A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #121
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Hmm based on this discussion is me not knowing about region or setting specific material a good thing or a bad thing? I tend to stick to non setting materials for games and other online stuff, but still are setting items really good, and is me not using them bad?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amidus Drexel View Post
    Yeah... even if it's a fairly friendly place by the internet's standards... it's still the internet. A certain level of pedantic bickering is to be expected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    The forums can't universally agree that the sun will rise in the east. Disagreement is what we do.
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  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Some setting material is rather good. Most good setting material is also not fluff heavy.

    For example I like a feat called Allied defense from Shining South (Faerun) that allows others to benefit from your combat expertise. This doesn't have any tie to the fluff, and is just good at improving a character concept. I encourage the use of this even if we are in Eberron.

    Other feats can be not fluff heavy but are considered REALLY good to pass, for example, Song of the Heart is a really good feat for bards, specially if they can get it as an ACF. I can be okay with this.

    In some rare cases fluff heavy material is awesomesauce and from two settings, like certain feats for druid summoners, if a druid were to pull those two feats at the same time at my table I would probably not be okay.

    So summing up, you might want to check setting material, it has some nice things.
    Last edited by thethird; 2013-10-12 at 02:13 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Tim Proctor's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Quote Originally Posted by Feilith View Post
    Did we ever reach a decision about how sworn foe works?
    I heard that we might use the vanilla ranger Favored enemy list, and the Arcanists ACF, and I never saw a response for what we were doing with it.

    So Kuhv if you can give a final word so we can figure out what we're all doing
    It's not the same as the Favored Enemy list, as you pick a specific creature type. If you look at the example characters on page 92, one is a ranger with favored enemy (Elves), and sworn foe (Drow). The other one has Githyanki as a sworn foe, and on page 90 in the 'advancement section' it specifically mentions 'black pudding' as a sworn foe instead of oozes. So sworn foe is significantly more focused than favored enemies.
    Last edited by Tim Proctor; 2013-10-12 at 02:47 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #124
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Hmm thank you for the advice, perhaps I shall. I'm sure I must have at least one setting book somewhere, if not there is always the internet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amidus Drexel View Post
    Yeah... even if it's a fairly friendly place by the internet's standards... it's still the internet. A certain level of pedantic bickering is to be expected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    The forums can't universally agree that the sun will rise in the east. Disagreement is what we do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacior
    If I can get a pet dinosaur, I totally will. My low wisdom means a raptor looks like a great guard dog.


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  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Devil

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Proctor View Post
    It's not the same as the Favored Enemy list, as you pick a specific creature type. If you look at the example characters on page 92, one is a ranger with favored enemy (Elves), and sworn foe (Drow). The other one has Githyanki as a sworn foe, and on page 90 in the 'advancement section' it specifically mentions 'black pudding' as a sworn foe instead of oozes. So sworn foe is significantly more focused than favored enemies.
    Because example characters are Paragons of RAW.

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    I just want a finalized ruling so I can use it within our competitions bounds
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  7. - Top - End - #127
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    When in doubt go for the most restrictive reading
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    speaking of restrictive reading, could we get a ruling on what kind of monster/creature type/etc we're allowed to pick for sworn foe? it'll influence what I cook.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
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  9. - Top - End - #129
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Also does anyone know what happens if you pick sworn enemy (basically me) do you explode in a corruption fountain?

    Coming with a backstory is proving complicated, I would need to watch some films to see if they strike my fancy. As is I have only 12 words and they have taken more work than sourcing all my grey lord entry.
    Last edited by thethird; 2013-10-12 at 06:42 PM.
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

  10. - Top - End - #130
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Quote Originally Posted by thethird View Post
    Also does anyone know what happens if you pick sworn enemy (basically me) do you explode in a corruption fountain?

