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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Rage and Grace: The Havoc Knight (PEACH) 3.5 Base Class

    So, this was my first attempt at creating a base class. You could say it's a campaign specific class, but the class features are general enough to work in any campaign setting.

    Here's a quick click to the changelog
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFamilarRaven View Post
    So I took peoples suggestions and a reworked the class. Thematically it feels the same, but mechanically the class works a little differently, he;s the change log.
    So PEACH to your heart's content.


    Havoc Knight

    Rage and hatred, the rush of battle, the desire to obliterate all that stand in the way - many experience these feelings; few can harness them. The Havoc Knight is a maelstrom of fury unequaled. Some say a barbarian's unbridled rage to be the most fearsome thing ever witness. Those who say that, have never witnessed the murderess intent of a Havoc Knight. By manipulating the raw emotions of wrath, malice, defiance, and determination from within his very soul, the Havoc Knight strikes terror into the hearts of his enemies.

    Adventurers: Havoc Knights are often driven individuals, and make natural adventurers. Power and prestige is the most common motivator. Some Havoc Knights take up a cause they feel strongly for. A few orders of Havoc Knights exist, which send their members out on quests. For most Havoc Knights, wealth and luxury are considered a means to an end rather than the end goal. If nothing else, Havoc Knights will journey for status and respect.

    Characteristics: Havoc Knights devastate opponents in melee combat, whether they use two weapons or a single, double handed one. They can direct their malice towards an enemy to deal great physical harm upon them.
    Experienced Havoc Knights can overcome the natural protection of enemies and through shear force of will reduce the damage they receive.
    Undaunted wearing the heaviest armors and using the biggest weapons, Havoc Knights can deal damage and stay in the fight, or utilize guerrilla warfare.

    Alignment: A common misunderstanding is that Havoc Knights are wild and destructive. And while many derive pleasure from wide-spread chaos and suffering, it requires strict discipline and training to become a Havoc Knight, and therefore, Havoc Knights may not be chaotic, and tend towards law. It is a rare thing to encounter a benevolent Havoc Knight. The best of the Havoc Knights typically follow a cause, a country or the Tribunal, and use their hatred of evil as their weapon. Evil and neutral Havoc Knights are far more common, owing to the appreciation of hatred and violence necessary to be a Havoc Knight.

    Religion: Evil Havoc Knights will worship Malox as their patron, believing that since he is the god of hate, he will increase their power. Neutral Havoc Knights tend to not worship any particular god, but may still pay occasional homage to Malox. The rare, good aligned Havoc Knights are almost always a patron of Jovaan.

    Backgrounds: The first Havoc Knights were taught by devils, hoping that this power would spread evil across the mortal plane. Today, the tradition of Havoc Knights has spread all over the world. Regardless of the the background, becoming a Havoc Knight is something that must be trained, not gained naturally, (although some have more natural talent than others). Individuals might join an order of Havoc Knights, or perhaps become an apprentice of a wondering master. Some armies have a few Havoc Knight corps, and make use of their destructive force in battle. Rarely, devils will impart the talent to certain mortals they deem fit enough to harness the power.

    Races: Velmera (Drow) are the most common Havoc Knights. Legend states that they were even the first. Among the other races, Humans, with their ambition, often succeed as Havoc Knights. Venmera (Wood elves), too, find the role suitable, (especially followers of Malox). Belial (Demon fox race) Havoc Knights are common as well, due to their heritage. Vikzalxi (obligatory cat race), Halflings and Gnomes are too jovial and find it difficult to gather the focus needed to be a Havoc Knight. Dwarves, Doronar (Humanoid serpents) and Maltora (Minotaur) tend to be too stoic. Orcs prefer the reckless rage of a Barbarian rather than the calculated murder of a Havoc Knight.

    Other Classes: Havoc Knights have no particular distaste for any other class. However, Paladins are often at odds with a Havoc Knight. Certain Clerics and Druids too, often clash with a Havoc Knight's ideals. But a Havoc Knight is usually willing to work with others so long as it serves his ends. A Havoc Knight relies heavily on rogues for stealth, and wizards or sorcerers for spells. Physically not as tough, the Havoc Knight also appreciates a fighter or a barbarian to distract the enemy while he annihilates his foes.

    Role: The Havoc Knight serves best as a melee combatant. They are adept at dealing massive amount of damage with a single touch. Havoc Knights typically dual wield or focuses on a two handed weapon, allowing for many attacks or heavy strikes. In a social situation, a Havoc Knight makes an imposing figure and can intimidate many into giving the party what they want.

    GAME RULE INFORMATION
    Havoc Knights have the following game statistics.

    Abilities: Strength serves an important role for Havoc Knights because it allows them to hit harder and more often. Charisma is almost equally important, because it determines the power of certain class features. Having a high constitution is also something to be considered, as it may make up for the below average hit dice for a melee class.

