Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

[CaDzilla]

\what does the acronym "SWMU" mean? It's next to summon plothole

[zimmerwald1915]

For characters of low intelligence, should we set their intelligence score as at least 3-8?

3-9. Ability score penalties start at 9.

Good catch. Any character with an alignment has an Intelligence of at least 3, and Elan has at least 4 (because it's higher than Thog's).

So 4-9.

[Bird]

I don't understand the rationale for declaring Elan smarter than Thog. Is it really just because Thog called Elan smart?

Mind, based on presentation I agree that Elan is smarter, but the evidence seems flimsy given the usual standards of this thread. (Same goes for any other characters pegged as having a better-than-Thog INT.)

Pegging 'low' INT as 3-9 seems fine, though that's already established by the RAW. (An animal has an Intelligence score of 1 or 2. A creature of humanlike intelligence has a score of at least 3. )

[rodneyAnonymous]

I don't understand the rationale for declaring Elan smarter than Thog. Is it really just because Thog called Elan smart?

This evidence might not be "hard" enough for this thread, but extremely low INT is often (always?) portrayed in the comic (as many things are) through speech bubbles: speaking in bold type indicates very low, speaking without capital letters indicates even lower, and bad grammar indicates even lower than that.

(e.g. Thog, the island orcs, many ogres, Kraggor, Enor... note that Kraggor uses capital letters and his grammar is markedly better than Thog's, I would peg his INT as slightly higher, maybe 4-5, and Elan's as higher than that, maybe 6-9.)

[zimmerwald1915]

This evidence might not be "hard" enough for this thread, but extremely low INT is often (always?) portrayed in the comic (as many things are) through speech bubbles: speaking in bold type indicates very low, speaking without capital letters indicates even lower, and bad grammar indicates even lower than that.

(e.g. Thog, the island orcs, many ogres, Kraggor, Enor... note that Kraggor uses capital letters and his grammar is markedly better than Thog's, I would peg his INT as slightly higher, maybe 4-5, and Elan's as higher than that, maybe 6-9.)

NB: This scheme gives Crystal around Elan-level intelligence.

[rodneyAnonymous]

NB: This scheme gives Crystal around Elan-level intelligence.

And what, exactly, would the problem with that be?

(Also, why?)

[zimmerwald1915]

And what, exactly, would the problem with that be?

Nothing, really. Just thought it worth pointing out, hence the "NB" tag.

[SavageWombat]

Nothing, really. Just thought it worth pointing out, hence the "NB" tag.

Nota bene? New Balance? Neuberger Berman?

[zimmerwald1915]

Nota bene?

Yes, that one.

[Matt620]

Something I noticed: Leeky Windstaff doesn't have any spells listed for "Spells known" which is odd.

I know he has Fire Storm, Liveoak, and Stoneskin, and some kind of spell to shield from fire and from lightning, but not sonic (I want to say Resist Energy, but he would have had to cast that multiple times). He animated at least four trees, although the spell's length is one day a level, so he might have cast it over multiple days.

Anyone else have any other spells.

[Bird]

Something I noticed: Leeky Windstaff doesn't have any spells listed for "Spells known" which is odd.

I know he has Fire Storm, Liveoak, and Stoneskin, and some kind of spell to shield from fire and from lightning, but not sonic (I want to say Resist Energy, but he would have had to cast that multiple times). He animated at least four trees, although the spell's length is one day a level, so he might have cast it over multiple days.

Anyone else have any other spells.

Druids all have the same spell list. There's no need to list 'spells known' unless he casts something from outside the list.

[Quartz]

A quick thought about Thog: does his popularity in the arena indicate a positive Cha mod?

[Flame of Anor]

A quick thought about Thog: does his popularity in the arena indicate a positive Cha mod?

It seems likely, but I don't think it's conclusive.

[RMS Oceanic]

I'm not seeing it. I thought they liked him because he was a badass but funny guy, and it's possible to be that without Charisma.

[Quartz]

I'm not seeing it. I thought they liked him because he was a badass but funny guy, and it's possible to be that without Charisma.

You can be a badass without Charisma, but not funny; you'd be a badass jerk instead. It's not as if Thog has enough Skill Points to take ranks in Perform: Comedy, is it?

[Shale]

There's some leeway when you're a character in a comedy story, though. If you needed positive Charisma to get good jokes, Belkar would be a straight man.

[Flame of Anor]

There's some leeway when you're a character in a comedy story, though. If you needed positive Charisma to get good jokes, Belkar would be a straight man.

But people don't exactly like him, do they?

[zimmerwald1915]

But people don't exactly like him, do they?

Jenny and Ian seemed to like him well enough.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

There's some leeway when you're a character in a comedy story, though. If you needed positive Charisma to get good jokes, Belkar would be a straight man.

I don't think that having charisma is required to amuse the readers. Most people in the comic itself are shown to dislike/tolerate Belkar. Amusing or entertaining actual people in the strip, which is what Thog does in the arena, seems to imply some charisma, or at least more than Belkar.

[Crusher]

That having been said, Thog presumably has great STR and CON scores, absolutely terrible INT and WIS, and probably a mediocre DEX. I know we've been over that if the characters were created via point-buy they certainly didn't start out with the same number of points (perhaps V donated some points to Roy for unknown reasons). But, if that was hypothetically the case, Thog could well have some points left over to get his CHR up a bit.

Its funny, though. If you think about it, while Thog doesn't interact with people very often , they tend to have either neutral or positive views of him (the arena crowd, his jailers, etc). They don't necessarily like him, but given that he's a homicidal half-orc barbarian he tends to be pretty well received.

[Kornaki]

The arena scene was a commentary on how the forum readers always love Thog even though all he does is kill people. I don't think we can read into it what his charisma modifier is.

[Flame of Anor]

The arena scene was a commentary on how the forum readers always love Thog even though all he does is kill people. I don't think we can read into it what his charisma modifier is.

Just because something has a narrative purpose doesn't mean we should discount it.

[RMS Oceanic]

Just because something has a narrative purpose doesn't mean we should discount it.

True. However judging charisma based on how likable someone is is a bit fuzzy for my taste. I cite the FAQ:

Q: A character undertook this brilliant/moronic/insightful/ignorant/inspiring/repulsive action. Does that mean they now have a high/low intelligence/wisdom/charisma score?
No. Similar to the previous question [alignments], people have different ideas about what the mental ability scores represent and how much they influence a character's personality. The ability scores posted here are taken from the character's own mouth, someone else in a position to know their scores, or their use of a spell/feat/whatever which requires a minimum ability score. Kindly refrain from speculating from how a character's personality changes their ability scores, since it's not really something you can reason out with facts and numbers either.

[Flame of Anor]

Yeah, good point. I agree that it's not conclusive, but not for Kornaki's reasons.

[zimmerwald1915]

So strip 936 has once again showed Tarquin catching two arrows, this time arrows that were both fired at him. Thoughts?

[Flame of Anor]

So strip 936 has once again showed Tarquin catching two arrows, this time arrows that were both fired at him. Thoughts?

It confirms that he has Infinite Deflection, as already noted on the first page.

[Taelas]

It confirms that he has Infinite Deflection, as already noted on the first page.

What? No, it doesn't. It's a second instance of Tarquin catching two arrows at once. It doesn't confirm anything -- except that he can repeat it, I guess, but I don't think that was in doubt.

We are not presented with anything new. We already knew Tarquin could catch two arrows at once. (Whether that means Infinite Deflection is a matter of debate, and a simple repeat performance does not exactly contribute anything to either side.)

[Douglas]

It confirms that Tarquin can only catch two arrows if he uses both hands - if he could do it with one hand he would not have let go of the ship, however momentarily. I'd say this is actually evidence against Infinite Deflection, as that feat would trivially allow one-handed blocking of both arrows. The obvious alternative is a house rule that the Deflect (and Snatch) Arrows limit is per hand.

[RMS Oceanic]

It confirms that Tarquin can only catch two arrows if he uses both hands - if he could do it with one hand he would not have let go of the ship, however momentarily. I'd say this is actually evidence against Infinite Deflection, as that feat would trivially allow one-handed blocking of both arrows. The obvious alternative is a house rule that the Deflect (and Snatch) Arrows limit is per hand.

Think about the timing of the arrows though: Haley used Manyshot to fire them, as seen by the single "TWANG!" sound effect. If she fired them separately, he might be able to use one hand to snatch both, but not simultaneously.

[Kurald Galain]

The obvious alternative is a house rule that

If you like, you can visualize a little star behind every single statement or factoid in the top post, that links to "* or perhaps The Giant used a house rule". Unless there are other ways by RAW for Tarquin to perform his missile snatchery, then Infinite Deflection should remain for him.