The Miko Controversy

[Blood]

Why does everyone hate Miko? It is very obvious that most people on the forums have a very negative attitude toward Miko and her general actions. I hate to start yet another thread about Miko, but I need to know: why is she so infamous? I don't find her my favorite character, but she is the source of plenty of punchlines and altogether another humorous character in the comic.

I can't think of a strong reason for someone to dislike Miko. There has to be something that I'm missing if so many people do. Please enlighten me.

[theKOT]

My brain hurts. If you want to know why people hate Miko, go through all the dead threads about it simply via the search function. See, someone is going to respond to this with a mostly factual statement that contains some glaring opinionated falsehoods then my hand will, ignoring my brain's protests, be forced to reply in a Miko pro v. con war, round 11,045.

[Iranon]

The arguments have been rehashed either ways... apparently it is a matter of perception. Personally, I find her a lot more tolerable than most people of her nominal alignment.

[Blood]

My brain hurts. If you want to know why people hate Miko, go through all the dead threads about it simply via the search function.

That's the problem. I have read through many threads regarding Miko, and many people will mention that they hate Miko, but not provide backing when the pro-Miko people argue with them. Obviously, I could have missed something, but I'm starting this thread instead.

I'm looking for the reason people hate Miko. I don't particularly want a Miko pro vs. con war, at least at the moment. When I figure out why Miko is disliked, maybe I can start supporting either side.

[Kaerbek]

Hi everyone, new guy in the forum, i've been reading the comic since its beginning so, here I am.

About the Miko controversy:

Miko is a Paladin, she represents everything that's pure, good, right, divine and lawful. She protects the innocent and the weak and she fights for everything she belive is right to make the world a better placer.

Great.

But being a Paladin, brings a lot of controversy itself, because paladins are suposed not to fight ONLY for good causes, buy also to be good persos, nice and polite, their high carisma make them look reliable and trustworthy, things that Miko is not.
Why no one likes miko? she's a paladin, that's enough reason to like her whether you like her temper or not. False, having a bad temper is what makes her image to go down.
Miko was instructed in the ways of the Samurai, the Paladin and is under the feudal reing of Lord Sojo, too Lawful for my taste, she is also a champion of the gods: lawful + divine. She was raised in a monastery: lawful + divine + a conservative mind that leads her to a puritane vision of everything. I'm just guessing here, but I think Miko in a future will turn into a Blackguard, she's too lawful, she'l eventually go to a moral dilema between what's really right and what she's been taught is right, plus, that encounter with Xikon makes it clear that she's being too paladin to be just a normal human.

About plotlines and humor, true, she give some flavor to gags, scenes and humorous situations, but even Xikon, being the bad guy as it is, has better temper than Miko, in fact, Xikon is my favourite character of all the comic xD

I hope that make you understad a bit :)

p.s: I'm from Argentina, so, my english is not great, if I make a mistake, please correct me, I still want to learn :)

[TinSoldier]

I am unable to understand some peoples' (in my opinion) irrational dislike for the character. The dislike that goes beyond disliking her and her attitude as an individual but that goes into actively disliking her being included as a character in the comic at all.

However I can understand some peoples' dislike of her and her attitude as an individual: She seems unsympathetic towards others, she keeps her own emotions closely guarded, she seems to hold duty and honor above the good of others, she tells others when they are wrong, she expects others to live up to her high standards.

And basically what Kaerbek said right above which was very well reasoned and readable .

Especially the judging of others, many people find that to be extremely annoying. Also many people here have played in groups with paladins more similar to Miko than not and they may have had bad play experiences because of it.

I can understand their point of view even if I disagree with portions of it.

[Ampersand]

In my opinion, it basically comes down to two facts.

1: The OotS are the protagonists

2: Miko does not like, is more powerful than, and is mean to the protagonists.

That's essentially what it comes down to, but whether consciously or not it's unlikely anyone would admit that. For example, people might say they dislike Miko because she's judgemental and rude, while completely overlooking the fact that Roy is at least as bad as she is. However, since he is a protagonist, he gets a free pass in that regard, while Miko is strung up for it.

[Mike_G]

From a narrative standpoint, she's a great character.

But I'd choke her if I had to deal with her for real. The sharp rocks a pillows, the preaching, ordering the OotS around without learning their names, that would make me pull the pin on Belkar and toss him in her sleeping bag.

[Kish]

her sleeping bag.

Remember, she doesn't sleep.

[Thexare Blademoon]

In my opinion, it basically comes down to two facts.

1: The OotS are the protagonists

2: Miko does not like, is more powerful than, and is mean to the protagonists.

