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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    Try as I might I'm not finding many references to ley lines in the Faerun books, or any books for that matter.

    Are there mechanics or even fluff for ley lines in D&D?

    I'm trying to get some maps of Faerun printed off and some transparencies and markers gathered up so I can draw some 'lines that align by chance' of my own.

    Figure I'll connect different features in different colors of marker on different transparencies and see what intersections and convergences I can come up with.

    Not sure what all to connect that could be of magical significance though.
    Mountains, lakes, river mouths, volcanoes, underdark links, vital resources, hearts of forests. What else?

    General discussion of ley lines and how they do or would work in D&D welcome.

    Edit: Found some!
    Node Genesis (Un59, CoR33) (and by association all Faerun Node material)
    Geomancer (MotW60, CDi41)
    Last edited by unseenmage; 2013-11-13 at 06:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    Huh. One would think Faerun would be the place they are used. Didn't the 3.0 book Magic of Faerun have something on that? Or was that fey crossroads?
    Last edited by Doc_Maynot; 2013-11-13 at 05:47 PM.
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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    I don't recall there being any mention of ley lines in any official D&D book. As far as i know they just don't exist in the setting.
    If you can get your hands on it there is a Shadowrun book called Parageology that's almost completely dedicated to the concept that you could use since the fluff fits pretty well.

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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    I do wonder if they were a thing in 2nd edition or before.

    I have some maps ready, just waiting to get my hands on some transparencies and then I'll divine some leylines.

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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    I'd actually be psyched to see those done up by someone. Hope you post a link to your divining.
    Last edited by Doc_Maynot; 2013-11-14 at 05:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    An Animated Object is a kind of creature. An animated object is a kind of item. So no, you can't apply a template. Unless you were to use animate objects to animate objects into Animated Objects and somehow apply templates while using animate objects to turn animate objects into Animate Objects for your Animated animated Object collection (or perhaps for a friend to watch anime with).

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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Maynot View Post
    I'd actually be psyched to see those done up by someone. Hope you post a link to your divining.
    I intend to. Right now I have two maps, one of Faerun as a whole, and another similar map (nearly identical) except that it shows trade routes and the locations of raw resources. (Holy crud I just used the word "raw" in a sentence on these boards and it's not even capitalized!)

    Figure I'll using both maps could show more lines of correlation. We'll see how it goes. I don't meet with the group who'll be using these till the middle/end of next week though so it might be a while before I get them worked up.

    Edit: More suggestions for terrain features to connect the dots with are more than welcome.

    I really wish i had a map of all the lagest/most ancient battles, or all the locations where the weave has been torn etc.
    Last edited by unseenmage; 2013-11-14 at 05:54 PM.

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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    Transparencies got ordered last week, waiting for them to come in. I should have a workable leylines map up sometime next week.

    My apologies to anyone who is waiting on my slowness.

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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    I had ley lines in my homebrew campaign setting, they were the prison bars for the old gods that were trapped within the planet, and began leaking corrupting influence when they were weakened.
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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    On Other settings: The awesome setting with horrible mechanics, Palladium's Rifts -- had ley-lines playing an integral part of the world.
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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    Conceptually, you can look at ley lines as both cause and effect to get an idea for where they fall, depending on how you view ley lines.

    For example, ley lines are sort of the magical circulatory system of the world. Thus, magical or intelligent creatures are likely to instinctively follow or congregate around them, or to instinctively avoid them (depending on how you play them). That would be the "cause" part of the system. Thus, you could simply infer that major cities, centers of arcane study or activity, or places of bizarre nature, constitute major nexuses (nexi?) of ley lines intersecting. That would be the "effect" part.

    Once you have your map of ley nexuses, you start connecting them. In theory, geographical features develop around the ley lines, not in spite of them. Thus, a ley line might steer around a mountain, or parallel to a lake; they won't just cross natural features willy-nilly. This also means that ley lines will often overlap with roads, which are similarly designed to steer around natural obstacles rather than through them.

    If you follow this method, you will see minor ley lines traveling from the major cities along the major roads. That's fine and to be expected - traveling spellcasters tapping into their power will feel comfortable in those cities and on those roads. The major ley lines, however, should be off the beaten path. A massive, thundering mountain or volcano; a turbulent sea; an island in the middle of a lake. Since ley lines constitute both the magical energy and life energy of the world, they should have unusual magical creatures and be exceptionally vibrant locales.

    Remember, however, that arcane scholars will be quick to settle in and study such places. And where mages go, merchants and knights follow. And where merchants and knights follow, civilization soon encroaches. And soon you get cities along the major ley lines... And so it goes.

    Just a thought.
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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    The Raiven Anwell spirit for the d20r druid deals with leylines in its mechanics. It is a pretty powerful ability.

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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Maynot View Post
    Huh. One would think Faerun would be the place they are used. Didn't the 3.0 book Magic of Faerun have something on that? Or was that fey crossroads?
    You might be thinking of the Highways and Byways.

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    Try as I might I'm not finding many references to ley lines in the Faerun books, or any books for that matter.

    Are there mechanics or even fluff for ley lines in D&D?

    Not sure what all to connect that could be of magical significance though.
    Mountains, lakes, river mouths, volcanoes, underdark links, vital resources, hearts of forests. What else?

    Edit: Found some!
    Node Genesis (Un59, CoR33) (and by association all Faerun Node material)
    Geomancer (MotW60, CDi41)
    Check the front of the MM4 as well as Return to Temple of Elemental Evil. Both of those use 'nodes' of some sort.

    Connect locations of note? The Chaos Hound entry in CoR has an entry about him creating a class 7 evil node in Waterdeep because he took a nap there. Maybe another Node where Mystra died in Time of Troubles, or where Karsus stood during his failed apotheosis.
    In faerun I imagine the leylines as being the strands of The Weave. if you've got a lot of earth strands, spells with the [Earth] descriptor are boosted. Or maybe there's an area where all spells of a specific school are boosted, or weakened. And yeah, I personally imagine the strands as all coming from the nodes and connecting each other. Not one to every other, or even one to its closest neighbors, but a lot of connections.
    I also imagine the leylines/nodes as being things which must be guarded. Abusing them, say drawing too much power from a fire node (I know, only earth and evil nodes are in the rules, but expanding to air/water/fire makes sense to me) could turn the node into a planar rift.
    And yeah, a planar rift to the plane of fire is probably a bad thing. Maybe the sort of thing that turns an entire country to glass.

    I even wrote a prestige class based on preventing that. Check The Mancer in my sig. Still in playtest though.

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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    The transparencies have arrived! Work shall begin on the leylines map this week.

    I have three maps of Faerun to draw on. The basic map with named locations, a map of resources and trade, and a map of the Underdark.

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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    Sounds like a fun project. Will the transparencies be generally available at some point? I'd love to see what you come up with.

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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Sounds like a fun project. Will the transparencies be generally available at some point? I'd love to see what you come up with.
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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Maynot View Post
    Huh. One would think Faerun would be the place they are used. Didn't the 3.0 book Magic of Faerun have something on that? Or was that fey crossroads?
    IIRC, you are indeed thinking of the Fey Crossroads. I wouldn't be surprised if they developed from a similar idea, but function as a big middle finger to parties without teleport rather then concentrated magic (Which I assume the OP is after).

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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    Originally Posted by Doc_Maynot
    One would think Faerun would be the place they are used. Didn't the 3.0 book Magic of Faerun have something on that? Or was that fey crossroads?
    Originally Posted by herrhauptmann
    You might be thinking of the Highways and Byways.
    Magic of Faerūn has a section on "Crossroads and Backroads" (pp. 44-46), which are described as "mystical roads of geomagical energy," a decent enough description of ley-lines. In practice they tend to work like hyperspace conduits: messages or travelers pass instantaneously from one point to another--sometimes intentionally, sometimes not. (And the text even makes an oblique reference to the classic SF description of hyperspace.)

