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  1. - Top - End - #961
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    That's interesting. Definitely workable. The other 'fix' that has been proposed to me to look over is that you take Formations instead of Allies. So, an Allied Detachment and a Formation take up the same 'slot', so to speak, so you can't have both.
    What we do around here, at least in friendly games since tournaments tend to focus more on RAW, is give everyone one FOC. Want to take Allies? Every Allied unit you take takes up the equivalent slot on your core FOC in addition to the usual Allied Detachment restrictions. Planning on using Taudar? You get one Farseer and one Commander, max. No 'free' Farseers. It removes the problem with Allies often being just a stupid meta-gamey way to abuse extra FOC slots (like Tau/Farsight being used solely as a means to fit 4-5 Riptides and Sky Rays into a list while still packing a few Crisis Suits) and means there's actually something vaguely resembling a downside to bringing along an Allied detachment. It generally works pretty well, at least in my opinion, without really cutting into the core purpose of allowing Allies in the first place.
    Avatar by the wonderful SubLimePie. Former avatar by Andraste.

  2. - Top - End - #962
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by 13_CBS View Post
    Oooh, 30k! I love 30k!

    Though, quick question: where are the Graviton guns coming from? I don't think I see them on the list...are they on the Rapier batteries?
    Woops, typo, meant to say Rapier Batteries. I'd just double checked the Rite of War to make sure I had it correct, and found out in the Rite of War for IH that squads can get access to Graviton Guns for the cost of Flamers; that's where I'd got that from, must have still had it in my brain.

    The only problem I find (with this list) is that thanks to the Heresy writers, I have nothing but contempt for Iron Hands; Graham McNeil's in Angel Exterminatus made me loath them, and it's been such a long time since I read the original trilogy, but however they were represented in there has annoyed me. Same with Salamanders; I used to love them until Nick Kyme got his grubby mitts on them =(. Yes, I could refluff it as a particular branch of X legion, but that defeats the point of playing 30K.

    My favourites so far are either the Sons of Horus or Night Lords, I think. The Emperor's Children ruleswise *suck* (not badly as the core list is exactly the same, its just that their intended style of play wasn't as well supported in either the core game, or the Legion specific rules which were not as powerful as say Night Lords, Salamanders or Iron Warriors and their special units are just disgustingly overpriced), even though I love the aesthetics.

    Salamanders; well, it was clear that Alan Bligh or whoever has a major *thing* for them; not only are their rules pretty nifty, but their unique units are downright outrageously broken. Firedrakes; 2+/3++, 2 wounds, scoring, FOC free (you're taking a Praetor for their Rite of War, no?). Now, sure such a unit isn't without its downsides; Vindicator mortality rates, etc, but they've still got a 66% chance of surviving it, and a points cost around 800pts when combined with Praetor an all, but with access to Chainfists, their typical weakness (Contemptors) is all but gone. Lets not get started on Vulkan. Comparatively cheap, the resilience of marble (T7, 7 wounds, 2+/3++, reroll failed IWND, and a S10, AP1 Instant Death Causing, Concussive Weapon that his at Initiative (only 5, because he's "slow"). Oh, and his ranged weapon, because he takes too long to get there? A line of effect Rending weapon with AP2. That's not enough though, throw on his own immunity to Plasma, Flamer and Volkite weapons (just because), while Melta can only wound on a 6. And that's not enough either; free +1 Leadership for all Sallies, and free Adamantium Will, because witchfire doesn't suck enough already.

    Yeah. It annoys me a bit to see the disparity between Emperor's Children and Salamanders.

  3. - Top - End - #963
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Lets not get started on Vulkan. Comparatively cheap, the resilience of marble (T7, 7 wounds, 2+/3++, reroll failed IWND, and a S10, AP1 Instant Death Causing, Concussive Weapon that his at Initiative (only 5, because he's "slow"). Oh, and his ranged weapon, because he takes too long to get there? A line of effect Rending weapon with AP2. That's not enough though, throw on his own immunity to Plasma, Flamer and Volkite weapons (just because), while Melta can only wound on a 6.
    Vulkan's rules makes me go a little, mostly since he seems to be usurping Mortarion's shtick as "toughest of all Primarchs". I guess in the long run Mortarion might edge out, but good grief...

    Vulkan's 3++ vs Mortarion's 4++

    Both have T7 and W7

    Resistance to Plasma in the Plasma Editiontm vs rerolling Toughness tests, ignoring most poison, etc.

    ...and Vulkan is a giant beatstick while Mortarion is comparatively just a tank.

    If Vulkan is also somehow cheaper than Mortarion, I'm going to be sad.

  4. - Top - End - #964
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Regarding the allies debate, aside from allies and formations using your FOC slots, allied IC should never benefit from USRs from joining a allied unit, nor should that unit gain any USRs from a allied IC. Lookout, sir! and bonus to Ld should still apply.

  5. - Top - End - #965
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Oh man. I think I've got it. Someone check my metaphorical math for me.

    Taudar and Eldau are the ultrameta. Everyone wants to bust them, but no one can figure out how. I...think I have two really good ideas.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Codex: ORKS
    The Battering Ram
    1. Take 6 Red Battlewagons with Deffrollas
    2. Fill three with Meganobs with Kombiskorchas (and 2 KFF Big Meks)
    3. Fill three with Shootaboyz
    4. Roll forward 13" in a formation that minimizes your opponent's ability to see anything but front armor. FA 14 with 4HP, baby.
    5. Snipe any Melta/Lance units with Grots on a Quad and Kannons.
    6. Chuckle as they spend all their Markerlights trying to strip your cover on models they can't deal damage to.
    7. Move 7" (Red Paint Job lets you ignore the 6" max move thing), jump out 6". OPEN FIRE. And I do mean fire. Kombiskorchas everywhere.

    You have covered 26"+8" templates gives you a 34" threat range, and you can still Assault anything that's still alive. You have 2+ armor on half your army. Can Taudar or Eldau take the heat?


    Spoiler
    Show
    Codex: SPACE MARINES
    I Love the Smell of Promethium in the Morning
    0. I recommend Salamanders, but technically any Vanilla set can do this.
    1. Take 9 Drop Pods. Come back and add in DWML's or Locator Beacons if you have leftover points at the end.
    2. Fill those Pods with Heavy Flamer Sternguard, Tacticals with Flamers and/or Meltas, and either Flamer-Ironclads (lol, no one expects the Master of the Forge!) or Thunderfire Cannons. Command Squads optional, but recommended as Bargain Sterns with FNP.
    3. Drop 5 Pods in a clever formation on Turn 1, trying to maximize your ability to land directly on priority targets. Sternguard land on Firewarriors, Flamer-Tacs land on Kroot (unless they Infiltrated to your side of the board, in which case, ignore them), anything with Meltas/Plasmas lands next to Suits.
    4. I've heard it's possible to have Stormtalons Escort deepstrikers. If this is true, bring them with the Pods like a smart person.
    5. If the Tau can't completely ruin everything you have right away (Hint: I'm pretty sure they can't kill 50 Space Marines on Interceptor alone.), you DECIMATE your targets in order of priority.
    6. Troops > Suits without Interceptor >>> Suits WITH Interceptor, because they can't shoot on the next turn anyways.
    7. Drop Pod unleash Large Blasts if they can, because why they hell not?