Small problem there.

Xykon - for an obvious example - does not like, is more powerful than, and has outright tried to kill the protagonists, which kinda trumps being "mean". And he's a hell of a lot more popular than Miko. Now, I'm sure someone would say "but he's funnier" in response - and now we're getting to an actual problem people have with Miko as a character, rather than just indirectly insulting the people that dislike her. Some just do not find her very entertaining, quite possibly due to dealing with stick-in-ass paladins before and having bad memories of it. As a person, TinSoldier's second paragraph covered it nicely. I will not deny that people like her exist, and I've hated spending any time within fifty feet of those people.

While the comparison to Roy is somewhat sound, consider the amount of time they're seen.. In almost every comic Miko's been in with the Order, she seems to have trouble with the concept that they're human(oid) judging from how she treats them. Now, in Belkar's case I'm gonna call that entirely justified, but for the others? No. Roy has been judgemental in the past (no specific examples come to mind), and he hasn't always been the nicest person around (abandoning Elan in the bandit camp), but we've seen him more, and those issues don't come up as proportionally often.

[theKOT]

From a narrative standpoint, she's a great character.

But I'd choke her if I had to deal with her for real. The sharp rocks a pillows, the preaching, ordering the OotS around without learning their names, that would make me pull the pin on Belkar and toss him in her sleeping bag.

Sharp rocks as pillows.... She only suggested it. She even payed for their rooms. She never actively forced them to adhere to her moral code, she simply told them what was the right thing to do. What is she supposed to do, sit by and watch (in her opinion) misguided fools barreling towards inevitable doom? Or warn them of their fate, and tell them how to avoid it. Yeah, she 's preachy, abrasive, assuming, and a bit too devoted to duty; Still, she was only looking out for their wellfare.

Of course now she is almost insane(Giant's words), so you could say a lot of things about post-trial Miko. But you must agree that she is certainly more pitiable than deplorable, in that case. Her intentions, at their core, are noble. I know, the road to hell and all that, but that doesn't detract from the condolence the situation elicits.

[Demented]

Remember, she doesn't sleep.

Vaarsuvius doesn't sleep either, and Belkar still managed to get a jar of hornets on its head. Miko has to spend an hour meditating or praying in order to regain spells, during which, at very least, you could eke in a surprise round.

[Ampersand]

Small problem there.

Xykon - for an obvious example - does not like, is more powerful than, and has outright tried to kill the protagonists, which kinda trumps being "mean". And he's a hell of a lot more popular than Miko.

Fine, you got me there. So I'll add a third reason: Miko is an authority figure who makes the protagonists follow the rules, even if they don't agree with said rules.

Part of the whole adventurer psyche is that they are outside and above any sort of rules that lesser mortals (read: NPCs) should enact. Even the Lawful ones. It's understandable, really...we're bound by rules and regulations practically every minute of our lives, so part of the escapism that fantasy roleplay provides is the ability to transcend socialtal norms. After all, the sort of behavior that our characters undertake in any given session would get us tossed in jail (or the loony bin) if we tried it in real life...

Now, I'm sure someone would say "but he's funnier" in response - and now we're getting to an actual problem people have with Miko as a character, rather than just indirectly insulting the people that dislike her.

I did not mean any insult, and I apologize if it came off that way.

While the comparison to Roy is somewhat sound, consider the amount of time they're seen.. In almost every comic Miko's been in with the Order, she seems to have trouble with the concept that they're human(oid) judging from how she treats them.

I just flipped through my copy of Paladin Blues and up until the "Drag us there in chains" speech I don't really see Miko being all that insulting towards the OotS, other than calling Vaasurivious "Elf." She's a bit stiff and overly formal, yes, but nothing that I'd find insulting. This changes after comic 250, of course, but the string of insults and threats Roy and the rest of the Order toss at her in that comic would shift almost anyone towards the "Bad Cop" end of the spectrum.

Roy has been judgemental in the past (no specific examples come to mind), and he hasn't always been the nicest person around (abandoning Elan in the bandit camp), but we've seen him more, and those issues don't come up as proportionally often.

I list quite a few in this thread

[tgva8889]

I personally dislike Miko because she's cold, heartless, and completely devoted to destroying the Order. Xykon is not. Don't try to say he is. He's devouted to finding the gates and doing whatever evil plan he's planning on. He just has to deal with OotS because of an oath of vengance that Roy's father made. And Xykon technically tried to kill OotS in self-defense: Miko just jumped on them and attempted to kill them for only the reason that she detected evil. Not the same thing.

