A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #391
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Magralyx
    the fluff explains this as the inquisitor having used a Helm of Opposite Alignment on her). Therefore, she qualifies for the SI.

    this would preclude in the first place DM cooperation "rules interpretation" in getting access to the item, that said you would then see a huge penalty for the use of this item as it is pivital for the build to have. (-2) as well as a penalty for change of alignment mid build penalty
    at my table I go strictly by the alignment condition of the monster when useing monsters as PC's.

    I allowed 1.75 paragrpahs for an average length - a paragraph is roughly 8-9 sentences
    Into the Deep End - 1 paragraph
    The Makings of a Queen - 1 paragraph
    Corruption Uncovered - 1+ paragraphs
    Vengeance - 1 paragraph

    ** build would see the maximum penalty of -1 here

    items/equipment"
    Is this in reference to the Helm of Opposite Alignment? Because RAW, that isn't required

    if its not required then you do not meet the requirements of the SI- as the alignment condition of the monster would prevent this, thus maximum penalty for UotSI.

    not doing something interesting - as this is subjective to each judge as it has been stated in past competitions, I did score this with a -.5 as i did several others as I felt i would be generous for a first go at judging - fact is on this build it would have scored (-.75) as i dont find spell like or use of polymorph interesting or versitile enough.


    Magralyx Original score Stands ( unless you want a lower score...)

    score 11.75



    The Lost Crab
    readjusted New Score ( 14.25 )
    Human
    score adjusted to -.5
    yes it seems this was in error and will adjust the score in this section

    Fluff I allowed 1.75 paragrpahs for an average length - a paragraph is roughly 8-9 sentences
    score stands.


    scout and as a melee fighter, breath weapons - yes semi versitle thus only a -.5 - the build does not cast, heal, sneak attack ect....
    score stands


    rules interpreted, the allowance of the Maho Bujin would in fact be a rules interpretation as it is a Shadowlands PRC and most have some form of taint immunity or supression - this one seems to have it in exess and would have seen extra penalties
    score stands


    UotSI - feel of the SI while subjective to each judge - I felt the use of the PRC gave me the wrong impression of the SI
    While I scored NO builds for Taint gain or Loss and the effects that go with it - this would have seen more penalties if I had.
    score stands

  2. - Top - End - #392
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    I have never before been made aware that a paragraph had such a narrowly defined number of sentences. . . .
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  3. - Top - End - #393
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    I have never before been made aware that a paragraph had such a narrowly defined number of sentences. . . .
    It doesn't, this is a bad joke. The "unless you want it lower" comments shows they aren't interested in fair, balanced, but instead would rather troll and defend their wrong statements. BTW neither of those were characters I submitted.

    Th SI has taint supression so having it from another source is just carrying the flavor of the SI.
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  4. - Top - End - #394
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Paragraphs are not defined in D&D

    Alignments are and PCs are unique by definition; there are precedents of this such as all those emo dark elves rangers dual wielding scimitars and more relevantly Eludecia

    Also...

    Are builds being penalized for using taint? Really?
    Last edited by thethird; 2013-10-31 at 07:58 AM.
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

  5. - Top - End - #395
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    I have never before been made aware that a paragraph had such a narrowly defined number of sentences. . . .
    you are correct Fluff is the descriptive of the build as such is presented in paragraph form, paragraph are not defined by D&D - they are subjective to each judge on what each judge determines
    -a paragraph has three to five sentences
    I was being generous in my opinion for allowing 8-9 with no penalty

    Alignments are and PCs are unique by definition- strictly speaking by raw what a race sets as the alignment is the alignment of the pc if during the course of a build that happens to change then that is dm cooperation and or considered " rules interpretation" in my book.

    comments shows they aren't interested in fair, balanced -
    on the contrary it shows that due consideration was given , the build was judged fairly and balanced based on criteria; the build in question if under the premise of using a specific item would certainly have scored lower than that which it was scored at, and that was the context of the comment.

  6. - Top - End - #396
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    I'm just going to leave this here since this has become a hot button topic.

  7. - Top - End - #397
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Again, disputes.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lost Crab
    This is... Where I come from we would say that you are going to get me.

    "Fluff I allowed 1.75 paragrpahs for an average length - a paragraph is roughly 8-9 sentences score stands."

    That is not the definition of paragraph, nor it is "average" in any sense of the term. Also if you had such a specific ruling I (and the other contestants) should have been informed in advance.

    "scout and as a melee fighter, breath weapons - yes semi versitle thus only a -.5 - the build does not cast, heal, sneak attack ect....
    score stands"

    Two things, first of all with more spell per day than anyone would see in a long time I feel insulted at the idea that the build does not cast. It does indead heal taint (casting spells), if no hit points, and in the shadowlands healing taint is more important. And seriously? Having a class ability called sneak attack gives you more versatility? It does not apply most of the time... You should have defined versatility better on the first place, if it includes having sneak attack...

    "rules interpreted, the allowance of the Maho Bujin would in fact be a rules interpretation as it is a Shadowlands PRC and most have some form of taint immunity or supression - this one seems to have it in exess and would have seen extra penalties score stands"

    This is where you are wrong.

    First of all, not most Shadowlands PRCs, both the two PRCs presented in chapter 12 of the Oriental Adventure campaign setting have taint suppression as a class feature.

    Second of all, the classes are explicitly allowed when the taint system is in use. The use of templates (such as akutsukai) turns you in an NPC but not levels in the class.

    Third of all, the taint immunity was clearly updated (as I mention) on page 66 of the Heroes of Horror (which again mentions the classes as valid).

    Taint Suppression: Characters with the maho-bujin and mahotsukai prestige classes no longer manifest physical symptoms of their corruption. Their depravity manifests in the normal range of mental symptoms, but they can replace any physical symptom of corruption with the internal corruption symptom. If such a character enters a tainted area, his corruption immediately manifests externally again, and he regains the physical symptoms he exchanged for internal corruption, if any. These physical symptoms disappear again 1d4 days after he leaves a tainted area. Otherwise, it is impossible to tell from external appearance that the maho-bujin or maho-tsukai carries corruption.

    Fourth and not for that least important, the Heroes of Horror is clear: If you wish, you can easily use monsters, maho (“blood magic”) spells, and other rules (such as PRCs) from Oriental Adventures with this taint system.

    Summing up, using the Maho-Tsukai is not wishful interpretation on my part.

    "UotSI - feel of the SI while subjective to each judge - I felt the use of the PRC gave me the wrong impression of the SI
    While I scored NO builds for Taint gain or Loss and the effects that go with it - this would have seen more penalties if I had.
    score stands"

    That is why I am asking what is your feeling, because you didn't explain it before the contest at least explain it now. I cannot get into your head and take the information by force.

    Why? How the taint is gained or lost is clearly explained in the build.

    ---

    The following questions remain unanswered:
    "One of the problems I expected was having penalties in elegance for too much power, but as is, the crab can kill any CR appropriate encounter in a full attack. It's relevance in others is kept to a minimum, being able to deal with its corruption on its own and being more than capable of finding and fighting the enemy by himself. Finally the note on use of items... I believe that assuming a portion of wealth by level is paramount, and even if items of +CON are expected they are not necessary. I don't want to build characters with integrated vow of poverty nor Christmas trees."

    I contend the penalty on power: "how well it does" (unless it means that I'm being penalized for doing too well), "any help", "items / equipment"

    "Also... the build does not have multiclass penalties nor dips, and it finishes 2 of the 3 classes it takes (with the 3rd almost finished), could you also expand on the penalties for multiclass?"

    I contend the penalty on elegance: "basic build" and "multiclass"

    "Finally UoSI is also quite subjective, and without comments it gets hard for me to understand your judging. Since I got the maximum penalty for not capturing the feel of the SI could you please elaborate in that? I felt that a samurai that roams hell on earth while still keeping its oaths and fighting against the servants of demons adjusted to the feel of the SI. Similarly the biggest weakness of the SI in my opinion, is the fact that it is really vulnerable to CON damage, in taking CON damage its treshold for corruption changes (that is covered) it also has really high fort saves to ensure that corruption is in check and finally has ways of removing corruption integrated. It uses its sworn enemy feature by having really good ranks in most of the skills that receive a bonus. Its fury helps with the problem of CON damage (by giving temporary CON) and its great attack bonus help to ensure that all of its abilities that depend on hitting take effect."

    I also contend the penalty on UotSI: "max/min SI" and "fail feel of SI"
    relytdan, it should also be noted that the competitor in question specifically asked me about the legality of maho-tsukai and I specifically allowed it, as HoH agreed with me about it's legality in the "sidebar" on page 66.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eillyassa Mital

    Penalty: Excess Fluff (-.5)
    This seems a little in excess, only 5 paragraphs of backstory to solidify why Eillyassa chose the path she did seems like a bare bones explanation of her life.

    Penalty: Needing help from others (-.5)
    She uses other party members for flanking, but at max lv she is very capable of using her Air Mephit Familiar as a flanking buddy, making her very self sufficient without a party.

    Penalty: Reliance on Equipment (-.25)
    She needs a mundane dagger to sneak attack, I doubt that is really grounds for a penalty? She doesn't need any equipment outside of that to function.

    Penalty: How well it does at what it does (-.5)
    She is built around one thing, getting her sneak attacks off, and getting a lot of them. She gets 7 attacks off per round all doing sneak attack damage because she gains flanking with her familiar, along with spells to put out sneak attack damage on things like golems. And even more, sacred strike will pump her sneak attacks up to d8s against evil opponents.

    Penalty: Rules Interpretations (-.5)
    There are no violations of any rules of which i am aware. This is more for clarification, then I will proceed from there disputing the deduction.

    Penalty: Basic Build (-.25)
    I'm not quite sure what this penalty is either, so it is again looking for Clarification, and will then be disputed on grounds of me knowing what is was for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol

    Smeagol was judged with a -2.5 on power.
    Reason for huge penatly: alot of items are relied on in the build
    However, the build has little to do with gear, as evidenced by buying random stuff. Assuming Smeagol finds a mundane club, his damage output is still very significant.

    At level 5 - 1d6 (weapon) +9 Str, +2 Favored Enemy, +10 Battle Leader Charge, Pounce (1d6 (weapon) +9 Str, +2 Favored Enemy). Average of 34 damage. Not to include the DC average of 27 or be shaken.

    At level 13 - 1d6 +12 Str, +2 Favored Enemy, +3 sworn foe, +18 shock trooper, +3 tainted strike, +10 Battle Leader Charge, 1d6 sudden strike, Pounce (3d6 +36 Str, +6 Favored Enemy, +9 sworn foe, +56 shock trooper, +9 tainted strike, 3d6 sudden strike). Average of 174. Not to mention that the fear DC is averaging 36 or drop everything and cower.

    At level 20 - 1d6 +12 str +2 favored enemy +8 sworn foe + 5 Tainted strike +10 Battle leader charge, +54 shock trooper +188 Headlong Rush, 3d6 Sudden Strike. Pounce (4d6 str +48 +8 favored enemy +32 sworn foe + 20 Tainted strike +216 shock trooper +752 Headlong Rush, 12d6 Sudden Strike.). Averaging 1,452 damage. Not to mention that the fear DC is averaging 45 or drop everything and cower.

    Gear is clearly not an issue.

    Furthermore -1 was taken from Elegance for Multiclass. However, Barbarian and Paragon are favored classes that do not count towards multiclassing and Smeagol finished 2 prestige classes. There is no multiclass penalty to it.

    Another -1 was taken for failure to qualify for something, can that something be pointed out?

    Lastly another -1 was given for Use of the SI, however Smeagol's abilities with the SI were echoed throughout other classes. He had a similar sworn foe feature with the ranger class. He had a similar fury feature with his paragon and barbarian levels. He even echoed the fear features in paragon, barbarian, and executioner levels. Lastly the "Avenger" part was echoed in his choice with the other prestige class.

    If you can address those issues I'd appreciate it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magralyx
    Thanks for clarifying a few of those points. However, you didn't mention anything about the following:

    On Power, you made the following statements (my comments appear beneath each - I have clarified them further):

    "versitile"

    Could you expand a little further on this? Magralyx has a bevy of spell-like abilities (including a limited at-will polymorph ability) and an array of solid skills. What isn't "versitile" (sic) about her that caused this deduction? Specifically, what is it she would need to be more "versitile"?

    "how well it does"

    Could you expand on why you feel Magralyx is not excellent at what she does? (scouting, infiltrating, skirmishing)

    Also, I respectfully disagree with your claim that Magralyx does not qualify for the secret ingredient. I mentioned it before, but the relevant rules can be found in the Monster Manual (pg. 305), under the Alignment heading. Note how it is stated that Unique or Rare individuals can have a different alignment.

    This indicates that a LG succubus can exist by the RAW. Also, Wizard's of the Coast published a Succubus Paladin (a class with even more strict alignment requirements than the SI). This indicates that the Subtypes don't disqualify a creature for a class with an alignment based requirement. That indicates RAI is in favor of this as well.

    Both of those together show that she does, according to the rules, qualify for the Secret Ingredient. Could you point me to the relevant rules text that indicates otherwise? DM fiat doesn't really fly, because the DM is free to shoot any character concept down, no matter what it does. I understand that you don't like the build, and that you wouldn't allow it at your table, but how does that disqualify Magralyx from taking the SI?

    If you feel that the approach would have trouble at various tables, isn't that what the elegance category is for? After all, it certainly doesn't appear to be breaking the rules, and it qualifies for the SI (you even seem to agree, but stated that you wouldn't allow it at your table). Your comment about using the alignments in the MM is odd. Does that mean you don't allow elf paladins without an alignment change in play? (their alignment is listed as usually Chaotic Good)

    Quote Originally Posted by relytdan
    Magralyx Original score Stands ( unless you want a lower score...)
    Well, I want everyone to get an honest and fair scoring according to the rules (and your criteria). If you feel that you did not do so, then you should adjust the score in whatever direction necessary. If you don't provide justification, or I feel you have made an error, I'll put in a dispute. That's how this works!

  8. - Top - End - #398
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Sméagol
    Score stands

    Martial Study - White Raven - Battle Leader's Charge
    BATTLE LEADER’S CHARGE
    White Raven (Strike)
    Level: Crusader 2, warblade 2
    Prerequisite: One White Raven maneuver

    Reason for dedution - in the first 4 levels of the build there is not a single indication of meeting the Prerequisite: One White Raven maneuver
    if you would like to point out where you get the said manuever at / from pre-level 5, I will re-examine this score.

    you list a WBL table and go on to cite damage with various items

    if the build does not rely on them why list the table and why list the potential damages that can be had with said items.

    this said your claim that the build does not need the items is a hard one to ignore

    while the build has favored classes - there were in fact dip classes as well as Basic and saw penalties for those reasons

    there was what i felt was a useless skill - wagoneer that makes the build not feel like a corrupt avenger

    **************

    Eillyassa
    New Adjusted score 15.25

    The Beginings Prequel - 3 paragraphs
    The Growth - 1+ paragraphs
    The Corruption - 1+ paragraph
    Build Notes - 1+ paragraphs

    and yes I consider all of this the "FLUFF".

    Penalty: Needing help from others (-.5)
    She uses other party members for flanking, but at max lv she is very capable of using her Air Mephit Familiar as a flanking buddy, making her very self sufficient without a party.