    Some 1600+ points of Space Marines break the line on Turn 1 with a **** load of firepower (some of it once again literal) and assassinate as much as possible. Is this game? Do the Space Marines ever get to attack, because the Tau have "so much Interceptor"? Do the Eldar have anything to turn the Alphastrike on its head once their beloved range and troll-tastic cover saves are stripped away by the Emperor's cleansing flames?


    Comments would be awesome. I'm too tired to minmax exact lists, but I know both of them are possible if you build carefully and prioritize.

    Please forgive any egregious typos, should they exist. I'll reread in the morning to fix anything, and strike this out when it's done.

  6. - Top - End - #966
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    So, I didn't think there would be much talk about Dataslates in the Playground, but, since there is...

    Be'lakor (CSM): In the Chaos Space Marines army list, Be'lakor is a force to be reckoned with. Sure, a Flying Daemon Prince with the Burning Brand is pretty cool, but, Be'lakor has Eternal Warrior, and Mastery Level 3 knowing all Powers from Telepathy (yes, I will be casting Puppet Master every turn of every game TYVM!) 4++ and Shrouded. What? You wanted something anything other than super-awesome for 350 Points? Oh, okay. Sure. Right.

    Be'lakor (CD): He's not Fateweaver. He doesn't give you a free re-roll every turn, he doesn't re-roll the Warp Storm table. He doesn't unlock Daemon Princes as Heavy Support choices, and he even costs more than Fateweaver. Just don't do it.

    Cypher*: For just under 200 Points, if you're not playing against Dark Angels (who still plays those guys, right?), if you can keep him alive, you gain extra Victory Points. He gives any unit he joins Infiltrate, Fleet and Hit & Run, which is cool, and he's a Gunslinger that can shoot twice with both weapons (his Plasma Pistol doesn't Gets Hot! either), or, he can shoot normally and Run - with Fleet - as well. He has BS10, too! And he's uses his Pistols in close combat, so his attacks have an AP value, and, one of his attacks every round even gets to be AP2! Oh, and he has Eternal Warrior. Because.
    *So, where's the downside? Well, he gives your Warlord -1 Leadership. In any army that uses a solo Psyker as their Warlord, Cypher is straight up bad. However, Fearless non-Psyker Warlords (Logan, Chaos Lords), can definitely find a use for a guy who gives out Infiltrate. Just remember to kill Psykers who use Telepathy ASAP.

    Tyrannic War Veterans: They're expensive Sternguard, except without the Ammo that makes Sternguard deadly threats (Dragonfire and Kraken Bolts), and without the ability to take multiple Ranged Weapons. So, why even take them? For Preferred Enemy (Tyranids)? Well, with Chapter Tactics (Ultramarines) - which means you're bringing Tigurius, right? - you get a hail of Twin-Linked anyway from a few sources, and, you're wounding on a 2+ with the Hellfire Rounds...Do you really need PF (Tyranids)? Oh, you get Zealot, too, if Tyranids are on the board...So, you're buying expensive Sternguard with one ammo-type that are kind of okay in Assault against Tyranids. Assault. Against Tyranids. Nice try. A fluffy unit that isn't even effective against the army that it's meant to be effective against.
    However, if you are playing Ultramarines, and your Heavy slots are full up with Thunderfire Cannons, TWVs are the cheapest tax you have in order to get Land Raiders in your list.

    Adeptus Astartes Storm Wing: You have three Fliers in a Formation, and they all come on, on the same turn - good or bad. Your big deal is that you can have two Stormtalons Escorting the same unit - the Stormraven. And, the Stormraven gains Strafing Run for its efforts. Not terrible, since all the units in the Formation are actually good units, but, unless you can make your Reserve rolls do what you want them to do (again, good or bad), you're probably better off getting some of your units on the board, instead of say, none. The other problem is that the Formation doesn't benefit from Iron Hands or Salamanders, so...Yeah.

    Saint Tylus Battle Force: You have to bring Cassius (yay! More buffs to TWVs in Assault!), and you have to bring at least unit of TMVs with him - and it doesn't even need to be full size! - in return for the 'tax', you can have up to six Stormtalons in your list, who can all deploy on the battlefield even though they are Fliers - and they can Infiltrate for some reason. No. The TMVs don't Infiltrate. The big, noisy Fliers do.

    Eldar Ghost Warriors: One of this Formation's rules only affects Friendly Units, which means anything other than Battle Brothers or Eldar is out, and then, another one of its rules only effects Eldar units - and the latter isn't even that good. Basically, Eldar units get Hatred, and when was the last time you wanted an Eldar unit in combat? Yeah, I thought so. However, if you have a Spiritseer as part of your army, the Wraithguard/blades will be Scoring, so that's cool - if you have a Spiritseer.

    Reclusiam Command Squad: Ergh. A Chaplain, an Assault-orientated Command Squad, and, to top it all off, it's Dedicated Transport is a Razorback, instead of say...A Land Raider. Awful. Just don't do it.

    Tau Firebase Support Cadre: This Formation includes a Riptide and six Broadsides. So, no bad units or taxes to start with. Then, just give them all Tank Hunters for fun, just in case you have problems using Heavy Rail Rifles to destroy vehicles. Then, if you're stuck in the 'Marine Meta' instead of the 'Eldar/Tau' one, well, all your units gain Preferred Enemy (Marines), just incase your Tau-bought units aren't already Twin-Linked Everything.
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  7. - Top - End - #967
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Hootman View Post
    Oh man. I think I've got it. Someone check my metaphorical math for me.

    Taudar and Eldau are the ultrameta. Everyone wants to bust them, but no one can figure out how. I...think I have two really good ideas.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Codex: ORKS
    The Battering Ram
    1. Take 6 Red Battlewagons with Deffrollas
    2. Fill three with Meganobs with Kombiskorchas (and 2 KFF Big Meks)
    3. Fill three with Shootaboyz
    4. Roll forward 13" in a formation that minimizes your opponent's ability to see anything but front armor. FA 14 with 4HP, baby.
    5. Snipe any Melta/Lance units with Grots on a Quad and Kannons.
    6. Chuckle as they spend all their Markerlights trying to strip your cover on models they can't deal damage to.
    7. Move 7" (Red Paint Job lets you ignore the 6" max move thing), jump out 6". OPEN FIRE. And I do mean fire. Kombiskorchas everywhere.

