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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default [3.5] Knight Champion - Fighter/Knight/Samurai/Paladin fix

    On another thread people were arguing about how to fix the Knight, Fighter, Samurai, and Paladin. There are a million homebrew solutions out there already. But a common solution is to just combine the classes, which is what this homebrew class does. I also threw in some other flavorful stuff that I thought rounded out the class.

    The Knight Champion

    Public domain artwork by Viktor Vasnetsov

    {table=head]Level| BAB| Fort| Ref| Will| Special
    1st | + 1 | + 2 | + 0 | + 2 | Challenge, Honor
    2nd | + 2 | + 3 | + 0 | + 3 | Challenge
    3rd | + 3 | + 3 | + 1 | + 3 | Honor
    4th | + 4 | + 4 | + 1 | + 4 | Challenge
    5th | + 5 | + 4 | + 1 | + 4 | Honor
    6th | + 6 | + 5 | + 2 | + 5 | Challenge
    7th | + 7 | + 5 | + 2 | + 5 | Honor
    8th | + 8 | + 6 | + 2 | + 6 | Challenge
    9th | + 9 | + 6 | + 3 | + 6 | Honor
    10th | + 10 | + 7 | + 3 | + 7 | Challenge
    11th | + 11 | + 7 | + 3 | + 7 | Honor
    12th | + 12 | + 8 | + 4 | + 8 | Challenge
    13th | + 13 | + 8 | + 4 | + 8 | Honor
    14th | + 14 | + 9 | + 4 | + 9 | Challenge
    15th | + 15 | + 9 | + 5 | + 9 | Honor
    16th | + 16 | + 10 | + 5 | + 10 | Challenge
    17th | + 17 | + 10 | + 5 | + 10 | Honor
    18th | + 18 | + 11 | + 6 | + 11 | Challenge
    19th | + 19 | + 11 | + 6 | + 11 | Honor
    20th | + 20 | + 12 | + 6 | + 12 | Challenge
    [/table]
    Hit Dice: d12

    A knight champion's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (n/a), Swim (Str).

    Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4.

    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

    Starting Gold: 12d4x10 gp (300 gp).

    All of the following are knight champion class abilities:

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Knight champions are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, heavy, medium, and light armor, and all shields (including tower shields).

    Honor (Ex): At first level and every odd level thereafter, the Knight Champion gains one of the following class abilities of his choice. Some Honor abilities have a minimum knight champion level noted in their description, and you must meet that minimum knight champion level requirement before choosing them.


    Ancestral Relic: You gain the Ancestral Relic Feat (Book of Exalted Deeds), even if you do not otherwise qualify for this feat. (This feat allows you to sacrifice gold, magic items, or other treasure to enchant and improve the enchantments on a single item). In addition to it's normal uses, if your ancestral relic is a double weapon (such as a quarterstaff, dire flail, two bladed sword, etc) any enchantment placed on the weapon applies to both ends of the weapon - you do not and can not enchant each side separately.

    Armor Mastery (Minimum 11th level): You gain proficiency with all exotic, dwarvern, and all other racially specific armor and shields that a creature of your type, subtype, and size is normally capable of using. If you have previously taken one or more Feats to gain proficiency with an armor or shield, you may retrain them, taking new Feats that you qualify for in their place. (See Races of Stone for exotic/dwarvern armors and shields).

    Armor Training: Your are not effected by the speed reduction and may ignore the armor check penalty to all Climb, Jump, and Swim checks you make for any armor or shield that you are proficient with.

    Aura of Courage: You become immune to fear effects (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 60 feet of you gains a morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects equal to the knight champion's Charisma bonus. This ability functions while the knight champion is conscious, but not if he is unconscious or dead.

    Aura of Resolve (minimum 3rd level): You become immune to compulsion effects. Each ally within 60 feet of you gains a morale bonus on saving throws against compulsion effects equal to the knight champion's Charisma bonus. This ability functions while the knight champion is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead.

    Aura of Despair (minimum 3rd level): Enemies within 10 feet of you take a -2 penalty on all Saving Throws and opposed checks. This ability functions while the knight champion is conscious, but not if he is unconscious or dead.

    Aura of Health: You become immune to all poisons and disease (magical and mundane). Each ally within 60 feet of you gains a morale bonus on saving throws against poison and disease equal to the knight champion's Charisma bonus. This ability functions while the knight champion is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead.