    Alignment: Any non-chaotic

    Hit Dice: d8

    Starting Gold: 6d4x10 (150)

    CLASS SKILLS
    Bluff (CHA), Climb (STR), Craft (INT), Intimidate (CHA), Jump (STR), Knowledge [Any 1, plus Planes and Religion] (INT), Listen (WIS), Profession (WIS), Spot (WIS), Sense Motive (WIS), Swim (STR).
    Skill Points at 1st Level (4 + Int modifier) x 4
    Skill Points Per Level 4 + Int modifier

    Table 1-1 The Havoc Knight

    Level Base Attack bonus Fortitude Save Reflex save Will Save Special
    1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Focus Points, Malice Touch
    2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Path of Destruction
    3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Undaunted Movement
    4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Exquisite Focus, Unstoppable Onslaught (3)
    5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Desire
    6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +5 Reaper, Undying Resolve
    7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +5 Improved Path of Destruction
    8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +6 Unstoppable Onslaught (6)
    9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +6 Controlled Malice
    10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +7 Desire
    11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +7 Mettle
    12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +8 Unstoppable Onslaught (9)
    13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +8 Bloody Reaper
    14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +9 Path of Destruction Mastery
    15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +9 Desire
    16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +10 Unstoppable Onslaught (12)
    17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Grim Reaper
    18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Path of Obliteration
    19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Frightening Presence
    20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Desire, Unstoppable Onslaught (15), Wrath Unleashed

    Class Features
    All of the following are the class features for the Havoc Knight.

    Armor and Weapon Proficiency: Havoc Knights are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and all armor, (but not shields).

    Focus Points SU): Beginning at 1st level, the Havoc Knight has a pool of focus points (here after referred to as FP) which are spent in order to use and augment certain Class Features. The amount of FP available to a Havoc Knight per day is equal to 1/2 his class level + his CHA mod (if any). He may spend no more more than 4 FP in any one round. FP can only be recovered after a full rest.

    Malice Touch (SU): Starting at level one, for 1 FP, a Havoc Knight may focus all of his hatred and rage into the palm of his hand. He may make a touch attack against anyone adjacent to him. If successful, the target must succeed a fortitude save DC of 10 + ½ the Havoc Knights class level + his Charisma Modifier (if any). If successful the target is dealt 1/4 the Havoc Knight’s class level (minimum of 1) x charisma modifier in damage. However, the negative energy coursing through the Havoc Knight's hand leaves it withered for 1d6 rounds after, causing a -2 penalty to attack rolls for the duration. Upon a successful save the target only takes half damage.
    This ability is considered negative energy, and therefore heals undead and is useless against effects that cancel negative energy, such as Deathward. (See Unstoppable Onslaught).
    In addition, Havoc Knights with the Exquisite Focus Class Feature, can spend FP to augment this ability. By spending 1 addition FP, they can double the Damage, 2 additional FP, they can triple the damage, and finally, by spending 4 FP total, they can quadruple the damage.

    Path Of Destruction (EX): At 2nd level a Havoc Knight must choose with what method he will use to crush his enemies. A Havoc Knight may choose the path of two handed weapons or that or dual wielding. These choices affect the class feature, but in no way limit his selection of feats or special abilities available to the Havoc Knight in any way.
    Dual Wielding: At 2nd level, a Havoc Knight gains the Two Weapon Fighting feat as a bonus feat, even if he doesn't meet the normal requirements. In Addition He gains the Calculated Strikes Class Feature
    At 7th level, the Havoc Knight receives the Improved Two Weapon Fighting feat, as a bonus feat, even though he may not meet the prerequisites for the feat. In addition, the Havoc Knight can spend 2 FP to gain an additional attack of Opportunity, and 4 FP to gain two. the Havoc Knight can use one of these additional Attacks of Opportunity to attack the same target again.
    At 14th level, a Havoc Knight gains the Greater Two Weapon Fighting feat, even though he may not meet the prerequisites for the feat. And can add 1/2 his CHA mod (if any) to his Calculated Strikes, and any attack rolls made when making an Attack of Opportunity using FP.
    Two Handed: At 2nd level, a Havoc Knight receives the Weapon Focus, and Weapon Specialization as bonus feats, even though he may not meet the prerequisites of the feats. The feats gained must correspond with a two-handed weapon, and both feats must be applied to the same weapon.
    In addition, he gains the Rage Strike Class feature, provided he is wielding a two-handed weapon.
    At 7th level a Havoc Knight receives Greater Weapon Focus as a bonus feat, even though he may not meet the prerequisites of the feat. This feat must apply to the same weapon he chose for his Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization. In addition, his Rage Strike becomes even deadlier. If a creature fails its save against rage strike, the creature now bleeds for 3 rounds. The creature takes damage equal to the Havoc Knight's STR mod (Minimum of 1) every round until the duration is up. The Havoc Knight can not cause the same target to bleed again until the bleeding stops. Creatures immune to Sneak Attack are immune to the bleed effect.
    At 14th level, a Havoc Knight receives Greater Weapon Specialization as a bonus feat, even though he may not meet the prerequisites of the feat. In addition, he may now add 1/2 his CHA mod (if any) to damage rolls when using two-handed weapons

    Calculated Strikes EX): As part of the Duel-Wielding Path of Destruction, the Havoc Knight can spend 2 FP during an attack, which allows the Havoc Knight to perform two of the following combat maneuvers on the same attack. The Havoc Knight can choose between a Trip, Feint, Disarm, Overrun or Bullrush attempt without incurring an attack of opportunity. Normal rules apply for these checks. By spending 4 FP, he can perform 4 of the previous combat maneuvers. 2 on the first strike and 2 on the second. However these at a -4 penalty to each. The havoc Knight may only perform this ability when duel wielding.