    You have covered 26"+8" templates gives you a 34" threat range, and you can still Assault anything that's still alive. You have 2+ armor on half your army. Can Taudar or Eldau take the heat?


    Spoiler
    Show
    Codex: SPACE MARINES
    I Love the Smell of Promethium in the Morning
    0. I recommend Salamanders, but technically any Vanilla set can do this.
    1. Take 9 Drop Pods. Come back and add in DWML's or Locator Beacons if you have leftover points at the end.
    2. Fill those Pods with Heavy Flamer Sternguard, Tacticals with Flamers and/or Meltas, and either Flamer-Ironclads (lol, no one expects the Master of the Forge!) or Thunderfire Cannons. Command Squads optional, but recommended as Bargain Sterns with FNP.
    3. Drop 5 Pods in a clever formation on Turn 1, trying to maximize your ability to land directly on priority targets. Sternguard land on Firewarriors, Flamer-Tacs land on Kroot (unless they Infiltrated to your side of the board, in which case, ignore them), anything with Meltas/Plasmas lands next to Suits.
    4. I've heard it's possible to have Stormtalons Escort deepstrikers. If this is true, bring them with the Pods like a smart person.
    5. If the Tau can't completely ruin everything you have right away (Hint: I'm pretty sure they can't kill 50 Space Marines on Interceptor alone.), you DECIMATE your targets in order of priority.
    6. Troops > Suits without Interceptor >>> Suits WITH Interceptor, because they can't shoot on the next turn anyways.
    7. Drop Pod unleash Large Blasts if they can, because why they hell not?

    Some 1600+ points of Space Marines break the line on Turn 1 with a **** load of firepower (some of it once again literal) and assassinate as much as possible. Is this game? Do the Space Marines ever get to attack, because the Tau have "so much Interceptor"? Do the Eldar have anything to turn the Alphastrike on its head once their beloved range and troll-tastic cover saves are stripped away by the Emperor's cleansing flames?


    Comments would be awesome. I'm too tired to minmax exact lists, but I know both of them are possible if you build carefully and prioritize.

    Please forgive any egregious typos, should they exist. I'll reread in the morning to fix anything, and strike this out when it's done.
    Big Mek: KFF
    Big Mek: KFF
    Meganobz x4, Kombi Skorchas
    Meganobz x4, Kombi Skorchas
    Meganobz x4, Kombi Skorchas
    20 Boyz
    20 Boyz
    20 Boyz
    6x Battlewagon - Deffrolla, RPJ, Grot riggers, 2 extra big shootas.

    1850.
    i watched your heart turn black.

  8. - Top - End - #968
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Hootman View Post
    Spoiler
    Show
    Codex: SPACE MARINES
    I Love the Smell of Promethium in the Morning
    0. I recommend Salamanders, but technically any Vanilla set can do this.
    1. Take 9 Drop Pods. Come back and add in DWML's or Locator Beacons if you have leftover points at the end.
    2. Fill those Pods with Heavy Flamer Sternguard, Tacticals with Flamers and/or Meltas, and either Flamer-Ironclads (lol, no one expects the Master of the Forge!) or Thunderfire Cannons. Command Squads optional, but recommended as Bargain Sterns with FNP.
    3. Drop 5 Pods in a clever formation on Turn 1, trying to maximize your ability to land directly on priority targets. Sternguard land on Firewarriors, Flamer-Tacs land on Kroot (unless they Infiltrated to your side of the board, in which case, ignore them), anything with Meltas/Plasmas lands next to Suits.
    4. I've heard it's possible to have Stormtalons Escort deepstrikers. If this is true, bring them with the Pods like a smart person.
    5. If the Tau can't completely ruin everything you have right away (Hint: I'm pretty sure they can't kill 50 Space Marines on Interceptor alone.), you DECIMATE your targets in order of priority.
    6. Troops > Suits without Interceptor >>> Suits WITH Interceptor, because they can't shoot on the next turn anyways.
    7. Drop Pod unleash Large Blasts if they can, because why they hell not?
    Vulkan He'Stan
    Master of the Forge
    3x Ironclad Dreadnoughts
    = 6x Heavy/Flamers
    30x Sternguard
    = 6x H.Flamers
    = 24x Combiflamers
    60x Tac. Squad
    = 6x H. Flamer + 6x Flamer
    12x Drop Pod


    2965 points, with only 5 models that can hurt anything with AV11 or higher. One Farseer turns up in a Wave Serpent, and laughs at you.

    For what you want it to do - come down and alpha strike a bunch of 4+ infantry - it's great. Realistically, you're not going to find an enemy like that at the 3,000 points mark unless you're exclusively fighting Tyranids. Even Orks will likely have a bunch of vehicles and Grots to hide behind.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2014-01-21 at 04:08 AM.
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    RPG Characters What I Done Played As (Explained Badly)
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    Tales of a Role-Play Gamer - Horrible Optimisation

  9. - Top - End - #969
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by 13_CBS View Post
    Vulkan's rules makes me go a little, mostly since he seems to be usurping Mortarion's shtick as "toughest of all Primarchs". I guess in the long run Mortarion might edge out, but good grief...

    Vulkan's 3++ vs Mortarion's 4++

    Both have T7 and W7

    Resistance to Plasma in the Plasma Editiontm vs rerolling Toughness tests, ignoring most poison, etc.

    ...and Vulkan is a giant beatstick while Mortarion is comparatively just a tank.

    If Vulkan is also somehow cheaper than Mortarion, I'm going to be sad.
    Ah, you'll be glad to hear he's not cheaper, then. He's exactly the same price.

  10. - Top - End - #970
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Hootman View Post
    Oh man. I think I've got it. Someone check my metaphorical math for me.

    Taudar and Eldau are the ultrameta. Everyone wants to bust them, but no one can figure out how. I...think I have two really good ideas.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Codex: ORKS
    The Battering Ram
    1. Take 6 Red Battlewagons with Deffrollas
    2. Fill three with Meganobs with Kombiskorchas (and 2 KFF Big Meks)
    3. Fill three with Shootaboyz
    4. Roll forward 13" in a formation that minimizes your opponent's ability to see anything but front armor. FA 14 with 4HP, baby.
    5. Snipe any Melta/Lance units with Grots on a Quad and Kannons.
    6. Chuckle as they spend all their Markerlights trying to strip your cover on models they can't deal damage to.
    7. Move 7" (Red Paint Job lets you ignore the 6" max move thing), jump out 6". OPEN FIRE. And I do mean fire. Kombiskorchas everywhere.

