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    Default The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    The Fighter




    Hit Die: d10
    Skill Points: 4+Int
    Skill List: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Intimidate; Jump, Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering); Listen; Sense Motive, Spot, Swim
    Weapon Training: The fighter is trained in all simple and martial weapons, as well as 1 exotic weapon of your choice.
    Armor Training: A Fighter is proficient in Light, Medium, and Heavy armor and all shields.

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Bonus Feat, Man of the Line
    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Combat Focus 1
    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Bonus Feat
    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Precision Fit
    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Bonus Feat
    6th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Combat Focus 2
    7th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Bonus Feat
    8th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |Favored Weapon
    9th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |Bonus Feat
    10th|
    +10/+5/
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Combat Focus 3
    11th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Bonus Feat
    12th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |Bastion
    13th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |Bonus Feat
    14th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |Combat Focus 4
    15th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |Bonus Feat
    16th|
    +16/+11/+6/+1
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |Weapons Master
    17th|
    +17/+12/+7/+2
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |Bonus Feat
    18th|
    +18/+13/+8/+3
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |Combat Focus 5
    19th|
    +19/+14/+9/+4
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |Bonus Feat
    20th|
    +20/+15/+10/+5
    |
    +12
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |Legendary Hero[/table]

    DESCRIPTION
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    War never changes. Men create increasingly clever ways of killing each other, drawing upon spell and blade and every ingenious artifact the mind can imagine, but war -- war never changes.

    The men who dedicate themselves to the craft of war, to the sharp lessons of the sword and the chaotic frenzy of battle are a rare breed, but they are present in every generation. These heroes stand tall on every blood-spattered field, they hold the line in the face of every route, they lead every desperate charge. They are the backbone of every army, the heart of every squad. They are Fighters. They are legend.

    Masters sublime and arcane might look at mere swordcraft with disdain, but a Fighter knows the unchanging truth of War -- everything hangs in the instant. Strike at the right moment, and even the mightiest foe will fall. Hesitate, and you are doomed to death and failure. Lesser warriors exploit these moments as the chaos of battle provides advantage. Fighters distinguish themselves by Creating opportunities for themselves and their allies. Fighters shape the flow of battle, always adapting, always creating new ways for their foes to fall. Though a Fighter's prowess is subtle, his versatility allows him to stand with warriors that rely on esoteric power to prove their might.


    CLASS FEATURES

    Bonus Feat: A Fighter is a masterful combatant who learns varied fighting styles over his career. At 1st level and every 2 levels thereafter, the Fighter gains a bonus feat taken from the Fighter Bonus Feat list.

    Man of the Line (Ex): Any man who fights alone, dies alone. A professional warrior knows, first and foremost, that his duty is to protect the men at his side.
    A Fighter of 1st level grants all allies within his reach +2 AC. Enemies treat all squares within his reach as Difficult Terrain.

    Combat Focus (Ex): Professional Soldiers may not have the faith of a Paladin or the enlightened philosophy of a Warblade to carry them through battle, but skill and experience combine to grant the Fighter a uniquely versatile Edge in combat. Combat Focus represents the ability to pick the correct moment and apply these unique knacks.
    The Fighter has a pool of Combat Focus he can spend to activate his Edges. At the beginning of each round, this pool refreshes to maximum – any unspent focus from the previous round is lost.

    Edges (Ex): Edges are mundane tricks and knacks a Fighter has picked up during her career – lacking the explosive power of magic or the polished skill of martial maneuvers, Edges have the advantage of being very flexible. An experienced Fighter can chain together Edges with consummate still, swiftly switching between offense, defense, and control as the situation demands.
    Fighters learn edges from other members of the class. Learning an Edge takes 1 week and 500 gp for an Apprentice Edge, 2 weeks and 1000 gold for a Journeyman Edge, or 3 weeks and 2000 gold for a Master Edge. A Fighter can develop an Edge without training – doing so eliminates the gp cost but triples the time it takes to perfect the Edge. For more on learning edges see Edge System, below.

    Precision Fit (Ex): Fatigue is the greatest enemy a warrior faces in the field – after hours of fighting in plate, even the stoutest heart will be pushed to his limit. Fighting-Men have learned to bear the burden of their armor more easily, allowing them to fight longer and with greater maneuverability than lesser combatants.
    A Fighter of 4th level subtracts her Constitution Modifier from her total Armor Check penalty, and reduces any speed penalty from worn armor by 5 feet.

