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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Default Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Welcome to the latest incarnation of the Class and Level Geekery thread! Here, we are discussing what the possible stats are for each of the six OOTS members. Below is an estimate of the characters' stats; this was first kept by Runolfr, Wrecan, and Chrismith. I will update this post as the discussion continues and as subsequent strips reveal more information about OOTS; RMS Oceanic will update the post with the other characters.

    The aim of this thread is that we give D&D statistics for the characters in the comic based on the events and statements made in the comic, plus statements by The Giant in the forum and his books. For this purpose, we assume that the comic strictly follows the 3.5E D&D rules. We are aware that The Giant has stated that he doesn't always follow the rules, because his goal is to write a story and not to write session reports from a D&D campaign. Nevertheless, in this thread we assume the rules are being followed anyway, and see what stats, feats, and skills could explain what happens. Essentially, that means we're taking the rules side of the comic more seriously than its author does; if you like, you can assume a little footnote on every factoid of this thread that says "* or The Giant used a houserule". Why? Well, because it's Geekery. If Star Trek fans can do it, then so can we

    Please read the thread rules by Mark Hall.
    Last edited by Kurald Galain; 2014-02-06 at 08:04 PM.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Frequently Asked Questions

    Q: Which source books are used in the comic?
    • Player's Handbook 1 and Dungeon Master's Guide 1
    • Book of Vile Darkness (certain monsters; Boost Spell Resistance feat)
    • Complete Adventurer (ninjas)
    • Complete Arcane (warlocks; Tsukiko's and Zz'dtri's spells)
    • Complete Warrior (hexblade)
    • Dungeonscape (Thog; the acid-breathing shark; note that The Giant co-wrote this book)
    • Expanded Psionics Handbook (blue; mindblade)
    • Fiend Folio (certain monsters)
    • Magic of Incarnum (mentioned by Redcloak's lackey)
    • Monster Manual (mentioned by Celia and Vaarsuvius)
    • Monster Manual 2 (certain monsters)
    • Oriental Adventures (other samurai class, and mentioned by Xykon)
    • Spell Compendium (numerous spells that aren't from the PHB1)
    • uncertain: Epic Level Handbook (a feat and spell from this book are mentioned, but most epic characters or spells in the comic don't follow the rules from this book)


    Q: In which comic do the characters demonstrate having leveled?
    {table]Level||||||
    9|12|12|12|12|12|12
    10|124|125|124|124|124|124
    11|251|???|201|???|???|186
    12|???, 665|249|???|???|477|???
    13|485, 862|???|556|393|511|397
    14|886|???|859|647|???|627
    15|936|860| - |904|615|716
    16| - |936| - |936|936|935[/table]

    Q: Which characters are included in this thread?
    (1) All named members of the Order, Team Evil, the Linear Guild, the Order of the Scribble, and Team Tarquin.
    (2) Any frequently occurring character, as noted in the Character Appearances thread. Note that this includes Samantha: it was easier to be a common character back when the comic was shorter. We don't unlist characters just because they've died.
    (3) Family members of the main characters, as long as we have something to write about them.
    This means that Daigo and Kazumi would be next in line, but we don't have a lot of material on either character.

    Q: Which material is covered by this thread?
    All comics on the web and in print (including SSDT, Gygax magazine, and the Kickstarter bonus stories), as well as anything written about the comic by The Giant. However, not included are any one-panel joke comics, such as used for incentives, t-shirts, or the fundraiser.
    Note that even though the characters have stated they aren't sure whether this is the same continuity, certain items and abilities have been shown to carry over. We're listing all of it here for the sake of convenience, but any material from (e.g.) SSDT is clearly marked as such so that people can distinguish it from the main online comics.

    Q: I've heard there was a fight over some topic years ago, and now we're not allowed to discuss it any more. Is that the case?
    No; this thread does not have a banned topic list (of course, the forum as a whole has one; please see the board rules for details).

    Q: Is a character's statement about another character considered evidence?
    Yes. We assume that when a character says something about another character's (or his own) ability scores, build, feats, and so forth, they are speaking the truth, except where this contradicts with other evidence or is clearly not possible within the rules.

    Q: If a character makes a special attack like grappling, and his victim does not make an attack of opportunity, can that be evidence of a feat like Improved Grapple?
    Yes, assuming the victim is armed, and otherwise capable of making AOOs. It is clear that the rules for attacks of opportunity are used in the comic, and there is no reason to assume that grappling/tripping/sundering is an exception.

    Q: If somebody doesn't say the name of a spell while casting it, does that mean he has the Silent Spell feat?
    Not necessarily. We know that Vaarsuvius doesn't have that feat, and yet V still occasionally casts spells while talking about something else.

    Q: What does "Core" mean?
    The three "Core" books in 3E D&D are the Player's Handbook 1 (PHB), Dungeon Master's Guide 1 (DMG), and Monster Manual 1 (MM). This is an official term defined by WOTC, who put the word "Core" in big letters on the cover of these three books. No other books are Core, and there is no such thing as "partially Core", "almost Core", or "semi-Core" - every book is either Core or non-Core. Note that both the OOTS comic and this thread contain numerous non-Core elements.

    Q: Does The Giant use house rules?
    Probably. But for the purpose of this thread, we assume that the comic doesn't, except where The Giant has explicitly said so, or where some event is clearly not possible by the rules. That is, we try to explain events in the comic within the rules as much as possible, and that means not leaving factoids out of this thread just because The Giant might not have followed the rules there.

    Q: A character undertook this heinous/awesome/dutiful/impulsive/meh action. Does that mean they are now evil/good/lawful/chaotic/neutral?
    No. As seen in a thousand forum threads, people have different ideas about alignment, and what defines and changes them. The alignments posted here are taken from the character's own mouth, someone else in a position to know their alignment, or their use of a spell/feat/whatever which has an alignment restriction. Kindly refrain from speculating from how a character's action changes their alignment, since it's not really something you can reason out with facts and numbers.

    Q: A character undertook this brilliant/moronic/insightful/ignorant/inspiring/repulsive action. Does that mean they now have a high/low intelligence/wisdom/charisma score?
    No. Similar to the previous question, people have different ideas about what the mental ability scores represent and how much they influence a character's personality. The ability scores posted here are taken from the character's own mouth, someone else in a position to know their scores, or their use of a spell/feat/whatever which requires a minimum ability score. Kindly refrain from speculating from how a character's personality changes their ability scores, since it's not really something you can reason out with facts and numbers either.

    Q: How does Xykon cast Maximized Energy Drain in comic 652?
    We don't know for sure. The most popular theories involve the feat Improved Spell Capacity, the feat Sudden Maximize, or a Rod of Metamagic. Each theory has its pros and cons.

