Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

[Volthawk]

Also, for Iron Hands, the characters have It Will Not Die, which is a 1 in 3 chance of regaining a lost wound every turn. Iron Hands Chapter Masters have four wounds, which when added to the FNP and IWND from Iron Hands, the access to good armour CMs have (relics, artificer armour, storm shields) and the extra toughness from bikes leads to the whole practically unkillable thing.

On attack bikes: In Codex:SM, attack bikes are bought as an extra guy to add onto an existing bike squad, meaning it's all one unit, and thus the only KP you get for it is the one you get when the entire squad is dead (so really here the attack bike makes it harder for the enemy to get KPs, since it's an extra two wounds for the squad). Meanwhile in Codex:DA, although the attack bike is bought with the same slot as the bikers and land speeder, when the game starts it is seperated from the other bikers. This means it's a one bike unit that is easy pickings for First Blood and one KP (it does have two wounds and T5, but given that it only has a 3+ armour save and otherwise has to rely on the basic Jink, that's not really enough for a one man unit to survive for long)

[Darthteej]

So Cheesegear, I was reading through your army guides while my friend was asking about how to expand his Dark Angels, and I noticed something odd about your opinion on the Land Raiders.

In the BA and SM guide, you maintain that the Redeemer is pretty much crap, but in the DA guide you say it's better than the Crusader bar banner shenanigans. Did you just change your mind, or is there something about the DA that makes their Redeemer have more synergy?

[Jotunheim]

Fellow Heretics! To my aid!

So, I received the model I ordered for my chaos lord today from Scibor miniatures.
This is him. He's kinda a big fella.

Spoiler

Show

Anyway, he comes with what looks like a power maul and a power fist. Now, I know that I'm able to field him with pure melee weapons, though I'm not sure if that'd be viable gameplay wise. I suppose I could mod a bolter of some kind ontop of the left gauntlet to be able to field him with something shooty, but is there a reason to?

[Grim Portent]

Not really no, a combi-melta/combi-plasma is nice to have on a lord because they hit on 2s when shooting but it's not necessary to have one.

You could just count him as having the Black Mace or a power maul, the power fist isn't particularly power fistlike in his case, so it's not something I'd say he needs to have for WYSIWYG. If you do go that route you could attach a combi-weapon to his hip and say his gun is holstered while he points dramatically.

[Jotunheim]

I was thinking the black mace as well. His pointing hand is noticably more huge than the one holding the mace, so I still say powerfist, although I'm not sure if that really does anything much for his stats.

[13_CBS]

I believe Cheesegear mentioned previously in the thread that 6th edition as it is now is rather borked--so borked that GW may wish to release 7th edition soon, if not at least major balance changes.

Out of curiosity: what sort of changes would YOU make to the game to make 40k into a balanced game?

Assume that "balanced" means...

1) As many different Armies as reasonably possible have as equal a chance at winning as possible

2) Each Army has at least a handful of different viable builds

Also assume that you can't remove or add new models, but you can modify all other rules in the game (including how the Allies matrix works).

[Eldan]

Melee needs a boost. I like the idea of overwatch, but it turned out too good. Other than that, honestly, I'm quite happy with it. I don't think the core rules are all that problematic. It's just a lot of codices that contain unbalanced units.

So, if I could make a new set of books fall from the sky... I'd probably leave the core rules mostly alone and wish for a new set of codices for everyone. With more options for every unit. I like options on units. Weapon choices, upgradeable squad leader characters and buyable special abilities for everyone.

[Grim Portent]

I'd remove most of the restrictions on when you can assault and make assaulting more reliable. Assault range would be 6+d6 inches, assault would be allowed on first turn, upon deepstriking, outflanking and inflitrating.

Maybe make LoS rolls 3+ for independant characters.

Overwatch I like as is.

Snapshots would be BS-2 to a minimum of 1 rather than being BS 1.

Warlord traits could do with being shaken up a bit, not sure how though.

Fear should give a penalty to morale based on a rating defaulting to 0.

And They Shall Know No Fear should not be immune to Fear, just count as Stubborn against it.

Hmm, not sure what else I'd do, will need to look through the rulebook and see what leaps out at me.

