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    Forrestfire's Avatar

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    Default Legend Tells of a Legendary Warrior... (3.5 Class) [PEACH]

    I was reading in another thread about the idea of a tier 1/2 mundane warrior class, and decided that I'd try my hand at making one. I'm fairly sure I didn't succeed, and I think what I ended up with is an unholy abomination somewhere between tiers 2 and 3 it's now something probably more like tier 3 I hope, but I like the idea (character so badass he doesn't need magic) and felt like posting it for critique. So, here we have my first homebrew class in a long time. Thoughts/comments/critique/the inevitable "your fighter has too much magic"?:

    (At this point, I think my goal is tier 3 probably, so it can actually be playable in sane games. It's also very much a work in progress, so advice would be great.)

    Legendary Warrior
    "Legend tells of a legendary warrior whose skills were the stuff of legend."


    "The world is filled with magic... It's almost everywhere you look. The wilderness is almost dripping with arcane ichors, you can accidentally stumble into a dimension of pure magical fire if you aren't paying enough attention, and the dead spontaneously rise if you leave them alone for long enough. You can be granted power beyond your wildest dreams by praying hard enough to some god or other, or by thinking long enough about books until your eyes start glowing and your hands start shooting fireballs. With magical energy just sitting there for the taking, you'd have to be a fool to not grab some for yourself...

    Or at least that's what most think. My opinion on the matter is a mite bit different, eh? I've got my sword and a few tricks... I don't need much more than that. Some may call me hypocritical doing things that seem close to magic, but well... The mages can keep their "true" magic. I'll stick to the solidarity of steel in my hands and my own skills... Hrm, what's that noise outside? Oh. Lemme handle this, back in a second."
    Spoiler
    Show


    SLASH
    "... Sorry, where were we...?"



    Hit Die: d10
    Starting Gold: As fighter

    {table=head]
    Level
    |
    Base Attack Bonus
    |
    Fort Save
    |
    Ref Save
    |
    Will Save
    |
    Special
    |
    Maneuvers Readied
    |
    Maneuvers Known
    |
    Stances Known

    1st
    | +1 |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    | Just That Good +1, Weapon Aptitude, Combat Style |
    2
    |
    2
    |
    1

    2nd
    | +2 |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    | Bonus Feat, Evasion, Athletics |
    2
    |
    2
    |
    1

    3rd
    | +3 |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    | AC bonus, Uncanny Dodge, Combat Style Proficiency |
    2
    |
    3
    |
    1

    4th
    | +4 |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    | Just That Good +2, Deflect Arrows |
    2
    |
    3
    |
    1

    5th
    | +5 |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    | Bonus Feat, Mettle, Inhuman Toughness 1 |
    3
    |
    4
    |
    2

    6th
    | +6/+1 |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    | Improved Uncanny Dodge |
    3
    |
    4
    |
    2

    7th
    | +7/+2 |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    | A Terror to Behold, Improved Combat Style |
    3
    |
    5
    |
    2

    8th
    | +8/+3 |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    | Just That Good +3, Bonus Feat |
    3
    |
    5
    |
    2

    9th
    | +9/+4 |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    | Walk the Sky, Improved Deflection |
    3
    |
    6
    |
    2

    10th
    | +10/+5 |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    | Your Reputation Precedes You, Impossible Precision, Inhuman Toughness 2 |
    4
    |
    6
    |
    2

    11th
    | +11/+6/+1 |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    | Improved Evasion, Pouncing Charge, Greater Combat Style |
    4
    |
    7
    |
    3

    12th
    | +12/+7/+2 |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    | Just That Good +4, Bonus Feat |
    4
    |
    7
    |
    3

    13th
    | +13/+8/+3 |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    | Pierce the Veil |
    4
    |
    8
    |
    3

    14th
    | +14/+9/+4 |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    | Walking Nightmare, You Cannot Stop Me |
    4
    |
    8
    |
    3

    15th
    | +15/+10/+5 |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    | Bonus Feat, Incorruptible Determination, Inhuman Toughness 3, Combat Style Mastery |
    5
    |
    9
    |
    3

    16th
    | +16/+11/+6/+1 |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    | Just That Good +5, Faster than the Eye Can See |
    5
    |
    9
    |
    3

    17th
    | +17/+12/+7/+2 |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    | Untouchable Deflection |
    5
    |
    10
    |
    4

    18th
    | +18/+13/+8/+3 |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    | Bonus Feat, Shatter Fate |
    5
    |
    10
    |
    4

    19th
    | +19/+14/+9/+4 |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    | Combat Style Supremacy |
    5
    |
    11
    |
    4

    20th
    | +20/+15/+10/+5 |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    | Just That Good +6, Inhuman Toughness 4, The Stuff of Legends |
    6
    |
    11
    |
    4
    [/table]


    Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level, x4 at 1st level): Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (history), Knowledge (local), Listen, Move Silently, Perform (Weapon Drill), Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A legendary warrior is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with light and medium armor and shields (including tower shields).

    Spoiler: Class Features
    Show

    Maneuvers: You begin your career with knowledge of two martial maneuvers. The disciplines available to you are Iron Heart, White Raven, and an additional discipline based on your combat style (see Combat Styles, below).

    Once you know a maneuver, you must ready it before you can use it (see Maneuvers Readied, below). A maneuver usable by legendary warriors is considered an extraordinary ability unless otherwise noted in its description. Your maneuvers are not affected by spell resistance, and you do not provoke attacks of opportunity when you initiate one.

    You learn additional maneuvers at higher levels, as shown on the class table. Unlike most initiators, you need not meet a maneuver's prerequisite to learn it, so long as it is within one of the disciplines available to you. To determine the highest-level maneuvers you can learn, see the following table:

    {table=head]Initiator Level|Maneuver Level
    1st-2nd|1st
    3rd-4th|2nd
    5th-6th|3rd
    7th-8th|4th
    9th-10th|5th
    11th-12th|6th
    13th-14th|7th
    15th-16th|8th
    17th+|9th[/table]

    Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even-numbered legendary warrior level after that (6th, 8th, 10th, and so on), you can choose to learn a new maneuver in place of one you already know. In effect, you lose the old maneuver in exchange for the new one. You can choose a new maneuver of any level you like, as long as you observe your restriction on the highest-level maneuvers you know; you need not replace the old maneuver with a maneuver of the same level. For example, upon reaching 10th level, you could trade in a single 1st-, 2nd-, 3rd- or 4th-level maneuver for a maneuver of 5th level or lower, as long as you meet the prerequisite of the new maneuver. You can swap only a single maneuver at any given level.


    Maneuvers Readied: You can ready both the maneuvers you know at 1st level, but as you advance in level and learn more maneuvers, you must choose which maneuvers to ready. You ready your maneuvers by exercising for 5 minutes. The maneuvers you choose remain readied until you decide to exercise again and change them. You need not sleep or rest for any long period of time to ready your maneuvers; any time you spend 5 minutes in practice, you can change your readied maneuvers.

    You begin an encounter with all your readied maneuvers unexpended, regardless of how many times you might have already used them since you chose them. When you initiate a maneuver, you expend it for the current encounter, so each of your readied maneuvers can be used once per encounter (until you recover them, as described below).

    You can recover all expended maneuvers by spending a full-round action concentrating to recover your maneuvers. You cannot initiate a maneuver or change your stance while you are recovering your expended maneuvers, but you can remain in a stance in which you began your turn.