    Q: What magic item makes Xykon immune to fire damage in comic 653?
    We don't know for sure; there are multiple items within RAW that make their user immune to fire, available from level 14. Note that Xykon doesn't specify whether it's an amulet, ring, belt, or other kind of item.
    Last edited by Kurald Galain; 2014-02-06 at 08:13 PM.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
    Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Roy Greenhilt
    Lawful Good, Human male Fighter 15 (forum).
    Str 24+ (Unmodified strength 20+) *)
    Dex 13+ (required for Improved Grapple)
    Int 14-17 (“very good"*, but V's Int is "higher"*)
    Wis 14+ (“very good"*)
    Cha 12+ (“decent*), modifier less than Elan's.
    Age: 29.
    Feats (13): Cleave, Great Cleave, Power Attack, Horace Greenhilt's Mage Slayer, Improved Grapple, Improved Sunder, Improved Unarmed Strike (prerequisite for Improved Grapple), Weapon Focus (greatsword), Weapon Specialization (greatsword), Endurance (sleeps in armor without getting fatigued).
    Skills (60+): Intimidate, Ride 1,
    Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 2+, Knowledge (Geography), Profession (Goatherd), Spellcraft (OOPC), Bluff 0, Sense Motive 0 (OOPC), Spellcraft.
    Items: Magical armor, Bag of Tricks, club, newspaper, +5 Greatsword, formal suit, shillelagh oil, potion of delay poison, boots, bedroll, list of Xykon's spells, feats and magic items, Belt of Giant Strength, book, sextant.
    *

    Belkar Bitterleaf aka Ali S. Fakenamington (KS:US), aka the Belkster, aka Death's Li'l Helper
    Chaotic Evil, Halfling male Ranger 11+ / Barbarian (forum), total level 16 (forum).
    Str 14-17 (jump exceeds movement, forum, and carrying capacity in SSDT).
    Dex 13+ (prerequisite for Spring Attack).
    Int <10 (OOPC).
    Wis <10 (ability score penalty).
    Cha <10 (without any charisma).
    Age: 28+ (ranger for three years, over a year ago).
    Feats (11): Endurance, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Track, Two-Weapon Fighting (all ranger bonus feats); Bounding Attack, Craft Disturbing Mental Image, Dodge (prerequisite for Spring Attack), Mobility (prerequisite for Spring Attack), Spring Attack, Two-Weapon Pounce; no feats related to special attacks (SSDT).
    Skills (89): Balance 5+, Climb, Craft: Trapmaking, Handle Animal 0 (NCPB), Hide, Jump, Move Silently 2+, Profession: gourmet chef 4, Sense Motive 0, Speak language: halfling (racial), Spellcraft, Spot 0, Survival 0, Use Magic Device (SSDT).
    Abilities: Halfling racial abilities, ranger and barbarian class abilities, animal companion: Mr. Scruffy, scent.
    Items: Unholy symbol, red chalk, cloak, Ring of Jumping +20, stilts, Sapphire guard disguise, quill, string, chef hat, Mama Bitterleaf's secret ingredient, clothespin, bedroll, 3 small magical daggers (which are at least +4 and +2), mimic (SSDT), wand of dispel clothing (SSDT), book: Dune, bucket and spade, bag of holding full of money. Either has dex 15+ or wears light or no armor (to use two-weapon pounce).

    Mr. Scruffy
    True Neutral (forum), Cat male, animal companion.
    Str 6 (animal companion).
    Dex 18 (animal companion).
    Con 10 (racial).
    Int 2 (racial).
    Wis 12 (racial).
    Cha 7 (racial).
    Age: 7 (WXP).
    Feats: Stealthy, Weapon Finesse (racial bonus feats).
    Skills: Balance +10, Climb +6, Hide +16, Jump +10, Listen +3, Move Silently +8, Spot +3 (all racial skills).
    Abilities: Low-light vision, scent (both racial abilities); natural armor +4, link, share spells, evasion, devotion (all animal companion abilities); 3 tricks, including attack and come.
    Items: String.

    Durkon Thundershield
    Lawful Evil, Dwarf vampire male non-theistic (forum) Cleric 14 (based on spells cast in a day).
    Str 20-25 (can carry Vaarsuvius, can't carry Roy; +6 as vampire).
    Dex <14 (dex penalty, SSDT; +4 as vampire).
    Con n/a (undead).
    Int ~12 (no evidence; +2 as vampire).
    Wis 19-25 (required for 7th-level spells, and to lose his best 7th-level spell to Enervation; +2 as vampire).
    Cha <14 (low modifier; +4 as vampire).
    Age: 55+.
    Feats (5): Extend Spell, Extra Turning; Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, and Lightning Reflexes (all vampire bonus feats).
    Skills (31+): Knowledge: Religion not maxed, Listen 0 (OOPC), Ride 0, Speak language: dwarf (racial) and giant (SSDT), Spellcraft, Spot 0.
    Abilities: Dwarf racial abilities, vampire abilities.
    Items: Candles, bedroll, full plate armor, deck of cards, holy symbol, Amulet of Natural Armor, heirloom shield and warhammer, parcheesi board, spyglass, religious vestments, scroll of Sending, belt pouch, Bleedingham papers, flask of liquor, 10,000+ gp of diamond dust, Staff of Obscure Spells, healing potions.
    Spells: Standard cleric list, plus domain spells as listed above, plus Bless Beer (WXP), Call Lightning (DCF), Cat's Grace, Control Winds, Cure Itchy Wounds, Heat Blisters of Eternal Pain, Heathen Smiting, Mass Death Ward with backdoor, Mass Resist Energy, and Tumor.
    Before becoming a vampire, Durkon was Lawful Good, had Con ~12 (racial), the ability Turn Undead, the Good domain (required to cast Holy Smite), and the spells Thor's Lightning and Might of Thor (which is assumed to be the standard cleric spell Righteous Might).

    Elan
    Chaotic Good, Human male Bard 13 (required to get these spells at level-up) / Dashing Swordsman, total level 16 (forum).
    Str <20 (can't carry Roy, and the same as Nale, forum).
    Dex 13-17 (required for Dodge, and to get a four on Move Silently).
    Con same as Nale.
    Int 4-10 (too low to cast cantrips, but higher than Thog.
    Wis <10 (not even a smidgen).
    Cha 22+ (required for 5th level spells at level 13, +2 from belt).
    Age: 22+ (WXP).
    Feats (6): Dodge, Mobility (both prerequisites for Spring Attack), Spring Attack, Still Spell.
    Skills (85+): Diplomacy, Hide, Listen (higher than Sir Francois, OOPC), Move Silently <3, Perform: sing 12+ (required for Inspire Greatness), Perform: string instruments 15+ (required for Song of Freedom), Perform: kazoo, Ride 2+, Spot 0, Spellcraft 2+, Tumble.
    Abilities: Bard class abilities, charismatic strike, dramatic instincts, glass damage immunity.
    Items: Magic rapier, Banjo, ceremonial meat costume (OOPC), dice, Boots of Elvenkind, kazoo, jam, lantern, pingpong bat, roller skate, squirrel, yoyo, dashing outfit, toothbrush, silver +3 keen rapier, lute, Belt of Charisma +2, treasure chest, drawing, The Stick the Order was named after, letter, Chaos Sabre, evil sword (SSDT), castanets and sombrero (SSDT), no armor. Elan still has his old equipment (forum).
    Spells: Animate Rope, Disguise Self, Greater Dispel Magic, Lesser Confusion, Major Image, Mass Cure Light Wounds, Mending, Neutralize Poison, Prestidigitation, Silent Image, Summon Plot Exposition, not Cure Critical Wounds, Identify, or Break Enchantment.

