Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

[yougi]

Which do you believe to be a cheap trick? Personally I believe that is why the ex-something headers are.

I'm not sure what you mean by "ex-something header", but I believe the ruling from CAr/CW is meant to apply to all PrCs.

That being said, a few more stats: most common Sworn Foes:

{table]Category|#
Outsider (evil)|5
Human|2
Undead|2
Organizations|2
Arcane spellcasters|1
Humanoid (elves)|1
Humanoid (halflings) |1
Shadowlands Oni|1
Unspecified|2[/table]

Whenever the specified Foe was narrower than the chairman's ruling, I used the associated category (except for the Onis, because I have no idea what these are, to be honest).

You may also be interested to know that 4 dishes consider their own races as their Sworn Foes (that is, considering Rand Turimbar's Drow as including all elves).

[thethird]

the shadowlands oni will probably be outsider (evil)

[yougi]

the shadowlands oni will probably be outsider (evil)

Fixed. What book is that from?

[dysprosium]

Fixed. What book is that from?

Oriental Adventures

[thethird]

Oriental Adventures is probably a good book to read for this round, skimming through the entries at least 3 dishes use the fluff of it. It was the first book in which Taint appeared, and the only setting with taint as a common mechanic.

[OMG PONIES]

Oriental Adventures is probably a good book to read for this round, skimming through the entries at least 3 dishes use the fluff of it. It was the first book in which Taint appeared, and the only setting with taint as a common mechanic.

...I remembered precisely 30 seconds after declaring myself out of ideas .

[Curmudgeon]

That is what I meant by contested, some people argue that since the DM is the primary source for Prestige classes, that particular ruling only apply to prestige classes in those books (CArc & CWar), some people argue that the rule applies to every prestige class (Introducing the Schrodingeir Dragon Disciple/Ur-Priest dysfunction)

What rule (singular) are you referring to? There's a rule in Complete Warrior (page 16) and a rule in Complete Arcane (page 17). Those two rules are substantially different.

[Amphetryon]

Oriental Adventures is probably a good book to read for this round, skimming through the entries at least 3 dishes use the fluff of it. It was the first book in which Taint appeared, and the only setting with taint as a common mechanic.

We'll see if the judges consider the primacy of the Taint mechanic in OA important, or whether they prefer to consider the most recent source the most valid, trumping the previous (3.0) appearance.

[Kuulvheysoon]

We'll see if the judges consider the primacy of the Taint mechanic in OA important, or whether they prefer to consider the most recent source the most valid, trumping the previous (3.0) appearance.

Thanks. Speaking of, why don't I get down to business?

Ruling the Fourth: Consider Heroes of Horror to be the primary source for the Taint rules.

Judges, please do not forget to take this into account when scoring builds.

[thethird]

We'll see if the judges consider the primacy of the Taint mechanic in OA important, or whether they prefer to consider the most recent source the most valid, trumping the previous (3.0) appearance.

I didn't attempt to imply that the rules of OA for taint should be used. Just pointing where it originally appeared.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I also had a Vizzini'd idea of using Tainted Sorcerer to progress the SI's casting progression...

Of course, with Undead, without the house rule defined about them not being able to gain taint, this doesn't lead to an infinite loops with arbitrarily high DC's, but with Taint Suppression, as long as you stay out of a tainted area, you can still get stupidly high DC's. Then you just grab some other way of tacking on more spells to your spell list.

[Vaz]

How does taint suppression work with gaining stupidly high DC's? It lowers your Con, reducimg your max taint score.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

How does taint suppression work with gaining stupidly high DC's? It lowers your Con, reducimg your max taint score.

I see nothing in the class ability Taint Supression on page 89 that talks about lowering con. What it does is let you cap out your taint score to just under actually killing yourself and function completely normally. So with judicious con-boosting, you can achieve some exceedingly high DC's.

[Vaz]

You get a Taint Symptom which has no visible signs, but causes -2 Con in pkace of randomly rolling.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You get a Taint Symptom which has no visible signs, but causes -2 Con in pkace of randomly rolling.

But since you only gain one taint symptom per category, that is at most a -6 to Con. Which can be compensated via magic items. Pumping Con isn't too difficult.

Let's say you can pump your Con score to 38. That will drop your Con to a 32, which means you can be sitting on 110 Depravity which puts your DC's at 65+ Spell Level...

[Haluesen]

Just decided I wanted to post the bit of idea for this that I had worked on. See what people think, maybe I can include it in a campaign at some point.

The plan was going to be a Warlock with some psionic ability, likely from race and Wild Talent, who was part of a family that willingly served mind flayers and just hated the very idea of them. So left his family to join a group of people devoted to fighting evil psionic-using monsters (Sanctified Mind), but left them when he felt they weren't doing enough and became a Corrupt Avenger, willing to sacrifice his very soul to hunting down and crushing mind flayers. Was likely going to have to throw in another class to meet the Sanctified Mind requirements, probably ranger since it fits the idea. The whole shtick was in combining eldritch glaive with Psionic Weapon to deal heavy damage to his sworn enemy, aided by the Corrupt Avenger's other bonuses. Like I said I never got to work on the full thing. Think this may have worked at all? Anyone have any comments on this so I could make it work well in a campaign?

[The Viscount]

If it's mind flayers your character is about destroying, the "Slayer" prestige class is right up that alley. I love the srd entry for this class, since they can't talk about the very creature this class is about fighting.

