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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WaylanderX's Avatar

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    Default Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    Hello Playground,

    Last couple of weeks I've been looking for a good Dragon Rider Prc, but was unable to find any good ones with flavourfull abilities to use in a homebrew campain I am in at the moment. However, after some time I decided to build my own and this is the result. I hope you guys find this an interesting take on the Dragon Rider archetype.

    Thank you in advance if you're willing to PEACH,

    Way



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    My dragon and I are worth an entire army. Do you think you can compete with us?

    ENTRY REQUIREMENTS

    BAB: +7
    Skills: Ride 11 ranks, Diplomacy 13 ranks
    Feats: Mounted Combat, Spirited Charge, Dragonfriend OR Dragonthrall
    Maneuvers: 4 maneuvers known, including at least 1 Twin Spirit or White Raven maneuver of level 4 or higher OR have access to a special mount of some sorts (paladin and druid count as having a special mount)*
    Special: Must be able to speak Draconic

    *When going into this Prc through the special mount path, the character does not gain any benefits of the maneuver related class features or progression. If the character later gains access to level 4 maneuvers of Twin Spirit or White Raven, the character gains the class features retroactively together with the stance and manoever progressions.

    Class Skills: Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Listen, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Arcana), Ride, Spot.

    Skills Points at Each Level: 2+int modifier

    Hitdice: d10

    Dragon Rider

    Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Maneuvers readied Maneuvers known Stances known
    1st
    +1
    +2
    +2
    +0
    Dragon Bond
    0
    0
    0
    2nd
    +2
    +3
    +3
    +0
    Share Boost
    1
    0
    0
    3rd
    +3
    +3
    +3
    +1
    Dragon Rush
    0
    1
    1
    4th
    +4
    +4
    +4
    +1
    Wyvern Lord Stance
    0
    0
    0
    5th
    +5
    +4
    +4
    +1
    Teamwork
    0
    1
    0
    6th
    +6
    +5
    +5
    +2
    Retributive Aura
    0
    0
    0
    7th
    +7
    +5
    +5
    +2
    Two Determined Souls
    1
    1
    0
    8th
    +8
    +6
    +6
    +2
    Imbued Lance
    0
    0
    1
    9th
    +9
    +6
    +6
    +3
    Dragon King Stance
    0
    1
    0
    10th
    +10
    +7
    +7
    +3
    Two as one
    0
    0
    0

    Martial Maneuvers (Ex): Dragonrider levels count fully for the purpose of initiator level. You gain new maneuvers readied and known and new stances known based on the table above. The schools you can choose from are the same of those of the base class you belonged to before this prestige class. If you have multiple initiator classes before taking level in this prestige class, you can only choose 1 class from which you can choose your maneuvers.

    Dragon Bond (Ex): At your first level taking this prestige class, you gain your own draconic mount. This mount function just as a mount chosen from the Draconic Cohort feat, with the following changes:
    You take a penalty to Handle Animal and Ride when dealing with other creatures other than dragons equal to your level in this prestige class. Also, you cannot cast any arcane spells while you ride your dragon mount. You can dismiss and call your dragon as a full round action. There has to be enough room for your dragon to stand without squeezing.
    Calling your dragon is a supernatural ability. If you are eligible for a new dragon mount, you can meditate for 24 hours and pay 1000gp to switch your mount.

    The species of dragon you choose must be within 1 alignment steps from your own on both the moral and ethical axes. Your mount in question is automatically of your alignment, no matter what kind of dragon you take. Remember, although this mount is loyal to you, it is still an intelligent being with a will of its own, it can try to give you advice or try to persuade you not to take an action it perceives as unwise.

    Share Boost (Ex): You and your dragon can work together as a team, and so you learned to share your focus with your dragon. At level 2, whenever you use a martial boost, you can opt to let it also take effect on your dragon mount. You can only use this class feature when mounted on your draconic mount.

    Dragon Rush (Ex): You and your dragon strengthen each otherís spirit, spurring your dragon to greater speeds when needed. At level 3, once per encounter, you can spur your mount as a swift action, increasing the movement speed of your mount by 50 ft.. This cannot be used in conjunction with a charge. This class feature can be used once per minute when outside of combat. The speed attained cannot exceed twice the dragons normal movement speed.

    Wyvern Lord Stance (Ex): When your knowledge of both dragon and martial maneuvres increases, you can apply that information to the benefit if you both. At level 4, when in a Twin Spirit martial stance while on top your dragon mount, you can forgo that stance and gain the benefits of this stance as a swift action. This stance can only be used while airborne. Whenever you and your mount both threaten somebody, both of you always count as flanking the target. You also deal 1d6 elemental damage on your melee attacks depending on the type of mount you have. You and your mount also gain a 20% miss chance against all ranged attacks, both magical and non-magical, as long as they require an attack roll.

    Teamwork (Ex): Your teamwork with your dragon keeps you both safe. At level 5, when mounted on your draconic mount, you gain half your mountís Constitution modifier as a circumstance bonus on AC and your mount gains half your Charisma bonus as a circumstance bonus on his saves. These bonuses cannot go into the negative (cannot lower the AC or Saves).

    Retributive Strike (Ex): Your draconic companionís devotion to you becomes so strong, that his determination damages the enemies that dare to attack you. At level 6, the first time a specific enemy attacks you, your mount gets a free Attack of Opportunity against that enemy that doesn't count against its total number of Attacks of Opportunity per round. This can trigger once per round at level 6, twice at level 8 and trice at level 10.

    Two Determined Souls (Ex): In times of need, you need to support each other and sometimes make sacrifices to reach a important destination fast. At level 7, once per day, you can try to convince your mount to fly at nearly impossible speeds with a DC 10+Dragon Rider level+mount Cha modifier Diplomacy check. If you succeed, your mount can fly in a straight line at 10 times its fly speed for 10 min. This movement must be continuous. After this flight, your mount is fatigued until it rests for one hour on the ground.

    Imbued Lance (Su): Your dragon's most potent weapon is also your own. At 8th level, you are able to imbue your own weapon with the breath of your dragon companion as a swift action. If you make a successful attack with the imbued weapon this round, your attack deals extra damage equal to the amount and type of damage dealt by your dragon's breath weapon.

    This ability may only be used with a melee weapon that deals extra damage on a charge attack, such as a lance. If your dragon's breath weapon does not deal direct damage, your attack inflicts the breath effect on your target with no save. This does not work with death effects or other breath abilities that cause instant death. After using this ability, your dragon must wait to use its breath weapon for a number of rounds as if it had attacked with its breath weapon as normal. You can only use this ability when your dragon is normally able to use its breath weapon.

    Dragon King Stance (Su): You are so in sync with your mount, that you can harness the raw strength of the dragons themselves. At level 9, when in a martial stance, you can forgo that stance and gain the benefits of this stance as a swift action. This stance can only be used while mounted on your draconic mount. You gain all the immunities your draconic mount has. In addition, you deal 4d6 extra energy damage on all your melee attacks. This damage is of the same type as your dragonís breath weapon. If your mount does not have a breath weapon, this ability deals fire damage.

    Two as one (Ex): Your bodies react as one, and your mount is so tuned to you, that it can perform a lot of the martial tricks you know. You mount now gains the benefit of the stance you are currently in. In addition, it can initiate maneuvers that you know up to 4th level. These maneuvers are considered expended on your list and you can recover them normally. When using a charging maneuver, both you and your mount can initiate one and both are expended. You can not recover maneuvers in the same round that your dragon uses them.