    Haley Starshine aka Mistress Nightingale, aka The Red Blur (OOPC), aka Dark Mistress Shadowgale
    Chaotic Good, Human female Rogue 16 (forum).
    Str 13-19 (high enough to drag the cart, but can't carry Roy).
    Dex 20-21 (modifier of +5, forum).
    Con 9+ (higher than Vaarsuvius).
    Int 12+ (received bonus languages).
    Cha 12-19 (with any charisma; and with maxed out Bluff, for Hide to be her best skill, her cha mod has to be less than her dex mod).
    Age: About 25 (forum; was 24 here, and that was over a year ago).
    Feats (9+): Dodge (SSDT), Improved Precise Shot, Manyshot, Martial Weapon Proficiency (longbow), Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot (prerequisite for IPS), Ranged Pin, Ranged Sunder, Rapid Shot.
    Skills (180+): Appraise, Bluff 18+ (maxed out), Disable Device, Forgery (OOPC), Hide 18+ (best skill), Knowledge: Arcana, Knowledge: Religion low (forum), Open Lock 15, Ride 0, Search not maxed, Sense Motive 2+, Spellcraft 9+, Spot 0, Tumble, Use Magic Device 7+, Use Rope 8.
    Abilities: Rogue class abilities; two special rogue abilities, both spent on a feat.
    Items: Two gemstones, 8 Bags of Holding, towel, hair dryer, rope, +5 Air Freshener of Pineness, a lot of clothes, bedroll, +5 longbow of Icy Burst, Crystal's +4 blade, magic leather armor, dyed Boots of Speed (forum), at least 200,000 gp in cash, trowel, metal detector, Bleedingham papers, 4+ quivers of green arrows including silver and cold iron, three potions (since Belkar took one), thief's tools, wands, bag of copper pieces (SSDT).

    Vaarsuvius
    True Neutral (forum), Elf ambiguously gendered Wizard: Evoker (DCF) 16 (forum).
    Str 5-9 (can carry Yukyuk, and strength penalty).
    Dex <12 (no real attack bonus on rays, forum).
    Con 8-12 (required to have enough HP to survive the fight against Xykon; also, lacks a decent con, forum; and lower than Haley).
    Int 24 (forum).
    Wis 10-11 (moderate, forum).
    Cha 6-9 (can return as a ghost, and without any charisma).
    Age: 131+ (WXP).
    Feats (11+): Alertness, Empower Spell, Extend Spell (SSDT), Maximize Spell (SSDT), Quicken Spell, Scribe Scroll (wizard bonus feat), not Silent Spell (forum), not Still Spell.
    Skills (108+): Appraise +3 (from familiar), Concentrate, Craft: Alchemy, Decipher Script (SSDT), Knowledge: Arcana, Knowledge: Religion not high (forum), Ride 0, Spot 0, Search 0, Speak Language: elf (racial), raven, not draconic (SSDT), Spellcraft, , Use Magic Device 2+.
    Abilities: Elf racial abilities, familiar: Blackwing, share spells with familiar, scry on familiar, barred schools: Conjuration and Necromancy (forum; also by elimination).
    Items: Headband of Intellect +4 (required to cast four 6th-level spells with a base int of 18 at level 11), doily, Ring of Wizardry III or IV, two small gemstones, many scrolls and spellbooks, Finding Plot Holes for Dummies, twelve more books, jar of diamond dust, Bleedingham papers, defensive potions, Tarquin's whip, Orange Prism Ioun Stone, two potions (SSDT), apricot-scented face gel (SSDT), chalice (SSDT).
    Spells: Arcane Eye, Banishment, Bull's Strength, Bugsby's Cat-Retrieving Hand, Bugsby's Clenched Fist, Bugsby's Expressive Single Digit, Bugsby's Flicking Finger, Bugsby's Grasping Hand, Chain Lightning, Charm Monster, Cone of Cold, Crushing Despair, Detect Magic, Dimensional Anchor, Disintegrate, Dispel Magic, Distant Inferno (OOPC), Dominate Person, Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion, Expeditious Retreat, Explosive Runes, Feather Fall, Fireball, Fire Trap, Flamefinger (OOPC), Forcecage, Fly, Greater Dispel Magic, Greater Invisibility (SSDT), Gust of Wind, Haste, Heroism, Hold Monster (SSDT), Hold Person, Hold Portal, Identify, Invisibility, discount Invisibility Sphere, Lightning Bolt, Magic Missile, Mass Bear's Endurance. Mass Bull's Strength, Mass Enlarge Person, Overland Flight usable on others, Owl's Wisdom, Passwall, Polymorph, Power Word Blind, Power Word Stun, Prestidigitation, Prismatic Spray, Protection from Arrows, Resilient Sphere, Scorching Ray, See Invisibility, Sending, Silent Image, Sleep, Stinking Cloud (DCF), Stoneskin, Stone to Flesh, Suggestion, Summon Plot Hole (SWMU), True Seeing, Vaarsuvius' Enhanced Scrying, Vaarsuvius' Greater Animal Messenger, Vampiric Touch, Veil, Wall of Fire, at least one sonic spell.

    Blackwing (Common name)
    Raven male, familiar.
    Str 1 (racial).
    Dex 15 (racial).
    Con 10 (racial).
    Int 13 (familiar).
    Wis 14 (racial).
    Cha 6 (racial).
    Feats: Alertness, Weapon Finesse (racial bonus feats).
    Skills: Listen +5, Spot +7 (racial skills), can use Vaarsuvius's skill ranks (familiar).
    Abilities: Flight, low-light vision (both racial abilities); natural armor +8, improved evasion, empathic link, deliver touch spells, speak with birds, spell resistance 18 (all familiar abilities).
    Items: Bauble, sombrero, fake beard and mustache, wand.
    Last edited by Kurald Galain; 2014-02-08 at 11:14 AM.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
    Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Probably unnecessary placeholder. Next posts are for Oceanic.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
    Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Team Evil

