Roleplaying a high int, low wis character?

[PrGo]

Yello!

A friend of mine's playing a new character, a witch with high intelligence and charisma, but low wisdom, and we don't know how she should roleplay that one. Can you give us some advice and/or fictional characters who'd have such stats?

Thanks in advance

[Forrestfire]

Elan Tarquin feels like a perfect example of someone with a fairly high intelligence score and a fairly bad wisdom score: insight, a good amount of smarts, really bad ideas.

EDIT: Those are good points. Elan is probably just normal dumb

[Waar]

Go for smart ideas/plans not wise.

Now I would say is a good example of someone with bad int and decent/good wisdom, insigt and an understanding of the setting/surroundings, and realises what would be a good/right thing to do, but not whether it is smart.

Which is really the main problem one persons interpertation of wisdom and intelligence can be quite different from anothers.

For characters with good int and bad wis you have say , and (haley also have good charisma, in case that wasn't obvious )

But remember to roleplay your character and not just its stats .

[Yora]

As the popular phrase goes:

"Intelligence tells you how to do it. Wisdom tells you why you should not do it."

[Haarkla]

"Now for this potion we have to add the ground minotaur horn as the potion is bubbling just so - oh no, now where did I put the ground minotaur horn"

"I can assure you it is me in control, not the devil with whom I have a contract"

"Yes, I know you are beautiful, intelligent and learned in the ways of magic, but there is another reason why your plot to seduce Dumbledore wont work."

"Don't kill him now! - I have devised a most fiendish magical death for you, barbarian."

Elan feels like a perfect example of someone with a fairly high intelligence score and a really bad wisdom score: insight, a good amount of smarts, really bad ideas.

Elan seems to have a fairly low int score to me.

[Jay R]

High Intelligence, Low Wisdom is somebody who has lots of knowledge and the ability to concoct elaborate plans, but has little common sense, and often forgets specific simple facts along the way. Faced with an electrical fence, she will be inventing a clever plan for shorting out the system, while the average person has already gone through the gate.

Consider The Big Bang Theory. Leonard has high Intelligence and average Wisdom. Sheldon has even higher Intelligence but very low Wisdom.

[mucat]

Faced with an electrical fence, she will be inventing a clever plan for shorting out the system, while the average person has already gone through the gate.

This is one of my favorite ways to play a high-int, low-wis character: someone who loves to create complex, bewildering plans, theories, and/or inventions, while utterly overlooking some key, obvious detail that either (1) will prevent the plan from working as intended, or (2) makes the whole plan unnecessary in the first place.

You do need to make sure such a character will be entertaining, rather than annoying, to your fellow players. Make sure her plans contain enough good ideas that the others can help improve on them, point out the details she overlooked, and together they can all come up with a viable strategy. Try to play up the character's high charisma as well as intelligence; make her enthusiasm for her complex schemes contagious, and kind of fun to play along with (except for the "Holy crap, she's gonna get us all killed!" part.)

And finally, in a situation where the other players (as opposed to their characters) would really rather take the simple common-sense approach, you can follow their lead without breaking character....simply let her be distracted by some OTHER topic that has nothing to do with the situation at hand. "The dragon? What...ah, that dragon. Yes, let's go with your plan," she says, and listens just enough to carry out her role in it, while barely looking up from the arcane formulae she is scribbling...if she could just get that one damned term to balance, she is certain she could communicate with ant colonies!


Another alternative would be an impulsive character who never has much of a plan, but races into dangerous situations and trusts herself to improvise her way out of them. ("I'm making this up as I go along!") She comes out on top more often than not, by a combination of quick thinking and fast talking; if not for that high Int and Cha, her life would be a (short) series of disasters!

[VariSami]

If I were to apply my education on the problem, I believe Grice nails the question in "Aspects of Reason". His foundations are already visible in the works of Aristotle and Kant, though, and his book could be seen as a formalization of sorts for these classic positions. Not interested in philosophical literature? Here is the gist of it:
1. Intelligence is problem solution -oriented. If you are given a problem, you are more adept at solving it if you are highly intelligent.
2. Wisdom is problem meaning -oriented. These people are able to perceive which problem being solved would likely help the situation, while they might not be able to actually reason for a solution.

