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2013-10-07, 08:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Location
- Somerville, MA
- Gender
Is my combat system clunky? If so, could you help streamline it?
I've been trying to come up with a combat system that's a bit more interesting out of the box than what you get with D&D. I'd like there to be choices every round, for characters of all skills, not just those who bought all the maneuvers.
I think what I've come up with might be too clunky though. I've been stuck on this point because I can't decide if I have to rewrite the combat system or if it's a good idea and I should keep it.
That I'm posting this at all indicates that, yeah, it's probably slow. I'm interested in any ideas that will speed it up. I'm open to dropping some of the overhead if that's the only way to speed things up, but I'm hesitant to do that without a playtest.
Anyway, here's what I've got.
First off, there's no basic damage attack. You're either going to attack a limb or do a maneuver like a trip or disarm. Since you don't have a default swing for damage attack, this imposes an extra decision on the player.
Next, there's a pseudo status effect for whether two combatants are engaged. This means they've got their swords raised and they're facing each other. It's easier to defend yourself against someone you've engaged. But your attention is limited, so if three people jump you you won't be able to engage them all at once.
There's also advantage, which is going to tie into reach in a moment. Consider sword vs spear. At first, the spear guy has an advantage since he has a chance to hit the sword guy right away. But once the sword guy moves past the tip of the spear, into spear guy's guard, he has an advantage.
Finally reach. Each weapon has a reach stat. The difference between your reach and your opponent's reach will be the numerical bonus provided by advantage. My goal is to make this stat something the player's can vary. Brawling and grappling will provided long weapon wielders with some close quarters attacks. Some weapons will have different stances for manipulating their reach as well.
After that, it's an opposed skill check and degree of success determines damage.
So compared to D&D that adds a decision, two status effects, a little arithmetic, and the possibility of more decisions to manipulate that arithmetic. Each of those changes seems reasonable on their own, but together they seem like too much.If you like what I have to say, please check out my GMing Blog where I discuss writing and roleplaying in greater depth.
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2013-10-07, 08:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
- Location
- Midwest, not Middle East
- Gender
Re: Is my combat system clunky? If so, could you help streamline it?
I read all your words, and all I can think of is Riddle of Steel. It's a game which is supposed to have all of these things you want. Check it out.
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2013-10-07, 09:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Location
- Somerville, MA
- Gender
Re: Is my combat system clunky? If so, could you help streamline it?
That's been in my reading list forever. I'll load it up on my Nook as soon as I'm done with my current novel.
(Incidentally I hear RoS works well for duels, but fails at mass combat. I was worried about that in my system too and that's what engagement is supposed to address.)If you like what I have to say, please check out my GMing Blog where I discuss writing and roleplaying in greater depth.
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2013-10-08, 01:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
Re: Is my combat system clunky? If so, could you help streamline it?
Unless you want to have an attack per second (that almost always fails), people do not decide to attack a given limb for each attack.
They look for openings, threaten or attack where they think their opponent is weak, abort and recover if the enemy looks like they are going to defend.
You don't "choose" to attack the enemies foot, you attack the foot because the enemy left it exposed. The enemy did not choose to leave the foot exposed -- either the enemy screwed up and didn't know they where exposing their foot, or the enemy was "forced" to expose something by an earlier attack.
Against someone lacking gear/skill/etc compared to you, you might simple power through their defences -- or, given your relative skill levels, there might be only 1 or 2 spots where they are effectively defending themselves, and you can choose between the other ones.
In short, "I attack your left arm" is both far too detailed, and not detailed enough.
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2013-10-08, 01:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
Re: Is my combat system clunky? If so, could you help streamline it?
I strongly agree with Yakk. The only way limb-based attacks would make sense is if you introduce a mechanic to have separate defense values for each limb that fluctuate semirandomly throughout the combat. However, that's crazy, so don't do that.
Rise (PDF) - a new RPG based on the d20 system. Last updated November 2016
Avatar by Kris on a Stick
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2013-10-08, 04:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2012
- Location
- In the Playground, duh.
Re: Is my combat system clunky? If so, could you help streamline it?
Limb-based attacks kind of worked with D&D 3.X's Called Shot mechanic - a basic attack is "I just want to hit them, so I'll hit them in the area they left exposed," while a called shot is "I want to make sure they can't walk, so I'll hit their leg." If you want to have a way of attacking a specific body part, you need to make it optional and uncommon, because that's how real fighting actually happens.
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2013-10-08, 05:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
Re: Is my combat system clunky? If so, could you help streamline it?
Rise (PDF) - a new RPG based on the d20 system. Last updated November 2016
Avatar by Kris on a Stick
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2013-10-08, 07:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Location
- Somerville, MA
- Gender
Re: Is my combat system clunky? If so, could you help streamline it?
Interesting. I don't think that occurred to me before but it makes a ton of sense. I've played a bunch of games with called shots, but I guess those were always focused on ranged weapons, where it does make more sense.
Two follow up questions.
1. How would you do hit locations? Just make them random? What if I'm not using dice?
2. For the sake of discussion let's say I cut that part out entirely. It wasn't really coupled to the rest of the system and I can ignore it without changing much else. How does the rest of the combat sound?If you like what I have to say, please check out my GMing Blog where I discuss writing and roleplaying in greater depth.
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2013-10-08, 07:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
Re: Is my combat system clunky? If so, could you help streamline it?
Next, there's a pseudo status effect for whether two combatants are engaged. This means they've got their swords raised and they're facing each other. It's easier to defend yourself against someone you've engaged. But your attention is limited, so if three people jump you you won't be able to engage them all at once.
Originally Posted by Rise
There's also advantage, which is going to tie into reach in a moment. Consider sword vs spear. At first, the spear guy has an advantage since he has a chance to hit the sword guy right away. But once the sword guy moves past the tip of the spear, into spear guy's guard, he has an advantage.
Finally reach. Each weapon has a reach stat. The difference between your reach and your opponent's reach will be the numerical bonus provided by advantage. My goal is to make this stat something the player's can vary. Brawling and grappling will provided long weapon wielders with some close quarters attacks. Some weapons will have different stances for manipulating their reach as well.Rise (PDF) - a new RPG based on the d20 system. Last updated November 2016
Avatar by Kris on a Stick
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2013-10-08, 10:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
Re: Is my combat system clunky? If so, could you help streamline it?
This reminds me a bit of both GURPS and Burning Wheel. You might want to look into how they handled things.
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.