    Xykon, pseudonym (SOD)
    Chaotic (forum) Evil, Human male lich, Sorcerer 21+
    Con n/a (undead).
    Int ~15 (no evidence, age and lichdom).
    Wis ~15 (no evidence, age and lichdom).
    Cha 28+ (casts seven 9th-level spells in one combat, SOD).
    Age: 111+ (WXP).
    Feats (13+): Maximize Spell, Still Spell, Epic Spellcasting, at least one craft feat.
    Skills (46+): Bluff, Concentration (required to cast while grappled), Spellcraft 24+, Knowledge: Arcana 24+ (required for Epic Spellcasting), Reverse Psychology 2+, Speak Language: Draconic (NCPB); +8 racial bonus on Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot checks.
    Abilities: Fear aura, paralyzing touch, turn resistance, damage reduction (SOD), immunity to cold, electricity, polymorph, and mind-affecting attacks (all lich abilities).
    Items: Soul gem (SOD), Serini's diary, Widescreen crystal ball, Teevo, crown that radiates evil, Dorukan's headband, unspecified item that gives fire immunity, Ring of Protection that gives deflection bonus.
    Spells: Animate Dead, Animate Dead Animal (SOD), Cloister, Cloudkill, Contingency, Energy Drain, Epic Mage Armor, Finger of Death, Ghostform, Greater Invisibility, Greater Teleport, Invisibility (SOD), Lightning Bolt, Magic Missile, Mass Hold Person, Meteor Swarm, Otiluke's Resilient Sphere, Overland Flight, Ray of Frost, Shatter, Soul Bind (SOD), Stoneskin, Superb Dispelling, Symbol of Insanity, Symbol of Pain, Teleport, Xykon's Moderately Escapable Forcecage, unspecified summoning spell, unspecified fire spell, unspecified spell that enables travel to the Astral Plane.

    Redcloak, pseudonym (SOD)
    Lawful (required for Law domain) Evil (SOD), Goblin male, Cleric (SOD) 17 (can cast 9th spells).
    Str ~8 (no evidence, racial).
    Dex ~12 (no evidence, racial).
    Wis 20+ (based on saving throw difficulty class).
    Cha 12+ (required to use Rebuke Undead four times per day).
    Age: 55+ (WXP), does not age physically (SOD).
    Feats (5+): Craft Wondrous Item (Xykon's phylactery in SOD), Extend Spell.
    Skills (36+): Diplomacy (SOD), Knowledge: Chemistry, Speak Language (Goblin) Does not speak Draconic (NCPB).
    Abilities: Goblin racial abilities, Rebuke Undead, Command Undead, Destruction domain (required to cast Disintegrate) and Law domain (required to cast Hold Monster, SOD).
    Items: The Crimson Mantle, backup unholy symbol, Book of Vile Darkness, Fiend Folio, Monster Manual II, eye patch, spyglass, Xykon's Phylactery, Arcane half of the Snarl Ritual, Ring of protection from level drain
    Spells: standard cleric list, plus domain spells as listed above, plus Unseal, Greater Obscure Object, Superior Resistance, Hardening

    Tsukiko (deceased)
    Neutral Evil, Human female, Wizard: Necromancer (forum) 3+ / Cleric 3+ (required for Mystic Theurge) / Mystic Theurge 6+, and two more levels of either Wizard or Mystic Theurge (required to cast 6th-level wizard spells).
    Int 16+ (required to cast Create Undead as a wizard).
    Wis 15+ (required to cast Flame Strike as a cleric).
    Feats (6+): Scribe Scroll (wizard bonus feat), Quicken Spell.
    Skills (42+): Knowledge: Arcana 6+, Knowledge: Religion 6+ (required for Mystic Theurge).
    Abilities: Rebuke Undead, two unknown domains, barred school (forum): Abjuration (by elimination).
    Items: Spellbook (wizard feature), unholy symbol (required to cast Flame Strike), Xykon plushie, Xykon portrait, various books and scrolls, quill.
    Spells: standard cleric list, plus wizard spells Cold Orb, Create Undead, Dominate Person, Electric Orb, Fire Orb, Fireball, Fly, Invisibility, Lesser Acid Orb, Lightning Bolt, Mind Fog, Shout, Teleport, Tsukiko's Amazing Wight-Making Spell (forum).

    Monster In The Darkness
    Please see this thread for details.


    The Linear Guild

    Nale (Deceased)
    Lawful Evil, Human male, Fighter / Rogue 2+ (required for Evasion) / Sorcerer 8+ (required to cast Dimension Door); total level 15 (Hit by Holy Word).
    Str <19 (same as Elan, forum).
    Dex 13-17 (same as Elan).
    Con ?? (same as Elan).
    Int 13+ (For Combat Expertise).
    Cha 15+ (required to cast Sending).
    Age: 22+ (same as Elan).
    Skills: Bluff.
    Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm.
    Abilities: Rogue class abilities.
    Items: Longsword, Linear Guild Business Cards, wand of Enervation, Elixirs of Negative Energy protection.
    Spells: Charm Person, Dimension Door, Expeditious Retreat, Invisibility, Prestidigitation, Suggestion.

    Sabine
    Evil, Succubus female, Racial hit dice 6 / Level adjustment 6 / Rogue (NCPB) 3+ (at least as high as her personal rival Haley).
    Dex ~13 (no evidence, racial).
    Con ~13 (no evidence, racial).
    Int 9+ (higher than Thog, lower than Nale, forum).
    Wis ~14 (no evidence, racial).
    Cha ~26 (no evidence, racial).
    Age: 2000+ (NCPB).
    Abilities: Flight, change shape, energy drain, charm monster, detect good, detect thoughts, ethereal jaunt, suggestion, greater teleport: self plus 50 pounds of objects, summon demon, damage reduction 10 / cold iron or good, darkvision, electricity and poison immunity, acid cold and fire resistance, spell resistance 18, telepathy, tongues; plane shift 1/day (all racial abilities), rogue class abilities, doesn't grow tired.
    Items: Cellphone

    Thog
    Non-lawful (required for rage) Evil, Half-Orc male, Fighter 2 / Barbarian 9+ (required to have 3 attacks a round).
    Str 14+ (his highest ability score).
    Int <8 (racial, dump stat).
    Wis <10 (abysmal will save).
    Cha ~8 (no evidence, racial).
    Age: 17+ (WXP).
    Feats (3+): Power Attack.
    Skills (6+): Jump.
    Abilities: Dungeoncrasher alternative class feature (forum), half-orc racial abilities, barbarian class abilities.

    Zz'dtri (Deceased)
    Neutral Evil Drow male, Wizard: Transmuter (DCF) 15 (deafened by Holy Word).
    Dex ~12 (no evidence, racial).
    Con ~8 (no evidence, racial).
    Int 17+ (required to cast Plane Shift).
    Cha ~12 (no evidence, racial).
    Feats (9+): Lightning Reflexes, Scribe Scroll (wizard bonus feat), Silent Spell (forum), Boost Spell Resistance, unspecified feat that increases Spell Resistance, Empower Spell.
    Skills: Speak Language: Drow Sign Language
    Abilities: Spell Resistance 28+ (racial, at least +4 from feats and an item); drow racial abilities; barred schools: Enchantment, Necromancy (by elimination).
    Items: Spellbook (wizard feature), unspecified item that boosts Spell Resistance.
    Spells: Baleful Polymorph, Break Enchantment, Dimension Door, Disguise Self, Flesh to Stone, Fly (3.0 version), Greater Dispel Magic, Gust of Wind, Locate Object, Magic Circle Against Evil, Phantasmal Killer, Planar Binding, Plane Shift, Protection from Energy, Scrying, Shield, Teleport, Vitriolic Sphere, Wall of Ice, unspecified lightning spell.

