Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 36
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Crake's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2011

    Default What level should ability modifier items open up

    Ok, so recently I was working on crafting a +6 intelligence item, which I thought was completely fine, and I mentioned it in passing with my DM, who immediately noted his disagreement, saying that I could only craft ability modifier items if my level was 3x the modifier, so if I wanted to craft +6, I'd need to be level 18. At the moment I'm level 13, so the best I can get up to is +4. Now I made sure that he realised that this was a houserule, not really by the books, so we're both clear on that, and despite me not liking the rule, I'm living with it. But that opened up the question for me, what level should these items become commonplace, at least for primary ability scores? I've always thought that by 12-15ish, +6 items should be quite decently available, after all, they're only 36k, which at 12 isnt even half of your wealth by level, and at 15 is barely even a blip.
    World of Madius wiki - My personal campaign setting, including my homebrew Optional Gestalt/LA rules.
    The new Quick Vestige List

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazyan View Post
    Playing a wizard the way GitP says wizards should be played requires the equivalent time and effort investment of a university minor. Do you really want to go down this rabbit hole, or are you comfortable with just throwing a souped-up Orb of Fire at the thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by atemu1234 View Post
    Humans are rarely truly irrational, just wrong.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    As soon as your WBL reaches 4,000 gp, 16,000 gp and 36,000 gp respectively. It's called Wealth By LEVEL. Meaning, you can't ever own more then that at a given level. So regardless of when you can make it, you can simply go to any major city and buy it.


    If you respect WBL, you are giving up quite a bit for that particular stat boost.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    Also note that basically every scaling numerical magical buff has this clause except for ability enhancement items. Armor, Natural Armor, mighty fists, resist to saves, etc.

    Given that MIC decided to group all of the scaling numerical bonus item effects into a category, I understand where he's coming from.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Temotei's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Minnesota
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    They should be available when you have the gold to spare for them.
    Homebrew
    Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Siebenwind

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    They should always be available, only to costly or to highly protected to be available for characters of lower levels.

    I'd say, Level 3-5 for +2, level 8-10 for +4 and level 13-15 for +6. But that's just an opinion.
    Thanks for Zefir for the custom avatar.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    I'd say it's silly to let someone (ESPECIALLY a caster) have a single magic item that's worth more than about 15% of their wealth by level, as non-casters really need solid items in "the Big Six".
    So, about level 16? Which still seems low to me. +6 is a lot.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2012

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    Quote Originally Posted by Jlerpy View Post
    +6 is a lot.
    But you don't go from +0 to +6. You very likely already had +4 enhancement bonus before, so it's just another point. Hardly a major difference.
    My D&D 5th ed. Druid Handbook

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    Quote Originally Posted by hymer View Post
    But you don't go from +0 to +6. You very likely already had +4 enhancement bonus before, so it's just another point. Hardly a major difference.
    +4 is also quite a lot.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2012

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    You're supposed to have it. Where will melee be without their physical stat boosters? They need those constant bonuses to strength/dex and con, and a lot sooner than than level 6/12/18.
    My D&D 5th ed. Druid Handbook

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    Quote Originally Posted by hymer View Post
    You're supposed to have it. Where will melee be without their physical stat boosters? They need those constant bonuses to strength/dex and con, and a lot sooner than than level 6/12/18.
    But they ALSO need powerful weapons, armour and other protective stuff.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Hamste's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2012

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    Quote Originally Posted by Jlerpy View Post
    +4 is also quite a lot.
    Not really it is two more on the dc and an extra 2nd, 3 rd and 6th level spell if you are wizard (starting with a 20). It is two more ac and 2 more on reflex saves if you gain dex. It's two more on will saves and the same bonus to spells for a cleric. It's two more damage, two more to hit and slightly more carrying capacity. It's two more on charisma checks and bonus spells if you go that route. The bonus to Con is actually ok as it is the only one that actually scales well at all.