    You have covered 26"+8" templates gives you a 34" threat range, and you can still Assault anything that's still alive. You have 2+ armor on half your army. Can Taudar or Eldau take the heat?


    Spoiler
    Show
    Codex: SPACE MARINES
    I Love the Smell of Promethium in the Morning
    0. I recommend Salamanders, but technically any Vanilla set can do this.
    1. Take 9 Drop Pods. Come back and add in DWML's or Locator Beacons if you have leftover points at the end.
    2. Fill those Pods with Heavy Flamer Sternguard, Tacticals with Flamers and/or Meltas, and either Flamer-Ironclads (lol, no one expects the Master of the Forge!) or Thunderfire Cannons. Command Squads optional, but recommended as Bargain Sterns with FNP.
    3. Drop 5 Pods in a clever formation on Turn 1, trying to maximize your ability to land directly on priority targets. Sternguard land on Firewarriors, Flamer-Tacs land on Kroot (unless they Infiltrated to your side of the board, in which case, ignore them), anything with Meltas/Plasmas lands next to Suits.
    4. I've heard it's possible to have Stormtalons Escort deepstrikers. If this is true, bring them with the Pods like a smart person.
    5. If the Tau can't completely ruin everything you have right away (Hint: I'm pretty sure they can't kill 50 Space Marines on Interceptor alone.), you DECIMATE your targets in order of priority.
    6. Troops > Suits without Interceptor >>> Suits WITH Interceptor, because they can't shoot on the next turn anyways.
    7. Drop Pod unleash Large Blasts if they can, because why they hell not?

    Some 1600+ points of Space Marines break the line on Turn 1 with a **** load of firepower (some of it once again literal) and assassinate as much as possible. Is this game? Do the Space Marines ever get to attack, because the Tau have "so much Interceptor"? Do the Eldar have anything to turn the Alphastrike on its head once their beloved range and troll-tastic cover saves are stripped away by the Emperor's cleansing flames?


    Comments would be awesome. I'm too tired to minmax exact lists, but I know both of them are possible if you build carefully and prioritize.

    Please forgive any egregious typos, should they exist. I'll reread in the morning to fix anything, and strike this out when it's done.
    The first list has potential but the issue there is that Tau can just plan for it with deployment and reserves. Kroot/Pathfinders go to outflank, Firewarriors to reserve and suits are on the table off the front edge. Wagons trundle up the table first turn I drop Str 9 ordinance blasts on them to try to catch 2 per template while my heavies support with markerlights and flank around to try to get sides. It takes you 3 turns to get to assault in Dawn of war (2 turns across the no-mans land, assault turn 3) so I've probably stopped at least a few of your wagons along the way and I can try to use the wrecks to hold up your other ones. If I get lucky and get the no-scatter warlord trait then I just drop a riptide behind them for even easier kills. It's a tough list for Tau to stop with the way their meta build has shifted (less Str 10 AP 1, more Str 7/8). Eldar just play the waiting game with serpents or send Wraithknights in to smash the things to pieces since str 8 ap 2 vs AV 10 (rear) and then the orks cry as serpent shields chew them apart. Not to mention bright lances should get 1 or 2 wagons per turn so I stop your skorchas first then the rest I can just skirt around.

    The second is pretty nasty as well but you have to realize the Tau just castle and they push your pods out far enough where they can't really hit anything vital to my list. If I get first turn (you're podding in, you want second turn) then I'll take pot shots at what you give me first turn, likely not much and prepare for your incoming wave (i.e. Nova charge for max dakka). If we're honestly at 3K then I'm gonna be running 6 Riptides (4 if single force org) and you are going to seriously hate life when you land as I blast an absurd amount of firepower into you and probably disable a few of your squads. After that I keep the castle up as best I can and abuse small arms/overwatch fire to take out threats and maybe interceptor anything else that really bothers me on the drop. I can pretty much guarantee dead dreads the turn they drop and the lack of any serious AP 1/2 shooting makes my riptides really happy (as listed you have 4 models in the army that can get through a 2+ save, 3 of them are walkers and the last is a T4 character on foot). All in all, pretty nasty on the drop and my troops are hurting but still can't finish the riptides and is is a moderate threat to suit teams who just work to hopscotch away from most of your shooting.

    Eldar Wave spam just laughs it's way to the bank on this one, use serpents for your castle to push the flamers out of range, str 4/5 vs. AV 12 bounces, bright lances/wraithknights chew apart dreads, serpent shield and eldar torrent fire handles marines, repeat ad nauseum.

    The ork idea wasn't bad but it suffers for having to cross the board (PRAY you don't get hammer and Anvil) but the SM list gives up a lot of what's really scary vs. Tau, Thunderfire cannons and Grav weapon bikes. Tau infantry will bite it to the cannons (firewarriors are the only troops to get a save if you shoot the right rounds, and that's going to be 5+) while the grav weapons will typically down a riptide in 1 shooting phase per squad and they'll win any assault they try to tie up in barring maybe a riptide and if they are in assault with a riptide the tau player is hurting. Crisis suits die to mass bolter or grav shots (a suit team is pretty much 6 marines with special weapons) and you just assault any vehicles that are on the table and put a potato up the tailpipe. The SM meta is meta for a reason, it just didn't completely break the back of the Tau codex because Tau actually have some survivable field presence (if you break it down point for point the crisis teams are more shooting but T4 3+ W2 does not survive well).
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Ah, you'll be glad to hear he's not cheaper, then. He's exactly the same price.
    Welp.

    Meanwhile: in your opinon, are 30k Tactical Squads useful as troops? On one hand, 250 points for 20 MEQ bodies seems pretty good. On the other hand, Final Destination Bolters Only makes them seem rather inflexible.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    As it has not been done, the Playground guide to IG Armoured Battle Group. A Forge World list in IA volume 1 (2nd edition), and my limited play experience with it.

    Basically this is the "Tank'gasm" list for tread heads. I Will try and add the correct colour designations.

    Straight off the bat FW warns you that unless you take the few infantry options you will not be able to claim objectives, you may still have Tanks for troops but they still are vehicles.

    Armoured Battle Group (ABG) allies in the same manner as regular Imperial guard, so you know those restriced troop options, well allie with regular guard or Inquisition for cheap objective holders and spend the rest of your points on the stuff you love, namely things with treads.