    Hilgya Firehelm
    Non-lawful (worships the god of chaos) Evil (DCF), Dwarf female, Cleric of Loki 7+ (required to cast Restoration).
    Wis 14+ (required to cast Restoration).
    Skills: Speak Language (Dwarven)
    Abilities: Dwarf racial abilities, Fire domain, one unknown domain.
    Items: Horned helmet, armor, shield, holy symbol (required to use rebuke ability).

    Yikyik (deceased)
    Chaotic Evil (same as Belkar, DCF), Kobold male, Ranger (DCF).
    Str ~6 (no evidence, racial).
    Dex 12+ (gets additional attack from Combat Reflexes).
    Con ~8 (no evidence, racial).
    Feats: Combat Reflexes, Track (ranger bonus feat).
    Skills: Speak Language (Draconic)
    Abilities: Ranger class abilities.
    Items: Dagger.

    Leeky Windstaff
    Neutral Evil, Gnome male, Druid 13+ (required to cast Fire Storm).
    Str ~8 (no evidence, racial).
    Con ~12 (no evidence, racial).
    Wis 17+ (required to cast Fire Storm).
    Feats (5+): Leadership.
    Abilities: Gnome racial abilities, druid class abilities, animal companion (hawk "Kitty", deceased).

    Pompey
    Neutral Evil, Half-Elf male, Wizard: Conjurer 5+ (required to cast Still Silent Animate Rope).
    Int 14+ (required to cast four 2nd-level spells per day).
    Age: 44+.
    Feats (3+): Scribe scroll (wizard bonus feat), Silent Spell, Still Spell.
    Skills (35+): Knowledge: Arcana.
    Abilities: Half-elf racial abilities, barred schools: evocation and enchantment.
    Items: Spellbook (wizard feature).
    Spells: Animate Rope, Summon Monster I, Summon Monster II, at least 5 touch-range buff spells -- lowest-level possibilities are Mage Armor, Protection from Good, Protection from Law, Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance.

    Yokyok (deceased)
    Kobold male.
    Str ~6 (no evidence, racial).
    Dex ~12 (no evidence, racial).
    Con ~8 (no evidence, racial).
    Skills: Speak Language (Draconic)
    Items: Rapier.

    Yukyuk (Deceased)
    Kobold male, Ranger 4+ (required for an animal companion) / Rogue.
    Str ~6 (no evidence, racial).
    Dex ~12 (no evidence, racial).
    Con ~8 (no evidence, racial).
    Abilities: Ranger and rogue class abilities, animal companion (riding dog "Sir Scraggly").
    Feats (4+): Endurance, Track (ranger bonus feats).
    Skills: Speak Language (Draconic)
    Items: Two Crossbows of Quick Loading.
    Last edited by RMS Oceanic; 2013-11-13 at 01:52 AM.
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    The Sapphire Guard

    Hinjo
    Lawful Good, Human male, Paladin 11-12 (three attacks per round, but was lower level than Roy during the battle at Azure City, and hasn't leveled up since).
    Cha 12+ (required for Lay On Hands).
    Age: 26+ (WXP).
    Abilities: Paladin class abilities, Summon Conscience, paladin mount: dire wolf "Argent".
    Items: Cold-iron katana, silvered katana; magic boots, cloak and armor (WXP).

    Lien
    Lawful Good, Human female, Paladin 12+ (higher level than Hinjo).
    Str 13+ (required for Cleave).
    Int 10+ (good, not dumb).
    Cha 12+ (required for Lay On Hands).
    Age: 29+ (three years older than Hinjo, DSTP).
    Feats (6+): Cleave, Power Attack (prerequisite for Cleave), Weapon Focus: Longspear.
    Abilities: Paladin class abilities, paladin mount: large shark "Razor".
    Items: Longspear; magic boots, cloak and armor (WXP); ring of waterbreathing (DSTP).

    Miko Miyazaki (deceased)
    Lawful Good, Human female, Monk 2+ / Fallen Paladin 10+ (three main-hand attacks per round, and higher level than Hinjo).
    Str 13+ (required for Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Katana; the DMG states that a katana is a masterwork bastard sword; wielding it in one hand requires a feat, wielding it in two hands does not).
    Dex 17+ (required for Improved Two-Weapon Fighting).
    Wis 11+ (required to cast Cure Light Wounds in the Miko fight).
    Cha 12+ (required for Lay On Hands).
    Age: 28+ (WXP).
    Feats (6+): Cleave, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Katana, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (two off-hand attacks per round), Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Quick Draw, Stunning Fist, Track, Two-Weapon Fighting (prerequisite for ITWF).
    Skills (30+): Knowledge: the Planes, Spellcraft 0, Survival +1.
    Abilities: Monk class abilities, unavailable paladin mount: horse "Windstriker".
    Items: Magic boots, cloak and armor (WXP); katana, wakizashi.

    O-Chul
    Lawful Good, Human male, Fighter / Paladin 3+ (has Aura of Courage), total level 12+ (higher than Hinjo).
    Str 11+ (can carry Vaarsuvius).
    Con ~25 (WXP).
    Cha <10 (dump stat).
    Age: 29+ (fighter for twelve years, and minimum age for a fighter is 16).
    Skills (45+): Bluff 0, Spellcraft, Swim.
    Abilities: Paladin class abilities.

    Shojo (deceased)
    Chaotic Good, Human male, Aristocrat 14.
    Str / Dex / Con ~4 (no evidence, age).
    Int / Wis / Cha ~13 (no evidence, age).
    Age: 72+ (WXP).
    Feats (6): Improved Paranoia.
    Skills (68+): Bluff, Perform (puppetry).

    Team Tarquin

    Tarquin
    Lawful Evil, Human male, level 21+ (for Infinite Deflection).
    Str 16+ (can carry Nale).
    Con ~9 (no evidence, age).
    Dex 25+ (required for Infinite Deflection).
    Int, Wis, Cha ~11 (no evidence, age).
    Age: 51+ (adventuring for 35 years).
    Feats: Quick draw, [Dodge and Sidestep Charge or Robilar's Gambit], Improved Unarmed Strike, Deflect Arrows, Snatch Arrows, Combat Reflexes, Infinite Deflection, Improved Grapple, Power Attack, Improved Sunder
    Skills: Speak Language: Drow Sign Language, Ride, Spellcraft, Spot
    Abilities: Evasion
    Items: Dagger, helmet, two Rings of Regeneration, Ring of True Seeing, Glamoured Armor, mask that says "Nope" on it, whip, Extra Strength Keoghtum Ointment.