    Favored Weapon (Ex): A Fighter trains constantly with all types of weaponry, perfecting her lethal skill in any situation. With special effort, the Fighter can adapt her style to a particular weapon, with becomes especially lethal in her hands.
    An 8th level Fighter can train with a particular weapon for 8 hours (combat counts as training), to treat that weapon as a Favored Weapon. When wielding a Favored Weapon, the Fighter inflicts damage as if the weapon were 1 size category larger.
    You may only have 1 favored weapon at a time. Training with a new weapon cancels this benefit on any previous Favored Weapon.

    Bastion (Ex): Armor is a boon to any warrior, but a masterful fighter seems all but invulnerable when properly outfitted.
    A fighter of 12th level gains DR based on the armor he is wearing. Light armor grants DR 1/--; Medium armor grants DR 2/--; Heavy Armor grants DR 3/--. Light shields add 1 to this value, Medium shields 2, and tower shields 3.

    Weapons Master (Ex): A lifetime of training has made the Fighter into a warrior beyond peer.
    Treat any weapon you wield as if it were a Favored Weapon.

    Eternal Warrior (Ex): A Fighter who has attained legendary status is a rare thing indeed – only those who combine flexibility, luck, and consummate skill reach this status. Those that do are forever changed, eternal warriors who will walk the earth until a truly epic foe fells them.
    The Fighter no longer ages, accruing any benefits from old age but ignoring any penalties. The fighter is no longer effected by time, and will live until slain.

    EDGE SYSTEM

    Combat Edges are the result of hard work and experimentation, eventually perfected by experience into versatile techniques that can be initiated at a moment's notice. Edges are most like Sorcerer and Favored Soul spells, in that they do not have to be prepared. However, they can be used many times in the same combat (or even in the same round) like Martial Maneuvers. To match with the theme of flexibility, Edges can even be combined together or used to set up other Edges. This allows the Fighter to contribute to battle in nearly any situation.

    Edges take time to learn -- nobody learns an edge instantly. Instead, Edges are typically taught over the course of weeks, usually at some expense. Additionally, a Fighter cannot learn an edge he cannot activate in combat.

    Learning an Edge is not the same as learning a spell -- Edges must be trained into muscle-memory and then perfected with other maneuvers before a Fighter is practiced enough to use the technique in battle. To learn an edge a Fighter must spend at least 2 hours every day training (combat counts as training) to learn that specific Edge. Once learned, the Edge is permanently a part of the Fighter's ability.

    Edge's can represent a not-inconsiderable part of a Fighter's income -- a fighter may even trade edges with other fighters to learn new battle techniques "free of charge". Some Rare Edges might even be quest rewards -- consider applying skill minimums to these Edges before a fighter can learn them.

    The 30 edges listed below are designed to be completely mundane effects that rise with a fighters skill. Indeed, the very reason the list does not include Edges that cost 4 or 5 points is to encourage versatility in how edges combined at higher levels, rather than have certain "ideal" moves that are constantly used.

    EDGE LIST

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    COMBAT FOCUS EDGES – APPRENTICE

    Damage Boost
    Cost: 1+ Combat Focus
    Action: Not an Action
    Effect: On a successful attack, activate this Edge to increase the damage inflicted by 1d6 per Combat Focus spent.

    Recover Attack
    Cost: 1 Combat Focus
    Action: Immediate
    Effect: Activate this Edge to re-roll an attack. You must use the second result.

    Defensive Roll
    Cost: 1 Combat Focus
    Action: Immediate
    Effect: When an opponent attacks you, you may activate this ability to force the opponent to re-roll their attack. Use the second result to resolve the attack.

    Critical Strike
    Cost: 1 Combat Focus
    Action: Not an Action
    Effect: Activate this Edge when you threaten a critical. You automatically confirm the critical without need to roll.

    Evade Touch
    Cost: 1 Combat Focus
    Action: Not an Action
    Effect: Activate this ability when you are the target of a touch attack. Apply your full AC against that attack.

    Battle Ready
    Cost: 1+ Combat Focus
    Action: Not an Action
    Effect: Activate this Edge before rolling initiative to gain a +2 bonus on your roll per Combat Focus spent. If you roll highest, you are not Flat-Footed and can act normally.

    Footwork
    Cost: 1 Combat Focus
    Action: Not an Action
    Effect: Activate this Edge when you are the target of an Attack of Opportunity. Cancel that Attack of Opportunity.