    Aura of Life (minimum 13th level): You become immune to death effects and negative energy. Each ally within 60 feet of you gains a morale bonus on saving throws against death and negative energy effects equal to the knight champion's Charisma bonus. This ability functions while the knight champion is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead. You may not take this ability if you are undead or are otherwise healed by negative energy.

    Bonus Feat: You gain a bonus feat of your choice. You must otherwise qualify for this feat. You may select this Honor multiple times, choosing a different bonus feat each time. In addition, each time you gain a knight champion class level, you may choose to replace any knight champion bonus feat that you have previously selected with this Honor ability with a different bonus feat that you qualify for. In effect, the knight champion loses the previously selected bonus feat in exchange for the new one. The old feat cannot be one that is currently being used as a prerequisite for any other feat, prestige class, or other ability the knight champion currently possess.

    Bulwark of Defense (minimum 3rd level): As per the knight ability.

    Cavalier (minimum 7th level): You may take 10 on all Ride and Handle Animal Skill checks, even when threatened or rushed. If you are riding your Special Mount or Animal Companion, it gains the Pounce Ability.

    Combat Expertise: You gain Combat Expertise Feat, even if you do not otherwise qualify for it, and the maximum to-hit penalty taken and AC bonus gained is equal to your base attack bonus. (Not -5/+5 and your base attack bonus).

    Courtly Knowledge (minimum 7th level): You gain the Skill Focus (Knowledge: nobility and royalty) and Skill Focus (Knowledge: religion) Feats. If you already possess or later gain either of these Feats from another source, you may choose another Feat that you qualify for in place of the Feat(s) you already possess. In addition, you add 1/2 your knight champion class level as a competence bonus to all Knowledge (nobility and royalty) and Knowledge (religion) checks, as well as all Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, and Sense Motive checks when interacting with members of a nobility, royalty, church hierarchy, religious order, knight order, any similar groups designated by the DM, or anyone who is under the direct command of such groups (such as servants, slaves, law enforcement, guards, bureaucrats, etc).

    Damage Reduction (minimum 9th level): You gain damage reduction X/-, where X is equal to 1/3 your knight champion class level. This damage reduction stacks with damage reduction of the same type provided by other sources, such as adamantine armor or the Barbarian class ability.

    Die Hard: You gain the Endurance and Die Hard Feats.

    Divine Grace (minimum 3rd level): You gain a bonus equal to your Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws. This bonus does not stack with the divine grace, dark blessing, or any similar class feature from any other class or prestige class.

    Improved Critical (minimum 5th level): You gain the Improved Critical Feat. However, instead of applying to a single weapon, it applies to all weapons you wield.

    Mettle (minimum 3rd level): If you make a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), you instead completely negate the effect.

    Mental Fortress (minimum 17th level): You become immune to all harmful mind-affecting effects and morale effects. You may still benefit from helpful ones if you choose.

    Pounce (minimum 7th level): You gain the Pounce ability.

    Resilient (minimum 17th level): You gain immunity to being Stunned, immunity to all critical hits (and thus also all Precision Damage - Sneak Attack, Sudden Strike, and Skirmish), and you not at risk of death from massive damage.

    Special Mount (minimum 5th level): You gain a Special Mount (as per the paladin class ability) or Animal Companion (as per the druid class ability), using the knight champion's level as your effective paladin or druid level. Your knight champion class levels stack with any class or prestige class that provides a Special Mount or Animal Companion (but not both) for the purposes of determining it's abilities.

    Talisman of Faith (minimum 5th level): The knight champion may spend 1 hour praying over an item in their possession that has some religious or personal significance, such as a holy symbol, ring, or other similar keepsake. From that point forward, the item is designated as their Talisman of Faith. Any creature in possession of the designated Talisman may attempt to magically summon the knight champion to their side once per day as an Immediate Action. When the attempt is made, the knight champion becomes aware of the true identity of who is attempting to summon them (disguises or magical protections do not obscure it), and a basic description of their current circumstance (trapped in prison, under attack, praying for help, etc). If the knight champion agrees to answer the summons, they are immediately teleported to an unoccupied space of their choice within 5 feet of the creature that summoned them. If no unoccupied space exists or the knight champion refuses the summons, the attempt fails and is wasted for that day.

