Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

[yougi]

Is there any way to voluntarily turn off the Taint Suppression outside of going into a tainted area?

Your depravity manifests in the normal range of mental symptoms, but you can replace any physical symptom of corruption with the internal corruption symptom.

I'd say this means you don't have to suppress them...

[Dusk Eclipse]

I am really excited to see what people can cook up with this Secret Ingredient, because I seriously have no idea what to do with it.

[Venger]

I am really excited to see what people can cook up with this Secret Ingredient, because I seriously have no idea what to do with it.

I find myself in a similar position.

Weirdly, its lack of direction regarding its prereqs is almost harder to work with than a more stringent SI, like orcus.

[GreenSerpent]

Mmmm, I have a really weird entry planned.

On other points, reposted from a little ago (the thread was busy then I believe):

Important question. Regarding the Prophetic depravity trait, it states you suffer the effects of continuous nightmares. This would result in being constantly exhausted and gaining infinite amounts of depravity (as of page 54 HoH - as there is no way to lift or prevent the nightmares, there is no relief from them, and so the DC to avoid depravity continues scaling upwards).

Considering this is vital to my character idea, this seems slightly out of wack with the rest of the minor depravity penalties. What is the Chairman's decision regarding this?

[Dusk Eclipse]

I find myself in a similar position.

Weirdly, its lack of direction regarding its prereqs is almost harder to work with than a more stringent SI, like orcus.

I agree completely, the entry requirements usually give me some sort of starting point, but Corrupt avenger is so broad I can't decide on anything proper.

[Tim Proctor]

I finished mine, sent it in, luckily I had a grip of time today. I'm excited to see what people post.

Since the Chairman already veto'd the unlimited taint aspect for undead and such I'm guessing the run-away-chain of nightmares isn't going to happen.

[Vaz]

I'd say this means you don't have to suppress them...

Choosing to replace a symptom (gained at the time of the requisite corruption) is not the same as heing able to turn it on and off, except at its most liberal of readings.

[Deadline]

I feel really dumb. I can't think of anything to do with this ingredient! BAH!

[thethird]

While my build is mostly settled I have one important question. On the rules of taint does the SRD take precedence over Heroes of Horror? I would say no for the SRD uses the rules from Unearthed Arcana which are older than the rules in Heroes of Horror, but I am not sure.

[Venger]

While my build is mostly settled I have one important question. On the rules of taint does the SRD take precedence over Heroes of Horror? I would say no for the SRD uses the rules from Unearthed Arcana which are older than the rules in Heroes of Horror, but I am not sure.

That's an excellent question. The general rule is that the more recent source (heroes of horror in this instance) would take precedence.

What's the ruling, chairman?

[Kazyan]

I have a build, but there's no way it fits all the criteria of quality. Oh well. I'll work at it anyway.

[mattie_p]

I have a build, but there's no way it fits all the criteria of quality. Oh well. I'll work at it anyway.

I'd say go for it anyway. Of course, last round I was nearly disqualified for breaking the rules, but I went for it anyway. Maybe you don't want to listen to me.

[Kazyan]

I'd say go for it anyway. Of course, last round I was nearly disqualified for breaking the rules, but I went for it anyway. Maybe you don't want to listen to me.

The last time I did something this offbeat and elegance-1.5ing, it got 4th place and HM...

What the hey, it's funny to me.

[The Viscount]

I've...sort of got something for this one. Don't know that I'll have the time to do it, though. If not I'll mention rough idea at the reveal.

[Biotroll]

I feel my depravity score rising when I'm just thinking of how to use this SI. Still I think I'm in for this round as I vizzinied myself to an idea that just might work. We shall see.

Ah the pain of finding errors in the post after you submit it.

[Korahir]

Since I really enjoyed the last round with 3 judges, I'll try to judge this round. I'll post my criteria here (changes to criteria can happen).

Spoiler

Show

General things
Please cite your sources. I don't wanna google fu things i don't know if you can simply write down the books used.
I won't judge dishes that don't follow the Rules of the Iron Chef Challenge as well as dishes breaking the rules of the forum.
I'll give some examples for the specific scores for Power and Originality. Since Elegance and UotSI are more tricky, I will write down what i expect.


Originality
Originality comes in two forms: the build and the character as presented in your write up. Please keep in mind that expectation is a big part of originality. If I exptected certain classes, tricks or characteristics used, this might differ from the expectations of other judges.