    Artful Maneuver
    Cost: 1+ Combat Focus
    Action: Not an Action
    Effect: When initiating a Combat Maneuver, activate this Edge to gain a +2 bonus to that maneuver for every Combat Focus spent.

    Pressure Points
    Cost: 1 Combat Focus
    Action: Immediate
    Effect: On a successful attack, activate this Edge to force your opponent to make a Fortitude Save DC (10 + Base Attack) or suffer your choice of the Staggered or Sickened status conditions for 1 round.

    Thwart Casting
    Cost: 1 Combat Focus
    Action: Not an Action
    Effect: Activate this Edge to prevent a caster within your reach from Casting Defensively.

    Deadeye
    Cost: 1+ Combat Focus
    Action: Not an Action
    Effect: Activate this ability to increase the range increment of your weapon by 100% per Combat Focus spent. Additionally, each point spent reduces environmental penalties to your attack by 2.

    Fog of War
    Cost: 1 Combat Focus
    Action: Swift
    Effect: Activate this Edge when Fighting Defensively or taking the Total Defense action to gain partial concealment (20% miss chance). This concealment does not allow you to hide in plain sight.

    COMBAT FOCUS EDGES – JOURNEYMAN

    Pierce Concealment
    Cost: 2 Combat Focus
    Action: Immediate
    Effect: Activate this Edge when you are forced to roll Miss Chance. Ignore that miss chance.

    Hammerblow
    Cost: 2 Combat Focus
    Action: Not an Action
    Effect: Activate this Edge when attacking an opponent to ignore any Damage Reduction they possess for 1 round.

    Tactical Intercession
    Cost: 2 Combat Focus
    Action: Immediate
    Effect: Activate this Edge when an opponent attacks an ally. The opponent must re-roll the attack and use the second result.

    Strategic Strike
    Cost: 2 Combat Focus
    Action: Immediate
    Effect: Activate this Edge when an ally makes an attack roll. Your ally re-rolls that attack and uses the second result.

    Artful Flurry
    Cost: 2 Combat Focus
    Action: Not an Action
    Effect: Activate this Edge when you make a full attack, all attacks made as part of this action are made at your highest attack bonus.

    Sudden Stride
    Cost: 2 Combat Focus
    Action: Immediate
    Effect: Take a move action, even if it is not your turn. If you use this Edge during a full attack Action, you can continue with your attack after reaching your destination square.

    Dirty Fighting
    Cost: 2 Combat Focus
    Action: Immediate
    Effect: On a successful attack, activate this Edge to force your opponent to make a Fortitude Save DC (10 + Base Attack) or suffer your choice of the Slowed or Blind conditions for 1 round.

    Instant Maneuver
    Cost: 2 Combat Focus
    Action: Not an Action
    Effect: On a successful attack, activate this Edge to instantly use a valid Combat Maneuver. If you are using the Full Attack option, this Edge does not interrupt your Full Attack.

    Pinion
    Cost: 2 Combat Focus
    Action: Not an Action
    Effect: Activate this Edge when making an Attack of Opportunity in response to a move action.
    Your opponent cancels their move action and stops in whatever square the Attack of Opportunity was triggered in.

    COMBAT FOCUS EDGES – MASTER

    Flurry of Opportunity
    Cost: 3 Combat Focus
    Action: Not an Action
    Effect: Activate this Edge when making an Attack of Opportunity. You may resolve this Attack of Opportunity as a full attack.

    Finishing Blow
    Cost: 3 Combat Focus
    Action: Standard
    Effect: Activate this Edge make a single attack against an opponent within range. On a hit, your opponent must make a Fortitude Save DC (10 + Base Attack) or be instantly reduced to 0 hp. On a successful save the effect is negated and the opponent takes normal weapon damage.
    Special: You may only activate this Edge after engaging an opponent in combat for at least 3 rounds. On a miss or successful save, you cannot use this ability again for 3 rounds.

    Disrupting Strike
    Cost: 3 Combat Focus
    Action: Inmmediate
    Effect: On a successful hit, your opponent must make a Fortitude save or suffer a Spell Failure Chance equal to (Base Attack x 5%, Max 50%) for 1 round. This Spell Failure Chance applies to all Spells and Spell-Like Abilities, but not to Supernatural Abilities.