    - what can i say - you said it your self - you need help from the familiar

    items/equipment
    re-examined , seems the -.25 is in error

    Penalty: Rules Interpretations (-.5) - I felt that it would be a rules interpretation from a DM to gain a 20HD familiar -
    (see Familiars, page 52 of the Player's Handbook - not listed as a choice). and even at 18th level this is questionable enough to warrent the deduction in my opinion.

    basic
    I will just spell it out for this and everyone else -

    if your build consists of ANY PHB race or class it was given penalty for being basic.
    - if you disagree so be it, but there will be no score adjustments in this area, for this reason.

  9. - Top - End - #399
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Quote Originally Posted by relytdan View Post
    Penalty: Rules Interpretations (-.5) - I felt that it would be a rules interpretation from a DM to gain a 20HD familiar -
    (see Familiars, page 52 of the Player's Handbook - not listed as a choice). and even at 18th level this is questionable enough to warrent the deduction in my opinion.
    The 20HD familiar isn't a rules interpretation. The familiar rules state:

    Quote Originally Posted by PHB, pg 52
    Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to the number of Hit Dice, use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total, whichever is higher.
    Hit Points: The familiar has one-half the master's total hit points (not including temporary hit points), rounded down, regardless of its actual Hit Dice.
    At ECL 20, Eillyassa's familiar has 20 HD for all intents and purposes, but has half of her hit points. Granted, she still can't snag a Mirror Mephit without taking Planar Familiar, so I didn't know if that was the cause for the deduction or the 20 HD claim. Just wanted to clarify the latter.

    Hear ye, hear ye! I conjure forth...scores! And a day earlier than expected to boot. I'll work on a table of judges' scores, but it might take me a little while.

    Smeagol: 13.5 (3.375 average)
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    Originality: 2.5
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    • This reminds me of the True Story of the 3 Little Pigs. It was a fun alternate take on a well-known character (0.5).
    • The barbarian dip was repeated, and ranger dips were common this round. However, the half-orc theme and Avenging Executioner for double the avenging won you back some points (0).
    • Nothing mechanically unique was at play here (-0.5).
    • We have standard ubercharging and intimidation tricks going on here (-0.5).
    Power: 4
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    • Ranger and barbarian are kept to dips, Avenging Executioner is completed, and half-orc paragon is taken to the full. The Secret Ingredient makes sense to add power to the build (0.5).
    • The build functions at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on nova powers (0.5).
    • While there's a lot of gear mentioned, the build thrives without an undue emphasis on items, templates, or other add-ons for power (0.5).
    • Offensively you're a beast, but you'll be taking an awful lot of hits with no real defensive pizzazz. When it comes time to do anything besides hit or scare people, you'll be left twiddling your thumbs (-0.5).
    Elegance: 3.5
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    • The build qualifies for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • The build does not qualify for Improved Bull Rush at level 8, since Power Attack is not acquired until level 9. Also, Battle Leader's Charge requires one White Raven maneuver before you can take it via Martial Study (-0.5).
    • The build avoids reliance on questionable rules interpretations, cross-setting material, or material specifically disallowed from this competition (0.5).
    • Multi-class penalties are avoided, but we have two dips (0).
    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 3.5
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    • The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient, but doesn't make any special use of entry requirements (0).
    • The build completed the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • Class features of the Secret Ingredient aren't given any particular treatment, though the class features of Avenging Executioner receive mention (-0.5).
    • Smeagol feels like a real corrupt avenger, twisted by revenge against those tricksy hobbitses (0.5).

    Sir Driscoll Conia: 15 (3.75 average)
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    Originality: 2
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    • The backstory teased at the reasons for Driscoll's fall, but I would have liked more of a glance at why he hates his sworn foe and how that led him to fall (0).
    • Paladin was repeated as well as being one of the sample entries (and why not, as you get more goodies). However, your racial choice as well as the bone knight dip won you back some points (0).
    • Nothing mechanically unique was at play here (-0.5).
    • Dreadful Wrath/Imperious Command and Fearsome Armor are standard fear-op fare (-0.5).
    Power: 3.5
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    • Paladin 5 is the best breakpoint there is, and I'm also a fan of Swordsage 4 (especially when the last levels come online later to snag more powerful maneuvers). However, I really love Bone Knight and wish that you had snagged even one more level in it to pick up Bone March and your skeletal steed (0).
    • The build functions at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on nova powers (0.5).
    • One of your tricks becomes a heavier tax on the action economy without Fearsome Armor, so I don't feel right awarding full points here (0).
    • Offensively, Divine Might and other damage boosters partner with a nice BAB. Defensively, Paladin's Serenity and Swordsage abilities bring your WIS to your defense. However, outside a battlefield or an interrogation, the build feels a little lacking in utility (0).
    Elegance: 5
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    • The build qualifies for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • The build qualifies for all feats taken (0.5).
    • While you've got an alignment shift, it's the one this class is practically built for. Questionable rulings/banned material are otherwise avoided (0.5).
    • The build avoids multi-class penalties and there is only one dip (0.5).
    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 4.5
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    • The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient, but doesn't make any special use of entry requirements (0).
    • The build completed the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • Using Serenity to bypass the restriction on stacking Divine Grace w/ Grim Resolve was a stroke of genius. It paired nicely w/ Sworn Foe+Baffling Defense, as well (0.5).
    • The paladin fallen from grace is basically the cloth from which the Corrupt Avenger was cut (0.5).

    The Lost Crab: 13.5 (3.375 average)
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    Originality: 4
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    • The second-hand account from a dishonored Crab was an interesting take (0.5).
    • Human Paragon is always useful and proved unique this round, along with a class I had never heard of before (0.5).
    • I'm glad to see someone made use of Tainted feats. Also, Quick Reconnoiter is a fun little diversion (0.5).
    • Imperious Command/Never Outnumbered/Fearsome Armor. Again (-0.5).
    Power: 2.5
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    • You finish human paragon and stay in maho bujin only long enough to get the awesome unbounded corruption. Nice break points (0.5).
    • Your tainted feats give you oomph, and they're only available a few times/day. Aside from that, you're a power attacker w/ a bonus to hit but you don't pack much of a wallop (-0.5).
    • Fearsome armor makes an appearance, and without it you've got less ability to wrangle the action economy. But the main concern is the laundry list of CON-boosters and other items that accompany it. I'm curious to know how strong you are without them (-0.5).
    • In terms of offense, you've got a lot of attacks with some bonus damagein addition to standard intimidation goodies. In terms of utility, you scout as well as you scare. But defensively, I would have liked to have seen more than a bucket of HP (0).
    Elegance: 3
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    • The build qualifies for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • Without 15 CHA by level 9, the build does not qualify for Imperious Command. Also, please keep in mind that you do not gain bonus feats for reaching mild taint. Also, you can gain a maximum of two bonus feats: one for reaching Moderate Taint and another for Severe Taint. Corruption/depravity are two ways the taint can manifest, rather than two separate systems. As such, you do not gain separate bonus feats for accruing corruption and depravity (-0.5).
    • While I understand that roaming the Shadowlands supercharges your taint, some DMs may look sideways at you for suggesting that you build up 10 taint for Maho Bujin before level 2. Keep in mind that it's up to the DM whether you face corruption or depravity, not you. Also, some have a problem with the rules for combining magic items. Finally, I'm not sure how Crimson Road works in 3.5. It's definitely a holdover from a time when monks worked a little differently (-0.5).
    • The build avoids multi-class penalties and dipping (0.5).
    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 4
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    • The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient and makes use of entry requirements by entering Maho Bujin and taking Tainted feats (0.5).
    • The build completed the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • Taint suppression from the SI is overlapped by maho-bujin's taint suppression, and while other features are mentioned they are not synergized (-0.5).
    • The corrupted avenger roaming the Shadowlands, drawing power from the taint of the land itself was definitely a cool vibe (0.5).

    Designation MDCCCLXXXVI: 15 15.5 (3.75 3.875 average)
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    Originality: 4
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    • I felt like I was reading an explanation of class levels more than a glimpse into the character (-0.5).
    • I really liked the warforged selection. While you use the common ranger dip, it's only one level. Crusader was used by another entry, albeit with a very different distribution. The rest of your classes were as unique as your racial choice, so I'm awarding full points here (0.5).
    • Azure Enmity's one I don't see too much, and I liked it alongside Incarnum Spellshaping and Tainted Fury (0.5).
    • The build avoids known cheese and overused optimization suggestions (0.5).
    Power: 4
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    • More crusading and incarnum would have allowed you to tank even better than entry into the SI (-0.5).
    • The build functions at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on nova powers (0.5).
    • The build thrives without an undue emphasis on items, templates, or other add-ons for power (0.5).
    • Offensively, you keep the fourth iterative and have some decent bonus damage in addition to ways to boost spell DCs. In terms of utility, you've got some decent scouting power. Defensively, you've got the ability to take a lot of hits in addition to some delayed damage and 1 save reroll/day from Crusader (0.5).
    Elegance: 2.5 3
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    • I'm not sure if Crusaders can be any alignment beside True Neutral or can't have a neutral component to their alignment (0). [COLOR="rgb(46, 139, 87)"]EDIT: "Neutral" is the given name for True Neutral alignment in the PHB. As such, the build qualifies for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient (0.5).[/COLOR]
    • The build qualifies for all feats taken (0.5).
    • Unfortunately, your attempt to snag incarnum spells doesn't work. You can add wizard/wu jen/etc. spells "as long as those spells appear on your class spell list" (HoH, pg 89). If they're not on the Corrupt Avenger spell list, they aren't yours (-0.5).
    • The build incurs multiclass penalties and contains two dips (-0.5).
    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 4.5
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    • The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient and makes use of entry requirements by taking Tainted Fury (0.5).
    • The build explained why 9 levels of the Secret Ingredient was better than completion in a compelling way' (0.5).
    • Each class feature received specific treatment (heck, even armored casting!). While some treatments were better than others, I appreciate the focus (0.5).
    • A possibly malfunctioning warforged hellbent on revenge? I'll go with it. However, I wasn't sure what was corrupting him--hatred? The Mournland? Something else? Also, am I hallucinating or is the name inspired by a shotgun from Modern Warfare? (0).

    Magralyx: 14.5 (3.625 average)
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    Originality: 4.5
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    • An interesting premise, the reformed demonic temptress (0.5).
    • Popping in some monster levels usually scores originality points, but we even managed to stay unique and synergized with that one base class level as well. Nicely done (0.5).
    • It's nice to see someone make use of CHA with abilities that haven't come up time and time again. Combat Panache, Battle Dancer, and Avenging Strike were fun to see put to use (0.5).
    • Never Outnumbered and Arcane Strike sneak in here, but you otherwise avoid the usual suspects (0).
    Power: 3.5
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    • Your main tricks come from being a succubus, not more levels in Battle Dancer (0.5).
    • Once you get up there in levels, you've got abilities at will. However, as you're learning how to be a succubus, you're a bit more limited (0).
    • As I said above, your main tricks come from being a succubus (-0.5).
    • You bring your CHA to bear in almost every situation--offensively, defensively, and in terms of skills. In addition to that, you've got other fun abilities like flight and damage reduction (0.5).
    Elegance: 3.5
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    • The build qualifies for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • Avenging Strike requires a good alignment, and as a succubus you're always chaotic evil. Granted, you've built an alignment shift into your story, but I'm still not sold that every DM would allow it (-0.5).
    • The build relies on an alignment shift on a creature that is "always" X alignment. While this seems like double-dipping with the above, the deduction is for feat qualification. The fact that you're not awarded a bonus here is for questionable reactions to alignment shifts by some DMs, even if they're justified by a tale like yours (0).
    • The build avoids multi-class penalties and there is only one dip (0.5).
    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 3
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    • The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient (assuming the alignment shift is allowed so an Evil subtype creature can become non-evil, but doesn't make any special use of entry requirements (0).
    • Only 7 levels of the Secret Ingredient were taken, without explanation (-0.5).
    • I really enjoyed your treatment of Tainted Fury, but would have liked to see similar attention paid to other class features (0).
    • As hard as I came down on your alignment shift, I really liked the concept of a demon who's tortured to the side of good…it's almost a corrupt avenger in retrograde (0.5).

    Braxton: 13.5 14 (3.375 3.5 average)
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    Originality: 2
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    • An interesting angle on an avenging hero turned sellsword (0.5).
    • Between the barbarian dip and the warblade chassis, the sprinkling of Rage Mage wasn't enough to win back originality points. No deduction for humans because we're awesome, but it's not winning you any points either (-0.5).
    • Nothing mechanically unique was at play here (-0.5).
    • Ubercharger regularity. Dreadful Wrath, Never Outnumbered, Imperious Command, Fearsome Armor. Again (-0.5).
    Power: 3 3.5
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    • Barbarian is dipped, so this build is ultimately a warblade. You snag your bonus feat and get your initiator level up to 11, but more warblade is rarely a bad thing (0).
    • You had me going until I realized that you've got 1 Spell Rage/day (0). EDIT: The build functions at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on nova powers (0.5).
    • The build thrives without an undue emphasis on items, templates, or other add-ons for power. A few items are mentioned, but not required (0.5).
    • Offensively, you're a beast. But most uberchargers gladly give up defense and you're no exception. Lastly, if you're not scaring or hitting someone you're not doing much (-0.5).
    Elegance: 5
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    • The build qualifies for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • The build qualifies for all feats taken (0.5).
    • The build avoids reliance on questionable rules interpretations, cross-setting material, or material specifically disallowed from this competition (0.5).
    • The build avoids multi-class penalties and there is only one dip (0.5).
    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 3.5
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    • The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient, but doesn't make any special use of entry requirements (0).
    • The build completed the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • While you focused on Frightful/Unnerving Fury, the other class features receive minimal mention (0).
    • I got the Avenger part, but I didn't really see what corrupted you…why Corrupt Avenger instead of, say, Avenging Executioner? (0).

    Eillyassa Miltal: 15 (3.75 average)
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    Originality: 3.5
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    • Kudos for actually providing us with your introduction to the taint of evil (0.5).
    • Our first of four spellthieves enters the mix. Luckily, you selected an appropriately kleptomaniacal race to separate yourself from the pack a little (0).
    • Good Karma is a favorite feat of mine when focusing on luck, and I never before thought about pairing it with a spellthief's ability to absorb spells. Simple, elegant, and original (0.5).
    • Obtain Familiar/Improved Familiar/Air Mephit familiar is a frequent suggestion (-0.5).
    Power: 4
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    • Master Spellthief allows you to snag 9th level spells, and since you've got more than 9 levels in spellthief, you can actually hold onto one. Corrupt Avenger gives you more spellcasting than Spellthief would have (0.5).
    • The build functions at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on nova powers (0.5).
    • The build thrives without an undue emphasis on items, templates, or other add-ons for power (0.5).
    • Offensively, you've got the right number of attacks and some bonus damage from sneak attack. Defensively, though, your oomph is based on what you can steal. In terms of utility, you can lie like the best of them but that's about it unless you go about stealing some utility spells (-0.5).
    Elegance: 4
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    • The build qualifies for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • The build qualifies for all feats taken (0.5).
    • Using your taint to snag an exalted feat like Sacred Strike seems like a contradiction in terms. Also, a quick reading of the Share Spells ability shows that it's not up to individual DMs--you share spells that you cast. Not any spells cast or SLAs used by your familiar. You have steal SLA to make up for that, but I still feel the need to comment. Lastly, how are you getting your familiar advanced to Large size? (-0.5).
    • The build avoids multi-class penalties and dipping (0.5).
    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 3.5
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    • The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient, but doesn't make any special use of entry requirements (0).
    • The build completed the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • Armored casting is the only class feature that receives any particular treatment (-0.5).
    • The corruption stirring inside you was a cool driving force for the character (0.5).