    PLAYING A DRAGON RIDER

    Combat: You fight on the back of your dragon, charging past your opponent inflicting massive damage from above. You can also take a fair bit of damage when needed, but you are best suited picking off easy targets when in the air.

    Advancement: Any martial adept who focuses on mounted combat is suited for this class, although a crusader is one of the better ones, due to being charisma focused.

    Resources: This depends solely on the organization the Dragon Riders have in your campaign. Mostly they are quite wealthy and have large organizations, but sometimes they are loners and donít have many resources to choose from.

    DRAGON RIDERS IN THE WORLD

    Suddenly, the sky was darkened, just as the orcís mace threatened to crush my skull. The orc looked up in horror just as the dragon claws connected with its neck. It was the most beautiful sight I had ever seen and Iíve seen a lot of things.
    ĖJullo Irrio, survivor of an orc raid who was rescued by a Dragon Rider.


    Daily Life: Dragon Riders spend great amounts of time socializing with their dragon, discussing philosophical matters as well as normal small talk. Over time, rider and mount tend to share personality traits, making a normally gruff dragon species more friendly or making a hyperactive rider more docile. Due to their versatility, they are not easily distinguished into one group.

    Notables: Each high fantasy campaign has a few notable dragons, which in turn might have notable Dragon Riders.

    Organizations: As above, depends entirely on the setting in which the Dragon Rider occurs.

    NPC Reaction
    NPCís tend to behave intimidated and awed when confronted by a battle ready dragon, but reactions may vary from fleeing in a panic when confronted with an evil Dragon Rider or children trying to hug or play with the dragon if the dragon and its rider are good aligned.

    IN THE GAME

    Adaptation: When not using dragons in your campaign, you can always use another group of flying creatures in place of them, as long as they have sufficient Ex or Su abilities to share.

    Encounters: When encountered, they are always in the presence of their dragon. They try to be up in the sky for as long as possible and perform guerrilla attacks to wear their enemies down. When threatened, they tend to try and fly away, because the flying speed of a dragon is matched by few.
    Last edited by WaylanderX; 2014-05-10 at 07:00 PM. Reason: Implementing Suggestions
    A swordmaster never backs off, I'll cut you to ribbons with my almighty sabre! CHAOS DANCE!!

    Nyllana OotS Avatar by Lord FullBladder, Master of Goblins!

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    Currently writing a fantasy novel: The Dawn of Life!
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
     
    gooddragon1's Avatar

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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    Retributive Aura (Su)
    dragon type = breath weapon damage type?

    Imbued Lance (Ex)
    dragonís breathweapon -> dragonís breath weapon

    ===

    Looks like an interesting class but how much breath weapon damage are you expecting to get with imbued lance? I'd look at the potential damage output there (not really sure if it's too strong and it might not be). Also, I'm not sure why you'd want to go faster than normal in combat or outside of it. It's interesting but I can't see it coming up often. I do love the idea of new stances though. So it looks good, just do some damage calculations and make sure you're okay with the extra damage output and give others an idea of the extra damage they'd be looking at on average at the level they get that ability.
    There is no emotion more useless in life than hate.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    Always fun, dragon riding.

    The first thing that jumps out to me is the class feature Dragon Bond.

    Why are you including the following statements?

    1. You take a penalty to Handle Animal and Ride when dealing with other creatures other than dragons equal to your level in this prestige class.
    2. Also, you cannot cast any arcane spells while you ride your dragon mount.
    3. You can dismiss and call your dragon as a full round action.
    4. There has to be enough room for your dragon to stand without squeezing.


    1. Why does taking this class make a character less able to train a dog? Thematically? In terms of balance? The character is already eschewing riding horses, why are you penalizing them if they're forced into such a situation instead of giving them a bonus to Ride while on their mount or just excising it entirely?

    2. This is a maneuver-progressing PrC, why do you include this provision? Are you worried that it's too easy and tempting for an arcane caster to dip? It definitely doesn't look easy for a caster to take as a dip, a Jade Phoenix Mage might be able to fit in a few levels though, I suppose.

    3. Why are you making the dragon able to be called and dismissed instead of having it be around all the time? Where does it go to when dismissed? How often may one call it or dismiss it in a day? Is there a limit to how often it can be around at one time?

    4. IIRC, the rules already prevent one from riding a mount while it is squeezing unless the rider has the Tunnel Riding feat from Races of Stone (which has the prerequisite of Tunnel Fighting which is both in Races of Stone and Dungeonscape as I recall)

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    Dragon Bond (Ex): At your first level taking this prestige class, you gain your own draconic mount. This mount function just as a mount chosen from the Draconic Cohort feat, with the following changes:
    You take a penalty to Handle Animal and Ride when dealing with other creatures other than dragons equal to your level in this prestige class. Also, you cannot cast any arcane spells while you ride your dragon mount. You can dismiss and call your dragon as a full round action. There has to be enough room for your dragon to stand without squeezing.
    Calling your dragon is a supernatural ability. If you are eligible for a new dragon mount, you can meditate for 24 hours and pay 1000gp to switch your mount.
    I believe the name of the feat from Draconomicon is Dragon Cohort. You may want to specify the source in parentheses if you're using a different source/feat.

    Wyvern Lord Stance (Ex): When your knowledge of both dragon and martial manoeuvres increases, you can apply that information to the benefit if you both. At level 4, when in a martial stance, you can forgo that stance and gain the benefits of this stance as a swift action. This stance can only be used while airborne. Whenever you and your mount both threaten somebody, both of you always count as flanking the target. You also gain 1d6 sneak attack damage. You and your mount also gain a 20% miss chance against all ranged attacks, both magical and non-magical, as long as they require an attack roll.
    The bolded if should be of instead, by my reading.

    The bolded somebody might scan better as "the same creature" instead.

    The bolded both magical and non-magical might scan better as "regardless of source," instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    This class might wish to be a little less exclusive...I can see Paladins wanting to ride Gold Dragons around...might want to put something where having a special mount class feature will also get you in.

  5. - Top - End - #5
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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban's Standard Disclaimer
    So that you understand my review style, I'm doing a review of this on my first read through, so some of my thoughts might not be the most insightful had I given this a full, thorough reading prior to that.

    This review is literally my thoughts on the post as I go through it, reading each section. If my questions or concerns are addressed later in the material, I will make note of that at the point they are addressed. This method of review helps to identify trouble spots and ambiguous areas that need a bit of editing that a comprehensive review might not catch. After I finish the entire post, I'll usually read through it a second time and post a comprehensive review in my final thoughts.

    Also of note, I have done a lot of editing in my time, some of it professionally. As such I will point out spelling mistakes and flagrant grammatical errors. Please don't take this personally, as some are very inclined to do. I'm just trying to help you make your work the best it can be.

    Finally, it takes time and effort to review your work. You may not agree with all of the comments I post as a reviewer, and that's fine. I ask only that you be polite about any disagreements you have and, if you're so inclined, check out my own homebrew in return. Thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    Hello Playground,

    Last couple of weeks I've been looking for a good Dragon Rider Prc, but was unable to find any good ones with flavourfull abilities to use in a homebrew campain I am in at the moment. However, after some time I decided to build my own and this is the result. I hope you guys find this an interesting take on the Dragon Rider archetype.

    Thank you in advance if you're willing to PEACH,

    Way
    That is, quite probably, the best reason ever to home brew. It's always nice to see the reasoning and background behind a piece of work. Frankly, if I don't see some sort of reasoning behind why the person is doing it in the introduction, I'm significantly less inclined to read or review it.