    Expose Weakness
    Cost: 3 Combat Focus
    Action: Immediate
    Effect: On a successful attack you may activate this Edge to force your opponent to make a
    Reflex Save DC (10 + base Attack) or take maximum damage from all weapon attacks for 1 round.

    Seize the Moment
    Cost: 3 Combat Focus
    Action: Standard
    Effect: Activate this Edge as a Standard action to grant an ally you can see a Full Attack action, on your initiative count.

    Tactical Positioning
    Cost: 3 Combat Focus
    Action: Swift
    Effect: Activate this Edge to grant an ally you can see a move action on your initiative count.

    Lionheart
    Cost: 3 Combat Focus
    Action: Standard
    Effect: Activate this Edge to grant yourself or an ally within your reach 1 temporary hp/Base
    Attack (Max 20 temporary hp). While these temporary hp persist, the target is Immune to Fear, Confusion, and Domination effects.
    Special: Temporary HP from Lionheart lasts 1 round/level, or until depleted.

    Grit
    Cost: 3 Combat Focus
    Action: Swift
    Effect: Activate this Edge while you or an ally within your reach is under the effects of one or
    more negative status effects. The target makes one Save against a Status effect of her choice at
    the initial Save DC. Success ends that effect.
    Special: You cannot use this ability on an ally that cannot see or hear you.
    Last edited by wayfare; 2013-10-02 at 06:30 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    Hey All:

    This is my attempt at creating a more "mundane" fighter that has a bit more situational versatility than some of my previous attempts. This fighter is designed to be fast and lean, though he lacks the raw power of Initiators of Gish types, he can also go all day and never take a break. He can also change his fighting style at a moments notice to adapt to whatever he is facing.

    As always, any feedback is appreciated. Tier Eyeballing is always a plus!

    Thanks

    --Wayfare

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    I really like this. A good change from the "rar,I hit things" type of fighter,but that doesn't require the bookkeeping of ToB.
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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    When can you learn each tier of Edges?

    That would be kinda important to know.
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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    From what I understood,it seems like the only limit was time and cash,but I could be wrong.
    Washed up Gm in the Playground

    Quote Originally Posted by BrokenChord View Post
    This seems like a level of crazy-talk only you could accomplish.
    Quote Originally Posted by T-Mick View Post
    ... I've played a few games with D20ragon as GM in the past, and I have to vouch for his skill - he's an excellent writer, his world-building is top-notch ... and his games are, while sometimes too ambitious, some of the most fun to be had on these boards.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    It is kind of buried, but you can only learn Edges you can afford to activate in combat.

    Otherwise, you just pay another fighter to train you or spend a lot of time training by yourself.

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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    Yes, but do you learn any automatically, and if so, when?

    Or are you supposed to spend 3 weeks learning your first one?
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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    Yes, but do you learn any automatically, and if so, when?

    Or are you supposed to spend 3 weeks learning your first one?
    You have to be trained in all of them, but feel free to futz with the time it takes to learn them. I run campaigns with lots and lots of downtime, but this system is not for everybody.

    If you want a more condensed timeframe, maybe 2 days training for an Apprentice Edge; 4 days for a Journeyman; 6 days for a Master Edge.

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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    I like this Fighter variant. I like it a lot, actually, and I think I might end up using it in a game I'll be running shortly.

    Honestly, I am not very happy with the capstone, though. Well, that's not true, exactly. It is very flavorful (a fighter so powerful that he can only be killed by the hand of another), but that's about it. There isn't any real mechanical benefit to it besides the bonuses accumulated through age.
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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    One of the best Fighter rewrites I've ever seen. Some criticism and suggestions:

    The class features, Favored Weapon, Bastion, and Weapon Mastery, don't do much for me.

    1) Favored Weapon - At 8th level, an average +1 bonus to damage with a weapon just does not cut it for a useful class feature. How about something like, "once per round when you roll an attack with your favored weapon roll twice and take the best result. If both results would hit, then your attack deals double damage."?

    Or if that seems too fiddly, or seems to slow combat down too much for you, how about, "whenever your attack roll with a favored weapon exceeds the target's AC by 5 or more your attack deals double damage, and whenever your attack roll with a favored weapon fails to hit the target's AC by 5 or less the target still suffers half the damage your attack would have dealt if it successfully hit?"

    2) Bastion - It isn't too bad, but something about it feels slightly weak. Also, medium shields don't exist, there are only light and heavy shields. I guess DR 5/-- while wearing Heavy Armor and carrying a heavy shield doesn't seem too bad, but it doesn't feel great either. I think I would increase the DR a bit if I were you. 3/-- for Medium and 5/-- for Heavy, with 3/-- for a heavy shield and 5/-- for tower shields. That way a decently armored Fighter can compete with a Barbarian for DR, but a turtle-shelled Fighter can outclass the Barbarian.

    3) Weapon Mastery - Again, at 16th level getting an average +1 static damage bonus to all weapons is just a terrible waste of a class feature. You could take either of my suggestions for Favored Weapon and apply them to this feature, but even if you did, I would think, by 16th level, getting those to all weapons is still not astoundingly useful. Maybe in addition to an improved Favored Weapon for all weapons you grant something like, "apply the benefits of any weapon-specific feats, such as Weapon Focus or even Anvil of ThunderCW to all weapons he is proficient with."

    Finally, on the Edge System, I would suggest adding two higher tiers of Edges that cost 4 and 5 Focus respectively. Since they refresh each round, it's not as though a high level Fighter is running out, but also so that the Edge mechanic continues to scale well into higher levels. Right now they get decent stuff up to 10th level, and after that they just keep learning abilities at the same power scale. Some over-the-top, epic-scale abilities for 14th level and up would be great.
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2013-10-03 at 12:38 AM.
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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    I'm guessing you can start learning Edges as soon as you can pay their respective costs with Combat Focus, yes?

    Are there going to be any Edges that cost 4 or 5 Combat Focus?
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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    Thanks for all the feedback, folks! I'm glad this version is being as well received as it is!

    @Zeig: To be honest, I had dead levels in there that I wanted to fill for a short time.
    I'm thinking of replacing Favored Weapon with something like this: Any feats you take that enhance a specific weapon (such as Weapon Focus or Improved Critical) to any weapon you wield. Would that work?

    I'll have to mull over replacements for weapons master and bastion.

    @LOTRfan: By all means, please use it! And if you do, let me know how it plays!

    I've been thinking that, if there are 4 or 5 point Edges, they should probably tied to organisations and form secret "ultimate maneuvers" that the player has the option of learning. These will probably have certain skill prerequisites, though, or certain feats you have to accomplish before you learn the Edge.

    For example, a cabal of mage hunters might teach how to Shatter Enchantments with an attack, or how to draw upon force energy to strike incorporeal foes. An order of ninja might teach the secrets to a style that allows you to tread upon air or cross distance without movement, etc.

    So, in general, there are no 4th and 5th level Edges for regular field grunts. But once you hit 10th level, you may have the option to join one of these organizations to learn secret Edges.

    How does that sound?

    Oh -- what do folks think about tiering this? I think it probably doesnt get above 4...
    Last edited by wayfare; 2013-10-03 at 08:31 AM.

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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    1) Eternal Warrior is listed as Legendary Hero on the table. Also, it feels more (Su) than (Ex) to me. It's also not a particularly powerful capstone, though it is very flavorful. I'm not sure what else you could give the class, though.

    2) Seconding Zeig that fighters should be able to retrain weapon focus, etc, probably from a relatively early level. (but don't let that get in the way of other good class features!) Retraining Favored Weapon could then tie into this.

    3) Is there a limit to how many edges can be learned other than down time available? How is the price paid? Is it in instruction manuals, training materials that are broken, money paid to an instructor, or some combination of the above? Eg, if my fighter finds an edge manual in a dungeon in the wilderness, can he take the time to train before going to sleep every night on the way back, or must he wait to return before finding a master to teach him?
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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    This is actually pretty great. I might run this by my DM for use at a later date.

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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by unbeliever536 View Post
    1) Eternal Warrior is listed as Legendary Hero on the table. Also, it feels more (Su) than (Ex) to me. It's also not a particularly powerful capstone, though it is very flavorful. I'm not sure what else you could give the class, though.

    2) Seconding Zeig that fighters should be able to retrain weapon focus, etc, probably from a relatively early level. (but don't let that get in the way of other good class features!) Retraining Favored Weapon could then tie into this.

    3) Is there a limit to how many edges can be learned other than down time available? How is the price paid? Is it in instruction manuals, training materials that are broken, money paid to an instructor, or some combination of the above? Eg, if my fighter finds an edge manual in a dungeon in the wilderness, can he take the time to train before going to sleep every night on the way back, or must he wait to return before finding a master to teach him?
    Thanks for pointing that out. I'll edit when i get to a computer (stupid android keaybard, grrr).

