Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

[Shale]

Rich was talking about how it works in D&D as opposed to OOTS. As evidenced by the adventurers hanging around in taverns past fifth level.

[Taelas]

Except Rich has said that if a wizard of V's level wanted money, he would shift to the elemental plane of earth to grab a big diamond
Last Sentence

You've got it upside down, man. OOTS specifically DOES have high-level characters in taverns (because it's a parody) -- which Rich says is the exception as normally, high level wizards can just plane shift for cash.

(Of course, for PCs, such trips usually involve plenty of random encounters.)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Not instinctively knowing plane shift.

Why would a greedy sorcerer that wants to use the plane shift to get rich not take plane shift?

Your argument fails to be at all convincing. Everything a wizard can do with a single spell a sorcerer can do as well.

GW

[Dark Matter]

And yet Zz'dtri had plane shift and continued working for Nale because "the pay's good."

"Pay" doesn't have to mean "money". It can mean "power" or "souls" or something else we don't want to think about.

As far as "why doesn't an spell user use spell X to make money"... I don't think it works that way.

[orrion]

What would you rather do? Live in the desert for 35 years, constantly surviving several wars every 2 or 3 years, hoping to get profit, or sell a bunch of platinum every week and definitely make a profit.

What I'm saying is that nothing stops him from doing both.

[Fan67]

We don't know Miron's class.

He can easily lack Plane Shift as a known spell.
Or maybe Elemental Plane diamonds are treated like artificial diamonds here on Earth and are much cheaper than their Prime Material Plane collegues.

And another possibility comes from quote: "From the Material Plane, you can reach any other plane, though you appear 5 to 500 miles (5d%) from your intended destination." © SRD

So you can easily end up in the middle of Elder Elementals Meeting concerning recent diamond deposits disappearance. And feel pain.

[Steven]

Regardless of the likely-hood of a wizard popping off to grab diamonds, we have not seen anything that proves Miron is a sorcerer. Saying "This is what I would do/is logical to do/is the most OP thing to do" means nothing in this thread.

[Trillium]

Let's not forget, that Miron may be an NPC (though I steel consider Tarquin's party evil PCs) - and NPCs may simply have not such liberty - to easily earn the money they want. Though Miron may have Plane Shift, he may very well be unable to use it for personal enrichment simply because he is an NPC and is forced to run a cliche evil empire. Though he can easily use said Plane Shift to send enemies to Elemental Plane of Fire or Ranch Dressing or the like.

[Fan67]

Let's not forget, that Miron may be an NPC (though I steel consider Tarquin's party evil PCs) - and NPCs may simply have not such liberty - to easily earn the money they want. Though Miron may have Plane Shift, he may very well be unable to use it for personal enrichment simply because he is an NPC and is forced to run a cliche evil empire. Though he can easily use said Plane Shift to send enemies to Elemental Plane of Fire or Ranch Dressing or the like.

If anything Team Tarquin is clearly consists of NPCs.
I highly doubt OotS World is a MMORPG with many player groups.

[Deliverance]

We don't know Miron's class.

He can easily lack Plane Shift as a known spell.
Or maybe Elemental Plane diamonds are treated like artificial diamonds here on Earth and are much cheaper than their Prime Material Plane collegues.

Or maybe Elemental Plane diamonds are treated exactly like any other diamonds and some sorceror with INT for his dump stat and no understanding of economics flooded the market with diamonds, rendering them worth less than copper.

We've seen Durkon with 5000gp's worth of diamonds, and he didn't need a truck to carry them, so obviously this didn't happen, but in a world where some people can just pop out and fetch diamonds when they want to pay for something, it could happen. Set up an inter-plane mining consortium without a modern real-world understanding of economics, and before you know of it, you've destroyed the economy of nations and the market for your diamonds.

[Trillium]

If anything Team Tarquin is clearly consists of NPCs.
I highly doubt OotS World is a MMORPG with many player groups.

Well, the Order of the Scribble clearly were PCs.

And what about Rob Redblade? Is he an NPC until recruited into OotS, or is he a PC?

[Fan67]

Well, the Order of the Scribble clearly were PCs.

And what about Rob Redblade? Is he an NPC until recruited into OotS, or is he a PC?

Do you understand PC abbreviation?
Strictly speaking, Rich said there are no Players even behind OotS, and they are refered to as PCs only because they are main protagonists of the story.

P.S. And by the way, why do you care who is PC and who is NPS?

[togapika]

Forgive me if this has been asked before but is Señor Giant overly concerned with keeping the OOTS at similar levels?
Will the extra boost in effective level for Durkon mean that the other pc's get extra class levels or a template or something?

[Shale]

So far the biggest spread in levels has been 2-3, so it's entirely possible that we're seeing the first steps of the Order getting powered up for the final stages of the story. I kinda doubt it, though; it's more likely that Durkon's vampire abilities just won't matter enough (especially since he's unlikely to accumulate thralls) to put him far above the rest of the Order's high-teens mortal powers.

[Bird]

So far the biggest spread in levels has been 2-3, so it's entirely possible that we're seeing the first steps of the Order getting powered up for the final stages of the story. I kinda doubt it, though; it's more likely that Durkon's vampire abilities just won't matter enough (especially since he's unlikely to accumulate thralls) to put him far above the rest of the Order's high-teens mortal powers.