[Eldan]

Mhm. Like a few of those changes.

Could we bring back charging after running, or would that be terrible for some reason?

[Grim Portent]

Mhm. Like a few of those changes.

Could we bring back charging after running, or would that be terrible for some reason?

With 6+d6 charge the distance moved is the same as in 5th by fleet units, but it leaves room for special rules to run and assault in the same turn for quick moving units. Hormagaunts and Wyches for example would be able to move as fast as jump infantry that way, while Orks and Marines are moving at normal infantry speed.

[Cheesegear]

In the BA and SM guide, you maintain that the Redeemer is pretty much crap, but in the DA guide you say it's better than the Crusader bar banner shenanigans. Did you just change your mind, or is there something about the DA that makes their Redeemer have more synergy?

Dark Angel Land Raiders get Dozer Blades. A minor difference, with major consequences for a vehicle that wants to move a lot. Also, have you not read a single thing I've ever said about Dark Angels?

POWER FIELDS!

Out of curiosity: what sort of changes would YOU make to the game to make 40k into a balanced game?

All Codecies must be balanced with each other. Bang. You're done.


Oh, at the rules level?
Warlord Traits should not be random, also they need to be better.
Interceptor shots should only be allowed to shoot at Fliers and Jump Infantry that use Deep Strike only. Alternatively, remove Interceptor fully.
Snap Shots should be BS2.
Remove Overwatch. All of it. You should not be allowed to act during your opponent's turn. This ties into removing Interceptor.
Charge distance should be 6"+Initiative. A fixed value - no matter how small - is better than a random higher value. Always. Especially if you want to have any semblance of 'strategy'.
Allow Transports to go 12" to drop models out. Remove the 6" Disembark move. Assault Vehicle - or not - still applies.
Power Axes should not be Unwieldy. But they should not increase Strength, either.

Bikes only get Jink if they Turbo-Boost.
Invulerable saves can not be better than 3+. Invulnerable saves may not be re-rolled.
Independent Characters may not join Monstrous Creatures.

De-power Divination. ...And probably Telepathy, too (especially Puppet Master). In fact, remove all 'WHFB Random Dice Tables' from 40K entirely. I don't like WHFB. Making 40K more like WHFB makes 40K more bad. 'Random' and 'Strategy' are antonyms.

Make Deny the Witch deny any Power. Receive all the +1s as normal. Then receive a further +1 against Maledictions that target your units. As Eisenhorn teaches us, you can be resistant to esoteric things and mind control. But, you can still be very vulnerable to physical attacks such as Lightning - i.e. Shooting attacks.
A single Psyker may Deny the Witch as many times per turn, equal to his Mastery Level. You can not attempt to Deny the same power more than once - even with multiple Psykers.

Battle Brothers: You can count as 'friendly units', but models should not be allowed to join units that don't come out of their own Detachment.

Actually fixing the Allies Matrix?
Imperium: Imperial Guard, Sisters of Battle, Space Marines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars and Grey Knights.
Chaos: Daemons, Chaos Marines
Eldar: Eldar, Dark Eldar
Tyranids
Necrons
Mercernaries: Orks, Tau
(Some people might recognise this as one of the tables in Apocalypse, sort of)

Codecies from each faction are Battle Brothers - including the no ICs in other books' units rule. Each separate Codex then has a unique list in each Codex which lists Allies of Convenience (including exceptions to the 'Battle Brothers' rule such as Dark Angels and Space Wolves). There are no Desperate Allies. 'Come the Apocalypse' doesn't need to exist. If another army isn't mentioned in your list of Convenient Allies, then you can't Ally with them, at all.
Fixing the Matrix in this way requires a ground-up approach to fixing all the Codecies at the same time, and, planning ahead of time before the Codecies are printed which Allies will work together - although if you have all the Codecies written at the same time, there's no problem in that regard.


...I'm done wishlisting. That's more than enough, anyway.

[Wraith]

Remove random Warlord and Psychic Power tables. Assign them points values depending on the Mastery Level/how 'good' the ability is, or just make minimum 1 choice mandatory if you like; just let the Player pick what they want.
It worked incredibly well for 4th Ed Eldar and 5th Ed. Space Wolves so that they could make flexible and strategic decisions while being easily comparable to each other (it's harder to compare two armies if their special abilities are random and/or change every game, for example) and changing it specifically made the game worse, in my eyes.

