[Feat] Spear Charge

[Matthew]

Just thought the humble Spear could do with some love.

Spear Charge [General]

You are able to bring the full momentum of a charge action with a Spear, Lance or Javelin to bear on your opponent.

Prerequisites

Proficiency with spear, lance and javelin, +1 Base Attack Bonus.

Benefit

In addition to the normal benefits and penalties of charging, when you charge with a Spear, Lance or Javelin held in two hands you gain +4 to Damage; if the weapon is held in one hand (such as in the case of a Lance or Short Spear), you only gain add +2 to Damage.

Normal

A character who performs a charge gains a +2 bonus on his attack roll, gains no bonus to damage and takes a -2 penalty to his AC until the start of his next turn.

Special

A fighter may select Spear Charge as one of his fighter bonus feats.

[Edited for clarity]

[amanodel]

Good, I like that. I was thinking on something similar, but with double damage (as in against the charge) instead of +4/+2.

[icke]

Four issues:

1)
I take the +2/+4 damage replace the usual +2 attack bonus?

2) Javelins:
usually are ranged weapons not used in melee, at least not without -4 unproficieancy modifier, so they fall out of Your group of usable weapons.

3) Lances:
normally do double damage on a charge, so is the damage bonus this feat grants also doubled if a character attacks with a lance?

4)
I'd expand the list of weapons a character can use with this feat to include all those spearlike weapons that can be set against a charge, like tridents, halberds and so forth.

[Matthew]

Thanks Amanodel. I thought about a multiplier as well, but in the end opted for straight Damage Bonus to distinguish this ability from the Set Spear or Lance Charge

1) No, they are in addition to:

Two Handed Spear Charge = +2 Attack Bonus, +4 Damage Bonus, -2 Armour Class Penalty
One Handed Spear Charge = +2 Attack Bonus, +2 Damage Bonus, -2 Armour Class Penalty

2) Yes, that is true. However, I am thinking of creating a Feat that allows one to make a Ranged Attack with Javelin at the end of a Charge, so I include it.

3) Yes, it is not Precision Damage (though I did consider the possibility). Used One Handed a Lance gets a +2 Damage Bonus, used Two Handed a Lance gets a +4 Damage Bonus.

4) I considered this, but ultimately rejected it, as I don't really want this to apply to all Pole Arms, as that would diminish its benefit for the humble Spear. I may be convinced, case by case.

[Peregrine]

1) No, they are in addition to:

I think you'll find icke won't be the only one uncertain here. Your Benefit section says 'you get a damage bonus'; your Normal section says 'you get an attack bonus'. Ordinarily, a Normal section states what part of the core rules a feat changes. You haven't changed the charge bonuses, just added to them. Either make it clear that you still get the normal charge bonuses, or just delete the Normal section and let people figure it out themselves.

As for the feat itself... hmm. People are always trying to revise or boost the spear weapons one way or another. This one has an advantage over many such efforts in being short, simple, and a good fit to the existing rules. But I'm still not sure I'm sold on it... I'm uncertain about its usefulness, for one. +4 damage on a single attack isn't going to make that much difference...

I like the idea of doubled damage, myself. Same as setting against a charge, but you can justify using up a feat to get it, as running at someone with a spear is harder to get right than just pointing it at someone coming at you. And lances only deal their extra charge damage for mounted characters -- however, the foot lance was a popular weapon in reality (often just a cut-down version of the mounted lance, for when cavalry were forced to fight on foot). So again, you could say that the lance's extra mounted damage is 'basic training', while doing the same on foot would need a feat.

I don't know whether I'd let this work with mounted charges or not (and hence stack with Spirited Charge -- works for any weapon -- and with the lance's existing damage multiplier: x2 on a charge, x3 on a crit, x4 on a charging crit, x3 on a Spirited Charge, x5 on a Spirited Charge crit... so up to x6 with Spear Charge!)

[Matthew]

Well, it was modelled on Weapon Specialisation, Power Attack and Combat Expertise, the last of which does the same Normal / Benefit thing. However, I have changed it to make it clearer, as advised.

