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    Default Complete Scoundrel Feats

    Okay the Complete Scoundrel excerpts are out. This post is about the feats and power increases, if you want to talk about the new prestige class the Master of Masks check out this thread
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31144


    This book is going to be a major power creep for many classes, probably far worse than complete mage, maybe as bad as complete divine for cheese clerics. Look at these feats. The full list is here

    http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x...070105a&page=2

    I am just doing a quick selection from the full list of feats in the excerpt of what seems powerful with a quick glance and posting it here.

    Daring Outlaw
    Pre Req: Grace +1, sneak attack +2d6
    Benefit: Rogue and swashbuckler levels stack for grace, dodge bonus, and sneak attack

    Daring Warrior2
    Pre Req: Grace +1, Weapon Specialization
    Benefit: Fighter and swashbuckler levels stack for grace, dodge bonus, and feats

    Improved Skirmish[3]
    Pre Req: Skirmish +2d6/+1 AC
    Benefit: Move 20 feet to gain +2d6 points of damage, +2 AC (Think Unseen Seer with fly or something)

    Martial Stalker[2]
    Pre Req: Proficiency with all martial weapons, ki power
    Benefit: Fighter and ninja levels stack for ki pool, AC bonus, and feats

    Master Spellthief
    Pre Req: Ability to cast 2nd-level arcane spells, steal spell
    Benefit: Spellthief and arcane spellcaster levels stack for steal spell and arcane caster level; cast arcane spells in light armor

    Swift Hunter[3]
    `Favored enemy, skirmish +1d6/+1 AC , sneak attack +1d6
    Ranger and scout levels stack for skirmish bonuses, favored enemies

    Swift Ambusher[3]
    Skirmish +1d6/+1 AC
    Rogue and scout levels stack for skirmish bonuses

    Now look at the skill tricks and drool
    http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070105a&page=5
    Last edited by Ramza00; 2007-01-05 at 08:34 PM.
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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    YEAH I KNOW ZOMG. I totally want to play a Spellthief/Sorceror with the Master Spellthief feat now. Maybe even PrC into Occult Slayer for extra strange.

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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    Some selections, full list here
    http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x...070105a&page=5

    Nimble Charge
    Pre Reqs: Balance 5 ranks
    Benefits: Run or charge across difficult surface without Balance check
    (Oh this is great for the barbarian, frenzied berserker)

    Extreme Leap
    Pre Reqs: Jump 5 ranks
    Benefits: Horizontal jump of at least 10 feet allows 10 extra feet of movement that round

    Acrobatic Backstab
    Pre Reqs: Tumble 12 ranks
    Benefits: Move through foe's space to render it flat-footed
    (Rogues will love this feat, and it would go really well with the gnome that kills giants build Logicninja made months ago and post on this board)

    Swift Concentration
    Pre Reqs: Concentration 12 ranks
    Benefits: Maintain concentration on spell as swift action
    (Used to take a feat, extraordinary concentration)

    Magical Appraisal
    Pre Reqs: Appraise 5 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks, Spellcraft 12 ranks
    Benefits: Determine properties of magic items
    (Not available till 9th lvl, but it gets rid of some of the annoying identify spells at that lvl, remember this comic? )
    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0116.html

    Listen to This
    Pre Reqs: Listen 5 ranks
    Benefits: Perfectly repeat what you've recently heard
    (Just plain cool)

    Clarity of Vision
    Pre Reqs: Spot 12 ranks
    Benefits: Notice invisible enemies for 1 round
    (This may be useful, I wonder what type of action if any it is?)

    Whip Climber
    Pre Reqs: Use Rope 5 ranks, proficiency with whip
    Benefits: Use a whip as a grappling hook
    (Just plain cool)

    Shrouded Dance
    Pre Reqs: Hide 8 ranks, Perform (dance) 5 ranks
    Benefits: Use move action to gain concealment for 1 round
    (Useful for any rogue available at lvl 5)

    False Theurgy
    Pre Reqs: Bluff or Sleight of Hand 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks
    Benefits: Your spell appears to be another spell of the same level
    (NICE!!!)

    Conceal Spellcasting
    Pre Reqs: Concentration 1 rank, Sleight of Hand 5 ranks, Spellcraft 1 rank
    Benefits: Conceal your spellcasting from onlookers
    (Will this be more valuable for DMs or PCs, the story possibilities *devil*)

    Social Recovery
    Pre Reqs: Bluff 8 ranks, Diplomacy 5 ranks
    Benefits: Make Bluff check to replace a failed Diplomacy check
    (The party loves the party face )