    Giorgio: 13.5 (3.375 average)
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    Originality: 4.5
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    • Giorgio is no one indeed--I would have liked to learn more about him. Instead, I felt like you presented a decent story with a question mark as the main character (0).
    • The second of four spellthieves, but this one's a little more forgivable as it's only one level. The rest of the races are an oddball combination of rogue and battle sorcerer, enough to pique my curiosity about just what it is you're up to (0.5).
    • I hadn't really seen Razing Strike put to use before this (0.5).
    • The build avoids known cheese and overused optimization suggestions (0.5).
    Power: 3.5
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    • With only one spellthief level, even though you can steal high level spells thanks to Master Spellthief you can't hold them. Also, it's hard to give up a class that could access 9th-level spells to instead max out at 5ths (-0.5).
    • The build functions at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on nova powers (0.5).
    • The build thrives without an undue emphasis on items, templates, or other add-ons for power (0.5).
    • Offensively, you've got plenty of attacks and some decent bonus damage. Defensively, you're helped only by what you can steal and put to immediate use. In terms of utility, you've got a handful of skills that help you out (0).
    Elegance: 3
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    • The build qualifies for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • With a BAB of +0 at first level, you don't qualify for Weapon Finesse. Without any metamagic feats at level three, you don't qualify for Eschew Materials. Since you can't cast 3rd-level spells at 12th level, you don't qualify for Arcane Strike (-0.5).
    • I think you intended Razing Strike to work against undead, but since you're sacrificing arcane spells to power it, the bonus damage from the feat only applies against constructs. Also, you don’t list a Wisdom score, which made figuring out your point buy impossible. These are little things, but I think they keep you from full points (0).
    • There is only one dip, but multi-class penalties are incurred (0).
    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 2.5
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    • The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient and makes use of entry requirements by snagging Lunatic Insight and Corrupt Arcana (0.5).
    • Only 4 levels of the Secret Ingredient were taken. That's less than half the available levels, with no explanation as to why doing so benefits the build (-0.5).
    • The class features of the Secret Ingredient didn't receive any particular treatment (-0.5).
    • You mention a mentor that spoke of taint and corruption, but I would have liked to learn more of what he said. Did he love it? Did he admonish Giorgio to use it as a last resort? Did he just say it existed and then move on? (0).

    Brooswayn Scourgesoul: 15 (3.75 average)
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    Originality: 3
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    • Honestly, you had a great story going that was half Memento and half Christopher Nolan-era Batman…but all the *wink wink nudge nudge* Batman references subtracted from the story of a guilty man longing to find someone else to blame. Blame the speculators, but speculators ruined the Roaring '20s, too (0).
    • Warblade chassis and Hellreaver were repeaters this round, but hellbred actually stood alone and won you back some points (0).
    • Stormguard Warrior is too good not to see more love. Also, Frightful Presence just felt so right for the batman (0.5).
    • Imperious Command, Never Outnumbered, and Fearsome Armor. Again (-0.5).
    Power: 3.5
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    • Dipping back into Warblade at the end of the build was a smart way to snag 13th initiator level, but Warblade and Hellreaver are so chock full of goodies that I can't say this is stronger than a straight Warblade/Hellreaver (0).
    • The build functions at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on nova powers (0.5).
    • The build thrives without an undue emphasis on items, templates, or other add-ons for power (0.5).
    • Offensively, you've got fear effects and some bonus damage going on. Defensively, though, there's not much out of the ordinary. And while scaring people is your schtick, you don't have much additional utility without your belt (-0.5).
    Elegance: 5
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    • The build qualifies for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • The build qualifies for all feats taken (0.5).
    • The build avoids reliance on questionable rules interpretations, cross-setting material, or material specifically disallowed from this competition. 19:19While you mention an alignment shift, it's not required (0.5).
    • The build avoids multi-class penalties and dipping (0.5).
    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 3.5
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    • The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient, but doesn't make any special use of entry requirements (0).
    • The build completed the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • None of the class features received a dedicated treatment (-0.5).
    • Your quest for revenge has definitely corrupted you (0.5).

    Angelique A'lanale: 14 (3.5 average)
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    Originality: 3.5
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    • Angelique was an interesting demonhater tainted by her essentia (0.5).
    • Azurin, Hellreaver, and 3 levels of Duskblade to snag arcane channeling were all repeaters this round. You've got 4 levels in Soulborn and, while I respect the amount of insanity it takes to have ANY levels in Soulborn, it's not enough for me to give back points (-0.5).
    • It's not often that you see love for healing feats, and you took a decent handful (0.5).
    • Ability that deals stat damage+Strongheart Vest is an old reliable combo by now, and one that isn't really needed as Heroic Sacrifice + Tainted Fury would have been a cool new way to offset the CON damage. It's the only offender here, though (0).
    Power: 4.5
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    • Let's be honest, most people are only in Duskblade for the first three levels. Soulborn is taken just long enough to snag a soulmeld, and you're in Hellreaver for the best goodies. These are respectable breakpoints (0.5).
    • The build functions at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on nova powers (0.5).
    • The build thrives without an undue emphasis on items, templates, or other add-ons for power (0.5).
    • Offensively, you maintain full BAB and some bonus damage via Power Attack and Arcane Channeling. Defensively, you've got mad heals. In terms of utility, you've got a handful of ranks in some helpful skills, but I would have liked to see more (0).
    Elegance: 3
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    • The build qualifies for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • Assuming "Cobalt Attack" is actually "Cobalt Power," you qualify for that. However, with 3 ranks in Knowledge Religion at 9th level, you don't qualify for Arcane Disciple. Also, your table says you're snagging the Healing domain but your write-up mentions the Life domain. Which is correct? Without 1 rank in Heal, you don't qualify for Healing Soul (-0.5).
    • Sorry if this feels like a double-dip on Strongheart Vest, but above I deducted for Originality since it's a suggestion that flies all over charop boards. Here, I'm deducting because some will say it doesn't work. As you reduce the ability damage taken rather than healing it, you never actually "voluntarily take 2 points of CON damage." Therefore, you're not making a heroic sacrifice (-0.5).
    • The build avoids multi-class penalties and dipping (0.5).
    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 3
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    • The build fails to qualify for the Secret Ingredient. As presented, you gain your feat for moderate corruption only after entering the prestige class (-0.5).
    • Only seven levels were taken, but you're right in pointing out how Call to Judgment is a stronger ability. Even still, I would have liked to see more Corrupt Avenger squeezed in there (0).
    • Grim Resolve with Mettle was a good pairing, as was using the casting to snag some healing spells & feats. However, the other class features aren't even mentioned (0).
    • "Essentia as taint" was a cool spin on harnessing the power of souls (0.5).

    Shane MacLaughlan: 14.5 (3.625 average)
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    Originality: 3
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    • I was digging the fearless…janitor? (0.5).
    • Our third spellthief (and second arcane channeler) of the round brings some goodies to the table via Unseen Seer and Mage of the Arcane Order, so it all washes out (0).
    • Axiomatic Bloodline was a cool way to have a bloodline without taking a bloodline, but everything else was pretty standard. Also, I just feel like saying bloodline again, so…bloodline (0).
    • Improved Familiar/Obtain Familiar/Planar Familiar show up again, as they're frequent suggestions for any arcane class. Craven also pokes his cowardly head in the mix (-0.5).
    Power: 3.5
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    • Duskblade is taken to the appropriate breakpoint, and spellthief is dipped only to steal spells. However, without more levels in spellthief you can't hold the best spells you steal, and more Mage of the Arcane Order would have added to this build's power tremendously (-0.5).
    • The build functions at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on nova powers (0.5).
    • The build thrives without an undue emphasis on items, templates, or other add-ons for power (0.5).
    • Offensively, you've got four iteratives and bonus damage for days. In terms of utility, given a little time you can tap the Spellpool for an answer to most situations and you've got a bevy of useful skills. Defense is the only spot where you're really lagging (0).
    Elegance: 4.5
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    • The build qualifies for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • The build qualifies for all feats taken (0.5).
    • The build avoids reliance on questionable rules interpretations, cross-setting material, or material specifically disallowed from this competition (0.5).
    • While multiclass penalties were avoided, we have two dips (0).
    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 3.5
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    • The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient, but doesn't make any special use of entry requirements (0).
    • The build completed the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • None of the class' features received any particular treatment (-0.5).
    • I really liked the idea of a janitor turned Toxic Avenger because he had taint spilled on him in a lab (0.5).

    Bug: 10.5 (2.625 average)
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    Originality: 1.5
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    • While the background vignette had me laughing, it didn't really give me a glimpse into the life of Bug/T/Twinkling Guide (-0.5).
    • Hellreaver shows up again, but you're the only barbaric bugman I see around these parts. Let's call it even (0).
    • Nothing mechanically unique was at play here (-0.5).
    • Ubercharging and imperious command/never outnumbered. Again (-0.5).
    Power: 2.5
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    • Barbarian 5 makes sense as a break point, and you're straight into your PrCs (0.5).
    • You've only got rage 2/day, yet in your write-up you mention that you'll usually be raging during battles (-0.5).
    • You gain some power from your LA, for sure, but I wouldn't say you really rely on it. We'll call it a wash (0).
    • Offensively, you're a beast. Defensively, you're an ubercharger so you're leaving yourself open a lot. You have some defensive prowess from Hellreaver, but not enough to make up for it. In terms of utility, if you're not smacking something or scaring it, you're not doing much (-0.5).
    Elegance: 4
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    • The build qualifies for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • You lack the DEX required for Two-Weapon Fighting as well as the CHA required for Imperious Command (-0.5). EDIT: Diopsids get to ignore the DEX requirements of Two-Weapon feats. Thanks, Herr Chairman!
    • The build avoids reliance on questionable rules interpretations, cross-setting material, or material specifically disallowed from this competition (0.5).
    • The build avoids multi-class penalties and dipping (0.5).
    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 2.5
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    • The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient, but doesn't make any special use of entry requirements (0).
    • The build completed the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • None of the SI's class features receive any particular treatment (-0.5).
    • So, you really hate devils. Any particular reason why? (-0.5).

    The Damned of the Crab: 14 (3.5 average)
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    Originality: 3.5
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    • A supersoldier forged from the very enemy he was trying to fight…I dig it (0.5).
    • Azurin and Paladin are both repeaters this round (as well as paladin being the basis of a sample character), but your particularly shadowy twist was enough to steal back some points (0).
    • The Oni Chitin was an interesting find--while not included in the build as it's not from an allowed source, I appreciate taking the detour to point it out enough to give something, but the rest of the build is pretty standard fare (0).
    • Planar Touchstone and Martial Stance: Assassin's Stance are go-tos for snagging a domain or extra damage, respectively (0).
    Power: 4
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    • Paladin 5 is a fine breakpoint, but I would have liked to see more Totemist for additional binds and essentia without the need to burn through feats (0).
    • The build functions at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on nova powers (0.5).
    • If your DM doesn't allow Blink Shirt qualification (as it's not a SLA) for Shadowlord, you'll require a heavy-duty template that's often thought to be underrated in terms of LA (0).
    • Offensively, you've got a ton of attacks and some great bonus damage. Defensively, you've got plenty of ways to stay hard to hit. In terms of utility, your skill ranks aren't the greatest but you can boost that with some strategic soulmelds (0.5).
    Elegance: 3
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    • The build relies on DM ruling to qualify for Shadowlord, but I appreciate that you provided another method to qualify as well. (0).
    • The build qualifies for all feats taken (0.5).
    • While you've got an alignment shift, it's the one this class is practically built for. I get the idea of a ShadowLORD in the ShadowLANDS, but you're blending campaign settings here. I appreciate your notes about it, but it might still raise some DMly eyebrows (-0.5).
    • There is only one dip, but multiclass penalties are still incurred (0).
    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 3.5
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    • The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient, but doesn't make any special use of entry requirements (0).
    • Only 9 levels of the Secret Ingredient were taken, but a reasonable explanation was provided (0.5).
    • I liked the idea of boosting Sworn Foe skill bonuses via soulmelds, but you list more soulmelds than you have access to. Other than that, other class features were mentioned but didn't receive any specific treatment (-0.5).
    • Much like our other Crab, the Shadowlands themselves make sense as the forge of a corrupted soldier fighting a losing battle on both external and internal fronts (0.5).

    Rand Turimbar: 18 (4.5 average)
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    Originality: 4.5
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    • The elves and the drows, aka D&D's Hatfields & McCoys. Nice job mining the old rivalry for a glimpse at a soldier consumed by his mission (0.5).
    • One other entry had crusader levels, but a far different distribution from your own. A unique race and Jade Phoenix Mage added to the originality here (0.5).
    • Glad to see some Tainted feats, and Vital Recovery is something that doesn't usually see the light of day (0.5).
    • Two feats were used just to snag the never-not-suggested Iron Heart Surge, but aside from that known cheese and overused suggestions were avoided (0).
    Power: 4.5
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    • Holding off on Jade Phoenix Mage until the end made sure that you snagged a bunch of higher-level maneuvers, and you maintained in Crusader until a respectable breakpoint (0.5).
    • The build functions at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on nova powers (0.5).
    • The build thrives without an undue emphasis on items, templates, or other add-ons for power (0.5).
    • Offensively, you've got full BAB and some bonus damage via maneuvers and Jade Phoenix Mage. Defensively, you've got crusader goodies like delayed damage and 1 save reroll/day. In terms of utility, though, I wouldn't call Lunatic Insight and a smattering of ranks enough to make you a sage (0).
    Elegance: 5
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    • The build qualifies for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • The build qualifies for all feats taken (0.5).
    • The build avoids reliance on questionable rules interpretations, cross-setting material, or material specifically disallowed from this competition (0.5).
    • The build avoids multi-class penalties and dipping (0.5).
    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 4
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    • The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient and makes use of entry requirements by picking up Surge of Malevolence & Debilitating Spell (0.5).
    • The build completed the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • Grim Resolve makes Indomitable Soul useless. Other class features receive a passing mention at best (-0.5).
    • Sure, blame your taint on those damned drow. Even so, I felt Rand's corruption growing (0.5).