I just fancied a change from more and more multipliers, which also makes it a justifiably low prerequisite Feat. It's an extra 10-20 Damage in combination with the x5 Lance Multipliers, which I figured was enough given that it is not restricted to that form of combat.

Really, it's a Feat intended for Low Level play. An NPC Warrior 1 or a PC Fighter 1 Spear Fighter, that sort of thing.

[I_Got_This_Name]

I would change the Normal section, if you keep it, to say that you only get an attack bonus, with no damage bonus, instead of simply saying that you get an attack bonus. I'd probably just get rid of it, though.

[Raum]

Have you considered turning it into a tactical feat? I'm not sure a small bonus to damage in limited circumstances is enough to burn a feat on...but add a couple more spear tactics and it might be...

[Matthew]

What exactly are Tactical Feats? Are they from the Tome of Battle or some such thing?

[icke]

I like the idea of doubled damage, myself. Same as setting against a charge, but you can justify using up a feat to get it, as running at someone with a spear is harder to get right than just pointing it at someone coming at you.

Don't make it double damage. If a weapon is set against a charge it does double damage because the other end is planted firmly into the ground, which is not the case here. Even running at someone in full speed should not justify double damage.

1) No, they are in addition to:

Two Handed Spear Charge = +2 Attack Bonus, +4 Damage Bonus, -2 Armour Class Penalty
One Handed Spear Charge = +2 Attack Bonus, +2 Damage Bonus, -2 Armour Class Penalty

2) Yes, that is true. However, I am thinking of creating a Feat that allows one to make a Ranged Attack with Javelin at the end of a Charge, so I include it.

3) Yes, it is not Precision Damage (though I did consider the possibility). Used One Handed a Lance gets a +2 Damage Bonus, used Two Handed a Lance gets a +4 Damage Bonus.

4) I considered this, but ultimately rejected it, as I don't really want this to apply to all Pole Arms, as that would diminish its benefit for the humble Spear. I may be convinced, case by case.

1) still not overpowered, so I'm fine with it.

2) Then You have to include Your javelin ranged attack feat as a prerequisite for using javelins with this feat. Rather awkward.

3) Fine with me.

4) They work equal in all other respects, why shouldn't they work with this? Also, if You include lances, which are not actually similar to a spear, the other spearlike's belong here even more.

[danielf]

i like that feat, sounds cool.

[Raum]

What exactly are Tactical Feats? Are they from the Tome of Battle or some such thing?

I believe they were introduced in Complete Warrior. Here is one example. The tactical feats typically give three similar bonuses, each of which may be used in specific (and discrete) situations.

[Matthew]

Raum:

I see, thanks. Have to have a think about it.

icke

2) True, though it might not have to be a prerequisite, it just wouldn't work without it.

4) Mainly I'm trying to avoid granting this sort of thing to the Halberd and I'm not at all sure the Guisarme, Glaive, Trident or Ranseur using it either, not to mention the other Pole Arms lurking about elsewhere. Lances, Javelins and Spears all have one thing in common, a single head designed only to pierce. At the moment I am erring on the side of caution.

[The_Snark]

I think if you include the lance, you ought to include the trident also. Other polearms are more cumbersome or not really intended for striking with the point, but the trident is. Admittedly, if the intent is to give simple weapon wielders a benefit, the trident shouldn't be included, but then the lance is a martial weapon, also, one which already gives benefits on a charge.

[Peregrine]

Don't make it double damage. If a weapon is set against a charge it does double damage because the other end is planted firmly into the ground, which is not the case here. Even running at someone in full speed should not justify double damage.

Hmm. No, I disagree. Spears don't do damage to anyone just for being planted in the ground. It's the person charging onto it that provides the force that causes damage to be doubled. That charging person should be able to employ some of that force in their own behalf. I will concede that, as the charging person's weapon isn't (can't be) braced as effectively as the one receiving the charge, they would receive less benefit, but then you could also say the person charging isn't going to keep running themselves onto the enemy spear (no follow-through), so their own attack would have more force. And so on. Basically, one circumstance (a charge) + minor quibbles both ways = one bonus.

