turbo penatrator round as possible incase he survies next turn. 1 Knight gets LOS on the Dreadknight, 1 moves towards the relic (but I didn't realise you had to be in base contact so he stopped an inch away, not a mistake I will make again). The melta knight moves out of LOS of the lasback and can see the assassin.

Warlord battle cannons the Vindicare, achieving nothing, so heavy stubbers him for good measure, taking a wound off him. Relic knight scatters his battle cannons away from everything both times, 1 wound on the dreadknight from the other battlecannon knight and the melta knight hits the vindicare assassin, but fails to do anything, so he fires his heavy stubber out of spite and takes his last wound! Heavy stubbers FTW!

He gets a night scythe (with lord) and his raven (with Crowe) and they race towards my warlord. His dreadknight shuffled around a bit to get out of LOS.

Turn 3

My flyers come on and one of the Talons gets dropped by interceptor fire despite jinking. The relic gets picked up by a knight, the warlord tries to get into cover. The Raven foolishly takes a wound off the dreadknight and leaves him on 2 HP, the talon achieves nothing aginst a Scythe and the knights take out the remaining purifier and quad gun and another wound off the dreadknight.

He doesn't get either of his flyers in. Takes 2 hull points off my warlord and drops my other Talon, again, despite jinking.


(He dropped his stormraven and it snapped a couple of bits off, so it's being represented by just the flying base near the lord of skulls here in the picture.)

Turn 4

I fly the Raven off the Board, Warlord moves towards cover and out of the flyers arc, but it won't protect him from what's coming. Relic Knight moves towards cover so he can have a choice of killing my warlord or shooting the guy with the relic (and a 4++). I notice the razorback and the purifier squad well hidden behind ruins, but I have LOS on 1 guy, and that's all I need. All die and I pen the Razorback for a second immobilised and it's wrecked.

He gets his remaining 2 flyers on and targets my warlord with great glee. His dreadknight shunts and tries for a sneaky wound on rear.side armour with the incinerator, but fails. My warlord can't shrug off a death ray and dies, doesn't scatter it's deathsplosion and does nothing. The raven targets the knight that just killed the purifiers and razorback but AV13 and 4++ means that your short range melta is but a summer breeze. The assault cannons take 2 glances though, proving that quantity has a quality all of it's own.

Turn 5

I bring the raven back on and target his raven with crowe in it. Relic knight moves into cover, blocking LOS from all fliers bar the raven. My 'Raven pop his with the melta, despite the ceramite plating, forcibly ejecting Crowe who makes his save but scatters 10 inches. Right next to my knight who was going after the dreadknight. He stubbers Crowe and battle cannons the dread, killing it, but allowing him to charge Crowe. Crowe goes down, but not before taking a hull point and another 2 (since his silly taking you with me doesn't work the same on a superheavy).

He lines up a run at the only knight out in the open but can't do more than take 3 wounds off (Stupid tesla).

Game ends due to being out of time.

I have relic, first blood, slay the warlord, control more table tiles and line breaker, he has slay the warlord. Major Victory to me.

I played extremely poorly in this game, making some HUGE errors against a list that should have been a fairly solid counter (though it needed more flyers to be real cheese) and still came away with a Major victory and every objective.

Spoiler: Game 3

Show

Big Guns, 5 objectives, mysterious objectives used.
Hammer and Anvil

Warlord and any unit within 12" add 1 to run and charge moves.

Rough Imperial Guard / Dark Angels List

Lord Commisar
4? Guard squads, autocannon heavy weapons
1x Storm trooper squad in Vendetta
2x Leman Russ w/ plasma cannons in a squadron
1x Manticore (?) The 4x rocket tank thingy
1x Vendetta, 3x twin linked lascannons

ML2 Librarian
Tac Squad Missile/Plasma
Tac Squad Missile/Plasma
Nephalim (?)

Aegis w/ Quad

When I write out the list, it seems he's short a lot of points, I'm obviously forgetting something.

I win deployment and deploy fairly far up while still being in cover, my objectives go out in the open in midfield with 1 a bit more on his side. He deploys as far back as possible in a gunline with heaps of guard in ruins and the leman russes in the middle with the manticore on the left.

Night fighting first turn, he doesn't sieze.

