The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

[Ron Miel]

How do other people feel about a brief description of each update, as Ron Miel suggested?

What does everyone think about this?

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Woo boy! I've got some catching up to do! Thanks, Gwynfrid! These are great. Keep 'em coming folks!

[A_Moon]

Is it worth mentioning that Vaarsuvius is a vegetarian?

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Is it worth mentioning that Vaarsuvius is a vegetarian?

It's something that definitely is worth mentioning, I just need to figure out where i might best go...for instance, maybe the gag we've got going that V is always depicted as eating a grapefruit in the morning.


@Gwyn: Input up to Update #30.

Update 741:

The bottom part of the banner says "Bread! Circuses!"
This is a reference to the ancient Rome, where it was said that people only wanted "panem et circenses" (bread and gladiator fights) to be happy

Do you have a reference for this one?

[Gwynfrid]

Google is your friend: panem et circenses.

And I got a few more comments in over the week-end.

Spoiler

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#52 Panel 12: If Durkon had more ranks in the Knowledge(Religion), ie if he was better at that skill, he'd know that Loki is an evil god, and an enemy of Thor.

#55 Panel 9: The two monsters in this panels are flumphs, another example of an outdated monster from an earlier edition. They have good reason to be saddened by Nale's description, because flumphs are Lawful Good, and pretty weak.

#59 Panel 14: In D&D, a natural roll of 20, that is, 20 on a 20-sided die before bonuses, is always a success, no matter how difficult the action taken is. This means as long as something isn't completely impossible, the chance of success is at least 5%.

#62 Panel 4: As Haley explains here, damage reduction is a defensive quality of certain monsters to shrug off damage from weapons. Most of the time, these monsters have a vulnerability to certain types of weapons, that bypasses their damage reduction.
Panel 8: With the Manyshot feat, Haley can shoot multiple arrows in one attack. If the attack is successful, both arrows will hit.

#64 Panels 2-5: Thog and Roy are discussing character optimization. The Barbarian class has great advantages, notably the ability to enter a rage, boosting Strength and Constitution in a big way for a short while. The Fighter class has more combat feats, special talents the character can choose to improve his fighting prowess. Thog is a Barbarian who optimized by taking a "dip" of 2 levels of Fighter, for 2 bonus feats, but stopped there since the 3rd Fighter level doesn't carry a bonus feat. However, Roy, as a straight Fighter, uses the Weapon Specialization feat that only Fighters of level 4 or higher can learn.

#65 Panel 5: Elves are immune to Sleep spells. Forgetting this is particularly ironic from Vaarsuvius, who is an elf.
Panel 10: Since Zz'dtri is a thinly veiled copy of Drizzt (see #44), Vaarsuvius invokes intellectual property law to have him removed from the scene, as happened to the mind flayer in #32.

#68 This strip illustrates the four basic directions of moral and ethics in the D&D game: Evil, Good, Law, and Chaos (on both axes, the intermediate position is called Neutral). Like many characters before him, Elan finds that Law and Chaos aren't always very clear concepts.

#70 Panel 12: The sylph's eyes turn blue when she uses magic.

#71 Panel 5: A little bit of foreshadowing from Belkar in this panel.
Panel 7: The goblins are carrying boxes labeled "this side up" (upside down, of course), "magic tomes" and "DVDs".

#73 Panel 5: The Atkins diet was extremely popular in the US in 2004, the year this strip was written.
Panel 7: WWTD is a parody of the classic phrase, WWJD (What Would Jesus Do).

#74 Panel 12: A Saving Throw (or Save for short) is a roll to determine if a creature is affected by some magical or other effect. There are 3 types of Saving Throws: Will (for mind-related effects), Fortitude for health-related effects) and Reflex (for effects that can be defended against with a fast reaction). In the 2nd edition of the game, Saving Throws mechanics were quite different, and the Sanctuary spell didn't allow one at all.

#75 Panel 6: When resting for an extended period of time (at least one night), characters naturally heal a few hit points, but this is a much slower method than magical healing. Leaving the cleric behind is an exceptionally stupid mistake.
Panel 6: Epic levels belong to Epic rules, a special set of rules meant for extremely powerful characters (beyond level 20).

