Games with Vehicle Combat

[Morithias]

Are there any games that have good, but basic rules for vehicle combat?

Something like a dogfight in particular.

I don't want anything super complex, if you could sum it up in one roll per side per turn, it would be great.

[Erasmas]

Well, it definitely isn't as simple as one roll per side per round, but I am rather fond of the homebrew system that I came up with for my zombie apocalypse game. Built for a simplified d20 system, it is mainly designed around vehicles hitting targets on foot. However, you could easily just assign an AC for the defending car and treat it the same way!

A weapon with the “car” denotation has the capability of dealing damage to multiple targets in one round. The driver chooses her path or route (called a “run”) for that round, making the appropriate checks as needed. Any target(s) that was/were included in the path of her run are considered to have an attack pending against them. The following must be completed for each pending attack in the order that they occurred. The driver makes an attack as normal; against a normal defense roll from the target. If the attack is successful, then the target must make a Reflex save @DC=15 + (Mph, divided by 10) to take half damage. The speed at which the vehicle is traveling when a successful attack is made is then divided in half (rounded up) and added to the listed die damage.

For example, Cliff is driving his Chevy Malibu (classified under the “Sedan” category) at 30 miles an hour and plans out his run through a nearly empty parking lot. His run causes pending attacks for three zombies. He rolls his first attack and scores an 8 on his to hit; the first zombie rolls for defense and scores a 12… a miss. He rolls for his second attack and scores a 17 on his to hit; and the second zombie rolls for defense and scores a 4. The second zombie then rolls a Reflex save and rolls a 20 (succeeding, since the DC was only an 18). Cliff’s player rolls out the damage (the listed Sedan damage, plus his speed in Mph divided in half), which is 2d6+15. He rolls two 3’s, resulting in 21 points, but because the zombie passed his saving throw… it only takes 11 points from a glancing strike of the Malibu’s grill. Now, he rolls his third and final attack and scores a 16 on his to hit; the third zombie rolls for defense and scores an 11. The third zombie then rolls a Reflex save and rolls a 7 (failing against the same DC of 18). The damage this time rolls out as a hulking 26 points and splatters zombie innards all over the hood of Cliff’s Malibu!

[Morithias]

No I mean more....vehicle versus vehicle.

You know, like fighter jet versus UFO. Tank versus APC, etc.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Hmmm. I wonder if you couldn't swipe the Mouse Guard combat rules for air combat. Basically...

Each side has four actions they can pick from: Attack, Defend, Maneuver, Feint. Each action has different properties. Both players script three actions in advance, and the actions interact in different ways, often requiring independent or versus tests.

In an independent test, both sides roll an ability and get their effect. In a versus test, both sides roll an ability, and the side that rolls lower subtracts from the side that rolls higher. The higher-rolling side gets their effect.

Attack damages your opponent; two Attacks will require independent tests (you damage one another with full force), and an Attack against a Maneuver or Defend requires a versus test (high roller gets a reduced effect). Attack versus a Feint negates the Feint and goes on to deal damage with full force.

Maneuver gets you an advantage for upcoming moves. Two Maneuvers are independent tests (you both get advantages), and a Maneuver is a versus test when it faces a Feint, Attack, or Defend.

Defend heals you. Two Defends are independent tests (both sides heal), and a Defend is a versus test against Attack or Maneuver. Defend versus Feint is negated by the Feint; you take damage instead.

Like I've noted--Feint is the sneaky one. It gets negated by Attack but negates Defend. Otherwise, it tests as versus with Maneuver and Feint.

So, every round, you have to guess at your opponent's strategy, and think ahead. Very much like a dogfight, where you have to out-think your opponent.

[Rhynn]

GURPS.

Cyberpunk 2020 (Maximum Metal and IIRC one of the Firestorm books has aircraft combat specifically).

Twilight 2000, Twilight 2013. May not work great for dogfighting aircraft.

Battletech & Mechwarrior, obviously.

Star Wars Saga (spacecraft mostly).

[Oracle_Hunter]

No I mean more....vehicle versus vehicle.

You know, like fighter jet versus UFO. Tank versus APC, etc.

You need to be a little more specific.

There are plenty of games with vehicle vs. vehicle combat, ranging from psuedo-tabletop wargames (Battletech) to Magical Tea Party.

I guess Shadowrun is a good place to start. You can range from relatively light (4th Edition) to super detailed (3rd Edition).

So, say more. What exactly are you looking for in a "dogfight system?" How detailed do you want the vehicles? Is positioning important? Terrain? Crew?

[Morithias]

You need to be a little more specific.

There are plenty of games with vehicle vs. vehicle combat, ranging from psuedo-tabletop wargames (Battletech) to Magical Tea Party.

I guess Shadowrun is a good place to start. You can range from relatively light (4th Edition) to super detailed (3rd Edition).

So, say more. What exactly are you looking for in a "dogfight system?" How detailed do you want the vehicles? Is positioning important? Terrain? Crew?

Something very basic and simple. I'm mostly looking for rules to steal and co-op for my Big Bad game. We're kind of making up the rules as we go along and trying to keep it simple. Think of it as "Fluxx the rp"

[Telok]

So Car Wars and Ogre are out?

[Morithias]

Let's put it this way.

If it requires a map, it's too complex. We should be able to do the combat in our heads without grids, or maps, or anything like that.

[Joe the Rat]

So Car Wars and Ogre are out?

Heh. GURPS Autoduel.

If you are using a dice pool game, Shadowrun is a decent place to steal from. If you're going whole-hog bolt-on, rules compatibility be damned, you can always check out Palladium. Skill roll to pull off maneuvers (adding on your "rank" in a second skill that reflects, y'know, combat training), penalties (difficulty) and effects (results) of maneuvers, vehicle speed and maneuverability are an added factor in some editions. Some of these also (or instead, it's been a few years) use opposed rolls - You try to do X, they try to not do X/ do X first, best roll wins, that sort of thing.

I'd use that as inspiration, then fit the actual implementation to your roll mechanics (skill ranks vs. skill percentages, penalties vs difficulty ratings, etc.).

Are you looking specifically for a game to run with Ace Combat rules, or are you looking for something to adapt to another game?

[lt_murgen]

D6 adventure, which is free, has some good basic rules for combat between vehicles. You don't need a map, only some way to keep track of distance and speed.

[Morithias]

Are you looking specifically for a game to run with Ace Combat rules, or are you looking for something to adapt to another game?

It's being adapted for this

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=313190

and possibly a future X-com game.

[Joe the Rat]

mmm. So pretty much plug in anything. If you have access, take a look at what everyone has suggested so far. I think all of these involve separate rolls for maneuvering and attacking (maneuvering being all the ways to get behind / get our from in front of the other guy).

[Oracle_Hunter]

Let's put it this way.

If it requires a map, it's too complex. We should be able to do the combat in our heads without grids, or maps, or anything like that.

So... not a "vehicle" system per se just some sort of conflict resolution mechanism?

Well, you've got dozens, if not hundreds, to choose from.

Off-hand, I'd pick a "dramatic" system in which both sides declare stakes (e.g. "I'm going to blow up his radar," "I'm going to make him follow me into the alley") and the winner of the roll-off gets to narrate the result. Or you can go one better in which the winner gets their stake but the loser gets to narrate.

Seriously, give me parameters and I'll design the system for you. Not only would it be a good exercise for me but it'll be easier than trying to graft a "vehicle combat system" from another RPG.

[Jay R]

I doubt if you could modify it, but Ace of Aces is a perfect WWI dogfight game.

(And hard to find. It's available on eBay right now for $40 to $95.)