    Stances Known: You begin play with knowledge of one 1st-level stance from any discipline open to you. At 5th, 11th, and 17th level, you can choose additional stances. Unlike maneuvers, stances are not expended, and you do not have to ready them. All the stances you know are available to you at all times, and you can change the stance you are currently using as a swift action. A stance is an extraordinary ability unless otherwise stated in the stance description.

    Unlike with maneuvers, you cannot learn a new stance at higher levels in place of one you already know.


    Weapon Aptitude (Ex): Your training with a wide range of weaponry and tactics gives you great skill with particular weapons. You qualify for feats that usually require a minimum number of fighter levels (such as Weapon Specialization) as if you had a fighter level equal to your legendary warrior level -2. For example, as a 6th-level legendary warrior, you could take Weapon Specialization, since you're treated as being a 4th-level fighter for this purpose. These effective fighter levels stack with any actual fighter levels you have. Thus, a fighter 2/legendary warrior 4 would also qualify for Weapon Specialization.

    You also have the flexibility to adjust your weapon training. Each morning, you can spend 1 hour in weapon practice to change the designated weapon for any feat you have that applies only to a single weapon (such as Weapon Focus) and your combat style. You must have the newly designated weapon available during your practice session to make this change. For example, if you wish to change the designated weapon for your Weapon Focus feat from greatsword to longsword, you must have a longsword available to practice with during your practice session. You can adjust any number of your feats in this way, and you don't have to adjust them all in the same way. However, you can't change the weapon choices in such a way that you no longer meet the prerequisite for some other feat you possess. For instance, if you have both Weapon Focus (longsword) and Weapon Specialization (longsword), you can't change the designated weapon for Weapon Focus unless you also change the weapon for Weapon Specialization in the same way. You also can't change the designated weapons for bonus feats granted by your Combat Style.

    Combat Style: When you take your 1st level of legendary warrior, choose a single combat style from the following list. This choice affects your class features but does not restrict your selection of feats or special abilities in any way. Your skills grow more refined as you level up, granting you an enhanced ability to fight in your combat style. In addition, you may learn maneuvers from the style's corresponding discipline.
    Spoiler: Combat Style __________
    Show

    At 1st, you are treated as having the Weapon Focus feat applying to any weapon wielded in the style (for instance, a longsword wielded in one hand would use the One-Handed Melee Combat style, while wielding it in two would use the Two-Handed Melee Style) for all purposes, including meeting prerequisites, even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.

    {table=head]Combat Style|Discipline
    One-Handed Melee Combat|Diamond Mind
    Two-Handed Melee Combat|Stone Dragon
    Two-Weapon Combat|Tiger Claw
    Ranged Combat|Diamond Mind
    Unarmed Combat|Setting Sun[/table]

    If you specialize in Ranged Combat, you may initiate strikes from the legendary warrior class with ranged attacks as if they were melee attacks.

    If you specialize in Unarmed Combat, you gain the Unarmed Strike ability as if you were a monk of your legendary warrior level.

    At 3rd level, you grow more proficient in your combat style. You gain the following benefits based on which combat style you chose.
    Spoiler: Combat Style Proficiency
    Show
    • One-handed Melee Combat: You may apply either your strength or dexterity to attack and damage rolls with your weapon, whichever is higher.
    • Two-handed Melee Combat: You are treated as having the Power Attack feat, even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. In addition, you add 2 times your strength modifier to damage with a two-handed weapon instead of the normal 1.5.
    • Two-Weapon Combat: You are treated as having the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. In addition, if you are using a light weapon in your off-hand, you take no penalties for fighting with two weapons.
    • Ranged Combat: You are treated as having the Precise Shot feat, even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for that feats. In addition, you may add your Dexterity bonus to damage rolls made with ranged weapons.
    • Unarmed Combat: You gain the monk’s Flurry of Blows ability, and are treated as a monk of your legendary warrior level for the purposes of the penalty taken for your extra attack.


    At 7th level, you improve your combat style. You are treated as having the Weapon Specialization feat applying to any weapon wielded in the style for all purposes, including meeting prerequisites, even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for that feat, and the following benefits based on which combat style you chose:
    Spoiler: Improved Combat Style
    Show
    • One-handed Melee Combat: You may make a bluff check to feint in combat as a move or swift action.
    • Two-handed Melee Combat: You are treated as having the Leap Attack feat, even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.
    • Two-Weapon Combat: You are treated as having the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.
    • Ranged Combat: You are treated as having the Manyshot feat, even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. In addition, you may apply the feat to any ranged weapon, not just bows (if you are using thrown weapons, you may choose to throw two at once instead of firing a projectile).
    • Unarmed Combat: You are treated as having the Snap Kick and Stunning Fist feats, even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for those feats. You have a number of stunning fist uses as if you were a monk of your legendary warrior level, and you may use Intelligence or Charisma modifier instead of your Wisdom modifier to determine the DC of your stunning fist attempts.


    At 11th level, you become incredibly skilled in your combat style. You are treated as having the Greater Weapon Focus feat applying to any weapon wielded in the style for all purposes, including meeting prerequisites, even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for that feat, and the following benefits based on which combat style you chose:
    Spoiler: Greater Combat Style
    Show
    • One-handed Melee Combat: You are well-versed in the art of striking before an enemy's guard is up. The first time you feint at an enemy in a combat, you gain a bonus to the Bluff check equal to your legendary warrior level.
    • Two-handed Melee Combat: Your know how to put your full strength behind your strikes to batter enemies around the battlefield. You are treated as having the Improved Bull Rush and Shock Trooper feats, even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for those feats.
    • Two-Weapon Combat: You can strike with two weapons as easily as you strike with one. Whenever you are allowed an extra attack (such as with the speed special quality) or attack of opportunity, you may attack with both weapons you’re holding.
    • Ranged Combat: You have the skill to shoot at multiple enemies in what to outside observers appears to be a single, swift motion. You are treated as having the Greater Manyshot feat, even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. In addition, you may apply the feat to any ranged weapon, not just bows (if you are using thrown weapons, you may choose to throw two at once instead of firing a projectile).
    • Unarmed Combat: You are treated as having the Superior Unarmed Strike and Ki Blast feats, even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for those feat. In addition, you may choose to use your Intelligence or Charisma modifier instead of your Wisdom modifier to determine the amount of damage your Ki Blasts deal.


    At 15th level, your combat style has reached a point that few can match. You are treated as having the Greater Weapon Specialization feat applying to any weapon wielded in the style for all purposes, including meeting prerequisites, even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for that feat, and the following benefits based on which combat style you chose:
    Spoiler: Combat Style Mastery
    Show
    • One-handed Melee Combat: Your swordplay become so graceful and complex that you take no penalties for feinting against nonhumanoid or animal creatures, and can even affect mindless creatures with your feints. In addition, you deal extra damage equal to your legendary warrior level on any attack that hits a flanked creature or a creature denied its dexterity bonus to armor class. This is considered precision damage.
    • Two-handed Melee Combat: Your technique with your weapon allows you to use its larger size and superior reach to block off angles of attack and keep openings to a minimum. As long as you are wielding a weapon in two hands and aren’t flat-footed, you gain a deflection bonus to armor class equal to half your base attack bonus, rounded down.
    • Two-Weapon Combat: Your reflexes have progressed to a point where you can attack as effortlessly with your off-hand as you can with your primary hand. You are treated as having the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. In addition, you no longer take penalties for fighting with two weapons, no matter what weapons you wield.
    • Ranged Combat: Your speed at launching projectiles is unmatched, and you leave no openings during your attacks. Your ranged attacks while threatened do not draw attacks of opportunity.
    • Unarmed Combat: You can land a series of quick blows, striking weak points to cripple your enemies. If you hit with two or more unarmed attacks on the same creature, the enemy must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ your legendary warrior level + your Int, Wis, or Cha modifier + 4 per hit after the first) or be dazed for one round.