    Rage Strike (SU): As part of the Two-handed Path of Destruction, the Havoc Knight gains the ability of Rage Strike. This ability allows the havoc Knight to manifest his Malice touch into his weapon, provided he is using a two-handed weapon. For 2 FP, he adds his tier 1 Malice touch, for 4 FP, he can add tier 2 malice Touch to his weapon as extra damage. Until the Havoc Knight learns Controlled Malice, he still takes the regular penalties for using Malice Touch. This damage is not multiplied in the case of the case of a critical hit.
    The Enemy is still entitled to saving throws to resist the additional as if affected by Malice Touch. And the target is not affect by the Overwhelming Force Class Feature.

    Undaunted Movement (EX): Starting at 3rd level, medium and heavy armors pose no movement penalty to the Havoc Knight.

    Unstoppable Onslaught (EX): Starting at 4th level, a Havoc Knight can bypass part of the damage reduction or energy resistance a creature may have, even if they do not use the appropriate damage or material. In addition, Malice Touch now deals damage to undead, (including the Havoc Knight, if he is undead), and can bypass negative energy immunities, provided that the level of the Havoc Knight equals or exceeds the hitdice of the undead or caster level. Even still, Malice Touch will only deal half as much damage as it normally would in these cases.
    At 4th level a Havoc Knight can bypass 3 points of DR or energy resistance. This improves by 3 every 4 levels up to level 20.

    Exquisite Focus EX): The Havoc Knight may now expand additional FP to augment certain Class features. (See individual Features for Details). Certain class features reference abilities such as Malice touch in tiers. Each tier represents the potency of the ability in terms of FP expended. For instance, tier 1 Malice Touch is simply a normal Malice Touch, while tier 2 is considered to the next step up (2 FP expended).

    Desire: What truly sets the Havoc Knight apart from others is his ability to manifest his Will into reality. Called Desires, these abilities vary from Havoc Knight to Havoc Knight. The Havoc Knight gains one Desire at 5th level, and another Desire every 5 levels thereafter. The Havoc Knight may choose any Desire he meets the level requirement for, and is not limited to selecting Desires of the same level, (i.e. at level 10 he can choose another 5th level Desire). Unless otherwise stated, all Desires are considered standard actions.

    If the Havoc Knight chooses, he may instead gain a bonus feat, as a fighter, instead of gaining a Desire. He must still meet all the prerequisites of the feat.

    Spoiler
    Show

    5th Level Desires


    Overwhelming Force SU): The Havoc Knight's Malice touch now packs a tremendous amount of force. Creatures that fail their saves against Malice Touch are now knocked prone, in addition to the damage they receive.
    The knockdown effect does not affect creatures 2 size categories larger than the Havoc Knight, but other features of this ability still do. (See below)
    At 10th level, this ability upgrades to Overwhelming Power, which causes creatures affected by Overwhelming Force to be stunned for 1 round, in addition to being knocked down.
    By 15th level, this ability reaches it's peak, making the Havoc Knight a battle field tyrant. Creatures are no longer stunned, but now are paralyzed for 1d4, after being knocked down.

    Black Chains SU): The Havoc Knight manifests dark chains around his weapon, binding it to him. This has two purposes. The first, it allows the Havoc Knight to launch his weapon at a distant opponent, with no penalty to throwing melee weapons. The second, is that it allows the Havoc Knight to recall his weapon to his hand, even after throwing it or having been disarmed.
    The range of Black Chains is 15ft at 5th level, 30ft at 10th level and 45ft at 15th level. He may only use this ability once per round (only one attack), but if he is dual wielding he may use it with both weapons.
    This ability only applies to the Havoc Knight's weapons, he may not use this ability to disarm an opponent, or pick up any other weapon off the ground. And he may not augment the attack with FP. If the Havoc Knight hits with a piercing weapon, he may attempt a grapple as a free action, if successful, he pulls his target in a straight line to the space in front of him.

    Blinding Fury SU): Once per day, the Havoc Knight can lash out in fury, blinding a creature. This ability function exactly like the Blindness/Deafness spell, except that it can only cause blindness, and the effect only lasts 5 rounds. The DC to resist the effect is equal to 10 + 1/2 The Havoc Knight's class levels + the CHA modifier of the Havoc Knight. This ability increases to 2/day at 10th level and 3/day at 15th level.

    10th Level Desires


    No Escape SU): Once per day, as a move action, the Havoc Knight may Shadow Jump up to 60ft. This increases to 2/day at 15th level and 3/day at 20th level.

    Thy Will be Done EX): Once per day, the Havoc Knight can crush the will of an opponent, making them the Havoc Knight's servant. This ability functions like the Dominate Person spell, except that it lasts only 3 rounds. The DC to resist the effect is equal to 10 + the Havoc Knight's class levls + the CHA modifier of the Havoc Knight. This ability increases to 2/day at 15th level, and 3/day at 20th level.
    Whether or not the target succeeds his saving throw or not, the Havoc Knight can not affect the same target twice with this ability per 24 hours.

    "I'll Never Die" EX): Once per day, as a move action, the Havoc Knight may speed up his regular healing process. He regains hitpoints equal to his Havoc Knight level plus his CHA modifier (if any). At 15th level this increases to 2/day and finally 3/day at 20th level.

