Thought Exercise: you are the creator for the next D&D movie.

[Isamu Dyson]

What would you consider to be absolutely essential, and what would you ensure the movie never has?

Also, would you stick to an established (popular?) campaign setting such as Greyhawk/The Forgotten Realms/Dragonlance/Eberron/etc?

[genmoose]

I'm inclined to look at a relatively recent example of where a normally 'nerd' franchise exploded into mainstream culture and made a pile of money doing it; the modern Marvel movies.

How did they do it? It's hard to ignore the A list cast and massive special effects, but that doesn't seal the deal (think of the recent Hulk movies, Daredevil, Green Lantern, etc). My theory is that they had a solid plot, kept it realistic if not a little gritty, and tempered the inside jokes. Sure they threw in some nods to the loyal fan base, but you could enjoy Iron Man without any prior knowledge of the franchise.

I'd also look at the massive success of Game of Thrones. Again you have very much a 'nerd' genre (700+ pages per book, hundreds of characters, etc) that appeals both to the hardcore fan base as well as the casual viewer. In fact it can suck in many casual viewers that wouldn't normally have touched a 'fantasy' series.

So now that I've danced around the question, here is my list of must have's and must not's:

Must Have
1. Gritty realism of a pre-modern setting. There is disease, crime, poverty, suffering, etc. People are dirty and primarily concerned with surviving to see tomorrow or maybe next spring.

2. Some moral ambiguity in the majority of the characters. Sure you may have one shining example of a Lawful Good or Chaotic Good person, they should stand out among a sea of folks that teeter between neutral and evil.

3. Highlight that 'good' is often in the eye of the beholder. Maybe the main characters at one point have to steal or cheat to survive and are then shunned or refused help by some high and mighty paladin kind of folks.

4. Keep the story local and focused, at least at first (or in the first movie). We don't need to open with a thousand flying dragons or the best low budget knock off we can of the Battle of Pelennor Fields. Start the drama in a simple village and have hero thrust into his role against his will.

5. Introduce new races slowly and without great explanation. Try to avoid a tavern that looks like the Mos Eisley cantina. Also don't have the characters introduce themselves with the first paragraph of the player's handbook race description.

6. Stick to common monsters that don't require a lot of details. Orcs, goblins, ogres, spiders, wolves, etc. Make the enemies and monsters part of a real, living, breathing world. They have motivations, goals, needs, and aren't just a set piece to fill out a dungeon.

7. Magic should be subtle, possibly coincidence in some cases, and rare. If the heroes find a magic sword it should be surprisingly keen and well preserved, not glowing and with blinking lights that says "hey I'm magical, take me". This new sword may make the hero a more effective fighter but there's a question if it's the sword or just his own skill. Other magic items may just be superstition, such as a magic pouch of herbs to ward away evil but really does nothing but stink. True and overt magic should be withheld to all but the most powerful or important characters.

8. The goal for the heroes should be relatively mundane at least in the first movie/series, etc. "The Mayor's daughter was poisoned in a recent goblin raid, and the heroes must find a rare herb that will awaken her from her coma."

9. Keep the movie low budget, without making it look horribly low budget. Focus on characters and writing over massive set pieces and special effects.



Must Not Have

1. No fantastic crap from some third tier supplemental book. I know some folks think beholders are cool and undead beholders even better, but they're a bit over the top for an entry level movie/show.

2. Do not betray the source material just because it got in the way. IE the big bad is a human army but they have beholder guard dogs because it's cool. You can tweak things here or there to get around game mechanics issues, but don't completely change core elements for a sight gag.

3. Do not have the hero save the world. He's the equivalent of level 1. He may save the girl, or save the town, but that is about it.

4. Do not have the hero find artifacts or otherwise powerful magic items; or at least have them not be usable right away to their full power.

5. Do not do something that's supposed to appeal to the stereotypes of the genre. No rolling dice, no attacking the darkness. No winking at the camera just to make sure we got it that you used a bag of holding and we're supposed to know it's a bag of holding.

6. Do not cause the audience to recall their disbelief. Fantasy is about loosing yourself in the material and suspending disbelief. However bad fantasy keeps hitting you with disbelief like a dead fish to the face. "How did Gunther the dirt farmer somehow decapitate a dozen orcs and not get a scratch?" "Wait the slightly smarter than Gunther merchant's daughter managed to translate and correctly use a device created by another race and lost for centuries."