    At 19th level, you possess an undisputed command of your weapon, moving as if though you and your weapon are one. You are treated as having the Weapon Supremacy feat applying to any weapon wielded in the style for all purposes, including meeting prerequisites, even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for that feat, and the following benefits based on which combat style you chose:
    Spoiler: Combat Style Supremacy
    Show
    • One-handed Melee CombatChink In the Armor: Your skill with the blade has reached the point where you instinctively see openings in the defenses of your foes. You can elect to make one attack per enemy per round as a touch attack, denying the enemy their armor and natural armor bonuses. If it hits, you do damage as if you has scored a critical hit.
    • Two-handed Melee CombatUnstoppable Force: A master of two-handed weapons balances careful defense with sudden, massive swings of his weapon. There is little an enemy can do to block such a brutal attack, and even if they dodge it’s likely to hit something else just as hard. Shield bonuses do not apply against your melee attacks with a weapon held in two hands, and once per round, when you miss an attack, your swing carries your weapon into a different adjacent enemy. Make one extra attack with the same attack bonus, but targeted at the second enemy.
    • Two-Weapon CombatTwo Swords Are Better than None: You are treated as having the Improved Disarm and Improved Trip feats, even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. Each time you hit with both weapons in a round, you may attempt to trip or disarm your foe as a free action (so if you hit with your primary weapon three times and your secondary weapon twice, you get two attempts). All size bonuses an opponent would get on these attempts are ignored. Note that if you successfully trip your enemy, Combat Style Mastery allows your extra attack to be taken with both of your weapons. If you already have these feats, you instead add an additional +4 to your opposed checks to trip or disarm.
    • Ranged CombatZone of Control: Any time an enemy within one range increment moves, attacks, casts a spell, or uses a supernatural or spell-like ability, you may make a single ranged attack against that enemy as an immediate action at your highest attack bonus. If it hits, the enemy must make a Reflex save (DC 10 + the damage dealt) or lose the ability.
    • Unarmed CombatYou Are Already Dead: If you hit an enemy with multiple unarmed strikes in a round, you can apply an effect based on how many hits you successfully landed. The save DC for each ability is (DC 10 + ½ your legendary warrior level + your Int, Wis, or Cha modifier + 4 per hit after the first). This ability does not stack with the one granted by Combat Style Mastery, and you must declare which ability you are using.
      Spoiler
      Show
      • One Hit: The enemy must make a Fortitude save or be sickened for a number of rounds equal to the damage taken from your attacks this round.
      • Two Hits: The enemy must make a Fortitude save or be nauseated for a number of rounds equal to your Int, Wis, or Cha modifier, whichever is highest.
      • Three Hits: The enemy must make a Fortitude save or be dazed for one round.
      • Four Hits: The enemy must make a Fortitude save or be knocked unconscious (treat as if they had taken nonlethal damage equal to greater than their current hit point total).
      • Five Hits: The enemy must make a Fortitude save or die.



    Just That Good (Ex): A legendary warrior is someone who has devoted their lives to their craft, and his skill in combat is matched by few others, with some even triumphing over the most powerful mages. Your training in the arts of battle allow you to react easily to the unexpected, granting you a +1 bonus on saving throws. This bonus increases by 1 at 4th level and every four levels thereafter.

    In addition, you skill is such that those who see your attacks could have sworn you were empowered by magic. You gain the same number as an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls made with weapons. You also overcome damage reduction as if your weapons were magical, and at level 20, you overcome damage reduction as if your weapons were epic.


    Bonus Feat: At 2nd level and every three legendary warrior levels thereafter, you gain a bonus feat. These feats must be drawn from the fighter bonus feat list, and you must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat.


    Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level or higher, if you make a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, you instead take no damage. Evasion cannot be used if you are wearing heavy armor. A helpless legendary warrior does not gain the benefit of evasion.


    Athletics: A 2nd level or higher legendary warrior adds half his class level (rounded down) as a competence bonus to Balance, Climb, Jump, Swim, and Tumble checks.


    AC Bonus (Ex): A legendary warrior is hard to hit in combat, be it because he anticipates blows, fights by instinct, or is simply has an oppressive presence on the battlefield. As long as he is not wearing heavy armor, a 3rd level legendary warrior gains a bonus to armor class equal to his Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma modifier, whichever is higher.

    Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 3rd level, you gain the ability to react to danger before your senses would normally allow you to do so. You retain your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if you are caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, you still lose your Dexterity bonus to AC if you are immobilized.

    If you already have uncanny dodge from a different class (barbarian or rogue, for example), you automatically gain improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.


    Deflect Arrows: A legendary warrior’s reflexes are so good that he can deflect attacks from range, forcing enemies to come closer to fight. At 4th level, you are treated as having the Deflect Arrows feat, even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.


    Mettle (Ex): At 5th level and higher, a legendary warrior can resist magical and unusual attacks with great willpower or fortitude. If you make a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), you instead completely negate the effect. An unconscious or sleeping legendary warrior does not gain the benefit of mettle.


    Inhuman Toughness (Ex): At 5th level and onwards, your durability, stamina, and toughness increases to preternatural levels, granting you DR 1/-. At 10th level, and every five levels thereafter, increase this damage reduction increases by 1 point.


    Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 6th level and higher, you can no longer be flanked; you can react to opponents on opposite sides of you as easily as you can react to a single attacker. See the barbarian class feature (PH 26) for more information.


    A Terror to Behold (Ex): Your presence on a battlefield can send all but the bravest running. At 7th level, you gain the frightful presence ability. This ability takes effect automatically whenever you attack or charge. Enemies within a radius of 30 feet are subject to the effect if they have up to the same amount of hit dice as you.

    A potentially affected creature that succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + ½ your legendary warrior level + your Cha modifier) remains immune to your frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, enemies with 4 or less HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds.


    Walk the Sky (Ex): At 9th level, your ability to run and jump has increased to the point where you can move in three dimensions as well as any mage. Using the air itself as a stepping stone, you gain a fly speed equal to your land speed with perfect maneuverability.


    Improved Deflection (Ex): At 9th level, your skill at defending yourself from ranged attack improves. You may use your deflect arrows feat a number of times per round equal to the number of iterative attacks you get from your base attack bonus.

    In addition, you add the Wall of Blades maneuver to your maneuvers known. If you already know this maneuver, you may instead learn any 2nd-level maneuver you qualify for.


    Your Reputation Precedes You: At 10th level, your actions have gained you fame or infamy. You gain followers as if you had the leadership feat, drawing from the people you’ve impressed, helped or simply those who sought you out because of your reputation. If you already have the leadership feat, you instead add +2 to your leadership score.