    15th Level Desires


    Dominating Grasp SU): Once per day, the Havoc Knight summons forth spectral hands to grapple a single target. This ability functions like the spell Grasping Hand. Use the Havoc Knight's class level to determine caster level and his CHA modifier in order to determine the total grapple bonus. The hand only lasts 5 rounds, and it only attempts grapples on one target. By 20th level, the hands summoned match the size category of the creature meant to be grappled, if the Havoc Knight so wishes.

    Divide and Conquer SU): Once per day, the Havoc Knight can summon a double of himself. The double is an illusion but has a unique set of properties. The illusion can be dis-believed with a successful Will save (DC = 10 + 1/2 the Havoc Knight's class levels + CHA modifier). The illusion acts as the Havoc Knight directs it (telepathically), and can move and make attacks as he can, but it can not manipulate objects, (opening doors, picking up chairs etc), or perform any class features of the Havoc Knight (Malice Touch, Reaper etc). All damage done by the illusion to a creature is halved, and the illusion can not perform critical hits. The illusion has 1/4 the the total Hitpoints the Havoc Knight has, and can be dispelled by creatures "killing it". It has an AC equal to the touch AC of the Havoc Knight. At 20th level, the Havoc Knight can summon two illusions.

    Master Plan SU): Once per day, the Havoc Knight can envision victory and make it so. All allies, (including the Havoc Knight), receive a +5 insight bonus to any one roll (except damage) they make in a round. The effect lasts a number of rounds equal to 1/2 the CHA modifier of the Havoc Knight (minimum of 1). The affected creatures must declare they are using this bonus before they roll. This ability increases to 2/day at 20th level.

    20th Level Desires


    The Calm After the Storm EX): Once per day, the Havoc Knight can restore all of his FP without having to take a full rest. This requires 1 minute of meditation.

    Omnipotent Essence SU): Once per day, the Havoc Knight can manifest himself on another plane of existence. He leaves whatever plane he was originally on, and reforms with all the equipment he was carrying on the plane he manifests himself to. The Havoc Knight can also use this ability as the Teleport spell, except the Havoc Knight can only teleport himself. The Caster Level equals the Havoc Knight's class levels.

    Deadly Desire SU): Once per day, the Havoc Knight can utilize his lethal intent towards one target. The target must succeed a Will save (DC = 10 + 1/2 Havoc Knight Class levels + CHA modifier) or be subjected to the adverse effects of this ability. If the save is not successful, then the subject is entitled to a Fortitude save (same DC). If the target succeeds, they take 15d6 points of negative energy damage, if not, they explode, instantly killing the target and damaging any creature within 10ft for 10d6 point of force damage. This ability can kill undead, but they are not affected by the negative energy damage his they succeed their fortitude save.



    Reaper (EX): By 6th level, the Havoc Knight has become the eye of the storm a midst combat. He can make a charge attack as a full action and make a single attack against any enemy he passes at his full attack bonus. If an enemy stands in his way, he can make an over-run attempt as part of the charge and in addition to his attack. If successful, the charge continues. A failed attempt ends the charge. The charge provokes all of the normal attacks of opportunity as a regular charge attack. Each additional attack during Reaper incurs a stacking -2 penalty to attack rolls.

    Undying Resolve (SU): The Havoc Knight is a fierce and determined combatant. Starting at 6th level, a Havoc Knight can manifest his will to live into protection. As a swift action, the Havoc Knight can spend 1 FP in order to gain of 5 temporary hitpoints. For every additional point he spends, it increases the temporary hitpoints he gains by by 5 (Up to a maximum of 20 with 4 FP). The effect lasts for 5 rounds, or until the overall damage taken exceeds the temporary health gained.


    Controlled Malice (SU): At 9th level, the Havoc Knight has mastered the dispersal of negative energy when using Malice Touch, and no longer suffers the penalty to attack rolls.


    Mettle (EX): At 11th level and higher, a Havoc Knight can resist magical and unusual attacks with great willpower or fortitude. If he makes a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), he instead completely negates the effect. An unconscious or sleeping Havoc Knight does not gain the benefit of mettle.


    Bloody Reaper (SU): Pain is in the mind, body and soul, and by 13th level the Havoc Knight truly grasps this. As part of his reaper charge, the Havoc Knight can harness his pain to destroy his enemies. If the Havoc Knight takes damage while performing a reaper charge, he may add half of the damage he received to his next attack. However, he chooses not to, the extra damage builds up until he releases it on his unfortunate foe. The extra damage can never exceed the Havoc Knight's level x 2, any excess damage is wasted.

    Example, Zaren uses Reaper, while charging, he takes 24 damage from an attack of opportunity, so he now can add another 12 damage to his next attack. However, his target is not the zombie that hit him, but the cleric controlling them, so he rushes to the zombie blocking his path to the cleric. The zombie hits him with another attack of opportunity and deals a critical hit for another 30 damage, for a total of 54 damage taken that round (27 additional damage). Zaren successfully overruns the zombie and has a clear path to his target. The cleric, not expecting Zaren, misses his attack of opportunity on Zaren, and Zaren unleashes Bloody Reaper onto his hapless foe. However at this time, Zaren is only level 13, and can only deal an additional 26 points of damage, rather than the 27.