This, of course, is relatively close to the paradigms stated in the Player's Handbook, at least during the 3.5 era. In effect, a high-INT, low-Wis character should be expected to resolve all the wrong problems, unless by accident happening on the meaningful as well.

[Telonius]

Yello!

A friend of mine's playing a new character, a witch with high intelligence and charisma, but low wisdom, and we don't know how she should roleplay that one. Can you give us some advice and/or fictional characters who'd have such stats?

Thanks in advance

Three words:

Wile E. Coyote.

[Mastikator]

Wisdom isn't just making good choices, it's making good life choices and resisting temptation. Stuff like smoking, drinking too much or any drug related problem or eating disorder are clear sign of bad or at least not good wisdom.
Wisdom is probably the best indicator of success in life.

High intelligence means very good at learning, especially academic stuff, but not exclusively academic stuff, it means being good at games like chess, cross words, being able to think abstractly and connect syllogisms logically and follow premises to their logical conclusion. High intelligence is deeply tied to knowing things on a rational level.
Wisdom is being rational.

Someone who knows that smoking is very bad for you, yet still does it and doesn't kid themselves that they're addicted and not in control of their own actions is someone who is high int low wis.
They are probably good at giving advice to other people, or at least thinking up good advice (depending on charisma).

[mucat]

It occurs to me that both the examples I gave -- maker of unnecessarily complicated plans, and seat-of-the-pants improviser -- require a kind of manic, high-energy play style. The player has to bring all their own intelligence and charisma to bear, to convincingly portray these qualities in the character. Which can be great fun, but also exhausting, especially if the game was meant to be an relaxing break from everyone's busy lives.

A less-energetic portrayal of high-int, high-cha, low wis could be the absent-minded thinker, who fails those Spot checks and Sense Motive rolls because she's got more interesting things on her mind. The challenge here would be to portray a high-charisma character who's not socially engaged most of the time. The player could give her lots of likable qualities -- her detachment isn't aloof or standoffish; she just forgets what's going on around her a lot -- and on the occasions when she does press an argument, have her do it eloquently and convincingly. Her force of personality is strong; it's just usually turned inward...giving the player a less frenetic job in portraying her!

[Anajamois]

Let me tell you the tale of Edwin Odeisseron... A charming male Red Wizard. Human Lawful Evil Conjurer, >18 Intelligence, <10 Wisdom.

Edwin found an unintelligible scroll on the journey. He demanded to see it, and was confident he could use his superior intellect to decode it. Across the course of the adventure, Edwin slowly decoded the intricate scroll to discover its meaning.

Eventually, Edwin translated enough to realise that this was, in fact, a scroll of transmogrification, not unlike the process used to ascend to Lichdom. Edwin happily announced that he could use his brainpower to work out the missing gaps, and cast the spell on himself. The Paladin told him it was immoral, and Edwin scoffed in his face, promising the party that upon his ascent to a greater plane of existence, he would be sure to forget them immediately, as he wouldn't need them.

Edwin is now a woman.

This is how to play a genius without a shred of common sense.

(If you didn't already know, Edwin is a potential party member in Baldur's Gate II.)

[AKA_Bait]

You wanted examples of high Int and Cha and low Wis right?


Caveat: I view Int as raw brain power (how fast can do you solve a problem), Wis as common sense and reading people, and CHA as a squishy mix of physical looks, likeability, and/or stage presence.

Also, how low a wisdom are we talking about? Are we talking 9 (foolish sometimes) or 6 (serious common sense impairment)?