Melee needs a boost. I like the idea of overwatch, but it turned out too good. Other than that, honestly, I'm quite happy with it. I don't think the core rules are all that problematic. It's just a lot of codices that contain unbalanced units.

With this in mind, I would bring back Follow Up Assaults. Way back in the Dark Age of Second Edition, you used to be able to make your Consolidation move into a nearby enemy unit and immediately engage them in Melee, which would be resolved next PLAYER turn, not straight away. It did NOT count as a Charge maneuver for the purposes of extra attacks, Hammer of Wrath and the likes, just just moved into position to attack in the next assault phase.

In 2nd it wasn't very well balanced because one good CC unit could just roll it's way down an entire battle line one unit after another, each PLAYER turn. I think 6th Ed. would go a long way to fixing that, both with how the melee system works and the inclusion of Overwatch - everyone gets something new to do and a new way to improve a shooty or combatty army. Sure, you can engage a unit of mine every turn.... But now, I get to shoot you each time, too.

[Eldan]

Hah. I remember Follow-up. Good times.

[Timberwolf]

Out of curiosity: what sort of changes would YOU make to the game to make 40k into a balanced game?.

I would...

Bring back proper psychic defence. Not the deny the witch thing. I thimk ive actually stopped the power maybe twice with a 6+ roll. Its a bit rubbish. Give each armg something that works, even necrons and tau and make it so that all powers can be blocked.

Start issuing all the codices at the same time so they have the time between editions to balance properly and work on them.

Have power axes make you initiative 2 so theres a reason to take them over fists. alternatively, lose the differentiation between power weapons at all. I like the idea, but its made too much stuff, like most of the characters useless. Dantes striking at I1, Fisty able to rip up a Landraider but entirely unable to punch out a terminator, the Logan Grimnar rules lawyer WYSIWYG argument about his pointless frost axe (now thankfully buried at a crossroads with a stake through its heart) and the list goes on.

[Trixie]

Interceptor shots should only be allowed to shoot at Fliers and Jump Infantry that use Deep Strike only.

Wouldn't that be a huge boost to all 'mass deep strike' lists? One of the least fun things to play against for some armies?

Snap Shots should be BS2.

Meaning, orks would be better shoots than the Emperor's Fury?

Remove Overwatch. All of it. You should not be allowed to act during your opponent's turn. This ties into removing Interceptor.

So, huge nerfs to anything that isn't primarily CC? Eh, CC era was kind bad, I'd honestly give more options to actually get into CC, but shooting armies need some form of defence.

Charge distance should be 6"+Initiative. A fixed value - no matter how small - is better than a random higher value. Always. Especially if you want to have any semblance of 'strategy'.

Wouldn't that be a huge nerf to orks, tyranids, and necrons? Plus lead to huge arguments about Hammernators and similar bi-initiative units?

Power Axes should not be Unwieldy. But they should not increase Strength, either.

AP2 swords?

Independent Characters may not join Monstrous Creatures.

Huge tyranids nerf?

In fact, remove all 'WHFB Random Dice Tables' from 40K entirely.

You mean, fire Phil Kelly?

Make Deny the Witch deny any Power.

How would that work? Deny buffs enemy has, too? Because I don't see what else you could deny other than very small changes to what you can now.

Battle Brothers: You can count as 'friendly units', but models should not be allowed to join units that don't come out of their own Detachment.

Eh, that works in books, so why shouldn't it in game?

Each separate Codex then has a unique list in each Codex which lists Allies of Convenience (including exceptions to the 'Battle Brothers' rule such as Dark Angels and Space Wolves).

So, basically, as it is now?

I think a table is still better idea, more resolution and nuance who can take what, and really, in some cases (GK, BT, BA) cooperating factions are far too different than norm to roll them in one side.

[Cheesegear]

Wouldn't that be a huge boost to all 'mass deep strike' lists? One of the least fun things to play against for some armies?