    Most of those (except the bonus level 6 spell) can be easily copied cheaper with other magic items. People just pay for the enhancement bonus because it stacks with their items well. The items aren't even really needed, Animal Adjectives are second level spells so a wand would have been easy to carry around for cheaper by the time they get to the point you described in the game. Of course it is nice to have the effect be continuous but in reality for people other than spell casters the stat bonuses are not actually that good.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamste View Post
    Not really it is two more on the dc and an extra 2nd, 3 rd and 6th level spell if you are wizard (starting with a 20). It is two more ac and 2 more on reflex saves if you gain dex. It's two more on will saves and the same bonus to spells for a cleric. It's two more damage, two more to hit and slightly more carrying capacity. It's two more on charisma checks and bonus spells if you go that route. The bonus to Con is actually ok as it is the only one that actually scales well at all.

    Most of those (except the bonus level 6 spell) can be easily copied cheaper with other magic items. People just pay for the enhancement bonus because it stacks with their items well. The items aren't even really needed, Animal Adjectives are second level spells so a wand would have been easy to carry around for cheaper by the time they get to the point you described in the game. Of course it is nice to have the effect be continuous but in reality for people other than spell casters the stat bonuses are not actually that good.
    And it's the "people other than spell casters" part that's the rub. Stat boosts are great for casters and they have less use for other kinds of items.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2011

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    Well, there is the _guideline_ in the DMG that any one item should not be worth more than half your WBL. I think that's fair. 25% WBL is probably more typical in actual play, but somewhere between 25 and 50% for your primary magic item should be sound.
    So it should definitely be _available_ at level 12. Whether you actually want to dump a 20K markup into a single +1 bonus at this point is of course up to you.

    FWIW, in my games I typically assume the following:
    - at level 4, you can get a single +1 ability item for your primary stat, so if you start out at, say, 18, you can bump it to 20 at level 4. This is the only odd-numbered ability enhancement you can get, though.
    - at level 7-8 you should get a +2 item
    - +4 item usually around level 10-11
    - +6 item at level 13-14.
    It's certainly unnecessary to make the players wait longer than level 14.
    Again, they may get the upgrade sooner, but in my experience it cuts into your WBL so deeply that it's usually not worth it; better to branch out a little and get more utility gear.
    Let me give you a brief rundown of an average Post-3E Era fight: You attack an enemy and start kicking his shins. He then starts kicking your shins, then you take it in turns kicking until one of you falls over. It basically comes down to who started the battle with the biggest boot, and the only strategy involved is realizing when things have gone tits up and legging it.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Copenhagen
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    When I DM, I try to keep magic items at a minimum, because it loses a lot if the awe or specialness to it, if high + items are too common. I usually go by something like 8/16/24 for +2/+4/+6...

    I know that a level 9 PC would have starting gold enough to buy a +6, but that just seems stupid to me... What crazy items should a level 30 have if a level 9 had +6. Level 18= +12, level 27+18... You get the idea.

    So by keeping magic gear low, I try to keep them more interesting and more valuable at the same time.

    I have to add, that I also keep gold a lot lover than what the PHB/DMG perscribes. I feel that it makes for a more interesting game, if the players are not filthy rich right from the get go!
    Last edited by Melcar; 2013-11-13 at 06:52 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by chaotic stupid View Post
    tippy's posted, thread's over now

    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamste View Post
    Not really it is two more on the dc and an extra 2nd, 3 rd and 6th level spell if you are wizard (starting with a 20). It is two more ac and 2 more on reflex saves if you gain dex. It's two more on will saves and the same bonus to spells for a cleric. It's two more damage, two more to hit and slightly more carrying capacity. It's two more on charisma checks and bonus spells if you go that route. The bonus to Con is actually ok as it is the only one that actually scales well at all.
    I will back up a little, as I've just realised that we're talking normal D&D stat bonuses (where you only get a bonus every even number), rather than actual stat bonuses.

    +6 is still significant, but +4 is less so.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Spore's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2013

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    A maximum of half the character wealth should be spent on one item. I am not sure if that rule exists in D&D but it does in Pathfinder. It's just not smart to spend that much money on +1 to spell DCs.

    Well, it's smart, but not if it is the only thing your money does for you.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    This is an actual rule for weapon and armor enhancement bonuses. I don't think it is for ability score bonuses and I think your DM is just getting the rules mixed up there. Searching for the word "three" I only found it under weapons, armor and the ring of three wishes example item. Let him know and I think you can get this whole thing cleared up.