    In addition, a Havoc Knight can spend 4 FP to do one of the following:
    -Use tier 1 Rage Strike on one opponent
    -Attack one opponent with off-hand weapon, adding half of the bloody reaper damage to the attack.

    Path of Obliteration (EX): By 18th level, the Havoc Knight has mastered his chosen path of destruction to epic proportions and receives the following benefits based on his path.
    Dual Wielding: The Havoc Knight receives the Perfect Two Weapon Fighting feat as a bonus feat, even though he certainly does not meet the requirements for it. He can now also add his full CHA modifier as a bonus to attack when performing an Attack of opportunity using FP.
    Two handed Weapon: The Havoc Knight receives the Wield Oversized Weapon feat, even though he certainly does not meet the requirements for it. In addition, the Havoc Knight now adds his full CHA modofoer to damage rolls..

    Grim Reaper (EX): By 18th level the Havoc Knight has mastered weaving through enemy lines. He no longer has to charge in a straight line, but still must be able to see his target before making the charge.

    Frightening Presence EX): by 19th level, the Havoc Knight has become a terror to behold on the field of battle. Enemies within 20ft of the Havoc Knight must succeed a WILL save (DC = 1/2 Havoc Knight levels + CHA Mod) or be shaken while within the area of effect. Those who fail their saves by 10 or more are panicked. The Havoc Knight can suppress or resume this ability at will.

    Wrath Unleashed (SU): At level 20, the Havoc Knight becomes a walking bomb. By expending the 2 FP, he can create an explosion of negative energy centered around him in a 20ft radius. This ability, though impressive, takes its toll on the Havoc Knight. All creatures caught within the area of effect, (with the exception of the Havoc Knight), are treated as if they had been targeted by the Havoc Knight's tier 1 Malice Touch ability. (The Overwhelming Force Desire applies to this ability, provided the Havoc Knight chose the Desire, however only the knockdown applies, not the paralyses).

    The incredible energy released however, rips the Havoc Knight's flesh. He suffers damage equal to half of the damage dealt. This damage can not be resisted by any means.

    By spending 4 FP, he can increase the damage to tier 2 malice touch. by doing this, the affected creatures are also subject to the paralyses effect of Overwhelming Force, provided the Havoc Knight chose the Desire.

    Ex-Havoc Knights: If any Havoc Knight becomes chaotic, they lose all the focus necessary to be a Havoc Knight. They can no longer progress further in the class, and lose all class features, (except feats, and weapon/armor proficiency), until they cease to be chaotic.


    Havoc Knight feats
    Spoiler
    Show

    Well of Rage
    Prerequisite: focus Points
    Benefit; Increase the daily amount of focus Points you have by 2

    (More to come, this is a WiP, if you have suggestions please share.)


    So there you have it. Once again, please critique my work and let me know if theres things i should add/subtract or change! Thanks in advance
    Last edited by TheFamilarRaven; 2014-05-28 at 01:47 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Default Re: Rage and Grace: The Havoc Knight (PEACH) 3.5 Base Class

    A twentieth level Havoc Knight could easily be doing 300-400 damage with a single Malice Touch (also with a DC 1 higher than a lv 9 spell of a sorc with the same Cha), which kinda puts most save-or-damage effects to shame. An undead havoc knight would be horrificaly powerful with that (undead also get HP off their Cha, so you could get about 300 bonus HP and be able to heal all of them at once).

    Cha to damage with 2H weapons also allows you to ramp up damage - useful for uberchargers or full-round killers.

    What action is it to use Undying Resolve and how often can you do so?

    Reaper allows you to make 25 attacks in one round. More with a spiked chain.

    Bloody Reaper can make a truly horrific Ubercharger.

    Spoiler: Explanation
    Show
    Zaren passes his friends Kayros, Morcah and Talos during his charge. Due to their exceptional fighting skills and reach weapons, they inflict around 300 damage on him between them by making attacks of opportunity on their own ally, leaving him with about 100 hit points (because we built him undead and stacked Cha). He then rushes past an opposing fighter, allowing him to deal a little damage with his attack of opportunity, before dealing 2d4 + (1.5*STR) + CHA + level + (1/2*level*CHA) + 150 damage, along with any from the weapon's magical effects, to the poor fighter, who is dead long before hitting the ground. He then swings his spiked chain at the opposing wizard, dealing the same damage less the Rage Strike, which remains enough to kill the wizard. He slices through the unfortunate bard before finishing his combo with a devastating blow to the opposing cleric, who (due to his high HD and racial CON bonus) lives.

    Then Kayros takes his turn...


    Path of Obliteration is not actually great for our 2H Havoc Knight, Wield Oversize Weapon just increasing the damage die a bit. Still, extra damage is extra damage.

    Grim Reaper makes it even easier to pull off the Bloody Reaper thing.

    Wrath Unleashed affects the Havoc Knight himself within the explosion. Our undead havoc knight is laughing, while our living one isn't living for very long. Assuming that wasn't meant to happen, it's basically license to kill anyone within 20 ft who doesn't have about 5 times as much health as you.