    In addition, the knight champion is always intuitively aware of the general direction and how far away their Talisman of Faith is. Therefore, even if they cannot or choose not to answer a summons (or the person they give it to is separated from it), they can always track the Talisman down to it's location. The knight champion may repeat the process of creating a Talisman of Faith as often as they like, but they may not have more then one Talisman of Faith in existence at any given time. If they designate a new object as their Talisman, the previously selected one loses it's Talisman abilities.

    True Believer: You gain the True Believer Feat. You must qualify for the Feat (ie, you must choose a deity or DM approved alternative that you believe in, and be within one step of that god's alignment). In addition, you gain the cleric's Aura ability, as if you were a cleric equal to your knight champion level. Finally, you may cast Detect Good, Detect Evil, Detect Law, or Detect Chaos at will as a spell-like ability, with a caster level equal to your knight champion level.

    True Seeing (minimum 17th level): You gain True Seeing, as per the spell, except as a continuous extraordinary effect.

    Two Weapon Fighting: You gain the Two Weapon Fighting Feat, even if you do not otherwise qualify for it. In addition, any other Feat which requires Two Weapon Fighting no longer has a minimum Dexterity score as a prerequisite for you.

    Vigilant Defender (minimum 5th level): As per the Knight ability.

    Uncanny Dodge: (minimum 3rd level): As per the rogue class ability. If you already have or later gain Uncanny Dodge from another source, you instead gain Improved Uncanny Dodge, and your knight champion levels count as rogue levels for determining who can flank you.

    Warlord (minimum 15th level): You have achieved great notoriety. If you have an NPC patron or master, he will grant you a noble title befitting your station (within the boundaries of his authority and ability to do so), and is likely to assign you to a position of authority and responsibility within his domain, such as a fiefdom, castle, keep, or military school.

    If the knight champion serves a deity, that deity's church will also grant the knight champion a high level position of authority and responsibility, which may include a specific religious title or honorifics, and domain over church property, such as a church, monastery, or holy site. The deity is also likely to take a more personal interest in the knight champion, and may contact the knight champion directly or through intermediaries to make the deity's wishes known.

    Other nobility, members of your religion, and knight champions revere you, and will generally treat you with respect and (if you are of higher position then them) polite deference, even if they are of another alignment or have opposing goals.

    In addition, the knight champion gains the right to petition other nobility, members of similarly aligned religious organizations, and knight champions for guest rights (safe shelter) and assistance on adventures or in the fulfillment of his master's or deity's goals. As long as a knight champion's requests do not violate their own oaths of service or alignment of those they petition, the petitioned have a responsibility to assist the knight champion in a reasonable manor (providing a place to sleep, food, honest answers to questions, access to their libraries, or other minor resources for a reasonable period of time) and protect them as long as they stay within their domain. Refusing to do so is considered a grave insult, which will reflect poorly on the petitioned within their hierarchy and peer groups. Allowing a knight champion to be harmed within your home after you have granted him guest rights is considered to be a betrayal to all nobility and similarly aligned religious organizations, and is likely to incur the disdain, anger, and potentially revenge from of all knight champions who hear of it.

    Weapon Master (minimum 11th level): You gain proficiency with all exotic weapons, and do not take any penalty to-hit when using an improved weapon that is appropriate for a creature of your size. If you have previously taken one or more Feats to gain proficiency with an exotic or improvised weapon, you may retrain them, taking new Feats that you qualify for in their place.

    Weapon Versatility: You gain the Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization Feats. Instead of applying to one weapon, they instead apply to all weapons that you wield. If a Feat you possess requires Weapon Focus or Weapon Specialization as a prerequisite (such as Greater Weapon Focus, Power Critical, Weapon Mastery, etc), those feats likewise apply to all weapons you wield. In addition, you qualify for feats that usually require a minimum number of fighter levels (such as Weapon Specialization) as if you had a fighter level equal to your knight champion level, and your knight champion levels stack with fighter (or other equivalent fighter levels) for this purpose.


    Challenge: Once per day after 8 hours of rest or meditation, the Knight Champion may choose one of the Challenge abilities from the list below. At every even knight champion level thereafter, you may choose one additional ability from this list. Some Challenge abilities have a minimum knight champion level noted in their description, and you must meet that minimum knight champion level requirement before choosing them. The chosen Challenge abilities may then be used until the knight champion chooses a new set of Challenge abilities, at which point they are replaced by the newly selected ones.