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    My dragon and me are worth an entire army, do you think you can compete with us?[/CENTER]
    Should really be, "My dragon and I are worth an entire army. Do you think you can compete with us?"

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    ENTRY REQUIREMENTS

    BAB: +7
    Skills: Ride 9 ranks, Diplomacy 10 ranks
    Feats: Mounted Combat, Spirited Charge, Dragonfriend OR Dragonthrall
    Manoevers: 4 maneuvers known, including at least 1 Twin Spirit or White Raven manoever of level 3 or higher.
    Entry requirements are high, as they should be. Looks like a multiclass Paladin or Ranger 1/Warblade 6 is the simplest entry method. It gets the BAB, skills, and feats well enough. I'm a bit hesitant to grant a large dragon (i.e, one large enough to ride) to one of the players at 8th level and would probably push back the entry requirements to make earliest entry as after level 10.
    Also, just as a redundant requirement, it should require Speak Language (Draconic).
    Finally, you've misspelled "maneuver" a couple of times. (Addendum: And several other places throughout. You might want to run a spell check.)

    I might suggest requiring Dragon Steed as a feat instead of Spirited Charge, unless Spirited Charge plays into the class abilities. The dragonnel granted by the feat would then be replaced with an actual dragon after this class was taken. Just a thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    Class Skills: Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Diplomacy, Listen, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Arcana), Ride, Spot.

    Skills Points at Each Level: 2+int modifier

    Hitdice: d10
    I'm not sure why Climb is on the list, unless you have to Climb your dragon just to reach the saddle. The list seems to be dubiously missing Craft.
    Number of skills and Hit Die seem appropriate.

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    Dragon Rider

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special| Maneuvers readied | Maneuvers known | Stances known
    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Dragon Bond|
    0
    |
    0
    |
    0

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Share Boost|
    1
    |
    0
    |
    0

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Dragon Rush |
    0
    |
    1
    |
    1

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Wyvern Lord Stance |
    0
    |
    0
    |
    0

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Teamwork |
    0
    |
    1
    |
    0

    6th|
    +6
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Retributive Aura|
    0
    |
    0
    |
    0

    7th|
    +7
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Two Determined Souls |
    1
    |
    1
    |
    0

    8th|
    +8
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |Imbued Lance |
    0
    |
    0
    |
    1

    9th|
    +9
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    | Dragon King Stance |
    0
    |
    1
    |
    0

    10th|
    +10
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Two as one |
    0
    |
    0
    |
    0
    [/table]
    Just glancing at the table before reading the class abilities, the maneuver/stance progress seems about right, maybe push the stances back by 1 level if it needs to be brought down in power. Speaking of which, can you even use stances while mounted?
    Full BAB and 2 good saves? I'd probably drop the good Fort save. Ref should stay high, what with the practice you get dodging breath attacks on a regular basis.

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    Martial Maneuvers (Ex): Dragonrider levels count fully for the purpose of initiator level. You gain new maneuvers readied and known and new stances known based on the table above. The schools you can choose from are the same of those of the baseclass you belonged to before this prestige class. If you have multiple initiator classes before taking level in this prestige class, you can only choose 1 class from which you can choose your maneuvers.
    As expected from an Initiator class.
    "base class" is two words.

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    Dragon Bond (Ex): At your first level taking this prestige class, you gain your own draconic mount. This mount function just as a mount chosen from the Draconic Cohort feat, with the following changes:
    You take a penalty to Handle Animal and Ride when dealing with other creatures other than dragons equal to your level in this prestige class. Also, you cannot cast any arcane spells while you ride your dragon mount. You can dismiss and call your dragon as a full round action. There has to be enough room for your dragon to stand without squeezing.

    Calling your dragon is a supernatural ability. If you are eligible for a new dragon mount, you can meditate for 24 hours and pay 1000gp to switch your mount.
    Ah, Draconic Cohort. Perhaps you should require that feat instead of the previously suggested Dragon Steed or specifically grant it as a bonus feat rather than copying its ability. Requiring or granting it would prevent taking it in addition to this class and ending up with two pet dragons.

    I'm not sure that I understand the purposes of the penalties to Handle Animal and Ride nor on the ban of arcane spells but not divine nor of the gold cost to change dragons (or why you'd want to change them, as it just seems rude).

    Dismiss and call the dragon? This isn't granted as a special mount. Dragon Cohort just leaves the dragon with you at all times. In no way does this make it into a paladin's special mount. Dragon Steed does make the dragonnel into your special mount, but, even then, it does so only if you already have a paladin special mount. On another note, I can't see a dragon (especially an evil one) being willing to be summoned and dismissed at will by a 'lesser being.'

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    The species of dragon you choose must be within 2 alignment steps from your own. Your mount in question is automatically of your alignment, no matter what kind of dragon you take. Remember, although this mount is loyal to you, it is still an intelligent being with a will of its own, it can try to give you advice or try to persuade you not to take an action it perceives as unwise.
    Within 2 alignment steps? That's a pretty large gap. So, I could, as a Lawful Good Paladin ride a Lawful Evil dragon and summon/dismiss it at will? Nifty, I suppose... punishing it for being evil. I would probably reduce it to 1 step difference but allow up to 1 step on both the moral and ethical axes. E.g. an LG character could have an LG, LN, NG, or N mount.

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    Share Boost (Ex): You and your dragon can work together as a team, and so you learned to share your focus with your dragon. At level 2, whenever you use a martial boost, you can opt to let it also take effect on your dragon mount. You can only use this class feature when mounted on your draconic mount.
    Seems like a decently strong feature and nice to have. Works for me. Only concern is that it should probably be a supernatural ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    Dragon Rush (Ex): You and your dragon strengthen each otherís spirit, spurring your dragon to greater speeds when needed. At level 3, once per encounter, you can spur your mount as a swift action, increasing the movement speed of your mount by 50 ft.. This cannot be used in conjunction with a charge. This class feature can be used once per minute when outside of combat.
    Seems appropriate; however, I'd include a caveat that the dragon's speed can not be increased to more than double its normal speed using this ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    Wyvern Lord Stance (Ex): When your knowledge of both dragon and martial manoeuvres increases, you can apply that information to the benefit if you both. At level 4, when in a martial stance, you can forgo that stance and gain the benefits of this stance as a swift action. This stance can only be used while airborne. Whenever you and your mount both threaten somebody, both of you always count as flanking the target. You also gain 1d6 sneak attack damage. You and your mount also gain a 20% miss chance against all ranged attacks, both magical and non-magical, as long as they require an attack roll.
    I ask again, because I don't know: Can stances be used while mounted?

    If you are going to grant stances as a class feature, I personally would not also grant them on the normal progression chart. As to the ability type of this, wouldn't just granting a stance known be like granting a bonus feat? Bonus Feats don't have a type, so it seems like this shouldn't either. Granted though, I haven't looked specifically to see if that's true of bonus maneuvers/stances.