    Spoiler: Explanation
    Show
    Kayros, being a relatively pathetic Havoc Knight 20, has a Charisma of 30 - started with 18, gained 5 by level advancement, read a Tome of Leadership and Influence +1 and is wearing a Headband of Alluring Charisma +6. This gives him 303 hit points, due to being undead.

    Kallen has a constitution of 40, due to a wish spell and magic items galore. Being as he is a barbarian 10/living monolith 10 (because I'm letting have PF classes just to prove a point), he has an impressive 455 hit points and a crazy fortitude save to boot.

    Kayros gets the jump on Kallen, and is 20 feet away during the surprise round. To be sure of killing Kallen, he has to sacrifice 465, times 2 (for the passed fortitude save) divided by 10 (for the charisma mod) = 94 hit points. And if Kallen's friends are all surrounding Kayros? They're dead too.


    Your formula for increasing the radius is weird, and potentially allows people to heal by using it if they have a negative Cha mod. I can't see punishing players for having their primary stat high is going to work.

    Also, a Havoc Knight who can't be chaotic feels... odd. The whole class reads as chaotic evil to me.

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    Default Re: Rage and Grace: The Havoc Knight (PEACH) 3.5 Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Also, a Havoc Knight who can't be chaotic feels... odd. The whole class reads as chaotic evil to me.
    I don't know, the whole "controlled chaos" thing makes sense to me at least. They must be highly disciplined to channel that rage so strongly.

    As for critiques, Jorm seems to have covered most of it. I will say: the two-handed path is...not at all two-hander specific. There's nothing in it that grants something that only applies to two-handed weapons, except for adding Cha to damage. On the other hand, the two-weapon fighting path gives nothing but dual-wield specific feats. Just one more thing: they should have some sort of fear aura. It would make a lot of sense: Hyper raging terrifying bringer of death... yeah, fear aura makes sense here. The description even implies that their fury is the most fearsome thing ever witnessed.
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    Default Re: Rage and Grace: The Havoc Knight (PEACH) 3.5 Base Class

    In 3.5, there are no playable Undead that get Cha to HP.

    If the thread said 3.P or Pathfinder, you'd be right, but it says 3.5, so...
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    Default Re: Rage and Grace: The Havoc Knight (PEACH) 3.5 Base Class

    Soooooo, the class is a little unbalanced?

    That was my fear, the problem is I LIKE all of the class abilities, mechanic wise and flavor wise. Looks like I'll have to do a little re working.

    I'll probably tone Malice Touch down.
    If you can provide the build which gives the Havoc Knight 300 damage on a malice touch at lvl 20 that'd be wonderful (my players won't know what hit them) I mean, so I can avoid problems like that ... because doing the numbers in my head, I'm looking at 200 damage at level 20 (FORT save half damage), which can be done by a Cleric to multiple target (mass harm).
    -Although to play devil's advocate to that point, a melee class PROBABLY shouldn't give a caster class a run for their money.

    although it took me awhile to stop myself from laughing at the poor group of adventurers in Jorm's example, who ran across Zaren (Funny enough, in my campaign world, Zaren isn't even a Havoc Knight, he's a fighter, it's just an easier to pronounce name than the other one I had originally put there).
    I should also note that that example is a very extreme example

    I think Jorm's best point is that this class is becomes too good when the Havoc Knight is undead.

    Also, in regards to the two weapon tree, if you have any suggestions for alternatives abilities that would be great.

    Also, fear aura makes sense, dunno why I didn't think of that.

    As far as the class not being restricted to CE, chalk it up to DM preference. it makes sense to me why they can't be chaotic, but if any other DM who wants to adapt this class thinks other-wise, let them change it. Badda-bing, problem solved.
    Last edited by TheFamilarRaven; 2013-09-26 at 10:01 PM.
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    Default Re: Rage and Grace: The Havoc Knight (PEACH) 3.5 Base Class

    So the first lesson of class design is that there is a big difference between the power level of a class and the Tier.

    Power level is mostly about raw numbers - how much damage you can deal, how high your AC and Saves and other defenses are, what effects you can impose, your ability to gain additional actions or deny enemies their normal actions (action advantage and battlefield control).

    Tier is about your ability to be useful in different roles, which is generally determined by how many different resources you have access to, and how easily you swap between those options. Are you useful in different types of combats against different types of enemies? Are you useful outside of combat for roleplaying and exploration encounters? How many different situations? How easily can switch from one role to another? Can you actively reshape the scope of the game with your abilities (divination, opened ended Summons, altering reality, etc) or are you limited to reacting to what the DM puts in front of you?

    In 3.5/PF, there is no right or wrong answer to what a class should be. You just need to decide what type of game this class will be playing in, and balance the class accordingly. Balancing both power and tier is actually fairly easy, as long as you're aware of the issues involved.

    To balance the power level, pick a class that you want to use as a benchmark, and then have the all the raw numbers roughly match.

    To balance the Tier, you just need to decide what Tier you want to be. Tier 1-2 have access to an open ended list of abilities which cover every contingency, that progress fully with the class (a 17thish level character should have access to 9th-ish level spells/powers/maneuvers/etc), which they can change at least once per day. Tier 3 has a closed list of abilities which cover several different contingencies, which provides at least 3/4 progression with the class, which they can change at least once per day. Tier 4 has a closed list of abilities which cover a small number of contingencies, with a set progression that doesn't necessarily get better as you gain levels (you get a bonus feat at first level, you get an equally useful/weak bonus feat at 18th level), that are more or less fixed in place once chosen.