    Impossible Precision (Ex): At 10th level, your strikes grow cleaner, your weapons seem sharper, and your movements become ever more accurate. Against some foes, this even allows you to find weak points in otherwise unimpeachable defenses. Any weapon you wield is treated as Keen, doubling its threat range (this does not stack with other effects that increase threat range). In addition, your attacks overcome damage reduction as if they were weapons of every alignment and damage type (piercing, bludgeoning, and slashing).


    Improved Evasion (Ex): At 11th level, your evasion ability improves. You still take no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth you takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless legendary warrior does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.


    Pouncing Charge: At 11th level onward, if you charge, you can follow your movement with a full attack.


    Pierce the Veil (Ex): At 13th level, yours training has progressed to the point where you instinctively see things for what they really are. You can see through effects as if you were under the effect of a continuous True Seeing spell.


    Walking Nightmare (Ex): At 14th level, your frightful presence ability improves. It can now affect creatures of greater hit dice than you, and can also affect creatures immune to fear. Your frightful presence ability triggers on you attacking, charging, or drawing a weapon, and affects all enemies who can see you take the action.

    On a failed save, a creature with less HD than you is panicked for 4d6 rounds, and a creature with equal to or more HD than you is shaken for the same duration.


    You Cannot Stop Me (Ex): At 14th level, you can focus your concentration to break free of bindings and move completely freely. Once per day per 2 class levels, you may act as if under a Freedom of Movement spell. This ability is activated as a free action, and lasts until the start of your next turn.


    Incorruptible Determination (Ex): At 15th level, your will is so strong that an enemy trying to affect it is likely to be overpowered himself. You are immune to mind-affecting effects, and any creature that attempts to exert mental control over you (including domination and charm effects) must make a Will save (DC 10 + ½ your legendary warrior level + your Int, Wis, or Cha modifier) or be stunned for one round from the mental backlash. You can suppress and reactivate this ability as a free action.


    Faster than the Eye Can See (Ex): At 16th level, your attacks move so quickly that some who watch may not even notice some of them. Any time you take an action that includes with a weapon, including a strike, you may make an additional attack at your highest attack bonus. This ability does not apply more than once per action, although it does stack with Haste and effects like it.

    For instance, if a legendary warrior with the Unstoppable Force Combat Style Supremacy ability makes an attack against an opponent, he may make a second attack during the action. If he misses either of them, he could then attempt to hit another adjacent enemy with that miss, but he does not gain any extra attacks following the first bonus.

    A legendary warrior with the Two-Weapon Fighting Combat Style Mastery may make an attack with each weapon when using Faster than the Eye Can See, but again, because all the attacks are part of the same action, he would not gain further additional attacks.


    Shatter Fate (Su): A 18th level legendary warrior’s spirit is so strong that he can break through time and space itself. This ability gives you a powerful sixth sense as your brain comprehends things faster than they happen. You are treated as if you were under a constant Foresight effect. In addition, once per day, you can force reality to shape itself to your whims, allowing you to undo an event and forces a reroll of any roll made within the last round (including your last turn). Reality reshapes itself to accommodate the new result.


    Untouchable Deflection (Ex): At 17th level, you are so skilled at deflecting attacks that you can use the deflect arrows feat to deflect any ranged attack, including unusually massive ones and ranged touch attacks like rays.


    The Stuff of Legends (Ex): At level 20, you are truly a master of war, capable of unheard-of feats of strength and skill. Once per week, you can attempt an action of grand scale, as if you had cast Miracle for a powerful request. The specifics of how this works is up to the DM, but examples of such feats might be using your sword to slice through a mountain, destroying a soul, willing yourself back from the dead, or emulating some spell that fits thematically. This ability does not cost experience points.

    In addition, your reputation is so awe-inspiring (or fearsome) that your frightful presence ability again increases in scope. It now triggers any time you make a threatening action, such as reaching for a weapon (although not necessarily your own) or simply raising your voice at an enemy.





    Spoiler: Edits
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    EDIT: After a fairly long discussion with some friends about the class, I'm currently reworking it to fit more to the theme I had in mind (so badass he doesn't need spells) than the fairly all-over-the-place one it developed as I was making it (warrior who pretends to be a mage with random abilities). There will be edits to this first post for a while as I reshuffle stuff back together.

    10/21: Did some reworking to tone down some of the things that just seemed like numbers added for no real reason, and fixed some formatting issues.
    10/24: Added the Greater combat styles, lowered the level of the TWF ability to hit twice on an AoO.
    10/26: Added the ability for ranged characters to use Dex for damage to keep up with the melee people.
    11/1: Gave unarmed damage to the class at level one for the Unarmed combat style, because it makes no sense otherwise.
    Last edited by Forrestfire; 2013-11-10 at 12:37 AM.
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    Default Re: Legend Tells of a Legendary Warrior... (3.5 Class) [PEACH]

    This looks fun. I think your analysis that it may be between T2 and T3 is accurate. It definitely isn't T1 although it can do many of things a T2 would need to do.

    He is going to not be able to skill monkey as effectively as a a true T1. I'd consider increasing his class skill set and maybe giving him some bonuses that help out with that. Maybe give him the bardic lore class feature with a slightly lower effective bard level? Could be fluffed as he's just been around a lot and has heard a lot of things. If the effective bard level is reduced by say 2 then putting this at level 3 would make sense.

    I'd consider pushing the flight mimicking ability up a few levels later and instead give an insanely high bonus to jump checks (so more Samurai Jack style).

    Realer than Real should probably also give spell-resistance.

    A few other abilities that might be fun for a completely badass warrior. I'm not sure of the levels they would go at.


    Fast Parry (ex): You may when you are attacked with a melee weapon, when you are wielding a melee weapon, as an immediate action make an attack roll. If your roll exceeds the attack roll of the attack in question, you parry the blow. It misses and until the beginning of your next turn you get a +2 bonus to AC against the being who attacked you. You may also choose to use this when an opponent would threaten to confirm a critical hit. If so, this works to prevent confirmation, but on a successful use, you do not get the +2 bonus to AC. You must choose to use this ability before the opponent's die roll .

    Knock(ex): Some handle traps and locks with cunning. You know how to smash them just right. You may when you would make a Disable Device or an Open Lock check choose to instead make a strength check.

    That Again?(ex): If you have successfully saved against any spell, spell-like ability or supernatural ability in an encounter you get a +2 bonus to saves against other uses of the same ability.

    Body Over Mindl(ex): You add your strength modifier to any will save you make against mind-affecting effects. (This should presumably go before level 15.)

    Impossible Reaction Times(ex): You add half your class level to your initiative.

    Rally Your Allies(ex): Your amazing acts of combat rally your allies. You may as a swift action give any allies within 30 feet of you a +2 morale bonus to attack rolls, saving throws, and AC.

