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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
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    Durham
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    Default Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    This is for talking and throwing things about the Runners and the Shadows which they hide under.
    Keep it civil between editions just remember 5th is bad. Now that has been accepted.
    Post ideas for Runs, games not involving Shadowrunners, Characters(and to what edition they belong), also post build etc.

    This is to get those ideas flowing for everyone into Shadowrun
    It is also to help each other with were is that is it here why not there and so on. I.E questions, to enlighten people from the mad dribble that is my insane font.

    Now that we have all the basics of why, now onto some things.

    Suggestions for a Run going to Centralia because Bug Spirits using the Mine Fire to hide.

    -Best way in 4th edition at character creation with 400 points to make a character with, Raptor Cyber Legs who is also an Adept.
    Do Raptor Legs work with Lower Limb Cyber Legs or does it have to be the full leg, same with Ferrari and Hydraulic enhancements to cyber-legs.
    Any ways to reduce Essence Cost at character creation besides the Nanotreatment(which it suggests to not allow), and Alphaware.

    I currently have it at, Essence 4.4, for 18 points
    Adapsin, Cyber-leg Right Alphaware, Cyber-leg Left Alphaware
    If Adapsin has a Alphaware equivalent the Essence will change to 4.44, for 24 points
    If their is some Quality that decreases cyber Essence cost then we can get it even lower, hopefully to the point the Essence cost is under 1.

    I don't see anything saying Lower-Limb Only Cyber-legs will or won't work so I do not know.
    If they will then the cost drops down to 8 points with a end Essence of 5.28.
    And if such a quality exists that lowers Essence costs for Cyber(they have a quality which doubles its effects so one can hope)
    Hopefully I can get this build to work so I can play Kickboxing partially cyber-ninja... Check my most recent dump on Demotivators thread to understand
    Check Out
    Check out my youtube channel just click here and enjoy?

    Spoiler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miscast_Mage View Post
    You're a frickin' ninja below me, too!? You got mad skills, Vknight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arbane View Post
    Rogue vs. Dog. (The new Cat vs. Commoner, only not amusing!)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    You are making the assumption of rational planning. After 37 years of dungeon crawling, I still have zero evidence that the average dungeon was designed by the sane.
    "Sleep is optional, just ask Vknight" Someone I Forget but thanks... I don't

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Kaun's Avatar

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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    We going to try and get another Shadowrun general chat going aye? i wonder if we can get this one to 10 pages with out it slipping into necro territory.

    I have no answer for your question Vk but i do have one of my own. Well more of a thought really.

    I think i'm going back to Pink Mohawks for my next game, mainly because my players are morons when it comes to leg work anyway. The get frustrated easily. The focus on unimportant aspects of the leg work and ignore some of the key factors. They eat up all this game time just fingering there b**s and worrying about all these obscure possible outcomes that nothing ever really gets done. And then after that they end up kicking in the door and shooting up the place anyway.

    Ehh just seems like to much trouble to change them, may as well change the style of game.
    Aside from "have fun", i think the key to GMing is putting your players into situations where they need to make a choice that has no perfect outcome available. They will hate you for it, but they will be back at the table session after session.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Spamalot in the Playground
     
    DigoDragon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    My campaign died early due to... ah, a player dying actually. And others simply disappearing from the grid. I still have all the notes as I hope to restart it with a new group (plus the one surviving player that's still around).

    It takes place in Denver 2072 and I was running a few of the Denver Missions as a warm up. The prior group was together in a campaign I ran in Seattle 2070, just at the start of the "Technomancer Witch Hunts". They rescued an NPC technomancer teen and helped her become a runner in her own right. Was quite fun watching runners corrupt a somewhat innocent wallflower.


    This Denver campaign though, I had a dark idea that our little Techno spent two years resenting the hunts and thus started up a splinter cult off Ex Pacis. Her group were stealing Sim module shipments and secretly adding a hot-sim back door before letting the goods become "found" by the authorities and put back on the market. The back door allowed the technos to release a hot-sim virus that would turn the user into a violent zombie.

    The PCs would pick up clues of this plan from certain missions, and then last run would be to stop the virus' release on the night of the Combat Biker championships (being held in Denver on Feb, 2073). Otherwise... prepare for Denver to become a "Romero Film" The fact that this previous little wallflower NPC is now the BBEG was going to be one awesome twist to hit the players with. Alas, not meant to be.
    Last edited by DigoDragon; 2013-10-10 at 08:18 PM.
    Digo Dragon - Artist
    D&D 5e Homebrew: My Little Pony Races
    Avatar by me - Doc Wagon

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2013

    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    So is it just me, or are the metavariants, changelings, and drakes in the Runner's Companion the worst thing in 4E? I like the lifestyles, qualities, contacts, etc. in the book, but every time I skim over that junk I just have to wonder who thought it was a good idea...

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhynn View Post
    So is it just me, or are the metavariants, changelings, and drakes in the Runner's Companion the worst thing in 4E? I like the lifestyles, qualities, contacts, etc. in the book, but every time I skim over that junk I just have to wonder who thought it was a good idea...
    They make sense to me.
    Metavariants are simply different mythologies displaying themselves onto a common frame rather then making something new. Edit existing rather then creating new makes sense.
    Similar thing with Surge afflicted its like a benevolent version of Vampirism, not wholly negative or positive, that being the case it could be a base breaker but at the same time we already had insect spirits mutating people so why not something else.
    Drakes I got nothing, I'd love to see one in play but yeah.

    They are fair points for both sides but I see them as more good then bad. Also with Surge one can make amphibious elf which is just fun. And I think that what people need in Shadowrun that ability to do the thing which is awesome or maybe silly but it works within the setting logic.

    Like in Eclipse Phase with the ability to play a Uplifted Psychic Gorrila that uses robot bodies and used to be an MMA fighter
    Check Out
    Check out my youtube channel just click here and enjoy?

    Spoiler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miscast_Mage View Post
    You're a frickin' ninja below me, too!? You got mad skills, Vknight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arbane View Post
    Rogue vs. Dog. (The new Cat vs. Commoner, only not amusing!)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    You are making the assumption of rational planning. After 37 years of dungeon crawling, I still have zero evidence that the average dungeon was designed by the sane.
    "Sleep is optional, just ask Vknight" Someone I Forget but thanks... I don't

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Also found all of this, sorry for double post

    This is what I found for answer to my question with some digging
    Spoiler
    Show
    Went online scrounging and found all of this. Need to find the book with Biocompatability, and Type-O-System(The post said they were in Augmentation so I will look their)

    Biocompatability (10 BP): Reduce the Essence cost of either cyberware or bioware by 10 percent (choose one type). Does not apply to genetech. This quality may only be taken once.

    Type O System (30 BP): The character can't accept second-hand bioware; basic bioware is considered delta grade for purposes of interacting with a type O body (1/2 Essence Cost, but nuyen prices remain the same).

    pp. 48-49:
    Cyberware Suites allow you to buy a bunch of cyberware in a bundle, reducing its total Essence Cost. The book has a listing of canned Cyberware Suites; others can be invented, subject to GM approval

    p. 88
    Cellular Repair is an expensive medical treatment that can restore lost Essence. If the Essence loss is caused by 'ware, the 'ware must first be removed.

    p. 90
    Adapsin is a Transgenic gene treatment that reduces the Essence cost of cyberware (not bioware) by 10 percent, if the treatment is applied before the implant. Adapsin is not available at character creation; check with your GM to get approval.


    This is what I reasoned out of it.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Adapsin reduces costs by 10%
    Alpha 20% reduction in cost
    Biocompatability 10% Cyber or Bioware
    Suites since buying two legs with mods can apply that is another 10%

    With all of that
    Full Legs come in at
    .5 Each
    Adapsin comes in at 0.14
    For a Essence cost of 1.14
    And at a cost of 16 points. If the Quality that lets you get gear above availability 12 applies for Betware then if we buy as a suite
    It comes in at .94 Essence. and a cost of 43 points for the qualities and cyber, which doesn't factor in costs to upgrade those legs to be kicking death machines(Upgrade Strength and Agility along with Hydraulics)

    Or if a Gm would be generous because its the only Cyber gear the character has and they are spending 10 points for Biomcompatability getting the Betaware + Cyber Suite would work.

    This is of course going on the assumption that we still need to use the full leg. If we don't then all this could be applied to lower costs to also gain Cyber-eyes or some such thing.

    So the legs can be brought to 1 Essence cost or lower.
    Through either use of qualities or the GM saying its ok.
    We don't need either of those things if you only need Lower Legs for Raptor Legs Mod.

    Also Cyber-limbs give you an extra damage track box.
    So a Cyber-Arm gives you 1
    but so does a Cyber Hand/Cyber Lower-Arm....
    Does this bug anyone else that half a limb gives you one wound box the same as a full limb.

    By the rules you could do this
    Get it as a Suite, Alphaware, and Biocompatability
    Cyber Hand, Cyber Hand, Cyber Foot, Cyber Foot
    0.6 Essence Cost. 8 Points
    And now you have 8 + 4 + Body/2 boxes for the wound track
    So an Orc on the low end has 15 Boxes.
    Check Out
    Check out my youtube channel just click here and enjoy?

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Miscast_Mage View Post
    You're a frickin' ninja below me, too!? You got mad skills, Vknight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arbane View Post
    Rogue vs. Dog. (The new Cat vs. Commoner, only not amusing!)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    You are making the assumption of rational planning. After 37 years of dungeon crawling, I still have zero evidence that the average dungeon was designed by the sane.
    "Sleep is optional, just ask Vknight" Someone I Forget but thanks... I don't

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    After checking that yes Raptor Legs can be gotten on only Lower Legs I have created a character!
    Here is the build for everyone.

    Character Build

    How I Built Yuji
    Spoiler
    Show
    Yuji

    Part I: Metatype
    First I looked over the Metatype options.
    Ork, and Troll both fill the more physical side I'm going with. But the costs of Troll are large and the lowered maxes for a agile fighter don't appeal.
    Ork could work I decide.
    Looking at Elf I don't feel it for this build despite the grace it doesn't provide enough
    Dwarf the lowered speed makes it a no
    Human works perfectly average stats are made up for with the amazing +1 Edge.
    So I decide Human or Ork. The 20 points could hurt me as I already have to spend a bit for the concept to get those legs but it would save me points on Strength/Body later.
    I look over Surge stuff for some ideas. I decide against it for this build.
    The metavariants don't provide enough to be worthwhile for Yuji.

    So after looking over options I decide to make the Baseline Yuji Human. Though Ork also works well
    Points Left(400)

    Part II; Qualities
    This is easy as Yuji is going to be a Martial Arts Raptor Clawed Adept
    Yuji needs certain things for that too work.

    Adept; 5 points
    So we can get all those benefits to boost Martial Arts/Unarmed Combat

    Martial Arts; 5 points
    This one is hard as each style gives its own benefits.
    Capoeria works well for a sweeping kick style
    Karate & Kung Fu works for a martial artist in general
    Muay Thai and the raw power is great and since he relies on that with his legs we take it along with the option to get +2 DV instead of +1 DV

    Biocompatability; 10 points
    -10% off the Essence Cost of Cyberware is great especially if Yuji were to lose a eye or something well running the ability to replace things without major damage to his Adept powers is worth the cost

    At the moment I don't know what Negative Qualities I see on this character so I leave that for later
    Points Left(380)

    Part III; Stats
    Body(1), Agility(1), Reaction(1), Strength(1), Charisma(1), Intuition(1), Logic(1), Willpower(1), Edge(2), Magic(1)
    Hmmm, good base set up.

    First I decide Yuji is more Agile and quick on his feet.
    He has some strength but his real power will be in his super strong Raptor Legs.

    So on the Physical Stats I decide
    Body(3), Agility(4), Reaction(4), Strength(2)
    For 90 points

    On the Mental Side, I go with a quick thinking strong willed individual
    Charisma(3), Intuition(3), Logic(2), Willpower(3)
    For 70 points

    Now on Magic I throw down 30 points
    Bringing it to 4

    So My End Stats for Yuji are
    Body(3), Agility(4), Reaction(4), Strength(2)
    Charisma(3), Intuition(3), Logic(2), Willpower(3)
    Magic(4), Edge(2)
    A good set up I decide. If I really wanted I could increase Edge or Magic again for another 10 points but I leave that for later
    A less Social Yuji could increase his Magic, Agility or Edge. But I like to have a chance of making a social check

    Points Left(190)

    Part IV; Cyberware
    Yeah I'm not doing Skills next I need to first give Yuji his big thing his Raptor Legs then I'll do Skill stuff

    First Yuji got his Cyber Lower-Legs as a Suite so together. I wonder how and decide it probably was an accident that cost him his legs.
    I go for Alphaware legs because one cannot get any better without the Quality(Restricted Gear, which lets one get either a piece of gear above Availability 12 or normally up to the Gm if you could take it), its 5 points that I will probably need

    As Alphaware the Legs cost me $65,000 total credits, or 13 points
    They eat, .54 Essence
    This leaves Yuji with 5.46 Essence, if we wanted to we could give Yuji some Cyber-eyes or some such things.
    But first thing to do is that lowers our Magic(4) to Magic(3), sad times

    Now we mod the Raptor Legs
    Nightgale Feet of Fury, +1 die to Unarmed Kicking Tests(+0 Credits)
    First Custom Limb to get the Agility up to 4(+1500 Credits)
    Increased Capacity 4(+4000 Credits)
    Armor 1 provides some protection(+300 Credits)
    Hydraulic Jacks to boost jumps and fall resistance, we get them at rank 2(+4000 Credits)
    Cyber-Spurs use Unarmed Combat so we grab those(+1800 Credits)
    We Enhance the Cyberlimbs Strength by 3(+750 Credits)
    We Enhance the Cyberlimbs Agility by 4(+1000 Credits)
    The end cost for all these is
    13,350 Credits
    So the Cyber Limbs with all mods included cost us
    16points, and we have 1650 Credits left over

    The stats for Yuji's legs are
    Body(3), Agility(8), Strength(8), Armor(+1/+1)
    +1dice Unarmed Combat Skill Checks
    +2dice Gymnastics Skill Checks
    +2dice Jumping Skill Checks
    +2 For determining Agility on Jump checks
    +20% the distance he travels on jump checks
    His movement is also, Walking(15 meters), Running(37.5 meters)

    Points Left(174)

    Part V; Skills
    Well we keep saying Yuji is a Martial Artist and Muay Thai fighter
    If you have a kind Gm he may let you customize/make custom skill groups. As its a group of similar skills. My personal example be 'Extreme Sports', which includes Diving, Parachuting, Pilot: Ground Craft, Pilot: Aircraft
    We will go under the assumption you Gm is not. If he does see about something like Street Brawler(Unarmed Combat, Gymnastics, Running, Pistols) focused on using the terrain and light weaponry to win a fight

    So we give him
    Skill: Unarmed(5), Specialization +2 Muay Thai
    Skill: Pistols(3)
    Skill Group: Athletics(3)
    Skill: Con(3)
    Skill: Etiquette(2)
    Skill Group: Stealth(3)
    This Costs Yuji, 114points. It also gives great coverage for a street punk whose probably not interested in magic/may not have realized he has Adept powers and just thinks he's awesome

    Points Left(60)

    Part VI; Adept Powers
    With Spurs we already having lethal damage on Yuji's kicks.
    So we don't Killing Hands because Yuji is a kicker, and knows it
    Cloak would work well for being stealthy, but will eat into our limited pool.
    IF one really wanted to they could pick up Distance Strike to give Yuji kicks that hit from 3 meters away(or 4 if you count the point lost from lower Essence). For our Yuji I decide against it
    I decide for
    Penetrating Strike Level 1(0.25)
    Critical Strike Level 1(0.25)
    Smashing Blow(1.0)
    Improved Reflexes Level 1(1.5)
    Now for the person building Yuji comes the really hard part, do they upgrade his mobility now? Or does the person instead upgrade the power of his Unarmed Strikes? Or does the person leave things as they are?

    I went with more Speed so I bought Magic up to 4.
    And applied the following changes
    Critical Strike Level 2(0.5)
    Smashing Blow(1.0)
    Improved Reflexes Level 2(2.5)
    One more level of Reflexes makes Yuji even faster and lets him throw up to 3 kicks. Along with Critical Strike boosting damage works nicely with the Smashing Blow power which doubles the kicks damage against objects.
    This makes Yuji a terror dealing; 2 * (9 + Hits on Unarmed Attack) against objects. If you don't care about kicking down doors one could instead grab Improved Ability at Level 2 to increase his Unarmed Die pool, or Killing Hands+Elemental Strikes. Or anything they felt would go with their idea of Yuji.

    Points Left(50)

    Part VII; Lifestyle & Gear
    Remember that 1650 Credits we had left over? I did!
    We have spent already 16/50 of the points that can be spent on gear

    Yuji Lives a Middle Class Lifestyle, I decide and he's got it for 5 more months

    I decide for two guns. A light pistol and a heavy pistol should things go really bad. A Shock Glove for melee is also a good idea
    Colt America L36(Comes with no Mods)
    Colt Manhunter(Comes with Laser Sight)
    Shock Glove(Its melee)
    Credits Left(1000)

    Colt America L36 mods
    -Silencer, Quick-Draw+Concealable Holster
    Credits Left(625)

    Colt Manhunter
    -Silencer, Quick-Draw+Concealable Holster, Periscope
    Credits Left(200)

    Spare Clips; I grab 6 of these 3 for each gun.
    Credits Left(170)

    Now I spend another point to get 5000 credits. Yuji is focused on being subtle so his mods and ammo concerns show that with some greater firepower if needed
    Subsonic Rounds; 200
    Regular Ammo; 200
    Ex-Explosive; 50
    Credits Left(3470)

    Now on Armor its easy to know what Yuji will have.
    Leather Jacket; The coat can be worn over the clothes and looks normal
    Actioneer Business Clothes; This lets Yuji go high class without losing protection and can be worn other other things
    Lined Coat; Heavy duty protection more for concealing identity
    Urban Explorer Jumpsuit; Good for when doing recon work
    I decide against mods on his armor. Though Nonconductivity could always be applied to greater protection from electrical attacks
    Credits Left(570)

    For his Commlink and Operating system I went with simple but cheap
    -Also spent another point for another 5000 Credits
    Hermes Ikon for the Commlink
    Novatech Navi for the Operating System
    I also buy, Biometric Reader, Nanopaste Trodes, Skinlink, and normal Trodes
    For general uses. Pro User(Analyze[4], Browse[4], Command[2], Edit[4])
    Credits Left(70)

    I spend 2 points here, for 10,000 more Credits
    I buy the Suzuki Mirage Racing Bike
    Handling +2
    Acceleration 20/50, Speed 200
    Pilot 1, Body 6, Armor 4, Sensor 1
    Credits Left(3570)
    Now looking at things I decide to modify my bike
    First up I upgrade the Pilot to 3
    Improve with Motion Sensor
    And Smart Tires for a +1 Handling sure the Bike is slower but its drives like a dream and later on we could grab an improved engine for Acceleration and/Speed
    Credits Left(1020)

    Now the utilities of life, and I spend another 1 point here
    Auto-picker Rating(4); x1
    Metal Restraints; x5
    Miniwelder; x2
    Glue Sprayer; x2
    Wireclippers; x2
    Flashlights; x4
    Gas Mask; x2
    Gecko Tape Gloves; x2
    Climbing Gear; x1
    Light Stick; x21
    Grapple Gun; x1
    Stealth Rope; 300 meters
    Catalyst Stick; x3
    Biomonitor; x1
    GPS; x2
    Hazmat Suit; x1
    Respirator Rating[5]; x2
    Micro Flare Launcher; x2
    Micro Flares; x12
    Credits Left(0)

    I decide against a DocWagon Contract(Though for 5 points a gold one is worth it)

    I spend 3 more points here
    Fake SIN's
    Rating: 4
    Rating: 3
    Credits Left(3000)

    Fake Licenses(Only bought things that made sense you would need a license for, a Gas Mask in the future along with extreme sports gear does not grab me as monitored)
    Grapple Gun Rating(3)
    Hazmat Suit Rating(4)
    Autopicker Rating(4)
    Cyber-Legs(4)
    Cyber-Spurs(4)
    Miniwelder(3)
    Light Pistol(4)
    Colt Manhunter(4)
    Credits Left(0)
    And we are down Yuji has equipment and now needs friends
    Points Left(38)

    Part VIII; Friends In High Places
    First up Yuji needs a friend in the Underworld
    Garry(Hacker), Loyalty(3), Connection(3)

    A Friends on the Force
    Luthor(Loanstar or Similar depending on City), Loyalty(4), Connection(2)

    The guy he does not fully trust but is useful
    Baxter(Local Ganger), Loyalty(2), Connection(2)

    An old friend
    Sol(Corporate Head Hunter and Old Sparring Partner), Loyalty(3), Connection(3)

    Finally we grab him a Fixer
    Grin(Fixer), Loyalty(4), Connection(4)

    Now if one wants they could go around and give each Contact a quote to sum them up.
    Here are mine for these guys
    Garry; "We never meet, doesn't mean I won't help a friend out."
    Luthor; "Good men, on both sides of the law."
    Bazter; "HEY $&!! #@*3 come get some!"
    Sol; "Always remember from were you come."
    Grin; "My runners are not just Nuyen their lives."

    Points Left(8)

    Part IX; The Last Point Shuffle
    Well with those last floating points
    I buy up Pistols and Con to 4.
    Points Lefts(0)

    But wait we don't have any flaws on Yuji!
    Looking at things, many don't make sense.
    Though I find one I like

    Records on File(Ares)
    and use those points to Boost Stealth to 4
    Points Left(0)


    The Actual Build
    Spoiler
    Show
    Yuji, 'Raptor Adept'
    Metatype[Human], Ethnicity[Japanese/English]
    Age[20-22], Sex[Male or Female], Height[5'6], Weight[?]

    Body[3], Agility[4], Reaction[4], Strength[2],
    Charisma[3], Intuition[3], Logic[2], Willpower[3]
    Magic[4 From Essence Loss], Edge[2]
    Essence[5.46]

    Initiative[9], Initiative Passes[3]

    Skill Groups
    Atheltics[3], Stealth[4]

    Active Skills
    Con[4], Etiquette[2], Pistols[4], Unarmed Combat[5; +2 Muay Thai]

    Qualities
    Bio-compatibility; -10% Essence Cost for Cyberware
    Adept; Can gain Adept powers and Magic stat
    Martial Arts; Muay Thai +2DV of Unarmed Attacks
    Record On File[Ares]; Ares has Yuji's life from 1 to around 17 area

    Adept Powers
    Improved Reflexes Level 2
    Critical Strike Level 2
    Smash Blow

    Gear
    Primary Lifestyle; Medium
    Nuyen[3d6*50]
    Fake SINs
    Name[?], Rating: 4
    Name[?], Rating: 3

    Fake Licenses
    Grapple Gun Rating(3), Hazmat Suit Rating(4), Autopicker Rating(4), Cyber-Legs(4), Cyber-Spurs(4), Miniwelder(3), Light Pistol(4), Colt Manhunter(4)

    Weapons
    Colt America L36; Silencer, Quick Draw+Concealable Holster
    Colt Manhunter; Silencer, Periscope, Quick Draw+Concealable Holster
    Shock Glove
    Cyber-Spurs; Mounted in Raptor Legs
    Subsonic Rounds[x200], Regular Rounds[x200], Ex-Explosive Rounds[x50]

    Armor
    Leather Jacket; Ballistic 2/Impact 2, or +2/+2 to armor worn under it
    Auctioneer Business Clothes; Ballistic 5/Impact 3
    Lined Coat; Ballistic 6/Impact 4
    Urban Explorer Jumpsuit; Ballistic 6/Impact 6

    Augmentations
    Raptor Cyber-Legs Lower
    Body(3), Agility(8), Strength(8), Armor(+1/+1)
    +1dice Unarmed Combat Skill Checks
    +2dice Gymnastics Skill Checks, and Jumping Skill Checks
    +2 For determining Agility on Jump checks
    +20% the distance he travels on jump checks
    His movement is also, Walking(15 meters), Running(37.5 meters)

    General Purpose
    Spoiler
    Show
    Auto-picker Rating(4); x1
    Metal Restraints; x5
    Miniwelder; x2
    Glue Sprayer; x2
    Wireclippers; x2
    Flashlights; x4
    Gas Mask; x2
    Gecko Tape Gloves; x2
    Climbing Gear; x1
    Light Stick; x21
    Grapple Gun; x1
    Stealth Rope; 300 meters
    Catalyst Stick; x3
    Biomonitor; x1
    GPS; x2
    Hazmat Suit; x1
    Respirator Rating[5]; x2
    Micro Flare Launcher; x2
    Micro Flares; x12


    Vehicle
    Suzuki Mirage Racing Bike
    Handling +3
    Acceleration 16/40, Speed 160
    Pilot 3,
    Body 6, Armor 4, Sensor 1
    Mods: Smart Tires, Motion Sensor

    Commlink
    Commlink[Hermes Ikon], Operational System[Novatech Navi]
    Response[3], Signal[3]
    System[4], Firewall[3]
    Pro User(Analyze[4], Browse[4], Command[2], Edit[4])
    Trodes, Nanopaste Trodes, Biometric Reader, Skinlink

    Contacts
    Garry(Hacker), Loyalty(3), Connection(3)
    Luthor(Loanstar or Similar depending on City), Loyalty(4), Connection(2)
    Baxter(Local Ganger), Loyalty(2), Connection(2)
    Sol(Corporate Head Hunter & Old Sparring Partner), Loyalty(3), Connection(3)
    Grin(Fixer), Loyalty(4), Connection(4)

    I didn't give him any Knowledge skills and leave that for the individual playing him to decide. Though I'd go with Sports, Fine Cuisine, and other things that mix the Street + Upper Class life

    Some Dice Pools
    Muay Thai Kicks; 16 dice, Damage(11 + Hits)*2 vs. objects, AP(-)
    Other Muay Thai; 11 dice
    Pistols; 8 dice
    General Athletics; 5/7 dice without Raptor Legs, 11 dice with Raptor Legs
    Jumping; 17 dice
    Gymnatics; 13 dice
    Stealth; Involving Intuition 7 dice. Involving Agility without Raptor Legs 8 dice. Involving Agility with Raptor Legs 12 dice
    Con; 6 dice, Etiquette; 5 dice


    The Backstory I Gave Yuji
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    Yuji was raised by his parents who were Ares employees.
    Taught Martial Arts along with a few other skills. When he turned 16 his legs were lost thanks to an explosion from some gun happy Shadowrunners.
    Ares loaned his parents the money to fund his replacement Cyber-Legs.
    Yuji pulled his own money and got them upgraded to Raptor Legs, secretly.
    Over the next 4(to 6) years he did his own thing slowly becoming a Shadowrunner, with a mind for efficiency not pretty lights.
    Ares has most of Yuji's training, skills, that he has cyber-limbs, and are aware he's an Adept(despite not being aware himself)
    Yuji lives in his own apartment away from his parents.
    He grew up under a pair of military scientist and was trained to fight. He also spent some time on the streets and fighting/becoming a Runner.
    Those years he met his contacts, or firmly established the relationship he has with each of them

    -
    From this backstory you could also give Yuji SINner flaw
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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhynn View Post
    So is it just me, or are the metavariants, changelings, and drakes in the Runner's Companion the worst thing in 4E?
    The metavariants are okay, but no one from my former group ever used them. It helped with statting out some infected NPCs at least. I love the changelings and have made two characters with Surge (oddly, a Techno and a shaman). As someone else mentioned, you could make an aquatic type character which can be interesting.

    Never used the drakes template. Might be cool for a boss NPC, but eh. Never got around to an idea.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    For me, the thing about metavariants is you'd almost never see them unless you were in their home range. They're there for color; making a runner of one of them is uncommon, simply because they're such a small part of the population and may be an even smaller part of the runner population except in their home range.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    For me, the thing about metavariants is you'd almost never see them unless you were in their home range. They're there for color; making a runner of one of them is uncommon, simply because they're such a small part of the population and may be an even smaller part of the runner population except in their home range.
    I can't get over the fact that they're just ramming in 50% D&D critters and 50% every humanoid from any mythology into Shadowrun, and that they plain don't fit; they come from nowhere and are never mentioned or used anywhere else, as far as I know. It's dreadful. (Also "zomg u can b a dragon so cool".)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhynn View Post
    I can't get over the fact that they're just ramming in 50% D&D critters and 50% every humanoid from any mythology into Shadowrun, and that they plain don't fit; they come from nowhere and are never mentioned or used anywhere else, as far as I know. It's dreadful. (Also "zomg u can b a dragon so cool".)
    Drakes are another matter altogether, but they have been mentioned in the lore, especially if you include Earthdawn. They weren't prominent in SR, however.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhynn View Post
    I can't get over the fact that they're just ramming in 50% D&D critters and 50% every humanoid from any mythology into Shadowrun, and that they plain don't fit;
    They're easy enough to ignore if you don't want them. I've never had centaurs, drakes, faeries, etc. in my games and my players never really care to venture much outside the core races for their characters.

    As far as critters that eat shadowrunners, I've preferred to pull stuff from more modern mythology, like the Chupacabra, Jersey Devil, Goat Men, Men in Black, Hollow Earth, etc. I think it fits nicely with SR's urban setting.
    Last edited by DigoDragon; 2013-10-14 at 08:03 AM.
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    So all the Shadowrun going on (SR5 coming out and playing Shadowrun Returns) got me to dig out my old SR2 books a few days ago, and I was reading The Grimoire on insect spirits and toxic shamans... comparing the rules to the SR4 rules in Street Magic, I must say I think the loss of Threat Ratings was a big one.

    Basically, in SR2, a toxic shaman or insect shaman performs various tasks to increase his Threat Rating, which makes the shaman or its spirit more powerful. An insect shaman, specifically, can summon and control a number of insect spirits based on his Threat Ratin and Magic (up to 10 x Threat Rating individual spirits with total combined Force Ratings of equal to Magic + 5 x Threat Rating; and no, those numbers don't add up!), flesh-forms not included. Once a Queen is summoned, every time the shaman's Threat Rating increases, the Queen's Spirit Energy (a Free Spirit thing; Spirit Energy is added to Force for all purposes, basically) increases, and the Queen can use Spirit Energy to increase the shaman's Threat Rating, or use the shaman's Threat Rating to increase her Spirit Energy. (So long as the Queen does not break free, the shaman's Threat Rating determines the size of the hive, as far as I can tell, so increasing the TR may be smarter than increasing SE.)

    What this means is that while fighting a hive directly is pretty much suicide for most runners, they can make the hive smaller by thwarting the shaman's designs. (Of course, if there's a Queen, every time the shaman loses Threat Rating the Queen has a chance to break free and take control; however, a hive without a shaman has, by the book, a maximum size of 0 insect spirits...) This is very suggestive of fun play to me: an adventure where the PCs have to try to thwart multiple goals or plays by an insect shaman, and depending on their success, their final fight is organically harder or easier (and the dynamics of the hive may change enormously depending on whether the Queen has broken free or not).

    As a side note, it's interesting to compare the conceptions of insect spirits between SR2 and SR4: in SR2, they're very much presented as actual insect spirits, summoned by shamans who follow an insect totem; while SR4 presents the resemblance to insects as more coincidental and the spirits as having little legitimate connection to Earth's plane/sphere.

    Also, it seems, from reading Street Magic, that SR4 has completely dropped the idea of toxic Avenger (... running the shadows in Tromaville?) shamans. SR2 presents two types: Poisoners and Avengers, but SR4 just seems to present four variations of Poisoners. I prefer the old approach, I think: Avengers (stated to be the most common kind) are actually trying to avenge the corrupted Earth, but they care just as little for metahumanity as Poisoners, and will kill and destroy everyone to achieve their goal of avenging (more than protecting) nature. I vastly prefer the idea of eco-terrorist toxic shamans, whose goals are essentially understandable but still totally hostile to metahumanity in general, over the idea of cartoonish Captain Planet villains.

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    I helped write Street Magic so maybe I can chime in a bit here. As I recall, the idea of getting rid of Threat Ratings was in part because TR were always unnecessary add-on mechanics, and (believe it or not) we were trying to simplify and consolidate the rules rather than mechanically copy-and-paste material from earlier editions (literally, there were chunks of Grimoire for 1st edition that were copypasta'd directly into Grimoire II and Magic in the Shadows). Toxic threats already have abilities PCs don't in the form of Sacrificing metamagic, insect spirits, etc., giving them an extra screw-you-I'm-the-bad-guy mechanic is just an overcomplication - especially if we ever planned to open up those abilities as PC options in some later book, which was talked about a little bit.

    Re: Insect spirits in general, there was always a slight Lovecraftian vibe to the whole insect shaman experience, with the alien mindset warping the magician's mind and morality and the body horror of investing, and so the idea that insect spirits came from somewhere else in the metaplanes wasn't too far of a stretch, and opened up some interesting possibilities. We didn't get to do quite as much with it as I would have liked, but them's the breaks.

    Re: Avengers, I don't recall quite as much discussion about them other than "Okay, so they're pissed-off eco-magicians. So what?" They fell under the "toxic shaman" label in SR2 because they were bad guys, but mechanically they weren't any different from the Captain Pollution types, and starting in the end of SR2 and during most of SR3 Shadowrun was really going away from the Shaman/Mage dichotomy thing, which is why SR4 went out of its way to try and present threat/corrupted magician options applicable to multiple traditions.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Yeah, I very much noticed the de-emphasis in the difference between mages and shamans.
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    Awesome! I generally love Street Magic - especially the Awakened versions of real-world magical traditions. That stuff is awesome.

    And I agree it's definitely a mechanical streamlining, and I understand it, but it also seems to be a major move towards more "modern" story-based systems where more things rely on the GM adjudicating everything. I like Threat Ratings because they're more sandbox-style - a mechanic that lets PCs engage the insect shaman or toxic shaman indirectly, without the GM ad-hocing things. I'll also agree that they're confusingly presented in The Grimoire, for insect spirits (they're very simple for toxic shamans; add the shaman's Threat Rating to the toxic free spirit's Force). For instance, I don't have any idea, from reading the relevant pages in The Grimoire, whether a Queen even can maintain a hive without a shaman. But I really find I like the idea of having mechanics (or even guidelines) that tell me how fast a hive grows, because that seems like it would be a major concern in any adventure involving a hive. "As fast as you need it to" is a dull answer for me, an OSR lover of random tables and content-generating mechanics...

    The SR2 insect spirits are definitely sort of Lovecrafty ("though all insect spirits need not be evil, they are most certainly alien beings"; "The typical astral quest of an insect shaman would probably drive another magician insane"; "the alien nature of the totem will inevitably take over"...). I think the "semantic drift" (or whatever you want to call it) in the nature of the insect spirits makes sense.

    Incidentally, did the blanket immunity to normal weapons come in in SR3, or was it added in SR4's Street Magic? In SR2, only the queens are immune to normal weapons.


    Another topic of random interest: in SR2, Priority A for Attributes gives a human an average of 5 in each attribute. (There are 6 attributes.) In SR4's Priority System from the Runner's Companion, Priority A gives you an average of 3.5 in each. In SR5, Priority A gives you an average of 4 in each. Lower priorities follow suit; and in SR2, each other priority gives more of whatever you're getting (Priority A is 1,000,000 nuyen, or 40 skill points in a game with probably 1/2 or 1/3 the number of skills needed for each character type). SR5 characters would have to be created with 500-600 points in SR4. Basically, there's major fluctuation in the power of starting PCs in each edition. Fun trivia and somewhat interesting, I think...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhynn View Post
    And I agree it's definitely a mechanical streamlining, and I understand it, but it also seems to be a major move towards more "modern" story-based systems where more things rely on the GM adjudicating everything. I like Threat Ratings because they're more sandbox-style - a mechanic that lets PCs engage the insect shaman or toxic shaman indirectly, without the GM ad-hocing things.
    You and I have different definitions of sandbox, then. It's not like the PCs have a Threat Rating app on their commlink that tells them the magical Threat has been foiled, at the table it's an invisible, GM-only mechanic which just represents some extra bookkeeping ("Hmm...they did stop Papa Roach from getting his cronut, I suppose that deserves a tick down on the Threat Rating.") and an arbitrary fistful of screw-you dice towards the PCs. At best you can argue that it's kinda-sortof a guideline to the power level of the threat - but if that's the case, why not reflect that in their stats instead of making up another attribute? Why not use the professional rating?

    Incidentally, did the blanket immunity to normal weapons come in in SR3, or was it added in SR4's Street Magic? In SR2, only the queens are immune to normal weapons.
    I'm pretty sure it was standardized in SR3, at least for manifest spirits. Flesh-forms were always a bit wonky when it came to stats.

    Another topic of random interest: in SR2, Priority A for Attributes gives a human an average of 5 in each attribute. (There are 6 attributes.) In SR4's Priority System from the Runner's Companion, Priority A gives you an average of 3.5 in each. In SR5, Priority A gives you an average of 4 in each. Lower priorities follow suit; and in SR2, each other priority gives more of whatever you're getting (Priority A is 1,000,000 nuyen, or 40 skill points in a game with probably 1/2 or 1/3 the number of skills needed for each character type). SR5 characters would have to be created with 500-600 points in SR4. Basically, there's major fluctuation in the power of starting PCs in each edition. Fun trivia and somewhat interesting, I think...
    Priority system from Runner's Companion on was not balanced against point-buy, it's part of the reason why I wrote up PACKS originally. I don't think you can directly compare characters from SR5 to previous editions - they changed a lot, some of it fairly arbitrarily.
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    I would like to get some peoples thoughts on how to push the Dystopian setting themes.

    I always find it hard to get that side of the setting across well to my players. They look at themselves as highly trained specialists, which to a point, is a true statement. But when ever it comes to mission payments they are always confused by the meager payments offered by Mr Johnson.

    The old risk vs reward argument inevitably starts up and after giving it some thought i think the problem is about conveying Dystopian aspect of the setting properly.

    The stealing cars over doing runs argument is a common one and i am trying to counter it will while keeping the setting themes in mind.

    I have been trying to map it out well in my head and so far my thinking is;

    > 30% of the population is struggling to get enough money to feed themselves. They are likely SINless, homeless coupled with all manor of other issues. Drug addictions, medical issues and so on.

    > 40% of the population are wage slaves who work themselves into the grave in low end jobs and are still struggling to make enough to cover rent and feed their families. They spend their lives hoping to get a promotion that nets them a few extra corp benefits. They have few bucks to spare and the idea of been found in the possession of a stolen vehicle and loosing their job, no matter how ****ty it is, terrifies them.

    > 20% are in the middle to upper middle class. These are no doubt skilled professionals or valued employees. Life is pretty good, defiantly better then most people out there. They get some decent corp benefits, a nice enough apartment, they eat well. But they would always have that niggling fear in the back of their minds about a corporate downsizing, budget cuts, a bad quarterly review or a mistake at work. Any of these could cause them to loose their jobs and have their comfortable life that they have gotten used to evaporate almost over night. This group might have the extra cash to afford the stolen cars but would they be willing to take the risk in buying them?

    >5% are the upper elites. High enough on the corporate mountain to see the summit but still a long way from the top. These guys are movers and shakers, they have nice everything. Houses, cars and so on, generally all provided by the corp in their pay package. These guys are more likely to be the targets of your car thief's rather the potential buyers, yes there will be exceptions to this. These people got to where they are through all manor of devious means and are probably willing to hire runners to acquire themselves a specific car, but generally speaking, legally acquiring high value cars is well within their means.

    >1% are right up the top. They are targets for theft rather then buyers. They may occasionally want to purchase a stolen vehicle which can't be acquired through other means but these occurrences would be few and very specific.

    >4% are other. Expectations to the rule. Here you will find other runners, the criminal elite and other random and less common elements. Here you actually may find a decent customer base, but are they willing to pay top dollar for the stolen vehicles?

    The hole in the stealing cars theory should be a lack of demand. The people who would want the cars generally don't have the creds and those that have the creds generally don't want the cars.

    I think my problem really comes down to, getting the realities of how bad life is for those people living in the lower 70%. Getting my players to understand that the lion share of the population are broke and scarred for most of there life.

    Anyway, pick this apart, i'm always interested to hear peoples thoughts... and also if you have any ideas on pushing the Dystopian aspects of the setting i would be keen to hear them.
    Last edited by Kaun; 2013-10-15 at 08:15 PM.
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    I think the big holes in the "stealing cars" idea are that 1. it's really easy to track stolen cars (or really easy to notice a car has its wireless off) and 2. you don't get to sell the car for even half its value even if you do have a regular pipeline for stolen cars, you get maybe 5-10% because you're the street-level guy; just like the dude actually pushing the drugs isn't making the big nuyens, it's the guys who run the distribution and international trade who get rich. Frankly, I think stealing cars is a fine line of work for most runners, but it's not going to pay well.