    As for a limit to Edges, there is none -- just like a wizard, you can learn as many as you like as long as you have the time to spare. I have training via instructir as the default, but you can just as easily learn from a manual, or a dwarven memory crystal, or an elven battlehymn. I im agined the price simply being a combination of gp cost to retain the trainers services, plus that of giving of the Edge to a potential rival.

    That said, i would say that if you have your players out in the field a lot, they should check in with the trainer once to get the basics down, then maybe once every week of training, and a final time to have some sirt of show duel where the Edge can finally be used.

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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    Feats: A feat is a poor class feature past level 2, and every 2nd level your fighter gains a poor class feature. Give something else on even levels as well.

    The armored mobility: why reduce penalties, why not just provide bonuses?

    Gain 5' of speed, period. Gain some bonuses to skills that armor check penalty produces penalties to.

    This makes the lightly armored fighter better, while leaving the heavy armored fighter no worse off.

    Favored Weapon -- at 8th level, why not just increase all weapon dice sizes by 1 step? The "only one weapon" seems like a needless restriction.

    Bastion -- again, bias towards heavy armored folks. And that little DR is nearly worthless for a 12th level feature.

    Maybe split it somehow, so the light armor fighters get some advantage (dodge bonus? Parry mechanics?) as well?

    Weapon's Master: An entire class feature just to remove the needless restriction at level 8. Grant this at level 8, don't make it two class features.

    Edges: No auto-learning of edges as you gain levels?

    "Damage Boost" -- more flavor. "Deady Blow" or something.

    "Defensive Roll" -- so, abilities like this are why your edge points should refresh at the END of your turn (after any delayed actions), not at the start of your turn. Saving points for a possible roll vs spending points on a roll and losing the ability to use them next turn.

    "If you roll highest, you are not Flat-Footed and can act normally." -- huh?

    "Combat Maneuver" -- PF?

    "Pressure Points" -- why two effects in one edge? Also, strange name.

    "Fog of War" -- how about just a 20% miss chance that isn't partial concealment? Seems better than "partial concealment, but not partial concealment".

    "Your opponent cancels their move action" -- ends their move action?

    "Disrupting Strike" -- by the time you have 3 CF, you are already basically at 50%. Why have a formula?

    "maximum damage from all weapon attacks for 1 round." -- exploding damage wants a word with you.

    But "save or lose" is valid as well.

    "Lionheart" -- the temporary HP are so small it isn't even funny. The fact that the immunity goes away when the target is damaged is about all they do: I guess it might boost a wizard's HP up a touch. It also means some "prebuffing" goes on before fights. In combat use seems highly questionable.

    There are no edges above level 10 on the list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander
    1) Favored Weapon - At 8th level, an average +1 bonus to damage with a weapon just does not cut it for a useful class feature. How about something like, "once per round when you roll an attack with your favored weapon roll twice and take the best result. If both results would hit, then your attack deals double damage."?
    Just grant double-rolls on all attacks.


    So, in general, there are no 4th and 5th level Edges for regular field grunts. But once you hit 10th level, you may have the option to join one of these organizations to learn secret Edges.
    There are *no* level 11 "regular field grunts". 11th level fighters are tougher than Beowulf, and can single-handedly kill dragons the size of small houses.

    ---

    Another approach for level 11+ would be to pull off a pseudo-PrC system.

    Have "Legendary Warrior" tracks with in-world requirements to start. Give examples.

    Each level you get a "Legendary Warrior" point, and can use them to advance along a track.

    "Dragon Heart" would be a simple one: you need to drink the heart-blood of a dragon. We then create a 10 level track of attribute-increases, (Su) abilities and the like.

    "Knight of the Geometric Room" might be another: you need to be part of a particular order.

    "Wandering Warrior" might be a track that has no requirements.

    Each such "Legendary Warrior" track could then provide access to some special edges (costing 4 or 5 or 6).

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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    Feats: A feat is a poor class feature past level 2, and every 2nd level your fighter gains a poor class feature. Give something else on even levels as well.

    The armored mobility: why reduce penalties, why not just provide bonuses?
    The feats don't hurt, and feats are what a fighter does. I think that having the class gain feats makes sense.

    I, personally, like the armor interactions going on here, too.

