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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    UmpteenthDoctor's Avatar

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    Default Advice on a Shaman spell list

    Well I am thinking of doing a revamp for the OA Shaman and I think he should get a few new spells on the spell list.

    First is it legal or ok for me to post the Spell List of the OA Shaman and the Errata spells?

    I was curious. What is missing out of the OA Shaman's spell lists? I know it has virtually no offensive spells.
    Last edited by UmpteenthDoctor; 2013-11-08 at 11:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Advice on a Shaman spell list

    Removed for not being OGL I guess
    Last edited by UmpteenthDoctor; 2013-11-09 at 02:52 AM.

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    Default Re: Advice on a Shaman spell list

    Uh...I don't think you can post this spell list, it's not OGL.

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    Default Re: Advice on a Shaman spell list

    I will just use the Spell list as a guide and maybe add spells from the SC and the like. Since its gonna be an issue I might as well just make a new class.

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    Default Re: Advice on a Shaman spell list

    You can make a general list and description of something, just not go into detail.

    Like they do with handbooks, guides, and fixes.

    So I can say OA Shaman gets

    Spell 1: Small description (font is red cause the spell sucks)
    Spell 2: Small description (font is blue cause the spell rocks)
    Spell 3: Small description (font is black cause spell is meh)

    Then post you fix for the spells

    If the spells are the same as ones in the OGL or have similar effects you can just reference to the srd. Look at a handbook for say... OA Shaman and you should find a good layout to do it.

    The email the homebrew mod and be all "yo is this ok" (do this)
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    Default Re: Advice on a Shaman spell list

    In practice, I've found the Shaman list to be pretty effective as it is. Some of the spells were changed in the 3.5 update, and it actually did more to help the shaman than to hurt it. It has very few poor spell choices and a number of really good ones without having too many that are truly game breaking.

    Summon Nature's Ally and Spirit Ally are both good spell lines, the second being unique to shaman. The Possess line can also be an instant win but is a bit trickier to use.



    1
    On another note, Shaman had a decent update to 3.5 in Dragon Magazine #318, p 34.
    Explicit updates:
    1. Unarmed strike was updated to the monk's entry but had it's own progression (1st-5th: 1d6, 6-11: 1d8, 12-17: 1d10, 18-20: 2d6).
    2. Bonus Feat list was updated.

    Due to other changes in 3.5, the animal companion feature is generally assumed to updated to that of the 3.5 druid as well. Deleted spells are removed from the list, and updated spells are updated as normal.


    1On another note, I've recently been working on my own take on Shaman. It veers away from the traditional spellcaster route, but I think it work pretty well.
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    Default Re: Advice on a Shaman spell list

    Will look into that, thanks

    I know they do seem to have a good deal of powerful spells. But it seems the Shaman relies on physical attacks rather then spells.

    Honestly I was wondering if a complete rehaul might be good given the OGL.

    I thought maybe a Shaman who laid down Totems that held things like Buffs, Debuffs, I even thought a totem that made it harder to move through the area of effect for non-allies would have been cool.

    Thanks all those who posted.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Tell me if these seems like maybe to much put together or if they need to be added too.

    Spirit Animal Companion: A spirit animal that acts as a Companion with your Shaman level acting as your druid level for its progression. The animal is granted special abilities associated to the spirit subtype such as incorporeal and the like. Basically you treat it like an Incorporeal animal but it can still do things like attack and what not like a normal one.

    Totems: The Shaman can lay down these totem idols, more primitive structures that starts with 1 totem at lvl 1-5 and then increases by 1 every 5 levels so 2 at 5th-10, 3 at 10-15, 4 at 15-20. The totems act as stationary area of effects spells. They last as long as the spell slot you used to bring them forth. To summon a Totem is a move action but requires you to pay a spell slot to dictate how many rounds it exists for.

    Healing Ointment: The Shaman can use an ointment cast the equivalent of Cure Light Wounds at will at 3+Wis times per day. This cure spell increases to Cure Moderate Wounds when that spell becomes available to the Shaman's Spell List, and increases again when access to the next level of Cure spell is available.

