Tactical Question - Haley

[The Oni]

Jacinda objects to your implications of Jacinda's private behavior.

I'm glad somebody caught my Khajit joke.

I'm just saying, she seemed a lot more likely to be promiscuous than Laurin, who's rockin' her Cleopatra cosplay in a white robe most conservative.

[Perseus]

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[Zmeoaice]

I tend to agree, Laurin doesn't appear to be especially promiscuous, so Haley wouldn't be getting any bonuses from it anyway even if she could fly. The catfolk gal, maybe - but she's elsweyr.

She rides a flying carpet. If any member of Tarquin's Team is going to be the flying tramp it's going to be Jacinda.

It could be Shoulder Pads guy since he's not wearing a shirt. But we haven't seen him fly, so I'm betting Jacinda.

[Ramien]

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Or, you know, pointing out that some jokes were never really funny to begin with.

[Zmeoaice]

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[jere7my]

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That's makes as much sense as elbow puppies nightflounder.

[Porthos]

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Clearly you didn't see the jokes in 1893-1923 that were the standard of the day toward women (or later for that matter).

The ones about suffragettes were... Well, Google for yourself. Especially the cartoons/propaganda against suffragettes back in the day.

Mind, I suggest not linking them back in this thread for several reasons.

[Zmeoaice]

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[Math_Mage]

As stated before, because it is a person suggesting as a joke that we, as a thought experiment guess the feelings of one fictional character about another.

If you can't see the difference between that and what you have suggested... I really don't know what to say.

Except the post doesn't say, "Would Haley think of Laurin not so much of a skank as a MILF?" It says, "Is Laurin not so much of a skank as a MILF?" It is requesting our opinion about Laurin, not Haley's--from the starting presumption that she is somewhere between tramp, skank, and MILF. Not cool.

What am I, chopped liver?

You're probably someone whose post he missed. Or the exception that proves the rule. I don't think it's necessarily inappropriate to describe a situation with one girl and thirty guys as "lacking girls."

No.

All jokes they say are offensive funny to anyone who isn't oversensitive

Bull. Some (not all) offensive jokes are otherwise unfunny; their value is only to people who think sensitivity is absurd. This is leaving aside that offensive jokes can fall flat just as inoffensive ones can.

[jere7my]

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Nope, sorry, still elbow puppies nightflounder. Some offensive jokes are actually funny, but a lot of them—including the one at the top of this thread, which barely qualifies as a joke and involves more stretching than my cat—just ain't.

[Zmeoaice]

Nope, sorry, still elbow puppies nightflounder. Some offensive jokes are actually funny, but a lot of them—including the one at the top of this thread, which barely qualifies as a joke and involves more stretching than my cat—just ain't.

But claiming that a joke isn't funny because it is offensive doesn't make the joke not funny.

But I agree the top comment wasn't funny because it was poorly made.

[Ramien]

But claiming that a joke isn't funny because it is offensive doesn't make the joke not funny.

But I agree the top comment wasn't funny because it was poorly made.

But claiming that

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is equally fallacious. Some things are rightfully called offensive, even by people who aren't oversensitive

[ti'esar]

Honestly, Laurin has attracted so much of this kind of discussion since her introduction, with so little in-comic basis for it, that I kind of feel like there's something deeper (and creepier) than just sexism going on.

[Megsie]

Since there does seem to be a shortage of womens' opinions, I'll add mine.

There are probably quite a few women who read these forums regularly but don't feel comfortable posting, some in part because of threads like this or the other one about Laurin. In that way, jere7my's analogy of making ridiculous quips like this one in the company of women one doesn't know well is right on the money.

Although I think that anyone who doesn't understand why the OP is objectionable right away is beyond having it explained to them, I'll add my vote to the pile in noting that it is, in fact, objectionable. It's also not funny because it's badly worded, over-explained, and relies on random suppositions that are not, in themselves, either likely or amusing.

[Porthos]

Probably can't really respond to this properly do to the nature of the Forum Rules and whatnot, so I think I will simply say that I do not agree with your objection here and leave it at that.

[Spoomeister]

I got the reference. Doesn't change the fact that a) Laurin has shown no sign of flying and b) the OP went beyond quoting Haley to throw in additional gender-based, slut-shaming insults. Seriously, am I the only person who thinks "Is she a skank or a MILF?" belongs on some frat-boy Maxim forums, not here?

I see a lot of dudes telling me I overreacted. I don't see a lot of women contributing to this thread.

I flagged one of the posts in the thread, to try to summon a mod, to see if this thread is the sort of discussion the forum owners are ok with. Whether or not this thread is locked in the next couple days should answer your question for you, in my opinion.

[Zmeoaice]

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[Kish]

All right, then. Since we're apparently allowed to do this,

Haley made the "Favored Enemy (Airborne Tramp)" joke.

...Yes, and? Are you suggesting that being a member of a group prevents her from being prejudiced against that group? (An ironic suggestion in a thread that's already mentioned Tsukiko the Living.)

In fact, I would say Haley has recently been dethroned as the most sexist character in the webcomic, by Tarquin. (Still has the title of the only one who's actually used the word "slut," unless I'm forgetting someone.) As I previously commented, there were any number of legitimate insults she could have thrown at Tsukiko; instead of any of them, she chose "skanky" and "tramp."

[Dragonus45]

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[Euclidodese]

Except the post doesn't say, "Would Haley think of Laurin not so much of a skank as a MILF?" It says, "Is Laurin not so much of a skank as a MILF?" It is requesting our opinion about Laurin, not Haley's--from the starting presumption that she is somewhere between tramp, skank, and MILF. Not cool.