    That said, another +1 to your save DCs is overrated when most of the good spells don't even have saves. I'd be crafting a staff if I were you for moar spells; especially spammable and/or situational ones like wall of force (though I'd also prepare this one), divinations, force cage (often need 0 to save money, often need 4 to just plain win), stoneskin (since you need to wait for a 1-2 hour mission to use it at all and then you tag the whole party), greater teleport (never know how many you'll need), etc. Don't worry about charges never in my life have I had them run out. Ditto on material component costs; even if spamming a few will be plenty for the brief challenges that make up D&D.

    But since you already have craft wondrous item anyway I'd make some +6 strength items for the melee; they'll get a lot more mileage out of it. And +4 of various other stats for the whole party. Maybe some flight providing magic items or whatever other wondrous utility stuff they need. Come to think of it, dust of disappearance is a pretty awesomesauce 1750 gp "we win" button for tough fights. In case your DM is rules fuzzy give him this so the monsters at least have half a chance: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbi...m#invisibility
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2013-11-13 at 11:07 AM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    ONT Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    People always say I don't want magic items to lose there wonder. Then get creative and make them spectacular. Instead of handing out cookie cutter magic items customize magic Items.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Spamalot in the Playground
     
    Psyren's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    Special or not, the game just plain expects players to have magic items past a certain point; that is what WBL means, because nothing else in the game costs that much unless you're talking about buying your own village or something. If you withhold appropriate wealth from them, you need to adjust the encounters to reflect this, because they players end up undergeared for CR-appropriate challenges.

    I do however agree with those who are limiting it to no more than 25%, and certainly no more than 50%, in any one item.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
    Cheers to Psyren the MVP "naysayer".
    Plague Doctor by Crimmy
    Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Sith_Happens's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Dromund Kaas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    Quote Originally Posted by Melcar View Post
    I know that a level 9 PC would have starting gold enough to buy a +6, but that just seems stupid to me... What crazy items should a level 30 have if a level 9 had +6. Level 18= +12, level 27+18... You get the idea.
    A 30th level character fights Balors in bulk, I should hope they have more than a +5 sword and some shiny boots.
    Revan avatar by kaptainkrutch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    Choose the fraction of your wealth that you are willing & allowed to sacrifice to improve the stat and consult the table below.

    Ability Enhancers (Enhancement bonus)
    At 10% of Character Wealth by level you get
    +2 at 10th(PC)/14th(NPC)
    +4 at 15th(PC)/19th(NPC)
    +6 at 18th(PC)/Epic(NPC)

    At 25% of Character Wealth by level you get
    +2 at 7th(PC)/10th(NPC)
    +4 at 11th(PC)/16th(NPC)
    +6 at 14th(PC)/18th(NPC)

    At 33% of Character Wealth by level you get
    +2 at 6th(PC)/9th(NPC)
    +4 at 10th(PC)/16th(NPC)
    +6 at 13th(PC)/17th(NPC)

    At 50% of Character Wealth by level you get
    +2 at 5th(PC)/8th(NPC)
    +4 at 9th(PC)/13th(NPC)
    +6 at 12th(PC)/16th(NPC)

    Saves (Resistance bonus)
    At 10% of Character Wealth by level you get
    +1 at 6th(PC)/9th(NPC)
    +2 at 10th(PC)/14th(NPC)
    +3 at 13th(PC)/17th(NPC)
    +4 at 15th(PC)/19th(NPC)
    +5 at 16th(PC)/Epic(NPC)

    At 25% of Character Wealth by level you get
    +1 at 4th(PC)/5th(NPC)
    +2 at 7th(PC)/10th(NPC)
    +3 at 9th(PC)/14th(NPC)
    +4 at 11th(PC)/16th(NPC)
    +5 at 13th(PC)/17th(NPC)

    At 33% of Character Wealth by level you get
    +1 at 4th(PC)/4th(NPC)
    +2 at 5th(PC)/9th(NPC)
    +3 at 8th(PC)/12th(NPC)
    +4 at 10th(PC)/14th(NPC)
    +5 at 12th(PC)/16th(NPC)

