The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)

[Shale]

I'm voting for Kodos.

[Flame of Anor]

[137beth]

I vote that no one should vote until ThePhantasm calls for a vote.

But when ThePhantasm does call for a vote, I vote that that vote should happen in the thread, not by PM.

[ChristianSt]

I just feel like I needed to comment on the last 5 or so posts.

I personally find most of them extremely disrespectful towards the people who want to contribute to this thread and especially towards the thread maintainer.

This thread is in my eyes a really useful forum tool. It enables me to do some posts without spending a ton of time on searching the forums for things I want to quote. And since this is a community project, it can be rather hard to achieve a good solution for different opinions on how things should be done. But it is import to find such a solution. The most recent posts don't help anyone and only derail the thread further. I have no problem if someone says that voting is bad or whatever - but please do it in a respectful manner, but the posts here seems to me like they only want to derail the thread.

If I would maintain this thread, after seeing a bunch of such posts, I would really start to question myself: "Why am I even doing this?"


To say anything useful at all: Kudos to ThePhantasm for maintaining this thread, I think it sometimes isn't an easy task you have signed on to do. And you make a really awesome job at doing so!

[Kurald Galain]

So I recommend we do this:

(a) If you feel a vote needs to be called, PM me. In the thread, say something like "I PMed a vote suggestion to ThePhantasm."

(b) NO VOTE WILL BE CALLED UNTIL TIME TO UPDATE THE INDEX. At that point any necessary vote(s) will be held together. There are two ways to do this:

- - 1 - - The vote(s) are held by PMing the curator.

- - 2 - - Votes will be held in the thread to facilitate case-making. What do I mean by that? I mean you vote in bold and along with your vote you can write your reasons for voting that way. But once you've made your case, leave it be... don't continue to argue no matter how tempting. It isn't always necessary to have the last word on the internet. Try to make constructive cases for your vote and don't focus too much on criticizing the cases of others (since they can't respond). Remember, the time for discussion was earlier - this is the time for voting.

(c) The index, unfortunately, is not updated on a particular schedule, and voting can end up prolonging that. Usually I try to wait until there are at least 5-6 new quotes on the docket before I update the index.

Thoughts?

Great idea, please implement this as quickly as feasible. In the past months this thread has become essentially useless to the casual reader, because of its high amount of meta-posts instead of Giant quotes.

[martianmister]

I was completely serious in my last post. I think we should post our votes in here, not by PM.

[Fish]

- - 1 - -
Vote via PM.

Public voting depresses turnout when 1 side is clearly losing.

Public arguing and voting also implies to readers that the thread's purpose is arguing and voting.

Further suggestion: the default is to include the quote; it takes a vote to exclude it.

[Flame of Anor]

Public voting depresses turnout when 1 side is clearly losing.

So? If it's a foregone conclusion, then having a couple more or fewer votes that won't change anything doesn't really matter. The opposite is the case: if people see that it's a close race, they will be more likely to give their opinion. That way, we will have a higher voter turnout for controversial quotes, which is as it should be.

[martianmister]

So? If it's a foregone conclusion, then having a couple more or fewer votes that won't change anything doesn't really matter. The opposite is the case: if people see that it's a close race, they will be more likely to give their opinion. That way, we will have a higher voter turnout for controversial quotes, which is as it should be.

I totally agree. Non-secret voting works better in threads like this.

Further suggestion: the default is to include the quote; it takes a vote to exclude it.

How is that different from the current system?

[Smolder]

At this point, it's probably easier to use this thread exclusively for voting, and directly PM the people who would like alerts when there are new quotes from the Giant.

Speaking of which, are there any new quotes? I can't tell anymore...

[Gift Jeraff]

At this point, it's probably easier to use this thread exclusively for voting, and directly PM the people who would like alerts when there are new quotes from the Giant.

Speaking of which, are there any new quotes? I can't tell anymore...

The last new quote was on 01/28/2014.

The 666th post marked the death and destruction of this thread...

[Jasdoif]

How is that different from the current system?

The current system doesn't require a vote to exclude if a clear majority is against inclusion; Fish's proposal would call for votes in those cases.