    Currently, your Havoc Knight looks like it's uber powerful, but it's Tier 4. It has ridiculously high numbers, but has very limited options, and it doesn't have any system of powers/abilities that allows it to choose new options at least once per day.

    What power level and Tier are you aiming for? Do you have an example of a class or homebrew class you'd like to use as a benchmark? Have you looked at other Knight fixes by Playgrounders you respect?

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    Default Re: Rage and Grace: The Havoc Knight (PEACH) 3.5 Base Class

    I love the fluff of malice touch, although it really needs more daily uses, especially since a havoc knight can spend those uses on other things. Slight formatting issues with commas and periods:

    This ability is considered negative energy, and therefore heals undead and is useless against effects that cancel negative energy, such as Deathward. Extra period (See Unstoppable Onslaught). This ability can be used twice per day 10th level . three times per day at level 20.
    Can Unstoppable Onslaught still allos Malice Touch to heal undead if the havoc knight chooses to?

    Undying Resolve (SU): The Havoc Knight is a fierce and determined combatant. Starting at 6th level, once per day a Havoc Knight can manifest his will to live into protection. The Havoc Knight is treated as having DR of 10/- for five rounds. If the havoc Knight is struck by any sort of attack the damage is negated and the effect ends. At 12th level, the Havoc Knight can be struck twice before the effect ends. At 18th Level, the Havoc Knight can be struck three times before the effect ends. Whether or not the Havoc Knight is hit or not, Undying resolves ends 5 rounds later. The Havoc Knight must announce he is using Undying Resolve at the beginning of his turn.
    This ability reads that no attack deals damage regardless, although I believe you meant for it to only negate DR 10/- worth of damage/

    Reaper can end up being quite a lot of attacks. Personally, I'd impose an increasing -2 penalty on each attack roll he makes.

    So for Wrath Unleased, no save or attack roll, right? It's not really OP since the havoc knight takes the damage too, just wanted to make sure this was intended.

    Also, Frightening Presence is in the table but isn't described anywhere. May want to clarify with the Path of Destruction chain, just to prevent any confusion.
    Last edited by Lappy9001; 2013-09-27 at 12:54 PM.

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    Default Re: Rage and Grace: The Havoc Knight (PEACH) 3.5 Base Class

    Thanks for the feedback... Also, the confusion with some of the abilities (Like frightening Presence, rage strike) is because I started t edit, then got sleepy, and logged off without adding a change log
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    Default Re: Rage and Grace: The Havoc Knight (PEACH) 3.5 Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFamilarRaven View Post
    If you can provide the build which gives the Havoc Knight 300 damage on a malice touch at lvl 20 that'd be wonderful.
    So, the damage you're doing is 20 times your CHA mod, meaning you need a CHA mod of 15, so your CHA has to be 40. By putting 18 to start and getting a race with +2 CHA, 5 for leveling up and 5 for a Wizard wishing for it, you have 30. Headband of CHA +6 and the Tome of Leadership and Influence +4 will give you 40 CHA doing 300 damage (Will DC 35 half). All of this is core except for the Charismatic race. Our friend the Wizard can also bump your CHA up by another 4 with a second level spell (If he is a wizard, he can prepare the spell because he's prepared; if he's actually a sorcerer he knows it anyway because it raises his PCS), giving us something around the 42-44 mark for 320-340 damage. (Will DC 36-37 half).

    It's a foregone conclusion that only a cleric or possibly monk is making that save (A sorcerer/wizard/other will high class with 12 basic, +2 for wisdom and +2 from iron will cannot actually pass a DC 37 will save. Even our cleric probably only has +8-10 from wisdom and probably no iron will, making it at best unlikely that he passes it anyway.) Even if you're immune to negative energy damage you're taking 160-170 damage with a barely-passable will save to halve the damage.
    Last edited by Jormengand; 2013-09-27 at 02:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Rage and Grace: The Havoc Knight (PEACH) 3.5 Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFamilarRaven View Post
    Thanks for the feedback... Also, the confusion with some of the abilities (Like frightening Presence, rage strike) is because I started t edit, then got sleepy, and logged off without adding a change log
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    Default Re: Rage and Grace: The Havoc Knight (PEACH) 3.5 Base Class

    Jormengand...

    First of all, the Tome doesn't stack with the ability bonus from Wish.

    Headband of Charisma doesn't stack with Eagle's Splendor.

    The highest bonus you can get in Core is 34, for a +12 modifier.

    Now, consider the following:

    In 3.5, being Undead does not give you Cha to HP. I just want to stress this.

    Those bonuses to Charisma are expensive; this class only uses them for Malice Touch anyway, which is 3/day at 20th level.

    The base save DC for 9th level spells are rather low; if you play a Star Elf Havoc Knight 20, you can deal 260 damage, with a DC 33 save for half damage.

    And that save certainly isn't impossible to make.

    In all, I'd say that this class is actually really damn weak. Anyone can deal massive amounts of damage; this class gets to use their big amazing awesome feature... 3/day at 20th level.

    The only other real "unique" stuff you get is the Reaper line... which starts much too late to be of any real use.