#76 Panel 5: Darkvision is a special ability of certain creatures to see in the dark. It doesn't need to be "turned on", but it is indeed used rarely, since adventuring parties nearly always are composed of a mix of difference character races and few of them have this ability.
Panel 10: Dwarves' "stonecunning" ability gives them an innate feeling of the way stone constructions, tunnels, etc. are made.

#77 D&D cleric can convert any of their memorized spells into Cure Wounds spells, so this healing sequence could go on for a while. It is possible to kill an all-cleric party, but it takes more patience than the monster in this strip has.

#82 Panel 1: Like dwarves, goblins have darkvision. But this ability is foiled by magical darkness.

#83 Panel 10: Dwarves are naturally resistant to poison, getting a +2 bonus to saves against it.

#84 For you non-US readers, in panel 4 the "right to the pursuit of happiness" refers to one of the most-often quoted phrases from the US Declaration of Independence.

#85 The last panel is a reference to H.P.Lovecraft's Call of Cthulhu.

#86 Typical dungeon plans, especially those from the early days of the D&D game, don't include any sort of bathroom facilities. Most adventuring groups end up making fun of that quirk at some point.

#87 Panel 6: ECL (Equivalent Character Level) is a characteristic of some monster races, which have more inherent power as humans. In order to make for a balanced party when such races are played, players have to add their race's ECL + their class level to calculate their total level. Other players not using a powerful race will thus need to have a higher class level to be about equal in character power. V's class (wizard) is a primary spellcaster, generally considered to be among the more powerful, which is why Belkar speculates V's presumed "half-camel" race cannot also have high ECL. Naturally, the point is moot since the half-camel race doesn't exist.

#89 Panel 10: V uses an illusion spell to point the way.
Panel 12: An Invisibility spells ends whenever the invisible creature makes an attack. However, attacking an invisible creature carries a 50% miss chance.

#90 Panel 2: The goblins here have apparently read their own entry in the Monster Manual, which states their Intelligence is usually 10, an average score. Xvarts are another race of goblin-like creatures.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Looks like I lost my changes...must of accidentally clicked out of the window instead of saving.... So about 11 entries that I'd thought I'd done, so I'd removed from the workspace. There goes todays work!

I need to be more careful! Ah well, at least it wasn't more!

[Ron Miel]

The bottom part of the banner says "Bread! Circuses!"
This is a reference to the ancient Rome, where it was said that people only wanted "panem et circenses" (bread and gladiator fights) to be happy

Do you have a reference for this one?

Obviously it's a reference to the Star Trek episode.

Not really. ;-P

[DaggerPen]

"'Don't Split the Party' is a reference to '" Is this missing its last half?

[TheWombatOfDoom]

"'Don't Split the Party' is a reference to '" Is this missing its last half?

It's apparently not a reference to anything. But I'm looking anyway. Perhaps a roleplaying mantra learned by players?

[DaggerPen]

Gotcha.

Also, I think the window break gag section is missing this strip - http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0447.html

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Gotcha.

Also, I think the window break gag section is missing this strip - http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0447.html

Input!

@ Everyone - Did some work adding 301 - 400 titles and spoilers. Got too big again so now we have the first 2 posts hosting 200 updates a post. I'm starting to see a trend.

[Gwynfrid]

It's apparently not a reference to anything. But I'm looking anyway. Perhaps a roleplaying mantra learned by players?

Yep. Splitting the party is first and foremost a massive headache for the DM. Second, half of the players have to wait (maybe even in a separate room) while the others are moving forward with the DM. That lasts for a while, then the DM switches between the sub-groups and it's the other half who now have to wait. Not fun, and hardly ever worth it for the players and DM. So you don't split the party (or only for a very short time), even if it would make sense to do so from the characters' perspective.

Another reason not to split is of course the resulting sub-groups being much weaker, as the story arc in Book 4 makes clear.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Saw this project start up yesterday. If we do go with the summary per update, this might be a good resource to port in. I've asked the thread if they'd like to merge over should we be good with the summary, and am waiting for an answer. EDIT: They're cool with it. On this side - I see pros and cons to having a summary.