    Pantaleon Dalence: 11.5 (2.875 average)
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    Originality: 3
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    • We get the barest glimpse of a backstory in your level 10 breakdown (-0.5).
    • That ranger dip's the only unoriginal bone in your body. Every other choice in terms of race and class was truly one-of-a-kind (0.5).
    • It was fun to see Three Mountains & Rapid Blitz put to use (0.5).
    • Naenhoon Illumian+Turning+Persist Spell is the slightly less cheesy version of Divine Metamagic (and it works on arcane spells, too). However, that's like comparing sharp vs mild cheddar; they're both still cheese (-0.5).
    Power: 4
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    • Fighter 4 and Ranger 1 are both decent breakpoints, and Soldier of Light was dipped just for turning. From there on out, you're fast and furious (0.5).
    • Persisted Haste, sweet! However, you've only got it available 2/day. Granted, that's enough to keep one nasty dispel from wrecking you, but it's precariously close to the edge (0).
    • The build thrives without an undue emphasis on items, templates, or other add-ons for power (0.5).
    • Offensively, haste bumps you up along with your full BAB. You don't have much bonus damage, but you're all about debuffing with frightful fury and Three Mountains. Defensively, Swiftblade and haste are covering your butt. But in terms of utility, you've got the ability to identify spells and some survival. I would have liked to see more to receive full points (0).
    Elegance: 1.5
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    • By missing the DEX requirement for Dodge/Mobility, you fail to qualify for Swiftblade. Even with the appropriate DEX, you lack the requisite ranks in Concentration and Spellcraft (-0.5).
    • You lack the DEX required to qualify for Expeditious Dodge, Mobility, or Rapid Blitz. Without any ranks in Knowledge (dungeoneering), you don't qualify for Ocular Spell (-0.5).
    • Another who interprets that you receive bonus feats separately for increasing corrruption and depravity, rather than receiving the feats for increasing taint overall (-0.5).
    • Multi-class penalties are avoided, but there are two dips (0).
    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 3
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    • The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient and makes use of entry requirements by using the moderate taint feat to snag Mobility (though see Elegance) (0.5).
    • Only 5 levels of the Secret Ingredient were taken. However, you were only here for haste. You pick up some class features along the way, but your main thrust is being a swiftblade. Oddly, it works (0.5).
    • None of the class features were even mentioned. Tell us why being a Corrupt Avenger is necessary (-0.5).
    • I didn't really get a feel of the conceptual end of the build, so it's hard to say why he makes a good corrupt avenger (-0.5).

    Leilani: 14 (3.5 average)
    Spoiler
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    Originality: 2.5
    Spoiler
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    • I didn't really get a glimpse into the build's personality (-0.5).
    • Here we have our fourth spellthief, but your dips brought back some points. Heck, I had no idea what a Maho-Tsukai was before this (0).
    • It was fun to see Touch of Taint put to use w/ Animal Devotion, if only for 1 minute/day. Godsblood Spelltheft is a little-known bit of fun. Also, Astrally Tracking your sworn foe makes you one BAMF. Lastly, as much grief as you're going to get for them, those two templates are quite interesting (0.5).
    • Knowledge Devotion and Obtain Familiar/Planar Familiar for a Mirror Mephit are known go-tos (-0.5).
    Power: 3.5
    Spoiler
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    • You use a spellthief chassis to eventually snag 9th level spells via maho conversion. Even before that, Master Spellthief allows you to steal plenty, and you take enough levels to ensure you can hold onto an 8th-level spell (0.5).
    • The build functions at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on nova powers (0.5).
    • The akutsukai and akutenshi templates are ridiculous (and not fit for PC usage, as addressed in Elegance below) (-0.5).
    • 9th level spells are a big deal. However, you'll only enjoy them for one level of your adventuring career. Before that point, you've got great utility, decent offense, and minimal defensive prowess. It's close to full points, but I wish that maho-tsukai had come online earlier (0).
    Elegance: 3.5
    Spoiler
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    • The build qualifies for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • The build qualifies for all feats taken (0.5).
    • I'm not sure how Crimson Road interacts with 3.5, but that's the least of our concerns. While 3.5 removed the penalties to CON and WIS that taint used to carry, the maho-tsukai keeps a line about getting 1/2 taint as penalty to WIS. With an 8 WIS, you're slaughtering yourself. Also, the templates you suggest mention a CR change of +1...but that's not the same as +1 LA. Templates without a listed LA usually aren't fit for player use, and good luck finding a DM willing to assign a playable LA to either akutsukai or akutenshi. They've got the feeling of the Big Bad your DM pulls out when everyone stops paying attention and starts throwing Cheetos to scare the party straight (-0.5).
    • Multi-class penalties are avoided, but there are two dips (0).
    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 4.5
    Spoiler
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    • The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient and makes use of entry requirements by entering maho-tsukai (0.5).
    • The build completed the Secret Ingredient (0.5).
    • Astral Tracking your sworn foe was cool, and Grim Resolve+Spellgrace was a small but fun synergy. Other class features weren't even mentioned, though (0).
    • An assassin tainted by the Shadowlands who eventually becomes one of the monsters that dwells within was a sick concept, I'll give you that (0.5).
    Last edited by OMG PONIES; 2013-11-04 at 09:22 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Ponies, the Kim Karsdashian of GITP.
    This is what happens when they let me DM:
    Beyond the Horizon IC / OOC
    A Time to Die: Alpha IC / Bravo IC / OOC

  10. - Top - End - #400
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    yougi's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Wow Ponies, way to give us a 4-way tie for 2nd place!
    Spoiler: ICitP Participations
    Show

    L - Corrupt Avenger - Brooswayn Scourgesoul (4th)
    LI - Black Flame Zealot - Anubis (SILVER)


    Blackguard Avatar from Cealocanth

  11. - Top - End - #401
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    More disputes.

    But before I post them, relytdan, I must say that I officially disapprove (indeed, I would have said something earlier, had you posted it in your criteria) of penalizing entries for using Core races/classes. I will have to ask that you remove the penalty for using Core Materials, and in your honor, I'll amend something to that effect in the Standard Iron Chef OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Driscoll
    relytdan: I'm sort of taking a stab at some of these, because the penalties are unclear in many cases. I'd really like to hear the reasoning behind every penalty you gave, not just to Driscoll, but to everyone, but I'll stick to a few specific concerns on my own entry.

    1. Driscoll received a -0.5 elegance penalty under "multiclass." This might be entirely for the Bone Knight dip, or bouncing out of Swordsage and back in, but since that's also the section for penalizing multiclass penalties, that could also be the reason. Paladin is a favored class for Lesser Aasimar, so if that's what the penalty was for, it was a mistake.

    2. You gave a -0.25 for a questionable rule interpretation. There are a few things that this might have been, but I don't think any of them warrant a penalty.

    a. If it was based on using Serenity to stack Divine Grace with Grim Resolve, I don't think there can be any ambiguity. Grim Resolve absolutely stacks with things that add Wis to saves, because it doesn't say anything to the contrary. It only has a problem with Divine Grace when Divine Grace is adding Cha to saves.

    b. If it was based on using Bone Knight to "double dip" my Fallen Paladin-ness, I think RAW is pretty clear. Fallen Paladins gain certain powers back from Bone Knight, and Fallen Paladin Corrupt Avengers get some bonuses from the class. There's nothing to suggest that there's any conflict there.

    c. If it was based on using the "double move" from Bounding Assault as two move actions, one of which activates fearsome armor, that might be a bit questionable, but page 136 of the Player's Handbook defines a double move as taking two move actions.

    d. Based on some of your other dispute responses, it might be for a change in alignment for becoming a Fallen Paladin. In fact, no change in alignment is mechanically necessary. Paladins with Moderate Taint automatically fall per the taint rules in Heroes of Horror. Any change in alignment is at the DM's discretion. If you, as effective DM for the purposes of this contest, feel it's less questionable to stay at LG alignment, then you can assume that. If you feel that the taint - which everyone has to use this round - turning him LN is less questionable, you can go with that instead.

    3. Could you elaborate on how I failed to min-max the SI's abilities? I have a higher Sworn Foe bonus than any other entry, and can use the Sense Motive bonus to shut down pretty much any attack with Baffling Defense. I can double the bonus damage from Tainted Strikes (which, similarly, I have more uses of than anyone else) with Ruby Nightmare Blade. I made Divine Grace stack with Grim Resolve, even though the person who wrote the class really didn't want it to. The build is effective at stacking fear effects on top of the SI's ability to do so.

    4. How does Driscoll fail to capture the feel of the SI? I could sort of understand it based on the fluff being short and not super involved, but since you're penalizing fluff that you consider too long, it feels like a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario. On that note, Driscoll received a fluff penalty, but from your dispute responses, you seem to be penalizing based on whether the fluff is within 1.75 "paragraphs" where a paragraph is 8-9 sentences. I wrote, by my count, 13 sentences of fluff. 13<16=8*1.75, so I'm not sure how that's grounds for a penalty, though frankly I'm a bit embarrassed at having written so little fluff for this and I'm not sure I even want to argue particularly hard on that point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brooswayn
    Just to have it on record and not expecting a change in my score as you’ve denied it to other chefs before, but I still have to dispute the maximum length for the fluff, which is restrictively low and was never specifically stated before. You say you were very permissive, yet such restrictions have never been heard of in the 49 prior instances of this competition. Also, using a one-size-fits-all maximum: I believe my origin story is as compressed as it could be, and does not feel long. I mean, I’m sure if I made a movie trilogy, each movie around 2 hours long, many would watch that!

    Now you state that the Knight from the Dark needs help from others: while he can perform better with a League of Justice surrounding him (or a young apprentice, if that seems to be required), that is true of everyone: even on his own, he can take his sweet time incapacitating his terrified, cowering enemies. I simply do not see where this penalty comes from.

    You also took out points for the build’s equipment requirements. Aside from a kickass cowl, no item is necessary to the build. I did outline three items which the build would obviously benefit from, but it was mostly as a set-up to a few jokes. In no way does the build RELY on these, even though they help (which is true of all D&D characters). I did not even calculate bonuses from these items in my level write-ups.

    You penalized the dish for Rules Interpretation. I fail to see what this refers too, unless it refers to the “Hellbred immune to taint’s alignment change”, which I describe as “arguable”, and nothing more. It’s also in there as an excuse for the alignment change, for which I was already penalized.

    I’ve also been penalized for not using all of the SI’s abilities. The only one I did not describe in my write-up is Tainted Strike, which caps at a +5 to one melee attack, 3/day, at level 20, and does not affect the character’s main enemy. I feel like it deserves very little attention.

    I would also like more details about how Brooswayn doesn’t capture the feel of the Corrupt Avenger. Fluff-wise, his thirst for vengeance drove him to extreme ends, eating him up and corrupting him; Crunch-wise, the character has optimized the one strongest asset of the class: the fear aura. It seems to me to perfectly capture the SI.

  12. - Top - End - #402
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Quote Originally Posted by yougi View Post
    Wow Ponies, way to give us a 4-way tie for 2nd place!
    Must. . . await. . . table. . . . Must. . . be. . . strong. *twitch*
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV. Play as me!


    Spoiler
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  13. - Top - End - #403
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    Female

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    [QUOTE=Kuulvheysoon;16329194]I will have to ask that you remove the penalty for using Core MaterialsQUOTE]

    well don't that beat all - hey guess what chefs by order of the chairman your scores are being amended

    NOTE: with respect to the chairman and the contest I disagree.

    All chefs that saw deductions in basic for any reason will have this added into their score

    For the record to all - you should be damn happy with this precedent!


    judges have about 4 more days- I am disinclined to give any score changes at this point.

  14. - Top - End - #404
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    The Great White North

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Just a note, Ponies -
    Limb Symmetry: A diopsid's four arms allow it to carry and use multiple items with relative ease. A diopsid can use its third and fourth limbs to steady a weapon held in its primary arms, shift its weight, and maneuver it to attack or defend. A diopsid ignores the Dexterity prerequisite, if any, for any feat that has the words "two-weapon" in its name, such as Two- Weapon Fighting. The diopsid must fulfill the rest of the feat's requirements as normal.
    Dispute, for both judges!
    Eillyassa
    Eillyassa to Relytdan

    With full regards to my familiar, there are 2 feats invested into gaining the familiar one of which, (Improved Familiar) is built around making the familiar more combat oriented, see Complete Warrior or Complete Scoundrel for the feat, though Mephits are only listed in Complete Scoundrel. This is entirely RAW, no rules interpretations to be had.

    And Familiars are considered to be one with their masters (because they are most commonly a class feature) which would not be counted as needing help because the Mephit is always with me. So I fail to see any room for penalty here, unless you're going to penalize a Druid for utilizing his animal companion.


    ***************************************
    to Ponies

    Taint maybe evil, but she swears herself to forever walk in the light, swearing to strike down evil doers and such etc etc.

    I actually don't play arcane casters much, so that's where the share spell misunderstanding comes from. And it advancing to large size was a remnant from when I misunderstood the familiar rules to be similar to druid animal companion rules where it advances in HD as you lv, I can't really dispute the elegance penalty because the first ding is subjective and the second is from me not editing the table right, so this is more of an explanation to your question from my judging.

    But on to disputes,

    Is Obtain Familiar, Improved Familiar Air Mephit really that common? I can't say I've seen a build using Improved Familiar recently

    She does make use of Sworn foe, though it is more manifest in the fluff portion than actually spelled out in the build highlights

  15. - Top - End - #405
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    Female

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Final Amended Scores

    Smeagol
    Spoiler
    Show
    Smeagol

    {table=head]
    Name
    |
    Score
    |
    Deduction 1
    |
    Deduction 2
    |
    Deduction 3
    |
    Deduction 4

    Score 11.25|Originality|race/template|classes|interesting|Fluff

    -|-1.5|0|-.5|-.5|-.5

    -|Power|versitile|how well it does|any help|items/equipment

    -|-3.5|-.5|-.5|-.5|-2

    -|Elegance|basic build|multiclass|rules interpretation|fail to qualify non-si

    -|-2.75|0|-1|-.75|-1

    -|UsotSI|abilities not used|max min si|fail feel of si|fail to qualify si

    -|-1|0|-.5|-.5|0
    [/table]


    *****

    Driscoll
    Spoiler
    Show
    Driscoll

    {table=head]
    Name
    |
    Score
    |
    Deduction 1
    |
    Deduction 2
    |
    Deduction 3
    |
    Deduction 4

    score 15.25|Originality|race/template|classes|interesting|Fluff

    -|-1.25|0|-.5|-.5|-.25

    -|Power|versitile|how well it does|any help|items/equipment

    -|-1.75|-.5|-.5|-.5|-.25

    -|Elegance|basic build|multiclass|rules interpretation|fail to qualify non-si

    -|-.75|0|-.5|-.25|0

    -|UsotSI|abilities not used|max min si|fail feel of si|fail to qualify si

    -|-1|0|-.5|-.5|0
    [/table]


    *****

    Lost Crab
    Spoiler
    Show
    Lost Crab

    {table=head]
    Name
    |
    Score
    |
    Deduction 1
    |
    Deduction 2
    |
    Deduction 3
    |
    Deduction 4

    Score 14.5|Originality|race/template|classes|interesting|Fluff

    -|-1.5|-.5|0|-.5|-.5

    -|Power|versitile|how well it does|any help|items/equipment

    -|-2|-.5|-.5|-.5|-.5

    -|Elegance|basic build|multiclass|rules interpretation|fail to qualify non-si

    -|-.75|0|-.25|-.5|0

    -|UsotSI|abilities not used|max min si|fail feel of si|fail to qualify si

    -|-1.25|0|-.5|-.75|0
    [/table]


    *****

    Designation
    Spoiler
    Show
    Designation

    {table=head]
    Name
    |
    Score
    |
    Deduction 1
    |
    Deduction 2
    |
    Deduction 3
    |
    Deduction 4

    Score 15.25|Originality|race/template|classes|interesting|Fluff

    -|-1|0|-.5|-.25|-.5

    -|Power|versitile|how well it does|any help|items/equipment

    -|-2|-.25|-.5|-.25|-1

    -|Elegance|basic build|multiclass|rules interpretation|fail to qualify non-si

    -|-.75|0|-.5|-.25|0

    -|UsotSI|abilities not used|max min si|fail feel of si|fail to qualify si

    -|-1|-.25|-.5|-.25|0
    [/table]