    Second Impression
    Pre Reqs: Bluff 5 ranks, Disguise 5 ranks
    Benefits: Make Bluff check to reestablish blown disguise
    (DMs will hate this, Nale must have complete scoundrel )
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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    Sigh the fighter class became an even more no more than 4 lvls class. Why play it when you can do Swashbuckler 16/Fighter 4 with the Daring Warrior feat. Unlike the other multiclass feats new combos, swashbuckler gives d10 hps, good fort, and good bab and 4 skill points per lvl so there is really no reason to take this class besides the "fighter only" feats in PHB2.
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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Sigh the fighter class became an even more no more than 4 lvls class. Why play it when you can do Swashbuckler 16/Fighter 4 with the Daring Warrior feat. Unlike the other multiclass feats new combos, swashbuckler gives d10 hps, good fort, and good bab and 4 skill points per lvl so there is really no reason to take this class besides the "fighter only" feats in PHB2.
    Eh... Swashbucklers weren't worth much more than a dip in the first place. And Fighters aren't worth 4 levels yet, I think it's still just the 2. Specialization is poor unless you get all the way to Supremacy...
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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyserpent View Post
    Eh... Swashbucklers weren't worth much more than a dip in the first place. And Fighters aren't worth 4 levels yet, I think it's still just the 2. Specialization is poor unless you get all the way to Supremacy...
    Fighters have always been poor full classes, and the only time you take more than 4 lvls of fighter is if you need alot of feats "in a hurry" (fighter 2/psi war 2 is another good way to get lots of feats in a hurry) such as a tripper/aoo king. Of course this very limited use of a fighter, but still a very useful purpose is now changed.

    Remember people, spiked chain is a finessable weapon and thus works with swashbuckler, spiked chain is a great trip/aoo weapon, and the chain also works with the shadowhand feat that does dex to damage.

    Adding 1 lvl of Swordsage since to make the shadowhand feat requirement simpler, plus you get weapon focus spiked chain making your weapon specialization costs easier, followed by a 2nd lvl of swordsage later for Wis to AC in light armor since many of the swordsage abilities only work in light armor or less.
    Last edited by Ramza00; 2007-01-05 at 09:20 PM.
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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    ...I have to say I practically don't believe Daring Warrior is real. It sounds just too absolutely insane.

    I know some bad ideas have been created in the past but...still it just doesn't seem like it is possible that a decision that flawed could exist. I'd much rather believe that the text of the ability is a typo or is misleading.

    Grace and dodge bonus stacking...I can sort of see that, it's not insane at least...but stacking for the purposes of bonus feats? can this possibly, in any sane universe be true? Especially when the other class is very close to functionally identical to Fighter otherwise.
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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    Um, what in the name of sweet Wee Jas is wrong with you people? Nobody mentioned the greatest feat in the book, Throat Punch!

    Throat Punch
    Improved Unarmed Strike, sneak attack +3d6

    Trade 2d6 sneak attack damage to hinder target's speech, sneak attack +3d6 for 3 rounds.


    Time for a liberal application of smackdown.

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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    Spellthief1/Sorc4/UnseenSeer10/AT5
    with Arcane Reserve feat, Master Spellthief (can steal up to 9th lvl spells, can't tell if you can use those spell lvls to power your spells or just recast them) and Practiced Spellcaster just became a good "Dungeon crawling"/"Endurance Caster." Does 7d6 sneak attack damage at lvl 20, about 14d6 or 15d6(with an additional caster lvl from an item or magic tatoo) with the advanced learning hunter's eye persisted.
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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    WOOO WEEE! I gotta get me this book. Rogue was the first ever class I played and is still up there with Psion for me. These bring full throttle the enthusiasm I used to have for the class.

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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by BCOVertigo View Post
    Um, what in the name of sweet Wee Jas is wrong with you people? Nobody mentioned the greatest feat in the book, Throat Punch!
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    Now WOTC balance staff on the other hand can't use this excuse.
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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by oriong View Post
    ...I have to say I practically don't believe Daring Warrior is real. It sounds just too absolutely insane.

    I know some bad ideas have been created in the past but...still it just doesn't seem like it is possible that a decision that flawed could exist. I'd much rather believe that the text of the ability is a typo or is misleading.

    Grace and dodge bonus stacking...I can sort of see that, it's not insane at least...but stacking for the purposes of bonus feats? can this possibly, in any sane universe be true? Especially when the other class is very close to functionally identical to Fighter otherwise.
    I thought this was in reference to feat prerequisites, not bonus feats. As in, you could be Swash 2/Fighter 2 and still take Specialization. I don't think it's for bonus feats, that would make the entire fighter class useless, since it's all they get. It'll probably be cleared out in the actual text for the feat.
    Will be edited by Ryuuk : Sometime in the future.

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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by oriong View Post
    ...I have to say I practically don't believe Daring Warrior is real. It sounds just too absolutely insane.

    I know some bad ideas have been created in the past but...still it just doesn't seem like it is possible that a decision that flawed could exist. I'd much rather believe that the text of the ability is a typo or is misleading.

    Grace and dodge bonus stacking...I can sort of see that, it's not insane at least...but stacking for the purposes of bonus feats? can this possibly, in any sane universe be true? Especially when the other class is very close to functionally identical to Fighter otherwise.
    No, no, no... It doesn't mean "Swashbucklers get all of the same bonus feats per level as Fighters" It's "You can use swashbuckler levels for "Weapon Specialization" and like feats"

    I hope...

    Edit: Gah! Simued...