Which list would that be, then? Anything more than 3 Deep Striking units needs to be really careful about what it's doing in order to not get shot off the board in one turn.

Oh, right, I forgot you can shoot at Drop Pods, too.

What Interceptor should not be allowed to shoot at, is Outflankers. Maybe then anything that isn't 20+ Kroot would be useful in that role.

Meaning, orks would be better shoots than the Emperor's Fury?

They'd be the same. BS2.

So, huge nerfs to anything that isn't primarily CC? Eh, CC era was kind bad, I'd honestly give more options to actually get into CC, but shooting armies need some form of defence.

You mean aside from the massive buffs that shooting units have in 6th Ed. anyway? If you want to balance the game, Assault needs to be viable. Part of that is removing Overwatch.

Overwatch. Remove front models first. Guess what, you're no longer in Charge range. Not only did you not Charge, but I got to kill your models in your turn. Overwatch is awesome!

Wouldn't that be a huge nerf to orks, tyranids, and necrons? Plus lead to huge arguments about Hammernators and similar bi-initiative units?

Tyranids are I4 and/or 5. Throw in a change to the Fleet rule to reflect the change in Charge moves and they're fine.

Necrons shouldn't be in combat. Therefore they shouldn't Charge. Nerf? I don't care. It fits the theme. Not Assaulting then becomes Necrons' schtick, same as non-Kroot, non-Riptide Tau.

AP2 swords?

Change Power Weapons back to what they used to be? Point is, there needs to be a reason to take Axes instead of Power Fists.

Huge tyranids nerf?

How is that huge? For Tyranids, it only stops Alpha Warriors from joining Carnifex Broods. Which they shouldn't be doing anyway. The idea is to prevent Tau Riptide Commander nonsense. Since that's the only notable example I can think of, there is no reason anyway that ICs should be able to join Monstrous Creatures.

How would that work? Deny buffs enemy has, too?

Yes. You should be able to Deny Blessings.

that works in books, so why shouldn't it in game?

Because it's broken. If I was 'balancing' the game, like the exercise intends, this would go a long way to fixing several broken things that are only - and I do mean only - taken just for gimmicks. The only reason I ally in Dark Angel Librarians is for Divination, Fearless, a Power Field, and on the odd occasion PF (Chaos Marines). I should not be allowed to do that.

I think a table is still better idea, more resolution and nuance who can take what, and really, in some cases (GK, BT, BA) cooperating factions are far too different than norm to roll them in one side.

Codex: Inquisition already gives free Inquisitor Battle Brothers to all Imperial armies. You may as well just open it all the way to prevent 'gimmicks' and drop the Inquisition Codex 'cause it's crap. Sure, all Imperial armies now have Coteaz. No tax. No. Force a Troops tax.
- This is why C:I is banned in the first place. If you want Grey Knights, Ally in Grey Knights.

Black Templars are Battle Brothers with all Imperial factions except Grey Knights (sans Inquisition). So, my Apocalypse-style ally system is no different. Ditto for Blood Angels.

The Matrix is clunky and dumb. Throw in the Faction system to bring Sisters out of the hellhole that they're in.


If you want to talk about balance, take a look at the Top 8 armies in the game right now, in order;
Eldar/Tau
Tau/Eldar
Eldar/Dark Eldar
Daemons/Chaos Marines
Tau/Farsight
Necrons/Tau
Eldar
Tau/Space Marines

See a pattern? Why is this the case? If you want to talk about balance, you need to address why these armies are overwhelmingly superior.

[ZeltArruin]

Make Twin-Linked rerolls only hit on 6s or only re-roll 1s? The rampant twin-linking that's in Eldar and Tau seems problematic.

[lord_khaine]

Overwatch. Remove front models first. Guess what, you're no longer in Charge range. Not only did you not Charge, but I got to kill your models in your turn. Overwatch is awesome!

Then its a bit easyer to just remove the models after they have been moved, so you cant Overwatch yourself out of a charge.

Make Twin-Linked rerolls only hit on 6s or only re-roll 1s? The rampant twin-linking that's in Eldar and Tau seems problematic.

Dont think it would do much actually, Eldars have BS 4 and farseers, while Tau has markerlights.

I think this would hurt other armies worse.