    At 50% of Character Wealth by level you get
    +1 at 3rd(PC)/2nd(NPC)
    +2 at 5th(PC)/8th(NPC)
    +3 at 7th(PC)/11th(NPC)
    +4 at 9th(PC)/13th(NPC)
    +5 at 11th(PC)/15th(NPC)

    I consider 33%-50% to be the cap for the character's primary item. (Not always an ability modifier)
    I consider 25% to be the cap for all other items.
    Last edited by OldTrees1; 2013-12-02 at 12:16 AM.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Spamalot in the Playground
     
    Psyren's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    Quote Originally Posted by OldTrees1 View Post
    Choose the fraction of your wealth that you are willing & allowed to sacrifice to improve the stat and consult the table below.

    At 10% of Character Wealth by level you get
    +2 at 10th(PC)/14th(NPC)
    +4 at 15th(PC)/19th(NPC)
    +6 at 18th(PC)/Epic(NPC)

    At 25% of Character Wealth by level you get
    +2 at 7th(PC)/10th(NPC)
    +4 at 11th(PC)/16th(NPC)
    +6 at 14th(PC)/18th(NPC)

    At 33% of Character Wealth by level you get
    +2 at 6th(PC)/9th(NPC)
    +4 at 10th(PC)/16th(NPC)
    +6 at 13th(PC)/17th(NPC)

    At 50% of Character Wealth by level you get
    +2 at 5th(PC)/8th(NPC)
    +4 at 9th(PC)/13th(NPC)
    +6 at 12th(PC)/16th(NPC)

    I consider 33%-50% to be the cap for the character's primary item. (Not always an ability modifier)
    I consider 25% to be the cap for all other items.
    I think this is a great rule of thumb. Adding to sig

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
    Cheers to Psyren the MVP "naysayer".
    Plague Doctor by Crimmy
    Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    Thanks Psyren.

    Anything I could add to it to make it more useful?

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Spore's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2013

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    As we ruled that preexisting characters with Creation feats can create up to 25% of their WBL with their feat, I got my headband on 9th level easily. There are rules according to this in the Ultimate Campaign handbook of Pathfinder but I can't find a link for the life of me.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Crake's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2011

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    This is an actual rule for weapon and armor enhancement bonuses. I don't think it is for ability score bonuses and I think your DM is just getting the rules mixed up there. Searching for the word "three" I only found it under weapons, armor and the ring of three wishes example item. Let him know and I think you can get this whole thing cleared up.
    As I said, I cleared it up with the DM and made sure he realized it was a houserule, and not within the normal rules, he said that he was keeping the rule anyway. This was more a thread for me to get an idea of when items like this should become available from a DMing perspective, so I can avoid issues like that in my games.

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    That said, another +1 to your save DCs is overrated when most of the good spells don't even have saves. I'd be crafting a staff if I were you for moar spells; especially spammable and/or situational ones like wall of force (though I'd also prepare this one), divinations, force cage (often need 0 to save money, often need 4 to just plain win), stoneskin (since you need to wait for a 1-2 hour mission to use it at all and then you tag the whole party), greater teleport (never know how many you'll need), etc. Don't worry about charges never in my life have I had them run out. Ditto on material component costs; even if spamming a few will be plenty for the brief challenges that make up D&D.
    Staff crafting isn't a half bad idea if I can get my DM to allow custom staff creation. That said, we're on an extended mission if you will. We're in the underdark, with environmental forces limiting teleport spells and long range communication like sending. There's no market down here to buy scrolls from, so I'm limited to my 4 spells per level to add to my spellbook.