    Malack (Deceased), pseudonym
    Evil, Lizardfolk male vampire, Cleric of Nergal 12 (required for Craft Staff, but no higher spells).
    Age: 200+.
    Str ~18 (no evidence, racial).
    Con n/a (undead).
    Dex ~14 (no evidence, racial).
    Int ~10 (no evidence, racial).
    Wis 20+ (from spells per day).
    Cha ~14 (no evidence, racial).
    Skills: Speak Language (Draconic)
    Feats (5+): Craft Staff, Quicken Spell; Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes (all vampire bonus feats).
    Abilities: Vampire abilities, Cleric Domains (Death and Destruction).
    Items: Holy Symbol.
    Spells: Standard cleric list, plus Death and Destruction domain spells, Protection from Daylight.

    Laurin Shattersmith
    Evil Human Female, Psion 13+ (To be level drained but still manifest Disintegrate)
    Str, Dex, Con ~7 (No evidence, age)
    Int 16+ (To manifest Disintegrate)
    Wis, Cha ~12 (No evidence, age)
    Age: 58+
    Items: Headband, Red Ioun Stone, Green Ioun Stone, Orange Ioun Stone
    Powers Known: Body Adjustment,
    Control Body, Dimension Door, Disintegrate, Dispel Psionics, Specified Energy Adaptation, Mental Disruption, Mind Probe, Telekinetic Force, Unspecified Attack Power, Wormhole

    Miron Shewdanker
    Evil Human Male, [Wizard 15+ or Sorcerer 16+] (To cast Horrid Wilting)
    Str, Dex ~9 (No evidence, age)
    Con 6+
    Int [18+ or ~11]
    Wis ~11 (No evidence, age)
    Cha [~11 or 18+]
    (Intelligence or Charisma depends on which class he is)
    Age: 38+
    Spells Known: Baleful Polymorph, Contingency, Greater Dispel Magic, Horrid Wilting, Teleport, Unspecified Defensive Spell

    Kilkil
    Lawful Neutral Winged Kobold male, level 5-10 (paralyzed by Holy Word).
    Str ~6 (no evidence, racial).
    Dex ~12 (no evidence, racial).
    Con ~8 (no evidence, racial).
    Items: Glasses.
    Skills: Speak Language (Draconic)
    Abilities: Flight.
    Last edited by RMS Oceanic; 2014-01-09 at 08:22 AM.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    The Order of the Scribble

    Soon Kim (Deceased)
    Lawful Good, Human Sacred Watcher Male, Paladin 21+ (Low Epic).
    Str 13+ (For EWP (Katana))
    Con n/a (Deathless)
    Cha ~14 (No Evidence, Sacred Watcher)
    Abilities: Flight, Paladin Abilities, Sacred Watcher Abilities, Deathless Abilities
    Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Katana)
    Skills:
    Items: Enchanted Armor, Katana.
    Spells: Standard Paladin Spells.

    Lirian (deceased, SoD)
    Neutral Good, Female elf Druid 21+ (Low Epic).
    Dex ~12 (no evidence, elf).
    Con ~8 (no evidence, elf).
    Wis 19+ (required to cast Shapechange, SoD)
    Skills: Speak Language (Elven, Druidic)
    Feats:
    Items:
    Spells: Standard Druid, plus Divine Half of the Rift Sealing Ritual, Divine Half of the Gate Building Ritual, Guardian Virus and Guardian Virus Innoculation

    Dorukan (Deceased, SoD)
    Neutral Good, Human Wizard 21+.
    Str/Dex/Con ~4 (No evidence, age)
    Int 19+ (required to cast Gate)
    Age: 71+
    Skills: Spellcraft 24+, Knowledge (Arcana) 24+ (For Epic Spellcasting)
    Feats: Scribe Scroll (wizard bonus feat), Craft Wonderous Item, Epic Spellcasting
    Spells: Anti-Second Edition Ward, Arcane Half of the Rift Sealing Ritual, Arcane Half of the Gate Building Ritual, Cloister, Unspecified Conjuration (Calling) spell, "Pure Heart" Ward, Sending, Teleport, Prismatic Spray, Meteor Swarm, Gate, Scrying, Unspecified Fire Spell

    Girard Draketooth (deceased)
    Black Dragon-blooded Human male, Ranger 2/Sorceror 19+ (Low Epic).
    Cha 19+ (required to cast Microcosm)
    Feats: Track, Two-Weapon Fighting, not Epic Spellcasting.
    Spells: Microcosm, Recorded Message/Booby Trap, Invisibility Spell, Other Illusions

    Serini Toormuck
    Halfling female, Rogue 21+ (Low Epic).
    Str ~5 (no evidence, halfling, age)
    Dex ~9 (no evidence, halfling, age)
    Con ~7 (no evidence, age)
    Int/Wis/Cha ~12 (No evidence, age)
    Abilities: Halfling abilities, Rogue abilities
    Skills:
    Feats:
    Items: Shortbow

    Kraagor (Deceased)
    Non-lawful, Dwarf Male, Barbarian
    Dex ~8 (no evidence, dwarf)
    Con ~12 (no evidence, dwarf)
    Int 8+ (Doesn't use Thog-speak)
    Abilities: Dwarf abilities, Barbarian abilities
    Skills: Speak Language (Dwarven)
    Feats:
    Items: Axe


    Family and other characters

    Celia
    Lawful Good (DSTP), Sylph female, 6+ HD (required to cast Lightning Bolt).
    Cha 16+ (required to cast four 3rd-level spells in a day).
    Age: 22+ (WXP).
    Abilities: Flight, cast sorcerer spells as a caster of a level equal to her HD, shoot lightning out of her fingers (all racial abilities).
    Skills (36+): Spellcraft.
    Items: Black eyeliner pencil, cell phone, 'feeblemind causing' blue dress.
    Spells: Alter Self, Lightning Bolt, either Fog Cloud or Obscuring Mist, no necromancy spells.

    Eugene Greenhilt (deceased, OOPC)
    Lawful Good (SOD), Human male ghost, Wizard: Illusionist 11+ (required to cast Permanent Image).
    Str/Dex ~4 (no evidence, age).
    Con n/a (undead).
    Int 16+ (required to cast Permanent Image).
    Wis ~13 (no evidence, age).
    Cha 6+ (required to become a ghost).
    Age: 81+ (WXP).
    Feats (8+): Scribe Scroll (wizard bonus feat).
    Items: Spellbook (wizard feature).
    Spells: Detect Scrying, Fly (SOD), Invisibility Sphere, Minor Image (OOPC), Permanent Image, Summon Boot, Teleport (SOD), unspecified chair conjuration (OOPC), unspecified fire spell.

    Julia Greenhilt
    True Neutral, Human female, Wizard 3.
    Int 15+ (required to cast Sending from a scroll).
    Age: 17+ (five years younger than Nale).
    Feats (4): Scribe Scroll (wizard bonus feat).
    Spells: Feather Fall, Magic Missile.