[Jormengand]

Snap Shots should be BS2.

I preferred re-rolling successes, so that you're worse at shooting fliers than ground troops, but space marines are actually still more likely to hit than orks.

[Eldan]

I'd probably resolve a lot of things with a penalty to hit.

But then, I'm a fantasy player. Penalties to hit with ranged weapons for all kinds of things make sense to me. Cover saves, heavy weapons on assault, stealth, night fighting... I'd cover them all by penalties to hit,

[Requizen]

Overwatch. Remove front models first. Guess what, you're no longer in Charge range. Not only did you not Charge, but I got to kill your models in your turn. Overwatch is awesome!

Yeah, I only started really playing in 6th and I have to say, even as a Necron player (yay 40 shots thanks to Rapid Fire Warriors), Overwatch seems a bit dumb. There should be some things that give charge defense (for example, Lighting Field on the Stormteks), but a squad of Guardsmen shouldn't be able to remove an entire blob of Boyz or Hormies before they even get there. That is, on the charging player's turn, they should be able to gun them down as they move across the board.

Necrons shouldn't be in combat. Therefore they shouldn't Charge. Nerf? I don't care. It fits the theme. Not Assaulting then becomes Necrons' schtick, same as non-Kroot, non-Riptide Tau.

But I like my Lychguard/Lord-with-an-orb-and-scythe/Obyron Ball of choppy :P

[Rakaydos]

perhaps it's just my meta, but I havnt had a problem with my CC list. As long as they're fast enough to get across the table and tough enough to take anything thrown at them, overwatch is at best a minor inconvience.

[Ishikar]

Make Twin-Linked rerolls only hit on 6s or only re-roll 1s? The rampant twin-linking that's in Eldar and Tau seems problematic.

I'll give you Eldar scatter lasers for twin link problems but Tau have Broadsides, Gun Drones, Riptide secondary weapons, and SMS on vehicles that are twin-linked in codex. Earthtide effectively gets it with re-roll 1's and markerlight support and Crisis Suits can pay about 33-50% increased points and give up a support system slot to twin-link a gun. This is off the top of my head so I will admit I may be neglecting a few.

As for how to fix 40K as it is now I'd agree on looking to balance the books, Hell chicken, screamer council, seer council and O'Sherra star are all too problematic in game, only compounded by GW's crazy FAQ/Errata process. Some units (Noise Marines and Thousand Sons for example) are unplayably expensive outside of fluffy/casual games and models going from really good to garbage just ticks people off.

Overwatch is alright as far as I see it now, even when I'm focus firing a full team of missile-tides as support I maybe net 3-4 hits which are likely getting cover saves against them. Hot dice can make that a "I assaulted and he blew up my army" event but even my most memorable overwatch was when a team of broadsides and 2 crisis teams support fired 2 wounds off of a charging chaos lord on a juggernaut and that was mostly because he rolled like crap and failed 2 out of 3 3+ saves.

I would argue long and hard about consolidation into close combat or assaulting off deepstrike because it is HUGELY punishing for some armies. It basically let's jump/calv/beast assault units spend the entire game hidden where a shooting army can't hurt them. It's possible to pull that already if you pick your fights and manage to keep your wins to two turn affairs to hide in your opponent's turn.

Interceptor is one of those tricky things to deal with and balance. The Tau can get it cheaply for their Suits and it makes some lists laughably easy (DA Terminator drop) but it's also their main defense from getting their list neutered by drop pod sternguard. Now shooting out drop pods would be very thematic and cool but it'd also be rather heinously overpowered instead of "Pod hits, squad runs to close with Tau units, eats non-blast interceptor fire" (that makes drop sternguard still good vs Tau) it instead becomes "Drop Pod is shot out of the air and the whole squad dies, that was fun" or "Okay, you can shoot my 35 point pod but it's already a dead unit for effective play since the troops are out". Also as it stands it's a way to keep people from playing the second turn gambit with a pod/deepstrike army to force the Tau into what effectively amounts to having one less turn of play.

What I think the biggest problem with 6th edition is at the moment are people who don't play with enough LoS blocking terrain. With proper blocking terrain assault is still powerful (1 model in LoS to charge, declare, overwatch hits 1 model, unit can make the charge mostly unmolested) and it makes shooting armies need to move to actually get shots or claim objectives instead of running the leaf-blower style list.