[Gwachitallemall]

I did all the numbers for this, however I don't exactly know how to do the tables.. so here it is.
Entries: 16 Levels in Entries: 307 Average Level, Percentage
Battle Dancer: 1 1 .8%
Totemist 2 2 1.1%
Half Orc Paragon: 3 3 1.4%
Human Paragon: 3 3 1.4%
Ranger: 3 1 1.4%
Rogue: 3 3 1.4%
Soulborn: 4 4 1.7%
Fighter: 4 4 1.7%
Swordsage: 5 2.5 1.7%
Incarnate: 5 5 1.7%
Duskblade 6 3 2%
Barbarian: 8 2.66 2.6%
Crusader: 9 4.5 2.9%
Paladin: 10 5 3.3%
Warblade: 11 5.5 3.6%
Spellthief: 21 5.25 6.8%
Bone Knight 1 1 .8%
Mage of the Arcane Order: 1 1 .8%
Maho-Tsukai: 1 1 .8%
Soldier of Light: 1 1 .8%
Soulcaster: 2 2
Rage Mage: 3 3
Jade Phoenix Mage: 4 4 1.7%
Telflammar Shadowlord: 4 4 1.7%
Unseen Seer: 4 4 1.7%
Avenging Executioner: 5 5 2%
Maho Bujin: 7 7 2.3%
Swiftblade: 9 9 2.9%
Hellreaver: 14 4.66 4.6%
Corrupt Avenger: 143 8.9375 46.58%

[Tim Proctor]

@Gwachitallemall, here you go. Soulcaster and Rage Mage are missing info. Also curious as to how this is supposed to help judges in quantifying the data?

{table=head]Entries: 16 |Levels in Entries: 307 |Average Level, |Percentage
Battle Dancer: |1 |1| .8%
Totemist| 2 |2 |1.1%
Half Orc Paragon: |3 |3| 1.4%
Human Paragon:| 3 |3 |1.4%
Ranger:| 3| 1| 1.4%
Rogue:| 3| 3| 1.4%
Soulborn:| 4 |4 |1.7%
Fighter: |4 |4 |1.7%
Swordsage: |5 |2.5 |1.7%
Incarnate:| 5| 5 |1.7%
Duskblade |6 |3 |2%
Barbarian:| 8 |2.66 |2.6%
Crusader:| 9 |4.5| 2.9%
Paladin: |10| 5 |3.3%
Warblade: |11|5.5 |3.6%
Spellthief:| 21| 5.25| 6.8%
Bone Knight|1 |1 |.8%
Mage of the Arcane Order: |1 |1 |.8%
Maho-Tsukai:| 1 |1 |.8%
Soldier of Light: |1 |1 |.8%
Soulcaster: |2| 2| ?
Rage Mage:| 3| 3| ?
Jade Phoenix Mage:| 4| 4 |1.7%
Telflammar Shadowlord: |4 |4 |1.7%
Unseen Seer:| 4 |4 |1.7%
Avenging Executioner: |5 |5 |2%
Maho Bujin: |7 |7 |2.3%
Swiftblade: |9 |9 |2.9%
Hellreaver: |14 |4.66 |4.6%
Corrupt Avenger: |143 |8.9375| 46.58%[/table]

[Gwachitallemall]

It's probably not. Didn't realize on rage mage and soulcaster. 1.4 and 1.1% for 3 and 2 respectively. Thanks for the help. I've seen it done in prior Iron Chefs.

[thethird]

But since you only gain one taint symptom per category, that is at most a -6 to Con. Which can be compensated via magic items. Pumping Con isn't too difficult.

Let's say you can pump your Con score to 38. That will drop your Con to a 32, which means you can be sitting on 110 Depravity which puts your DC's at 65+ Spell Level...

But wouldn't it be better if you just take other effects that do not reduce con? I mean it is much easier to raise con to 32 than to 38 (even with magic items) and you are getting the same effect. In fact there is at least one dish using high amounts of taint.

On how helpful the table for levels is... I don't see much utility for it

[Dusk Eclipse]

re: table, perhaps some judge might use it for originality?

[Amphetryon]

re: table, perhaps some judge might use it for originality?

That would be possible, but. . . odd, since the way the table is constructed, a hypothetical trio of Characters who dipped Ranger 2 would show as "more Original" than a single Character with Duskblade 8.

[Dusk Eclipse]

You mean by the percentage? I was mostly thinking on seeing at a glance which where the most common classes used.

[Gwachitallemall]

Well, average level shows you how many levels were taken in it by the amount of entries that took it. Which clears the issue about the originality thing. I almost only did percentage for the higher amounts, you'll probably notice under about 8 I stopped really dividing them and checking, just subtracting .3% which is what I'd noticed was being subtracted each time.

[Amphetryon]

You mean by the percentage? I was mostly thinking on seeing at a glance which where the most common classes used.

It also shows levels taken. If three folks took Ranger 2, and one person took Duskblade 8, the numbers would show as "Ranger 6" and "Duskblade 8," giving Ranger an at-a-glance advantage in Originality (since I don't read the table as accounting for number of entries taking a given Class, only the total representation of the Class spread out amongst the entries).

[Dusk Eclipse]

I did not account for that

[Gwachitallemall]

True. Could take the table, add another level to it saying amount of entries. As there was already another table with that information, I was just going to cover the basics of how many class levels there were.

[Korahir]

Judging update:

8 done, but will need a second look after judging all. So I hope I'll be finished around thursday, friday.

[relytdan]

update - a few builds left to check might have something to post in a few days.