    You Aren't Going to Die on Me!(ex) You may by strongly thumping on the chest, resurrect a being who has died in the last 5 rounds. This effectively duplicates Raise Dead.
    My homebrew:

    Spoiler
    Show


    Completed:
    ToB disciplines:

    The Narrow Bridge
    The Broken Blade

    Prestige classess:
    Disciple of Karsus -PrC for Karsites.
    The Seekers of Lost Swords and the Preserver of Future Blades Two interelated Tome of Battle Prcs,
    Master of the Hidden Seal - Binder/Divine hybrid
    Knight of the Grave- Necromancy using Gish



    Worthwhile links:

    Age of Warriors

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    Default Re: Legend Tells of a Legendary Warrior... (3.5 Class) [PEACH] (very WIP right now)

    If you wanna be tier 1 you gotta be able to do everything, and if you're a fighter you do things with attack rolls. So tier 1 fighter->replace everything with attack rolls (that you'll almost never fail). Say, pick a roll (skill, save, ability, dispel, whatever you want) every other level and you can replace whatever you're supposed to do with an attack roll. This lets you invalidate skill monkeys, high save tank types, and most spells (friend or foe) depending on what you pick. Need heals? Attack the wound and beat damage with damage. Well having to pick is a problem since you can't do everything, so then you make like a prepared caster and instead pick from the whole list every morning but can only use it level/day. I'm only half kidding.
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    Default Re: Legend Tells of a Legendary Warrior... (3.5 Class) [PEACH] (very WIP right now)

    Which is why I gave up on trying to be tier 1 once I reworked the class after I got feedback on it. A healthy tier 3 is now the goal.
    Lolth is so scary that even in TO, "having to be touched by Lolth" is recognized as a serious drawback for Lolth-touched.
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    Default Re: Legend Tells of a Legendary Warrior... (3.5 Class) [PEACH] (very WIP right now)

    Looks like a great class. No ideas how to "fix" it, though.

    Anyways, what happened to Emeret? You've missed so many god-deaths in that thread! I think Vyx and Rono are the only surviving Old Gods that still are active in the Three Worlds.

    Anyways, back on topic, I'd definitely play a character from this class, as is.
    May the gods watch over your battles, friend.

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    Default Re: Legend Tells of a Legendary Warrior... (3.5 Class) [PEACH] (very WIP right now)

    Oh wow, is that still going? And there's three now? I should get around to returning.

    In any case, I'm thinking of asking my DM to let me playtest it in a campaign I'm in (because I'm replacing a character anyway.)
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    Default Re: Legend Tells of a Legendary Warrior... (3.5 Class) [PEACH] (very WIP right now)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    If you wanna be tier 1 you gotta be able to do everything, and if you're a fighter you do things with attack rolls. So tier 1 fighter->replace everything with attack rolls (that you'll almost never fail). Say, pick a roll (skill, save, ability, dispel, whatever you want) every other level and you can replace whatever you're supposed to do with an attack roll. This lets you invalidate skill monkeys, high save tank types, and most spells (friend or foe) depending on what you pick. Need heals? Attack the wound and beat damage with damage. Well having to pick is a problem since you can't do everything, so then you make like a prepared caster and instead pick from the whole list every morning but can only use it level/day. I'm only half kidding.
    There's something to be said for having a list of possible "epic feats", each of which you can only perform once without resting (because you can't over-saturate the epic), so you go and check off an epic feat once you've completed it. Epic feats would use your BAB (which definitely stands for "BA bonus"), and you only get a certain number per day.
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    Default Re: Legend Tells of a Legendary Warrior... (3.5 Class) [PEACH] (very WIP right now)

    Oh wow, is that still going? And there's three now? I should get around to returning.
    Yes, you should. Also, death/god-sleep count as far as I know: Lukelyot, Morger, Grognir, Rainbow Prince(ss), Solzn("zzz"), Gator ("zzz"), Lilike("zzz"), Old Migorid ("zzz"), The Omnissah, One of the Five, and quite a few others I can't name offhand.
    May the gods watch over your battles, friend.

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    Default Re: Legend Tells of a Legendary Warrior... (3.5 Class) [PEACH] (very WIP right now)

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
    There's something to be said for having a list of possible "epic feats", each of which you can only perform once without resting (because you can't over-saturate the epic), so you go and check off an epic feat once you've completed it. Epic feats would use your BAB (which definitely stands for "BA bonus"), and you only get a certain number per day.
    That's a good idea. Maybe feats that require a certain level of the combat style to be unlocked, or as you said, ones that require BAB of a certain level.
    Lolth is so scary that even in TO, "having to be touched by Lolth" is recognized as a serious drawback for Lolth-touched.
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    Default Re: Legend Tells of a Legendary Warrior... (3.5 Class) [PEACH] (very WIP right now)

    Reminds me of a homebrew class I made. It's a D10 Fighter that grants true seeing, freedom of movement, evasion, mettle, (improved) uncanny dodge, bonus fighter feats, pounce, the ability to effectively intimidate enemies in combat, the ability to attack people in midair, unnamed bonuses to AC, high skills, etc.

    Differences:

    • Yours is a warblade on steroids. Mine includes no ToB.
    • Mine can heal self/allies and cure diseases and conditions; yours cannot.
    • Yours has a good will save and various bonuses to saves.
    • Mine has various bonuses to damage and initiative.
    • Mine grants bonuses to social skills and has slightly higher skills per level (6+int). Yours grants bonuses to athletic skills and lets you sub skills on social.

    And a few other, minor differences (mine grants move speed bonuses, demoralize vs. frightful presence, etc.

    You may wish to clarify how "faster than the eye can see" works because I can't tell if it's infinite attacks, 8 attack on a full attack, or 5 attacks on a full attack, and whether it's supposed to stack with haste. Also, figure out how it interacts with the two-weapon fighting ability you grant at level 15, or "Unstoppable Force" where it appears that missing 1 attack would grant 2 more.

    Note that the frightful presence ability scales amazingly. 10+ Class Level + Ability mod is way higher than the norm. Normally saves scale at 10+ 1/2 class level + ability mod. Also note that spells scale this way as well, since the maximum level spell you can cast is always within 1 of half your class level. You use this scaling in other places in the class as well.

    You have some text vs. table issues like the level of uncanny dodge. You also grant no combat style bonuses at 11th level, which I assume you know.

    Shatter Fate and Stuff of Legends, the crowners of the class, come too late to make a difference in most games and throw its power out of whack. It reminds me of the healer getting gate - the healer is still low tier because 1 (or 2) late-game ability doesn't change things too much.

    There are plenty of ways to dodge rays or deflect them at the caster. This class's version is pretty irrelevant at the level you get it.

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    Default Re: Legend Tells of a Legendary Warrior... (3.5 Class) [PEACH] (very WIP right now)

    Firstly, thanks for reading through and commenting. It's much appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by bekeleven View Post
    Reminds me of a homebrew class I made. It's a D10 Fighter that grants true seeing, freedom of movement, evasion, mettle, (improved) uncanny dodge, bonus fighter feats, pounce, the ability to effectively intimidate enemies in combat, the ability to attack people in midair, unnamed bonuses to AC, high skills, etc.

    Differences:

    • Yours is a warblade on steroids. Mine includes no ToB.
    • Mine can heal self/allies and cure diseases and conditions; yours cannot.
    • Yours has a good will save and various bonuses to saves.
    • Mine has various bonuses to damage and initiative.
    • Mine grants bonuses to social skills and has slightly higher skills per level (6+int). Yours grants bonuses to athletic skills and lets you sub skills on social.

    And a few other, minor differences (mine grants move speed bonuses, demoralize vs. frightful presence, etc.
    That sounds like a neat class. Got a link to it?

    You may wish to clarify how "faster than the eye can see" works because I can't tell if it's infinite attacks, 8 attack on a full attack, or 5 attacks on a full attack, and whether it's supposed to stack with haste. Also, figure out how it interacts with the two-weapon fighting ability you grant at level 15, or "Unstoppable Force" where it appears that missing 1 attack would grant 2 more.
    It was meant to be only one extra attack per action (and the 15th-level TWF ability would let you take two total). I clarified it in the text.

    Note that the frightful presence ability scales amazingly. 10+ Class Level + Ability mod is way higher than the norm. Normally saves scale at 10+ 1/2 class level + ability mod. Also note that spells scale this way as well, since the maximum level spell you can cast is always within 1 of half your class level. You use this scaling in other places in the class as well.
    That's a good point. I changed them to be more in line with what other classes get.

    You have some text vs. table issues like the level of uncanny dodge. You also grant no combat style bonuses at 11th level, which I assume you know.
    I totally missed those when I was shuffling stuff around. Thanks for catching them.

    Shatter Fate and Stuff of Legends, the crowners of the class, come too late to make a difference in most games and throw its power out of whack. It reminds me of the healer getting gate - the healer is still low tier because 1 (or 2) late-game ability doesn't change things too much.
    I was not sure where Shatter Fate would best be placed. It was originally at level 17, when other casters would get foresight and wish, but I bumped it up because it seemed strong.

    The Stuff of Legends throws the power out of whack intentionally. I'm of the opinion that at that point in the game, the level 20 capstone should be something cool, without as much regard to balance.

    There are plenty of ways to dodge rays or deflect them at the caster. This class's version is pretty irrelevant at the level you get it.
    Good points. Maybe I should move it down? What level would you suggest?
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    Default Re: Legend Tells of a Legendary Warrior... (3.5 Class) [PEACH]

    On another note, I'm currently playtesting this in a PbP game I'm in, so hopefully it turns out well
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    Default Re: Legend Tells of a Legendary Warrior... (3.5 Class) [PEACH]

    I am glad to see that you set your sights off of T1 for this, as all of its abilities are some sort of combat focused with very little out of combat resource. That being said, your solid T3 assessment is spot on. I like to think I'm fairly perceptive, but I cannot see a single thing out of place for where you want it to be. Great job.

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    Default Re: Legend Tells of a Legendary Warrior... (3.5 Class) [PEACH]

    Wow, that's a lot of class features. Let's do a crit, shall we?

    Edit: spoilered for length.

    Spoiler
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    See Table 3-1 on page 39 of the Tome of Battle to determine the highest-level maneuvers you can learn.
    I don't actually own a copy of ToB (I'm a Pathfinder player), and even if I did, I wouldn't want to go flipping through it. Why not just summarize the relevant parts of the table here?

    You can recover all expended maneuvers by spending a full-round action concentrating to recover your maneuvers. You cannot initiate a maneuver or change your stance while you are recovering your expended maneuvers, but you can remain in a stance in which you began your turn.
    It doesn't feel as interesting as the Crusader, but it's certainly functional. If you don't like the Crusader's style, then this seems fine.

    Weapon Aptitude (Ex): Your training with a wide range of weaponry and tactics gives you great skill with particular weapons. You qualify for feats that usually require a minimum number of fighter levels (such as Weapon Specialization) as if you had a fighter level equal to your legendary warrior level -2.
    Makes sense. I'd almost be surprised if you didn't include something like this.

    Combat Style: When you take your 1st level of legendary warrior, choose a single combat style from the following list. This choice affects your class features but does not restrict your selection of feats or special abilities in any way. Your skills grow more refined as you level up, granting you an enhanced ability to fight in your combat style. In addition, you learn maneuvers from the style's corresponding discipline.
    I like it! It allows a warrior to have a specialized combat style without being restricted to one weapon, so that's cool. However, why is Diamond Mind the discipline for ranged combat? If I recall correctly, it doesn't have any ranged maneuvers. Why not toss in a homebrew discipline as well? There have been dozens, and I'm sure someone would let you incorporate their work on a ranged discipline.

    At 1st, you are treated as having the Weapon Focus feat applying to any weapon wielded in the style (for instance, a longsword wielded in one hand would use the One-Handed Melee Combat style, while wielding it in two would use the Two-Handed Melee Style), even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.
    I think this should also say you have Weapon Focus for the purposes of prerequisites. Otherwise, a Legendary Warrior still has to take Weapon Focus so they can get to Weapon Specialization.

    At 3rd level, you grow more proficient in your combat style. You gain the following benefits based on which combat style you chose.
    These all seem like solid bonuses. You might even want to give them earlier.

    At 7th level, you improve your combat style. You are treated as having the Weapon Specialization feat applying to any weapon wielded in the style, even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for that feat, and the following benefits based on which combat style you chose:
    Again, I feel like this should say you have Weapon Specialization for prerequisites, otherwise they have to waste a feat on it.

    One-handed Melee Combat: You may make a bluff check to feint in combat as a move or swift action.
    Why would anyone ever feint as a move when they could do it as a swift?

    At 11th level, you become incredibly skilled in your combat style. You are treated as having the Greater Weapon Focus feat applying to any weapon wielded in the style, even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for that feat, and the following benefits based on which combat style you chose:
    You might want to write these bonuses

    Two-handed Melee Combat: Your technique with your weapon allows you to use its larger size and superior reach to block off angles of attack and keep openings to a minimum. As long as you are wielding a weapon in two hands and aren’t flat-footed, you gain a deflection bonus to armor class equal to half your base attack bonus, rounded down.
    Deflection bonuses don't stack, and by this level a character will already have a Ring of Deflection +4 or +5. Half BAB then is 7, so it's only really a +2 or +3 bonus. Still, it's a +5 bonus over the ring by 20th, and it saves some gold. I'm just reminding you that it doesn't stack, so it might not be as big of a bonus as you thought.

    Two-Weapon Combat: You can strike with two weapons as easily as you strike with one. Whenever you are allowed an extra attack (such as with the speed special quality) or attack of opportunity, you may attack with both weapons you’re holding.
    This one should, in my opinion, be given even earlier. It's such a nice bonus, but it doesn't feel amazing like the rest of them do at this level.

    At 19th level, you possess an undisputed command of your weapon...
    These are all really cool. I particularly like the unarmed one. It did become a little confusing when it mentioned "Combat Style Mastery", which was only written on the spoiler title and in the table. I'd make a header "Combat Style _____" and use it to preface the combat style abilities like the other class features, just so a reader knows what's what.

    Four Hits: The enemy must make a Fortitude save or be knocked unconscious (treat as if they had taken nonlethal damage equal to their current hit point total).
    I don't know if this is the same in 3.5, but in Pathfinder, a character is staggered instead of unconscious when their hit point total is exactly 0.

    Just That Good (Ex): A legendary warrior is someone who has devoted their lives to their craft, and his skill in combat is matched by few others, with some even triumphing over the most powerful mages. Your training in the arts of battle allow you to react easily to the unexpected, granting you a +1 bonus on saving throws. This bonus increases by 1 at 4th level and every four levels thereafter [sic]
    Solid. Note that that last sentence should end with a period.