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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    then, not terribly insane. The 'fighter only' bonus feats weren't the draw of the class anyway, just a bit of extra incentive. Still quite good compared to some of the original 'class combo' feats though.
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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyserpent View Post
    No, no, no... It doesn't mean "Swashbucklers get all of the same bonus feats per level as Fighters" It's "You can use swashbuckler levels for "Weapon Specialization" and like feats"

    I hope...
    Somebody on the CO boards who says he has the book says it works that way and you don't actually get the feats. Hopefully it isn't someone lying.

    Good :) Still some of the other class combos are still nice.
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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    Dang, those skill tricks look like fun. Walk the Walls and Wall Jumper just brought images of a boss fight or two in Devil May Cry 3's Trickster style. Whip Climber turns you into Indiana Jones and I'm sure I've tried to do Leaping Climber before. And they all only cost 2 skill points...

    (Fine really, twas my first Simu by the way)
    Will be edited by Ryuuk : Sometime in the future.

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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    Looks nice. A small power-up for some weak classes and multiclass combos and the skill trick thing looks incredibly cool. I love playing acrobatic meleers and this will give me all kinds of new fun things to do.

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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    The best use I can see for the Master of Masks is using the Dragon mask to get a breath weapon to apply the breath-weapon-changing spells in the SpC to (like Stunning Breath, etc)--but that's probably best done with the Dragon Breath spell.

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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    So, a Ranger 5/Scout 5 with the Swift Hunter feat would get the Favored Enemys of a Ranger lvl 10 and the Skirmish of a Scout lvl 10???

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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    So, a Ranger 5/Scout 5 with the Swift Hunter feat would get the Favored Enemys of a Ranger lvl 10 and the Skirmish of a Scout lvl 10???
    Correct. Ranger 6/Scout 4 may be a smarter move longer term though. Only reason you would want to end with Scout 5 is that you have to have evasion at lvl 5. Ranger will give you eventually evasion and two evasions don't yield you improved evasion.
    Last edited by Ramza00; 2007-01-06 at 01:17 AM.
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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    Sadly, the Fighter multiclass feats do not give you any bonus feats, only the ability to take Greater Weapon Specialization. Crappy.

    That said, the Monk/Ninja one means you can finally have a Ninja that's actually decent.

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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    Persistent Attacker
    Sneak attack +5d6
    Trade 4d6 sneak attack damage to allow sneak attack in next round

    Fun. I can just see someone doing that now, with say, a Ninja. Flanking doesn't count? Who cares? I am now going to hit you, run back out of range, then hit you again next round, sacrifice some of the damage, etc. It's like the classic Ninja run-by slash trope all over again. :D
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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    Walk the Walls Climb 12 ranks, Tumble 5 ranks Run straight up wall for 1 round
    for 2 skill points thats a better deal than the Psionic feat "Up the walls"

    (for Non Psi PC's atleast)
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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    Skirmish gets some nice boosts too:

    Improved Skirmish[3] Skirmish +2d6/+1 AC Move 20 feet to gain +2d6 points of damage, +2 AC

    I never did like the whole Sparring Dummy/Eberron Rollerskates cheese, and this rewards you for being a "proper" Scout - with Greater Manyshot!

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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by oriong View Post
    ...I have to say I practically don't believe Daring Warrior is real. It sounds just too absolutely insane.

    I know some bad ideas have been created in the past but...still it just doesn't seem like it is possible that a decision that flawed could exist. I'd much rather believe that the text of the ability is a typo or is misleading.

    Grace and dodge bonus stacking...I can sort of see that, it's not insane at least...but stacking for the purposes of bonus feats? can this possibly, in any sane universe be true? Especially when the other class is very close to functionally identical to Fighter otherwise.
    It doesn't give you bonus feats. It means you count as fighter X for the purpose of things like weapon specialisation and supremacy and so forth.
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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikkitosen View Post
    Skirmish gets some nice boosts too:

    Improved Skirmish[3] Skirmish +2d6/+1 AC Move 20 feet to gain +2d6 points of damage, +2 AC

    I never did like the whole Sparring Dummy/Eberron Rollerskates cheese, and this rewards you for being a "proper" Scout - with Greater Manyshot!
    Arggh... damn Greater Many Shot
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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
    Arggh... damn Greater Many Shot
    Had problems with Scouts then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxic_Avenger View Post
    Trust me, Ikkitosen knows what he's talking about.

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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    GMS or not, it's not like Scouts will become some devastating combat force because of their Skirmish damage.

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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    Wow. That's pretty good stuff.

    Daring Outlaw and Warrior look broken already. Rogue 1/Fighter1/Swashbuckler 18 with those two feats is powerful.
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    Default Re: Complete Scoundrel Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain van der Decken View Post
    Daring Outlaw and Warrior look broken already. Rogue 1/Fighter1/Swashbuckler 18 with those two feats is powerful.
    It doesn't work?

    Daring Warrior and Daring Outlaw both require at least four levels of fighter and rogue. You'd be Rogue 4 / Fighter 4 / Swashbuckler 12.

    Although they're still good.

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