    ABG special rules
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    Co-axial weapon; if the co-axial weapon hits (usually a H.stubber) the main gun it's slaved too can re roll to hit
    Recovery Vehicle: really long complicated rules about dragging imobolized vehicles
    Auto-Targetting: ignores any cover saves, or cover save bonus provided by Supersonic, Jink, or flat out

    Company Comand Tank: Basically your comand tank is issuing orders like an IG, one order per turn. Since you dont have a leadership its a straight d6, 24 range (only applies to Leman Russ varients, thunder siege tanks, salamanders, Destroyer Tank hunters, and Hellhouns)
    1-Garbled Communication (no more orders this turn at all)
    2-3 Could you Repeat that sir?: that Company Comand Tank failed it's order
    4-5 Orders Recieved Sir!
    6 Inspired Tactics: That comand tank can now issue two orders for the rest of the game (the cap)

    The Orders:
    Concentrated Fire: the ordered unit nominates a target, that target has to re-roll successful cover saves against the ordered unit
    Erratic Manoeuvres: Assault attacks (including grenades) must re roll successful attacks against the nominated unit until the begining of the owners next turn, that unit may only snap fire
    Full Speed Ahead: flat out gets you an extra d3


    ABG Wargear
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    Mine Plough: 2d6 on Dangerous Terrain, faild on double ones, extra d3+1 str 2 Ap- hits on tank shock
    Artificer Hull extra hull point up to a maximum of 5 (so no use on super heavies)
    Armoured Track Guards: 4+ save against any immobilised result (depends on how many grav weapons in your area
    Improved Comms: +6 range on orders
    AA Heavy stubber or Storm bolter: those weapons gain skyfire...
    Anti-Grenade Mesh: 5+ save vs all grenades including melta bombs
    ABG vehicles have access to all the standard IG vehicle upgrades: Pintle mounted weapons, hunter killer missles, dozer blade, extra armour and Camo-netting

    Specialist Ammunition: these can only be bought by your Commisar Tanks and Company Comand Tanks, and are limited to a specific Leman Russ variant, you can choose to fire the special Ammo or the Regular guns)

    InFernus Shells: Leman Russ Battle Tank battle cannon 48' str 6 ap 4 Ordanance 1, large blast Ignores cover (hey Pathfinders...)
    Illum shells: Your vehicles have spot lights, skip
    Auger Shells: Conquerors only, 48' str 8 ap 3, Heavy 1, gets hot, cratering (on a glance or pen reduce AV from that side by 1)
    Beast Hunter Shells: Vanquishers only 72' str 8 AP2 heavy 1, blast (3) Instant death (in a Rip tide/Wraight knight enviroment this should be purple good


    ABG Warlord traits:
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    1-Night Attacker (auto night fighting first turn, and near all your vehicles have spot lights)
    2-Disciple of Macharius: single friendly vehicle squadron has outflank/acute senses
    3-Icon of Imperial glory: Friendlies get stuborn within 12
    4-Tip of the Spear: warlord and all vehicles with in 12 of him may add d6 to any flat out (note it stated ALL vehicles)
    5-Armoured Assault: warlord is scoring (need it in this army)
    6- Steel Juggernaut: you get an extra VP for each vehicle destroyed by your warlord by ramming


    Note: your Company Comand Tank, Commisar Tank run the full FW gamut of Leman Russ variants, complete with options for all sorts of sponsons. In other words tons of options. What is best generally depends on your Meta(tm) area. For me, Leman Russ Vanguishers with Beast hunter shells and a co-axial h.stubber, maybe a lascannon works "Well enough" for most things. (If you want specific point values feel free to message as I forgot how to phrase it to avoid annoying GW)

    HQ
    Spoiler
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    Company Comand Tank, A bs 4 tank with all the options availible. Take two!

    Armoured Fist Command Squad: it's a comand squad with mandatory Chimera

    Salamander Reconnaisance Commander: an av 12/10/10 open topped fast comander, cheaper the the Comand tank, but really you are playing ABG, man up and go AV 14 or go home!



    Elites
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    Commissar Tank: like the Company Comand Tank, BS 4, ANY imperial guard unit in 6' of the Commissariat crew count as leader ship 10! All the fixings/trimmings as the Company Comand Tank

    Destroyer Tank Hunters: they cost 1.6 (Thunder Fire Cannons TFC), 14/13/10. non turretted Heavy Laster Destroyer array 60' str 9 ap 2, twin linked ordanance 1 (you decide it's worth)

    Atlas Recovery Tank (.85TFC) no offensive capacity, is a repair/recovery vehicle. Take the techpriest option instead

    Armoured Fist Storm Trooper Squad: (1.4TFC) a storm trooper squad with a mandatory chimera

    Tech Priest Enginseer (.45 TFC) a techpriest in his own 10/10/10 Trojan tank. He can repair while in base contact, while inside his tank, and grants one tank/turn prefered enemy! ABG can take 0-2 and it uses up no FoC



    Troops
    Spoiler
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    Battle Tank Squadron: This is your Leman Russ Battle tank, Exterminator, Conqueror, Annihilator, Vanquisher and Eradicator options 1-3 per FoC, starts at (1.5TFC) and more expensive for the vanquisher and eradicator, and lots of options

    Siege Tank Squadron: This is your Leman Russ Thunderer (a turretless demolisher), Demonilsher, Punisher, and Executioner. (1.4TFC) to start, more expensive for the Demolisher/punisher/Executioner (25/40/50)

    Armoured Fist Squad: its a guard platoon with a mandatory Chimera (1.05 TFC)

    Armoured Fist Veterans: Here's your vet squad but wiht a built in chimera, and only two special weapons. (0.7TFC



    Fast Attack
    Spoiler
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    Scout Sentinels and Armoured Sentinel Squadrons, ehhh just not impressed

    Imperial Navy Gunship suppor 0-1 squadron: 1-3 Vultures or Vendetta: for me this is a really really tough choice both the Vendeta and Vulture have so much to offer, especially the Vulture it's weapon lodeouts. Damn shame it's 0-1

    Tauros Strike Squadron: Leave it to the Ellyssian drop troops

    Salamander Recon Squadrons: not really that bad, just not worth the points which can and should be spent on AV 14

    HellHound Squadron: your Hell/Devil/Bane varients can be good, can be bad depends on your situation.



    Heavy Support
    Spoiler
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    Hydra Flak Tank Battery 1-3 Hydras (0.75TFC) with two twin linked auto targetting auto cannons, yes and hell yes for me (I used two batteries of two, as there are too many eldar/d.eldar in my neck of the woods)

    Basilisk/Medusa Ordance battery: You can mix which type of gun (just kidding you were going to get Medusa's any way. The only thing that prevents this from being in the blue is that you get so many other nasty guns else where it's almost redundent.

    Griffon Strike Battery: 1-5 Griffon Heavy Mortar's for the same price as a Hydra. Borderline Orange for me unless you really face hordes.