Some characters that strike me as having a wisdom penalty with varying degrees of high int and cha:

Shawn Spencer from the show Psych
Temperance "Bones" Brennan (emphasis on looks/likeability)
Radical Edward
The Doctor (please refrain from biting my head off fellow playgrounders)
Barney Stinson
Kvothe

Some I would say have average Wisdom:

James T. Kirk
Tom Paris
Molly Carpenter

Edit: mucat makes a good point. Here are a few that are more "low key" than the ones above:

Peregrin Took
Galad Damodred
John Crichton

[Jay R]

I view ... CHA as a squishy mix of physical looks, likeability, and/or stage presence.

CHA makes more sense if you focus on results instead of process. CHA is how much you can convince people to believe you, obey you, or follow you. It doesn't matter much what the personal tools are, and everyone's are different.

Some I would say have average Wisdom:

James T. Kirk

It sort of looks like it, but based on my rule of using results rather than process, I am forced to conclude otherwise. Until he makes a decision that doesn't lead to success of the mission, I'd have to assume higher than average WIS.

[AKA_Bait]

It sort of looks like it, but based on my rule of using results rather than process, I am forced to conclude otherwise. Until he makes a decision that doesn't lead to success of the mission, I'd have to assume higher than average WIS.

We can agree to disagree. D&D doesn't have a factor for "luck" or "benefits from having a team that pulls his chestnuts out of the fire" which are the underpinnings of most of Kirk's stupid but somehow successful plans.

Also, on the results based approach I think there's a "lookout for the protagonist" effect to be kept in mind.

A few more that occured to me:

Gregory House
Tony Stark
Elizabeth Bennet (arguable, I'll admit)

As you can see, your friend has a lot of leeway. The key thing to remember is brains and influence over good decision-making.

[Isamu Dyson]

Mad scientist.

[Anajamois]

Some I would say have average Wisdom:
Tom Paris

Remember that time he agreed to fight a Klingon in Batleth combat?

I'd say his intelligence, though very average, surpasses his wisdom.
I'd guess it at 11-12 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom.

[AKA_Bait]

Remember that time he agreed to fight a Klingon in Batleth combat?

I'd say his intelligence, though very average, surpasses his wisdom.
I'd guess it at 11-12 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom.

To be honest, I gave him a default 14 int or so in my head pretty much only on the basis that he made it through Starfleet Academy at all.

[Techsmart]

Tony Stark

This. Tony (especially in the movies) is a perfect example of 'high int and cha, low wis'. When he steps in a room, you know he's there. If you have a -20 perception, you will probably know he's there. When he invents, he's a genius (I mean, that's why he's iron man). Looking at his track record, though, a lot of his problems could have been addressed with some common sense, or being a bit more perceptive.

[Tengu_temp]

From my experience, "high int, low wis" describes most nerds*. So just play what you see around at the gaming table!

* - most of the rest just think they have high intelligence, but it's around average.

[Flickerdart]

This. Tony (especially in the movies) is a perfect example of 'high int and cha, low wis'. When he steps in a room, you know he's there. If you have a -20 perception, you will probably know he's there. When he invents, he's a genius (I mean, that's why he's iron man). Looking at his track record, though, a lot of his problems could have been addressed with some common sense, or being a bit more perceptive.

Stark's Charisma isn't that high - he's stubborn and can be witty, but when have you ever seen him actually convince anyone to do anything?

[Raimun]

Stark's Charisma isn't that high - he's stubborn and can be witty, but when have you ever seen him actually convince anyone to do anything?

Do you remember the reporter lady in the beginning of the first movie?

But to be honest, his charisma only really worked on people who could be seen as non-villain NPCs, ie. ordinary people. They were most of the time really impressed of Stark, even if he didn't do anything special, like save their lives.

Then again, people of PC- and villain-caliber are usually "granted an immunity" to social skills and high charisma. That's why his charisma doesn't really work on people such as Pepper, Cap, Thor, Widow, Stane, Vanko, Killian and Loki.

Imagine how lame it would be if Stark could just use diplomacy on Pepper or actually intimidate Loki at the Stark Tower?

[Icewraith]

Movie Tony Stark is definitely high CHA.

Not only does he have a sterling reputation with the ladies (except the romantic interest where necessary for storyline), but he displays constant wit, is the public face for his own company, and does his own (effective) sales demonstrations. Those last two especially require effective CHA.

