Awaken the Flesh

[Jack Mann]

Now, I'm certain that there are reasons this wouldn't work, first of all. I'm not sure what they are, off the top of my head, but I suspect there's something that keeps this from happening.

But assuming that it were possible, what would happen if you cast animate dead (or some similar spell) on a flesh golem?

As an added question, does it matter if the flesh golem's parts come from many different humanoids, more than the number of dead the caster can animate?

What if you had a different, similar construct (and I'm sure someone's statted something like this out), like a flesh golem, but with more intact corpses stiched into one construct? Say, a few dozen humanoid bodies stitched into one.

[Skyserpent]

I would prefer casting Animate Dead on a Cadaver Collector...

[Jack Mann]

Well, nothing would happen then. The cadaver collector isn't made of bodies. It's made of metal. You'd just cast on the bodies it's collected, and we already know what happens then. I'm more interested in what you think would happen if someone tried to animate the components of a flesh golem.

[Skyserpent]

Right, I meant on the things on it's back, anyway I don't think that casting animate dead on a Flesh Golem would do much, I mean, it's not like the giant club made of bone or the dragonskin armor the druid wears can be animated. But if it was made from just a few corpses then maybe... I would guess the Golem would just go nuts from two different controllers, I can easily see a "Stop hitting yourself" situation happening.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Now, I'm certain that there are reasons this wouldn't work, first of all. I'm not sure what they are, off the top of my head, but I suspect there's something that keeps this from happening.

But assuming that it were possible, what would happen if you cast animate dead (or some similar spell) on a flesh golem?

As an added question, does it matter if the flesh golem's parts come from many different humanoids, more than the number of dead the caster can animate?

What if you had a different, similar construct (and I'm sure someone's statted something like this out), like a flesh golem, but with more intact corpses stiched into one construct? Say, a few dozen humanoid bodies stitched into one.

This is...wow...this is a really odd question. Your right in saying it wouldn't work. But if it was possible....That would be a nightmare. I would say it went...well beserk. Two diffrent forces fighting for control, not to mention the elemental spirit bound in it.

I'm of the opinion that it would go permenately beserk with no chance of its controller reestablishing control.

[Pegasos989]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateDead.htm

Skeletons

A skeleton can be created only from a mostly intact corpse or skeleton. The corpse must have bones. If a skeleton is made from a corpse, the flesh falls off the bones.
Zombies

A zombie can be created only from a mostly intact corpse. The corpse must be that of a creature with a true anatomy.

[Callos_DeTerran]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateDead.htm

Skeletons

A skeleton can be created only from a mostly intact corpse or skeleton. The corpse must have bones. If a skeleton is made from a corpse, the flesh falls off the bones.
Zombies

A zombie can be created only from a mostly intact corpse. The corpse must be that of a creature with a true anatomy.

Well a flesh golem is an intact corpse or skeleton. Just....from more then one creature. Intact doesn't mean from one body. Besides we know a flesh golem can't be animated like that. Jack wants to know what happens in the theoretical situation when it does happen.

[oriong]

Intact would mean from one body, because a corpse = a body, not multiple bodies stitched together.

Note: Animate dead says "corpse", singular, not corpse plural. The Flesh golem is not 'a corpse', it is a collection of multiple, partial corpses. it's not a valid animate dead target.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

This reminds me, I have my own undead question. Is it possible to use a variation on the very creepy flesh colossus to basically make a wandering flesh castle for a powerful lich?

[oriong]

I imagine it would depend on how you constructed it.

Legally you could not simply carve into the collosus in order to make your fortress, at least not without damaging it, but it might make an interesting way to work it. For instance, sacrificing X amoutn of Hit Points from the collosus in order to create a room of Y size. Of course, you'd need some major construction tools since it's got high DR and is immune to magic. Of course repairing the damage would cause the rooms to seal up.

However probably the best, and most feasible way would be to create a Howdah for the collossus, basically a structure built on it's back, that it carries around, serving aas the liche's home.

The collosus's carrying capacitiy is unfortunately limited though: 3,200 x 16 = 51,200 lbs, or a mere 25 tons while still at a Heavy Load, meaning that the liches fortess will have to be constructed of very light material (making it immensely fragile and probably the weak point of the 'walking fortress') or be very small.

However, the collossus CAN theoretically carry up to 50 tons staggering around, and since they cannot become exhausted they can keep this up indefinitely. This does reduce their movement to 5 feet / round, but that's still infinitely faster than other buildings. However, it's still very, very light for a 'fortress', you'd need extra light (darkwood maybe?) and magically enhanced material to be feasible.

EDIT: if you could talk your DM into letting you make a quadrapedal flesh golem the capacity would go from 25 tons at heavy load to about 38, and from 50 at staggering to about 75.

[Jack Mann]

Intact would mean from one body, because a corpse = a body, not multiple bodies stitched together.

Note: Animate dead says "corpse", singular, not corpse plural. The Flesh golem is not 'a corpse', it is a collection of multiple, partial corpses. it's not a valid animate dead target.

Read the first post again, Orion. I know it wouldn't work (though I couldn't remember just why not). I'm asking what you think would happen if it did work.

[oriong]

I was addressing Callos' post actually, I imagine if it did work you'd probably end up with a slower, twitchier and mroe useless flesh golem.

In theory, assuming you're the creator of both the golem and the caster of animate dead, any command you give it will be recieved by the golem AND the undead, and both will attempt to carry out the command to the best of their abilities.