    Ancestors Lore: The Shaman can access her ancestors and their font of knowledge to add their Wis modifier to any Knowledge check.

    The Spirit Shaman's Ghost Warrior ability

    The Spirit Shaman's Spirit Form except this is only the Shaman's mind that is granted the ability, leaving her body helpless behind.

    Maybe abilities like the Druids ability to walk through rough terrain without having to worry about being slowed by it, the wild empathy ability, etc.

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    Default Re: Advice on a Shaman spell list

    Quote Originally Posted by UmpteenthDoctor View Post
    Spirit Animal Companion: A spirit animal that acts as a Companion with your Shaman level acting as your druid level for its progression. The animal is granted special abilities associated to the spirit subtype such as incorporeal and the like. Basically you treat it like an Incorporeal animal but it can still do things like attack and what not like a normal one.
    Animal Companion but better? I don't think that's a good idea. Either give them a standard companion or do a whole new class feature. Giving the existing already strong feature and making it even stronger is just not good for balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by UmpteenthDoctor View Post
    Totems: The Shaman can lay down these totem idols, more primitive structures that starts with 1 totem at lvl 1-5 and then increases by 1 every 5 levels so 2 at 5th-10, 3 at 10-15, 4 at 15-20. The totems act as stationary area of effects spells. They last as long as the spell slot you used to bring them forth. To summon a Totem is a move action but requires you to pay a spell slot to dictate how many rounds it exists for.
    I won't say it can't work, but it seems a lot like a video game mechanic where they drop the totem so the enemy units have a chance to attack it to wreck the effect. If they just replicate spells, then why not just let them cast area spells with a duration? What benefit would adding this actually have?

    Quote Originally Posted by UmpteenthDoctor View Post
    Healing Ointment: The Shaman can use an ointment cast the equivalent of Cure Light Wounds at will at 3+Wis times per day. This cure spell increases to Cure Moderate Wounds when that spell becomes available to the Shaman's Spell List, and increases again when access to the next level of Cure spell is available.
    Seems like being able to spontaneously cast cure spells like a cleric would be simpler.

    Quote Originally Posted by UmpteenthDoctor View Post
    Ancestors Lore: The Shaman can access her ancestors and their font of knowledge to add their Wis modifier to any Knowledge check.
    Seems reasonable to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by UmpteenthDoctor View Post
    The Spirit Shaman's Ghost Warrior ability
    Seems reasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by UmpteenthDoctor View Post
    The Spirit Shaman's Spirit Form except this is only the Shaman's mind that is granted the ability, leaving her body helpless behind.
    Seems like a dangerous nerf, since using the ability outside of very specific non-combat situations will likely result in the shaman's death.

    Quote Originally Posted by UmpteenthDoctor View Post
    Maybe abilities like the Druids ability to walk through rough terrain without having to worry about being slowed by it, the wild empathy ability, etc.
    I'm not sure that the shaman should be the same as the druid. I mean, I get that they're both "primitive spiritualists," but the two concepts seem very different and like they should be handled differently.


    Other than Ghost Warrior, the things you've proposed don't really seem to fit with what you stated you wanted, i.e. a shaman that relies on physical attacks rather than spells. You've mostly suggested more non-combat magic stuff and largely ignored combat options.
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    Default Re: Advice on a Shaman spell list

    I think you misread or I misspoke(Mistyped?) I mean the OA Shaman's real means of physical damage is its unarmed combat damage progression.

    Perhaps you're right about the SAC, maybe just grant it the Animal Friendship spell from 3.0 to allow it to gain animal companions and use a spirit calling feature to allow for her to gain bonuses to know whats ahead of them.

    Well I did get the idea from the WoW Shaman, but mostly its to give them a unique way of field control, if you could move around, for example using spirit form to summon totems at different locations then you could lock down the battle field with useful buffs for your party or cripple the battle field for your baddies. I do get what you're saying about just giving them buffing and debuffing spells and let them cast area of effect spells but then what makes them any different then normal casters?