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    The rules, IMO, support this pretty decently: let's use SR5's as an example. You've boosted a Saeder-Krupp-Bentley Concordat, worth 65,000, taking a pretty damn big risk of getting caught. To find a buyer, you've got to make an Extended Etiquette + Charisma [Social] (10) Test with an interval of 1 week, so we're probably talking a month to find a buyer. (It's the same interval and test for anything between 10,001 and 100,000 so you might as well go for the Concordat.) That means you're paying for a month of your lifestyle while waiting for the buyer. You get, on average, 16,250 for that Concordat (well, probably less, since the buyers are probably better at negotiating prices than you are). Glitches on either test mean bad stuff. For a team of five, that's 3,250 each, which covers a low lifestyle and leaves you some spending money (unless you're a troll). And this is all if the GM doesn't think that selling a boosted car is slightly more complex than usual, which is frankly reasonable. And the local organized crime and law enforcement are both going to get interested in your business.

    The SR5 rules actually support the "5-10% of the car's value," too - if you've got a pipeline, it's a Contact, who'll give you 5% per 1 Loyalty Rating, so a "just biz" or "regular" pipeline (the default, you can assume) is going to pay that. So if you're boosting cars as a main source of income, you're probably making 5-10% on each, to cover your expenses and lifestyle.


    Anyway, I think your percentages may actually be optimistic (unless you got them out of one of the books, I guess); the middle class would IMO be much smaller (5% - 10%), the elite would be much smaller (say 1%; that's still seven-figure numbers of these elites in the US alone, which sounds like a lot to me), and the amount of SINless people would be larger. But the basic idea is absolutely right.

    Generally, conveying the dystopia is a matter of description. It really makes the setting: playing Shadowrun Returns, I found the actual gameplay to be decent, but the dialogue is what makes it. It's noir sci-fi.

    So take the time to describe daily life and their surroundings to the players, life in the Barrens and the Sprawl, etc. People living hand-to-mouth, the urban decay, the corrugated metal and plastic sheets that serve as shelter and housing to many, the squats, the flophouses, the apartment-building sized drug/BTL lairs... or, for the corporate wageslaves, the existential desperation of being trapped in the ultimate hamster wheel, the mind-numbing sterility, the constant observation, oppression, and indoctrination (read Brave New World and 1984 and take about half of each for the corporate idyl). In general, emphasize the relentless observation and control exercised by corporations and governments - it's so incredibly easy to keep track of people, and anyone who tries not to be kept track of (like runners) will be harassed, badly. Maybe insert advertising to hammer home that consumerist aspect.

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    Stealing cars in Shadowrun has always been a bit needlessly complicated; the more usual "why am I shadowrunning again?" question (especially in SR1-3) usually centered making orichalcum, which has a much higher rate of return and is completely legal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Yeah, I very much noticed the de-emphasis in the difference between mages and shamans.
    Yeah, it's pretty much down to flavor, though my players usually picked Shamans for the linked attributes (They liked Intuition). No one really complained about it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kaun View Post
    I would like to get some peoples thoughts on how to push the Dystopian setting themes.
    My players generally have the mindset of playing the hero, whether it's the "all-american" type, the "antihero", or the sub sandwich (because some like playing the weirdo). So the way I try to push the Dystopian setting is to show that the PCs are the only ones who potentially care about anything other than themselves.

    Half the cops are corrupt and don't bother with following procedures to the letter. No one sticks their neck out to help anyone, and if a kid gets gunned down in the streets? The first reaction of bystandards is to throw some cardboard over the body and walk away. I detail things like pollution and acid rain and make the world feel very... bleak (Watching Blade Runner used to be something of a tradition with my group prior to starting any Shadowrun campaign).

    Low payouts are usually explained that Johnsons can readily find low lifes to do the jobs they need done. Runners are an expendable commodity and this often leads the PCs to murder any competition that gets in their way. Ironically, opposing runners kill more PCs than any security force, drone detail, or gang.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    Low payouts are usually explained that Johnsons can readily find low lifes to do the jobs they need done. Runners are an expendable commodity and this often leads the PCs to murder any competition that gets in their way. Ironically, opposing runners kill more PCs than any security force, drone detail, or gang.
    This is excellent and correct, IMO. While different people will have different approaches, I think that in the setting by-the-book, shadowrunners are not consummate professionals chosen for their ability to pull the job off without a hitch. Teams like that exist, but they are tied to the megacorps. Shadowrunners are dirtbags chosen not for their skill, but for their expendability. While you usually (not always!*) want a group that will pull off its objective, you're more concerned with deniability. You wouldn't use shadowrunners for jobs that absolutely must go off without a hitch; you'd use them for jobs where you don't mind if they fail and cause a lot of destruction, where that may even be a sort of secondary objective. They didn't extract the scientist, but they shot up the lab? Good enough!

    I also think that the whole "this won't even cover our expenses" thinking is backwards. Clearly your expenses are too high, then. You're in a field where there's always some scumbag eager to take any money offered. If you can't do it cheap, you're not what they were looking for. And if you don't build a rep doing the cheap jobs, you'll never get that big score. (Which, of course, will inevitably go wrong...)

    Again drawing on Shadowrun Returns: one of the characters is a Shadowrunner who works as a bartender. That's the sort of people the game is about: dangerous, desperate people, cast outside of mainstream society by circumstance and raised above the masses by their abilities or willingness to do anything, trying to make ends meet. (And sometimes, they get tangled up in something way bigger than themselves: see Strange Days, Children of Men, Babylon AD...)

    * IMO an essential element in cyberpunk games is that your employer just might be running an operation where your success is irrelevant, or your failure is expected...

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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    Yeah, it's pretty much down to flavor, though my players usually picked Shamans for the linked attributes (They liked Intuition). No one really complained about it.
    That's part of why I tend to create traditions; I want to arrange the attributes like I want to arrange them, and want to summon the spirits I want to summon. And I'm a sucker for a high Int.

    I also noticed that the emphasis on domains for spirits seemed lower.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Derie View Post
    Stealing cars in Shadowrun has always been a bit needlessly complicated; the more usual "why am I shadowrunning again?" question (especially in SR1-3) usually centered making orichalcum, which has a much higher rate of return and is completely legal.
    Yeah, I typically view boosting cars and bikes as "gang work", rather than "runner work", a fine line in and of itself. It's the kind of thing that you make your business because you don't have the skillset for deniable covert ops work.

    I think part of it is the change in focus of Shadowrun... not so much the "pink mohawk v. mirrorshades" dichotomy that's talked about, but the "neo-anarchists v. deniable assets" dichotomy. The early material (1e) had a lot of neo-anarchist revolutionary vibe... you're the little guy, fighting against the megacorps. The newer material tends to be less of that and far more "you are professional deniable assets."

    I kind of link it to the decrease in Shadowtalk in the sourcebooks... I can't help but compare Street Magic to Awakenings, or Man and Machine to Cybertechnology... the early parts of the book laying out how things worked, the gear catalogs discussing what's good and what's crap, and a thin section in the books related to the specific rules.