7. Do not cast known actors who look bothered to have taken the role. We've all seen that actor that says "You're the only hope we have to save the kingdom," but his eyes say "Oh God how could I have fallen this far? Maybe I shouldn't have wasted my money on hookers and blow. I hope this is enough to get my daughter through college."

As for the setting I would go for something like Forgotten Realms that has some wide appeal. It's hard to pass up all that pre-written source material, and it gives a depth that would otherwise require a lot of background writing.

But it has to be subtle. Don't give a grand tour of the Realms in the first 20 minutes. Stick to one area instead like Cormyr or the Dales. Toss out an occasional reference to Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter but don't belabor it. It gives those in the know a bit of a hint at what might come later.

Again think of the Marvel movies. All they have to do is show some purple dude (Thanos) for two seconds and fans know about what else may be coming. The writers don't even really have to stretch that much since most of their plot lines have effectively been pre-tested.

[Kaveman26]

It would depend on several factors,budget being one of them. The higher the budget the higher level of content i would be looking to portray.

So....

If i had a 125 million dollar budget i am going to make a movie based on established content. Like dark elf drizzt material, or raistlin saga in dragonlance. Something that can be franchise,

If we are talking 50 to 80 million range, then i am going to scale back events but still go with d and d story. Probably tomb of horrors or temple of elemental evil,

Low budget...i am adapting sunless citadel and hoping i can get strong cast and most bang for my buck,.

[Grinner]

*snip*

Corollary: There must be a romance sideplot. It can be totally inconsequential, but it must be there.

[valadil]

There's only one thing I'd insist on. I wouldn't want it to be a fantasy movie in a D&D universe. For it to be a D&D movie, there should be roleplaying. I actually liked how this worked in The Gamers, but I wouldn't do it as a mockumentary.

[Demidos]

A possibly interesting take--

Make it about the people actually playing the game. Who are these weirdos who actually enjoy this whole "role-playing thing"? Make it about the group at the table, and show how their real life plays into the game. Perhaps the paladin's player is having an off day and decides to randomly take it out on some nearby commoners. Every time role-play starts, abandon the group at the table and dive into the epic action sequences. Show people what gaming is like when you're actually playing, instead of just sitting around a table eating pizza and rolling dice. Show the audience the power of imagination. Okay, okay, a little too melodramatic, I know, I know.

You have precedence with things such as Jumanji and Zathura.

Throw in your staple nerds (male and female), the token athlete (or two, if a couple of them get sucked in somehow), a few other blantant stereotypical players and you're good to go!

I don't know. Could be fun.

[Sir_Thaddeus]

There's two ways to go about this. One, make it about a group of gamers, alternating sequences in real-life and in the fantasy world where their characters exist. Two, make it completely fantasy, with the nod towards D&D primarily manifesting in what abilities the characters have, what spells exist, and what monsters they fight. Honestly, I could go either way.

If I had to choose a campaign setting, I'd probably go for Eberron. It's a (sort of) new take on the oft-tread idea of fantasy, and it's great for popular spectacle - imagine a CG* flyover of Sharn. The one downside is that, for those viewers who aren't familiar with D&D, the subversion of a lot of expectations that comes with the Eberron setting might put them off.

As for essentials, I'm not sure what the complete list is, but the characters HAVE to face a dragon at some point. Not only is it the most iconic fantasy monster, but it's half the name of the game/movie. Although, that might conflict with my desire to use Eberron...

If I didn't use Eberron, I'd probably just use a generic fantasy world. Greyhawk if I had to use a published campaign setting, otherwise something homebrewed and unnamed. In a localized story, the rest of the world doesn't have to be mapped out.

*Meaning "computer generated," not "chaotic good".

[Slipperychicken]

I'm not much of a fan of D&D-style high-fantasy fiction. I love playing dnd, but not reading books or watching movies based off it. I probably wouldn't watch a dnd movie unless my peers were insistent that I do so.