Where I have an issue is figuring out batman (I was going to use him to draw comparison but just ended up tripping over it). He's a brilliant detective but spends billions of dollars running around one city in a costume fighting (mostly) petty crime. High int low wis? But he's got ninja-level perception and would be dead ten times over if he fit the absent minded professor archetype. Low cha? Well he is a social recluse and probably has six million personality problems, but he still seems to get on well with the ladies, runs his own company, and seems to have a command of social graces when he wants to. Also he's got the "mysterious dangerous stranger" type of charisma instead of the "awesome rockstar playboy" charisma.

[Flickerdart]

Movie Tony Stark is definitely high CHA.

Not only does he have a sterling reputation with the ladies (except the romantic interest where necessary for storyline), but he displays constant wit, is the public face for his own company, and does his own (effective) sales demonstrations. Those last two especially require effective CHA.

He's got some Charisma. Probably about 13-15; honestly, quite average when it comes to main characters. But his Intelligence is vastly higher. Compare "ladies' man" and "does sales demos" to "invents 42 different ways to kill you with robots, as a hobby."

[Qwertystop]

Movie Tony Stark is definitely high CHA.

Not only does he have a sterling reputation with the ladies (except the romantic interest where necessary for storyline), but he displays constant wit, is the public face for his own company, and does his own (effective) sales demonstrations. Those last two especially require effective CHA.

Where I have an issue is figuring out batman (I was going to use him to draw comparison but just ended up tripping over it). He's a brilliant detective but spends billions of dollars running around one city in a costume fighting (mostly) petty crime. High int low wis? But he's got ninja-level perception and would be dead ten times over if he fit the absent minded professor archetype. Low cha? Well he is a social recluse and probably has six million personality problems, but he still seems to get on well with the ladies, runs his own company, and seems to have a command of social graces when he wants to. Also he's got the "mysterious dangerous stranger" type of charisma instead of the "awesome rockstar playboy" charisma.

Batman's generally inconsistent, though. Remember, he's popular for the every-spot-on-the-alignment-grid picture.

[Trickquestion]

I played a character like this once. He was a chain smoking, morphine addicted booze monkey of a wizard, whose intense greed and bad life choices always got him in trouble, but who always got out by killing huge numbers of people with magic.

An example: The party gave him a sake of gold to go down to the market to buy wizard supplies. While waiting in line at a store, a fellow shopper scuffs his shoe, and the drunkest wizard alive makes the deductive leap that random store patron is trying to assassinate him, and responds with a fireball. In a crowded shop. When the rest of the party returns, the wizard is stacking the mangled corpses of the various patrons to make a bonfire, as he believes they are some kind of obscure shape shifting undead that must be burned in sacred fire to stop, which he read about in Wizard College before being kicked out for being a psychotic junkie.

That sum it up for you?

[Reathin]

High Intelligence allows you to create a powerful magical ritual that rips an area the size of a castle and hurls it into the Abyss.

High Wisdom allows you to think "maybe I shouldn't be within this range when I cast it".

[Kudaku]

A few more that occured to me:

Gregory House

Are you arguing that House has a low wisdom, or an average wisdom?

[Lorsa]

Wisdom in D&D, despite its name, has more to do with awareness and contact with divinity / balance of the soul than it has to do with actual "wisdom". As such, a high Int character with low Wis will be more like an absent-minded scholar, deep in a train of thoughts and missing what's going on in the world around. It could also, if we are to believe the rules, imply a person that has trouble connecting with the divine forces of nature and as such might be less inclined to listen to deities and their teachings. Look at the skills and the types of spells they affect and you will see what high Int, low Wis would mean. Same with Cha.

Basically I think a good example of a high Int + Cha coupled with low Wis character in D&D would be Nale. Naturally taking charge and leading people with very complicated and convoluted plans, unable to change said plans and completely missing new things in the surroundings due to being too focused and narrow-minded.

[Eric Tolle]

Exempli gratia: