Skill Tricks

[Machete]

Well, Intelligence just became more valuable.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x...070105a&page=5

How do you think this will effect the gaming experience. I'd love to hear everyone's input on balance, fun, potential, peril, and how yummylicious Skill Tricks are.

[Fhaolan]

My first reaction is 'needless complication'. These feel like little mini-feats that have been hooked into skill points so rogue-types have half a chance of getting them, rather than fighter-types.

My second thought is that this is yet another step down the path to turning d20 into a full point-buy system like GURPS. The next step will be to eliminate feat slots entirely, give the classes more skill points per level to compensate and put skill point prices on all the feats.

[oriong]

I don't think d20 will ever become full point buy, althought it might resemble it a bit more as time goes on.

I think it's mostly a recognition that skill-focused characters can be somewhat uninteresting, just having a long list of bonuses to throw against whatever DC is put in front of you, and feats rarely change this (like they tend to do for combat).

Also, probably recongizing the diminishing returns of skill points as you rise in levels, where each new +1 every level becomes increasingly less helpful and doesn't have nearly as much of an impact on the player.

[Tor the Fallen]

I think I like them. They add rules for stuff players often want to emulate. And since they're now codified, they will no longer be ad hoc at the DM's whim.

Fighters should get a special pool to spend on tricks. Maybe 2 bonus skill pts for every other bonus feat? (2 pts at level 2, level 4, and so on).

[oriong]

I dont' imagine extra skill points for fighters is really necessary. there are 9 tricks fighters will ever likely have access to, and maybe only half (if that many) that any particular fighter will ever feel the urge to take. Fighters may have pitiful skill points, but their skill selection is so small that there is really no reason at all for them not to spend them on the tricks.

[Tor the Fallen]

I dont' imagine extra skill points for fighters is really necessary. there are 9 tricks fighters will ever likely have access to, and maybe only half (if that many) that any particular fighter will ever feel the urge to take. Fighters may have pitiful skill points, but their skill selection is so small that there is really no reason at all for them not to spend them on the tricks.

Yeah, good point.
I was just thinking about non-human fighters with an int lower than 10.
Everything that has to do with skills seems to encourage more playing of humans.

[Dhavaer]

I like it, and I intend to get the book to see exactly how it works. I'm happy to have the d20 system become more 'point buy' like.

[Skyserpent]

Agreed, I like having cold hard rules to fall back on for this kind of stuff. It's just there to give you more options and yes, it's costing more points. I can live with that.

[danielf]

i think it's nice a buy points like gurps

[Maglor_Grubb]

I likes it a lot... Especially the daring feats, for the more martial scoundrels...

[Ikkitosen]

Skillmonkeys need love. I agree that the game is already too complicated, but if you're going to add new stuff these are the classes that need it.

Complete Mage was good, interesting stuff but arcanists hardly needed the power boost did they? WotC knew a lot of people would buy it though, but that's a different matter.

[squishycube]

I think these Skill Tricks could represent what I've come to dislike about D&D since I started playing Iron Heroes.
Wizards always seems to be trying to pin down every single thing in the game, making rules for every single possible action.
I like the open ended system presented in Iron Heroes so much more.
(For the uninitiated: IH has skill challenges and Attack Challenges. These are penalties to rolls to accomplish something normally not possible. There are examples in the book, but you are encouraged to invent new ones.)

It makes you look at the battlefield and your skills in such a different way, always looking for things to use on the battlefield, places to move to start interesting moves from.

[ken-do-nim]

My first reaction is 'needless complication'. These feel like little mini-feats that have been hooked into skill points so rogue-types have half a chance of getting them, rather than fighter-types.

My second thought is that this is yet another step down the path to turning d20 into a full point-buy system like GURPS. The next step will be to eliminate feat slots entirely, give the classes more skill points per level to compensate and put skill point prices on all the feats.

My first reaction too. I thought the definition of a feat was something you learn to do and you can use it without making a check. So skills = opposed rolls vs. feats = trick you do. Now they have skill tricks? Um, they are feats. By definition.

That being said, I'd be happy if they converted d20 to point buy. Some feats like all the ones that give a +2 to two different skills might be less points than an awesome feat like power attack.

[Telok]

Hmm, most of what I see on that list are +10 to +30 DC modifiers. A couple might be feats, almost. Some could be slightly different uses of a skill or uses of a different skill. Some sound more like skill combos.

I don't really see what you need a new game mechanic for.

Interaction: The first five listed sound like DC modifiers. The last could easily be a feat.

Manipulation: The second, third, fifth, and sixth could be feats. Possibly 2-for-1 feats (a feat that lets you do two similar skill related things). The others are just very high DC modifiers.

The rest seem to be more of the same. Also, I think that this has the implication of saying "you can't do this with just a skill DC modifier, you have to have a special rule". This seems to trend towards more rules and more specific rules while restraining a player's ability to be creative with the character.

Dunno. Mabey I just need better info, there may be significant benefits to this that aren't mentioned in a teaser preview.