I have to agree with that. The Giant isn't going to start slapping extra levels or templates on people just because Durkon is a vampire now -- only reason he would would be if there were a storytelling reason to do so. And I don't see that.

(Of course, that doesn't mean that the others won't level up as normal -- and Durkon probably won't, because of his higher ECL.)

And anyway, as fun as the vampire template is, it's not as though Durkon got extra caster levels, which would be a much bigger deal.

[Chronos]

If anything, the vampirization is a convenient trick to prevent Durkon from gaining more spell progression. Ninth-level spells are (by design) ludicrously overpowered, and it becomes much harder to tell a good story when the heroes have them.

[Taelas]

I feel it may be prudent to point out that the Giant is on record as saying that the Order isn't going to win by levelling up until they are at an appropriate level for a challenge like Xykon, anyway.

If you expect them to become dramatically stronger than they are now, I fear you will be disappointed.

[Living Oxymoron]

If anything, the vampirization is a convenient trick to prevent Durkon from gaining more spell progression. Ninth-level spells are (by design) ludicrously overpowered, and it becomes much harder to tell a good story when the heroes have them.

Say that to Vaarsuvius, he is very close to attain this spell level.

[Crusher]

Say that to Vaarsuvius, he is very close to attain this spell level.

Close to 18? No, s/he's not. AFAIK s/he's currently level 15 though I wouldn't be surprised if s/he earns enough XP today to level (assuming s/he survives and all).

[Living Oxymoron]

Close to 18? No, s/he's not. AFAIK s/he's currently level 15 though I wouldn't be surprised if s/he earns enough XP today to level (assuming s/he survives and all).

Close to 17, actually. 18 is for Sorcerers.

[b_jonas]

I'd like to ask the thread maintainer again to add Haley's two big gemstones.

Edit: now done, thanks.

[Codyage]

V has in excess of 25 spells left. Can we get a count on all the spells done today, and see if they match up?

The number of spells left over, may be able to tell what level V is right now.

[Shale]

V is now the proud owner of an orange Ioun Stone. By RAW the only orange stone is the orange prism, which gives +1 caster level.

[RMS Oceanic]

V has in excess of 25 spells left. Can we get a count on all the spells done today, and see if they match up?

The number of spells left over, may be able to tell what level V is right now.

We also need help identifying the powers Laurin used in this fight, so we could get a rough estimate for her power points and therefore level. Although that may still be hard without a definitive answer on Wormhole.

[RickDaily12]

We also need help identifying the powers Laurin used in this fight, so we could get a rough estimate for her power points and therefore level. Although that may still be hard without a definitive answer on Wormhole.

We don't have a definitive? Are you sure?

Because Sabine just said that Laurin would be using "big guns, and often". Gee, I wonder what that would be?

I'm sorry, but I think we now have an answer for Wormhole. If it is not an augmentable lower level, then I think we can select its opposing level 8/level 9 alternative.

QED.

[SavageWombat]

The Sphere-breaker was clearly Disintegrate - green beam. I don't think she used any powers this fight we haven't already seen.

[137beth]

We don't have a definitive? Are you sure?

Because Sabine just said that Laurin would be using "big guns, and often". Gee, I wonder what that would be?

I'm sorry, but I think we now have an answer for Wormhole. If it is not an augmentable lower level, then I think we can select its opposing level 8/level 9 alternative.

QED.

Huh? How does "big guns" mean that it somehow has to be an 8th or 9th level power? It could still just as easily be augmentable...
and, of course, if she were only 11th level, then 5th level powers would be "big guns". Sorry, your wanting her to be 18th level doesn't make it so.

[RMS Oceanic]

The Sphere-breaker was clearly Disintegrate - green beam. I don't think she used any powers this fight we haven't already seen.

Actually, I think the power she uses against Cone of Cold is Energy Adaptation, or probably Specific Energy Adaptation if we want to assume minimal levels. It has an augmentation to let you manifest it as an immediate action, which fits with Laurin's use of it.

[RickDaily12]

You think so? Go ahead then, calculate Wormhole as 6th, then. If that's her big guns ...then she is at least caster level 17. And we are back to missing 9th powers.

I'm sorry, Ben, but we're far beyond discussing possibilities at this point. This is now canon statement consistency- which is flat out wrong if you keep arguing Wormhole as low as you are.

[RMS Oceanic]

You think so? Go ahead then, calculate Wormhole as 6th, then. If that's her big guns...

...then she is at least caster level 17. And we are back to missing 9th powers.

I'm sorry, Ben, but we're far beyond discussing possibilities at this point. This is now canon statement consistency- which is flat out wrong if you keep arguing Wormhole as low as you are... For what purpose, again?

Careful with the tone, Rick. Getting a touch aggressive.

The question is, can we assume "big guns" to mean "highest level power"? If so, this fits with her spamming Wormhole in rapid succession. Since she is a minimum level of 13, this suggests Wormhole is at least a level seven power. So we can plug this into the computer and see what it prints out.

Of course, that all depends on whether we think that's a valid interpretation of "big guns".