    The Ointment one I am not getting. There are classes already who can use healing touches at wills already and again if its just gonna be the same as every other class why have it?

    Well its a really powerful ability, but I mean if you think it doesn't need to be pulled back I won't. Just seems like it needed a little bit of a restriction and leaving your body vulnerable would mean the party must work to keep you're shell safe also you have an animal companion or more then one to keep you safe.

    Well the terrain idea was more because Shamans often walk the wilds and would have just learned how to walk without the really rocky terrain slowing them down too much. It was more flavorful then wanting to emulate the Druids.

    The Spell list would be comprised of spells from the Druid and Cleric Spell lists and maybe the odd pulled spell from Ranger if it had anything that fit the feel of the shaman.
    Any suggestions out there for that list?

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    Default Re: Advice on a Shaman spell list

    Animal Companion was changed in 3.5 to make it less fiddly. I really don't think reverting to 3.0 on that feature is for the best. Just my opinion.

    In response to most everything else you said: Difference for the sake of difference is not good game design. If something works and works well, then you really need a good reason to change it beyond just wanting to be different.

    For example, how is running around dropping totems any different from just casting a duration AoE spell? You drop an effect on a target area with a duration. It serves no real purpose beyond complicating a relatively simple concept for the sake of being different. Now, if you were to do something like severely limit the spell list such that they got zero AoE spells on their list and then allowed a few minor aura type effects on the totems, you might be able to get away with justifying something like this. Personally though, I still don't like the concept. It seems like a decent mechanic for a video game (RTS or MMO), just not for a tabletop game.

    Edit: For spell list suggestions, I'd really suggest sticking close to the OA list. I mean, it really is a pretty good list...
    Last edited by Rizban; 2013-11-09 at 10:54 AM.
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    Default Re: Advice on a Shaman spell list

    Except some of those spells don't exist anymore but w/e quite a bit of them where not updated to 3.5 hence my question to find replacements of them.

    Ok so just throw AoE spells at their spell list (Which you then say not to change as its perfect as is) means they get no AoE or battle field control spells.

    So what would this character's gimmick be? Just a junior Druid then?

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    Default Re: Advice on a Shaman spell list

    Don't exist anymore? Many of them only ever existed in OA and still do. Remember the core precept of the 3.5 update: Anything not officially updated still exists and is compatible.

    I didn't say it was perfect. I just said it's a pretty good list. It's a good deal better than most of the other "limited" list casters, such as warmage and beguiler. Taking away their unique and arguably iconic spells and giving them cleric/druid spells would do more to make them a "junior druid" than most other changes.

    What is your goal for the class' role/gimmick? I see some random ideas for changes to the class, but I don't see a unified goal. What purpose does "updating" the class serve beyond just doing it to do it? What are you actually trying to achieve with this?
    Last edited by Rizban; 2013-11-09 at 11:17 AM.
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    Default Re: Advice on a Shaman spell list

    I want a class maybe not so strictly focused on Spirits. But its cool I will come up with a different idea later. Thanks for the input.

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    Default Re: Advice on a Shaman spell list

    If you want it less focused on spirits, then it's really not a shaman, is it? I mean, interaction with spirits is the "gimmick" of the shaman. I guess I just don't understand why you want to make a shaman less focused in that direction, though that does make it more clear why you were suggesting some of those ideas.
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    Default Re: Advice on a Shaman spell list

    I said less focused, meaning also able to cast spells that manipulate nature and the like. Shaman does not just mean Spirit Manipulator. In many cultures and such Shaman do things from healing, making it rain, etc. They don't just cleanse evil spirits. Its not a bad gimmick but making it slightly more open would be nice. But I suppose I could go with Domains to give me that feel.

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    Default Re: Advice on a Shaman spell list

    Shamans already get domains and get more domain spell slots per day than a cleric, two per day starting at level 11. Shaman domains are also already geared more towards the natural world than cleric domains.
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