5 points: You blew my mind. The presented dish is an original build idea merged with an interesting character concept.
4 points: Either your build or your character concept are original. Either or both are above Iron Chef standards (as perceived by me).
3 points: Your build is known, but you used it in a surprising way OR Your build is well known, the presented character makes up for it by being particularly interesting. Your dish is what I expect when reading an Iron Chef entry.
2 points: Your dish is an interesting build, but not a character OR Your build is a well known stub with something sprinkled over it.
1 point: Your dish is a well known build and is only a build, not a character.

Power
I'm judging dishes regarding power asking myself two questions: Are you consistently powerful from level 1-20? What role(s) are you trying to excel at?

5 points: You have more than one trick. You are excellent at what you do from level 1-20.
4 points: You excel at multiple roles but need some time to get there.
3 points: You are a well rounded addition to any party at any level OR You fulfill multiple roles and are more than decent at them OR You have some dead levels before starting to shine.
2 points: You have one trick and you a really good at it, but only at certains level.
1 point: You have one trick and are not even good at that one.


Elegance
What I'd like to see:
Clean builds, where you qualify for everything without using questionable stuff. I won't penalize dips, but a 5/10/5 or similar will probably score higher. A high score means your build flows nicely. Feats, Classes and Class abilities work nicely together. Nothing seems to have been added just to get power or originality. You are welcome at any table.

What I don't like:
If you depend on Wishloops, Shapechange shenanigans, Chaos shuffle, etc. expect heavy deductions. If I can't figure out what some of your tricks are due to a poor write up, expect a deduction. A low score means your build is hard to read or seems to be consisting of different parts glued together or is using questionable mechanics. Certain groups or GMs might refuse to allow you to sit down at their table.


UotSI
When do you enter the SI?
What use do make of the class abilities, BAB, saves, skills?
Would another Prestige Class be better for your build?
Does your build "feel" like a Corrupt Avenger?

[thethird]

Korahir a question if I may

One of the things that worries me about corrupt avenger is the use of taint. Taint is a mechanic that leads itself to slight abuse and makes complicated playing in a party. Can I assume that as a corrupt avenger using taint fully won't be a negative to Elegance?

[Korahir]

Korahir a question if I may

One of the things that worries me about corrupt avenger is the use of taint. Taint is a mechanic that leads itself to slight abuse and makes complicated playing in a party. Can I assume that as a corrupt avenger using taint fully won't be a negative to Elegance?

I'll try to keep my answer simple: Use taint fully as long as you stay within the rules of the competition and the rulings of the chairman BUT when using taint fully means you get infinite x, or a loop of y, I will penalize because at many tables this would become a problem. If you manage to get a lot out of taint without breaking the game, I'm fine.
Maybe state what kind of game your dish is for (only tier 1 PCs, only tier 3s). I think that would help me.

[Haluesen]

Finally have an idea i like that hopefully isn't too predictable. No as unique as some of my old ones but should be fun nonetheless.

[Vaz]

Urgh, my build's just come apart. Two near enough mutually exclusive classes, but otherwise, perfect synergy in fluff and design. Rargh.

Square 1. Might be judging this one.

[Socratov]

Since I haven't got the slightest OP-fu neccessary to pull this off I happily offer my services as a judge. This would be my first gig judging and IC contest so just for your sake as well as mine I'll post my judging criteria here (assuming you allow me to judge of course):

Originality: I'll judge this in the light of 2 parts:

• among peers. If you have a completely different set of classes then other contestants you'll score higher
• backstory. If you have a creative way of creating the need for your character storywise to enter the sectret ingredient this will definitely score you points. s

Power: Judged in terms of what a character can contribute in various situations: in combat and out of combat. bonus points for clever use of spells, utilizing action economy and skill challenges or social situations. Bonus is possible for turning non obvious weaknesses into strengths.

Elegance: a bit vague to define, but I'll do my best to give a slight quantification here. Bonus points for creating a logical and smooth flow. If the build works towards the secret ingreadient gradually and logically follows into the secret ingredient you get more points thne a build which enters the class non sequitur or ad hoc. Another factor in deciding elegance is the number of hoops the build jumps through to qualify. Lots of obscure feats, ACF's and dipping could cost you points if those feats and dips are not really contributing to the character other then power and early entry.