Turn 1

I move up and target the tanks, achieving nothing but a single glance on the leman russ.

He stays put and fires everything bar the manticore at my melta knight, causing 2 hull points. Manticore take a hull point off a battlecannon knight.

Turn 2.

I roll a 1 for reserves again. Knights all move up, 3 mysterious objectives are revealed, nothing that will impact the game. Melta knight pens a russ, immobilised, heavy stubbers some guard. Battle cannon knight and warlord battle cannon the russes, most scatter harmlessly, 1 causes a glance. They heavy stubber some more guard. Other knight battle cannons the Manticore, glance. Melta knight charges the guard squad, needing a 9, rolling an 8, but being within 12" of the warlord, gets +1 to the result and just makes it in. Guardsman takes the hammer of wrath like a boss, but then gets cut down with the chainblade. Commisar misses with his melta bombs and I stomp and crush his commisar into the dirt along with half a dozen of his mates. They break and run, but I roll a 1 for my initiative, so they get away.

He gets both the Vendetta and the nephalim in, the vendetta goes for the warlord, the nephalim as well, trying for side armour, but they roll terribly, and he only gets 1 hit with the las cannons and nothing for the nephalim. I 3++ the lascannon. The manticore gets 3 blasts, all scatter just enough to hit my rear armour with no shield. 3 pens, no explodes, knight is down to 2 hull points. He shrugs off the remaining autocannon fire with AV13 and his 4++. Russes go after the warlord, but can only put a single glance on him. His guard continues to run since I'm within 3".

Turn 3

My flyers come in and race straight for his fliers. The knights move up again, ready to charge in. The 'Raven drops the Vendetta, which then crashes into the back of my warlord, no damage. His storm troopers have 2 survivors from the crash, who also wind up about 2 " from my warlord. The talons blow the nephalim away. The melta knight tries to blast the marines on the aegis, but scatters off the board, warlord and 1 of the other knights pwn the leman russes and stubber the guardsmen and the remaining knight battle cannons the manticore, exploding it 5" and taking out 10 guardsmen in the explosion. He heavy stubbers the guardsmen for good measure, then charges in, with the guard making their HoW save again, killing 1 with the chainblade and a few with his single stomp. The warlord rolls a 3 and fails his 6" charge, but the melta knight charges the marines on the quad gun, killing 2 and missing his stomp.



He sees he's going to get pwned by the strafing run flyers next turn and charges the knights with everything. Epic. He can't actually do anything however, so the next few turns devolve into my knights mercilessly slaughtering marines and guard in close combat with impunity.

Turn 4

My warlord battle cannons the 2 surviving stormtroopers into oblivion, and moves up to charge the remaining guard blob next turn. The remaining battle cannon guy moves back to cover an objective for the hell of it. My fliers move over for a view of the slaughter as they don't have anything to shoot. The 2 knights slaughter guard and marines as best they can, but despite getting 30 hits on his 3 stomps, one of the knights managed to kill only a single guardsman. The other 9 marines made all 29 other saves.

More shopping and stomping, much dying by the guard and marines. This time I stomp the libby in the face and get a 6, so him and 7 of his besties get removed from play, no 4++ for you.

Turn 5

The flyers go into hover cause I don't want to have to move them. More stomping and chopping. The warlord charges, the guard make their HoW save again.

More stomping and chopping. Warlord and melta knight wipe out the remaining marines, consolidate towards the remaining combat.

Roll to see if we get turn 6. Yep.

Turn 6. Warlord and friend charge, both make it, at this point it's 3 knights vs 7 marines and a guardsman. All over.


That's actually an action shot of the stormtalon falling over, the marines were just wiped out.

Tabled, Major Victory to me. The guard only broke once the entire game, even making a leadership test on a 3 at one point! Brave bastards. Even with stomp, knights can't plough through anything with a 4+ armoursave easily.

Overall thoughts

I played exceptionally poorly in the 2nd game and not overly well in the 3rd with some dubious target priority calls, but still came away with full points from every game. Against pure necron flyer spam, I'd be totally boned. Unless you build your list for it, you can't reasonably deal with 4 knights, hell, most lists are going to have a rough time with only 1 or 2, not to mention the other X amount of points on the board at the time. Still, anti flyer is a big weakness. I think the list would have been improved by dropping a knight and the dataslate and getting proper Marine allies.