[Madcrafter]

I'll agree with most of genmoose's dos, and disagree with some of the donts. That said, the two things I'd do for a DnD movie are:
1) Set it in Eberron, because it's a setting where you can explore similar issues to the modern day easily, and will hopefully be a bit more relate-able to a wider audience with the level of technology.
2) Disconnect it completely from the DnD franchise marketing-wise. You don't really gain anything by having that link be there, because everyone familiar with DnD will already recognize it's a DnD movie, and there is some possibility people non-familiar will not see it because of the negative associations of the brand. Sure, the world will know it is one, but don't put "Dungeons and Dragons: The Dungeoning" on your posters.

[Isamu Dyson]

Hm. A surprising amount of shame, thus far.

[Rhynn]

Corollary: There must be a romance sideplot. It can be totally inconsequential, but it must be there.

Oh, come on, Avengers did just fine without-- oh, right.

[Benthesquid]

I don't know what the plot of the movie would be (except that it would involve a dungeon, and at least one dragon) BUT...

It would definitely star Vin Diesel, Dame Judy Dench, and Stephen Colbert.

Edit: I'm thinking Dame Judy Dench as DM, Stephen Colbert as an obnoxious power gamer whose system mastery isn't nearly as good as he thinks, and Vin Diesel as a veteran player.

[Acatalepsy]

Hire Peter Jackson. Film in New Zealand. Pretend that it's not actually a D&D movie, but an adaptation of some other fantasy bo-hey wait just a minute...

Most likely? Well...mostly, don't. Just....don't. There's plenty of other, more worthy concepts begging to have money thrown at them; D&D is a game, not a movie; it is not a story to be told but a thing to be played.

If I had to, for some reason? To the extent that I was trying to adapt D&D specifically, I'd focus on the themes of heroism; what kind of person gives up doing the easy thing, the expected thing, to go into deep places in the world, knowing that they might not come back. Some of that is pretty; some of it isn't.

[Wraith]

Quite frankly, were I given the chance to make the next D&D film, I would basically reuse the script for Baldur's Gate, word for word.

It has everything that genmoose described.

It's about a 'low level' character that had a sheltered upbringing, stepping out into the world to fight for a cause that effects them personally, but grows into a larger - universe encompassing - tale. If nothing else, and you only make the one film, it's about a son trying to avenge the death of his father and discovering that the antagonist is his blood-brother. Premise, twist, and resolution all neat and tidy!

All of the 'alien' elements - magic, non-human races and so on - are introduced one at a time in a logical progression, to a 'sheltered' protagonist, so the audience has plenty of time to catch up with what's going on with lots of plausible opportunities to have things explained out loud. Similarly, low-level magic can look good with the use of special effects, without it going too far and making visuals take over the plot. As the films progress and the party learns new skills, magic gets more prevalent until the story reaches it's climax and allows for a truly impressive final battle.

And of course, there's plenty of room for humour and romance along side the angst and violence, which can be as gritty as you want. BG's Faerun is basically Medieval Europe where the average peasant can pay their lifetime's savings in exchange for one Healing spell, if they're lucky, so you can make it as dark, dirty and filth-ridden as you like. It just makes the fantasy elements all the more fantastic.

Starring Chris Hemsworth as Minsc, Tiny Lister as Sarevok and Ian McKellen as Gorion would be nice, but that's just icing.

[Isamu Dyson]

Baldur's Gate would most certainly require more than one film in order to display it's Mariana Trench of a story.

[Fable Wright]

What would you consider to be absolutely essential, and what would you ensure the movie never has?

Absolutely Essential: Not irritating fans.
What I would ensure the movie never has: A chance to exist.

D&D is the framework to interact with the setting. Making a movie about D&D is like making a movie about movies. What do you possibly do to make it entertaining and cover all the bases?

Answer: Don't make the movie about D&D. Perhaps make a movie set in Eberron that's about the Last War, but never about D&D.

[Emmerask]

Well there are some pretty good books that could be made into movies.
Dragonlance, Cormyr saga and Drizzt (the first few books).
So it would not be a d&d movie but a movie based on the d&d setting ie what these novels do ^^

[Lorsa]

Wouldn't it simply be best to make a cinematic version of Order of the Stick?

[CombatOwl]

What would you consider to be absolutely essential, and what would you ensure the movie never has?

Also, would you stick to an established (popular?) campaign setting such as Greyhawk/The Forgotten Realms/Dragonlance/Eberron/etc?

"Liches and Bitches"

Which, incidentally, will also be the title...