    You can use any Challenge ability that you have chosen a number of times per day equal to your knight champion class level + 3. Every Challenge ability requires a Challenge use to activate, and all of the different abilities draw upon the same pool of Challenge uses. For example, a 6th level knight champion could choose 4 different Challenge abilities that he qualifies for, and he may use any combination of those abilities a total of 9 times per day (6 + 3).

    Unless otherwise noted, a Challenge ability is a Swift Action to activate. If a Challenge allows a Saving Throw, the Save DC is 10 + 1/2 your knight champion class level + your Charisma bonus. Unless otherwise noted, the Challenge ability granted is an extraordinary ability. For the purpose of any Challenge ability that duplicates a spell, your caster level is equal to your knight champion level, and your primary casting attribute is Charisma.


    Action Surge (minimum 18th level): During your first turn of any combat, you may activate this ability (a Swift Action) to take take an extra Standard Action, in addition to your normal actions for this turn.

    Active Defense: While wielding a shield (physically holding it and using it in one or more of your hands) you may add your Charisma bonus to your Shield AC bonus for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma bonus.

    Aggressive Parry (Minimum 16th level): Whenever an enemy you threaten makes a melee attack against you (including any effect which includes a melee attack and special attacks, such as Bull Rush, Disarm, Grapple, Overrun, Swallow Whole, Sunder, Trip, melee touch attacks as part of a spell or other effect, etc), as an Immediate Action you may make a melee attack (which can be a special attack, such as a Trip, Grapple, Disarm, etc) against that enemy, which occurs immediately before their attack. If your attack is successful, then in addition to it's normal effects, your enemy's attack automatically fails and is wasted. You may only use this ability after it is determined that your enemy has hit you with an attack and the type of attack they are using (standard melee, spell, Bull Rush, Trip, etc) but before results (damage or other effects) are determined.

    Bastion of Resilience (minimum 14th level) (Su): While wielding a shield (physically holding it and using it in one or more of your hands), as an immediate action you may activate this ability to create a magical sphere of protection equivalent to a resilient sphere. The sphere has a radius of 5 feet centered around your square, and thus encapsulates you and any adjacent creatures within 5 feet. You cannot activate this ability if there are any enemies adjacent to you, nor can you use it if any creature's body is crossing between a space that would be separated by the sphere. The protective sphere lasts until the start of your next turn, essentially preventing almost all attacks, movement, and other and effects from reaching you and adjacent allies until that time. If this ability was activated in response to an attack, that attack has no effect on creatures within the protective sphere (unless it is from a rod of cancellation, a rod of negation, a disintegrate spell, or a successful targeted dispel magic spell, which destroy the sphere).

    Call to Battle (minimum 12th level): You can grant yourself and all allies within 60 ft a second saving throw against any one ongoing effect which they previously failed a saving throw against. For example, Lidda fails her save against a lich's Fear spell. On his next turn, Sir Agrivail uses his call to battle ability to grant Lidda another save. If she succeeds, she immediately shrugs off the remaining effect of the Fear spell. If she fails, it continues normally. This ability has no effect on instantaneous effects and does not heal previously incurred damage.

    Cure Ailment (minimum 6th level) (Su): As a Standard Action, you may remove the effects of all poisons and diseases effecting yourself or one adjacent creature. Using Cure Ailment also removes any Sickened or Nauseated effect from your target, and any ability damage (temporary or permanent) or other effects directly caused by the poison or disease is also healed.

    Banish (minimum 14th level) (Su): All extradimensional creatures within 60 feet must make a Will Save. Failure means that they immediately return to their home plane of existence, and cannot return for 24 hours.

    Daunting Challenge (minimum 10th level): Enemies within 60 ft must make a Will save or become frightened for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma bonus. If the creature is already shaken or frightened, they instead become panicked. Whether a creature fails or succeeds on its save against your daunting challenge, it can only be targeted by this effect once every 24 hours. Targets of this ability must have an Intelligence of 5 or higher, and have a language of some sort. Targets that do not meet these requirements are not effected by this ability. This is a mind affecting fear effect.

    Dungeoncrasher (minimum 6th level): If you successfully Bull Rush an enemy and move them at least 10 feet so that they are adjacent to a wall (your DM may also allow similarly large solid barriers, such as a large tree, stone column, or similar structure), you may activate this ability to smash them into the wall and deal an extra 8d6 + (your Strength bonus * 3) damage to that enemy.