No.
The question is: 'Does she qualify for the Airborne Skank Bonus.'
Since the bonus, and therefore the attributes needed to qualify for it exist purely in Haley's imagination, (since she invented the fictitious bonus, as a joke) this means: 'Does Haley categorize her as a skank?'

If the bonus was real (including home-brewed), you would be right. It isn't, so you are not.

[Dragonus45]

No.
The question is: 'Does she qualify for the Airborne Skank Bonus.'
Since the bonus, and therefore the attributes needed to qualify for it exist purely in Haley's imagination, (since she invented the fictitious bonus, as a joke) this means: 'Does Haley categorize her as a skank?'

If the bonus was real (including home-brewed), you would be right. It isn't, so you are not.

At that point your getting into a conversation about the thoughts of a fictional character, which means you are asking for a judgement from the people involved.

[Ramien]

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Really? This is the only discussion that I've seen like this. Well maybe the theory that her "favor" from Tarquin is sex, although that's more about Tarquin than Laurin.

How on earth do you think that claiming her favor would be sex says anything at all about Tarquin? It's putting thoughts in Laurin's head regarding how she views the world, and says a lot more about how Laurin is viewed than it ever could about Tarquin.

And yes, jokes can be too offensive to ever be considered funny, especially once they become removed from the original circle the joke was meant for. Context is a huge factor in humor, after all. Try telling the wrong joke at a funeral sometime and see how that goes for you. Any successful comedian will tell you that knowing your audience is an important part of humor. What can fly marginally in an all-male group, for example will often and rightly fall flat in mixed company, because it can be insulting to women. The original 'joke' in this thread is a good example of that.

[GrayGriffin]

How on earth do you think that claiming her favor would be sex says anything at all about Tarquin? It's putting thoughts in Laurin's head regarding how she views the world, and says a lot more about how Laurin is viewed than it ever could about Tarquin.

And yes, jokes can be too offensive to ever be considered funny, especially once they become removed from the original circle the joke was meant for. Context is a huge factor in humor, after all. Try telling the wrong joke at a funeral sometime and see how that goes for you. Any successful comedian will tell you that knowing your audience is an important part of humor. What can fly marginally in an all-male group, for example will often and rightly fall flat in mixed company, because it can be insulting to women. The original 'joke' in this thread is a good example of that.

Quite frankly, I find the idea that men will not joke about things that they know are insulting to women only if women are present even more disturbing. I personally do not mind if my male friends make sexual jokes around me, as long as those jokes are not degrading to women.

[Ramien]

Quite frankly, I find the idea that men will not joke about things that they know are insulting to women only if women are present even more disturbing. I personally do not mind if my male friends make sexual jokes around me, as long as those jokes are not degrading to women.

I don't blame you there - my wife is the same way. I was just trying to come up with a situation appropriate example of when a joke would work in one audience yet still be offensive to others outside that audience. I chose that example because it is very common, sadly.

[AgentofHellfire]

I got the reference. Doesn't change the fact that a) Laurin has shown no sign of flying and b) the OP went beyond quoting Haley to throw in additional gender-based, slut-shaming insults. Seriously, am I the only person who thinks "Is she a skank or a MILF?" belongs on some frat-boy Maxim forums, not here?

I see a lot of dudes telling me I overreacted. I don't see a lot of women contributing to this thread.

Okay, ser:

Using the tramp/MILF term in this context isn't really defining a character by sexuality. It's using a preexisting meme in the storyline to create a joke by making a slight twist on it.

...and that meme, I might add, is based off of a genre convention that used to exist of the female lead and the female sub-villain fighting each other. Or that's what I got from it.

It does not indicate that anyone making the joke actually thinks of her as a MILF, nor would it cause readers to do so. It's just a cigar.

How on earth do you think that claiming her favor would be sex says anything at all about Tarquin? It's putting thoughts in Laurin's head regarding how she views the world, and says a lot more about how Laurin is viewed than it ever could about Tarquin.

...though I will agree that the people putting this idea forward were probably *****. That in no way makes the joke definitively dickish, though.

[AKA_Bait]

Using the tramp/MILF term in this context isn't really defining a character by sexuality. It's using a preexisting meme in the storyline to create a joke by making a slight twist on it.

When has the comic used the term MILF? I have some trouble seeing that term being used in a non-sexual context, given the meaning of the acronym. Tramp, at least, has some non-sexual, non-gendered definitions (e.g., Lady and the Tramp).

I know I said I wouldn't be back but I just couldn't help myself.

[Porthos]

When has the comic used the term MILF?

Check the title for Comic #494.

[AKA_Bait]

Check the title for Comic #494.

You got me there. However, there are sexual references/jokes going on in that strip (and the next one).

Also, one example is hardly a meme.

[Dragonus45]

Quite frankly, I find the idea that men will not joke about things that they know are insulting to women only if women are present even more disturbing. I personally do not mind if my male friends make sexual jokes around me, as long as those jokes are not degrading to women.

Speaking from a male point of view, its less not telling the jokes because its insulting and more not telling the joke because a man telling a joke that risks crossing a woman's individual line, which can vary a lot just like anyone else. But for a man the social punishment for that can be very severe so we tend to ere on the side of caution.

[faden]

I just had to laugh at the update, Laurin got that slight bit of sexualization that you were fighting over, albeit as a teenage crush.