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    But since you already have craft wondrous item anyway I'd make some +6 strength items for the melee; they'll get a lot more mileage out of it. And +4 of various other stats for the whole party. Maybe some flight providing magic items or whatever other wondrous utility stuff they need. Come to think of it, dust of disappearance is a pretty awesomesauce 1750 gp "we win" button for tough fights. In case your DM is rules fuzzy give him this so the monsters at least have half a chance: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbi...m#invisibility
    Actually, over the last 2 months or so, both our melee quit (not from dislike of the game, but due to RL commitments), so we're a party of a wizard, a druid, and 2 clerics.
    World of Madius wiki - My personal campaign setting, including my homebrew Optional Gestalt/LA rules.
    The new Quick Vestige List

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazyan View Post
    Playing a wizard the way GitP says wizards should be played requires the equivalent time and effort investment of a university minor. Do you really want to go down this rabbit hole, or are you comfortable with just throwing a souped-up Orb of Fire at the thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by atemu1234 View Post
    Humans are rarely truly irrational, just wrong.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kelb_Panthera's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    FWIW, magic item compendium has +2 stat boosters as an 8th level item, +4 at 14th, and +6 at 17th, but also notes that you could get them at 6, 12, and 15 without it being wholly inappropriate.
    I am not seaweed. That's a B.

    Praise I've received
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
    Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.
    Quote Originally Posted by LTwerewolf View Post
    [...] bringing Kelb in on your side in a rules fight is like bringing Mike Tyson in on your side to fight a toddler. You can, but it's such massive overkill.
    A quick outline on building a homebrew campaign

    Avatar by Tiffanie Lirle

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    So then I assume neither of the clerics is melee? Utility wondrous items are still nice because arcane casters can do a lot of things that divine can't.

    Out of the premade staffs divination, evocation, life and transmutation are great. Passage too but you can't use it. And the ok ones are abjuration, charming, frost, ilusion and size alteration. Not making any comments about the schools themselves just the spells those staffs happened to get.

    In generally I think bringing in super expensive items isn't only something that the DM will want to avoid. It's also a sub-par strategy that every player should avoid. Blowing 1/3 of your money on a slight stat bump is a patently bad idea. It's usually stronger to get lots of smaller items. So I think asking the lowest level when it's ok to get an item is the wrong question. You should be asking when have you exhausted all other options that apply directly to your character's power, and so have no choice but to upgrade existing items to proceed further.

    That is to say: having 2-5 strong combat spell options, all the cheap utility you can get, a slew of hour/level buffs kept up 24 hours (via lesser rods of extend spell or wands, for example), all your major ability scores, a little AC (especially touch AC) because the first dirt cheap +1 or +2 per item for effectively a 5-10% miss chance per +1 is a good deal even on a clothie. Only after you've gotten low level versions of every one of those then you upgrade every single one a little bit. It's true getting too many non-stacking items of the same kind is redundant, but you want to get as many items as possible that you can use at the same time before making any of them stronger. Because the cost of boosting one item is quadratic while adding on new ones is linear.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2013-11-13 at 11:36 PM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    The DMG page 126 gives NPC wizards +2 at 12th, +4 at 15th, and +6 at 17th.

    The DMG's example NPCs are very poorly built, but, you ant a guide line, there you go.

    The NPC fighter gets +6 at 19th.

    Druid 11th,14th,17th

    Cleric 10th, 14th, 17th


    But lets look closer at wizard:
    Amulet +1, bracers +3, ring +1, mundane melee, mwk ranged, headband of intellect +2, 9,700 gp

    Seriously? Not one metamagic rod? He focused on AC? Seriously?

    A spellcaster's save DC is increased by one thing, your primary stat. You need to increase that stat. Period. No question. Spellcasters live and die on the save DC.

    If your DM expects you get magic items at the speed of the NPCs, then he expects you to be as stupid as the NPCs.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2012

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    NPC wealth is considerably less than WBL.

    Don't forget that any cleric or divine caster with Turn/rebuke undead can have a 24h +4 to those attributes that interest him by level 3.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What level should ability modifier items open up

    Crake, I would have to say that the idea your dm is using for level to ability modifier is pretty well balanced, hence at levels 3,6,9,12,15,18 you will get access to stat boosting items from +1 to +6.

    That being said the bonus of the weapon can be matched by magical properties,
    ranging from +1 to +5 ie a +5 longsword could also have the vorpal property added.

    Starting at level 21, epics you should realize that all goes out the window as you enter the broke as hell zone.
    Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, as you are crunchy and good with hot sauce.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •