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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: 3.5 12 New-ish Fighter Feats, PEACH (Buffing the Mundanes)

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelalex242 View Post
    Perhaps a simpler idea:

    The fighter, by level 20, gets EVERY feat in the PHB by level 20 that's currently listed as a fighter bonus feat.

    Also, all 'one weapon only' feats, he applies to every weapon.
    So every fighter would have identical abilities? I think people would like to customize their fighter with more than just equipment.

    edit: also, I think that a feat that gave lots of hit points would be fine. Around +50% of current hit points would be quite acceptable, although a little bland.
    Last edited by Cheiromancer; 2013-10-24 at 08:07 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: 3.5 12 New-ish Fighter Feats, PEACH (Buffing the Mundanes)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheiromancer View Post
    So every fighter would have identical abilities? I think people would like to customize their fighter with more than just equipment.
    I'm not crazy about the Everyfeat capstone for Fighter 20, but to be fair to the idea, every Wizard 20 is effectively the same--has every spell in the book plus every spell in a few other books. Paladin 20s, Barbarian 20s, Monk 20s, Druid 20s, Cleric 20s are all pretty much interchangeable--a different domain here, a different feat or two there, but by level 20 you have every good option covered.

    The bigger problem with the Everyfeat capstone is it overpromises and underdelivers, like the Monk 20 Outsider capstone. Looking at the box "ZOMG every feat broken--cheese--kill it with fire--Maximized Empowered Fireball", but when you actually open the box and see what you get, it's not terribly much for level 20.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: 3.5 12 New-ish Fighter Feats, PEACH (Buffing the Mundanes)

    I just noticed that shield bonuses don't apply to touch AC, probably because we've played D&D for decades and only thought about shields in editions where "facing" was an issue. People would be more likely to use a shield in preference to TWF or THF if shield applied to touch AC, and the fluff of BAW-Shield fits nicely with your shield blocking touch attacks.

    I think that adding your shield bonus to your touch AC should definitely be an option for the Be Awesome With A Shield chain. You're actively using your shield to block, and taking the same attack penalty as if you had a second weapon.

    Should this roll into the original BAW-Shield feat, or should it be a follow-on feat? "Be More Awesome With A Shield" could become "shield bonus to touch AC" and the old BMAW-Shield could be renamed Shield Ally.

    Actually I should rename BMAW-Shield anyway.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: 3.5 12 New-ish Fighter Feats, PEACH (Buffing the Mundanes)

    Identical fighters?

    Not at all. Every fighter would have every PHB fighter feat by level 20.

    There's how many other books to take feats out of, again?

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: 3.5 12 New-ish Fighter Feats, PEACH (Buffing the Mundanes)

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelalex242 View Post
    Identical fighters?

    Not at all. Every fighter would have every PHB fighter feat by level 20.

    There's how many other books to take feats out of, again?
    I sympathize with what you're doing, but I think the Every(PHB)feat Capstone hits whatever the opposite of the sweet spot is. It can look terrifying on the outside, while not providing that much benefit in practice.

    How many players with Fighter 20s have ever actually been hampered by lack of a PHB feat? Maybe an Exotic Weapon Proficiency for a weapon the DM made up. That's about it.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: 3.5 12 New-ish Fighter Feats, PEACH (Buffing the Mundanes)

    Well, versatility is the idea, right?

    So yes, that does include Exotic Weapon proficiency (Everything), complete with weapon focus, greater weapon focus, Improved Critical weapon specialization, and greater weapon specialization.

    In practice, what it really does is allow the fighter to pick up random loot from a dungeon crawl, and if it's better then what he's got, he can use it as if it were his trademark weapon from level one.

    (And if it happens to be a bow, he's got every archery feat imaginable to go with it. A two hander? He's got all relevant feats. A shield? He knows all there is to know about one. Spiked chain? Sure, he's got combat reflexes. A lance? Why yes, I've got every mounted combat feat imaginable.)

    Also, improved crit everything means he need never customize his gear with the keen special property. If the game goes epic, well, he's got every possible pre-req for his favorite epic feats.

    And then, imagine 'omnifeat' in Pathfinder, in which they've got more feats then they know what to do with...
    Last edited by Angelalex242; 2013-10-24 at 10:08 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: 3.5 12 New-ish Fighter Feats, PEACH (Buffing the Mundanes)

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelalex242 View Post
    Well, versatility is the idea, right?

    So yes, that does include Exotic Weapon proficiency (Everything), complete with weapon focus, greater weapon focus, Improved Critical weapon specialization, and greater weapon specialization.
    I don't think anyone would object to EWP-Everything. Even Greater Weapon Specialization is a +2/+4. IF Thor's Hammer Mjolnir is that much better than your beloved Quickblade or Thwackstick then just switch and don't whine about +2 to hit and +4 to damage.

    If we wake up and realize that four feats for +2 to hit and +4 to damage blows, and tweak weapon specialization to actually mean something (1/2 BAB?), then WS at Fighter 20 should mean more than whatever goodies the epic weapon has.

    In practice, what it really does is allow the fighter to pick up random loot from a dungeon crawl, and if it's better then what he's got, he can use it as if it were his trademark weapon from level one.
    I'm agin' it for story purposes. If he's been using a longsword or greataxe or heavy flail or quarterstaff for 15 levels and carrying the same weapon for 10 levels, he should stick it out to the end.

    (And if it happens to be a bow, he's got every archery feat imaginable to go with it. A two hander? He's got all relevant feats. A shield? He knows all there is to know about one. Spiked chain? Sure, he's got combat reflexes. A lance? Why yes, I've got every mounted combat feat imaginable.)
    I like the power to be within the characters rather than in the items. If Weapon Specialization were an extra full attack every other round (2E rule), or 1/2 BAB to hit and damage, switching from Roy's +1 undead bane greatsword to a +5 holy bastard sword isn't worth it.

    In all likelihood, the fighter probably has a buddy who could use the sweet loot anyway--a nonspecialized fighter/paladin/barbarian/rogue.

    Also, improved crit everything means he need never customize his gear with the keen special property.
    "Improved Crit for all weapons, and a stackable Improved Crit for any you took the feat for" is completely fair.

    If the game goes epic, well, he's got every possible pre-req for his favorite epic feats.

    And then, imagine 'omnifeat' in Pathfinder, in which they've got more feats then they know what to do with...
    It is a capstone feat, I'm just saying I think it sounds overpowered while it's actually not game-breaking, so it's not worth the argument.

    Now, "True Weapon Specialization" to add 1/2 BAB to hit and damage....

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Thumbs up Re: 3.5 12 New-ish Fighter Feats, PEACH (Buffing the Mundanes)

    A problem with mundanes are that the aspects of mundane charecters are scattered across multiple classes...

    Roll all mundanes in to a single class and then add lots and lots of nice feats....

    Smth like gestalt fighter/barbarian/rogue/monk/knight/ninja/?

    For nerfing casters, I've been toying with an ideer about dividing spells levels in to 2 groups...

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...4#post20284394

    Deity and normal

    Spells above level 4 are for deities only
    Spells below level 5 are unchanged
    Last edited by tsj; 2016-01-11 at 07:08 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: 3.5 12 New-ish Fighter Feats, PEACH (Buffing the Mundanes)

    Quote Originally Posted by tsj View Post
    A problem with mundanes are that the aspects of mundane charecters are scattered across multiple classes...

    Roll all mundanes in to a single class and then add lots and lots of nice feats....

    Smth like gestalt fighter/barbarian/rogue/monk/knight/ninja/?
    Well, I'd say that there are different mundane (non-spellcaster) combat archetypes. The speed-and-agility based quickblade, Bigass Weapon Guy, sword-and-board type. Not to mention archer/gunslinger. Not to mention the less-combat-specialized D&D rogue. If we gestalt all the non-spellcasting Core classes, the math of the rules still dictates One TRue Way of melee combat. I don't like that--there should be tradeoffs between two-handed power-attacking, two-weapon fighting, archery and sword-and-board, not just one way being better and the others sacrificing effectiveness for roleplaying.

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Question Re: 3.5 12 New-ish Fighter Feats, PEACH (Buffing the Mundanes)

    Johnbragg:

    You are correct that all combat styles should be on equal terms...
    Such a class would need to take that into account such that all class options are viable and all mundane archtypes can be covered... this should allow a mundane to specialize in one type of combat or to use a mixture of types...

    all while retaining the combat style flavors and avoiding that one style is better than others

    The rogue aspect will help to give a common mundane class (the muggle class?) something to do while not on a battle field...

    Stuff like...

    Sneak in and get item X or
    Assassinate Y or
    Track Z

    Maybe by also adding some noble type classes...

    Diplomacy A or
    Go to party B

    Still it's very difficult to add non combat class features to mundanes

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: 3.5 12 New-ish Fighter Feats, PEACH (Buffing the Mundanes)

    Quote Originally Posted by tsj View Post
    Johnbragg:

    You are correct that all combat styles should be on equal terms...
    Such a class would need to take that into account such that all class options are viable and all mundane archtypes can be covered... this should allow a mundane to specialize in one type of combat or to use a mixture of types...

    all while retaining the combat style flavors and avoiding that one style is better than others

    The rogue aspect will help to give a common mundane class (the muggle class?) something to do while not on a battle field...

    Stuff like...

    Sneak in and get item X or
    Assassinate Y or
    Track Z

    Maybe by also adding some noble type classes...

    Diplomacy A or
    Go to party B

    Still it's very difficult to add non combat class features to mundanes
    IF you want to theorycraft, you could start with an Expert//Warrior gestalt, give them a bonus feat every level, declare any class feature ever published or homebrewed that strikes your fancy a feat, and see where it takes you.

    That lets your beatsticks be sneaky, or be diplomancers, or wilderness experts, or sages with Knowledges out the wazoo, when they're not busy being beatsticks.

    That's getting you close to the UA Generic classes (Warrior, Expert, Spellcaster), which may not be the worst thing if you're rethinking mundanes that hard. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/cl...ricClasses.htm
    Last edited by johnbragg; 2016-01-11 at 12:04 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Lightbulb Re: 3.5 12 New-ish Fighter Feats, PEACH (Buffing the Mundanes)

    Johnbragg:
    A Muggle class that is actually a gestalt of the generic warrior and expert classes might just be the ticket ... if combined with lots and lots of utility based home brewed feats...

    Also with all good saves...

    And perhaps getting a feat at every level

    ....

    The spellcaster should be both divine & arcane... ie.. can freely select between divine and/or arcane spells

    Have all poor saves and max spell level for learning new spells should be 4...

    Spell slots above 4 are for metamagic

    Spells that start at a level above 4 should be for deities only

    ....

    A gish generic class could be a class that is half muggle and half spellcaster

    .....

    A psionic... hmm... maybe a spellcaster could get psi powers as feats...

    .....

    A warlock.... same as psi... should be spellcaster only feats
    Last edited by tsj; 2016-01-11 at 01:55 PM.

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