    I'd suggest making Malice Touch at-will and reduce the damage to, I don't know, Charisma modifier * (Your level + 3)/4. Then throw in a separate feature that allows you to multiply the damage a limited number of times per day.

    Like, I don't know, give them a pool of "Malice Points" equal to half their class level; then let them spend malice points to boost damage.

    For example, 1 malice point could double damage, 2 could triple it, and 3 could quadruple it. You could fuel Undying Resolve off the same pool, and have Rage Strike let you spend points to add your Malice damage to an attack.

    Just cap the number of points that can be spent in one round to 3, and you essentially have a more versatile version of what you already have.
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    Default Re: Rage and Grace: The Havoc Knight (PEACH) 3.5 Base Class

    So I took peoples suggestions and a reworked the class. Thematically it feels the same, but mechanically the class works a little differently, he;s the change log.

    Quick click to the class
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFamilarRaven View Post
    Havoc Knight

    -added jump to class skills
    -Added a Focus Point system which are spent to use and augment class features.
    -Added Rage Strike and calculated Strikes to their respective Path of destruction in order to add variety to the different paths.
    Two handed weapons: Heavy damage
    Duel Wielding: Tactical control
    -Moved several abilities around in terms of progression, example: Reaper is available earlier
    -Undying Resolve grants temporary HP instead of DR, becuase the way I had it set up made it work like temporary HP to begin with.
    - Added damage caps to certain Class Features so we can avoid the whole 150000 damage in one attack fiasco
    -Started a feat spoiler as a WiP
    -Added the Desire class feature to add more customization to the class, as well as some utility.


    Still needs feedback to help make this an awesome, and balanced class. PEACH!!!

    Thank you for previous suggestions and thanks in advance for future ones

    I still need feedback
    Last edited by TheFamilarRaven; 2013-10-03 at 11:35 PM.
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    Default Re: Rage and Grace: The Havoc Knight (PEACH) 3.5 Base Class

    The main thing I see is that you aren't providing much incentive to take the two-weapon fighting tree. Getting the whole chain for free is nice, but the two-handed tree gets just as good of stuff; which is not enough to counteract the natural superiority of a two-handed weapon. I would suggest adding some source of giving bonus damage to all attacks in a round or adding different versions of the special attacks that the character can do with both weapons at once.

    I'm also not entirely happy with having a non-supernatural thing like the focus points being daily, even though there is a precedent with the Barbarian's rage, and would suggest having them regenerate when not in combat. That seems more in keeping with the mostly mundane feel of the class and would also give them some more staying power by being able to get back some of their resources with a short rest.
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    Default Re: Rage and Grace: The Havoc Knight (PEACH) 3.5 Base Class

    Just a minor nit pick, you should probably explicitly say that calculated strikes only works when dual wielding. Also, like Iamyourking said, the two-weapon tree could use a buff. Also, I feel like something more two-hander specific than just weapon focus/specialization should be in the two-hander tree. Maybe something like, at 7th level, add 1/4 of your weapon's weight to your attack rolls, or something like that. As it stands, a havoc knight could use a longsword and a shield and get all of those feats. It would make them sacrifice their ability to rage strike, but now they have a shield, which gives them added defense. If you're OK with that, then fine. Just feel like that's probably not something you intended to happen.
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    cool Re: Rage and Grace: The Havoc Knight (PEACH) 3.5 Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Plato Play-Doh View Post
    Just a minor nit pick, you should probably explicitly say that calculated strikes only works when dual wielding. Also, like Iamyourking said, the two-weapon tree could use a buff. Also, I feel like something more two-hander specific than just weapon focus/specialization should be in the two-hander tree. Maybe something like, at 7th level, add 1/4 of your weapon's weight to your attack rolls, or something like that. As it stands, a havoc knight could use a longsword and a shield and get all of those feats. It would make them sacrifice their ability to rage strike, but now they have a shield, which gives them added defense. If you're OK with that, then fine. Just feel like that's probably not something you intended to happen.
    It's something to consider, thanks. And thanks for taking the time to do a follow up PEACH, I was just reading over your comments on your Defense Overhual but i haven't found the means to put my thoughts into words yet.

    But just some things to note. I suppose I could specifically say that the feats for the two-hander path ONLY apply to two-handed weapons. However, I don't really have a problem with a Havoc Knight that wants to go sword and board, because I don't think any Havoc Knight would want to go sword and board. If they did, they'd lose the ability to use rage strike or use calculated strikes, and they'd have to spend the appropriate feats for shield proficiency.

    I thought the 1/4 weapon weight extra damage was a good idea. However, after reviewing the various weapon weights, it occurred to me that it almost forced all two-hander Havoc Knights to use Great axes (or at least find the heaviest two-handed weapon), in order to maximize the benefit of that feature (Which is potentially a +6 bonus to damage at level 7, if they have the Monkey Grip feat [Complete Warrior] and are utilizing it). Plus they already get a bonus to damage based off Charisma mod.

    The issue I'm seeing is that the ability progression seems uneven. Meaning two-weapon Havoc Knights get their juicy ability at level 2, 14 and 18. While duel wielding gets their abilities at level 2 and 7. I'll try to think of a different progression.

    thanks again for your feedback.
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