On top of all of that, I didn't actually have any fun, and while the Guard player said he had fun, the Grey Knights/Necron player said the challenge was interesting but he had resigned himself to losing before we'd played and his personal goal was to destroy my warlord. The marine player had no fun at all, and I don't blame him. The knights will now be packed away, never to be used again unless someone asks to play against them and I'll go back to my fluff lists. Having said that, at LEAST 17 knights have been sold to the regulars at our GW. It might be that this is our new meta and I'll finally be able to play battletech using 40k rules. Who knows?

The tourney is run with 2 groups over 2 days and the winner of each plays off for overall, with 3rd going to highest battle point of the remaining crowd, and while I came 1st in our group, and 1st overall on pointsr, the list is filth and I'm away for a month before the store opens again, I have forfeited and the grey knights/necrons player will take my spot to play the winner. Might have been a different story if everyone had taken a cheese list like they were meant to, but as is? Knights have no place in regular 40k IMHO, and unless you let your opponent know beforehand, you're a douche if you take them.

[Cheesegear]

Space Marine Legion Crusade Army

You need Book I for the main army. It's fairly generic. But, you do need it.

Special Rules:

Spoiler

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Legiones Astartes: Astartes models can always regroup. Unfortunately, this is not ATSKNF, which means that Astartes models can be Swept, and that they can be affected by Fear. Some people might scoff at how much better 40K Marines are, but, in actual fact, this probably more likely represents the fact that Astartes can Sweep other Astartes, and that the models that actually do cause Fear are Primarchs.

Warlord Traits:
1. Fear. This is good. Because as noted, Astartes do have to make rolls against Fear.
2. Redeploy a unit. Since you’ve rolled Warlord Trait before Deployment, you can deliberately mis-deploy a critical unit to sucker your opponent into doing something dumb. But, you will need to know what you’re doing.
3. Pick D3 units in your army. These units’ Blast and Template weapons gain Shred. This is useful because most Template and Blast aren’t going to affect Power Armour saves in the slightest. However, this Trait requires that you’ve taken those weapons and that you’ve totally randomly rolled this Trait.
4. Warlord gains Fearless and is a Banner.
5. Adamantium Will and one unit in your army gains Deep Strike. Not bad.
6. Re-rolls To Wound. As noted, you’ll be fighting Power Armour a lot. This helps.

Rites of War
Affectionately known as 'Legion Tactics'. Book I has fairly generic ones which will be listed here. All the Legion-specific Rites start in Book II. You need a Master of the Legion to choose any Rites of War, but, for simplicity's sake, we'll just call them Praetors.

Orbital Assault: All units must be mounted in Drop Pods or have the Deep Strike rule. Terminators gain Deep Strike. No Fortifications. This FOC is the only reason to give your Praetor Terminator Armour, and, even then, you could just leave him as-is and put him in a unit with a Drop Pod. No Fortifications does hurt, but, it’s not like you care since you start the game with nothing on the board.

Armoured Spearhead: All Infantry units must start the game inside a vehicle. Units that can take Rhinos as Dedicated Transports, may instead take Land Raiders. No Fortifications. This FOC will smash your wallet if you want to do Heresy-done-right. Basically, if you want to field Land Raiders, this is how you field even more of them. However, it’s really hard to find a reason why you’d need any more than three ‘Raiders in your list, but, if you can, then do it.

Angel’s Wrath: Jump Infantry, Skimmers and Jetbikes only. All Infantry units must start the game inside a Flier or Skimmer. Units that may take Rhinos as Dedicated Transports may take Storm Eagles instead. No Tanks. No Fortifications. This FOC hurts. You gain Fliers as Dedicated Transports, but, you can’t have any Tanks? At all? Brutal. Even in the Armoured Spearhead you can still take Skimmers/Fliers if you want them. All your Jump Infantry also have Hit & Run, if that matters to you.