    EDIT: In further news, get off my lawn, you damn kids.
    Last edited by Mark Hall; 2013-10-16 at 12:24 PM.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    My players generally have the mindset of playing the hero, whether it's the "all-american" type, the "antihero", or the sub sandwich (because some like playing the weirdo). So the way I try to push the Dystopian setting is to show that the PCs are the only ones who potentially care about anything other than themselves.
    Just because the setting might be dystopian, doesn't mean that the player characters have to be a bunch of horrible people; you can have a very meaningful and fun game if you have the players as a group of rather altruistic people who are more like modern Robin Hoods and try to protect their neighbourhood or go after a particularly vile opponent, like insect spirits or groups like Tamanous. Well, especially in a rather unpleasant setting, you can actually make the fact that the professional criminals are about the most altruistic and helpful people around a meaningful part of the grimness of the setting.
    I remember a game waaay back in second edition where we played a gang/initiation group of Ki-Adepts and urban shamans who tried to keep their little part of the barrens from turning (too) toxic. They never had much money, but they were pretty decent people (as long as you didn't threat their turf or the people who lived there).
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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhynn View Post
    I also think that the whole "this won't even cover our expenses" thinking is backwards. Clearly your expenses are too high, then.
    I think the only runner that might have a legit claim to that statement is the team rigger after the party gets his van shot to hell. Then again, I suppose that's where boosting cars comes in.

    The most amusing boosting incident I've seen was when the team stole a fire hydrant and bolted it to the sidewalk next to the fancy car of their target hit. So then they boosted a tow truck and towed the car away. The hacker left a forged parking ticket for their target with an address to pick up the car.

    Poor target walked right into that trap.
    Team got a free fancy car out of the job and disassembled it to sell the parts. So that's one way to make a little extra money.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    EDIT: In further news, get off my lawn, you damn kids.
    That sounds like a "little guy fighting against the megacorps" kind of thing to me. I do like to play my games that way. A team of mistifts trying to stick it to 'The Corp Man' as it were.


    Quote Originally Posted by Black Jester View Post
    Just because the setting might be dystopian, doesn't mean that the player characters have to be a bunch of horrible people;
    I quite agree. Its just my players like being the altruistic heroes. I've been in other groups where everyone was a cut-throat jerk and the job still gets done. Every group has a different style. Personally, I like playing the altruistic type too.
    Last edited by DigoDragon; 2013-10-17 at 08:47 AM.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    That sounds like a "little guy fighting against the megacorps" kind of thing to me. I do like to play my games that way. A team of mistifts trying to stick it to 'The Corp Man' as it were.
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    I quite agree. Its just my players like being the altruistic heroes. I've been in other groups where everyone was a cut-throat jerk and the job still gets done. Every group has a different style. Personally, I like playing the altruistic type too.
    I find the real problem comes when you've got a mix. When some people are, if not altruistic, at least not out to actively screw people over... then you've got one or two guys whose sole purpose is to mess with other people.

    Everyone uses non-lethal weapons? He uses a coup de gras. You try to keep the security guard out of trouble? He buys them tickets out of the country and manufactures evidence that his wife was cheating.

    No, not kidding about that.
    Last edited by Mark Hall; 2013-10-18 at 02:38 PM.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    I generally make it obvious many people are suffering and poor.
    But the wage slaves live around Squatter-Middle depending on their job, location, and living costs(Say they split the apartment between 2-3 people)

    I see it this way, the corps want Shadowrunners but at the same time don't want the whole of the populations turning towards crime so they throw just enough scraps to let those people under them have slightly better then most of the criminals.
    And working ones way up the ladder can make it so the person can further themselves. Its a stick+carrot, keep them running which attracts enough of the population to have the labor source needed for the corps to operate, get scientists, guinea pigs, security, etc.
    Feed them enough that they could sell you out but then offer them better rewards to sell out the guy whose stealing information.

    The idea of keeping them in a constant dismal lifestyle no matter their choice of career reduces their numbers enough that it would negatively effect profits; and in the end each corp is about the nuyen in the end.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    #gpoy
    Heh heh, yeah, it's like that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    I find the real problem comes when you've got a mix. When some people are, if not altruistic, at least not out to actively screw people over... then you've got one or two guys whose sole purpose is to mess with other people.
    Ugh. Yeah, I have run games with a group like that far too often. I used to have this player was a real decent guy and got alone swell with the other players, but if we ever played Shadowrun, he *always* played the nastiest character at the table.

    Maybe that's how he learned to play, but it was jarring when everyone else was trying to play nice as a team. One time that player couldn't make it to a session, so the team street sam declared "Quick, let's go find a burning orphanage to save!"


    Quote Originally Posted by Vknight View Post
    I see it this way, the corps want Shadowrunners but at the same time don't want the whole of the populations turning towards crime
    I figure most of the poor populous doesn't have the skills or the drive to turn to the shadows. Mugging random strangers on the street is one thing, but I imagine you needsa certain amount of bravado and insanity to do what runners do.
    But yeah, stick-and-carrot games are probably common.


    Here's a thought; Given the game takes place in the future (2050s-70s) have any groups come up with new cultural fluff for TV/music/internet memes/etc.?

    Like, in my campaigns the group came up with a Techno-Country music genre and the most famous singer from that is "Johnny Nuyen". There's an ork boy band called "Occam's Razors", and my personal favorite was this continuing trid series I invented called "Gettysburg 2099" (about Earth's first interstellar colony undergoing a civil war).
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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Jester View Post
    Just because the setting might be dystopian, doesn't mean that the player characters have to be a bunch of horrible people; you can have a very meaningful and fun game if you have the players as a group of rather altruistic people who are more like modern Robin Hoods and try to protect their neighbourhood or go after a particularly vile opponent, like insect spirits or groups like Tamanous. Well, especially in a rather unpleasant setting, you can actually make the fact that the professional criminals are about the most altruistic and helpful people around a meaningful part of the grimness of the setting.
    I remember a game waaay back in second edition where we played a gang/initiation group of Ki-Adepts and urban shamans who tried to keep their little part of the barrens from turning (too) toxic. They never had much money, but they were pretty decent people (as long as you didn't threat their turf or the people who lived there).
    Ki-Adepts ?

    Here's a thought; Given the game takes place in the future (2050s-70s) have any groups come up with new cultural fluff for TV/music/internet memes/etc.?
    'When Mages explode' reality show of amusing(?) clips of magical accidents
    'Jenkins: Orc Detective' police procedural with the added twist that the hero spends as much time combatting racism against him as an orc as investigating crimes
    In an old campiagn the female Physical Adept used her appearance in 'Euphoria versus the masters of the Hive'(see the 'Queen Euphoria ' campaign) into a minor career as a martial arts action star and managed to get a Modesty Blaise film made that was popular enough to spawn sequel
    Last edited by comicshorse; 2013-10-18 at 09:57 AM.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    That's just what they called adepts in earlier versions (do they still call them "physical adepts"/physads, or has that gone now too?)
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