    The stance itself seems incredibly potent. I can see the always flanking benefit due to excellent coordination and teamwork, but the sneak attack and the conditional miss chance seem a bit odd. Especially the conditional miss chance. Perhaps instead of granting a sneak attack die (which can help to open up several over-optimization nightmares), you could just grant an insight bonus to damage equal to 1/2 class levels, rounded down. This gives you +5 (non-precision) damage at level 10, which is almost strictly better than 1d6 anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    Teamwork (Ex): Your teamwork with your dragon keeps you both safe. At level 5, when mounted on your draconic mount, you gain half your mountís Constitution modifier as a circumstance bonus on AC and your mount gains half your Charisma bonus as a circumstance bonus on his saves.
    That is... potentially very strong. I can see that you definitely had a paladin or crusader in mind when you made this class, as those seem to be the most synergistic with what you've written.
    I can't fault the ability though. You do need to include a clause setting a minimum so that getting hit with a Charisma penalty/damage doesn't negatively impact your dragon's saves, and the same for his Con to your AC, which is much less of a concern given the very high Con scores of dragons.

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    Retributive Aura (Su): Your draconic companionís devotion to you becomes so strong, that his determination damages the enemies that dare to attack you. At level 6, the first time a specific enemy attacks you, the enemy takes elemental damage corresponding to the dragon type (Gold dragon equals fire, green dragon equals acid, ect.) equal to the dragons HD. If your mount is not associated with an elemental type, this ability deals fire damage.
    I'll be honest here. I really, really dislike this ability. Maybe if you were riding an elemental or something from the elemental planes. Maybe.
    I'd suggest renaming this to "Retributive Strike" and have it simply grant the dragon an Attack of Opportunity against anyone making an attack against the rider.

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    Two Determined Souls (Ex): In times of need, you need to support each other and sometimes make sacrifices to reach a important destination fast. At level 7, once per day, you can try to convince your mount to fly at nearly impossible speeds with a DC 10+mount HD+mount Cha modifier Diplomacy check. If you succeed, your mount can fly in a straight line at 10 times its fly speed for 10 min. This movement must be continuous. After this flight, your mount is fatigued until it rests for one hour on the ground.
    This is a neat ability, but it's very, very situational. Also, the DC gets higher as you gain levels due to the dragon's HD and Charisma increasing. Making it harder as you gain levels is not a good mechanic. At the least, the DC needs rethinking. At most, I'd suggest just outright replacing this with a different ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    Imbued Lance (Ex): Your mountís weapon are also your own. At level 8, you can imbue your weapon with the breath weapon of your scaly companion. As a swift action, you gain your mounts breath weapon damage as extra damage on your weapon damage. This extra damage is of the same damage type as the breath weapon itself. This causes the breath weapon of your mount to go on its 1d4 rounds cooldown.

    This class feature can only be used when wielding a weapon that does extra damage on a charge. The opponent does not get a reflex save for half damage when hit by an imbued lance. If your dragon does not have a breath weapon that deals damage but has another effect, your weapon delivers that effect without a save, with the exception of death effects or effect that cause instant death. If your mount does not have a breath weapon, you gain imbue your weapon with one Ex or Su ability of your choice that the mount possesses (E.g. wyvernís poison or fang dragonís Con damage). Your mount then loses that ability for 1d4 rounds.
    This should really be a supernatural ability due to the breath weapons being (Su) and the seemingly magical transfer taking place. I'd also likely drop the ability to pick any ability if your mount doesn't have a breath weapon and just leave this as an incentive to ride a true dragon or at least one with a breath attack.

    The wording is a bit clunky, but the ability isn't bad. Try something like:
    Imbued Lance (Su): Your dragon's most potent weapon is also your own. At 8th level, you are able to imbue your own weapon with the breath of your dragon companion as a swift action. If you make a successful attack with the imbued weapon this round, your attack deals extra damage equal to the amount and type of damage dealt by your dragon's breath weapon.

    This ability may only be used with a melee weapon that deals extra damage on a charge attack, such as a lance. If your dragon's breath weapon does not deal direct damage, your attack inflicts the breath effect on your target with no save. This does not work with death effects or other breath abilities that cause instant death. After using this ability, your dragon must wait to use its breath weapon for a number of rounds as if it had attacked with its breath weapon as normal. You can only use this ability when your dragon is normally able to use its breath weapon.


    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    Dragon King Stance (Su): You are so in sync with your mount, that you can harness the raw strength of the dragons themselves. At level 9, when in a martial stance, you can forgo that stance and gain the benefits of this stance as a swift action. This stance can only be used while mounted on your draconic mount. You gain all the immunities your draconic mount has. In addition, you deal 4d6 extra energy damage on all your melee attacks. This damage is the same as your dragonís breathweapon. If your mount does not have a breath weapon, this ability deals fire damage.
    I would probably pick a specific school to pair with this ability, much like the Deepstone Sentinel requires a Stone Dragon stance.

    For clarity, it should read "This damage is of the same energy type as your dragon's breath weapon."

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    Two as one (Ex): Your bodies react as one, and your mount is so tuned to you, that it can perform a lot of the martial tricks you know. You mount now gains the benefit of the stance you are currently in. In addition, it can initiate maneuvers that you know up to 4th level. These maneuvers are considered expended on your list and you can recover them normally. When using a charging maneuver, both you and your mount can initiate one and both are expended.
    "so attuned to" "Your mount"
    Seems like a pretty darn good capstone ability. I would include a caveat that you can not recover maneuvers in the same round that your dragon uses them in order to prevent endless spamming of the same one maneuver.



    Final Thoughts: Overall, I rather like this class. It seems mostly well thought out and an interesting take on an Initiator who rides a dragon. My main concern is whether or not stances can be used while mounted. Tome of Battle is definitely the book with which I'm least familiar, and I couldn't find an answer with a quick skimming of the rules. There are only a few issues I've seen, mostly just things in need of clarification, and only one ability that I thought should be dropped.


    My secondary concerns are related entirely to the mount itself.
    1. First, the acquiring of the dragon. I feel like this class should pick a single dragon and stick with it rather than switching it out. Granted that this is a purely fluff concern, but treating dragons as disposable mounts that can be picked up and abandoned at will and serving at the beck and call of the rider seems disrespectful of the dragon. I can't see a character who earned the Dragonfriend feat acting in this manner, nor can I see evil dragons allowing a character with the Dragonthrall feat to behave this way without becoming lunch.
    2. Second, issues with the paladin related rules. This either needs to be made into a paladin special mount based class or have those particular rules excised entirely. As an alternative idea, you can go the route of the Ashworm Dragoon and give this class a single mountable dragon that has its own progression chart similar to that of a paladin special mount. This allows the progression of the mount without simply discarding it when it is no longer useful and solve both of these problems at once. Whether or not that's something you'd like to do with this class, I couldn't say.




    1
    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    PLAYING A DRAGON RIDER

    Combat: You fight on the back of your dragon, charging past your opponent inflicting massive damage from above. When needed, you can also take a fair bit of damage when needed, but you are best suited picking off easy target when in the air.
    Redundant "when needed" in the sentence. "easy targets"

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    Advancement: Any martial adept who focuses on mounted combat is suited for this class, although a crusader is one of the better ones, due to being charisma focused. After this prestige class, it is best to go back to your baseclass to keep your initiator level high.
    "base class". Also, I hearken back to my comment on the Entry Requirements. I would personally not allow this class to be taken prior to level 11, gaining 10th level in this class at ECL 20. Again, just a thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    Resources: This depends solely on the organization the Dragon Riders have in your campaign. Mostly they are quite wealthy and have large organizations, but sometimes they are loners and donít have much resources to choose from.
    "many resources"

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    DRAGON RIDERS IN THE WORLD

    Suddenly, the sky was darkened, just as the orcís mace threatened to crush my skull. The orc looked up in horror just as the dragon claws connected with its neck. It was the most beautiful sight I had ever seen and Iíve seen a lot of things.
    ĖJullo Irrio, survivor of an orc raid who was rescued by a Dragon Rider.