Baldur's Gate would most certainly require more than one film in order to display it's Mariana Trench of a story.

Could be worse, could be Planescape: Torment. Talk about a game that would not ever transfer well to a movie theater.

[Eldan]

I'd never make a D&D movie. It's a ludicrous idea. D&D is a rules system, you can't make a movie about rules. At least not a good one. As for the adventures people have in it, D&D means too many things to too many people. Some hack their way through dungeons. Some explore exotic locations. Some travel the planes. Some play court intrigues.

Instead, make more specific movies. Setting: The Movie is still a bit broad, but might work. Novel: the movie could be done, for some. Personally, I'd tend towards Adventure module: the movie, with some heavy adapting.

[BWR]

Considering movies like Saw, how about a Tomb of Horrors movie?

Jokes aside, I don't really have anything new to add.
- Choose a specific setting. Saves a bunch of trouble having to invent something for the movie, and many important NPCs are already taken care of.
Probably something classic like Greyhawk or FR or DL. Some settings might be a little too much for the generic public - PS, RL, DS, Mystara as a whole (though individual countries are fine), etc.

- Choose the sort of story you want to tell.
Do you want beginning level heroes, established group or high-level perhaps epic characters? The high-level/epic hero has more in common with the wilder wuxia or anime films and might be less accessable to a Western audience who aren't used to that sort of thing.
Stick with the sort of adventures for the right level. Goblins and orcs threatening a village for beginners, save the kingdom for mid-level, save the continent/world for high-level. Don't have newbies suddenly save the world or force epic heroes to fight a bunch of kobolds.

- Characters.
Make fun characters. Some cliches are ok, but don't make cliches, make characters. Try to avoid making the party come off like a Tolkien clone. Yes, we know that in D&D many of the cliches come from there, but for a wider audience it would make sense to try to play up the differences, not the similarities.

- Make it recognizably D&D
Walk the thin line between requiring lots of prior knowledge of the game and setting to understand what's going on and making a story that works on screen and on its own. However, the game mechanics do play an important role in the development of the setting, and there should be some element that those familiar with the game can directly attribute to the game. Fighters should be fighters, rogues should be rogues, clerics should be clerics and wizards should be wizards, etc. If necessary, I would have to say sacrifice the D&D element for a better story.

[AstralFire]

For settings, you're pretty much either going to have to go with Planescape, Spelljammer, Eberron, or maybe Dark Sun.

Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk will get compared unfavorably both coming and going with Lord of the Rings. It's been long enough since the last desert fantasy movie of note that Dark Sun could get away with escaping bad comparisons, but Eberron, Spelljammer and Planescape do the most 'unique' with the D&D brand, and are coherent integrations of everything introduced by the mechanics.

Of those choices, Planescape risks being too bizarre and relying too much on a high budget and subverting expectations that the audience won't have. Eberron subverts as many Tolkienesque expectations as it does specifically D&D, on the other hand.

[Eldan]

Eberron might require a lot of explanation before it can really be understood, though. Magic and weirdness are very commonplace, so that a plot on just about any level of society would face a lot of it.

Dark Sun, on the other hand, I think might work very well. It's just unusual enough not to be accused of plagiarism but not that weird or complicated on an everyday level. The basic look could be kept in the style of a classic sandal epic, just with fantastic creatures and some little magic added.

[AstralFire]

Eberron might require a lot of explanation before it can really be understood, though. Magic and weirdness are very commonplace, so that a plot on just about any level of society would face a lot of it.

I don't feel like that much explanation is needed to have an adventure in Sharn. Here's a one sentence story: Down-on-luck shapeshifter finds deactivated robot man in forgotten parts of magical city, together they fight crime recover the robot's memory to solve a murder mystery.

I feel like anyone who's a fan of Eberron would say "this seems a decent representation of what Eberron can do" and anyone who's never heard of Eberron would say "I get the idea."

[Weiser_Cain]

A Paladin, our protagonist. Raise in a monastery, so he can be the fish out of water guy every movie seems to need. Naive but crazy good in a fight so he can get into and out of trouble.


A Wizard and Ranger pair that are the 'comic relief' in the sense that they hate each other but work well together. They're also the most experienced in the group so the craziness just seems normal to them. The ranger is also ax-crazy it takes a while for people to notice though (because of his high charisma score).