    Oddly enough, there's no mention of any other uses for them, such as drawing energy from them or enhancing certain spells. Should be easy enough to tack on if you like, though.

    Originally Posted by herrhauptmann
    I also imagine the leylines/nodes as being things which must be guarded.
    And in fact, p. 45 has a section on guardians, which must be placated, mollified or otherwise impressed before their particular snippet of crossroads may be traveled.

    Also, unseenmage, there's a list of major access points to the crossroads on p. 46, with locations and subsidiary links. Not a full map, but at least a place to start. Didn't know if you'd seen that or not.

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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Also, unseenmage, there's a list of major access points to the crossroads on p. 46, with locations and subsidiary links. Not a full map, but at least a place to start. Didn't know if you'd seen that or not.
    Oh! No I had not seen that yet. Thanks for the heads up! Looking now.

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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    Okay, I have two types of maps transparencied; maps of points (Crossroads, trade centers, mythals) and maps of flow (forests, mountain ranges, rivers, roads, trade routes).

    I should have them scanned and uploaded sometime in the next week or two. Sorry this is taking me so long to finish. We had a funeral last weekend and that set a lot of projects back a bit.

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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out. The idea of leylines has always interested me, and I've lately been curious to see how they could be incorporated into this kind of setting.
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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    the concept of leylines is pretty much the weave in FR. proximity to where the Weave is present allows magic, get closer to the source, and they it can get stronger, go to where the weave is weakened, or gone results in weaker or no magic at all.

    there are locations throughout FR where the weave has been torn, most of them are from large wars where the amount of powerful magic being cast simply tore it apart. Other locations were intentionally weakened by foul arts (see the cormyr>shadowdale>anaruoch campaign modules).

    Mystra is the goddess of magic in FR, and she is responsible for the weave.
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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Totema View Post
    I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out. The idea of leylines has always interested me, and I've lately been curious to see how they could be incorporated into this kind of setting.
    Right now i'm just mapping their positions, I havn't even given any thought to how they'd be implemented rules-wise.

    If you have any ideas on that front please feel free to share them.

    Just typing the above I've considered that they could be Mythal-like or Fey Crossroads (MoF) like. Using the Planar traits table for planar magic might be possible too (MotP/PlH).
    What rules would be appropriate to employ would be dependent largely on whether one uses the lines-of-force or the hubs-of-lines-of-force as the true places of power too.

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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Magic of Faerūn has a section on "Crossroads and Backroads" (pp. 44-46), which are described as "mystical roads of geomagical energy," a decent enough description of ley-lines. In practice they tend to work like hyperspace conduits: messages or travelers pass instantaneously from one point to another--sometimes intentionally, sometimes not. (And the text even makes an oblique reference to the classic SF description of hyperspace.)

    Oddly enough, there's no mention of any other uses for them, such as drawing energy from them or enhancing certain spells. Should be easy enough to tack on if you like, though.
    Combo them with Earth Magic Nodes (Underdark book has information on them, and evil versions are in Champions of Ruin) and assign each crossroad/backroad a Node level (usually from 1st to 9th - 10th level nodes and higher are in the realm of epic magic).

    You'll need the Node Spellcasting feat to make use of them, but tapping into ley lines is often serious business (e.g. Birthright), so it makes sense to me that you'd need some investment in the option.
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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    Originally Posted by Alleran
    You'll need the Node Spellcasting feat to make use of them, but tapping into ley lines is often serious business (e.g. Birthright), so it makes sense to me that you'd need some investment in the option.
    True, but it also means that a character would need to spend a feat slot to access a source of power which he may or may not spend much time around. Unless ley-lines are effectively everywhere, not everyone will see this as a good investment. It depends on the density of ley-lines across the landscape and the benefits they provide.