(Technically I don't think the rules ever state any requirements for setting a weapon against a charge, such as being on the ground. You could set against a charge in mid-air, if you wanted...)

4) They work equal in all other respects, why shouldn't they work with this? Also, if You include lances, which are not actually similar to a spear, the other spearlike's belong here even more.

Lances not similar to a spear? How do you mean?

4) Mainly I'm trying to avoid granting this sort of thing to the Halberd and I'm not at all sure the Guisarme, Glaive, Trident or Ranseur using it either, not to mention the other Pole Arms lurking about elsewhere. Lances, Javelins and Spears all have one thing in common, a single head designed only to pierce. At the moment I am erring on the side of caution.

Basically all the weapons that can be set against a charge feature this (except the trident; it has three). Halberds have a dirty great spike on top for piercing with; I'm not sure why you specifically say you're avoiding giving this feat to halberds. Guisarmes are hooked weapons; some of them added spikes, but not as spear points, so these are out. A glaive is a knife on a stick, basically, so also not really a spear. A ranseur is a spear with a couple of extra hooks on the side for trapping weapons.

And lo and behold, halberds and tridents (and urgroshes, let's not forget them) are allowed to be set against a charge, precisely because they have a spear-like head on them. (Why ranseurs can't be, I don't know.)

Of course, ability to be set against a charge can't be your only criterion, because that would exclude shortspears and lances... but apart from those cases (basically, 'too short' and 'too long'), and the ranseur which I think should be settable, those weapons which can be set against a charge are those that should reasonably be able to perform a spear charge.

[Matthew]

The Glaive and Guisarme are listed as Slashing Weapons in D&D, so no to them.

Glaive
Guisarme

As to the Halberd, basically having a dirty great Axe Head on the Shaft makes it unsuitable, as far as I am concerned, for this Feat, which is intended mechanically to aid weapons with 1D6-1D8 Damage and works on the premise that the combatant is utilising the primary function of the weapon. Mechanically, the Slashing or Piercing Damage type would also mean that a Character could make a Slashing Spear Charge and another caveat would have to be given to avoid this.

Halberd

The three prongs of the Trident mean that the force of a blow is distributed between three points instead of concentrated on one, which also makes it unsuitable to my mind (this also means that if one prong fails to pierce armour then the attack will be spoilt). There is no mechanical objection, though.

Trident

The Ranseur is currently the only Pole Arm I might consider suitable for this Feat; the elaborate head of many disinclines me from allowing it, but mechanically there would be little problem.

Ranseur

[icke]

Hmm. No, I disagree. Spears don't do damage to anyone just for being planted in the ground. It's the person charging onto it that provides the force that causes damage to be doubled. That charging person should be able to employ some of that force in their own behalf. I will concede that, as the charging person's weapon isn't (can't be) braced as effectively as the one receiving the charge, they would receive less benefit, but then you could also say the person charging isn't going to keep running themselves onto the enemy spear (no follow-through), so their own attack would have more force. And so on. Basically, one circumstance (a charge) + minor quibbles both ways = one bonus.

So, these are not game mechanics but how I think it works in real life:
Practically, if You set a weapon against a charge You place the 'non-dangerous end' on the ground and fix it with Your knee or foot.
If someone runs into the 'dangerous end' of Your weapon the effect is the same as if he ran into a wall with a spike since the weapon is non-moveable. Ergo, his momentum is transferred into destructive mechanical work(ripping his armor, causing injuries..)
If You charge with a spear You provide the same amount of momentum as the skwered guy above, but it is divided between destructive mechanical work(as above) and pushing back the one You charge(Your target is not fixed). So in the end You deal less damage with the same weapon on a charge then by setting it against one.

That's how I came to saying double damage is too much.
Problems:
1) no source I could find clarifies the actions a character takes while setting a charge, so my assumption of ground-fixing is questionable.

2) I cannot quantify the momentum division, i.e. I can't say how much of the charge's energy is used to push the opponent back.