    Fighting Challenge: You can issue a challenge against a single opponent. The target of this ability must have an Intelligence of 5 or higher, have a language of some sort. If it does not meet these requirements, the use of this ability is expended without effect. If the target does meet the conditions given above, you gain a Morale bonus equal to your Charisma bonus on all opposed checks (such as Trip, Disarm, Bull Rush, Grapple, Sunder, opposed Skill checks, etc) against that target for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma bonus. Morale bonuses from multiple sources do not stack. You can use this ability more than once in a single encounter. If your first chosen foe is defeated or flees the area, you can issue a new challenge to a different foe. You cannot switch foes if your original target is still active. This is a mind affecting fear effect.

    Follow Up (minimum 12th level): Until the start of your next turn, every time you successfully hit and damage enemy with a melee attack, you may immediately take a a 5-foot step. This movement does not trigger an attack of opportunity. This movement does not count towards your normal movement allowance. Thus you may take your normal 5-foot step, move action, or charge action during your turn in addition to using this ability. You may not use this ability while Prone, Grappled, or Immobilized, and you may not use this ability to move into difficult terrain.

    Grant Move Action (minimum 4th level): As a Standard Action, you may grant a Move Action to all allies (but not yourself) within 60 feet. Each of the affected allies takes this extra move action immediately, acting in their current initiative order. This extra action does not affect the allies' initiative count - the round continues normally after the knight champions' turn is over.

    Loyal Beyond Death (Minimum 20th level). As per the knight ability.

    Pin Down: Whenever an enemy you threaten takes a 5-foot step or uses the withdraw action, as an Immediate Action you may make a melee attack (which can be a special attack, such as a Trip, Grapple, Disarm, etc) against that enemy, which occurs immediately before their movement. If your attack prevents them from moving away from you (for example, you knock them Prone or succeed in Grappling them), their action fails and is wasted.

    Shield Ally: In response to an attack made against an adjacent ally, as an immediate action you may exchange spaces with that ally. You move into his space, and he moves into your previously occupied space. You become the target of the attack, taking all of it's effects if it successfully hits you. You must declare the use of this ability after an attack is declared but before it's effects are known. You cannot wait to see if it successfully hits, deals damage, what effects it might have, etc.

    Smite Opposition: You may add your Charisma bonus to the next attack roll that you make, and add your knight champion class level as a bonus to damage on that attack. If this attack misses, the Smite Opposition use is wasted. Smite Opposition may be used in place of any other form of Smite (such as Smite Evil or Smite Good) for any Feat, prestige class, or other ability which requires it.

    Test of Mettle (minimum 4th level): As per the Knight class ability.

    Tower Defense: While wielding a tower shield (physically holding it and using it in one or more of your hands) as an immediate action you may activate and use this ability, and until the start of your next turn all ranged attacks (including ray spells and other ranged touch attacks) have a 50% miss chance. If you have a miss chance from another source (such as concealment, a spell, or other effect) only apply the highest miss chance. (This miss chance does not stack with any other miss chance, and you don't roll for this miss chance and another miss chance against the same attack).

    Touch of Divinity (minimum 4th level) (Sp): At the time you select this Challenge, you may choose a single divine spell from any base class list, with a spell level no higher then 1/3 your knight champion class level. For example, an 6th level knight champion could choose a 0th, 1st, or 2nd level divine spell. You may not choose a spell with a costly material component (over 1gp), any experience point cost, or a casting time longer then a Standard Action. You may not choose a spell with an alignment descriptor unless you share that component of your alignment. For example, only Good knight champion can select and cast a spell with the Good descriptor in it's spell description.

    You may then cast a selected spell as a spell-like ability by expending a Challenge use. This is normally a Standard Action, but if the spell is normally cast as a Swift or Immediate Action, then activating the spell-like ability is also the same type of action. You may select this Challenge more then once. Each time you select it, choose a different divine spell you qualify for.

    Turn or Rebuke Undead (minimum 4th level) (Su): As a Standard Action, you may turn or rebuke undead as a cleric of your knight champion level. A good knight champion (or a neutral one who worships a good deity) can turn or destroy undead creatures. An evil knight champion (or a neutral one who worships an evil deity) instead rebukes or commands such creatures. A neutral knight champion must choose whether his turning ability functions as that of a good cleric or an evil cleric. Once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed. In addition, you may expend knight champion Challenge uses to fuel any divine or domain feat which requires tun or rebuke undead uses to activate.