    *****

    Magralyx
    Spoiler
    Show
    Magralyx

    {table=head]
    Name
    |
    Score
    |
    Deduction 1
    |
    Deduction 2
    |
    Deduction 3
    |
    Deduction 4

    score 12|Originality|race/template|classes|interesting|Fluff

    -|-1.25|0|0|-.5|-.75

    -|Power|versitile|how well it does|any help|items/equipment

    -|-2|-.5|-.5|-.5|-.5

    -|Elegance|basic build|multiclass|rules interpretation|fail to qualify non-si

    -|-1|0|-.25|-.75|0

    -|UsotSI|abilities not used|max min si|fail feel of si|fail to qualify si

    -|-4|-.75|-.75|-.75|-1.75
    [/table]


    *****

    Braxton
    Spoiler
    Show
    Braxton

    {table=head]
    Name
    |
    Score
    |
    Deduction 1
    |
    Deduction 2
    |
    Deduction 3
    |
    Deduction 4

    Score 16.25|Originality|race/template|classes|interesting|Fluff

    -|-1.75|-.5|-.5|-.25|-.5

    -|Power|versitile|how well it does|any help|items/equipment

    -|-1|-.25|-.25|-.25|-.25

    -|Elegance|basic build|multiclass|rules interpretation|fail to qualify non-si

    -|-.75|0|-5|-.25|0

    -|UsotSI|abilities not used|max min si|fail feel of si|fail to qualify si

    -|-.25|0|-.25|0|0
    [/table]

    *****

    Eillyassa
    Spoiler
    Show
    Eillyassa

    {table=head]
    Name
    |
    Score
    |
    Deduction 1
    |
    Deduction 2
    |
    Deduction 3
    |
    Deduction 4

    Score 15.5|Originality|race/template|classes|interesting|Fluff

    -|-1.5|0|-.5|-.5|-.5

    -|Power|versitile|how well it does|any help|items/equipment

    -|-1.5|-.5|-.5|-.5|0

    -|Elegance|basic build|multiclass|rules interpretation|fail to qualify non-si

    -|-.5|0|0|-.5|0

    -|UsotSI|abilities not used|max min si|fail feel of si|fail to qualify si

    -|-1|-.0|-.5|-.5|0
    [/table]


    *****

    Giorgio
    Spoiler
    Show
    Giorgio

    {table=head]
    Name
    |
    Score
    |
    Deduction 1
    |
    Deduction 2
    |
    Deduction 3
    |
    Deduction 4

    score 13.25|Originality|race/template|classes|interesting|Fluff

    -|-2|-.5|-.5|-.5|-.5

    -|Power|versitile|how well it does|any help|items/equipment

    -|-2|-.25|-.5|-.5|-.25

    -|Elegance|basic build|multiclass|rules interpretation|fail to qualify non-si

    -|-1|0|-.5|-.5|0

    -|UsotSI|abilities not used|max min si|fail feel of si|fail to qualify si

    -|-1.75|-.75|-.5|-.5|0
    [/table]



    *****

    Brooswayn
    Spoiler
    Show
    Brooswayn

    {table=head]
    Name
    |
    Score
    |
    Deduction 1
    |
    Deduction 2
    |
    Deduction 3
    |
    Deduction 4

    Score 15.5|Originality|race/template|classes|interesting|Fluff

    -|-1.5|0|-5|-.5|-.5

    -|Power|versitile|how well it does|any help|items/equipment

    -|-1.25|-.25|-.25|-5|-.25

    -|Elegance|basic build|multiclass|rules interpretation|fail to qualify non-si

    -|-.5|0|-.25|-.25|0

    -|UsotSI|abilities not used|max min si|fail feel of si|fail to qualify si

    -|-1.25|-.5|-.25|-.5|0
    [/table]


    *****

    Angelique
    Spoiler
    Show
    Angelique

    {table=head]
    Name
    |
    Score
    |
    Deduction 1
    |
    Deduction 2
    |
    Deduction 3
    |
    Deduction 4

    Score 15|Originality|race/template|classes|interesting|Fluff

    -|-1.5|0|-.5|-.5|-.5

    -|Power|versitile|how well it does|any help|items/equipment

    -|-1.5|-.25|-.5|-.5|-.25

    -|Elegance|basic build|multiclass|rules interpretation|fail to qualify non-si

    -|-.75|0|-.25|-.25|-.25

    -|UsotSI|abilities not used|max min si|fail feel of si|fail to qualify si

    -|-1.25|-.5|-.25|-.5|0
    [/table]


    *****

    Shane
    Spoiler
    Show
    Shane

    {table=head]
    Name
    |
    Score
    |
    Deduction 1
    |
    Deduction 2
    |
    Deduction 3
    |
    Deduction 4

    Score 13.25|Originality|race/template|classes|interesting|Fluff

    -|-2|-.5|-.5|-.5|-.5

    -|Power|versitile|how well it does|any help|items/equipment

    -|-2|-.25|-.5|-.5|-.75

    -|Elegance|basic build|multiclass|rules interpretation|fail to qualify non-si

    -|-1.75|0|-.75|-.5|0

    -|UsotSI|abilities not used|max min si|fail feel of si|fail to qualify si

    -|-1.5|-.5|-.5|-.5|0
    [/table]


    *****

    Bug
    Spoiler
    Show
    Bug

    {table=head]
    Name
    |
    Score
    |
    Deduction 1
    |
    Deduction 2
    |
    Deduction 3
    |
    Deduction 4

    Score 16.5|Originality|race/template|classes|interesting|Fluff

    -|-1.25|0|-.5|-.5|-.25

    -|Power|versitile|how well it does|any help|items/equipment

    -|-1.5|-.25|-.5|-.5|-.25

    -|Elegance|basic build|multiclass|rules interpretation|fail to qualify non-si

    -|-.25|0|-.25|0|0

    -|UsotSI|abilities not used|max min si|fail feel of si|fail to qualify si

    -|-.5|0|-.25|-.25|0
    [/table]


    *****

    Damned of the Crab
    Spoiler
    Show
    Damned of the Crab

    {table=head]
    Name
    |
    Score
    |
    Deduction 1
    |
    Deduction 2
    |
    Deduction 3
    |
    Deduction 4
    |
    Honorable Mention

    Score 14|Originality|race/template|classes|interesting|Fluff

    -|-2|-.5|-.5|-.5|-.5

    -|Power|versitile|how well it does|any help|items/equipment

    -|-1.5|-.25|-.5|-.5|-.25

    -|Elegance|basic build|multiclass|rules interpretation|fail to qualify non-si

    -|-1.5|0|-.5|-.5|-.5

    -|UsotSI|abilities not used|max min si|fail feel of si|fail to qualify si

    -|-1|-.25|-.5|-.25|0
    [/table]


    *****

    Rand
    Spoiler
    Show
    Rand

    {table=head]
    Name
    |
    Score
    |
    Deduction 1
    |
    Deduction 2
    |
    Deduction 3
    |
    Deduction 4

    Score 16.25|Originality|race/template|classes|interesting|Fluff

    -|-1|0|0|-.5|-.5

    -|Power|versitile|how well it does|any help|items/equipment

    -|-1.5|-.5|-.5|-.5|0

    -|Elegance|basic build|multiclass|rules interpretation|fail to qualify non-si

    -|-.25|0|0|-.25|0

    -|UsotSI|abilities not used|max min si|fail feel of si|fail to qualify si

    -|-1|0|-.5|-.5|0
    [/table]


    *****

    Pantaleon
    Spoiler
    Show
    Pantaleon

    {table=head]
    Name
    |
    Score
    |
    Deduction 1
    |
    Deduction 2
    |
    Deduction 3
    |
    Deduction 4

    Score 14.25|Originality|race/template|classes|interesting|Fluff

    -|-1.5|0|-.5|-.5|-.5

    -|Power|versitile|how well it does|any help|items/equipment

    -|-1.25|-.25|-.5|-.5|0

    -|Elegance|basic build|multiclass|rules interpretation|fail to qualify non-si

    -|-1.5|0|-.5|-.25|0

    -|UsotSI|abilities not used|max min si|fail feel of si|fail to qualify si

    -|-2|-.75|-.5|-.75|0
    [/table]


    *****

    Leilani
    Spoiler
    Show
    Leilani

    {table=head]
    Name
    |
    Score
    |
    Deduction 1
    |
    Deduction 2
    |
    Deduction 3
    |
    Deduction 4

    score 15|Originality|race/template|classes|interesting|Fluff

    -|-1.5|0|-.5|-.5|-.5

    -|Power|versitile|how well it does|any help|items/equipment

    -|-1.5|-.5|-.5|-.5|0

    -|Elegance|basic build|multiclass|rules interpretation|fail to qualify non-si

    -|-1||-.5|-.5|0

    -|UsotSI|abilities not used|max min si|fail feel of si|fail to qualify si

    -|-1|0|-.5|-.5|0
    [/table]


    Final Amended Scores

  16. - Top - End - #406
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    dysprosium's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Must. . . await. . . table. . . . Must. . . be. . . strong. *twitch*
    Here it is! (before disputes)

    {table=head]Name|1st Judge|2nd Judge|Total|Place
    Rand Turimbar|16.25|18|34.25|1st|-|-|-|-|-|-
    Eillyassa Miltal|15.5|15|30.5|2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-
    Brooswayn Scourgesoul|15.5|15|30.5|2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-
    Sir Driscoll Conia|15.25|15|30.25|4th|-|-|-|-|-|-
    Designation MDCCCLXXXVI|15.25|15|30.25|4th|-|-|-|-|-|-
    Braxton|16.25|13.5|29.75|6th|-|-|-|-|-|-
    Angelique A'lanale|15|14|29|7th|-|-|-|-|-|-
    Leilani|15|14|29|7th|-|-|-|-|-|-
    The Lost Crab|14.5|13.5|28|9th|-|-|-|-|-|-
    The Damned of the Crab|14|14|28|9th|-|-|-|-|-|-
    Shane McLaughlan|13.25|14.25|27.75|11th|-|-|-|-|-|-
    Bug|16.5|10.5|27|12th|-|-|-|-|-|-
    Girogio|13.25|13.5|26.75|13th|-|-|-|-|-|-
    Magralyx|12|14.5|26.5|14th|-|-|-|-|-|-
    Pantaleon Dalence|14.25|11.5|25.75|15th|-|-|-|-|-|-
    Smeagol|11.25|13.5|24.75|16th|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

    Lots of ties -- including the two Crabs.

  17. - Top - End - #407
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    A few questions, a few answers, a new table...you know, typical Halloween stuff.

    First, to our Chairman: in the disputes above attributed to the Lost Crab, there was much talk about Maho-tsukai. However, The Lost Crab was our Maho-Bujin and Leilani was our Maho-Tsukai, IIRC. Am I getting confused?

    Second, to relytdan: a few calculation questions:
    • Designation MDCCCLXXXVI: Total Originality deductions currently show -1, but tally is -1.25. Total score seems to be based on -1.25 and thus remains unchanged.
    • Magralyx: Score shows 12, but tally is 11.75. Which is correct? Table currently shows tally-based score.
    • Braxton: Elegance deduction "multiclass" shows -5, but score is based on -.5. Just a minor note.
    • Giorgio: Total Power deductions currently show -2, but tally is -1.5. This seems to be affecting the Total Score, which currently shows 13.25 though tally is 13.75. Which is correct? Table currently shows tally-based score.
    • Brooswayn Scourgesoul: Power deduction "any help" currently shows -5, but score is based off -.5. Just a minor note.
    • Shane MacLaughlan: Total Elegance deductions show -1.75, but tally is -1.25. Total score seems to be based off -1.25 and thus remains unchanged.
    • Pantaleon Dalence: Total Elegance deductions show -1.5, but tally is -0.75. Total score shows 14.25, but tally is 14.5. Which is correct? Table currently shows tally-based score.


    Final[?] Results After Two Judges (After Some Disputes, but Probably Before Others)
    {table=head]Entry|Medal|Total|Average
    Rand Turimbar|Gold|34.25|4.28125
    Eillyassa Miltal|Silver|30.5|3.8125
    Brooswayn Scourgesoul|Silver|30.5|3.8125
    Sir Driscoll Conia|Fourth|30.25|3.78125
    Designation MDCCCLXXXVI|Fifth|30|3.75
    Braxton|Sixth|29.75|3.71875
    Angelique A'lanale|Seventh|29|3.625
    Leilani|Seventh|29|3.625
    The Lost Crab|Ninth|28|3.5
    The Damned of the Crab|Ninth|28|3.5
    Shane MacLaughlan|Eleventh|27.75|3.46875
    Giorgio|Eleventh|27.25|3.40625
    Bug|Thirteenth|27|3.375
    Magralyx|Fourteenth|26.25|3.28125
    Pantaleon Dalence|Fifteenth|26|3.25
    Smeagol|Sixteenth|24.75|3.09375[/table]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon View Post
    Just a note, Ponies -
    Limb Symmetry: A diopsid's four arms allow it to carry and use multiple items with relative ease. A diopsid can use its third and fourth limbs to steady a weapon held in its primary arms, shift its weight, and maneuver it to attack or defend. A diopsid ignores the Dexterity prerequisite, if any, for any feat that has the words "two-weapon" in its name, such as Two- Weapon Fighting. The diopsid must fulfill the rest of the feat's requirements as normal.
    Good on you, Herr Chairman. I knew I'd miss something glaring. While this means that Bug/T/Twinkling Guide qualifies for TWF, he still lacks the CHA required to select Imperious Command. Scoring stands but comment has been added to original judging.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon View Post
    Dispute, for both judges!
    Quote Originally Posted by Eillyassa
    to Ponies

    Taint maybe evil, but she swears herself to forever walk in the light, swearing to strike down evil doers and such etc etc.

    I actually don't play arcane casters much, so that's where the share spell misunderstanding comes from. And it advancing to large size was a remnant from when I misunderstood the familiar rules to be similar to druid animal companion rules where it advances in HD as you lv, I can't really dispute the elegance penalty because the first ding is subjective and the second is from me not editing the table right, so this is more of an explanation to your question from my judging.
    Thanks for answering my questions! I get the concept--heck, I dig it--but I was more concerned about the stringent requirements for exalted characters and I wasn't sure if you could stay exalted while obtaining taint. Rereading Heroes of Horror, it does talk about paladins remaining virtuous despite being tainted so I guess it could work unless the DM enforces an alignment change upon hitting moderate taint. However, that wasn't the only comment causing that deduction. Based on the confusion about Share Spells and trying to snag a Mirror Mephit without Planar Familiar, scoring stands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eillyassa
    But on to disputes,

    Is Obtain Familiar, Improved Familiar Air Mephit really that common? I can't say I've seen a build using Improved Familiar recently
    Air mephits slightly less so than mirror mephits (as people love them that simulacrum SLA), but they're a frequent suggestion. In this round of competition alone we have three folks pick up Obtain Familiar/Improved Familiar:
    • The Lost Crab (Winter Wolf)
    • Shane MacLaughlan (Mirror Mephit)
    • Eillyassa (Air Mephit)


    I didn't comment on The Lost Crab's usage because I had other "overused suggestion" fish to fry with Imperious Command/Never Outnumbered/Fearsome armor, but you and Shane both saw deductions for their use. IIRC, the combo crops up here and there in various handbooks or discussions of classes with minimal arcane casting ability (for example, Warlocks and Factotums). Scoring stands.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eillyassa
    She does make use of Sworn foe, though it is more manifest in the fluff portion than actually spelled out in the build highlights
    While most builds made fluff mention of their sworn foe/blood vendetta/enemy clan/Batman villains/etc, I was looking for mechanical synergy, and particularly unique mechanical synergy. For reference, see Driscoll's pairing of Baffling Defense w/ Sworn Foe's Sense Motive bonus, The Damned of the Crab's mention of using soulmelds to further boost the skills Sworn Foe bumped up, or Leilani's ability to autosucceed on Astral Tracking checks and then plane shift on her foe's tail thanks to the Survival bonus from Sworn Foe Scoring stands.
    Last edited by OMG PONIES; 2013-10-31 at 05:00 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Ponies, the Kim Karsdashian of GITP.
    This is what happens when they let me DM:
    Beyond the Horizon IC / OOC
    A Time to Die: Alpha IC / Bravo IC / OOC

  18. - Top - End - #408
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    The Great White North

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    More disputes heading your way, oh Master of Equines
    Quote Originally Posted by Magralyx
    Thanks for judging PONIES! No real disputes here, just some clarifications and questions:

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    Originality: 4.5
    • Never Outnumbered and Arcane Strike sneak in here, but you otherwise avoid the usual suspects (0).
    It's worth noting that Arcane Strike is here to provide a method for using the resources from the SI to harm undead. Avenging Strike for Evil Outsiders, Arcane Strike for Undead, and Tainted strike for everything else (because undead and evil outsiders are immune to it). And I know that Never Outnumbered is a common thing to take, but to leave it out of this SI would have been criminal.