    Daily Life: Dragon Riders spend great amounts of time socializing with their dragon, discussing philosophical matters as well as normal small talk. Over time, rider and mount tend to share personality traits, making a normally gruff dragon species more friendly or making a hyperactive rider more docile. Due to their versatility, they are not easily distinguished into 1 group.
    "one group"

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    Notables: Each high fantasy campaign has a few notable dragons, which in turn might have notable Dragon Riders.

    Organizations: As above, depends entirely on the setting in which the Dragon Rider occurs.
    You probably ought to either include specifics or just drop these two sections entirely. Saying "It's up to your DM" is fairly redundant.

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    NPC Reaction
    NPCís tend to behave intimidated and awed when confronted by a battle ready dragon, but reactions may vary from fleeing in a panic when confronted with an evil Dragon Rider or children trying to hug or play with the dragon if the dragon and its rider are good aligned.

    IN THE GAME

    Adaptation: When not using dragons in your campaign, you can always use another group of flying creatures in place of them, as long as they have sufficient Ex or Su abilities to share.
    I'd suggest giving a specific example of how to adapt it, mostly just for completeness of showing how you would expect it to be done.

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    Encounters: When encountered, they are always (duh) in the presence of their dragon. They try to be up in the sky for as long as possible and perform guerrilla attacks to wear their enemies down. When threatened, they tend to try and fly away, because the flying speed of a dragon is matched by few.
    Remove "(duh)".
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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    Also, one...minorly important detail you kinda failed to mention...

    The draconic partner? How old is he/she?

    Dragons ECL for Exalted Cohort (only for good dragons, of course...)

    Brass dragon (wyrmling)4 Chaotic good 6th
    Copper dragon (wyrmling)4 Chaotic good 7th
    Brass dragon (very young)4 Chaotic good 10th
    Bronze dragon (wyrmling)4 Lawful good 10th
    Copper dragon (very young)4 Chaotic good 11th
    Silver dragon (wyrmling)4 Lawful good 11th
    Gold dragon (wyrmling)4 Lawful good 12th
    Bronze dragon (very young)4 Lawful good 13th
    Brass dragon (young)4 Chaotic good 14th
    Silver dragon (very young)4 Lawful good 14th
    Copper dragon (young)4 Chaotic good 15th
    Gold dragon (very young)4 Lawful good 16th
    Brass dragon (juvenile)4 Chaotic good 17th
    Bronze dragon (young)4, 5 Lawful good 18th
    Copper dragon (juvenile)4, 5 Chaotic good 18th
    Silver dragon (young)4, 5 Lawful good 18th
    Gold dragon (young)4, 5 Lawful good 20th


    By this chart, we can see that the Paladin who sensibly wants a gold dragon to ride is getting an ECL 20 creature for a buddy. Not bad, Paladin. Of course, as a Teir 5, you needed the help, but still...

    A juvenile gold dragon is technically 'epic only', unless you throw ECL out the window and judge them by CR instead.

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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    Wow, thank you all that replied. I am very happy with all of the feedback you all provided. It will be put to good, devious use ().

    I'll evaluate and adress the issues you all found in the weekend.

    Thanks again and I'll see if I can peach something back.

    Cheers,

    Way
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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelalex242 View Post
    Also, one...minorly important detail you kinda failed to mention...

    The draconic partner? How old is he/she?

    Dragons ECL for Exalted Cohort (only for good dragons, of course...)
    Spoiler: snip
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    Brass dragon (wyrmling)4 Chaotic good 6th
    Copper dragon (wyrmling)4 Chaotic good 7th
    Brass dragon (very young)4 Chaotic good 10th
    Bronze dragon (wyrmling)4 Lawful good 10th
    Copper dragon (very young)4 Chaotic good 11th
    Silver dragon (wyrmling)4 Lawful good 11th
    Gold dragon (wyrmling)4 Lawful good 12th
    Bronze dragon (very young)4 Lawful good 13th
    Brass dragon (young)4 Chaotic good 14th
    Silver dragon (very young)4 Lawful good 14th
    Copper dragon (young)4 Chaotic good 15th
    Gold dragon (very young)4 Lawful good 16th
    Brass dragon (juvenile)4 Chaotic good 17th
    Bronze dragon (young)4, 5 Lawful good 18th
    Copper dragon (juvenile)4, 5 Chaotic good 18th
    Silver dragon (young)4, 5 Lawful good 18th
    Gold dragon (young)4, 5 Lawful good 20th



    By this chart, we can see that the Paladin who sensibly wants a gold dragon to ride is getting an ECL 20 creature for a buddy. Not bad, Paladin. Of course, as a Teir 5, you needed the help, but still...

    A juvenile gold dragon is technically 'epic only', unless you throw ECL out the window and judge them by CR instead.
    Yeah, this area of stickiness was cited as the reason why the last few dragon rider homebrews that I recall involved basically creating a new kind of creature based on the various dragons that progressed in power sort of like how a Pathfinder animal companion increases with the level of the character it's attached to at every level.

    The one I best remember (but sadly am not able to find) explained it as taking a runt which wouldn't develop properly and enacting a magical bonding ritual allowing it to survive and gain power along that path instead of the normal way, which also allowed it to sidestep the potential issue of having one's mount getting too old to continue to be a mount.
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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    Yeah, this area of stickiness was cited as the reason why the last few dragon rider homebrews that I recall involved basically creating a new kind of creature based on the various dragons that progressed in power sort of like how a Pathfinder animal companion increases with the level of the character it's attached to at every level.

    The one I best remember (but sadly am not able to find) explained it as taking a runt which wouldn't develop properly and enacting a magical bonding ritual allowing it to survive and gain power along that path instead of the normal way, which also allowed it to sidestep the potential issue of having one's mount getting too old to continue to be a mount.
    That sounds like something I'd like to see as that's how I usually run why dragons join up as familiars, special mounts, etc.
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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    Well...it's worth remembering the biggest thing this class gives you is the dragon itself. And without some impressive steps being taken, the mount will inevitably be more awesome then its rider.

    Another point of concern...you need to be size Large to carry a medium rider....

    Guess what age categories of dragons are size large? I'll give you the minimums...

    A brass dragon must be young adult to be size large...and rideable by a human.
    Copper dragons must also be young adult to be size large and rideable by a human.
    Bronze dragons need only be juvenile to be size large.
    Silver dragons also hit large at juvenile
    Gold dragons need only be very young to be size large.

    What can we see from this list, compared to the ECL of dragons?

    Only Gold Dragons hit size large soon enough in life to be suitable as mounts! A very young gold dragon has an ECL low enough to be suitable as a mount, and you can even let it age one size category and still be no more then ECL 20.

    For Evil Dragon Riders, only the Red is really suitable, since it turns large at very young just like a Gold does.
    Last edited by Angelalex242; 2013-11-01 at 02:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    You might want to get a different picture before a moderator notices. Its got a bit of a nip slip.

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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    Indeed, the extant rules for riding dragons in 3.5 are kind of lackluster/woefully deficient, even for Small sized characters where it's actually feasible for more than 1-2 levels.

    SRD Dragons: (Unless I've forgotten something here)
    Spoiler: Chromatic
    Show
    First get access to a mount as a 10th level, Small sized character.

    Ideal entry into the PrC means the first level of the PrC is the character's 8th level taken.

    That's two levels where a character has dragon bond but can't actually ride their dragon if they want a chromatic dragon.