Pride of the Legion: Veterans and Terminators are Troops. Yes please. No Allies allowed. That’s fine. Since in the Legion lists the only Allies you have are more Legion lists (which does allow extra FO Slots though). Basically, you get good units in your Troops slots for little - if any, depending on your style - downside. Also, it’s the easiest on your wallet since you don’t have to buy a bunch of Drop Pods, Land Raiders or Storm Eagles just to play the army that you want to play. Or, you can just not take a Praetor and play ‘a bit of everything’ like you would actually want to.

HQ

Spoiler

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Praetor: Basically, this guy is your ‘fluff guy’. You can only have one per thousand points, and you can roll twice on the Warlord Traits table. That’s...Cool. Also, depending on what you, personally, want to do, he can change up your army selections with Master of the Legion. Charnabal Sabres are cheap, but Paragon Blades are awesome and a unique weapon to Praetors. So, get one. Ignore all other weapons, they just aren’t that good. Terminator Armour just isn’t worth it, either. Pick up your Invulnerable of choice and roll out. Just remember that Rites of War are optional, you don’t need to take them unless you really feel like gimping yourself. However, Book II is really when you start getting the good ones that are Legion specific and actually designed for your Legion instead of totally generic ones. So...Buy that too!

Command Squad: If you’ve picked up a Praetor, you have access to a Command Squad if you want it. The squad maxes out at 5 models, which is a pain, and their options aren’t even that good. Basically, kit them all with Charnabal Sabres and go for it. However, since every model in the squad is a Character, you can kit them all out with dual-Plasma Pistols and remember the good old days of when people used to do that with Wolf Guard.

Centurion
‘The Other Guy’ in a Legion list. You can run him vanilla if you feel like completely missing the point. But, he has the Consul rule for a reason. So it’s best that you use it! The only reason not to use the Consul rule is if you need to cheap-out. Typically for groups who are just beginning the Heresy and can’t afford to shell out for 1000+ point games off the bat.

Chaplain: Pay 20 Points for the Zealot rule. No thank you. Note, that Chaplains in a Legion list are not locked to a Power Maul.
Master of Signal: Once per game, drop a S8, AP3 Barrage plate on some guy’s head. Remember, Barrage is more accurate than Sniper.
Legion Champion: Nope. A Chaplain provides a better buff and comes stock with a Power Weapon.
Vigilator: Fancy word for ‘Scout Captain’. Usable. But not great.
Librarian: An ML3 Librarian will cost you 135 Points. With Divination. Why would you not? If you’re stuck for models, Sevrin Loth comes in Mk.IV Artificer Armour, and his Axe is easily replaced with a GK Warding Stave.
Forge Lord: A Techmarine that takes an HQ slot. No thank you.
Primus Medicae: An Apothecary that takes an HQ slot. You’re paying a lot of points just to give one unit in your army FNP. Pass.
Siege Breaker: Medusas get Phosphex for free. Furthermore, Heavy weapons in this guy’s unit gain the Tank Hunters rule. Fluffy and good. However ‘Not a Librarian’ syndrome is in full effect.
Moritat: Gunslinger with Rad Grenades. Also Scout. May not be chosen as your first HQ choice (and thus can not be taken in an Allied Detachment). He’s neat, but, can only join Destroyer squads. He’s fluffy, but hardly good.

Elites

Spoiler

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Veteran Tactical Squad: For five points over the Troop version, you get an extra attack, and well as a special or Heavy weapon for every five models in the squad. Furthermore, at the start of the game (so, you may or may not have seen your opponent’s list), you can choose to give them a USR of your choice - no, you don’t have to put it on your list which means you can change it every game. Every model in the unit gains Sniper. That’s fairly hardcore. Did you bring a Divination Librarian? However, Sniper weapons count as S3 vs. Vehicles, so that makes most Heavy weapons pretty sad. Or, if you have got the Rite that makes your Veterans, Troops, don’t be afraid to make all of your now-Scoring units Fearless.

Destroyer Squad: I don’t understand why these guys exist. Avoid.

Terminator Squad: ...They’re Terminators. However, due to Astartes Legions being awesome, Terminators are nearly always Scoring, despite being Elites. However, the problem lies in the fact that you are playing the Heresy, and your opponents know this, and thus nearly every unit that can possibly, will take Plasma, because during the Heresy, any weapon that isn’t AP3 or better may as well not be a thing.