    Coming with a backstory is proving complicated, I would need to watch some films to see if they strike my fancy. As is I have only 12 words and they have taken more work than sourcing all my grey lord entry.
    no because you're an ally to yourself, thus not an enemy.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my new sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New book coming soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
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  11. - Top - End - #131
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Yay I won't become a corruption piņata if I pick my race.
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Quote Originally Posted by thethird View Post
    Yay I won't become a corruption piņata if I pick my race.
    Please title your dish "Corruption Piņata"
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my new sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New book coming soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
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  13. - Top - End - #133
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    So i found a great way to use this dam sworn foe ability, it was really, really, really poorly worded but i should be within the bounds of the prc.

    And i will give you all of my points if you title your entry Corruption pinata (not really but I'd love it)
    Last edited by Feilith; 2013-10-12 at 07:55 PM.
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  14. - Top - End - #134
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    re: my criteria: the question is: "does this [insert feat/
    acf/dip] make sense for my character to have?"

    If it does, fine, If it doesn't, expect to not get full marks for Elegance. It really (in my eyes) is as simple as that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feilith View Post
    So i found a great way to use this dam sworn foe ability, it was really, really, really poorly worded but i should be within the bounds of the prc.

    And i will give you all of my points if you title your entry Corruption pinata (not really but I'd love it)
    well, yes. I try to judge within reason and RAI. If you succeed in using the ability well, then expect a reward for that. If you don't (however poorly worded) well, I'll judge that accordingly.

    I'm really anxious to judge the builds

    It's like an itch I really can't quite reach...
    Warlock Poetry?
    Or ways to use me in game?
    Better grab a drink...

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  15. - Top - End - #135
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    I cannot name my entry corruption piņata, if I where to do so you would know its mine...

    I hope someone goes and name his entry corruption piņata now and I will totally claim to be the author.
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

  16. - Top - End - #136
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    I see myself judging 20 entries all named Corruption Pinata.

  17. - Top - End - #137
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Quote Originally Posted by thethird View Post
    I cannot name my entry corruption piņata, if I where to do so you would know its mine...
    Quote Originally Posted by Korahir View Post
    I see myself judging 20 entries all named Corruption Pinata.
    Well, now, you can't not name your entry Corruption Pinata. We'd know it's yours, since it would be the only one.

    Problem solved!

  18. - Top - End - #138
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Quote Originally Posted by Korahir View Post
    I see myself judging 20 entries all named Corruption Pinata.
    I fully expect every entry with a full BAB prefix to be named Vizzini.
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  19. - Top - End - #139
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    All i gotta do before i submit this entry is change its name to vizzini the corruption pinata and ill be all done
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  20. - Top - End - #140
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Quote Originally Posted by Feilith View Post
    All i gotta do before i submit this entry is change its name to vizzini the corruption pinata and ill be all done
    This will result in at least seven Originality penalties.

  21. - Top - End - #141
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    ... Corrupt Avenger? Wow, that is ... really broad.

    I have inspiration... I am making a character.

  22. - Top - End - #142
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Quote Originally Posted by Feilith View Post
    All i gotta do before i submit this entry is change its name to vizzini the corruption pinata and ill be all done
    Hey, that is my entry. But don't worry I spent the last years building up an immunity against vizzini entries.
    Last edited by thethird; 2013-10-13 at 03:16 PM.
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

  23. - Top - End - #143
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Quote Originally Posted by thethird View Post
    Hey, that is my entry. But don't worry I spent the last years building up an immunity against vizzini entries.
    Beautiful. This should certainly be a trying round for everyone involved. I doubt I'll have the time, so I'm bowing out for this one. Provided nobody cooks with my idea I'll mention it after the reveal.
    Last edited by The Viscount; 2013-10-13 at 09:56 PM.
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  24. - Top - End - #144
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    I've read the thread and might have missed this... I know undead/evil outsiders have a set taint level. Is there a limit to what level taint a living character might possess during this judgement?

    More specifically... Moderate corruption is 8-23 taint for a character with CON 13-16. Would starting at 15 taint be acceptable? I like assuming near average for a given stat range. Also, casting for Corrupt Avenger is 10+taint score (25 in this case). I am new to taint. This means I look up ability score 25 on spellcasting chart to see bonus spells?