Use of Secret Ingredient: simple. Do you finish the class or drop out early? do you use only a part of the arsenal the class brings or use every trick in the book (literally)? those are questions I use to determine the score of a build on use of secret ingredient.

Happy building contestants!

[Piggy Knowles]

OK, my build has more or less come together. Still need to finish skills and put together the write-up, but a few little pieces fell into place, making a build I was previously unhappy with work surprisingly well.

Barring unseen complications, I intend to submit an entry this round.

EDIT: Just curious as to your scoring rubric, Socratov. What do you consider an obscure feat?

[Feilith]

Did we ever reach a decision about how sworn foe works?
I heard that we might use the vanilla ranger Favored enemy list, and the Arcanists ACF, and I never saw a response for what we were doing with it.

So Kuhv if you can give a final word so we can figure out what we're all doing

[WhamBamSam]

Since I haven't got the slightest OP-fu neccessary to pull this off I happily offer my services as a judge. This would be my first gig judging and IC contest so just for your sake as well as mine I'll post my judging criteria here (assuming you allow me to judge of course):

I'd say judging takes more op-fu than competing, but I'm glad to have you on board nonetheless. Just one concern I'd like to bring up with your rubric though, which Piggy already mentioned.

Lots of obscure feats, ACF's and dipping could cost you points if those feats and dips are not really contributing to the character other then power and early entry.

From the OP...

Please note the following change: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may be an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not.

[Socratov]

I'd say judging takes more op-fu than competing, but I'm glad to have you on board nonetheless. Just one concern I'd like to bring up with your rubric though, which Piggy already mentioned.

From the OP...

well, what I mean with it if you have a couple of little known feats (like 3 feats from that one issue of dragon that is hard to find) is no biggie, however, I was focusing with my statement on the 'excessive' part. for example:

if you get 7 feats over your career (1 per 3 HD) and 6 of them are from campaign settings like Pekal Gazetteer (which bears the WotC logo), in addition to, say, 4 ACFs which are found in dragon mags it might be bit much and I will deduct. My general rule is such: does the collection of classes, ACFs and feats make sense?

[Venger]

well, what I mean with it if you have a couple of little known feats (like 3 feats from that one issue of dragon that is hard to find) is no biggie, however, I was focusing with my statement on the 'excessive' part. for example:

if you get 7 feats over your career (1 per 3 HD) and 6 of them are from campaign settings like Pekal Gazetteer (which bears the WotC logo), in addition to, say, 4 ACFs which are found in dragon mags it might be bit much and I will deduct. My general rule is such: does the collection of classes, ACFs and feats make sense?

Dragon and 3rd party books are not allowed in this contest, so that shouldn't be an issue.

[Vaz]

Considering such content is considered 3rd party for the purposes of the competition, then feel free to penalise.

However, a Dragon Compendium feat, a Ghostwalk Feat, a Monsters of Faerun feat, a Dragons of Eberron feat, and Fiendish Codex feat might be considered "obscure" in terms of relative ease of access, compared to say a Core only build, should not be penalized.

For example, if I was judging last competition, seeing Supernatural Transformation on an entry was unique; I'd never even seen it (I had, but I'd completely glossed over it before). Because it's 3.0 and considered to be in an easily "broken" book, Savage Species rarely features on my radar; that is hence, fairly obscure, but the OP/FAQ state that its "obscurity" should not factor into elegance.

[Piggy Knowles]

Vaz, only one issue with your example -

Some judges do penalize elegance for combining material from different setting-specific sources, even if the feats themselves don't have setting components to them. Not all judges (including myself), but it does happen.

[thethird]

I'm also partial against using material from more than one setting, specially if it has fluff connections. In my games I do not have a problem with refluffing but I try to er on the side of caution when building online. For example a knight of Solamnia with levels in Suel Arcanamach is slightly pushing it because Suel Arcanamach are originally from greyhawk but being in complete arcane I would even fly with it. If it also had a regional feat from Faerun and a dragonmark from Eberron it would be messy.

[Piggy Knowles]

When I judge, if there's no fluff component built into the feats I don't penalize for cross-setting material. Just because something is from Races of Eberron or Secrets of Sarlona doesn't mean that it actually has anything to do with Eberron. But if you tried to include, say, dragonmarks or Touch of Summoning or something on a build with FR material, I'd definitely dock for that.