    • Young Black Dragons 10 HD + 3 LA - 3 ECL = 10 cohort level + 2 = 12th level rider
    • Very Young Blue Dragons 9 HD + 4 LA - 3 ECL = 10 cohort level + 2 = 12th level rider
    • Very Young Green Dragons 8 HD + 5 LA - 3 ECL = 10 cohort level + 2 = 12th level rider
    • Wyrmling Red Dragons 7 HD + 4 LA - 3 ECL = 8 cohort level + 2 = 10th level rider
    • Young White Dragons 9 HD + 3 LA - 3 ECL = 9 cohort level + 2 = 11th level rider


    Spoiler: Metallic
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    First get access to a mount as an 11th level, Small-sized character.

    Ideal entry into the PrC means the first level of the PrC is the character's 8th level taken.

    That's three levels where they can have a dragon cohort but can't ride it if they favor metallic dragons. In a class themed around riding a dragon.

    • Young Brass Dragons 10 HD + 4 LA - 3 ECL = 11 cohort level + 2 = 13th level rider
    • Very Young Bronze Dragons 9 HD + 4 LA - 3 ECL = 10 cohort level + 2 = 12th level rider
    • Young Copper Dragons 11 HD + 4 LA - 3 ECL = 12 cohort level + 2 = 14th level rider
    • Wyrmling Gold Dragons 8 HD + 4 LA - 3 ECL = 9 cohort level + 2 = 11th level rider
    • Very Young Silver Dragons 10 HD + 4 LA - 3 ECL = 11 cohort level + 2 = 13th level rider
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    Indeed, the extant rules for riding dragons in 3.5 are kind of lackluster/woefully deficient, even for Small sized characters where it's actually feasible for more than 1-2 levels.

    SRD Dragons: (Unless I've forgotten something here)
    Spoiler: Chromatic
    Show
    First get access to a mount as a 10th level, Small sized character.

    Ideal entry into the PrC means the first level of the PrC is the character's 8th level taken.

    That's two levels where a character has dragon bond but can't actually ride their dragon if they want a chromatic dragon.

    • Young Black Dragons 10 HD + 3 LA - 3 ECL = 10 cohort level + 2 = 12th level rider
    • Very Young Blue Dragons 9 HD + 4 LA - 3 ECL = 10 cohort level + 2 = 12th level rider
    • Very Young Green Dragons 8 HD + 5 LA - 3 ECL = 10 cohort level + 2 = 12th level rider
    • Wyrmling Red Dragons 7 HD + 4 LA - 3 ECL = 8 cohort level + 2 = 10th level rider
    • Young White Dragons 9 HD + 3 LA - 3 ECL = 9 cohort level + 2 = 11th level rider


    Spoiler: Metallic
    Show
    First get access to a mount as an 11th level, Small-sized character.

    Ideal entry into the PrC means the first level of the PrC is the character's 8th level taken.

    That's three levels where they can have a dragon cohort but can't ride it if they favor metallic dragons. In a class themed around riding a dragon.

    • Young Brass Dragons 10 HD + 4 LA - 3 ECL = 11 cohort level + 2 = 13th level rider
    • Very Young Bronze Dragons 9 HD + 4 LA - 3 ECL = 10 cohort level + 2 = 12th level rider
    • Young Copper Dragons 11 HD + 4 LA - 3 ECL = 12 cohort level + 2 = 14th level rider
    • Wyrmling Gold Dragons 8 HD + 4 LA - 3 ECL = 9 cohort level + 2 = 11th level rider
    • Very Young Silver Dragons 10 HD + 4 LA - 3 ECL = 11 cohort level + 2 = 13th level rider
    You're forgetting that this class assumes you'll be able to get dragon type creatures other than an actual true dragon, e.g. a wyvern. That just doesn't seem to be supported by the rules though...
    Last edited by Rizban; 2013-11-01 at 04:59 PM.
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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    There seem to be a lot of arbitrary limiters in the class. Give it a play and see how how you like, but I were it me I'd be petitioning to drop alot of the excess ruleset you've added to the class features.

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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    After Reading alot of these comments and seen how much flak the Dragon Bond class feature got, I've decided to redo this class feature. I'll have it ready in about an hour from now I think.

    Special thanks to all that PEACHed here and even more thanks to Rizban for his very detailed PEACH. That one really improved the class. Also, the retributive aura is changed into retributive strike. After thinking it over it indeed felt more appropiate.

    Due to popular demand, I'll loosen up the entry prereqs a bit.

    Stay tuned for more updates, those who are interested.

    Way
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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    Well, since a very young Gold Dragon is ECL 16, I think the class could stand to lose some class features in order to 'pay' for the massive ECL of the draconic partner. If you're going to use a Very young Gold...the Draconic Cohort/Draconic Mount will let you treat the ECL of the dragon as if it were 3 levels lower...

    Which becomes ECL 13. Which is STILL higher then you when you enter this class...

    So it's okay if the class has 'dead levels', because you could write it as 'dead levels pay for the ECL of the Dragon.'

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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    Oke guys, after 2 hours of brainstorming, thinking up idea's and stealing from some of my earlier classes/prc's, I've come up with this system for making your own dragon. On a sidenote, I've replaced Brass and Bronze dragons with Air and Force (Not the epic force dragons) dragons. Let me know what you guys think and how I should improve upon it (As I'm sure some things are still not quite up to standard, considering the haste with which I made this ).

    Well, since a very young Gold Dragon is ECL 16, I think the class could stand to lose some class features in order to 'pay' for the massive ECL of the draconic partner. If you're going to use a Very young Gold...the Draconic Cohort/Draconic Mount will let you treat the ECL of the dragon as if it were 3 levels lower...

    Which becomes ECL 13. Which is STILL higher then you when you enter this class...

    So it's okay if the class has 'dead levels', because you could write it as 'dead levels pay for the ECL of the Dragon.'
    I rather fix the power of the dragon a bit then to lose some of its class features. In my opinion the class features provide a much needed bit of flavor. But thank you for the suggestion.

    Dragon Bond (Ex): At your first level taking this prestige class, you gain your own draconic mount.

    These dragons are not like real true dragons, although they resemble them in appearance. These dragons are born when the growth process inside the egg is disrupted because of mutation in the dragons genome for example, producing a not fully developed, but still viable individual. Because of the changed growth pattern they possess, they growth much faster the first few years, making them very suitable for dragon riders. However, they need special emotional support a draconic parent just cannot give. For these dragons to survive, their draconic parents usually put them under the care of a dragon rider at the age of 42, which then takes care of the dragon, helping it through its tough life. Note however, because it is less powerfull than a healthy true dragon, that does not mean that is it weak in any way. Its combat capabilities and flying prowess are still very good for an animal of their size. Because of its imperfections, the dragon is typically shunned by the rest of its kind and tends to stay at the side of its rider as much as possible. This causes a strong bond to develop between the two.

    You can choose yourself which type of dragon you want, which has a base statblock, as seen below, plus any bonuses, subtypes and movement modifications depending on its type (Movement speed given is the adjusted value, all other speeds are the same as the basic dragon). As you gain levels, your Dragon also gains extra Hitdie, Natural Armor, Strength and Constitution bonuses and special abilities. Your Dragon cannot grow larger than large size through Hitdie. All this information can be found in the spoilers below. The Breathweapon of your Dragon starts off at 4d6 which the following elemental types: Gold-Fire, Silver-Cold, Air-Sonic*, Force-Force*, Red-Fire, Black-Negative Energy*, Green-Acid, White-Cold. It is always a 30 ft. Cone or a 60 ft. line, choosen when you take your first level in this Prc. The breath weapon can be used once every 1d4 rounds. Enemies take half damage if they succeed a Reflex save DC 10+Half Mount HD+Mount Constitution modifier.