    Vigor: You gain Fast Healing equal to 1/2 your knight champion class level (minimum 1), for a number of rounds equal to your Constitution bonus.

    Whirlwind Strike (minimum 8th level): As a Standard Action, you may make a single attack against all enemies within your reach. Make a single attack roll, compare it to the AC of each enemy within your reach, and then determine the results for each enemy separately (such as damage, opposed checks, and/or saving throws). If any of your attacks trigger additional attacks or actions (such as Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Trip, Knock-Down, Knockback, etc) you may take them as normal.


    Adaptation: The Knight Champion and Prestige Classes: The knight champion's Touch of Divinity class feature grants them the ability to cast divine spells. Thus, it can be used to satisfy the prerequisite of any prestige class which requires "the ability to cast X spells" - assuming that the Knight Champion is capable of casting spells of the appropriate level or type. If a prestige class progresses divine spellcasting ability and the player designates it as the spellcasting class being progressed (you may only have one for most prestige classes), then it also progress the knight champion's Challenge ability (including number of Challenges known, uses per day, Save DC, and effective knight champion class level for the purpose of selecting and using Challenges). However, it does not progress any other aspect of the the knight champion class, such as Honor abilities, base attack bonus, Skills, hit dice, or Saving Throw bonuses.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Knight Champion

    I like it. I thought the lawful requirement for knights was good, but you obviously can't include that in a class design to fix the fighter as well. I like how you can focus on building one of them if you like, and if you build a samurai you won't be weaker than the others. I guess if you like this and still want to be a divine paladin you can get a separate casting prestige class. Overall, I think it is a nice solution, and it doesn't feel like it is a fighter and fighter variants.

    Edit: I also like that the only really power thing it can so that the other classes might have trouble with is prestige class qualification, and it doesn't even qualify for anything broken, so pretty good overall.
    Last edited by NeoPhoenix0; 2013-09-19 at 08:23 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Knight Champion

    Today must be the day for posting Fighter revisions using that picture.

    Awkward.

    Looks interesting. I'll give it a full read later.
    "We have sent many to Hell, to smooth our way," said I, "and we are standing yet and holding blades. What more?"

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    Default Re: [3.5] Knight Champion

    Very nice, although I would separate the paladin from the other classes. The way the class is built though, you can do that, which is nice.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Knight Champion

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoPhoenix0 View Post
    I like it. I thought the lawful requirement for knights was good, but you obviously can't include that in a class design to fix the fighter as well. I like how you can focus on building one of them if you like, and if you build a samurai you won't be weaker than the others. I guess if you like this and still want to be a divine paladin you can get a separate casting prestige class. Overall, I think it is a nice solution, and it doesn't feel like it is a fighter and fighter variants.

    Edit: I also like that the only really power thing it can so that the other classes might have trouble with is prestige class qualification, and it doesn't even qualify for anything broken, so pretty good overall.
    Hmmm. Good point. OK, I've added some language at the end to hopefully fix the PrC problem. But then of course, you run into the opposite problem, where people take at most 5 levels of a class, and then almost always head into a prestige class or two. Hopefully the Honor and basic chassis (full BAB, 2 strong saves, decent skills) benefits are good enough that this is balanced out.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Knight Champion

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    Hmmm. Good point. OK, I've added some language at the end to hopefully fix the PrC problem. But then of course, you run into the opposite problem, where people take at most 5 levels of a class, and then almost always head into a prestige class or two. Hopefully the Honor and basic chassis (full BAB, 2 strong saves, decent skills) benefits are good enough that this is balanced out.
    I don't see a problem with it at the moment. If they want to make a more spellcasty paladin they are going to have to prestige class out into a spellcasty prestige class, but they get to make up their own decent paladin base in the mean time. If they stick to the class they can take some of the more powerful melee options. It presents a choice that prestige classes are supposed to, so it is already better than the original classes there. Optimizers are already most likely going for spellcasters anyway so you don't really have to worry about them.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Knight Champion - Fighter/Knight/Samurai/Paladin fix

    This is really nice.
    I like the customization.
    From what I could figure from this class, most is fine, but there are some things I'd change.
    1. Good Fort seems more appropriate than good Ref.
    2. To avoid forcing mental acrobatics and mechanics resolving on both player & DM, I'd place Bonus Feat in the Challenge list rather than the Honor list.
    3. Pounce is meaningless at 5th level, unless you happen to have TWF, so it seems like you should change it to 7th.
    4. One thing missing here is something that addresses action economy. You could give it something for that at levels 7, 13 & 19.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Knight Champion - Fighter/Knight/Samurai/Paladin fix

    The abilities seem in line with other Tier 3 melee characters except for Touch of Divinity and Turn Undead. A high level Knight Champion can bump up to Tier 2 by choosing Miracle which is cast as a SLA and thus doesn't cost XP.