    Samantha (deceased)
    Evil (NCPB), Human female, Sorcerer 12 (required to cast exactly three 6th level spells in a day).
    Cha 16-21 (required to cast Chain Lightning, but has no bonus spells at level 6). Also, her charisma is higher than Haley's.
    Age: 18.
    Feats (5): Maximize Spell, not Silent Spell, not Still Spell.
    Spells: Chain Lightning, Fireball, Fly, Hold Person, Lightning Bolt, Magic Missile, Protection From Arrows.

    Qarr
    Lawful Evil, Imp male, Sorcerer 8-10 (required to cast Charm Monster, and to get only two Scorching Rays).
    Dex ~17 (no evidence, racial).
    Wis ~12 (no evidence, racial).
    Cha 14+ (required to cast Charm Monster).
    Feats (5+): Dodge, Weapon Finesse (racial bonus feats).
    Abilities: Flight, poison, detect good, detect magic, invisibility: self, suggestion 1/day, commune 1/week, alternate form, damage reduction 5/good or silver, darkvision, fast healing, poison immunity, fire resistance; greater teleport: self plus 50 pounds of objects, plane shift, summon devil (all racial abilities);
    Spells: Charm Monster, Lesser Telepathic Bond or Telepathic Bond, Lightning Bolt, Scorching Ray, Extraplanar Phone Connection.
    Last edited by RMS Oceanic; 2013-11-13 at 01:52 AM.
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Probably unnecessary placeholder. Next posts are for Oceanic.
    I was so close to posting "so will it screw things up if I post now?" but I figured I'd play nice and wait 'til Oceanic had a chance to post.
    Last edited by Tass; 2013-10-30 at 01:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Quote Originally Posted by Tass View Post
    I was so close to posting "so will it screw things up if I post now?" but I figured I'd play nice and wait 'til Oceanic had a chance to post.
    Good for you, otherwise we'd have dispatched a squad of Toxic Dragon Chipmunks to your house!
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    So I guess my first question would be: Do the other characters look better spread out like that? Should I change the order of which they're presented? Should spoiler tags be used more often to hide "dormant" characters? Who would they be?
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Quote Originally Posted by RMS Oceanic View Post
    So I guess my first question would be: Do the other characters look better spread out like that? Should I change the order of which they're presented? Should spoiler tags be used more often to hide "dormant" characters? Who would they be?
    I'm generally against spoiler tags, because they make it require more work to find what you're looking for.

    I would suggest listing the various groups in the order in which they appear in the comic, so Team Evil - Linear Guild - Sapphire Guard - Scribble - Tarquin - miscellaneous. I suppose the best ordering within a group is alphabetically with the leader at the top (e.g. Roy - Belkar - Durkon - Elan...), and I don't think there's much point any more in the distinction between current-and-former members of the Linear Guild.

    $.02
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Reading through 904, how does it indicate that Elan is level 15? The justification for making him level 15 is that he ought to be the same level as Nale, who is shown to be level 15 by 860. Thus, should not 860, and not 904, prove that Elan is level 15?

    904 does suggest to us that Elan still has only 13 levels of Bard; if he had a fourteenth level, he'd have swapped out one of his spells for another cure spell like he had planned, so he would not have been out of healing. So we can cite 904 as proof that Elan is Bard 13/Dashing Swordsman 2, having first accepted that he has 15 levels, but we cannot cite it as proof that he has 15 levels.
    Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2013-10-30 at 01:53 PM.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Quote Originally Posted by Solan View Post
    Has the possibility of Tarquin being a swordsage been discussed?
    This question was made at the end of the other thread, so I felt compelled to answer: yes, it has been discussed.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Does anyone have a sense of what power Laurin is using in 927 to hold Roy?
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    and I don't think there's much point any more in the distinction between current-and-former members of the Linear Guild.
    Ditto this.
    Spoiler: Quotes
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Also, as a rule of thumb, if you find yourself defending your inalienable right to make someone else feel like garbage, you're on the wrong side of the argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by oppyu View Post
    There is nothing more emblematic of this forum than three or four pages of debate between people who, as it turns out, pretty much agree with each other.


    Check this game out! Or at least give it a thumbs up.
    Why "because the plot said so" is not a good answer.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Quote Originally Posted by AKA_Bait View Post
    Does anyone have a sense of what power Laurin is using in 927 to hold Roy?
    I've seen Porthos bandy telekinetic maneuver about.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    I've seen Porthos bandy telekinetic maneuver about.
    Another option is Control Body.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Quote Originally Posted by RMS Oceanic View Post
    Laurin.jpg Laurin Shattersmith
    Human Female, Psion 17+ (To manifest Wormhole)
    I really don't think we have enough information to flag Wormhole as a 9th level power. In fact, given the structure of the 2nd edition science it seems to be updated from, a lower level power that has been heavily augmented would seem more consistent.

    We can do math based on the 2nd edition version of the science/power.
    Doing so (and counting fewer iterations of wormhole than the previous geekery thread seems have counted up), I arrived at a minimum level of 18 for a 2nd edition character to have sufficient PSP to match her wormhole usage.

    To complete the conversion though, we would have to have to account somehow for the difference in how bonus PSP scaled vs how bonus PP scale.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramien View Post
    Another option is Control Body.
    Control Body is the one I had been thinking about. I'm wondering if the power isn't expected to hold the person up though. I can't quite tell from panel 4 whether Roy is resting on top of the dino's horn or is being levitated.

    The problem I see with Telekinetic Maneuver is that it seems to require physical contact and Laurin doesn't look to be touching Roy.
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramien View Post
    Another option is Control Body.
    If she is a nomad (given her spamming of Wormhole, it's a decent enough bet), that would have required her to go 'off list' for two separate powers. Read Thoughts/Mind Probe (I think it is far likelier to be the former than the later, given the circumstances and Nale wanting to protect secrets but not minding 'surface thoughts' to be had) and this one.

    I can see her using Expanded Knowledge once to pick up another power. But twice? That seems a stretch. Sure, there are other ways to get powers. But I still think telekinetic maneuver fits the situation as described perfectly.

    Quote Originally Posted by AKA_Bait View Post
    The problem I see with Telekinetic Maneuver is that it seems to require physical contact and Laurin doesn't look to be touching Roy.
    I hate to get into RAW/RAI, but does it actually say that? Given that range is listed as medium, I could see someone arguing that they are simply using their mind to do those options and not their body.

    If the person has to be physcially doing those things though, then I suppose it has to be Control Body. With Laurin spamming the Psychic Chirurgery loophole probably.