    You can distribute the skillpoints the dragon has as you see fit, as long as it is one of the following skills: Concentration, Diplomacy, Knowledge (Arcana, Religion, The Planes), Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, Use Magic Device. The Dragon also gains feats at a normal rate, which you may distribute yourself as well.

    Your mount is automatically of your alignment, no matter what kind of dragon you take. Remember, although this mount is loyal to you, it is still an intelligent being with a will of its own, it can try to give you advice or try to persuade you not to take an action it perceives as unwise.

    Furthermore, the Dragon requires a hoard of 1000 gp per Dragon Rider level for itself. This is the Dragon's property and may respond badly when it is taken away from him. When the hoard price is not paid, the Dragon will typically refuse to be mounted untill the price has been paid.

    Finally, when you use the Special mount prerequisite for this class, you can add the levels of the class that granted you the special mount to your Dragon Rider level when determining the bonuses gained from this class only. Your dragon does not gain the bonuses of your old class.

    *Breathweapons for Air, Black and Force dragons are reduced to 4d6 and improves by d6 instead of d8.

    Basic Stats for your Dragon

    Spoiler
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    Large Dragon
    Hit Dice:9d12+40 (90)
    Initiative: +0
    Speed: 50 ft., 120 ft. fly (Average)
    Armor Class: 18 ( -1 size, +9 Natural Armor)
    Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+17
    Attack: +12 Bite (2d6+4)
    Full Attack: Bite +12 melee (2d6+4) and 2 claws +10 melee (1d8+2) and 2 wings +10 melee (1d6+2) and tail slap +10 melee (1d8+2)
    Space/Reach: 10 ft./10ft.
    Special Attacks: Breathweapon 4d6
    Special Qualities: Dragon traits, elemental immunity
    Saves: +11 Fort, +7 Ref, +8 Will
    Abilities: Str: 18, Dex 10, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 12
    Skills: Chosen by rider
    Feats: Multiattack (B), (Rest of the Feats is up to the player)


    Dragon HD Progression:

    Spoiler
    Show
    {table=head]Level|Bonus HD|Bonus Strenght, Constitution and Natural Armor |Special Abilities
    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    Empathic Bond
    |
    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    Lesser Spell-like Abilities, Breathweapon 6d8
    |
    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    Uncanny Dodge
    |
    4th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    Evasion
    |
    5th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    Maturing Wings, Breathweapon 8d8
    |
    6th|
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    Common Spell-like Abilities
    |
    7th|
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    Mental Maturity
    |
    8th|
    +7
    |
    +4
    |
    Mettle, Breathweapon 10d8
    |
    9th|
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    Immediate Calling
    |
    10th|
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    Greater Spell-like Abilities, Breathweapon 12d8
    |
    [/table]

    Bonus HD: Each level after first, your Dragon gains one bonus HD. Although this does give it more skillpoints and feats, it does not increase its size under any circumstance.

    Bonus Strenght: Your Dragon gains a untyped bonus to strenght equal to the number listed.

    Empathic Link (Su): At level 1, The Dragon Rider gains an empathic link with her mount out to a distance of up to 1 mile. The paladin cannot see through the mountís eyes, but they can communicate empathically.
    Note that dragons see the world differently from humans, so misunderstandings are always possible.
    Because of this empathic link, the Dragon Rider has the same connection to an item or place that her mount does, just as with a master and his familiar (see Familiars).

    Spell-like Abilities (Sp): At level 2, your Dragon gains a small set of spell-like abilities it can use, depending on the kind of dragon. Each spell-like ability is usable once per day. At 6th level, it gains access to Common Spelllike Abilities and on 10th level it gains access to Greater Spelllike Abilities. Each time you gain access to the next tier, the last tier is usable 1 time per day more, for a total of 3/2/1. The Dragons casterlevel is equal to your Dragon Rider level + 2.

    Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A Dragon Companion of a Dragon Rider of 3rd level or higher can no longer be flanked.
    This defense denies enemies with the ability to sneak attack to do so by flanking the dragon, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the dragon has HD.

    Evasion (Ex): At fourth level, if the Dragon makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. A helpless dragon does not gain the benefit of evasion.

    Maturing Wings (Ex): At fifth level, the fly speed of your dragon increases by 30 ft. and its manoeuvrability increases by one step.

    Mental Maturity (Ex): At seventh level, your Dragon gain a +2 untyped bonus to two of its mental stats of your choice.

    Immediate Calling (Su): At ninth level, when separated from your Dragon, you can call it adjacent to you by meditating as a full round action, if your Dragon is willing.


    Dragon Spelllike Abilities

    Spoiler
    Show

    {table=head]Dragon type|Lesser Spelllike abilities|Common Spelllike abilities|Greater Spelllike abilities
    Gold|
    Daylight
    |
    Flashburst**
    |
    Greater Invisibility
    |
    Silver|
    Frost Breath
    |
    Sleet Storm
    |
    Orb of Ice
    |
    Air|
    Gust of Wind**
    |
    Great Thunderclap
    |
    Solid Fog
    |
    Force|
    Slapping Hand
    |
    Manyjaws
    |
    Otilukeís Resilient Sphere
    |
    Red|
    Fireburst**
    |
    Fireball
    |
    Wall of Fire
    |
    Black|
    Darkness
    |
    Blacklight*
    |
    Evardís Black Tentacles
    |
    Green|
    Cloud of Bewilderment
    |
    Caustic Smoke
    |
    Orb of Acid
    |
    White|
    Frost Breath
    |
    Fog Cloud
    |
    Ice Storm
    |
    [/table]
    *Rider can also see through the blacklight
    **Rider not affected


    Dragon Type bonuses:

    Spoiler
    Show

    {table=head]Dragon type|Bonuses, Vulnerabilities and changes in movement speeds
    Gold|
    +2 Int, +2 Cha, Fire Subtype
    |
    Silver|
    +2 Int, +2 Wis, Cold Subtype
    |
    Air|
    +2 Wis, +2 Cha, Air Subtype, 30 ft. groundspeed, 150 ft. flyspeed
    |
    Force|
    +2 Int, +2 Wis, no Subtype, 30 ft. groundspeed, 60 ft. burrow speed
    |
    Red|
    +2 Int, +2 Cha, Fire Subtype
    |
    Black|
    +2 Wis, +2 Cha, Water Subtype, 90 ft. flyspeed, 60 ft. swimspeed
    |
    Green|
    +2 Int, +2 Wis, Air Subtype
    |
    White|
    +2 Wis, +2 Cha, Cold Subtype
    |[/table]
    Last edited by WaylanderX; 2013-11-05 at 03:02 AM. Reason: Refining
    A swordmaster never backs off, I'll cut you to ribbons with my almighty sabre! CHAOS DANCE!!

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  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    Well...now the dragons aren't really dragons anymore, they're...made up from scratch stuff. Mystical creations that aren't really part of dragon ecology...

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    Isn't that a bit of a silly complaint Alex? I mean, you have to consider that any dragon is a fictional creature. Isn't going outside the bounds of the game as it is currently written the whole point of homebrew?

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    WaylanderX's Avatar

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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    Added a bit of fluff to the remade class feature, seen above.
    Also added movement mode modifications for the different dragon to make them more distinct.