    Divine Metamagic Persist is pretty easy also given the high number of turning attempts they'll have. Their limited number of spells known will probably balance that out though (can't persist dozens of spells because he likely only knows a few).
    "We have sent many to Hell, to smooth our way," said I, "and we are standing yet and holding blades. What more?"

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    Default Re: [3.5] Knight Champion - Fighter/Knight/Samurai/Paladin fix

    I've made some changes/additions made based on feedback and new ideas I've had:
    • Strong Saves changed to Fort/Will. The original Strong Ref/Will was a formatting error in the chart.

    • Touch of Divinity ability has it's prereq lowered to 4th level, giving you access to spells earlier. But they are spell-like abilities, and thus can't be effected by Metamagic Feats like Divine Metamagic. (Though you could always take Monster/Warlock-ish Feats like Quicken Spell-Like Ability. But in general, they're much weaker and less flexible). Also, your maximum spell-like is still only 1/3 your knight champion class level. So at best, you're getting access to 6th level spells at knight champion level 18+. I've also made it so that you can't choose spells with a xp or expensive gp cost. So while you're magic options are super flexible, players hopefully won't be breaking the game with it, and the class doesn't need to choose any magical options to be useful.

    • Moved Pounce pre-req to 7th level.

    • Added a bunch of new abilities. This includes stuff which improve your action economy and controls/screws your enemy's action economy.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Knight Champion - Fighter/Knight/Samurai/Paladin fix

    Well. Looks like I forgot how basic math works.

    Ignore the comment about Miracle access.
    "We have sent many to Hell, to smooth our way," said I, "and we are standing yet and holding blades. What more?"

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    Default Re: [3.5] Knight Champion - Fighter/Knight/Samurai/Paladin fix

    I love the modularity of this class and almost perfectly recreates fantasy's idea of the noble knight. Though have you thought about adding Marshal Auras?
    Last edited by Amnoriath; 2013-09-25 at 12:37 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Knight Champion - Fighter/Knight/Samurai/Paladin fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    I love the modularity of this class and almost perfectly recreates fantasy's idea of the noble knight. Though have you thought about adding Marshal Auras?
    Actually, this class offers a wide variety of options to take on the battlefield commander role (Call to Battle immediately pops to mind).

    I may very well leech some of them for my Warrior's Warcraft list.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Knight Champion - Fighter/Knight/Samurai/Paladin fix

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Actually, this class offers a wide variety of options to take on the battlefield commander role (Call to Battle immediately pops to mind).

    I may very well leech some of them for my Warrior's Warcraft list.
    It has a couple, but I thought adding Marshal Aura's would help make that option more feasible since that class could easily be associated with the mix he mentions.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Knight Champion - Fighter/Knight/Samurai/Paladin fix

    It wouldn't break the class in any way to add Marshal auras, and I'll probably add some variant of it to the class. But in general, I dislike most passive Aura mechanics.

    Auras bonuses are either too small to be meaningful (such as every Dragonfire Adept Aura and Marshal Major Auras), or are so large that having them "always on" ends up fundamentally screwing with the game math (for example, the Marshal's Motivate Strength or Motivate Dexterity).

    I generally prefer "active" bonuses, where the player must actually spend some sort of action or resource, and in exchange they get something meaningful but temporary.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Knight Champion - Fighter/Knight/Samurai/Paladin fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    It wouldn't break the class in any way to add Marshal auras, and I'll probably add some variant of it to the class. But in general, I dislike most passive Aura mechanics.

    Auras bonuses are either too small to be meaningful (such as every Dragonfire Adept Aura and Marshal Major Auras), or are so large that having them "always on" ends up fundamentally screwing with the game math (for example, the Marshal's Motivate Strength or Motivate Dexterity).