An archer... I guess this can be 'the girl' can also be the hook into the main plot.

A Cleric, is shady, in it for the money.


Vin Diesel plays the bad guy.

[Rhynn]

Well there are some pretty good books that could be made into movies.
Dragonlance, Cormyr saga and Drizzt (the first few books).
So it would not be a d&d movie but a movie based on the d&d setting ie what these novels do ^^

A Dragonlance movie could totally work, if it weren't an animation so bad it makes you vomit.

Anyway, they've already made plenty of D&D movies: Beastmaster (pretty Dark Sun, at that), The Sword and the Sorcerer, Dragonslayer, The Warrior and the Sorceress... many of them were complete garbage, but it's not like the later ones did any better...

[Weiser_Cain]

All you have to do is take the look of Pathfinder then add magic and dragons a la Reign of Fire. And you'd have something at least us nerds would watch.

[Phase]

I'd just put the money towards a theatrical release of The Gamers 2: Dorkness Rising and call it a night.

[TheThan]

Personally I think a “good” DND movie needs the following things:

1: a well written screenplay.
We’ve seen great movie franchises ruined by a botched script (Indiana Jones, Star Wars etc). Even if it’s a simple plot, it needs to be well written. It doesn’t have to be “epic” either. But it does need to be make sense and be well written.

2: good acting and directing.
These are related to number one. The best script ever can be spoiled by lousy acting and lazy directing; just as the best acting and directing can be spoiled by a trash script. Hire some actors and a director with chops and that cares enough about the material to do it right.

3: a solid universe.
It helps the actors and director greatly when they “get” the movie or film. That means establishing what sort of world they live in; how much technology to they have, how much access to magic do they have that sort of thing. I’ve seen several movies that were ruined because the director didn’t “get it”. It doesn’t matter as much if they use an established setting or just create their own, what’s important is that the director and actors understand the universe and direct/act accordingly.

4: a big budget
While I don’t believe a big budget automatically makes for a good movie. I believe that it certainly helps. With a big budget, the creators have the money and time needed to make great sets, great special effects (do practical effects practically, then worry about digital effects), and the money needed to spend enough time on shooting the film (aka doing takes).

[Pex]

Must Have
1. Gritty realism of a pre-modern setting. There is disease, crime, poverty, suffering, etc. People are dirty and primarily concerned with surviving to see tomorrow or maybe next spring.

2. Some moral ambiguity in the majority of the characters. Sure you may have one shining example of a Lawful Good or Chaotic Good person, they should stand out among a sea of folks that teeter between neutral and evil.

3. Highlight that 'good' is often in the eye of the beholder. Maybe the main characters at one point have to steal or cheat to survive and are then shunned or refused help by some high and mighty paladin kind of folks.
. . .

Snippage for brevity.

I disagree.

Magic in D&D is not subtle. If it's to be a "D&D" movie, magic needs to be spotlighted. Poetic license allows for some divergence, but iconic spells must be shown for the fandom - Magic Missile, Fireball, Charm Person, Raise Dead, Cure Light Wounds, and a few others, even if not specifically and literally named. That's for the special effects to handle. It will take good writing and acting to keep it interesting. The Princess Bride did Raise Dead brilliantly. It is stupid writing to have an actor break the fourth wall to wink at the audience, literally, upon finding a magic item, but the existence of a bag of holding does not in itself break the wall. It can simply be some cool item a character finds.

D&D is fantastical, not gritty. Large cities, wild lands, farm country. People are not starving to death unless the country is evil which is the movie plot point. Poverty exists, but it's not prevalent.

Monsters need to exist. It's impractical to have every "iconic" monster, but they are needed. The first D&D movie did it stupidly with a cameo beholder and undead. Orcs and goblins have their place, but a troll for a "random encounter" is not out of the question. The BBEG doesn't have to be a humanoid, though that is easier for the general audience to relate. However, having the BBEG be a beholder makes for a nice change of pace from the stereotypical dragon or vampire. If it must be humanoid, let it be a Drow.

Morals in D&D are not relative. Good and Evil are defined concepts. It would be interesting to have one character question his morals, see Phillipe Gaston in Ladyhawke. I would agree the villain should not be doing evil things because he relishes his evilness. However, Good is not Evil with a different label.