    Also, I did include the Social Recovery skill trick, but I'm guessing that is covered under the CHA synergy comment?

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    Power: 3.5
    • As I said above, your main tricks come from being a succubus (-0.5).
    Could you clarify this point? I kind of figured that the main tricks came from the two classes chosen (and the feats), given that they provide the abilities that make use of the huge CHA bonus of the Succubus. The Sp abilities are nice, but what about them constitutes "main trick"?

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    Elegance: 3.5
    • The build relies on an alignment shift on a creature that is "always" X alignment. While this seems like double-dipping with the above, the deduction is for feat qualification. The fact that you're not awarded a bonus here is for questionable reactions to alignment shifts by some DMs, even if they're justified by a tale like yours (0).
    You are the second judge to mention this, and I'm still confused by it (although you at least put it in Elegance, where I figured I'd take a hit of some kind on this). Nothing states that the alignment shift can't happen before play starts (although I chose not to put that in the fluff). Also, it looks like I didn't spell it out, but the helm in the story was intended to be a Helm of Opposite Alignment.

    All that said, there is precedent for a Lawful Good Succubus (I didn't chose the race by accident), as per the WotC Succubus Paladin they posted on their website. Could you point out the rule that I seem to be missing which makes this a non-viable option here? relytdan seems to have refused to further clarify, so right now you're my only hope.

    Also, due to the way Alignment based subtypes work, Magralyx will be affected by every spell that targets based on alignment. So Holy Word and Hammer of Law (because of her subtypes), and Unholy Word and Chaos Hammer (because of her alignment), would all affect her equally. How's that for silly?

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 3
    • Only 7 levels of the Secret Ingredient were taken, without explanation (-0.5).
    I thought this was clear in the build writeup, but I'll clarify here (I missed a few clarifying points, it would seem). I could have gone straight into the SI as a succubus. Given that a Succubus is an ECL 12 character, that leaves only 8 levels. So there isn't room for any more. The level of Battle Dancer was a blatant power grab for the ridiculous AC synergy. And given that Corrupt Avenger 8 is actually a dead level, losing it doesn't hurt the build any.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lost Crab
    Ponies thanks for judging and actually taking the time to make comments it is much appreciated.

    I'm really sorry to say that I totally say that I forgot the CHA requirement of Imperious Command it seemed such an obvious choice...

    I'm really glad that you liked the backstory it was complicated to come up with, I had the character but I didn't know how to transmit the feeling I wanted, at the end I thought that a description from a stranger would be the best course.

    On power yes, I am a power attacker with bonuses to hit, and that might be boring, but I would like to remark that at level 20 those bonuses are +60 to all attacks and that it has 8 attacks (7 base + haste; which is in the spell list). Also I know that it is little to say in a defensive manner but I avoided shock trooper which is one of the typical power attacker feats (that burns on defense) and my HP pool is quite significant with 17d12 and really high CON.

    Corruption wise I thought I made it clear; Heroes of Horror Sidebar page 66: "Spending time in the Shadowlands increases a character’s corruption score, which can be resisted with successful Fortitude saving throws, as described in Oriental Adventures." The increase, per raw, is corruption. On the crimson road thingie... the maho-bujin has not been updated anywhere, and I can only say that it doesn't reference monk at any point.

    Finally on the taint suppression I didn't make a mention to it since due to how OA taint was updated (according again to the sidebar on page 66 of Heroes of Horror) they are pretty much the same class feature. It also doesn't seem much use either way, since being in the shadowlands the Lost Crab is continually in a tainted area; also internal corruption would reduce his CON score and the Lost Crab doesn't want that.

  19. - Top - End - #409
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2013

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    So let's break those ties, shall we?

    First of all a big "thank you!" to everyone who ever judged! Doing it for the first time and investing 30+ hours I can now fully appreciate what you guys did in the 20+ entry rounds.

    I had to adjust my criteria a little because my first write up of those simply didn't work out for me: I added a fixed starting score of 3,5 for elegance.

    If in my explanation there is a number in [] this is the starting value. Numbers in () should add/subtract accordingly. If i messed up somewhere please tell me.
    If my rather mediocre english confuses you at some point, please send a dispute. I'll try to rephrase my explanation then. If you feel offended by my words, please tell me, because i can assure you, it is not intended.

    Looking forward to your disputes!


    Smeagol: 9,75
    Spoiler
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    Originality: 2,25
    Well known stub(pounce shocktrooper – intimidation) with corrupt avenger sprinkled over it [2]. Story is amusing and reflects the nature of this contest: have fun (+0,25).

    Power: 2,5
    Little ramp up time: your build comes together with the first Avenging executioner level. You have one trick consisting of two parts (charge – intimidate) with casting sprinkled over it [3]. Since you made no effort in telling me what you are actually casting, I'll assume it would increase your power (-). DEX 6 for quite a while?! (-0,5).

    Elegance: 2,75
    Everything cited (+0,5). No Alignment listed (has to be CN) (-). Table a little confusing (-). Attributes+Gear table is handy(-). Don't qualifies for Spiritual Connection (needs 4 lvl ranger) (-0,5). Don't qualifies for Battle Leader Charge (Preq: one white raven maneuver)(-0,5). Barbarian and Ranger dip(-0,25). Retraining: While many DM don't allow it, it is simply for roleplaying here: No penalty (-). Please use spoiler tags (-).

    UotSI: 2,25
    You enter the SI fairly early and take it to completion [3]. Does this feel like a corrupt avenger? Kind of. But: It feels way more like an Avenging executioner(-0,25). No sworn foe is listed but I guess it's halfling(-). You get a lot of spells, but you seem not willing to use them(-0,25). Taint is not used in your build (-0,5). The class features add something to your build but not more than they would to every other charger/demoralizer (+0,25).

    Sir Driscoll Conia: 14,5
    Spoiler
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    Originality: 3
    Paladin - Bone Knight was expected. Swordsage not so much. Your build is known, but you used it in a surprising way [3]. (Lesser) Aasimar Paladin falling (-).

    Power: 3
    Maneuvers, Spells and a demoralizer basis. Can hold himself in melee. Fills his roll and has some additional tricks up the sleeve. You are a well rounded addition to any party at any level [3].

    Elegance: 4,5
    Easy to read, write up showcases what I needed to know. It didn't take me long to get answers to my questions(+0,5). Listing paladin spells wouldn't have been that much trouble(-). build flows (+0,5). The Bone Knight dip does slow down the entry of corrupt avenger but adds too much to say it doesn't fit (-).

    UotSI: 4
    You enter rather late but take the SI to completion [2,75]. Nice use of Grim Resolve via Serenity (+0,5). Casting used via Dreadful Wrath and Arcane Strike (+0,5). „Feels“ like CA (+0,25).


    The lost Crab: 15,75
    Spoiler
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    Originality: 4,5
    Maho-bujin is a nice find. I didn't expect it [4]. Human + Paragon is of course expected every round [-0,5]. I would have wished for a bit more of an interesting personalitiy in your backstory (-). Presentation in haiku, love it, love it, love it (+1).

    Power: 4
    Some serious taint abuse. As soon as you hit level 8 you are a beast in melee. Nice addition of scouting abilities. The spells of corrupt avenger add versatility [4]. Nice use of a familiar and the Vitality belt soulmeld (-).

    Elegance: 3
    Everything cited (+0,5), build flows (+0,5). You don't qualify for Imperious Command because your CHA is too low(-0,5). You don't qualify for Improved familiar as you gain your 7th casterlevel at step 8 of the level up process whereas choosing a feat is step 7 (-0,5). The Crimson Road class feature might cause trouble at tables as it is an somewhat old version of flurry of blows (-0,5).

    UotSI: 4,25
    You enter rather late but take it to completion and are tainted beyond imagination, therefor you feel very much like a CA [3].
    Excellent use of Sworn foe by using the skills it gives a bonus too(+0,5). Excellent use of taint (+0,5). Good Use of the Spells (i.e. Remove curse for taint control) (+0,25). Taint suppression is waisted, Grim resolve doesn't get much love either(-).


    MDCCCLXXXVI: 12,75
    Spoiler
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    Originality: 3,5
    Incarnate + soulcaster + arcane caster is a known power combo. Going for it with a Full BAB minor casting class is new to me though [3]. Warforged with MoI + taint is a nice touch (+0,5). The Ranger dip was fully expected(see elegance).

    Power: 3,75
    +16 BAB, Lvl. 4 spells, decent Meldshaperlevel + Essentia, some maneuvers [4]. At first glance you seem well rounded, but at certain levels multiclassing hurts you a lot and you need a lot of levels until you bloom, but every detour adds something too (-0,25).

    Elegance: 3,25
    Your writeup was detailled i didn't have to google fu, everything cited (+0,5). Ranger Dip + Multiclassing penalties early on (-0,5). Warforged and taint doesn't bother me since the drawbacks can be refluffed easily and adjusted to warforged (-). Your spell selection assumes that you are casting as a wizard which you are not. You use the same mechanic (spell book), but you use your own spell list. Therefor you cannot select incarnum spells of the wizard/sorcerer list (-0,25). Moreover I feel those incarnum spells are terrible choices compared to the spells your spelllist offers (-).

    UotSI: 2,25
    You enter very late and take only 9 levels of the SI [2,75]. When thinking of a (tainted) CA i don't think of a warforged but I am open to new stuff (-). You lack the skill points to really make use of Sworn Foe, your Charisma isn't really high enough for the other class features to kick in (-0,5). Your build stub usually uses a full arcane caster. The spellcasting progression of CA isn't bad, but your whole build would profit a lot more of more soulcaster levels than CA levels (-0,5). Armored Casting is used in a very nice way (+0,5).


    Magralyx: 15,25
    Spoiler
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    Originality: 4,5
    LG Succubus? You got my attention, almost blew my mind ;) [4,5]. I would have loved to see a less classic story: evil becoming good - killing evil parent (-).

    Power: 2,75
    You are actually quite a well rounded addition to a party as a buffer and face but of course it takes you a lot of (monster progression) levels to get there [2,75]. I would have liked to see you focus on your SLAs more via the feats as I don't see very much benefit in shape soulmeld and open least chakra when you could have gotten ability focus or a similar (-). Also some ranks in use magic device would have increased your power significantly (-).

    Elegance: 3,75
    LG Succubus, might bother some DMs. I can imagine many Dms simply waving this as it is a nice character concept overall. Still a small penalty though (-0,25). build flows (+0,5), easy to read (+0,5). Battle dancer dip (-0,25). The explanation of your taint is a little shaky, since alignment change isn't really physical in my mind (-0,25).

    UotSI: 4,25
    You take 7 levels out of possible 8. The eight is a dead level. So the base score reflects choosing the perfect amount of levels for your build [4]. You circumvent some of the usual problems of a succubus via d12 hit dice and grim resolve (+0,25). Your ridiculous CHA helps a lot to make the class features more viable (+0,5). Armored casting is waisted because of the unarmored requirement of the battle dancer AC bonus (-). Taint is a set score and not used, sworn foe skill bonus is no real help to you (-0,5). The „summon your own sworn“ foe trick is neat. The benefit is only minor though as you are no real frontliner(-).


    Braxton: 11,5
    Spoiler
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    Originality: 1,75
    Warblade, Barbarian were expected. Rage Mage not. Shocktrooper, imperious command.... [2] You are human. You are the unnamed avenger. That's right out of every playbook ever written (-0,25)

    Power: 2,5
    You have one trick consisting of two parts (charge – intimidate) with casting and maneuvers sprinkled over it. You are equally powerful throughout your career [3]. I guess you did go for barbarian 2 for improved uncanny dodge. I would have preferred another warblade level (-). I don't know why you need 3 levels of rage mage. 1 would be sufficient to get what you want (spell rage 1/day). Jade phoenix mage springs to mind as a better choice for the remaining levels (-0,5). Why do you ramp up con over str? (-)

    Elegance: 4,5
    You qualify for everything(+0,5), build flows 8 (+0,5). You don't mention where you get your taint(-). I feel you could get more out of your build with slightly different choices at some point. I feel like rage mage is glued to this build to somehow use rage and spellcasting at the same time. Do you really want to cast while raging when you got maneuvers?(-)

    UotSI: 3,25
    You enter early and take it straight to completion [3]. Taint is not used in your build (-0,5). The class features add something to your build but not more than they would to every other charger/demoralizer (+0,25).


    Eillyassa Miltal: 11,75
    Spoiler
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    Originality: 3,5
    Halfling and Spellthief weren't expected. I like the Good Karma - absorb magic trick as spellthiefs and selfsacrifice isn't my first train of thoughts (+0,5). Storywise right there with all the others: revenge for my dead parents and my corrupted self (-).

    Power: 3
    Decent enough backstab damage, solid casting, defensive abilities are lacking, utility is very dependent on spell stolen or wands [2]. Possibility to steal and cast one 9th level spell (+0,5). UMD+ familiar is always nice (+0,5).

    Elegance: 4,25
    10/10 build flows perfect (+0,5). You qualify for everything (0,5), but i think you misunderstood taint suppression: you can swap your symptoms only for internal corruption (-2 Con) (-0,25).

    UotSI: 1,5
    SI entered late and completed [2,5] Armored casting is used. Frightful/Unnerving fury are mentioned. The rest you just take along the road (-0,5). Taint is explained storywise, but not used at all (-0,5).


    Giorgio: 8,75
    Spoiler
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    Originality: 4
    Battle Sorcerer, Rogue and Spellthief were not expected. You made me eyebrows go up. [4] Not sure why the mist corrupted you, but did like that part of the story. Lone survivor – revenge was expected (-).

    Power: 2,25
    5th level casting and minor Corrupt Avenger casting, 16 BAB, decent skills. Your overall HP would be in the way to hold yourself in melee but everything in your build is directed in that way despite having quite some arcane casting power.

    Elegance: 2
    You dont qualify for Weapon Finesse (+0 BAB) (-0,5). No Wisdom score listed (-0,5). You made a mistake calculating BAB: At lvl 9 Battle Sorcerer would give BAB +0 (Fifth level Battle Sorcerer) therefor you would have to take another level of Battle Sorcerer before entering Corrupt Avenger (-0,5). No Citation (especially using ravenloft ACFs) would have been very much appreciated to spare me some google fu (-). Table is confusing (sweet spot another build table) (-).