    Colossus Bombard Battery: (1.4TFC) of awsome. I have a weak spot for this tank, probably it's the str 6, ap 3, large blast, barrage, ordanance 1, ignores cover

    Armoured Fist Heavy weapons squad: yep it's your heavy weapon squad (3) with a Chimera

    Armoured Fist cyclops Demolition squad: expensive suicide vehicles who's damage is easy accomplished else where

    Imperial Navy air support: The Thunderbolt, Lightning and Avenger, options galore


    (I will try and edit and add in the special characters)
    Tip: to be "that guy" used stronghold assault for a void network relay, nothing says wall of av 14 wih multiple overlapping av 12 void shields! :)

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by DaedalusMkV View Post
    What we do around here, at least in friendly games since tournaments tend to focus more on RAW, is give everyone one FOC. Want to take Allies? Every Allied unit you take takes up the equivalent slot on your core FOC in addition to the usual Allied Detachment restrictions. Planning on using Taudar? You get one Farseer and one Commander, max. No 'free' Farseers. It removes the problem with Allies often being just a stupid meta-gamey way to abuse extra FOC slots (like Tau/Farsight being used solely as a means to fit 4-5 Riptides and Sky Rays into a list while still packing a few Crisis Suits) and means there's actually something vaguely resembling a downside to bringing along an Allied detachment. It generally works pretty well, at least in my opinion, without really cutting into the core purpose of allowing Allies in the first place.
    Sadly, Tau break that as well. Need more Crisis suits but your army slots are taken? Ally in Farsight, he brings them in troops, you won't exactly need all of these. Oh, and he brings in a free slot Riptide in tow. And both Riptides can be made even better. Oh, and is battlesuit commander that unlike standard one is tough enough to go to town with most battle brother units. Not like you will ever need it but it's nice to have. Oh, and his kind of Tau can function well even with limited markerlights. Of, and want some anti-meta gear normal Tau also lack in Daemon or Eldar meta infestation case? You get that too! So, done.

    Which is sad because FE has some of the best fluff in 6th ed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    But, having the Formation actually take slots - since you're taking the units anyway, right? - is interesting. It certainly limits the TWV Stormtalon Formation in most games. And, if you want the full six, you could play in double Force Org games where you actually can use six. But, everyone will have Double Force Org. I'll have to look over some of the other Formations to see how it balances out.
    3 Stormtalons, 3 Storm Ravens, packing everything on Skyshield sadly still works even in 1500 games if you really want to be TFG?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    3 Stormtalons, 3 Storm Ravens, packing everything on Skyshield sadly still works even in 1500 games if you really want to be TFG?
    Stormtalon; Skyhammer Missiles - 125 Points
    Stormtalon; Skyhammer Missiles - 125 Points
    Stormtalon; Skyhammer Missiles - 125 Points
    Stormraven - 200 Points
    Stormraven - 200 Points
    Stormraven - 200 Points

    Skyshield Landing Pad - 75 Points

    1050/1500

    You have 450 Points worth of models on the board in turn 1. So, your cheapest HQ tax is a Librarian. And that's not even including that without Tigurius, you have no access to Scrier's Gaze to make sure you have as many as possible Fliers come in on Turn 2. So, now you've got 385 Points left. What's that, two Tactical Squads and change?

    I know it's 1500 and they probably have a 4++. But if you can't obliterate around 20 Marines - even with 50% less casualties than normal - you need to rethink your army. Blow away the Scoring models, neither Stormtalons or 'Ravens Ignore Cover. As soon as the Scoring units get destroyed, you just Go To Ground for the remainder of the game. Cron-Air has the same problem. Mass Fliers just doesn't work unless you have the Scoring to back it up, and Necrons are a lot more resilient than Marines.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2014-01-21 at 08:08 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Stormtalon; Skyhammer Missiles - 125 Points
    Stormtalon; Skyhammer Missiles - 125 Points
    Stormtalon; Skyhammer Missiles - 125 Points
    Stormraven - 200 Points
    Stormraven - 200 Points
    Stormraven - 200 Points

    Skyshield Landing Pad - 75 Points

    1050/1500

    You have 450 Points worth of models on the board in turn 1. So, your cheapest HQ tax is a Librarian. And that's not even including that without Tigurius, you have no access to Scrier's Gaze to make sure you have as many as possible Fliers come in on Turn 2. So, now you've got 385 Points left. What's that, two Tactical Squads and change?

    I know it's 1500 and they probably have a 4++. But if you can't obliterate around 20 Marines - even with 50% less casualties than normal - you need to rethink your army. Blow away the Scoring models, neither Stormtalons or 'Ravens Ignore Cover. As soon as the Scoring units get destroyed, you just Go To Ground for the remainder of the game. Cron-Air has the same problem. Mass Fliers just doesn't work unless you have the Scoring to back it up, and Necrons are a lot more resilient than Marines.
    If I recall my point costs, Two tactical squads and Tigrius would just barely fit there. And you might be able to line of sight away the fire from turn 1 unless you're staring down a drop pod army.... Actually, how does moving onto a sky shield work, exactly?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Actually, how does moving onto a sky shield work, exactly?
    "To move onto or off of the landing pad counts as moving through Difficult Terrain." - page 115

    Seems easy. Except if you roll badly, sucks to be you.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by 13_CBS View Post
    Welp.

    Meanwhile: in your opinon, are 30k Tactical Squads useful as troops? On one hand, 250 points for 20 MEQ bodies seems pretty good. On the other hand, Final Destination Bolters Only makes them seem rather inflexible.
    I'm half sold on them. The thing is that they play (oddly) a bit like Eldar. They have dedicated troops who can do one thing, and one thing only. If you can balance that reasonably, then you can do well.

    I'm still trying to work out the best way to use them.

    Objective sitters is the least painful; 20 Men with Apothecary. It's 300 points, nearly, though, and it's one Contemptor Assault away from being swept off. One lone meltabomb isn't that effective. Iron Hands works well with that. Two of these can secure your home-base, especially when coupled with the Rite of War.

    The next option is tooled up. I know you would prefer to be playing with the cool toys, your Spartans, Achilles-Alpha's, Interceptor-Executioners, Firedrakes, Night Raptors, etc, but some Legions put real focus on the Tacticals; Sons of Horus, Word Bearers, and Night Lords especially. My favourite so far is the set up in my Iron Hand list (but it can apply to any legion, really, it just favours those I've mentioned); Divination Librarian with Boarding Shield, Apothecary, 20 Men, add on additional close combat weapons, and you have a unit which can strip open other enemy units with ease, and either work in an assault (22 men, with 3 attacks on the charge; SoH get an additional attack, NL get +1 to wound (and a Rending S5 weapon for the Sergeant, hardly a Paragon Praetor, but scary enough, and can deal with the inevitable Artificer armour Sergeant), and WB with Diabolist have Preferred enemy; Loyalist). Throw in the vexilla.

    The alternate one is one which works for Orbital Assault or Rhino Rush.