  25. - Top - End - #145
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Quote Originally Posted by Piggy Knowles View Post
    When I judge, if there's no fluff component built into the feats I don't penalize for cross-setting material. Just because something is from Races of Eberron or Secrets of Sarlona doesn't mean that it actually has anything to do with Eberron. But if you tried to include, say, dragonmarks or Touch of Summoning or something on a build with FR material, I'd definitely dock for that.
    I agree - some feats are generic enough not to be considered campaign specific, IMHO, even if they appear in FR, Eberron, Ghostwalk, Dragonlance etc.

    Others are very specifically tied to settings, and mix-n-matching these would warrant a deduction if I judge again.

  26. - Top - End - #146
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    I agree - some feats are generic enough not to be considered campaign specific, IMHO, even if they appear in FR, Eberron, Ghostwalk, Dragonlance etc.

    Others are very specifically tied to settings, and mix-n-matching these would warrant a deduction if I judge again.
    You have to consider context and intent otherwise you end up with Pun-Pun. I'm competing so I'll leave it at that, but specific feats are specific.
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  27. - Top - End - #147
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldonauran View Post
    I've read the thread and might have missed this... I know undead/evil outsiders have a set taint level. Is there a limit to what level taint a living character might possess during this judgement?
    If they go above of Severe, they die. So... I'd say that represents a limit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldonauran View Post
    More specifically... Moderate corruption is 8-23 taint for a character with CON 13-16. Would starting at 15 taint be acceptable? I like assuming near average for a given stat range.
    This is my first IC participation, so I'd take my comments with a grain of salt, but I'd say even assuming the max (or near the max to avoid going into Severe if you get more) is not a problem. Although, I'd say you shouldn't base your entire character concept on that corruption score, because in the end, the amount of corruption one can get is not in the player's control, but the DM's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldonauran View Post
    Also, casting for Corrupt Avenger is 10+taint score (25 in this case). I am new to taint. This means I look up ability score 25 on spellcasting chart to see bonus spells?
    Yes.
    Last edited by yougi; 2013-10-14 at 12:41 AM.
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    L - Corrupt Avenger - Brooswayn Scourgesoul (4th)
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  28. - Top - End - #148
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Wow, I have absolutely no inspiration for this SI. Unless my muse whacks me over the head with the creative stick in the next couple of days, I may have to sit this one out :(
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  29. - Top - End - #149
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldonauran View Post
    I've read the thread and might have missed this... I know undead/evil outsiders have a set taint level. Is there a limit to what level taint a living character might possess during this judgement?
    If you go over severe taint you specifically become an NPC, that will probably be a penalty at some point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldonauran View Post
    Also, casting for Corrupt Avenger is 10+taint score (25 in this case). I am new to taint. This means I look up ability score 25 on spellcasting chart to see bonus spells?
    Yes

    Arh I want to make a comment so bad but it would be speculation.
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

  30. - Top - End - #150
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

    Chairman, any official ruling about how we're determining eligibility for sworn foes?

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSerpent View Post
    I believe I have spotted "unnerved" somewhere else - under the Alternative Frightening rule, page 61. The changes to the Frightened condition it proposes are the same as the penalties of the "unnerved" condition caused by Unnerving Fury.
    YMMV, but since it does not include the word "unnerved" in that section, I'd have a hard time being convinced that they're the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    I agree - some feats are generic enough not to be considered campaign specific, IMHO, even if they appear in FR, Eberron, Ghostwalk, Dragonlance etc.

    Others are very specifically tied to settings, and mix-n-matching these would warrant a deduction if I judge again.
    My concern about cross-setting material as a judge are not whether they're tied to fluff, but whether they were created with each other in mind. Did the writers of Eberron sources make sure what they were writing would balance w/ Forgotten Realms material, for instance? Since it delves into murky RAI possibilities, that's why I usually shy away from cross-setting material when scoring.

    Quote Originally Posted by thethird View Post
    Arh I want to make a comment so bad but it would be speculation.
    Thank you for actually allowing that to stop you. I've shelved at least two ideas in this thread because of speculative posts . Please folks, let's leave some of the intrigue!
    Last edited by OMG PONIES; 2013-10-14 at 12:12 PM.
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