Granted, Miko is one who causes hilarity during the story. Xykon's jokes are better in my opinion, but Miko makes for great comedy. I don't really hate her. I just don't really like her, either.

[Brickwall]

Miko's mean. Very mean. Extreme personalities beget extreme reactions.

[The_Old_Fox]

My two coppers:

I think that a lot of people who hate with a passion have other deep seated issues with:

1)authority figures and people telling them what to do
2)people who think they are “The Good Guys”
3)all the cool rich kids
4)and to some degree society in general

After all, authority figures are usually rich/popular/”cool” people who think that they know what is best for everyone else and they govern and enforce society. If you have problems with the world/society you are going to have problems with those who govern it and uphold it. Paladins, IMO, are the best example of the status quo and are armed enforces of the “good of society”. , as an antagonist and abrasive version of this type of character really raises the ire of these people.

(not sure what that was worth, it is late and I am tired)

[Tabiani]

First, I rather like Miko. She's annoying, she has a big stick up her backside, and she is very opposed to our heros. But still, I find her antics amusing and the strip is better for her presence. She won me over in 214 & 215 with the total send-up of the "Lawful Stupid" ethic my first gaming group was so stuck on.

What I see here a lot is that people can't accept that a character can be "Hateful-Good" or "Evil-Cute" and want to force characters like Miko, Belkar, and Thog out of the alignments they have followed into some fallen-pally or evil-but-misunderstood mold. Not all, to be sure, but I see it fairly often.

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Wannabe Writer Theater Presents: Free Your Mind

Spoiler

Show

We join our characters backstage, preparing for their next comic...

Oy vey.

Wha is it now, lad?

Another Miko thread.

Ye aren't gonna wig out agin, are ye?

No. Just going to do my best to ignore it.

Ignore what?

Another Miko thread.

ANOTHER one?!?

Wait. Don't tell me. They're trying to figure out what that thing in the dark is again.

No. Miko.

No Miko? She's dead?!

No. We're talking about the fact that they're talking about why people hate Miko so much.

ooh! thog know!

You guys don't have to talk in character. We're backstage.

(cultured English accent) Oh. Right. Terribly sorry about that. Might I take the oppotunity to explain this conundrum?

(Brooklyn accent) Hey, whuddevuh you wanna do.

*ahem* Miko represents an extreme in character alignment. As a Paladin, she must be lawful and good. Her lawful nature is represented in her obeying the law to the letter. Her "good" side is her relentless pursuit and destruction of evil.

Hiya, guys. What's goin' on?

Thog is explaining why people don't like you.

Was he doing it "Thog-esque-like"?

He started to, but Roy reminded him about backstage abilities.

He'd make a great bard, though, getting into character like that so often.

Pray tell, might I continue?

Please?

Thank you. As I was saying, she is an extreme. There are many definitions of the word "good," and it is the connotated meaning of "nice" that people tend to think of first. Miko, as a character, does that which is right by law and proper by circumstance. Lawfully and "goodfully," as it were. These aspects, however, do not mean she has to be nice.

But I AM nice. People just need to get to know me. If one more OotS fan comes at me shouting, "SMITE BITCH!", I'm gonna...Ummm...

Defend yourself?

Probably. It's becoming a lifestyle.

Oh! You know what this is like?

A soap opera.

Exactly!

I was joking.

I'm not. I'm not into soaps or anything, but I had a friend who was. She went to a book signing at some bookstore and met some of the actors from her favorite soap opera. One of the villains from the show was there, and he was all nice and charming, and my friend couldn't believe it! The actor laughed because he realized her reaction was because the only way people knew "him" was through the show.

Indeed. It's not until you get pulled over for driving while intoxicated by a Jewish officer that your TRUE character comes out.

Do NOT get me started!

Or adopt an orphan that isn't an orphan?

ELAN!

That reminds me. Brit says she's going to let her second child, "Oops," drive.

No shooting the author. He has too much fun with these!

[Nevrmore]

I don't think Miko should be excluded from the comic because she definately adds some worthwhile conflict. I'm not saying that Rich made a mistake when making her, because it was his every intent to make Miko so overbearing, dominating, and close-minded, and it just happened to rub a lot of people the wrong way because most people dislike characters who are overbearing, dominating, and close-minded. I think Rich intended her to be reviled as much as she is.

[Azukar]

Bor the Barbarian Monk's Thog said it best: Miko is the worst incarnation of a Lawful Good character you can imagine. Self-righteousness to the max, not to mention good ol' righteous fury. Actually, from what I've read she's more like Lawful Neutral, in that she doesn't seem to much care about Good, only the Law side of things...