    Orbital Assault obviously requires Drop Podding in; unfortunately, infantry have to Drop pod in. However, Terminators, despite gaining the rule, DO NOT have to Deep Strike. So have these Terminators 10 Strong. Have your Legion Drop Pods land behind enemy lines, and contest objectives. This in my eyes works best with Fulgrim; you can reroll successful reserves automatically. It's not exactly a rocket science, but it's one way of late game objective grabbing. It works when you have free points; 185pts is still a lot of points (2 Predators is 150, after all, and puts out more hurt), but it's something which you can use to threaten an enemy with. Make them BP/CCW (drop the bolters) and give them a meltabomb. I tried this against a Medusa car-park, and it worked quite well. Obviously, other units can fulfil it better depending on Legion; Salamanders Pyroclasts (although, sadly, the Salamander's Rite of War cancels it out).

    The other way is to use them as minimum points as possible, and take a ton of Terminators.

    I like the hordes of marines, just for the sheer visual spectacle of it. The one major threat to them (outside of Contemptors) are Medusa with Phospex (against normal ones, you should find area terrain), but a) they're a rarity as Artillery armies tend to suck against standard lists, and b) dealt with by any form of medium AV; e.g cheap predators, or Quad Mortars can do it, AV10 sucks, and 3 quad mortars put out 12 S5 blasts a turn; that will soon reduce Medusa's to slag.

    Other obvious threats are PW marines, but you're playing 30K, you should have plenty that can take out marines and termi's. If not... why not? You're playing 30K, that's the purpose of it.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    *A 2965pt list*
    I was thinking more along the lines of...

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    HQ
    Vulkan He'Stan, 190pts

    Command Squad, 200pts
    -3 Combi-gravs, 1 Storm Shield, 1 Apothecary
    +Drop Pod (with Locator Beacon)

    ELITES
    Sternguard 10, 330pts
    -2 Heavy Flamers, 3 Combi-meltas
    +Drop Pod (with Deathwind Missile Launcher)

    Sternguard 10, 325pts
    -2 Heavy Flamers, 3 Combi-meltas
    +Drop Pod (with Locator Beacon)

    Ironclad Dreadnought, 170pts
    -Heavy Flamer, Meltagun
    +Drop Pod

    TROOPS
    Tactical Marines 10, 215pts
    -Grav-gun, Multimelta, Combi-grav
    +Drop Pod (with Deathwind Missile Launcher)

    Tactical Marines 10, 200pts
    -Flamer, Multimelta, Combi-flamer
    +Drop Pod

    Tactical Marines 5, 125pts
    -Melta, Combi-melta
    +Drop Pod

    Tactical Marines 5, 125pts
    -Melta, Combi-melta
    +Drop Pod

    Tactical Marines 5, 120pts
    Flamer, Combi-flamer
    +Drop Pod

    TOTAL: 2000 points


    Sure, it lacks the jazz of the Stormtalon-Escorting-Pods idea, and wouldn't do diddly against Flyers, but in a meta where you can supposedly throw a rock and ONLY hit people playing Tau, Eldar, or some combination of the two, you won't see more than one or two anyways, and TL Multimeltas aren't the worst thing to be firing if you have to.

    I upped the number of meltas halfway through to make sure no one could accuse me of not reading your concern over crushing AV11+.
    Last edited by Hootman; 2014-01-21 at 10:53 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    You have 450 Points worth of models on the board in turn 1. So, your cheapest HQ tax is a Librarian. And that's not even including that without Tigurius, you have no access to Scrier's Gaze to make sure you have as many as possible Fliers come in on Turn 2. So, now you've got 385 Points left. What's that, two Tactical Squads and change?
    Can't you upgrade Skyshield with Ready For Takeoff to not even need that?

    I know it's 1500 and they probably have a 4++. But if you can't obliterate around 20 Marines - even with 50% less casualties than normal - you need to rethink your army.
    If I ran this I'd just try to hide my 2 squads out of LoS, place them out of range or have them go to ground for 2+ save.

    Blow away the Scoring models, neither Stormtalons or 'Ravens Ignore Cover.
    Fair point, but the TWV and any Thunderfires you take do ignore them and can give enemy nasty surprise at the end of the game. But yes, that wouldn't be exactly fun to play.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Issabella View Post
    As it has not been done, the Playground guide to IG Armoured Battle Group. A Forge World list in IA volume 1 (2nd edition), and my limited play experience with it.
    How did I miss this? Anyway...Added to the OP.

    Straight off the bat FW warns you that unless you take the few infantry options you will not be able to claim objectives, you may still have Tanks for troops but they still are vehicles.
    That's nice of them to tell you that.

    Concentrated Fire: the ordered unit nominates a target, that target has to re-roll successful cover saves against the ordered unit
    Seems lame. Can't you just pay points to grab Auto-Targeting? Or is that stupidly expensive?

    Improved Comms: +6 range on orders
    How is that bad? Unless it's stupidly expensive.

    Illum shells: Your vehicles have spot lights, skip
    lol. Aren't Searchlights, like, 1 Point?

    Beast Hunter Shells: Vanquishers only 72' str 8 AP2 heavy 1, blast (3) Instant death (in a Rip tide/Wraight knight enviroment this should be purple good
    S8, AP2, Instant Death is Purple Good.

    Tech Priest Enginseer (.45 TFC) a techpriest in his own 10/10/10 Trojan tank. He can repair while in base contact, while inside his tank, and grants one tank/turn prefered enemy! ABG can take 0-2 and it uses up no FoC
    Seems buh-roke.

    Basilisk/Medusa Ordance battery: You can mix which type of gun (just kidding you were going to get Medusa's any way.
    I lol'd.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    Can't you upgrade Skyshield with Ready For Takeoff to not even need that?
    Uhh...That means you don't Scatter if you Deep Strike (and you lose the 4++). It doesn't guarentee you Reserve rolls.

    Fair point, but the TWV and any Thunderfires you take do ignore them
    What? How do you even have that? You have 450 Points to play with, and you have no HQ or Troops yet.
    And TWVs don't have the Ignores Cover ammo, that's part of what makes them terrible.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2014-01-22 at 07:24 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post

    If I ran this I'd just try to hide my 2 squads out of LoS, place them out of range or have them go to ground for 2+ save.
    Some armies move fast enough that they get to shoot at your out of LOS troops on turn 2. That is even if the table has enough LOS blocking terrain for them to hide.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    lol. Aren't Searchlights, like, 1 Point?
    It's better than that. Most of your proper tanks (Russes, Trojans, Salamanders, Atluses, Griffons and Colossi) get it for free, sentinels and hellhounds can get them like you said, and the only ones that can't have them are dedicated transports, hydras, basilisks/medusas and the FW heavy support fliers (but all of the fliers can get Night Vision with a cheap upgrade).