[KillianHawkeye]

I just feel like I needed to comment on the last 5 or so posts.

I personally find most of them extremely disrespectful towards the people who want to contribute to this thread and especially towards the thread maintainer.

This thread is in my eyes a really useful forum tool. It enables me to do some posts without spending a ton of time on searching the forums for things I want to quote. And since this is a community project, it can be rather hard to achieve a good solution for different opinions on how things should be done. But it is import to find such a solution. The most recent posts don't help anyone and only derail the thread further. I have no problem if someone says that voting is bad or whatever - but please do it in a respectful manner, but the posts here seems to me like they only want to derail the thread.

If I would maintain this thread, after seeing a bunch of such posts, I would really start to question myself: "Why am I even doing this?"


To say anything useful at all: Kudos to ThePhantasm for maintaining this thread, I think it sometimes isn't an easy task you have signed on to do. And you make a really awesome job at doing so!

I'll admit that I am only a casual visitor of this thread, largely because of the large amount of inane bickering and back and forth that goes on, but I felt the need to say that I agree completely with ChristianSt. Seeing a flood of spammy nonsense just discourages me from wanting to read this thread, and I can only imagine that it discourages ThePhantasm as well.

So, from me, here's an additional message of thanks to ThePhantasm for all your hard work!

[Flame of Anor]

I'll admit that I am only a casual visitor of this thread, largely because of the large amount of inane bickering and back and forth that goes on

The inane bickering is almost entirely a function of the arguments that began when people misinterpreted the Giant's injunction to be selective about indexing non-OOTS comments as an injunction to be selective about indexing any and all comments.

[KillianHawkeye]

The inane bickering is almost entirely a function of the arguments that began when people misinterpreted the Giant's injunction to be selective about indexing non-OOTS comments as an injunction to be selective about indexing any and all comments.

Okay, A) I'm aware of that, and B) the origination of the problem (or the fact that I find it to be a problem in the first place) really has no bearing on the stance that spammy joke posts do nothing but clutter up the thread and make reading it more difficult.

I won't say anymore on this topic because we'll just be adding to the clutter ourselves. I hope you understand.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I totally agree. Non-secret voting works better in threads like this.

As I have explained thrice now, "voting by PM" does not in any way equal "secret voting". Stop misrepresenting the opposition just to make your point.

Grey Wolf

[ORione]

Maybe we could have votes by PM and on the thread. People voting choose one or the other, not both. There will be less clutter, since some people will likely choose to PM, but people who want to post an argument or just want to have their vote where everyone can see it can do so.

[137beth]

Maybe we could have votes by PM and on the thread. People voting choose one or the other, not both. There will be less clutter, since some people will likely choose to PM, but people who want to post an argument or just want to have their vote where everyone can see it can do so.

Might be more work for ThePhantasm, especially if ThePhantasm needs to check to make sure no one voted in the thread and by PM. Sounds nice, but I'm in favor of minimizing work for ThePhantasticalPhantasm.

[NCoffin]

I'm pretty sure this has been said before, but on the off chance it hasn't how about this?

Votes get PM'd to ThePhantasm. If all you would have posted was a yes or no, you're done here.

If you have an argument to go along with your vote, feel free to post it in the thread. That way the discussion can still sway people. Best of both worlds, without any added work for the Curator, because only PM'd votes count.

Someone upthread suggested limiting the discussion to one post to state your case. I think that would certainly cut down on clutter, but may be unnecessary.

[Sir_Leorik]

New quote from the Giant:

Bandana's appearance in panel six, giving orders to a random crewman, was to break up the monotony of Elan reading the letter. Also, "hit the head" is nautical slang for using the bathroom.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I'm pretty sure this has been said before, but on the off chance it hasn't how about this?

Votes get PM'd to ThePhantasm. If all you would have posted was a yes or no, you're done here.

If you have an argument to go along with your vote, feel free to post it in the thread. That way the discussion can still sway people. Best of both worlds, without any added work for the Curator, because only PM'd votes count.