    UotSI: 1
    Sorry, but your build literally gets close to nothing out of Corrupt Avenger. You only take 4 levels. The class features do nothing for you. You would be way better off with Battle Sorcerer 16 or another Prestige class that progresses your arcane casting.


    Brooswayn 13,25
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    Originality: 3,25
    Warblade was expected, Hellreaver not. Hellbred are always fun. The usual demoralizer schtick [2,75]. You made me chuckle with Brooswayn. As the DM I would always give you loot including Bat -Vermin Repellent or similar. I like your whole „make them run, let them run, hit them even harder when they come back“ strategy.(+0,5)

    Power: 2,75
    Demoralizer with spells and maneuvers. Your melee potential is well thought out but falls short of shocktrooper/charger builds. Nevertheless it's decent. Hellreaver even gives you a healing option [3,25]. Too bad there's no room for more tricks in this build (-0,5).

    Elegance: 5
    Citation complete(+0,5), build flows (+0,5). You qualify for everything and showed your craftiness by dipping warblade late and getting a way to cycle holy fury (+0,5).

    UotSI: 2,25
    You enter late and take it to completion [2,5]. The class features add something to your build but not more than they would to every other demoralizer (+0,25). None of the other class features get any treatment (-0,5).


    Angelique 13,5
    Spoiler
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    Originality: 3,75
    Duskblade was expected, Soulborn and Hellreaver not. Using MoI to ignore ability damage and abuse that is not new, but i never before saw it used with hellreaver [3,5]. Story is detailled and kept me interested through the whole write up (+0,25).

    Power: 3,25
    Very capable, tanky frontliner with some spell options and soulmeld (3,25). Holy fury cycle is a nice use of free actions (+0,5). Pretty combat focused (-).

    Elegance: 4,5
    Many things in your build made me think: this is crafty, nicely put together (breaking points of classes used) (+0,5). Build flows perfect (+0,5). Adding skill points and putting down the totals would have made my job easier (-).Everything cited (+0,5). Gaining moderate taint to enter CA means your alignment shifts to neutral. You would lose all Soulborn class features (-0,5).

    UotSI: 2
    You enter very late and don't complete the SI [2]. Worse: you don't qualify for the SI, because you get the bonus feat and therefor moderate taint at level 9, you would need it at 8 (-0,5). Grim resolve is used nicely with mettle (+0,5).


    Shane 11,75
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    Originality: 3,25
    Duskblade 3 once more... spellthief dip... You caught my attention with mage of the arcane order and axiomatic bloodline [3]. Story was pretty unique (+0,25).

    Power: 3
    Wands+UMD+Familiar, trapfinding, decent melee, a lot of low level spells [3]. Great versatility when you have time (+0,5). Very little defensive abilities (-0,5).

    Elegance: 4
    At some points i thought why didn't you level another class instead? (-) Everything cited (+0,5). Note sure what MC and MT stands for but i guess these are your taint bonus feats (-).

    UotSI: 1,5
    You enter the SI late but complete it [2,5]. None of the class features get a special treatment (-0,5). Mage of the arcane order would have been better on many levels than the SI (0,5).


    Bug 10,75
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    Originality: 2,5
    You had me with Diopsid, you lost me with pounce/shocktrooper/imperious command [2,5].

    Power: 2,5
    You have one trick consisting of two parts (charge – intimidate) with casting sprinkled over it [3]. You try to add something else (trapfinding), but lack the skillpoints to actually be able to fulfill that role (-). Defense is lacking (-0,5).

    Elegance: 3,5
    Everything cited (+0,5), build flows (+0,5). You don't qualify for Imperious command (-0,5).

    UotSI: 2,25
    You enter late and take it to completion [2,5]. The class features add something to your build but not more than they would to every other demoralizer (+0,25). None of the other class features get any treatment (-0,5).


    The damned crab 12,25
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    Originality: 3,25
    Totemist and Telflammar Shadowlord immediately caught my attention. Azurin Paladin did slow my initial enthusiasm [3,25].


    Power: 3,5
    You pack a nice punch, have defensive utility and are able to add versatility via souldmelds [3,5].

    Elegance: 3
    Everything cited (+0,5). Using Blink shirt to qualify for Telflammar Shadowlord is very DM dependent, your alternate path would hurt you powerwise (-0,5). Multiclass penalties after level 7 (-0,5). Why didn't you get more totemist levels to spare some feats? (-)

    UotSI: 2,5
    You enter fairly early and take 9 levels [2,5]. Skills related to Sworn foe boosted via Soulmelds(+0,5). None of the other class features get any treatment (-0,5).


    Rand: 14,5
    Spoiler
    Show

    Originality: 3
    As an avid fan of the drow I naturally have to hate your entry (-). Martial class, Full BAB arcane class into JPM is known optimization but the presented character makes up for it by being particularly interesting [3].

    Power: 4,5
    Full BAB, a lot of maneuvers (including the always debated iron heart surge), spellcasting + progression via JPM [4].

    Elegance: 5
    Everything cited (+0,5). Build flows (+0,5). You qualify for everything (-). Your chosen feats and maneuvers, as well as break points for classes, make sense and showcase your abilities as a chef (+0,5).

    UotSI: 2
    You enter fairly early and take all 10 levels [3]. Grim resolve outshines indomitable soul(-). None of the class features get any treatment (-0,5). You wrote down your thoughts on JPM and CA and which of the two is the more dominant prestige class. I have to admit I feel like your build is more powerful if you don't complete the SI and take levels of JPM instead (-0,5).


    Pantaleon: 7,25
    Spoiler
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    Originality: 2
    Your dish is an interesting build, but not a character. I couldn't find anything pointing me towards a backstory [2].

    Power: 2,75
    Full BAB, some spells, some debuffing and persisted haste [3]. You will hit often but not very hard and your build has some ramp up time (-0,25).

    Elegance: 1
    Here is a list of things you don't qualify for: Expeditious Dodge and Mobility (Dex), Swiftblade (Concentration, Spellcraft; Expeditious Dodge/Mobility → Dex), Rapid Blitz (Dex), Ocular spell (Knowledge: dungeoneering). I didn't add up each penalty, but instead set your score to 1. If you feel this is too harsh, I apologize, but in the end I have to draw a line somewhere.

    UotSI: 1,5
    You enter fairly early, but only take 5 levels [2,25]. You picked up haste and left. You did nothing else with the SI (-0,75).


    Leilani 12,25
    Spoiler
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    Originality: 3,5
    At this point I picked up my oriental adventures and read maho-tsukai already. Still nice pick up. The rest of the chassis is also quite unique [4]. Too bad i didn't get a glimpse of Leilanis personality (-0,5).

    Power: 3
    So 9th level spells of a very broad spell list. Clearly you are powerful considerung you also get BAB 16 and some other utilities. Let's just settle on this: Your ramp up time is massive, so is your benefit, so i'll award you the golden middle of points [3].

    Elegance: 2,25
    Massive ramp up time and massive benefit means your build has a certain breaking point therefor it's not really flowing (-). A citation regarding godsblood spelltheft would have been appreciated (-). The Crimson Road class feature might cause trouble at tables as it is an somewhat old version of flurry of blows (-0,5). Mostly disturbing though: the Akutsukai template is clearly not for a PC. OA pg. 236:
    Characters who progress far enough in one of these prestige classes become creatures of the Shadowlands themselves, transformed through the application of the akutsukai (“servant of evil”) template.
    To me this means: no, don't, not even with a lenient DM (-0,75).

    UotSI: 3,5
    You enter fairly early and take all 10 levels [3]. Grim resolve is used nicely (+0,5). maho-tsukai makes excellent use of the taint (+0,5). None of the other class features are mentioned (-0,5).

  20. - Top - End - #410
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Thank you all for judging!

    On other notes..

    I had this stub idea that came to me a bit after the contest ended, it was going to use Bard with its charisma to maximize the charisma side of Corrupt Avenger. Unfortunately I didn't really work it out further than that, but the bard kind of came to me a little late.

  21. - Top - End - #411
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Another dispute (not that I'm surprised, this round)
    Quote Originally Posted by Braxton
    Alright, I just have a few questions for everyone, clear up my confusion and maybe get around to posting a few disputes.

    Relytdan-
    I don't really know where my rules interpertation penalty is coming from, can you explain that one?

    Also, I don't really rely on any items, I posted them to have a nice stub incase people wanted to use the character for themselves.

    Finally, I don't have multiclass penalties, that was what being human was for. I felt like even though barbarian was a dip, it did more for me than the extra two (5?) levels of warblade would have.

    Ponies-
    On the defensive attributes, I do have two out of four of my readied manuevers always devoted to making sure if someone hits me, they will have to contend with my own attack bonus as my new AC. Secondly, I do only have one spell rage, but with the 4 rages I got, not exactly sure if extra rage would translate over to spell rage or not, I went with no, but that one spell rage is usually enough to take care of that last encounter, the first 4 rages should be enough to take care of the rest. I do have my spells devoted to mostly buff and debuff, which should help out on my utility, at least for battlefield control. I'll admit scouting is not my forte.

    On the corrupt avenger part.. you got me there. I went with being corrupted by the amount of power, being jaded by what he has done until finally he just snaps, coming over to the corruption. I'll admit I'm not very good at fluff. This took me a good portion of the contest to write, what I had.
    It is true that I gave the other portions of the SI minimal mention, mainly because they weren't really the highlights that I saw. Frightful fury is a very nice ability, and I hope I played it out to its fullest.

    Korahir-
    Unnamed.. no, I'm Braxton. However, I will admit I took serious references from Conan (Check the quote right above my background, straight conan reference), and thought.. (What if Conan turned corrupt?) I tried to bring this out, and I like to feel that I did pretty well.

    On the warblade, warblade 6 would've gotten me less than barbarian 2 did, I felt. The character was built originally as full barbarian, and kept slowly changing the more I thought about it. Iron Heart Surge is just too strong. However, I only use it to get rid of nauseated and sickened, as well as fatigued after a rage. I went with the extra two levels of ragemage to grab a final rage per day (4/day). I felt that was stronger than trying to glue in JPM, which I did consider but thought it not fitting the theme I was going with. (Felt it would be a blatant power grab I'd get penalized in Elegance for) Con over Str was to grab extra corruption, so that I would be able to cast more spells. Also, my damage is pretty considerable even without more Str, so I went to up my HP as well. Felt it was the better choice.

    Yes, I don't mention my taint, I read over the heroes of horror and saw the different parts about how where if you fight evil, you gain taint. I used that as my basis, doing odd jobs, fighting any evil I could fight, slowly becoming more like the evil I fought without knowing.

    On casting while raging- I can also use maneuvers at the same time, as I checked- none of the maneuvers I grabbed require concentration, so I can use any of them I want.

    Finally, I noticed no one really commented on the Instantaneous rage, which I am the only person to have picked up. It is really quite powerful, having the ability to completely demoralize my opponents during their turn using the rest of my abilities.

    Thank all of the judges for judging this round, may the best Chef win.

  22. - Top - End - #412
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Quote Originally Posted by Magralyx
    Thanks for judging PONIES! No real disputes here, just some clarifications and questions:
    No problem! Your appreciation is appreciated. Since you're not really disputing anything, I'd just like to make the expectation clear that I won't be revisiting your score. Instead, my comments below are for clarification as requested. If anything evolves into a true dispute, just let the Chairman know. I'm sure he's forgotten what an empty inbox looks like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magralyx
    It's worth noting that Arcane Strike is here to provide a method for using the resources from the SI to harm undead. Avenging Strike for Evil Outsiders, Arcane Strike for Undead, and Tainted strike for everything else (because undead and evil outsiders are immune to it). And I know that Never Outnumbered is a common thing to take, but to leave it out of this SI would have been criminal.

    Also, I did include the Social Recovery skill trick, but I'm guessing that is covered under the CHA synergy comment?
    YYURYYUBICURYY4ME. In other words, yep--Social Recovery was covered in my comments about your clever ways to apply CHA synergy. I understand the reasons for Arcane Strike--it's even a forgivable grab for pretty much any gish. But the sheer number of people snagging Never Outnumbered in this round was the real offense. It's not criminal to swim against the school every once in a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magralyx
    Could you clarify this point? I kind of figured that the main tricks came from the two classes chosen (and the feats), given that they provide the abilities that make use of the huge CHA bonus of the Succubus. The Sp abilities are nice, but what about them constitutes "main trick"?
    That huge CHA bonus of the succubus? That's the "main trick" I was talking about. The only problem with all the CHA synergy is that the source of the CHA is highly dependent on your DM allowing you to play an ECL 12 creature. Without that, your CHA drops by about 16, which makes a -8 to all the fun stuff you're using CHA for. Hence the deduction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magralyx
    You are the second judge to mention this, and I'm still confused by it (although you at least put it in Elegance, where I figured I'd take a hit of some kind on this). Nothing states that the alignment shift can't happen before play starts (although I chose not to put that in the fluff). Also, it looks like I didn't spell it out, but the helm in the story was intended to be a Helm of Opposite Alignment.

    All that said, there is precedent for a Lawful Good Succubus (I didn't chose the race by accident), as per the WotC Succubus Paladin they posted on their website. Could you point out the rule that I seem to be missing which makes this a non-viable option here? relytdan seems to have refused to further clarify, so right now you're my only hope.

    Also, due to the way Alignment based subtypes work, Magralyx will be affected by every spell that targets based on alignment. So Holy Word and Hammer of Law (because of her subtypes), and Unholy Word and Chaos Hammer (because of her alignment), would all affect her equally. How's that for silly?
    Being affected by almost all effects regarding alignment is pretty silly, and silliness like that is frowned upon by a large handful of DMs. Yes, WotC created an NPC of a succubus paladin. However, in the same article they also present the possibility of her as an ex-paladin and blackguard. They didn't create that article to provide a playable character class, but to present a unique NPC. Let's look what the Monster Manual Glossary has to say about "Always X" alignment creatures like the succubus:

    Quote Originally Posted by MM, pg 305
    The creature is born with the indicated alignment. The creature may have a hereditary predisposition to the alignment or come from a plane that predetermines it. It is possible for individuals to change alignment, but such individuals are either unique or rare exceptions.
    So what I'm saying isn't that by RAW you can't play a LG succubus. Instead, what I'm saying is that different DMs will respond differently to the idea of their PCs being "unique or rare exceptions." I'm all for it at my table, but the majority of DMs I've played under haven't had the same perspective. For me, Elegance is half about RAW stuff, sure--but the other half is about how "plug and play" the build is at a variety of tables.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magralyx
    I thought this was clear in the build writeup, but I'll clarify here (I missed a few clarifying points, it would seem). I could have gone straight into the SI as a succubus. Given that a Succubus is an ECL 12 character, that leaves only 8 levels. So there isn't room for any more. The level of Battle Dancer was a blatant power grab for the ridiculous AC synergy. And given that Corrupt Avenger 8 is actually a dead level, losing it doesn't hurt the build any.
    When I look for an explanation of why the Secret Ingredient wasn't completed, I'm less looking for an explanation of why you took what you did and more looking for an explanation of why you chose it over the Secret Ingredient. I didn't see that in your write-up, hence the reason for my scoring. I agree about the level of Battle Dancer, though--you couldn't NOT take it given your sky-high CHA.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lost Crab
    Ponies thanks for judging and actually taking the time to make comments it is much appreciated.
    No problem! Thanks again for the thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lost Crab
    I'm really sorry to say that I totally say that I forgot the CHA requirement of Imperious Command it seemed such an obvious choice...
    I'm sorry, too. I hate to deduct for things that are so easy to correct, but I have to score the build as presented.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lost Crab
    I'm really glad that you liked the backstory it was complicated to come up with, I had the character but I didn't know how to transmit the feeling I wanted, at the end I thought that a description from a stranger would be the best course.
    It really aided the samurai feel of the entry--nicely done!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lost Crab
    On power yes, I am a power attacker with bonuses to hit, and that might be boring, but I would like to remark that at level 20 those bonuses are +60 to all attacks and that it has 8 attacks (7 base + haste; which is in the spell list). Also I know that it is little to say in a defensive manner but I avoided shock trooper which is one of the typical power attacker feats (that burns on defense) and my HP pool is quite significant with 17d12 and really high CON.
    I agree that you have high bonuses to hit, but part of what I look for in terms of offense is what you're doing on a successful hit. Without a source of bonus damage aside from Power Attack or rider effects, your only hope is death by a thousand cuts. In terms of defense, there's plenty of other things that can hurt you aside from HP damage. I appreciate the avoidance of Shock Trooper, but defense is more than just HP (and AC, even!). I look for decent saves, ways to impose miss chance, DR, etc. The Lost Crab didn't have a lot of defensive options aside from his bucket of HP, which is why I couldn't give full points. Scoring stands.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lost Crab
    Corruption wise I thought I made it clear; Heroes of Horror Sidebar page 66: "Spending time in the Shadowlands increases a character’s corruption score, which can be resisted with successful Fortitude saving throws, as described in Oriental Adventures." The increase, per raw, is corruption.
    I understand that the Shadowlands increase your corruption score. However, my main problem was increasing your corruption score so much at your first level. Maho-Bujin was a PRC created for a different taint system, and I don't think there was any intention for the PrC to be entered at 2nd level. That's the reason for the deduction; if the PRC came online a few levels later, I probably wouldn't have raised an eyebrow. Scoring stands.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lost Crab
    On the crimson road thingie... the maho-bujin has not been updated anywhere, and I can only say that it doesn't reference monk at any point.
    Hmm, I see a reference to the monk right in the description of Crimson Road. Here's the relevant text:

    Quote Originally Posted by OA, pg 237
    Crimson Road (Ex): Maho-bujins make additional melee attacks in a round like a monk's unarmed attacks: Each additional attack is made at a base attack bonus 3 points lower than the previous.
    Like a monk's unarmed attacks? I don't know any 3.5 reference to a monk making additional attacks in a round at a base attack bonus 3 points lower than the previous. Scoring stands.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lost Crab
    Finally on the taint suppression I didn't make a mention to it since due to how OA taint was updated (according again to the sidebar on page 66 of Heroes of Horror) they are pretty much the same class feature. It also doesn't seem much use either way, since being in the shadowlands the Lost Crab is continually in a tainted area; also internal corruption would reduce his CON score and the Lost Crab doesn't want that.
    Either way you slice it, The Lost Crab limits himself. Either he never leaves the Shadowlands (which seemed the intent) and thus requires a compliant DM, or he leaves the Shadowlands and has two instances of Taint Suppression. This kind of redundancy in class features is what's being deducted here. Scoring stands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Braxton
    On the defensive attributes, I do have two out of four of my readied manuevers always devoted to making sure if someone hits me, they will have to contend with my own attack bonus as my new AC. Secondly, I do only have one spell rage, but with the 4 rages I got, not exactly sure if extra rage would translate over to spell rage or not, I went with no, but that one spell rage is usually enough to take care of that last encounter, the first 4 rages should be enough to take care of the rest. I do have my spells devoted to mostly buff and debuff, which should help out on my utility, at least for battlefield control. I'll admit scouting is not my forte.
    As I said above, there are more ways than HP damage to hurt you. I look for options when it comes to defense, and upping your AC 2/encounter isn't enough for me to call that base covered. In terms of utility, I'm looking for out of combat use primarily. Battlefield control is something I consider to be an offensive asset, and buffs/debuffs can contribute offensively or defensively, but none stood out to me as defensive options. On the issue of rage, I forgot about your Extra Rage feat. Whether it translates to spell rage or not, it gives you enough rages to rage on throughout the day. +0.5 to Power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Braxton
    On the corrupt avenger part.. you got me there. I went with being corrupted by the amount of power, being jaded by what he has done until finally he just snaps, coming over to the corruption. I'll admit I'm not very good at fluff. This took me a good portion of the contest to write, what I had.
    It is true that I gave the other portions of the SI minimal mention, mainly because they weren't really the highlights that I saw. Frightful fury is a very nice ability, and I hope I played it out to its fullest.
    Yeah, fluff can be tricky. Even if you have an idea in your head, it can be difficult to translate it into writing in a way that others get the idea as well. You had some fear/intimidation optimization going on, but that wasn't exactly a standout feature of any build this round. Scoring stands.
    Last edited by OMG PONIES; 2013-10-31 at 09:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Ponies, the Kim Karsdashian of GITP.
    This is what happens when they let me DM:
    Beyond the Horizon IC / OOC
    A Time to Die: Alpha IC / Bravo IC / OOC

  23. - Top - End - #413
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    New Judge, new partially successful dispute, new table.

    Results After Three Judges and Some Disputes
    {table=head]Entry|Medal|Total|Average
    Rand Turimbar|Gold|48.75|4.0625
    Sir Driscoll Conia|Silver|44.75|3.7292
    Brooswayn Scourgesoul|Bronze|43.75|3.6458
    The Lost Crab|Bronze|43.75|3.6458
    Designation MDCCCLXXXVI|Fifth|42.75|3.5625
    Angelique A'lanale|Sixth|42.5|3.5417
    Eillyassa Miltal|Seventh|42.25|3.5208
    Braxton|Eighth|41.75|3.4792
    Magralyx|Ninth|41.5|3.4583
    Leilani|Tenth|41.25|3.4375
    The Damned of the Crab|Eleventh|40.25|3.3542
    Shane MacLaughlan|Twelfth|39.5|3.2917
    Bug|Thirteenth|37.75|3.1458
    Giorgio|Fourteenth|36|3
    Smeagol|Fifteenth|34.5|2.875
    Pantaleon Dalence|Sixteenth|33.25|2.7708
    [/table]

  24. - Top - End - #414
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post

    Second, to relytdan: a few calculation questions:
    [LIST][*]Designation MDCCCLXXXVI: Total Originality deductions currently show -1, but tally is -1.25. Total score seems to be based on -1.25 and thus remains unchanged.[*]Magralyx: Score shows 12, but tally is 11.75. Which is correct? Table currently shows tally-based score.[*]Braxton: Elegance deduction "multiclass" shows -5, but score is based on -.5. Just a minor note.[*]Giorgio: Total Power deductions currently show -2, but tally is -1.5. This seems to be affecting the Total Score, which currently shows 13.25 though tally is 13.75. Which is correct? Table currently shows tally-based score. [*]Brooswayn Scourgesoul: Power deduction "any help" currently shows -5, but score is based off -.5. Just a minor note.[*]Shane MacLaughlan: Total Elegance deductions show -1.75, but tally is -1.25. Total score seems to be based off -1.25 and thus remains unchanged.[*]Pantaleon Dalence: Total Elegance deductions show -1.5, but tally is -0.75. Total score shows 14.25, but tally is 14.5. Which is correct? Table currently shows tally-based score.
    ****

    Magralyx: Score shows 12
    Braxton: add a decimal point to make it read-.5
    Giorgio: Total Score, which currently shows 13.25
    Brooswayn: add a decimal point to make it read-.5
    Pantaleon: Total score shows 14.25

  25. - Top - End - #415
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Quote Originally Posted by relytdan View Post
    ****

    Magralyx: Score shows 12
    Braxton: add a decimal point to make it read-.5
    Giorgio: Total Score, which currently shows 13.25
    Brooswayn: add a decimal point to make it read-.5
    Pantaleon: Total score shows 14.25
    By the way relytdan, there are still disputes you haven't responded to, in the same post as the Chairman made the ruling about basic classes, and then Braxton's, a few posts before yours.
    Last edited by yougi; 2013-11-01 at 07:33 AM.
    Spoiler: ICitP Participations
    Show

    L - Corrupt Avenger - Brooswayn Scourgesoul (4th)
    LI - Black Flame Zealot - Anubis (SILVER)


    Blackguard Avatar from Cealocanth

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Eh, he's already said he's not interested and that he is also disinclied to do any changes to scores.

    Just a shame that its come to this in the 'competition'.

  27. - Top - End - #417
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Let's try to stay positive, folks! Judging is a huge undertaking, and we've all missed things or left something unanswered at some point. Remember, at the end of the day this is supposed to be fun. If a round's particularly bad, there's always next round.

    Tallies Somewhere During Disputes But Who Can Really Keep Track Any More All I Know is that We've Had Three Judges
    {table=head]Entry|Medal|Total|Average
    Rand Turimbar|Gold|48.75|4.0625
    Sir Driscoll Conia|Silver|44.75|3.72916666666667
    Brooswayn Scourgesoul|Bronze|43.75| 3.64583333333333
    The Lost Crab|Bronze|43.75| 3.64583333333333
    Angelique A'lanale|Fifth|43|3.583333333
    Designation MDCCCLXXXVI|Fifth|43|3.583333333
    Eillyassa Miltal|Seventh|42.75|3.5625
    Braxton|Eighth|41.75|3.479166667
    Magralyx|Eighth|41.75|3.479166667
    Leilani|Tenth|41.25|3.4375
    The Damned of the Crab|Eleventh|40.25|3.354166667
    Shane MacLaughlan|Twelfth|39.5|3.291666667
    Bug|Thirteenth|38.25|3.1875
    Giorgio|Fourteenth|36|3
    Smeagol|Fifteenth|34.5|2.875
    Pantaleon Dalence|Sixteenth|33|2.75[/table]

    Quote Originally Posted by relytdan View Post
    Magralyx: Score shows 12
    Braxton: add a decimal point to make it read-.5
    Giorgio: Total Score, which currently shows 13.25
    Brooswayn: add a decimal point to make it read-.5
    Pantaleon: Total score shows 14.25
    Are Giorgio and Pantaleon are being penalized for an addition error on the part of the judge, or were there additional deductions not accounted for in your table that made it into the final score?

    Speaking of addition errors on the part of judges, a few quick arithmetic questions for Korahir:
    • Braxton: UoSI score reads 3.25, but tally is 2.75. Total seems to be based on 2.75. Which is correct?
    • Eillyassa: Based on the category scores given, I'm getting a total of 12.25 rather than 11.75.
    • Angelique: Power score reads 3.25, but tally is 3.75. Total should be 14.
    • Bug: Elegance score reads 3.5, but tally is 4. Total should be 11.25.
    Last edited by OMG PONIES; 2013-11-01 at 08:24 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Ponies, the Kim Karsdashian of GITP.
    This is what happens when they let me DM:
    Beyond the Horizon IC / OOC
    A Time to Die: Alpha IC / Bravo IC / OOC

  28. - Top - End - #418
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Braxton adjusted total score is 16.5
    Giorgio and Pantaleon - quite honestly the score listed was the final score the table information is slightly off - sorry for the confussion. - you can thank the chairman for it.

    Vaz-

    Eh, he's already said he's not interested and that he is also disinclied to do any changes to scores.

    Just a shame that its come to this in the 'competition'
    fist off it is "SHE" but what the heck you didn't ask so go figure-
    second to quote myself I said that I was disincline to do more with scores at that time and there were 4 days left for judging
    - so get your facts strait before you make bold statements.

    ************
    Magralyx - disputes answered - score stands
    The Lost Crab - disputes answered - score stands
    Eillyassa Mital - disputes answered - score stands
    Smeagol - disputes answered - score stands
    Driscoll - disputes answered - score stands
    Brooswayn - disputes answered - score stands
    Braxton - disputes answered - score stands
    Last edited by relytdan; 2013-11-01 at 08:35 AM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Quote Originally Posted by relytdan View Post
    Braxton adjusted total score is 16.5
    To confirm, the last official score I see from you on Braxton was 16.25. Does this 16.5 represent a +0.25 addition in response to a dispute? Later in your post you mentioned that Braxton's score stood, but the final amended score I saw was 16.25 so 16.5 would represent a scoring change. Sorry, not trying to split hairs, just trying to make sure I record the scores correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by relytdan View Post
    Giorgio and Pantaleon - quite honestly the score listed was the final score the table information is slightly off - sorry for the confussion. - you can thank the chairman for it.
    The addition error in Giorgio's score was present from your intial scoring post; I fail to see how that's the Chairman's fault. You listed -1.5 points of individual deductions, but then stated the total deductions from the category were -2. I'm trying to determine if there was another -.5 individual deduction somewhere that wasn't listed or if it was just a math error in arriving at -2.

    When it comes to Pantaleon's score, I see that a deduction for "basic build" was removed from the table but never made it to the total score. Since other builds saw their total score updated at the Chairman's request, updating Pantaleon's total score as well is merely a matter of consistency.

    Again, I'm sorry for any frustration my numbers obsession might cause. I'm sensing anger in your responses, and I don't know if that's because emotion doesn't translate well through the Internet or because my questions are angering you. I'm not trying to upset you; I'm just trying to quiet the voices in my head that start barking at me when I see math errors.
    Last edited by OMG PONIES; 2013-11-01 at 08:51 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Ponies, the Kim Karsdashian of GITP.
    This is what happens when they let me DM:
    Beyond the Horizon IC / OOC
    A Time to Die: Alpha IC / Bravo IC / OOC

  30. - Top - End - #420
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Below sea level
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Guys, I gotta admit I'm out of my depth. I throw my judging hat in the ring. it seems my judging fu (especially when it comes to judging power) is too weak for this iteration of IC. That and the fact that these weeks I have exams for which I need to devote some time means I don't have enough time to judge the builds and increase my system mastery (mostly becuase of usage of savage species and incarnum) to perform a rating of builds within the quality as is expected of me. For those of you wanting to know my general impressions I've spoilered them to not influence judges how are still compiling their scores. Oh, and I will certainly vote for the horourable mention.

    Spoiler: general impressions of a beginner
    Show

    So, first of the bat, great fluff everyone! Just reading the stories had me absorbed into the competition and secret ingredient. I especially loved the pop culture references (though admittantly some flew over my head by miles).

    Things I liked about the entires is a relative powercurve. In almost every build the SI actually added to the character's potential, even though some people focused on the skill and social aspect of it (skillbonuses against sworn foes) while other's used the SI to full combat potential.

    In some builds I missed a clear description of the taint and how it's flavour would interact with the character. And even though fmechanicaly some builds did not have any taint effects by raw, I at least woudl have liked the mention of "By Raw blabla is immune to taint, but if the DM would want to handwaive it, or for story purposes I'd imagine blabla to have the follwoing taint effects playing them out so and so.

    And in short, some of the builds I wanted to play desperately, others I had some sort of reluctance to. All in all I'd better study up for a next time on incarnum sinc ethe system still confuses the bejeebus out of me (yes I read the handbooks, still raising questionmarks when I encounter it).
    Warlock Poetry?
    Or ways to use me in game?
    Better grab a drink...

    Currently ruining Strahd's day - Avatar by the Outstanding Smuchsmuch

    First Ordained Jr. Tormlet by LoyalPaladin

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