First turn assaults off of scout/infiltrate is also not a good thing because of what it allows beasts/bikes to pull off. On a standard Dawn of war deployment it potentially allows them to win first turn, scout 12" (mid-field), move 12" (opponent's deployment), and assault 2d6 for a 26" to 36" range. That effectively averages to 31" which leaves about 5" of "Safe" space for your opponent to have deployed in. You lose first turn then just scout to a hiding spot and run the attack on your next turn which is still a viable tactic even as the rules are now, it's only on the first players first turn that you cannot assault, second player can assault whenever they have range.

For my suggestions, get rid of first blood. It's a way to help stop draws but it's a HUGE advantage for the 1st player since he just picks a unit on the board and then player 2 is playing catch up. I'd make it either a kill more or kill a certain % (probably the latter honestly) and call it something like Brutality.

Ignore the Lords of War from Escalation. This one is because they aren't balanced at all in a workable manner, for 500 points guard get a baneblade but Tau get a flier with burst cannons and a twin-linked ion gun? Eldar titans kill whole units a turn with no saves allowed but orks get a slow walker that's likely to get blown up? It's a huge source of imbalance and the only real way to work D weapons in 40k is everyone has them or nobody does and I'd much rather have them be an Apoc Only weapon style.

Let heavy vehicles shoot additional guns at regular BS even if they shot ordinance. This single rule turned the classic battle cannon Russ (cannon+sponsons) from a good tank to a wast of points. It also hurts the monolith in a similar fashion which basically turns the "Heavy" rule into a negative special rule rather than something useful. Now I'll admit I don't see a monolith or Russ zooming across a battlefield like 18" moves would justify but if they can only ever move 6" a turn then just let them shoot all their guns so they can be worthwhile again.

Grimoir of true names should only boost a Daemon save not any invul save. I'm fine with sceamer star with a 3++ re-roll 1s or a daemon engine/obliterator/warp talon with a 3++ save.

As far as Tau go riptides should probably be more expensive but with lowering costs almost everywhere else (sorry sisters!) it may be more of a wait and watch as it balances out. Already there are a LOT of units which can handily kill a riptide (grav/plasma/ANY decent assault) and they are a considerable investment for the Tau that doesn't return as much on firepower as it does on just being resilient to basic arms and mid-strength firepower.

Sniper Weapons should get precision shots on a 5+ and Look Out Sir should be a 3+/5+ for IC/Character. As it is there aren't many reasons to take a sniper over a character with a special weapon and even if you luck into a precision shot it doesn't help because your opponent just 2+ rolls it onto a terminator/grunt/riptide/whatever. To counter this sniper would have to be a class on it's own like heavy/assault/rapid-fire/salvo. Basically you'd get one shot with them but if you moved at all, even if you're relentless, you don't get precision shots. That keeps them useful against MCs and makes them better for character sniping without tau drones or Deathmarks just trolling over with 20-27 shots picking targets on 5+ to hit. Also precision shots should roll Look out Sir BEFORE wounds are rolled and then the strength and toughness are compared directly. For example, Vet Seargent tags a riptide/ethereal with a plasma shot that comes up a 6. Vet chooses the ethereal to take the hit and Tau rolls LoS. If it succeeds the plasma wounds on 3 vs the riptide's T6, if not then it wounds on 2 vs. the Ethereals T3. That way a precision bolter isn't going to bounce off the riptide it was never hitting in the first place or miraculously wound the heavy suit that interceded to begin with.

Salvo could use some work because it basically makes non-relentless foot infantry with those guns worthless because they give up so much power if they actually move to position to use them. Grav guns would be better for a tactical squad if they were 18"/12" Salvo 3/2. Make it where the guns have set stationary/movement ranges and numbers instead of a flat "you get half". This is particularly egregious for Noise Marines and would go a LONG way to helping them.

I could wishlist more (thousand sons being relentless with an aspiring sorceror, letting that same sorceror choose outside of tzeench powers) but those are the big things I see to fix the issues.