The MAJOR disadvantage is that even more space gets used in the post to things that are explaining references. It might even bring us down to 100 updates a post. That worries me a bit.

The advantage is that each update is explained well, especially if someone was looking for a particular update and the title or annotation didn't give it away.

So far I've gotten 2 people's feedback -

For: 1 , Against: 1

So any other opinions?

[Gnoman]

Panel 7: Zz'dtri is a dark elf, or drow, which was a monster race in early editions of D&D. With the publication of the Unearthed Arcana expansion rulebook in 1985, dark elves became a playable race.
Panel 8: Since the entire drow race was described by the Monster Manual as evil, the vast majority of players who wished to play a drow described their character as a Chaotic Good outcast, which quickly became a huge cliché.
Panel 9: Zz'dtri is a parody of the popular novel character, Drizzt Do'Urden, by fantasy author R.A.Salvatore. Like his model, Zz'dtri has with two scimitars; however, unlike Drizzt, he is a wizard, making the scimitars more of a fashion choice that a preferred fighting method.
[/SPOILER]

Worth pointing out here:

Spoiler

Show

Drizzt was so popular that he was endlessly copied by players, to the point where "Drizzt Clone" is THE stereotypical character.

[Gwynfrid]

Worth pointing out here:

Spoiler

Show

Drizzt was so popular that he was endlessly copied by players, to the point where "Drizzt Clone" is THE stereotypical character.

My group wasn't that bad, but I can see your point

Saw this project start up yesterday. If we do go with the summary per update, this might be a good resource to port in. I've asked the thread if they'd like to merge over should we be good with the summary, and am waiting for an answer. EDIT: They're cool with it. On this side - I see pros and cons to having a summary.

The MAJOR disadvantage is that even more space gets used in the post to things that are explaining references. It might even bring us down to 100 updates a post. That worries me a bit.

The advantage is that each update is explained well, especially if someone was looking for a particular update and the title or annotation didn't give it away.

So far I've gotten 2 people's feedback -

For: 1 , Against: 1

So any other opinions?

Great idea, and their execution is cool. I'm in favor of merging their input into ours. Sure you'll have to go down to 100 strips per post, but I don't have a problem with that. You'll have to make a new thread, I suppose, but that's OK. For ease of navigation, in the OP, you can just add 10 links to the 10 posts covering the 1000 first strips.
EDIT... And you'll need to create about 5 more placeholder posts to hopefully cover the entirety of the story.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Great idea, and their execution is cool. I'm in favor of merging their input into ours. Sure you'll have to go down to 100 strips per post, but I don't have a problem with that. You'll have to make a new thread, I suppose, but that's OK. For ease of navigation, in the OP, you can just add 10 links to the 10 posts covering the 1000 first strips.
EDIT... And you'll need to create about 5 more placeholder posts to hopefully cover the entirety of the story.

...Alright, so I have 2 for, and 0 against now.

I may have to make a new thread eventually, but I'll probably plan that out better. I suppose I'll port over the whole list when it's done, and then if people disagree with the wording of one, they can request a change or suggest a new one.

ION: I finished re-inputting the work I lost into the "To-Do" bin, so now I can start working on it in earnest.

I'll admit, I've become a bit distracted at the moment by organizing another big project of mine: A Transcription of the Comic. I plan on linking most of the notable threads that pertain to the comic to this project (including that one) to better distribute information. Still working on this though!

If anyone would be interested in contributing to that, I plan on getting most of the current comic done before moving it into the forum, so I know about how much room I might need for the project to be posted. So far I have all but 352 updates done, in various places, with the help of some contributers.

[Gwynfrid]

I'll admit, I've become a bit distracted at the moment by organizing another big project of mine: A Transcription of the Comic. I plan on linking most of the notable threads that pertain to the comic to this project (including that one) to better distribute information. Still working on this though!

This already exists, see for example here. There are some annotations there too, but I think what we're doing is more thorough. A basic transcript, however, would be redundant.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

This already exists, see for example here. There are some annotations there too, but I think what we're doing is more thorough. A basic transcript, however, would be redundant.

It's largely incomplete, and not in a great format. Plus it's not on this forum, so I tend to disagree that it is redundant. I'm also linking to the OP the various translation projects in the forum (most notable being the german translation). I don't plan on working on the Wiki (I don't feel like editing all the mistakes and I don't really know how to edit it well), and while it has a lot of information input, I find it largely unwieldy and such. I've seen a transcription attempted once or twice on here, but the project curators dropped off after awhile. Perhaps I can see it to the current updates and further, a feat that even the wiki has not managed.

[Ron Miel]

About the character limit :

How about if you put each set of updates in a text file, then provide a download link so people can get them.

I've found a free file hosting site :

Lets try the first set and see how it works for people.

Annotations list for updates 1 to 100

Can everyone get that?

Rich text format should work for everyone.


Edit - Actually, I'm not sure if this is viewable for anyone but me. I'll check it out.

Edit again - I've changed the settings. It was private, now marked as public.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

About the character limit :

How about if you put each set of updates in a text file, then provide a download link so people can get them.

I've found a free file hosting site :

Lets try the first set and see how it works for people.

Annotations list for updates 1 to 100

Can everyone get that?

Rich text format should work for everyone.

I actually can't, because of my location when I'm making these (usually at work). I can't even access that page here due to the filter.

[Ron Miel]

I can't even access that page here due to the filter.

Actually, that might be because I had it marked as private. Try again, see if you can get it now.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Actually, I had it marked as private. Try again, see if it can be accessed.

The filter here blocks the whole site. I can't access or DL documents here. I'd be willing to host them as an option, but not as THE resource to the thread, mostly because of this.

[Gwynfrid]

It's largely incomplete, and not in a great format. Plus it's not on this forum, so I tend to disagree that it is redundant. I'm also linking to the OP the various translation projects in the forum (most notable being the german translation). I don't plan on working on the Wiki (I don't feel like editing all the mistakes and I don't really know how to edit it well), and while it has a lot of information input, I find it largely unwieldy and such. I've seen a transcription attempted once or twice on here, but the project curators dropped off after awhile. Perhaps I can see it to the current updates and further, a feat that even the wiki has not managed.

I am in awe of your ambition

OK, it's redundant in the sense that the raw data is (should be) the exact same. But if you can provide a better format, that's a lot of value add. I agree the wiki is unwieldy, especially, it wastes a lot of screen space. I also much prefer for this to be gathered here on the forum.

Anyway, if you're aware of it, good enough for me. You can always copy their text wholesale and fix any errors over here. It's not like they have any IP on the text itself.

For my part, I'll see how far I can go on the annotations, but the transcript is too much for me.

Can everyone get that?

Rich text format should work for everyone.

I tried on my phone and I got a bunch of rtf code thrown at my eyes

I suppose I could always download an app that can read rtf, but we shouldn't expect everybody to do that.

EDIT: Anyway, what's the issue with splitting this over a dozen posts? It's pretty reasonable, considering we'll cover 1000+ strips.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I am in awe of your ambition

OK, it's redundant in the sense that the raw data is (should be) the exact same. But if you can provide a better format, that's a lot of value add. I agree the wiki is unwieldy, especially, it wastes a lot of screen space. I also much prefer for this to be gathered here on the forum.

Anyway, if you're aware of it, good enough for me. You can always copy their text wholesale and fix any errors over here. It's not like they have any IP on the text itself.

For my part, I'll see how far I can go on the annotations, but the transcript is too much for me.


I tried on my phone and I got a bunch of rtf code thrown at my eyes

I suppose I could always download an app that can read rtf, but we shouldn't expect everybody to do that.

EDIT: Anyway, what's the issue with splitting this over a dozen posts? It's pretty reasonable, considering we'll cover 1000+ strips.

On the Transcription: Thanks. I call it crazy, but you can call it ambition too.

The raw data may be the same in certain lights, but it's going to take a lot of time to slog through modifing it. I don't expect this tangent of work to be posted soon. Either way, the wiki only transcibes up to update 771 or so, with some random exceptions peppered into it.

And no need to join me in crazy town, I was just seeing if I could bolster interest. I still appreciate your work and support here!

On the Annotation: I think the best option is to have 15+1 for the OP for the Annotation... that leaves me with 50,000 characters for every 100 posts until the comic reaches 1500 updates. I can possibly use the empty posts for things like the not online books/gags/work space in the mean time. I'll need to fill that space, because while double posting in the homebrew forums for projects is acceptable on a case by case basis, it's not as kosher in other areas, and generally only acceptable when I run out of space. Reserving posts here is unlikely to fly well.

[Gwynfrid]

I have never seen anyone being called out for double posting, especially since the reason for it is explained, as no doubt you will do. I have also seen people reserve post space for future use at the top of the thread for easy reference. When that's useful, there is no reason for anybody to complain, I think.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I have never seen anyone being called out for double posting, especially since the reason for it is explained, as no doubt you will do. I have also seen people reserve post space for future use at the top of the thread for easy reference. When that's useful, there is no reason for anybody to complain, I think.

Just because it doesn't get mention or called out for doesn't mean it is an acceptable action. I've also seen reserved posts in anticipation of overflow, but I'll get a ruling from a Mod before I implement such a system, just to be on the safe side. I've seen many rulings pertaining to the Homebrew subsection only saying that they are expressly allowed there, but not anywhere else in the past.

Double posting in all forms (excluding things like large home-brew posts that can have too many characters for one post) is frowned upon. In almost all instances you should avoid it. In general, you should edit it into your existing post.

Still, having a bunch of blank posts isn't really high on my desired list, so filling them with something (even if it's separating the work area and gags and such) seems more attractive than reserved post 1, 2 & 3.

EDIT: Still, next incarnation of this thread, we will likely still be in the 900's, or early 1000's, and so it might stand to reason that I will not need to reserve posts.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I had a thought, folks.

What if common D & D terms went into a specific area before the annotations? For common things like XP, GP, CP, Skill Checks, and so on. Then we could just reference that area for each thing. It wouldn't be for everything, but it would avoid common terms being identified over and over in detail in multiple updates. Thoughts? Maybe also a link to the SRD for people to use, and perhaps link terms to the term instead of explaining them, similar to how I don't go into much detail about the movies that are referenced, and link them instead.

What do y'all think?

[Gwynfrid]

Good idea. But we shouldn't just remove the explanations in the annotations : Instead, the annotations should link to the relevant term in this D&D glossary. In the same way, you can have the annotations linked to your running jokes section.

We can link to the SRD as a bonus, but that doesn't replace our own term descriptions. The SRD is for people who are interested in the rules. The annotations and our glossary section are for people who are interested in how the comic plays with the rules. Not the same audience, so the wording will be different here than the SRD.

By the way, about running gags: I just found that when Haley's boots' magic is activated, they glow lime green again.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Good idea. But we shouldn't just remove the explanations in the annotations : Instead, the annotations should link to the relevant term in this D&D glossary. In the same way, you can have the annotations linked to your running jokes section.

We can link to the SRD as a bonus, but that doesn't replace our own term descriptions. The SRD is for people who are interested in the rules. The annotations and our glossary section are for people who are interested in how the comic plays with the rules. Not the same audience, so the wording will be different here than the SRD.

By the way, about running gags: I just found that when Haley's boots' magic is activated, they glow lime green again.

Agreed, that sounds like a good plan. I suppose the gags can stay at the last post, and the reference guide can be in the first post. I agree that we shouldn't remove the whole explaination, as they dumb it down for the common reader. Adding the links to things will be a good addition. I unfortunatly can't access the SRD site here, so I'll likely have to rely on others to link.

For the running gag, what is she activating them to do? They're boots of speed...I don't remember what those do...which means we should probably explain that as an annotation.

[Gwynfrid]

For the running gag, what is she activating them to do? They're boots of speed...I don't remember what those do...which means we should probably explain that as an annotation.

It's a Haste spell effect.