    In addition, you skill is such that those who see your attacks could have sworn you were empowered by magic. You gain the same number as an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls made with weapons. You also overcome damage reduction as if your weapons were magical, and at level 20, you overcome damage reduction as if your weapons were epic.
    This one seems a little bit off. 99% of the time, when the legendary warrior is using their weapon, it will already have an enhancement bonus far above this. If you play a fighter, you don't wait until level 4 to buy your first +1 weapon, and you certainly don't wait until 20 to get a +5. If you want it to really apply to the fighter's weapon, I'd make it +1 per three levels instead of every four. However, if this is intended as a bonus to using other weapons so you're not useless when your main weapon breaks, then it works well.

    Athletics: A 2nd-level or higher legendary warrior adds half his class level (rounded down) as a competence bonus to balance, climb, jump, swim, and tumble checks.
    Nitpick: Levels are usually hyphenated only for spells, e.g, a 3rd level Wizard casts 2nd-level spells. Also, the skill names should be capitalized.

    AC Bonus (Ex): A legendary warrior is hard to hit in combat, be it because he anticipates blows, fights by instinct, or is simply has an oppressive presence on the battlefield. As long as he is not wearing heavy armor, a 3rd-level legendary warrior gains a bonus to armor class equal to his intelligence, wisdom, or charisma modifier, whichever is higher.
    This feels like it's tossed in there just for bigger numbers, but sure. In formal rules texts, ability scores are capitalized.

    Inhuman Toughness (Ex): At 5th level and onwards, your durability, stamina, and toughness increases to preternatural levels, granting you DR 3/-. At 10th level, and every five levels thereafter, increase this damage reduction increases by 2 points.
    This distribution seems strange. 2/5 per level? Why?

    Your Reputation Precedes You: At 6th level, your actions have gained you fame or infamy. You gain followers as if you had the leadership feat, drawing from the people you’ve impressed, helped or simply those who sought you out because of your reputation. If you already have the leadership feat, you instead add +2 to your leadership score.


    Actions Speak Louder Than Words: Your presence is such that those around you can be swayed simply by your reputation, actions, or skill. You may use your strength or dexterity score in place of your charisma score for the purposes of Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks, as well as for calculating your leadership score and the save DC for any charisma-based effects you have.
    Does a Legendary Warrior really need these bonuses? Every bonus you toss out makes it less likely to be approved for a campaign.

    A Terror to Behold (Ex): Your presence on a battlefield can send all but the bravest running. You gain the frightful presence ability. This ability takes effect automatically whenever you attack or charge. Enemies within a radius of 30 feet are subject to the effect if they have up to the same amount of hit dice as you.

    A potentially affected creature that succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + ½ your legendary warrior level + your Cha modifier) remains immune to your frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, enemies with 4 or less HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds.
    Same here. He's already invincible in combat; this is just icing on the cake. Bonuses like this don't raise the LW any tiers and just make a GM more likely to reject it.

    You Cannot Stop Me (Ex): At 14th level, you can focus your concentration to break free of bindings and move completely freely. Once per day per class level, you may act as if under a Freedom of Movement spell. This ability is activated as a free action, and lasts until the start of your next turn.
    So it's FoM, but for only 14 rounds a day? That's hardly a limit.

    Faster than the Eye Can See (Ex): At 16th level, your attacks move so quickly that some who watch may not even notice some of them. Any time you take an action that includes with a weapon, including a strike, you may make an additional attack at your highest attack bonus. This ability does not apply more than once per action, although it does stack with Haste and effects like it.

    For instance, if a legendary warrior with the Unstoppable Force Combat Style Supremacy ability makes an attack against an opponent, he may make a second attack during the action. If he misses either of them, he could then attempt to hit another adjacent enemy with that miss, but he does not gain any extra attacks following the first bonus.

    A legendary warrior with the Two-Weapon Fighting Combat Style Mastery may make an attack with each weapon when using Faster than the Eye Can See, but again, because all the attacks are part of the same action, he would not gain further additional attacks.
    What this means is, an Unarmed Legendary Warrior can make six attacks a round, one of which targets touch AC, and only four need to hit to instantly KO? It doesn't need to be this strong.

    In conclusion, it gets plenty of abilities that bring it up to a solid T3, but beyond that it gets a whole bunch of combat bonuses it really doesn't need. A Legendary Warrior can already beat up anything in melee combat, and extras like six attacks per round and automatic free-action fear just make DMs less likely to approve it for a campaign.
    Last edited by AttilaTheGeek; 2013-10-21 at 08:00 PM.
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    Default Re: Legend Tells of a Legendary Warrior... (3.5 Class) [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by AttilaTheGeek View Post
    Wow, that's a lot of class features. Let's do a crit, shall we?
    What can I say, I like class features


    I don't actually own a copy of ToB (I'm a Pathfinder player), and even if I did, I wouldn't want to go flipping through it. Why not just summarize the relevant parts of the table here?
    Good point, I'll do so.


    It doesn't feel as interesting as the Crusader, but it's certainly functional. If you don't like the Crusader's style, then this seems fine.
    I wanted it to be something between Swordsage and Warblade.

    Makes sense. I'd almost be surprised if you didn't include something like this.
    Heh.

    I like it! It allows a warrior to have a specialized combat style without being restricted to one weapon, so that's cool. However, why is Diamond Mind the discipline for ranged combat? If I recall correctly, it doesn't have any ranged maneuvers. Why not toss in a homebrew discipline as well? There have been dozens, and I'm sure someone would let you incorporate their work on a ranged discipline.
    I chose Diamond Mind for the ranged combat discipline because I thought it was thematically appropriate (perfectly aimed shots or a crapton of them at once), and because the third level combat style lets them use their ranged attacks for strikes. Might look up a homebrew discipline, it hadn't occurred to me.

    I think this should also say you have Weapon Focus for the purposes of prerequisites. Otherwise, a Legendary Warrior still has to take Weapon Focus so they can get to Weapon Specialization.
    You have a point there.

    These all seem like solid bonuses. You might even want to give them earlier.
    I wasn't sure where to put them, and decided that third level seemed to fit with the general power level of the class. Might move the secondary ranged attack style thing to first level, though.

    Again, I feel like this should say you have Weapon Specialization for prerequisites, otherwise they have to waste a feat on it.
    Added that.

    Why would anyone ever feint as a move when they could do it as a swift?
    Because you only get one swift action per round, and sometimes you have other things to do with it.

    You might want to write these bonuses
    I could have sworn... And now that I looked through my stuff, I can't find them in the word document either XD

    I guess it's time to write some greater combat style bonuses

    Deflection bonuses don't stack, and by this level a character will already have a Ring of Deflection +4 or +5. Half BAB then is 7, so it's only really a +2 or +3 bonus. Still, it's a +5 bonus over the ring by 20th, and it saves some gold. I'm just reminding you that it doesn't stack, so it might not be as big of a bonus as you thought.
    I realize that they don't stack, but it fit my idea of it working and it's still a bonus.

    This one should, in my opinion, be given even earlier. It's such a nice bonus, but it doesn't feel amazing like the rest of them do at this level.
    It might be a bit later that it could be, but I didn't want to make it at a different level than the other abilities, and I felt it might be a bit too strong at level 3. Not sure though.

    These are all really cool. I particularly like the unarmed one. It did become a little confusing when it mentioned "Combat Style Mastery", which was only written on the spoiler title and in the table. I'd make a header "Combat Style _____" and use it to preface the combat style abilities like the other class features, just so a reader knows what's what.
    I'm glad you like them. Reformatted it to be more legible.