    Originally Posted by unseenmage
    I havn't even given any thought to how they'd be implemented rules-wise. ...I've considered that they could be Mythal-like....
    I think the mythal approach gives you the opportunity to provide benefits to a broader range of spellcasters. Say each particular ley-line grants a certain benefit to anyone casting within its effective gradient--maybe a +1 CL on electricity spells, or a doubling of the range for Dimension Door if you 'port along the ley-line, or an extra d4 on healing spells, etc. I would see the ley-lines as being extremely narrow, just broad enough for a single person, and not always easy to find--perhaps a Detect Ley-Lines cantrip, so there's a slight investment in finding and casting from one.

    Casting at a convergence of ley-lines would provide the benefits of each component strand, but there should also be some emergent effect which can only be tapped right there at the hub--something a little more spectacular. This, in fact, would be a good place for Node Spellcasting or something like it, since it makes sense that those who seek out and specialize in convergences would devote a feat to it.

    So maybe a two-tiered approach: a basic benefit from each ley-line, a slight and very specific boost in power to anyone who spends a cantrip and the time to locate a ley-line; and more powerful benefits from casting at a convergence of ley-lines, which would require a feat to access in full.

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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    True, but it also means that a character would need to spend a feat slot to access a source of power which he may or may not spend much time around.
    Um... yes? I'm not sure how this goes against anything I said.
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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    Originally Posted by Alleran
    Um... yes? I'm not sure how this goes against anything I said.
    I actually like the suggestions you made from a mechanical point of view, in terms of assigning them node levels, but they seemed to limit access to only those who invest in a feat. What I'm suggesting is to make minor benefits available to any spellcaster, without the need for a feat, and to grant additional and perhaps more complex benefits to those who do take Node Spellcasting or a similar feat.

    A lot of it depends on how unseenmage wants to define the ley-lines. I'm assuming they'd be slender, for instance, literally threads of energy which you'd need to be within arm's reach of to actually tap into. That's an assumption of mine, and unseenmage might want to present them as broader ribbons which have an actual area along their length.

    That might open up other possibilities, especially when the ley-ribbons overlap to create a hub. That really might work as a mini-mythal, either as a natural merging of traits or perhaps deliberately engineered over the millennia to a particular spellcaster's taste.

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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I actually like the suggestions you made from a mechanical point of view, in terms of assigning them node levels, but they seemed to limit access to only those who invest in a feat. What I'm suggesting is to make minor benefits available to any spellcaster, without the need for a feat, and to grant additional and perhaps more complex benefits to those who do take Node Spellcasting or a similar feat.
    Any spellcaster already can, though. The feat means you use Spellcraft checks instead of Intelligence checks for things like drawing power to boost caster levels, and allows you to access the spells granted by the node itself.

    Hence my confusion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slipperychicken View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy View Post
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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    Eladrinblade has suggested the use of the Ley Lines system found in Heroes of High Favor: ELVES from Badax Games.

    Looks like it's an Item Creation feat that lets you pull power to a point creating a node then ancillary benefits from there.

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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    Some very rough leylines maps are done all except for some final editing. Should have that done this week though a brewing cold might delay them yet again.

    I really like the flow of the latest version.

    For those curious what I did was to use transparencies and wet erase markers to plot locations of interest and draw lines connecting concentrations of those places.

    Roads, trade routes, mythals, Fey Crossroads, concentrations of trade goods, minerals, farming, forests, rivers, mountain ranges, Underdark sites. These and more were layered on top of each other and where they overlapped or concentrated was marked. Then those marks were combined into a system of flowing lines that interconnect and run together across the map.

    The result is my approximation of what the leylines of Faerun would look like. It's purely an artistic endeavor based very little on fact and with only the sketchiest of understandings of the lore. I literally just connected dots and lines using the Faerun maps. It still looks cool though.

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    Default Re: Ley Lines in Faerun? Other settings?

    I... dropped the ball on this one. Hard.

    See, I finished the project about as far as my amateurish hand could take it then forgot about it. For years.
    Images have just languished there in their file labelled 'leylines' unused and unremembered.

    My apologies. Here they are at last, enjoy and good luck.

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