    Well...now the dragons aren't really dragons anymore, they're...made up from scratch stuff. Mystical creations that aren't really part of dragon ecology...
    That depends all on the fluff around it. If you look only at the mechanics, you should not come to that conclusion. With the fluff I came up with, you train the dragon for a period of time, letting it come to odds with its shortcomings. Thats why you can determine the skills and feats of your mount. As for the type, that can just be attributed to your character's preference. If you do not agree, you can always roll randomly for type.

    If you have any solutions or other idea's that fit better, please let me know. Your comment as it is now does not let me know what is wrong precisely and what I can do to make it better, so if you have an idea, please post it here.
    A swordmaster never backs off, I'll cut you to ribbons with my almighty sabre! CHAOS DANCE!!

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  21. - Top - End - #21
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    Well...it might be fair to let the Rider, at ECL 13 (for Gold) or 12 (for Red) switch to the monster manual versions of those types of dragons. Once switched, of course, they can't switch back...

  22. - Top - End - #22
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    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    There is always the Dragon Rider Prestige Class from the Dragonlance Campaign Setting book. You might find this useful: http://dndtools.eu/classes/dragon-rider/

    Debby
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
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  23. - Top - End - #23
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    There's also (unsurprisingly) a Dragonrider PrC in the Draconomicon.

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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    I am not understanding the ban on arcane casting while riding a dragon.


    I enjoy the class and while you might consider it 'cliche' to me Fantasy is all about 'cliches'

    my fave thing.. the imbue weapon. thats pretty sweet. not only do you stab somebody with your spear or whatever but BANG!! lightning to the face ( in the case of a blue dragon for example) pretty rockin.

  25. - Top - End - #25
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    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    Why don't your dragons have skills? With 18 Int they should have 84 skill points.

    Also full attack line is missing damage. It should look like this.

    Full Attack: Bite +12 melee (2d6+4) and 2 claws +10 melee (1d8+2) and 2 wings +10 melee (1d6+2) and tail slap +10 melee (1d8+2)

    Debby
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Why don't your dragons have skills? With 18 Int they should have 84 skill points.

    Also full attack line is missing damage. It should look like this.

    Full Attack: Bite +12 melee (2d6+4) and 2 claws +10 melee (1d8+2) and 2 wings +10 melee (1d6+2) and tail slap +10 melee (1d8+2)

    Debby
    I think you didn't read the skill section correctly. The stat block may not show it, but they have the skill points, but the rider can choose how to distribute those skills, as written in the piece of text above the statblock. Besides, they do not always have 84 skillpoints because some dragon variants gain more int and therefore have slightly more skillpoints aswell (95).

    Nice catch on the damage though, I indeed forgot that.

    There's also (unsurprisingly) a Dragonrider PrC in the Draconomicon.

    There is always the Dragon Rider Prestige Class from the Dragonlance Campaign Setting book. You might find this useful: http://dndtools.eu/classes/dragon-rider/

    Debby
    As for why I did not take one of the official Dragon Rider classes, like I said, I did not find any that interested me alot. The one in the Draconomicon is total garbage in my eyes and while the Dragonlance one is a big improvement, I found that it was still lacking some interesting stuff.

    I am not understanding the ban on arcane casting while riding a dragon.


    I enjoy the class and while you might consider it 'cliche' to me Fantasy is all about 'cliches'

    my fave thing.. the imbue weapon. thats pretty sweet. not only do you stab somebody with your spear or whatever but BANG!! lightning to the face ( in the case of a blue dragon for example) pretty rockin.
    That is still the old version of the class feature, it recieved so much flak that I decided to redo it entirely, its in one of the comments above this one, it should stand out quite a bit (it got a bit text wally). Nice you like the Imbue class feature, it is also a favorite of mine (Huehuehue, sonic damage imbue ftw).

    But anyway, do you guys think I should just take the Dragon Cohort list (maybe without the -3 ECL for the mounts) and let my Dragon bond bonuses count on them? A stronger dragon would then lead to a decrease in effective dragon rider level in terms of the bonuses your mount gaines. An other idea I had was that I could limit the type of dragon you can get, which means if you get a White dragon (Very young), you can there on out only get a White Dragon (Young, Juvenile, and so on). The problem with this is that you only get a mount for medium characters very late in the game, which I want to avoid.

    Any ideas from you guys to solve this problem? Thanks in advance and big thanks for the ones who helped me out thus far.

    Edit:
    -Added the damage of the attacks (Ty Debby).
    -Clarified the Skill section on the Dragon stat block.
    -Added mention of stacking mount granting classes in the class feature.
    Last edited by WaylanderX; 2013-11-05 at 03:04 AM. Reason: Additions mentioned
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  27. - Top - End - #27
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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    But anyway, do you guys think I should just take the Dragon Cohort list (maybe without the -3 ECL for the mounts) and let my Dragon bond bonuses count on them? A stronger dragon would then lead to a decrease in effective dragon rider level in terms of the bonuses your mount gaines. An other idea I had was that I could limit the type of dragon you can get, which means if you get a White dragon (Very young), you can there on out only get a White Dragon (Young, Juvenile, and so on). The problem with this is that you only get a mount for medium characters very late in the game, which I want to avoid.

    Any ideas from you guys to solve this problem? Thanks in advance and big thanks for the ones who helped me out thus far.
    You really need to be careful with anything that would designate the dragon as a special mount or animal companion. There are several ways to abuse that, which I actually did in a game once. I had a halfling who rode a medium dragon supermount that was nigh unstoppable.

    My suggestion is to just grant it a dragon of around ECL 12-15ish. Then have the Dragon Bond class feature magically transform the dragon into a suitable mount via a pseudo-template that makes it size appropriate to serve as a mount without affecting it's HD or other abilities. You would, of course, adjust ability scores based on the size change table. From then on, the dragon only advances when the rider advances, similarly to an animal companion/special mount.

    Or, perhaps, instead of the pseudo-template, the PrC just magically makes the dragon grow to mount size when the rider needs to mount it, and it's the dragon's normal size at any other time, similar to He-Man's tiger buddy, Cringer/Battle Cat. That might actually be pretty cool.

    Alternatively, if you're willing to do a bit more work, you can allow the PrC to grant the Dragon Cohort feat and stipulate to ride the dragon, the dragon must have levels in the Dragon Companion PrC. The dragon is then effectively treated as an additional party members and levels up when the party does. You can then do all the nifty things you want on the dragon in the PrC the dragon takes. This is probably not the best option though, unless the dragon is being played by another player.
    Last edited by Rizban; 2013-11-05 at 03:22 AM.
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  28. - Top - End - #28
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    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Horses? I've got something MUCH better...(Dragon Rider Prc, 3.5, PEACH)

    Mental Maturity should be a Circumstance bonus not an untyped bonus. Circumstance bonuses stack unless they are from the same source. This would stack with any aging benefit the dragon would gain later.


    I'd be very concerned about the ability to call your dragon rather than summon it. This means that your dragon dies when killed. Called creatures are different from summoned creatures. And why would your dragon be on a different plane?

    A calling spell transports a creature from another plane to the plane you are on. The spell grants the creature the one-time ability to return to its plane of origin, although the spell may limit the circumstances under which this is possible. Creatures who are called actually die when they are killed; they do not disappear and reform, as do those brought by a summoning spell (see below). The duration of a calling spell is instantaneous, which means that the called creature canít be dispelled.
    So, what happens if your dragon dies?

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-11-05 at 08:18 AM.
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