    ETA::: The actual statblock:

    Telekinetic Maneuver
    Psychokinesis [Force]
    Level: Psion/wilder 4
    Display: Visual
    Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./ level)
    Target: One creature
    Duration: Concentration, up to 1 round/level
    Saving Throw: None
    Power Resistance: Yes
    Power Points: 7

    You can affect a foe by concentrating your mind upon its current status and the status you desire, once per round. You can perform a bull rush, a disarm, a grapple (including a pin), or a trip. Resolve these attempts as normal, except that they don’t provoke attacks of opportunity, you use your manifester level in place of your base attack bonus (for disarm and grapple attempts), you use your Intelligence modifier in place of your Strength modifier or Dexterity modifier, and a failed attempt doesn’t allow a reactive attempt by the target (such as normally allowed on disarm or trip attempts). No save is allowed against these attempts, but power resistance applies normally.

    Augment
    For every 2 additional power points you spend, this power grants a +1 bonus on your checks involving bull rush, disarm, grapple, or trip attempts.
    My emphasis. Seems to me, especially in conjunction with range, that no one has to actually touch the person to do this. It's bascially using the power of your mind to knock someone around the battlefield
    Last edited by Porthos; 2013-10-30 at 03:31 PM.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Since "Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page" has made it as a Thread title, and I have zero clue what it does refer too, can someone enlighten me? (I think it is probably something D&D related, like you can do something really cool three times per day with lvl 11 - but that is only a guess)

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Quote Originally Posted by Porthos View Post
    I can see her using Expanded Knowledge once to pick up another power. But twice? That seems a stretch. Sure, there are other ways to get powers. But I still think telekinetic maneuver fits the situation as described perfectly.
    Fair point.

    I hate to get into RAW/RAI, but does it actually say that? Given that range is listed as medium, I could see someone arguing that they are simply using their mind to do those options and not their body.
    Looking at it again, you are entirely correct. I see now, you are suggesting that Laurin is using the power to pin Roy? That does make sense.


    Neither option seems to explain the dizzy symbol over Roy afterward, but I'm not sure that it has to as he doesn't have it while being tossed in the air.
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianSt View Post
    Since "Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page" has made it as a Thread title, and I have zero clue what it does refer too, can someone enlighten me? (I think it is probably something D&D related, like you can do something really cool three times per day with lvl 11 - but that is only a guess)
    With base attack bonus +11, you get three iterative attacks with your primary hand (at +11/+6/+1 respectively).
    Suspiciously normal.
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Quote Originally Posted by AKA_Bait View Post
    Looking at it again, you are entirely correct. I see now, you are suggesting that Laurin is using the power to pin Roy? That does make sense.
    Yep. I said Laurin was very probably pinning Roy in the last thread, but didn't mention it again here, since zimmerwald ninjaed me whilst I was making the latest iteration of the Stick Awards.
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    "Erradicated" still has an extra r.
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    And apparently always will:

    Quote Originally Posted by RMS Oceanic View Post
    The latter is deliberate: It's what I call someone who was unmade by the Snarl.

    And yes, I know it's spelt wrong; it's a reference to Might and Magic VI.
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Quote Originally Posted by Hecuba View Post
    I really don't think we have enough information to flag Wormhole as a 9th level power. In fact, given the structure of the 2nd edition science it seems to be updated from, a lower level power that has been heavily augmented would seem more consistent.

    We can do math based on the 2nd edition version of the science/power.
    Doing so (and counting fewer iterations of wormhole than the previous geekery thread seems have counted up), I arrived at a minimum level of 18 for a 2nd edition character to have sufficient PSP to match her wormhole usage.

    To complete the conversion though, we would have to have to account somehow for the difference in how bonus PSP scaled vs how bonus PP scale.
    Admission: I have never played 1/2E and am trying to parse textbooks, so my assumptions here could be horrible.

    The primary reason I think Wormhole is 9th Level is because of its functional similarity to Gate, its main difference being the permissible destination is inverted. Also Psions get Greater Teleport as a Level 8 power, so in my mind the next logical power boost is to allow travel in two directions

    In addition, the sort of augmenting to increase a Psychoportation's maximum distance and paying to maintain it over several rounds doesn't appear to exist anywhere I can see in 3.5. The best example is 2E's Dimensional Door becoming 3.5's Psionic Dimension Door: The latter's only augmentation is for manifestation time, and any difference in range is due to manifester level. In addition, Dimensional Door could be learned by a first level Psion, whereas they now need to be level 7 to get it.

    Finally the base cost of DD was 4 PSP before augmentation, where Wormhole starts at 24, indicating a significantly higher level power.

    But, if enough people think that reasoning doesn't hold water, I can correct it.
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordae View Post
    With base attack bonus +11, you get three iterative attacks with your primary hand (at +11/+6/+1 respectively).
    Thanks - that's a pretty nice bonus to have :)
    Quote Originally Posted by RMS Oceanic View Post
    So I guess my first question would be: Do the other characters look better spread out like that? Should I change the order of which they're presented? Should spoiler tags be used more often to hide "dormant" characters? Who would they be?
    I'm fine with spreading them out (personally I think I would add a bigger separator between the groups, either making the Group-name bigger/standing more out and/or adding some kind of free space/divider line between them)

    And yeah, I don't think this thread needs spoiler tags for the content (The only useful usage would imo to spoiler each group, but I don't think it is really necessary)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    I'm generally against spoiler tags, because they make it require more work to find what you're looking for.

    I would suggest listing the various groups in the order in which they appear in the comic, so Team Evil - Linear Guild - Sapphire Guard - Scribble - Tarquin - miscellaneous. I suppose the best ordering within a group is alphabetically with the leader at the top (e.g. Roy - Belkar - Durkon - Elan...), and I don't think there's much point any more in the distinction between current-and-former members of the Linear Guild.

    $.02
    I would use the same sorting type for sorting the groups and sorting within the groups. So I would list them both alphabetically or both with first appearance (with tiebreaker being alphabetically).

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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Quote Originally Posted by Porthos View Post
    If she is a nomad (given her spamming of Wormhole, it's a decent enough bet), that would have required her to go 'off list' for two separate powers. Read Thoughts/Mind Probe (I think it is far likelier to be the former than the later, given the circumstances and Nale wanting to protect secrets but not minding 'surface thoughts' to be had) and this one.

    I can see her using Expanded Knowledge once to pick up another power. But twice? That seems a stretch. Sure, there are other ways to get powers. But I still think telekinetic maneuver fits the situation as described perfectly.
    There is one problem with telekinetic maneuver: It uses the grapple rules. After the first successful grapple attempt, Roy would not be fully locked down - it would take a second grapple check to pin. (as well as two actions to actually complete the lock down).
    A secondary problem I have with both of them, looking at the descriptions, is that either one plays to Roy's strength - either a strength based grapple check or a fort save. But since both are at a disadvantage there, it's a bit of a wash.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramien View Post
    A secondary problem I have with both of them, looking at the descriptions, is that either one plays to Roy's strength - either a strength based grapple check or a fort save. But since both are at a disadvantage there, it's a bit of a wash.
    Laurin would get to use her INT mod for the grapple check though, so I don't think that's as big of a deterrent. Plus she could augment them up the wazoo.
    Last edited by Porthos; 2013-10-30 at 04:15 PM.
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