Techmarine Covenant: Did you catch the part where Terminators are Scoring?

Apothecarion Detachment: Why would you ever take the HQ Apothecary when you can take 1-3 as an Elites choice for about the same points cost. Pretty good that you can give a bunch of your units FNP, which is always nice. Unfortunately, no. Terminators are not on the list of units that Apothecaries are allowed to join.

Dreadnought Talon: You’re playing against Astartes. Taking anything other than the Plasma or Flamestorm Cannon is kind of pointless.

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon: You can always pick up a pair of Twin-Linked Lascannons. Or a pair of Plasma Cannons. Or whatever.

Rapier Weapons Battery: Laser Destroyers or Thud Guns. Pick your favourite. Whatever you decide on going just don’t keep the default Heavy Bolters. They just wont do anything.

Mortis Dreadnought (II): Makes regular Dreadnoughts look like a joke.

Contemptor-Mortis (II): Ditto.

Dreadnought Drop Pod (II): It has Shrouded on the turn it lands. It’s an Assault Vehicle. It transports Dreadnoughts.

Tarantula Sentry Gun Battery (II): For not that many points, you could have Rapier Weapons Batteries. They’re better. Except for the one Tarantula variant that can grap Skyfire, Interceptor Missiles.

Troops

Spoiler

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Tactical Squad: Boltguns. Absolutely do not under any circumstances trade their Boltguns for Chainswords because you’re missing the point (take Assault Marines for that). Forge World clearly reaslises that Boltguns aren’t going to do anything in a meta that is 99% Marines (and that one guy who plays Mechanicum). As such, in any Shooting phase, if the Tactical Squad didn’t move, they can fire their Boltguns twice. In Rapid Fire range, you’re shooting four times per model (max size 20). That’s a lot of Boltguns. If you aren’t paying 5 extra points for Veterans, this is exactly where you’re putting your ML3 Librarian. Unleash the Fury of the Legions.

Assault Squad: For every five models in the squad you can pick up a Power Weapon. They’re like Blood Claws. Except good.

Breacher Siege Squad: For every five models in the squad, you can pick up a special weapon. You’re also paying a whole bunch to replace the Tactical Squad’s Fury of the Legion for Hardened Armour, which gives you re-rolls to your armour saves vs. Blast and Template weapons. Since only silly people are taking Template and Blast weapons during the Heresy, this squad is kind of a waste of time. inb4: Flamestorm and Plasma Cannons are ignoring your Armour Saves anyway. However, the Breacher Squad can take a Land Raider as a Dedicated Transport without the use of a superfluous Praetor.

Tactical Support Squad: Like Devastators, but with special weapons, and Scoring. All models in the squad must take the same special weapon. In case you haven’t been reading up until now, that weapon is Plasma Guns. If you’re using the Rite that gives you access to Drop Pods, then, you can use that and Meltaguns. The only drawback on this squad is that as Support Squads, they can not be used as your mandatory Troops selections. That’s fine. Two ten-man Bolter squads, and then max out on Support Squads, yes. You can do that.

Reconnaissance Squad: A Marine Squad with Scout, Outflank and Acute Senses. If you really feel like it you can replace their Boltguns with Sniper Rifles (why haven’t you got Veterans as Troops with the Sniper rule with Rapid Fire Boltguns?). If you want, you can drop your Power Armour to Scout Armour and then you have Infiltrate. It’s pretty cool if you can get a Dedicated Land Raider. Recon Squads also are support units and can’t be used as mandatory squads. They can take Storm Eagles as Dedicated Transports, if you’re into that.

Rhino: It’s a Rhino. It does Rhino-y things.

Drop Pod: It’s a Drop Pod. It does Drop Pod-y things. Unfortunately, without a Praetor with Orbital Assault, the number of units that can take a Drop Pod is zero. And then when you do have Orbital Assault, you need ALL the Drop Pods. Legion Lists are all-or-none. Turns out.

Fast Attack

Spoiler

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Seeker Squad: Sternguard. Except as Fast Attack. No proper access to Drop Pods. And it’s Heresy-era so the one thing that makes Sternguard really good against Marines - Vengeance Rounds - Seekers don’t have. Why are they in Fast Attack? I don’t know. They are. Deal with it.

Outrider Squad: Bikes with Scout. Bikes are the second-best unit-type in the game and the Heresy doesn’t change that, oh, and their special weapons are Twin-Linked. Because 30K.

Attack Bike Squadron: Fast Multi-Meltas. That’s about it.

Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron: And the best unit-type in the game is Jetbike. And then you can give some of them Plasma Cannons because why not?

Land Speeder Squadron: Land Speeders. Ew.

Storm Eagle Assault Gunship: It’s an AV12 Flier with a messton of guns that also transports up to 20 models. It’s also cheaper than a Land Raider. For some reason. That I don’t know.

Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter (II): You’re competing with Storm Eagles, Bikes and Jetbikes. You need to bring more than a Flying Lascannon. Dark Angels learned this the hard way.

Javelin Attack Squadron (II): They Outflank. But they’re still Land Speeders.

Heavy Support

Spoiler

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Heavy Support Squad: Guilliman hasn’t written his Codex yet, so they’re not called Devastators at this time. But, that’s what they are. Except you can have up to ten Heavy weapons! Because 30K. They all have to be the same though, so, if you want a few Heavy weapons, go with Plasma Cannons. If you want to cheese out, go with Missile Launchers that are cheaper. Hey, Missile Launchers still shoot S8, AP3 ammo, and when you’ve got more than six of them…

Predator Strike Armour Squadron: It’s 30K Space Marines. Drop Podding suicide Melta squads aren’t really a thing. Predators are actually kind of cool, especially since they can upgrade to the invaluable Plasma Cannon or Flamestorm Cannon. Especially not-terrible because they can come in Squadrons.

Land Raider Phobos, Proteus, Achilles: Use whatever feels right.

0-1 Artillery Tank Squadron: Basilisk, Medusa or Whirlwinds. Just kidding. There are only Medusas. Medusas are love. Medusas are life.

Vindicator: Does its Vindicator thing. It’s cheaper than a single Medusa. But, if you can upgrade, then do it.

Spartan Assault Tank: Yeah.

Caestus Assault Ram: In 40K, it drops 30 Points and is better. But, we’re in 30K where a Caestus has the potential to ruin games all on its own.

Deathstorm Drop Pod (II): Eh.

Whirlwind Scorpius (II): Get one. Get one now.

Sicaran Battle Tank (II): ...Or one of these.

Lords of War

Spoiler

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In the Heresy-era, you have to remember that LoWs can only be taken once every 2000 Points. So...While a lot of them might be good (very good), it’s unlikely that you’re going to use them much. Unfortunately, Primarchs also fit into this category. So, you can take a Primarch, or a really big tank. Come on. You're taking a Primarch.

Fellblade Super-Heavy Tank: Imperial Guard? In my Legion!? Well, that explains why its more expensive in 40K. Because Marines stop crewing their tanks with wussies.

Typhon Heavy Siege Tank: Brilliant.

Thunderhawk Gunship: Whoa. Hold up. In 40K, the Thunderhawk is more than two hundred points less. What!? However, the 30K version does have 12HPs instead of nine.

Thunderhawk Transporter: No.

Cereberus Heavy Tank Destroyer: It has its uses. But, Typhon Siege Tanks are simply better with less RNG.

Malcador Assault Tank: For 300 Points in a LoW slot, you need more than a Battle Cannon. You just do.

Glaive Super-heavy Special Weapons Tank (II): Its one of the better Tanks around, however, it’s also one of the most expensive. Still, it’s a 48” Beam that doesn’t do nice things to the things it hits.

[Drasius]

Armoured Vanguard Squadron: Rhinos and Razorbacks. All Tanks in the Formation gain Assault Vehicle and Tank Hunters. It's more useful to spam Razorbacks since you can actually make use out of Tank Hunters, but, if Rhinos are Assault Vehicles, spamming them means more bodies in the Tanks to maximise their Assaults.
Whatever. You can definitely field one or the other in any Space Marine army and it will work. What Space Marine player doesn't have Rhinos/Razorbacks lying around?

Step 1: Take Assault Marines
Step 2: Trade Jump Packs for Discount Assault Tankhunting Razorback
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit!

Double bonus points if you use Ravenguard tactics as they now have Scout and Stealth and are a fluffy choice.

[Squark]

So, toying with a couple of additions to my armies

3x Thunderwolves -235 points
-Storm shield+Powerfist, Storm shield

Rune Priest -155
-Runic Armor, Space Marine Bike
-Jaws of the World Wolf, Living Lightning

Or..

6x necron Wraiths -240
-3 whip coils

or another Annihilation Barge and Ghost ark to give me a solid AV 13 wall

thoughts?

[Requizen]

I kinda think of the opposite; it looks like an oversized toy truck that mysteriously has tracks instead of wheels.

The new Stor--er, "Tempestus Scions" have sweet helmets, but I'm a little less sure about the carapace armor chestplates. The trimmings just seem...a little too ornate for Guard, even if it's Scions. I feel like they'd fit better on Astartes Scouts or Sororitas.

I quite like the models. I was iffy about the Taurox at first, but you know, it's something different. It's nice to see another vehicle that's not just a Metal Bawks variant, and it's grown on me quite a bit. The Scions themselves are pretty cool. They manage to straddle that line between Guardsman and Space Marine and look good while doing it.

I'm confused as far as the forthcoming rules are concerned though. Is the Militarium Tempestus going to be a supplement for the incoming Astra Militarium, or is it a standalone army that merges with Imperial forces (like the Knights)? The book says Codex and they have their own section on GW's site, but the number of models in the section seems pretty low and feels like there'd be a lot of overlap with AM. Or do we just not know yet?

[DaedalusMkV]

It seems to be a bit of both, judging by the leaked rules pictures and rumours. The Taurox is a new transport for both IG/AM and Tempestus Scions, while the Prime variant is just for Scions. It looks like the Scions can be taken as their own quasi-army, with Commissars as HQ choices and the Scion platoons as Troops, possibly including Valkyries/Vendettas as fast attack, as an Allied detachment as normal or Scions can be taken as Elites choices in an IG/AM army. If the leaked rules are correct, it may not actually be possible to play them without a current IG/AM parent codex in your possession, since Tempestor Primes get to issue Orders like Junior Officers. Either way, I expect you'll see it mostly allied to other, more flexible, books, just like Legion of the Damned and Inquisition.

Either way, call me cautiously excited for the release. I do like the new models, though I actually preferred the armour of the old Stormtroopers the Scions definitely have awesome looking helmets, guns and accessories, and the posing for them is top-notch. The Taurox looks pretty okay, but I'm still a big fan of the Chimera chassis at the end of the day.

[Renegade Paladin]

I quite like the models. I was iffy about the Taurox at first, but you know, it's something different. It's nice to see another vehicle that's not just a Metal Bawks variant, and it's grown on me quite a bit. The Scions themselves are pretty cool. They manage to straddle that line between Guardsman and Space Marine and look good while doing it.

I'm confused as far as the forthcoming rules are concerned though. Is the Militarium Tempestus going to be a supplement for the incoming Astra Militarium, or is it a standalone army that merges with Imperial forces (like the Knights)? The book says Codex and they have their own section on GW's site, but the number of models in the section seems pretty low and feels like there'd be a lot of overlap with AM. Or do we just not know yet?

What incoming Astra Militarum? Militarum Tempestus is the only release I've seen. The only mention I can find of Astra Militarum on the site is in the Taurox description, which might mean that it's merely a fluff difference (or the elites/troops divide) and they're both in Codex: Militarum Tempestus.

At any rate, this is the laziest new army release I've ever seen. They introduced exactly one vehicle, one box of infantry, and filled in the rest with existing stuff from Imperial Guard.

I do note with extreme displeasure that they've stopped selling the Guard Stormtrooper or Kasrkin boxes.

[Tome]

What incoming Astra Militarum? Militarum Tempestus is the only release I've seen. The only mention I can find of Astra Militarum on the site is in the Taurox description, which might mean that it's merely a fluff difference (or the elites/troops divide) and they're both in Codex: Militarum Tempestus.

At any rate, this is the laziest new army release I've ever seen. They introduced exactly one vehicle, one box of infantry, and filled in the rest with existing stuff from Imperial Guard.

I do note with extreme displeasure that they've stopped selling the Guard Stormtrooper or Kasrkin boxes.

The covers for the codex have been leaked, as have the next WD. No idea why they released the add-on before the main codex.

And there have been lazier ones. Inquisition and Imperial Knights spring to mind, with zero and one new kit respectively.

[Cheesegear]

So, toying with a couple of additions to my armies

What for? As Allies to an army you already have? Or as additions to to Primaries that you already have?

Putting Thunderwolves and a Rune Priest in a Space Wolves army is never wrong. Ever.

Necrons though? Wraithstars aren't quite as powerful as they were in 5th, and have definitely taken a kick to the head with all the Shooting armies out there right now. I'd probably go with more AV13, since the meta can't really deal with that right now unless you're playing in a meta full of Marines. And if you're playing against Marines, they'll have Melta weapons all over the place which not only kill vehicles, but double-out Wraiths, too.

No idea why they released the add-on before the main codex.

Speculation from elsewhere says the Space Army book was delayed for some reason. But, that they had models ready to go, and selling models is more important than selling books. Even though we - the gamers - know for a fact that rules sell models, which was made abundantly clear in the 2012-13 year. In the 2013-14 year, Dataslates and Supplements have been making a killing. Who would have thought that it was possible to be sold out of Tyranid models after such an 'awful' Codex was released? Remember when the Tau book dropped there was suddenly a worldwide shortage of Kroot? Or the shortage of Wave Serpents? Nah. Their rules had nothing to do with it. It was that people love putting together a hundred finnicky Kroot models for fun.

[13_CBS]

Speaking of GW silliness:

/tg/, the dark corner of 4chan that discusses 40k, had 2 threads a few weeks ago where a guy claiming to be a GW store manager held a "ask me anything" sort of deal about GW. Of course, this is the internet and in particular 4chan, so whether the guy is telling the truth or he's just making crap up is uncertain, but a lot of what he says certainly seems plausible.

The threads are fairly SFW--no explicit images or text in the threads--but just in case, I'll give you simple instructions on how to get to the threads rather than linking them directly.

Go to http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html
On the far left of the screen, search for "Ask a GW" in the "Search by tags" field.
Consult the "Ask a (soon to be) Ex-GW staffer anything!" and "Ask a (soon to be) Ex-GW staffer anything Part 2" threads.

[Cheesegear]

/tg/, the dark corner of 4chan that discusses 40k, had 2 threads a few weeks ago where a guy claiming to be a GW store manager held a "ask me anything" sort of deal about GW.

Blackshirts are just as in the dark as the rest of us. Nothing is said of any note. 4chan fails again.

[Squark]

What for? As Allies to an army you already have? Or as additions to to Primaries that you already have?

Putting Thunderwolves and a Rune Priest in a Space Wolves army is never wrong. Ever.

Additions to existing primaries.

And sure, adding thunderwolves and rune priests is never a bad idea, but are they going to work together is more my question.

[13_CBS]

Blackshirts are just as in the dark as the rest of us. Nothing is said of any note. 4chan fails again.

Eh, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. Blackshirts can tell us what their training emphasizes, for example, and GW's hiring policies, emails to staff, rumors through the grapevine, etc.

[Cheesegear]

Eh, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.

I would be.

Blackshirts can tell us what their training emphasizes, for example, and GW's hiring policies, emails to staff, rumors through the grapevine, etc.

Going into your local GW at least semi-regularly so the Blackshirts know who you are, spending money and being a good person in the story, the Blackshirt will probably straight up tell you if you ask them (I know mine have). GW's hiring policy is "Can you sell models?" You don't even need to be interested in the game. Blackshirts have no incentive to learn anything about the game outside of the starter kits, if they can teach you to play and get to buy a starter kit and paints for RRP, then their job is done, whether or not you ever set foot into the store ever again. Everytime you walk in the door, you should be spending money, if you don't walk in the door, you weren't going to spend money in the first place, so what does it matter? E-mails to staff are "[X] hasn't sold this month. Sell more [X]. Stop being terrible at your job."

The rumours they get are the same as everybody else's. The only people who matter in GW are the game and model designers. Blackshirts are irrelevant as a source of information, and I say that knowing several Blackshirts and being on very good terms with them (I even go to one of their houses to play games every so often).