    I don't know if this is the same in 3.5, but in Pathfinder, a character is staggered instead of unconscious when their hit point total is exactly 0.
    Fixed.

    Solid. Note that that last sentence should end with a period.
    Also fixed.

    This one seems a little bit off. 99% of the time, when the legendary warrior is using their weapon, it will already have an enhancement bonus far above this. If you play a fighter, you don't wait until level 4 to buy your first +1 weapon, and you certainly don't wait until 20 to get a +5. If you want it to really apply to the fighter's weapon, I'd make it +1 per three levels instead of every four. However, if this is intended as a bonus to using other weapons so you're not useless when your main weapon breaks, then it works well.
    It's +1 at first level, then another +1 at four and every four afterwards. So a level 20 legendary warrior would have +6 weapons, and whichever of his weapons' bonuses were better would supersede the other.


    Nitpick: Levels are usually hyphenated only for spells, e.g, a 3rd level Wizard casts 2nd-level spells. Also, the skill names should be capitalized.
    Thanks, I didn't know the former and the latter slipped my mind.

    This feels like it's tossed in there just for bigger numbers, but sure. In formal rules texts, ability scores are capitalized.
    Hrm. It pretty much was, because I liked the idea of giving tangible benefits for a mental stat prior to needing it for save DCs. Maybe It'd be better to just let them substitute instead Dex for AC. Thoughts?

    This distribution seems strange. 2/5 per level? Why?
    I... actually don't know. Hrm. Honestly, 1/5 level seems better now that I think about it.

    Does a Legendary Warrior really need these bonuses? Every bonus you toss out makes it less likely to be approved for a campaign.
    These were added to the class with the goal of playing up the "legendary" aspect, harkening back to 2e fighters, which automatically got stuff like a castle, followers, a reputation, etc. I want a character taking the class to have mechanical benefits for being a figure of rumors and legend as he levels up, because while a DM could add those, most in my experience don't.

    Actions Speak Louder Than Words is probably a bit over-the-top, though. I'll probably remove it and just have the followers be keyed to a physical stat instead.

    Same here. He's already invincible in combat; this is just icing on the cake. Bonuses like this don't raise the LW any tiers and just make a GM more likely to reject it.
    Again, same motivations for this. If he's fighting mooks they will recognize him and be scared, and even people on his level would be wary, etc. Maybe it's over-the-top, but I like the idea. How would you propose fixing it while keeping the flavor?

    So it's FoM, but for only 14 rounds a day? That's hardly a limit.
    Point. Maybe half level instead.


    What this means is, an Unarmed Legendary Warrior can make six attacks a round, one of which targets touch AC, and only four need to hit to instantly KO? It doesn't need to be this strong.
    The touch AC ability is only given to one-handed combat style users. That is also at level 19, where comparable meleers are doing hundreds of points of damage and the spellcasters and simply rending reality asunder. Not sure if that matters, but it's how I had rationalized it.

    In conclusion, it gets plenty of abilities that bring it up to a solid T3, but beyond that it gets a whole bunch of combat bonuses it really doesn't need. A Legendary Warrior can already beat up anything in melee combat, and extras like six attacks per round and automatic free-action fear just make DMs less likely to approve it for a campaign.
    Those are good points. Got any advice for how I might go about fixing it, while still keeping the flavor of the class in the mechanics?
    Last edited by Forrestfire; 2013-10-21 at 07:32 PM.
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    Default Re: Legend Tells of a Legendary Warrior... (3.5 Class) [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Forrestfire View Post
    It's +1 at first level, then another +1 at four and every four afterwards. So a level 20 legendary warrior would have +6 weapons, and whichever of his weapons' bonuses were better would supersede the other.
    Oh, okay. I just misread that, then.

    Hrm. It pretty much was, because I liked the idea of giving tangible benefits for a mental stat prior to needing it for save DCs. Maybe It'd be better to just let them substitute instead Dex for AC. Thoughts?
    Do you mean substitute a mental stat for Dex, or apply Dex to AC twice? If you had to do either, I'd lean towards the second. However, after reading over the rest of the class, a tiny AC bonus doesn't seen that bad at all.

    These were added to the class with the goal of playing up the "legendary" aspect, harkening back to 2e fighters, which automatically got stuff like a castle, followers, a reputation, etc. I want a character taking the class to have mechanical benefits for being a figure of rumors and legend as he levels up, because while a DM could add those, most in my experience don't.
    Oh, hm, okay. I would instead say "You can have followers, as if from Leadership, but as if you were ~1/4 your level unless you actually take Leadership" and move it up a level or five. That way, it only takes effect at mid to high levels, and it's a few fans rather than an army. It keeps the same idea, but nerfs the mechanical effect.

    Actions Speak Louder Than Words is probably a bit over-the-top, though. I'll probably remove it and just have the followers be keyed to a physical stat instead.
    I like that the followers are keyed to a mental stat. After all, it seems odd to attract followers with sheer strength or dexterity... Actually, thinking back to trapeze artists, professional weightlifters, it is possible to attract fans with physical stat. It's just much harder. What if you said "You can use your Charisma score or half a physical score, whatever's higher". That way, you can do it with strength instead of charisma, but it's far more difficult.

    Again, same motivations for this. If he's fighting mooks they will recognize him and be scared, and even people on his level would be wary, etc. Maybe it's over-the-top, but I like the idea. How would you propose fixing it while keeping the flavor?
    I'd just give a bonus to Intimidate checks equal to STR mod or something and point out the section of the rules where you can make intimidate checks to demoralize. If it doesn't exist in 3.5, give an ability to demoralize groups as well.

    The touch AC ability is only given to one-handed combat style users. That is also at level 19, where comparable meleers are doing hundreds of points of damage and the spellcasters and simply rending reality asunder. Not sure if that matters, but it's how I had rationalized it.
    That does make sense. All I was trying to say is, of all the places a Legendary Warrior needs to be better, combat is not one of them.

    Those are good points. Got any advice for how I might go about fixing it, while still keeping the flavor of the class in the mechanics?
    I'd just turn down all the abilities that give it bigger numbers. If the class can beat up any CR-appropriate monster in one round, then that's clearly overpowered. But if it can do so in two or three rounds, then it's fine. You don't need to be that much better at fighting than the Fighter- the Fighter is fine at fighting. You just need to be better at other things.
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    Default Re: Legend Tells of a Legendary Warrior... (3.5 Class) [PEACH]

    I ended up deciding to move up the leadership ability to 10th level and keep it normal charisma-based, so even someone with no charisma mod gets at least five followers when they get it. Other than that, I toned down some of the "more numbers" abilities, and now need to figure out what to do for the Greater Combat Style abilities, since I appear to have lost them at some point XD

    We'll see how it runs in the PbP I'm in.

    Thanks again for the advice.
    Last edited by Forrestfire; 2013-10-21 at 08:29 PM.
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    Default Re: Legend Tells of a Legendary Warrior... (3.5 Class) [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Forrestfire View Post
    Thanks again for the advice.
    No problem! Good luck
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    Default Re: Legend Tells of a Legendary Warrior... (3.5 Class) [PEACH]

    I think I'm allowed to bump after a while, right? In any case, I sadly never got a chance to really playtest this class as the PbP crumpled. Ah well.
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