This is the option called "vote by PM" in a nutshell. The case is still made in-thread, but the repetitive posts of "yes/no" with nothing else are kept off the thread. In general, most people don't feel a need to make a case, just give a preference based on the cases that have been made. As long as their votes are posted by the curator in a single post, their voices are heard without cluttering the thread.

Grey Wolf

[orrion]

New quote from the Giant:

Bandana's appearance in panel six, giving orders to a random crewman, was to break up the monotony of Elan reading the letter. Also, "hit the head" is nautical slang for using the bathroom.

My hope that nobody would post this one here has been destroyed.


Though I was in fact astounded at how many people didn't know what "hit the head" meant, especially in the context of what a person might do right before taking a trip somewhere.

[ChristianSt]

New quote from the Giant:

Bandana's appearance in panel six, giving orders to a random crewman, was to break up the monotony of Elan reading the letter. Also, "hit the head" is nautical slang for using the bathroom.

The Giant chipping in to say what hit the head isn't something we should include here. It's not something where the author's statement is needed. Someone can just point anyone to the Wiktionary-page hit the head (or similar).

So the question whether the first part of the quote is something we want. I personally don't think it is needed.

[Porthos]

The Giant chipping in to say what hit the head isn't something we should include here. It's not something where the author's statement is needed. Someone can just point anyone to the Wiktionary-page hit the head (or similar).

So the question whether the first part of the quote is something we want. I personally don't think it is needed.

It'd belong more in the "Things You Didn't Understand" thread, anyway.

[Jasdoif]

OK, let me see, here are the proposed quotes that I believe are still outstanding....

{table=head]{colsp=3}

Fourth Verse: Vote Overload Curse

[div]Elan is (Still) Chaotic Good[/div]Elan let Tarquin fall because he was using a different interpretation of Chaotic Good.|#936|01/11/2014
[div]"Lovable" Does Not Mean "Not Evil"[/div]Case in point, Thog.|#936|01/11/2014
[div]Haley is Still Chaotic Good[/div]|#936|01/12/2014
[div]OOTS is Not Still in Girard's Illusion[/div]|#942|01/28/2014
[div]Art Colors can Change[/div]Whether because the Giant doesn't like the old color, or because his system doesn't.|#942|01/28/2014
[div]Bandana Orders a Crewman Around in #943 to Break up Comic Monotony[/div]Also, "hit the head" means "use the restroom".|#943|02/05/2014
[/table]

(Reminder, the Girard's Illusion one was already voted to be included.)

[Sir_Leorik]

Though I was in fact astounded at how many people didn't know what "hit the head" meant, especially in the context of what a person might do right before taking a trip somewhere.

I share your astonishment. I guess the term really doesn't translate well out of the context of American culture.

[KillianHawkeye]

I share your astonishment. I guess the term really doesn't translate well out of the context of American culture.

To be honest, I had never heard that term until I made a friend who is a Navy veteran a couple years ago. It's really not something that is said much outside of a nautical setting.

[ti'esar]

Given that "hit the head" is an existing phrase that people can look up, I don't think we need a Giant quote explaining what it means. And the bit about Bandana is certainly not worthy of inclusion on its own.

[Gwynfrid]

I share your astonishment. I guess the term really doesn't translate well out of the context of American culture.

I had to look it up, but then, I'm not a native English speaker, so I expect finding phrases and cultural references that I need to look up, from time to time.

Also I understand it's not uniquely American. Apparently, it was part of sailors idiom before the US of A came to exist.

I guess the debate on this one will be another one of those "let's not have clutter" vs "let's include everything by default" discussions we've had before. I belong in the first camp myself, and think this quote isn't meaty enough to be needed for much of a purpose. But I won't make a fuss about it, or call for a vote either. Voting on these super-minor issues is tedious and honestly, it doesn't contribute much to the forum. Let's have a few folks, who feel strongly about it, have their say, and ThePhantasm can just make a call on that basis. I'll be good with whatever decision he takes.

Also, not to pile up on others who've said the same thing, but thanks to ThePhantasm for the great job here.

[Sniffnoy]

I would just like to agree that the Bandana / "hit the head" quote is not worth including.