Edit: The Lychguard unit leads me to another rule I'd like to see, being able to choose your save. For Lychguard it's a matter of having to eat bolters on a 3+ save when they may want to try bouncing them back with the 4++. Another example where it'd be useful is if a unit is in area terrain (5+ cover) with a 4+ armor save where they have to re-roll successful armor but not cover. The armor save has a 75% chance of failing where cover would only be 66%. By math the cover is the better save but RAW says to take the highest save so you're stuck on the worse save.

[Requizen]

Anyone following the Tyranid leaks and pagecaps? I'm holding my judgement until I see some games with it, but have some initial thoughts. Overall I don't think it's as gloom and doom as some people are saying, with some units getting better and popular ones getting nerfed, which may or may not be warranted.

[Eldan]

Anyone following the Tyranid leaks and pagecaps? I'm holding my judgement until I see some games with it, but have some initial thoughts. Overall I don't think it's as gloom and doom as some people are saying, with some units getting better and popular ones getting nerfed, which may or may not be warranted.

Haven't seen any massive nerfs yet. Some fun ideas for biomorphs, too, though I haven't seen point costs or weapons yet. If stuff is really getting as much cheaper as some people say, it can't be that bad.

People are disagreeing over psychic powers a lot. In White Dwarf, the Tyrants have Biomancy and Telepathy powers, but appraently, there's a leaked (Spanish?) codex that says it's Tyranid powers only. And tyranid powers don't look that great. Except one that gives nearby units FnP.

Also, all regeneration is 4+. That's lovely.

[Requizen]

Haven't seen any massive nerfs yet. Some fun ideas for biomorphs, too, though I haven't seen point costs or weapons yet. If stuff is really getting as much cheaper as some people say, it can't be that bad.

People are disagreeing over psychic powers a lot. In White Dwarf, the Tyrants have Biomancy and Telepathy powers, but appraently, there's a leaked (Spanish?) codex that says it's Tyranid powers only. And tyranid powers don't look that great. Except one that gives nearby units FnP.

Also, all regeneration is 4+. That's lovely.

The Points per model have gone down pretty much across the board, aside from HQ and Hive Guard, who mostly went up (well, OOE and Deathleaper got cheaper and moved to HQ, but OOE is still pretty costly for what he is. Deathleaper is pretty cool now though imo). However, most upgrades/armory items have gotten more expensive, and the Bioartifacts are pretty underwhelming.

The White Dwarf game had Biomancy, but in the pages shown all Psykers generate powers off of their own table, shown here:

Spoiler

Show

Not a bad list, but it's no Biomancy for an army that runs MCs.

Regeneration is better, but it's an extra 10 points to field.

The things people are complaining about are:
-Removal of Armored Shell (no 2+ saves aside from Tyranofex or an Artifact)
-Removal of Doom of Malantai
-Removal of Parasite of Mortrex
-Removal of Pod
-Removal of Ymgarl Genestealers
-Tervigons require 30 Gants to be Troops now and don't confer their upgrades to spawned Gants.
-New Instinctive Behavior being significantly worse.

However, there's plenty of good things in there too, in my opinion.
-Venomthropes now give Shrouded instead of 5+ cover, meaning you can easily give 2+ cover saves in decent bubbles by fielding one or two.
-One of the Thorax Swarms (template upgrades for certain MCs) gained Haywire.
-New Hive Guard gun has Haywire (two good ways to wreck vehicle lists without needing to rely on MC Smashes)
-Lictors/Deathleaper gained Infiltrate, though they're still pretty poor overall, but you can use them for early game precision deep strike shenanigans.
-Gargoyles gained Blind from the looks of it, which is pretty cool imo.
-Spore mines got buffed nicely, though I can't find the specifics.

So it's kind of a mixed bag from the sounds of it. A lot of people are decrying that it's overall weaker, and it very well may be, but I'm not the type to decry OP/UP on first glance. That said, I don't like GW straight removing units from the codex.