    Odd how some of your ordnance battery vehicles get them but others don't. It's not even a range thing, since colossi get them and they're just as long range as the basilisk, while the short-range medusa don't get them.

  23. - Top - End - #983
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    [QUOTE=Cheesegear;16841822]How did I miss this? Anyway...Added to the OP.



    That's nice of them to tell you that.



    Seems lame. Can't you just pay points to grab Auto-Targeting? Or is that stupidly expensive?

    (The auto Targetting is sadly only on the Hydra's, so unless you are using the Russ varient Eradicator, or a Collassal Bombards cover saves are still your bane)

    How is that bad? Unless it's stupidly expensive.

    (+10pts, when the com range is already 24', seemed wastefull to me)

    lol. Aren't Searchlights, like, 1 Point?

    (Only the Hellhound family does not come auto included with search lights in ABG (yes even the flyers have search lights)


    S8, AP2, Instant Death is Purple Good.

    (S8, Ap2, Instant Death SMALL BLAST! :) shot by a BS 4 Tank who should really really have a co-axial heavy stubber for the re roll)


    Seems buh-roke.

    (Wouldn't be FW if something did not sneak through :) )

    I lol'd.

    (Danke)

  24. - Top - End - #984
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    HQ: vanquisher tank, beast hunter shells, co-axial h.stubber, lascannon. 205 pts

    HQ: Vanquisher tank, beast hunter shells, co-axial h.stubber, lascannon. 205 pts

    TROOPS: 3 Leman Russ battle tanks 450pts.
    2 Leman Russ Demolishers 330pts.

    HEAVY: 2 Squadrons of 2 Hydra Flak Tanks. 300pts

    Inquisition

    2 level 2 divination Inquisitors X6 Servo skulls
    X3 acolyte retinue with a Chimera. 269pts.

    71pts left to flesh out the inquisitors detachment.

    Opinions? 7 AV 14 vehicles. Divination buffing. Servo skulls to push away scouts and infiltrators. The hydra' s are useful vs flyers and skimmers. And the Beast Hunter shells vs the Monstrous creatures. Granted it is a bit light on the actual scoring models (really only the Acolytes) but long on firepower.

  25. - Top - End - #985
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    Olinser's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    So, don't know if somebody else has posted this yet, but:

    http://initiativetabletop.com/2014/0...-hqs-and-more/

    Apparently multiple foreign GW HQs will be closed completely, and allegedly Finecast is getting the axe.

    ALLEGEDLY, Warhammer Fantasy is going to be gone completely.

    The HQ's closing and Finecast getting the axe doesn't surprise me at all, the biggest objection for finecast was we were still paying the exact price as metal models, for basically lower quality than cheaper plastic ones.

    Fantasy getting the axe would really shock me though, I would go back to it in a second if they actually BALANCED the next edition. But then again, this IS GW we're talking about.
    Last edited by Olinser; 2014-01-22 at 09:18 AM.

    ALL HAIL THE GREAT RAK!!

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  26. - Top - End - #986
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Uhh...That means you don't Scatter if you Deep Strike (and you lose the 4++). It doesn't guarentee you Reserve rolls.
    No no no, not the 'unfurled' Skyshield option, 'ready for takeoff' upgrade. You autobring a flyer with it (one with TWV on board, presumably), skipping the rolls entirely. You have 4 flyers with 4++/infiltrate on table first turn to pound whatever skyfire enemy has, potentially all on board second turn.

    And TWVs don't have the Ignores Cover ammo, that's part of what makes them terrible.
    With the formation we're talking about, they outright ignore cover of anything your flyer shot at. So, they have essentially 2 special issue bolts at once.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tehnar View Post
    Some armies move fast enough that they get to shoot at your out of LOS troops on turn 2. That is even if the table has enough LOS blocking terrain for them to hide.
    If between Skyshield and terrain you set up on board you can't set up a pocket for 2 small squads to hide, I'd be really surprised. Not that it matters, anyway, at least one unit is hiding in AV 12 flyer behind 4++, so even shooting your units doesn't work as well as it does against Necron massed fliers, they can't hide them as well.
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  27. - Top - End - #987
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    No no no, not the 'unfurled' Skyshield option, 'ready for takeoff' upgrade.
    That's not in the BRB.
    Unless it's something in Stronghold Assault, which, as far as I've seen has been unilaterally banned and therefore something I don't care about?

    Ditto for Formations. So I'm not going to bother with that one, either.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2014-01-22 at 09:19 AM.
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  28. - Top - End - #988
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Unless it's something in Stronghold Assault,
    It is. Costs 5 points, too, so it's silly.

  29. - Top - End - #989
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    I want to try something different with my eldar, so here is the rough outlines of a list.

    Autarch (equipment may wary, perhaps swooping hawk wings)

    Rangers x5
    Rangers x5
    Rangers x5
    Rangers x5
    Rangers x5
    Rangers x5

    Striking Scorpions, Exarch, claw
    Striking Scorpions, Exarch, claw

    Crimson Hunter, Exarch, starcannons
    Crimson Hunter
    Crimson Hunter

    Warwalkers x3, scatter laser + some other weapon
    Aegis line with comm relay

    Basically the idea is that everything infiltrates/outflanks or is a flier, and that I can manipulate reserves. Priority is ofc sniping down the interceptor stuff, like the quad gun.

    My initial thought is that the army won't do to well vs Tau and its ignore cover galore stuff, but can work against others easily.

    Thoughts? Ideas?
    Last edited by Tehnar; 2014-01-24 at 05:25 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #990
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    I've got a fluff question about the Necrontyr, something in their backstory seems.... wrong somehow. It's said they waged war on the Old Ones out of jealousy because the Necrontyr were dying on a planet blasted by solar radiation, and the race was getting cancer and what not and just generally having a bad time, so they tried to take on the Old Ones but were beat back to the edge of the Galaxy.

    If the Necrontyr had interstellar ships, why didn't they just settle a new planet? Even if the universe is all GRIMDARK, is it too much to ask the Old Ones to help out with the radiation thing in the first place? The only way this wouldn't be a gaping plothole is if the Old Ones were hell bent on keeping the Necrontyr on their original homeworld to watch them die like ants in a microwave. Also, what happened to their sun that it just went all radiation-spewing on them? Because if it had always been that way then its impossible that life evolved all the way up to sapience and society without adapting to the level of radiation. There could be a lot of sound explanations for this but GW's stance seems to be "nope life sucks there forever"

    Can anyone help me come to terms with all this?

    EDIT: ok, so Newcron fluff is that all of that was a deliberate lie by the Silent King or something to stop infighting. that's mildly infuriating.
    Last edited by TimeWizard; 2014-01-24 at 12:21 PM.
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