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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by wayfare View Post
    @Zieg: To be honest, I had dead levels in there that I wanted to fill for a short time.
    I'm thinking of replacing Favored Weapon with something like this: Any feats you take that enhance a specific weapon (such as Weapon Focus or Improved Critical) to any weapon you wield. Would that work?
    That could work, sure. The problem with handing it out at 8th level, rather than much earlier would be that such a feature only becomes useful if you build for it, and if you don't have it until 8th, a novice player would get very little use out of it.

    I say, go for it, but allow retraining of Bonus Feats after a certain amount of in-game time. Like 8 hours of practice per feat retrained? Something like that. That way it remains useful.

    I'll have to mull over replacements for weapons master and bastion.
    Bastion is mostly an okay ability, as I said, I would just buff it up some. Weapons Master could be what you call the 8th level feature. So, then, at 16th, maybe give them...

    Weapon Supremacy (Ex): Whenever you make a weapon attack roll and it exceeds the target's AC by 5 or more your attack deals double damage, and whenever you make a weapon attack roll that fails to hit the target's AC by 5 or less the target still suffers half the damage your attack would have dealt on a successful hit.

    I've been thinking that, if there are 4 or 5 point Edges, they should probably tied to organisations and form secret "ultimate maneuvers" that the player has the option of learning. These will probably have certain skill prerequisites, though, or certain feats you have to accomplish before you learn the Edge.

    For example, a cabal of mage hunters might teach how to Shatter Enchantments with an attack, or how to draw upon force energy to strike incorporeal foes. An order of ninja might teach the secrets to a style that allows you to tread upon air or cross distance without movement, etc.

    So, in general, there are no 4th and 5th level Edges for regular field grunts. But once you hit 10th level, you may have the option to join one of these organizations to learn secret Edges.

    How does that sound?
    I think this is a very cool idea.

    Oh -- what do folks think about tiering this? I think it probably doesnt get above 4...
    As it stands, yes, it probably only reaches Tier 4; however if you add a few more utility and mobility options in the Focus 1, 2, and 3 categories, and then if you add the "secret special moves" in Focus 4, and 5, then I'm sure it could move to a respectable Tier 3. Poach my Warblade rewrite for ideas!
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2013-10-03 at 12:42 PM.
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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    The feats do hurt if you consider "you gain a feat" to fill the "dead level" checkbox.

    Sure, give feats: but a feat is not a full blown class feature at level 18. Almost certainly the feat gained at level 18 will be less useful for the character than the feats gained at level 1-10. So now we are giving your class a worse class feature at level 18 than at level 2.

    Give feats every even level. That is a decent class feature to gain at level 1 and 2. By level 4 to 8, you should be getting something else as well.

    Don't smear features over the class just to smear features over the class. Spending 2 class features on +1-2 damage per hit (outside of cheese interactions) is feature smearing (the mastery thing): and again, the level 8 feature (+damage on the weapon type you use the most) is better than the 16 feature (+damage on weapon types that are not the weapon types you use the most).

    The heavy armor bonuses are both cute and common in many fighter rewrites: but the high-dex fighter in leather is as much a fighter as the heavily armored tank, yet these features are useless to that fighter. Instead, you could grant different bonuses depending on the armor type?

    ACP applies to Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, and Tumble and double on Swim.

    Bonuses to Climb, Balance, Jump and Swim are reasonably fighter-esque.

    Grant a (Class level) bonus to Climb, Balance, Jump and Swim, and then give the fighter "skill picks" to spread this bonus to other str/con/dex based skills, and you make up for ACP on armor, and out of armor the character becomes more competent.

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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    I like this fighter rework. It has less bookeeping than ToB and gives the fighter actual abilities while still allowing plenty of feats to pick your desired weapon style. It like how simple the design is, a lot of fighter reworks, mine included, go overboard with over complicated abilities.
    One thing I would suggest is perhaps giving the tumble skill on the skill list.
    Last edited by ddude987; 2013-10-03 at 01:12 PM.
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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    Thanks for the great feedback! Here are a few class features I have fiddled with!

    Weaponmaster (Ex): 4th Level
    Any feats you take that apply to a specific weapon (such as Weapon Focus or Improved Critical) apply to all weapons you are proficient with.

    Custom Fit (Ex): 8th Level
    Reduce the total Armor Check Penalty of your gear by your Constitution modifier. Add your Constitution Modifier to the Max Dex Bonus of worn armor.