[lady_arrogance]

Also many people here have played in groups with paladins more similar to Miko than not and they may have had bad play experiences because of it.

I'm kind of Miko-hater my self. And this sounds pretty familiar. In our group is one person, who's always playing paladin almost identical to Miko. With all the bad attitude towards other characters and so on. (Very great person in real life, but those 'Mikos' sucks.)

Funniest thing, I've never thought, that my playing experiences could influence to which comic character I like or don't like...

[Azukar]

By that I mean, the most I know of D&D comes from OotS and what I've read on the online SRD, but Miko does seem more like the "Judge" character than the "Crusader". Check the comparison offered by SRD:

Lawful Good:
A lawful good character acts as a good person is expected or required to act. She combines a commitment to oppose evil with the discipline to fight relentlessly. She tells the truth, keeps her word, helps those in need, and speaks out against injustice. A lawful good character hates to see the guilty go unpunished.

Lawful Neutral:
A lawful neutral character acts as law, tradition, or a personal code directs her. Order and organization are paramount to her. She may believe in personal order and live by a code or standard, or she may believe in order for all and favor a strong, organized government.

I think DM needs to inform Miko's player that her alignment has changed.

[Captain van der Decken]

Wait, where did Miko fail to fulfil the requirements for LG?

[Tokiko Mima]

People find Miko unsymapathetic. Redcloaks soliloquy to her touched on a point about Miko that she ignored but I think is totally valid; she so extreme in her values that she often isn't human.

What I mean by this is that she has a devotion to Order, Justice and Law that seperates her and in her mind places her above the rest of humanity. She rarely feels anything for any other character, and feels entitled to lecture to them when they make mistakes. She's not just cold, she's emotionally absent in a lot of ways.

All of the other characters in OotS you can relate to. Xylon and Nale may be evil, twisted and sadistic, but you can see them experience real joy and feeling, and the reader can connect to that in a low and brutal way. But Miko? You can't do that because she isn't there: all she is is a heartless enforcer of virtues that she doesn't truly understand but defends to the death anyway. She's very much like a construct.

[Demented]

Wait, where did Miko fail to fulfil the requirements for LG?

That's a good question.

Fine, you got me there. So I'll add a third reason: Miko is an authority figure who makes the protagonists follow the rules, even if they don't agree with said rules.

Ooh, ooh! What about Eugene and Shojo? =D

They aren't protagonists, so much as walking, talking plothooks.
Everything else they fit to a tee.
Roy would be one of them as well, if he wasn't a protagonist.

[Lazy Fat Man]

My guess is that people who don't like Miko, or think that she is evil/neutral, are people who are chaotic in alignment. Being chaotic, they think it's wrong to be judgemental or boss people around and tell them what to do. But that is part of being lawful. Lawful characters not only follow orders, but they expect others to follow them as well.

In summary, the chaotic readers see Miko's bossyness as "wrong" and equate it with "evil". Which, in terms of DnD alignment, are two completely different things.

That, or they just don't like bossy people(I know I don't).

[Grim Oswald]

I don't really have a problem with Miko, but if I did, it would be that she's lawful good and nothing else. By that I mean she has no real personality, just an obsessive over-zealous lust to follow the description of the alignment to the letter.

[Coffee_Dragon]

Woo, Miko thread! I've said it before: all threads should be Miko threads.

See, someone is going to respond to this with a mostly factual statement that contains some glaring opinionated falsehoods

I see a few so far.

[Demented]

If it's only a few, they should hardly be worth contemplating.
Unless they're exceedingly high-quality and well written, then I can understand.

[The Glitter Ninja]

I think that a lot of people who hate with a passion have other deep seated issues with:

1)authority figures and people telling them what to do
2)people who think they are “The Good Guys”
3)all the cool rich kids
4)and to some degree society in general

There's nothing like a lot of personal attacks by Internet Psychologists to really get the ol' debate going, is there?

I believe a lot of the animosity toward the character is brought about by the forum discussions. Honestly, I suspect most people who don't participate in the forums don't have such extreme opinions about her.

If someone doesn't like Miko, even if they calmly explain why, there's always a handful of people who get personally offended by their dislike of the character. Defenders of Miko's character often say that the reasons listed are wrong: the person simply doesn't understand Miko, or there's a good explanation for why Miko is abrasive and it's stupid to dislike her for that character trait.

They often launch ad hominem attacks (like the one I quoted above) on the posters' character. Claiming that people who don't care for the Miko character are anti-social is a sure-fire way to get people defensive and riled up. So now people who were on the fence about the Miko issue jump in, and defend the side they relate to most, hence all the people who "hate" or "love" Miko.