Interesting Chaotic Evil characters

[Harbinger]

CE seems to be perceived as the alignment of one note card-carrying villains and cartoon bad guys. I think CE can be a very interesting alignment, so it'd be interesting to hear other peoples thoughts. Can anyone think of examples of interesting, three-dimensional characters who are CE?

The two examples that immediately spring to mind for me are Hanharr from the second Knights of the Old Republic video game, and the Comedian, from Watchmen. The first because of his reasoning behind his savagery, and the second because, despite the horrible things he did, it's still possible to empathize with him.

[Piedmon_Sama]

Really to me Chaotic Evil is the go-to alignment of mercenaries, raiders, pirates--all of whom can be described as "adventurers." At a basic remove the act of adventuring, of going out and killing things and taking its stuff, is a chaotic evil enterprise. Honestly not only is Chaotic Evil far from "the most difficult" alignment to work into an adventuring party, to me it seems like the most natural alignment for people interested in that type of work.

[Pex]

Skeletor - He-Man cartoon remake

When they redid He-Man they put sincere effort into it. It's still a kid show, but it is not corny. Cringer doesn't talk. Orko is used minimally. They gave a lot of back story to know what is going on. Skeletor will do evil things because he relishes his evilness, but that is the nature of kid shows. Skeletor himself is a genius. His schemes make a lot of sense only to be foiled by He-Man Ex Machina. Sometimes even He-Man needs Friend of the Day Ex Machina. I was disappointed the third and last season focused on King Hiss. Skeletor was fun to watch.

[Anxe]

The Comedian is probably a bad pick as an example. While his outlook might be CE, his actions speak otherwise. He worked for the government throughout his life (Lawful) and he was often doing this for the good of the people. I'd put him at CN myself.

Not the point of this thread though! (Or is it? I don't know)
Slade from Teen Titans
Roose Bolton from Game of Thrones
Joffrey from Game of Thrones too
Cersei from Game of Thrones
Half the freaking characters from Game of Thrones

[Harbinger]

The Comedian is probably a bad pick as an example. While his outlook might be CE, his actions speak otherwise. He worked for the government throughout his life (Lawful) and he was often doing this for the good of the people. I'd put him at CN myself.

He wasn't really doing it for the good of the people, though. He was doing it because he wanted to, and he only worked for the government because working for them gave him the chance to do what he enjoyed. He also shot a pregnant woman and tried to rape the Silk Spectre, both of which are pretty major evil actions. And discussing the Comedian's alignment seems to fall under the purpose of this thread, so no worries there.

Slade always seemed more NE to me, though I admit to not having seen the show in a long time (assuming you're talking about the show, because you called him Slade and not Deathstroke).

[genderlich]

At the moment, I'm playing a Chaotic Evil Elf Antipaladin. He's a monster to the core, but presents himself as an actual Paladin (complete with radiant white armor) because that's what he believes himself to be, it's just that his god is the god of slaughter. He's anything but a mindless killing machine, because he's smart enough to realize that just killing people left and right will quickly lead to his death. Instead, to meet his quota of innocent blood for his god, he covertly spreads leprosy in any town he finds himself in. (Edit: The best part is that the 2d4 week incubation period means nobody will ever link it to him!) He's rather polite and seems good-natured until he makes some comment about how delicious he finds human children. Currently he's on a pirate ship, since that seems like the best way to easily kill large numbers of people.

[Harbinger]

At the moment, I'm playing a Chaotic Evil Elf Antipaladin. He's a monster to the core, but presents himself as an actual Paladin (complete with radiant white armor) because that's what he believes himself to be, it's just that his god is the god of slaughter. He's anything but a mindless killing machine, because he's smart enough to realize that just killing people left and right will quickly lead to his death. Instead, to meet his quota of innocent blood for his god, he covertly spreads leprosy in any town he finds himself in. He's rather polite and seems good-natured until he makes some comment about how delicious he finds human children. Currently he's on a pirate ship, since that seems like the best way to easily kill large numbers of people.

That sounds like a lot of fun, and that sounds like a great character. A smart psychopath who kills subtly is so much more unnerving than someone who kills randomly people in the street.

One of the best characters I've ever made was a CE gnoll ranger/barb. In the setting he lived in, gnolls were a nomadic race who lived in the desert and coexisted peacefully with humans. This guy though, (his name was Navunaji) decided that humans were a whole lot easier to kill and eat than wild animals, so he started sneaking into human towns and night and killing people in their beds. When his tribe found out, he fled and ended up in a forest, conveniently located next to a few unsuspecting human villages.

He was an anarchist and thought that society restrained people, but he had a rudimentary honor system. He despised thrill-killers, those who killed for pleasure, because he considered life valuable and thought taking it without reason was an evil act. Of course, killing for food, acquisition of resources, etc was fine. He also hated undead, partially because he thought they were disgusting perversions of nature and partially because he didn't understand them.

Sadly, I never got the chance to play that character, as the game he was going to be in shriveled up and died. I still have his sheet though, and hope to one day play him.

[Scow2]

Dangit... I need to work on the lyrics for the Party Vrock Anthem.

[The Fury]

Wow, nobody's mentioned The Joker? Too obvious maybe. Just about any version of him probably qualifies as Chaotic Evil and the typical portrayal puts an interesting spin on it. Going from charming, to total Loony Tunes, to murderous. Most stories seem to imply that even he's not totally sure what he's out to accomplish. Then there's that memorable laugh of his...

Admittedly trying to roleplay someone like that would be problematic.

[Tengu_temp]

Yeah, I'd mention the Joker too. Also Kefka from Final Fantasy 6.

Really to me Chaotic Evil is the go-to alignment of mercenaries, raiders, pirates--all of whom can be described as "adventurers." At a basic remove the act of adventuring, of going out and killing things and taking its stuff, is a chaotic evil enterprise. Honestly not only is Chaotic Evil far from "the most difficult" alignment to work into an adventuring party, to me it seems like the most natural alignment for people interested in that type of work.

Oh hey, the murder hobos fallacy again. There's a difference between raiding a village for loot and killing raiders who attacked a village for loot. If your good/neutral characters are going around and killing anything they encounter, you're doing it wrong.

[Blightedmarsh]

An unselee pack warlock who is deceptive and manipulative but who cant lie or break promises because he is in bed with the fey.

He believes that good and evil are in balance. You can't ever defeat good and you can't destroy evil. The balance shifts this way and that but its globally stable and overtime shifts back to its rest state.

Under his world view the best you can manage is to change the way that good or evil is expressed and that is his goal. He wishes to create a brothers grim style fairly tale kingdom where purity is allowed to flourish, the wicked are allowed to fester and there is a strong contrast. As he puts it "Just a plane old sunrise on a clear day is boring "You put some clouds up there and you set the sky on fire; set my soul on fire".

Other than that he hates aberrations. He got into bed with the unselee so that they could help him destroy his home town and kill or enslave most of his friends, family and neighbors as the town was being infiltrated by deep ones.

He is also trying to wheedle his way out of certain contractual obligations to his masters. He set up his oaths so that there was a loophole; albe it very odious to him. The fey of course saw right through it but let it pass because they knew it would be entertaining to watch what this proud man is forcing himself to do; just as our warlock was counting on.

[Anxe]

I was avoiding the Joker because I don't really see him as a realistic character. Even the Dark Knight movies admit this by saying he doesn't exist within the Gotham Police records. Still, if we're including people like the Joker then we might as well include Sephiroth. Both are into destroying the world basically just because.

And for The Comedian being more goodish I was thinking of the riot scene where he says they have to protect the people from themselves. You're right though, there's a lot more evil actions than good. I guess I would go with CE after all.

[BWR]

Several of the Darklords in Ravenloft.

Strahd, for instance. He is aristocratic, cultured and can be a charming host. However, he is the boss and never allows anyone to challenge his rule. He is callous, cruel and entirely self-absorbed. Absolutely nothing else matters but Tatyana, the woman he became obsessed with.
The humans in his realm he allows to live and be heavily taxed. As long as there are enough for him to sup on, he doesn't really care. Attacks on them are more like vandalism than anything else.


I'd say the most important part of Chaotic Evil is the need to be on top. Lust for power, dominance and subjgating everyone else. Nothing matters but forcing your will on the world. The only laws that matter are the ones you make yourself. The only people that matter are the ones you decide. People are either subjects or enemies (or potentials of either).
Chaotic evil does not need to be insane like the Joker, nor does it need to be a liar - some CE people have their own code, but it is entirely self-absorbed. It would rather destroy the world than allow others to dictate how it should live.

[The Oni]

Haven't yet had the opportunity to play such a character. I did however write an NPC into one of my True Neutral character's backstories named Inquisitor Surtup, a Dwarven ex-servant of Abadar who will of course be appearing in the game later.

The Inquisitor has, quite simply, lost his ever-loving mind, because he's an old devout soldier of the faith (Abadar's faith in this case) but through a combination of The Ends Justify The Means and simple senility, he's become a real piece of work. My character is a Tiefling (Oni, specifically) Barbarian, and his heritage manifested as having huge, bulky arms. When he was captured as a young man (grown by Barbarian standards, a boy by most other's) and Abadar's paladins attempted to "civilize" him, Surtup was one of his instructors.

Surtup decided that his infernal taint resided in his arms and that it must be purged by fire. He shackled one of the Tiefling's arms to a table one day and burned it clear off with a divine spell that made regeneration impossible. The Paladins then burst in, now possessing evidence of Surtup's corruption, and excommunicated him from the church of Abadar. (It was later revealed that this whole arrangement was designed to confirm Surtup's psychosis by the paladins, and they had just used my character as bait.)

The truth was, though, Abadar stopped talking to Surtup ages ago. Whatever's granting him his spells now reassures him that yes, he did do the right thing, and should continue his mission to purge "evil" from the world, even if that means burning people alive. Especially if it means burning people alive.

[123456789blaaa]

Several of the Darklords in Ravenloft.

Strahd, for instance. He is aristocratic, cultured and can be a charming host. However, he is the boss and never allows anyone to challenge his rule. He is callous, cruel and entirely self-absorbed. Absolutely nothing else matters but Tatyana, the woman he became obsessed with.
The humans in his realm he allows to live and be heavily taxed. As long as there are enough for him to sup on, he doesn't really care. Attacks on them are more like vandalism than anything else.


I'd say the most important part of Chaotic Evil is the need to be on top. Lust for power, dominance and subjgating everyone else. Nothing matters but forcing your will on the world. The only laws that matter are the ones you make yourself. The only people that matter are the ones you decide. People are either subjects or enemies (or potentials of either).
Chaotic evil does not need to be insane like the Joker, nor does it need to be a liar - some CE people have their own code, but it is entirely self-absorbed. It would rather destroy the world than allow others to dictate how it should live.

That sounds quite Lawful Evil to me as well (see: Asmodeus, the Blood Queen, etc). .

[The_Werebear]

Jayne, of Firefly and Serenity, is Chaotic Evil in my book. He's treacherous, violent, self interested, and to some degree enjoys getting to hurt people. The important thing to remember when dipping into the evil alignments is that even bad people can have friends and loved ones. That's something that I think Firefly did very well. If you have seen it (as you should), example to follow.

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Sure, Jayne's willing to sell out his fellow crew members for the bounty, but he is still embarrassed about it because it upset his friends. While he wasn't repentant, he knew he had still let Mal, a friend, down and was upset enough to ask him to lie about it for him so he'd at least be well remembered.

[The Oni]

Evil itself is the need to be on top. The need to force your will on others, take what should be rightfully yours, etc. etc.

Lawful Evil is planned, methodical, goal-oriented; they'll take three steps back if it will get them five steps forward. Chaotic Evil is impulsive, direct, and progress-oriented. Neutral Evil takes whichever approach they feel works better at the time. Bane is Lawful Evil; the Joker is Chaotic Evil.

[BWR]

That sounds quite Lawful Evil to me as well (see: Asmodeus, the Blood Queen, etc). .

And the tanar'ri don't want to dominate everything?

The point is the need to be on top and not work with anyone else. CE is pretty much the poster child for 'does not play well with others'. LE works within a system. Sure, they may game the system or change it to suit themselves and be backstabbing bastards, but they want a system.

CE at heart accepts no law or system other than their own. They may be forced to work with others and be cunning and possibly work in a system but that is out of necessity or possibly even convenience, not out of any belief that the system is good or useful in itself.

[ExtravagantEvil]

A character I've always wanted to play but never gotten the opportunity to try and play at the table.

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Urag was an orc. He was a good orc. He pillaged like a good orc, He raped and killed and plundered with the best. He was a very, very good orc.
He was, some say, the best orc in his tribe.
He swung his sword high and low and bodies dropped about him like flies in a frog pond.
One day, Urag was raiding a small village, full of nobodies. Farmers, Drunks, and Weaklings of all fleshy pink sorts. He was fighting a guard, one head smaller than him and the guards body was half as thick as Urag's arm. The little twig knew how to dodge better than his fellow guards at least. But, this fight wasn't like any other fight. Urag, in all his experience, noticed interesting things about this lowly guard with every step and parry that the little twig attempted.
He knew that guard better than he knew some of his clansmen in that scuffle, and when the twig finally fell to the ground, quaking with fear, Urag looked him dead in the eyes, and saw the man's life in all of it's weak but pitiful glory before him. His children, the days on the farm, the little twig's hopes and fears in every twitch, and in every portion of his eyes.

Here, Urag was not a good orc. He hesitated. In that moment, he felt a crack at the base of his skull. He saw black.

Urag awoke to find his clansmen had passed on, counting him among the dead and the damned. The village was burned clean, the bodies piled, and everything was gone.

Urag knew, that he was no longer a good Orc. Urag was weak. Urag knew what is called by many as "empathy". Urag saw a man, not an obstacle. He took a small rag that he found amid the chunk of charcoal, covered his eyes, and vowed to never look an opponent in the eyes again, never to see more than a shadow that must be dealt with. Learn to know his opponent as an object, rather than a creature.

The character is about the removal of empathy, and the idea of removing any value from anything, in the name of his own individualistic blood lust, and sense of identity. It's the tale of a man who sees Chaotic Evil as the only path of life, and the only path that matters. However, it is a murderer straying from the path of individualistic violence, and showing concern. Everyone must be a possible target, and only his safety is valued, and by ignoring and shutting out empathy, can he be the proper individual he has to be.

[Vamphyr]

I've always really wanted to play CE in a campaign. It's a very nuanced alignment with a lot of great roleplay potential that gets shut down by most DMs because they don't truly understand how it could work.

I talked with one of my old DMs about playing CE and he told me about one evil campaign he played in. He and his friend made CE characters and over the course of the first session murdered everyone for their stuff.

Just another example of a one dimensional character who's only backbone was the concept "chaotic stupid" ruining the rep of chaotic evil everywhere.

[Khay]

J. D. Thorne from Tron 2.0 is at least sort of interesting. He's a personified computer virus / an improperly digitalized human being and sort of upset about this. The process more or less drove him mad and he's trying to spread the corruption to alleviate his pain somewhat and get back at those whom he feels are responsible for his fate. Also has an interesting dynamic with the Kernel, who is a dark shade of Lawful Neutral.

Urag

Iiiinteresting. A very different and much more dramatic track than the "comically exaggerated violent sociopathy" variety of CE, at least. (Possibly also an example of "learning the wrong lesson".

[123456789blaaa]

And the tanar'ri don't want to dominate everything?

The point is the need to be on top and not work with anyone else. CE is pretty much the poster child for 'does not play well with others'. LE works within a system. Sure, they may game the system or change it to suit themselves and be backstabbing bastards, but they want a system.

CE at heart accepts no law or system other than their own. They may be forced to work with others and be cunning and possibly work in a system but that is out of necessity or possibly even convenience, not out of any belief that the system is good or useful in itself.

First off, no not all of them. Many demons simply want to destroy (Juiblex, Turglas etc). Second:

That sounds quite Lawful Evil to me as well (see: Asmodeus, the Blood Queen, etc). .

I also don't think CE needs to be forced or incentivised to work with other people. There's nothing about CE that stops the character from enjoying working with other people. They just don't like being forced to do so (by "the system" or otherwise).

[Khay]

Oh, I forgot one! The main villain of Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura, who is

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not Arronax, but Kerghan, inventor of necromancy. He has done a lot of research into the afterlife, and how to bring bodies souls back from there. He eventually was banished to a prison dimension of some sort, where he continued his research and eventually visited the afterlife himself. It turns out said afterlife is so peaceful that being alive basically means constantly being in pain - he finds life to be unendingly painful, belives life is a great mistake of the function of the universe, and has taken up the burden of ending it. The clincher is that one of your party members, who is also back from the dead, will confirm that Kerghan is exactly right about the afterlife. He's all about dominance and destruction to the point of being an omnicidal maniac, but he has a decent motivation for it.

[Trickquestion]

Sarevok, of Baldur's Gate, is a pretty good example of High Functioning Chaotic Evil.

[Harbinger]

Oh! I thought of another one: Patrick Bateman from American Psycho. He's so messed up and evil, yet I found it hard not to feel a twinge of empathy for him as he went totally off the deep end. On the same token, Norman Bates from Psycho.

[Piedmon_Sama]

Oh hey, the murder hobos fallacy again. There's a difference between raiding a village for loot and killing raiders who attacked a village for loot. If your good/neutral characters are going around and killing anything they encounter, you're doing it wrong.

Yeah playing a good character and indescriminately killing people sure would be weird. I have no idea what that has to do with what I said though.

[Tevesh]

I think that CE can be summed up with one word: Selfish.

Neutral will cooperate and Lawful definitely cooperates. Devils cooperate because it is their system that allows them to subjugate the multiverse. Demons just do whatever feels right now.

As long as your character is interesting and they are selfish, they've got a shot at being an interesting CE character. I think Graz'zt is a prime example. Demogorgon and Orcus as well.

The Comedian, I agree with being an interesting CE character. It reminds me of another villain. He liked killing, he was good at it so he would do anything to make sure he could keep killing. In the case of the Comedian, it meant selling out to the Government.

[Mastikator]

In D&D terms of morality Evil means sadistic and chaotic means not adhering to rules (personal or societal) and it means being spontaneous.

Combine these and you have a textbook psychopath, somebody who doesn't care about what anyone thinks, has no conscience, no self control and possibly wants to kill or hurt people (not all psychopaths are serial killers, not all CE are criminals, but there's a strong causal correlation).

Being interesting is somewhat subjective, but it always comes from having a depth of character, a race/class combo isn't interesting, nor a list of traits. There needs to be some kind of history that explains and leads up to the character today, it needs to make sense.

[The Fury]

I was avoiding the Joker because I don't really see him as a realistic character. Even the Dark Knight movies admit this by saying he doesn't exist within the Gotham Police records. Still, if we're including people like the Joker then we might as well include Sephiroth. Both are into destroying the world basically just because.

The Joker's admittedly not realistic, but then again this thread isn't about "Realistic Chaotic Evil Characters." That said, I thought some portrayals of the character were pretty clever and nuanced, like The Killing Joke.
As for Sephiroth-- well, your mileage may vary on this one but I always thought he was a little vanilla as bad guys go. But hey, I know plenty of people out there consider him one of the best video game villains ever written. If you're one of those people, more power to you.

I also don't think CE needs to be forced or incentivised to work with other people. There's nothing about CE that stops the character from enjoying working with other people. They just don't like being forced to do so (by "the system" or otherwise).

Agreed. Keep in mind working with others is generally more profitable than working on your own, especially in the long run. Going back to the Comedian, he really seemed to enjoy working for the government because he got to murder and brutalize people that the government didn't like, and he got paid for it!

[Kane0]

Freaky Fred struck me as a good example of a chaotic evil type that isnt a psychotic murderer.