However, the undead will probably attempt to behave as individuals, a hand will try and crawl instead of walk, a head might try and roll, etc. not to mention the variety of different ways "kill him" might be interpreted.

However, the dead bits would not have the strength to tear themselves free (assuming each is a Tiny or Small zombie they have a strength of probably 5-8, and simply wouldn't be able to overcome the DR of the golem which would act to hold the thing together. What's more, even if each attempts to act independently of the golem then they will be fighting the golem's own actions. The golem will still win most of the time since he is much stronger than his component body parts (assuming they have zombie stats, NOT golem stats).

I would say it would probably be like the golem was being constantly team grappled by anywhere from 6 to a dozen different tiny to small sized zombies, probably of 1 HD each, and treated as Aid Another rather than the auto-sucess they would normally have (which would render the golem immobile until it ripped it's own limbs off). So, 10 Tiny grapplers vs. a flesh golem. The grapplers would get about +8-+10 (depending on how many suceed their aid another check) with about a -9 penalty from strength and size. The golem gets a +15 to grapple checks, so the golem would win most of the grapple attempts but occasionally freeze up when the combined rebellion of his body parts turns against him.

[Mewtarthio]

Isn't the Flesh Golem already basically an animated dead? It'd be like trying to animate the head of an attacking zombie and nothing else.

[Jack Mann]

No, a flesh golem is a construct, not undead.

[AtomicKitKat]

Hmm, a more interesting choice would be having the Flesh Colossus put the Lich in its mouth, and the Lich fires spells(preferrably those without a trail) from the mouth. If he started throwing fireballs though, it'd be sort of like a corpse-y Godzilla firing nuclear blasts while rampaging through the countryside. It would expose his location though.

[Captain van der Decken]

I'd be inclined to agree with Callos.

Could it work if you made the golem out of one corpse?(If you can't do that, you should really be allowed to)
What would happen(theoretically) if you used create undead instead of animate? I.E. sentient undead.

[Indoril]

One of the spells required for the construction of a flech golem is animate dead. So I would rule that casting animate dead on a flesh golem is a redundancy, they're already animated. Therefore, it does nothing.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I believe you are all missing one very important point.

As Golems, Flesh Golem are immune to magic therefore Animate Dead wouldn't work.

You could kill the Flesh Golem and then animate it's body perhaps. Or you could cast Incarnate Construct to turn it into a sentient, living creature and then it could even take wizard levels and then turn into a lich.

[Captain van der Decken]

Uhh, only immune to spells that allow SR. Animate dead doesn't.

[Khantalas]

I do believe immune to spells mean immune to all spells, for some reason.

What, immune to magic missile means nothing?

[Jack Mann]

And yet the golem entries say they're only immune to spells that allow SR. Go figure.

[Indoril]

Animate Dead, while not allowing for SR, has already been cast on Flesh Golems in their creation. It still wouldn't work.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

It might be a means to bring a golem back to, er, life I suppose.

[Captain van der Decken]

Jack Mann said in the OP he knew it didn't work, but what if it did anyway.

[Toliudar]

Well, since we're well into the realm of a houseruled weird situation:

You could just apply the corpse template (Libris Mortis, I think) to the flesh golem, and rule it a composite-zombie-golem thing.

There's a lot of crossover between undead and constructs in terms of their immunities and weaknesses, so I don't think that being undead as well as a construct (outside of the weirdnesses involved in mixing magics and negative energy in this funky way).

Since my inexperienced tabletop group has already mistaken ogre zombies for flesh golems and flesh golems for zombies, anything that I threw at them that further muddied the waters would just be cruel and inhuman.

Hmm.

[Tokiko Mima]

The Cadeavar Golem from Heroes of Horror has rules regarding this. Heal spells work as a slow spell, and regenerate spells cause it to be unable to use it's special abilities for a short time as it's renewed body parts fight for control of the creature.

I assume animate dead doesn't work because in a way, the creature has a quasi-living status already that is not undeath (No constitution score) and animate dead cannot override that, just like it can't animate living bodies.

[pestilenceawaits]

I would think the magic used to crate it would prevent animate dead from working. what I think would be interesting is casting resurrection on it.

[Missing Shoe]

If it was possible this would make a very interesting baddy to face! At first I would see the undead pieces having troubles working together, but in time, they could learn to work together.

So if the right arm came from a fighter with a BAB of 15/10/5 and the left came from a rogue with BAB 10/5, mouth of a sorcerer (assume it uses still spell), plus a variety of other pieces from other things, would its turn look something like this:

right arm: attacks 3 times
left arm: sneak attack
mouth: casts a spell
...

That would sure throw PCs for a loop. Who cares if its not technically possible, I say, an epic level wizard did it.

[Tokiko Mima]

If it was possible this would make a very interesting baddy to face! At first I would see the undead pieces having troubles working together, but in time, they could learn to work together.

So if the right arm came from a fighter with a BAB of 15/10/5 and the left came from a rogue with BAB 10/5, mouth of a sorcerer (assume it uses still spell), plus a variety of other pieces from other things, would its turn look something like this:

right arm: attacks 3 times
left arm: sneak attack
mouth: casts a spell
...

That would sure throw PCs for a loop. Who cares if its not technically possible, I say, an epic level wizard did it.

That's actually pretty close to how a Cadaver Golem works. It does gain abilities from the corpses it adds to itself, but not BAB, I believe, but it can gain sneak attack from stealing a rogues hands, and fast movement and evasion from taking a Barbarian's feet and legs.