    I generally prefer "active" bonuses, where the player must actually spend some sort of action or resource, and in exchange they get something meaningful but temporary.
    Fair enough, I think you meant the Dragon Shaman.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Knight Champion - Fighter/Knight/Samurai/Paladin fix

    I like it. Simple, elegant, and versatile. Grade-A work.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    2. To avoid forcing mental acrobatics and mechanics resolving on both player & DM, I'd place Bonus Feat in the Challenge list rather than the Honor list.
    To be honest, I like them more in the Challenge list. Having a handful of floating fighter bonus feats would be a nice versatile option, and the fact that they can only be changed in the morning minimizes in-game complexity. That, or just grant a handful of bonus feats outside the existing framework. It'll make the table a bit less pretty, but martial types tend to need the bonus feats anyway.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Knight Champion - Fighter/Knight/Samurai/Paladin fix

    So I'm reluctant to move Bonus Feats to the Challenge list, because using any Challenge requires a Challenge use (similar to Bardic Music uses). Feats are continuous. With a few exceptions (like Whirlwind Attack) I'm not sure how they could be used with the Challenge mechanic. And I don't want to screw with the mechanic or carve out exceptions to it, because I like how elegant and simple it is.

    Also, because Challenges can be changed every morning, it's likely that a player will load up on the most powerful Challenge options available to them at that level. (Similar to the way Binder vestiges work). Once you hit level 4-10ish+ it's unlikely that a player would ever choose a Feat in place of something as strong as Test of Mettle, Whirlwind Strike, Daunting Challenge, 3rd level spontaneous divine spells, etc. Thus the bonus Feat basically becomes a trap option for anything but a low level character.

    Having said that, there's no reason that Bonus Feats can't be more useful and flexible. I've added some crunch to the Bonus Feat option, which lets you swap it out every time you gain a level.

    I've also tweaked the Aura's to make them a bit more potent and Marshal-ish (adds Cha bonus instead of flat bonus, made immunity to health and poison come with an aura), and will add more "active" aura-ish leader abilities to add as Challenges soon.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Knight Champion - Fighter/Knight/Samurai/Paladin fix

    This is one of the most elegant and well thought-out pieces of homebrew I have ever seen. It's also the only fix for the samurai or knight that I've ever really felt satisfied with.

    Might it be interesting to have a challenge similar to "touch of divinity" that grants access to martial maneuvers? It would step on the Crusader's toes, but the per-day nature of challenges means it probably would't be to intrusive on the Crusader's shtick.
    Last edited by Blueiji; 2013-10-29 at 12:39 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Knight Champion - Fighter/Knight/Samurai/Paladin fix

    Does Weapon Versatility include Improved Critical, the feat? (and possibly applied to all weapons?)

    It looks like it should, but it doesn't explicitly, as it doesn't rely on weapon focus.
    Last edited by Angelalex242; 2013-10-29 at 02:32 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Knight Champion - Fighter/Knight/Samurai/Paladin fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelalex242 View Post
    Does Weapon Versatility include Improved Critical, the feat? (and possibly applied to all weapons?)

    It looks like it should, but it doesn't explicitly, as it doesn't rely on weapon focus.
    No, because Improved Critical doesn't require Weapon Focus or Specialization. But that's just a quirk in the rules - Improved Critical doesn't require Weapon Focus or Specialization, but I don't want to make Weapon Versatility universal to all Feats, because then taking Boomerang Daze lets you Daze with any weapon, taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency makes you proficient with every weapon, etc.

    So I've added an Improved Critical Honor that applies to all weapons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blueiji View Post
    This is one of the most elegant and well thought-out pieces of homebrew I have ever seen. It's also the only fix for the samurai or knight that I've ever really felt satisfied with.

    Might it be interesting to have a challenge similar to "touch of divinity" that grants access to martial maneuvers? It would step on the Crusader's toes, but the per-day nature of challenges means it probably would't be to intrusive on the Crusader's shtick.
    Hmmm. I'll consider it. But I want to avoid grafting too many other classes onto it. Otherwise, there might not be a reason to play a Crusader/Warblade/Swordsage, which are otherwise well balanced Tier 3 classes.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Knight Champion - Fighter/Knight/Samurai/Paladin fix

    If I were playing this class I would certainly want access to an Extra Challenge feat.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Knight Champion - Fighter/Knight/Samurai/Paladin fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Haldir View Post
    If I were playing this class I would certainly want access to an Extra Challenge feat.
    Though, probably have it spaced out so its not ALL of your feats, (like Font of Inspiration for Factotum). Maybe minimum level 6 and can only take it up to 2-3 times?

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