    Esoteric Weapon Master (Ex): 12th level
    You can activate wands that produce Evocation or Abjuration effects. Treat this as a Use Magic Device check, substituting your Base Attack Bonus for ranks in the Use Magic Device skill.
    Any wand that produces a weaponlike spell (most often a ray) benefits from the Weaponmaster class feature.

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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by wayfare View Post
    Esoteric Weapon Master (Ex): 12th level
    You can activate wands that produce Evocation or Abjuration effects. Treat this as a Use Magic Device check, substituting your Base Attack Bonus for ranks in the Use Magic Device skill.
    Any wand that produces a weaponlike spell (most often a ray) benefits from the Weaponmaster class feature.
    This is a cool idea but I feel it isn't in flavor. As you stated yourself, this is a mundane fighter fix, so why let him use magic. UMD is something that rogues and warlocks get, not something I see a fighter using.
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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by wayfare View Post
    Thanks for the great feedback! Here are a few class features I have fiddled with!

    Weaponmaster (Ex): 4th Level
    Any feats you take that apply to a specific weapon (such as Weapon Focus or Improved Critical) apply to all weapons you are proficient with.
    Fine.

    Custom Fit (Ex): 8th Level
    Reduce the total Armor Check Penalty of your gear by your Constitution modifier. Add your Constitution Modifier to the Max Dex Bonus of worn armor.
    How about, "You do not suffer penalties to your speed for wearing medium or heavy armor. Furthermore, reduce the total Armor Check Penalty of your gear by your Constitution modifier. Finally, when wearing Medium or Heavy armor you gain damage reduction. This DR is not overcome by magic or any special material and is equal to your Constitution modifier when wearing Medium armor or double your Constitution modifier when wearing Heavy armor."

    This feature needs to be powerful. I do not agree that Light armor needs to get an equivalent boost, because Light armor (and High Dexterity) is already way better than Medium or Heavy armor.

    Esoteric Weapon Master (Ex): 12th level
    You can activate wands that produce Evocation or Abjuration effects. Treat this as a Use Magic Device check, substituting your Base Attack Bonus for ranks in the Use Magic Device skill.
    Any wand that produces a weaponlike spell (most often a ray) benefits from the Weaponmaster class feature.
    This is awful and woefully out of place on a Fighter class.
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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    How about, "You do not suffer penalties to your speed for wearing medium or heavy armor. Furthermore, reduce the total Armor Check Penalty of your gear by your Constitution modifier. Finally, when wearing Medium or Heavy armor you gain damage reduction. This DR is not overcome by magic or any special material and is equal to your Constitution modifier when wearing Medium armor or double your Constitution modifier when wearing Heavy armor."

    This feature needs to be powerful. I do not agree that Light armor needs to get an equivalent boost, because Light armor (and High Dexterity) is already way better than Medium or Heavy armor.
    While I agree with you on what you said and how you reworked the ability, giving DR over dex bonus means touch ac won't increase. Apologies for poor wording.
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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    I like the idea of a lasergun wielding fighter, but you all are right -- it should probably be subsumed into a feat or something.

    Here is a feature I typically include in my Fighter type classes, but for some reason did not include here. Any thoughts on how it might work?

    Combat Maneuverability (Ex):
    The Full Attack option now only requires a Standard Action.

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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by ddude987 View Post
    While I agree with you on what you said and how you reworked the ability, giving DR over dex bonus means touch ac won't increase. Apologies for poor wording.
    To be fair, Evade Touch is available early on, so nasty ray spells shouldn't be too much of an issue when you learn that (and you will learn it -- it just takes 1 lucky disintegrate to ruin your day!)

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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by wayfare View Post
    I like the idea of a lasergun wielding fighter, but you all are right -- it should probably be subsumed into a feat or something.

    Here is a feature I typically include in my Fighter type classes, but for some reason did not include here. Any thoughts on how it might work?

    Combat Maneuverability (Ex):
    The Full Attack option now only requires a Standard Action.
    I like it. This is what I gave the fighter in my rework (in my sig). I would limit it to once per round though so the fighter can't abuse it by generating actions.
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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    That works for me.
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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by wayfare View Post
    Oh -- what do folks think about tiering this? I think it probably doesnt get above 4...
    It's Tier 4, nice and solid.
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    Default Re: The Fighter: War -- War Never Changes

    This is a great fix. The mechanics (seems to) make it super interesting and fun to be a fighter.

    While i agree there are some things that need tweaking, i unfortunately don΄t have the time... So i leave it in your capable hands.

    Just wanted to give you a thumbs up

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