[Drakenkin]

Don't forget that not only do tervigons require more termagants to unlock as a troop, but are more expensive themselves. Like, a decent amount more expensive.
I'm happy the 'fex is cheaper, but man, I don't know. And I've heard from various reaches of the internets that Cruddace is the author. -Sigh.- Cruddace'd twice in a row, if that's true.
I wouldn't mind so much as I never go to tournaments or anything, except that my gaming group has tau, necron, eldar, and ig players. I'll still see about doing a nidzilla army and see how much fun it is to play.
Oh, and the last straw for another friend who was considering picking up 'nids, according to a post on natfka it looks like genestealers now need synapse. Because they're so broken otherwise.

[Cheesegear]

As for how to fix 40K as it is now I'd agree on looking to balance the books, Hell chicken, screamer council, seer council and O'Sherra star are all too problematic in game, only compounded by GW's crazy FAQ/Errata process.

Current problems (AFAIC);

Farseers; 100 Points for 3 Mastery Levels is crazy. Especially when Guide and Prescience are guaranteed. Even in 1250, people are more than willing to pay 200 Points to Twin-Link four units per turn. All because Blessings can't be Denied. Especially problematic because Eldar units also have Rending.

Seer Councils; One of two most BS units in the game. All because Blessings can't be Denied, and Independent Characters from a different Codex can join a unit it wasn't designed to be in.

Fateweaver; He can be used even when he's not on the board. As a Flier, he's also free to leave the board whenever he chooses to, which also denies Slay the Warlord. Also 'suffers' by being a model without a flight stand...

Daemon Princes; True Line of Sight and lack of flight stands, means that a Swooping Daemon Prince can not only be LoS blocked, but, can also claim cover from Ruins, Forests and other 'ground terrain'. Which makes no sense. This is especially bad on Daemons of Nurgle who gain Shrouded. Further, FMCs can be deployed in Glide Mode, and then start Swooping immediately on Turn 1. Especially problematic when a Daemon player can field four or more Princes. In yo' face!

Screamer Council; Blessings can't be Denied and the Grimoire doesn't work as intended.

Riptides; Have the ability to take Drones, which are not 'familiars', and are actual models. This means that a Riptide does not count as a 'single model only' unit, and therefore is allowed to be joined Independent Characters, such as Ethereals, Buff Commanders, and even Eldar Farseers for some stupid reason. Speaking of Commanders...

Buff Commander; Gains the two best Powers from Divination for 30 Points. Twin-Linked and Ignores Cover. Coupled with it's ability to join a Riptide, or, join Eldar units is completely ridiculous. Eldar/Tau armies are Twin-Linking 5 units per turn - not counting those with Scatter Lasers or Jetbikes.

O'vesa; It's a Riptide. With the Independent Character rule. Allowing him to join another Riptide. RIPTIDE UNIT! Attach a Commander to the unit to give them Twin-Linked and Ignores Cover while you're at it.

Night Scythes; Cheap Fliers in the Troops slot. Brilliant.

Wave Serpents; Similar to the Night Scythe. It's a fairly strong vehicle, which is fine. But the problem is that you can get as many as you want.

Heldrake; Has 360 Line of Sight with Torrent and can Vector Strike. Way to screw it up GW.

I could wish-list about how to fix all the bad units in the game. But, frankly, by de-powering the good/exploiatative units in the game, you're in effect, bringing the bad units up to parity.

I would argue long and hard about consolidation into close combat or assaulting off deepstrike because it is HUGELY punishing for some armies.

Frankly, I'm glad it's gone.

Sniper Weapons should get precision shots on a 5+ and Look Out Sir should be a 3+/5+ for IC/Character. As it is there aren't many reasons to take a sniper over a character with a special weapon and even if you luck into a precision shot it doesn't help because your opponent just 2+ rolls it onto a terminator/grunt/riptide/whatever.

The running joke is that Barrage is more accurate than Sniper. Not just more powerful.

[Eldan]

That must be a house rule we never even realized... the way we handled it, no one ever used Look Out, Sir! against sniper shots. It seems the entire shop just assumed that you couldn't do that.

[Tychris1]

A question from a friend, do Strength D melee attacks inflict their wounds on the whole squad? For instance, a Lord of Skulls hits and wounds with strength D, rolling 3 wounds each time for his Strength D, then are 12 models with 1 wound each removed, or are 4 models removed that soak 2 extra wounds each?