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Thread: The Gamer

  1. - Top - End - #331
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    Default Re: The Gamer

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Can I just go on record saying how bad the idea of relying on a "tank" is? Real world enemies don't have aggro systems, and all it takes is one attack getting through ever to kill him. Presumably he won't re-spawn like a game character if he actually dies. It's fine if he uses it in conjunction with other defensive abilities, but relying on it soley is an incredibly bad idea.
    Real world enemies also can't do much to you if somebody with extreme strength like Sun-Il is a foot away from breaking your neck.

    The whole idea of having a tank like Sun-Il is that he can block attacks intended for you and force enemies to deal with him first. He does this to monsters with aggro. He does it to humans by being dangerous enough to force them to deal with him, and hardy enough to actually weather the assault.
    Last edited by Olinser; 2014-05-24 at 10:03 PM.

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  2. - Top - End - #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olinser View Post
    Real world enemies also can't do much to you if somebody with extreme strength like Sun-Il is a foot away from breaking your neck.

    The whole idea of having a tank like Sun-Il is that he can block attacks intended for you and force enemies to deal with him first. He does this to monsters with aggro. He does it to humans by being dangerous enough to force them to deal with him, and hardy enough to actually weather the assault.
    Yeah, but "real world" enemies in this manga aren't exactly real world enemies as we know them. There are people who can move faster than they eye can track...people who can teleport...people who can destroy the entire area with you inside, etc. I'm just saying that being a glass cannon is a very bad idea in any type of situation outside of video games where you can respawn if you die.

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    Default Re: The Gamer

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Can I just go on record saying how bad the idea of relying on a "tank" is? Real world enemies don't have aggro systems, and all it takes is one attack getting through ever to kill him. Presumably he won't re-spawn like a game character if he actually dies. It's fine if he uses it in conjunction with other defensive abilities, but relying on it soley is an incredibly bad idea.
    Well, he has been talking at great length about the many defensive capabilities he wants to develop...

    Also, I rather imagine Noum isn't meant to be a tank in the sense of holding aggro, but in the sense of intercepting aggro. A dynamic shield, if you will.

  4. - Top - End - #334
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    That's true. He just never actually focuses on any of them long enough to actually make them useful. He's got the worst case of ADHD ever when it comes to training his abilities.

    Not that I blame him. I'd probably be the same way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    That's true. He just never actually focuses on any of them long enough to actually make them useful. He's got the worst case of ADHD ever when it comes to training his abilities.
    The reason that Jee Han is actually a terrible optimizer is because his Gamer skill is missing the most important ability - being able to make a new character whenever you want. He has to toss everything he might ever want to try out into a single build.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
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    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  6. - Top - End - #336
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    Default Re: The Gamer

    Also, since he's a gamer, there's no reason not to assume that the things he summoned won't also be game-y and will therefore get game-like powers; one common ability for tank-classes in games (especially tank summons) is a way to force enemies to attack them.

    So, say, someone who tries using a flash-step or teleportation technique to reach him might find themselves pulled in by Noum's abilities and ending up adjacent to her instead; someone who tries to fire an arrow at him might find it arcing in midair to hit his tank, etc. Gravitational Pull or something like that.

    On the other hand...
    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    The reason that Jee Han is actually a terrible optimizer is because his Gamer skill is missing the most important ability - being able to make a new character whenever you want. He has to toss everything he might ever want to try out into a single build.
    Well, sort of. The only irreversible choices he seems to have to make are where to allocate his stat points and which incompatible skills to learn. We've only seen one incompatible set of skills for him so far -- the Ki Flow / martial arts school choice -- and in that case it was obvious common sense to learn the style of his closest allies, since he can easily get skill books and training from them cheaply or for free.

    Otherwise, though, he seems to be able to learn and train as many skills as he wants, and he at least seems to believe he can learn every elemental affinity eventually (based on what he learned from absorbing the summoning book, so it's probably true.)

    Intelligence seems to have been a logical choice for him to focus on, too, for several reasons -- partially because it seems the MA school of his closest allies (and therefore the people he can get free skill books from) are heavily Intelligence-focused, with high Int requirements and powerful buffs that key off of it; and partially because spellcasting probably has more skill books out there than abilities bound to other stats.
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2014-05-25 at 04:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    Otherwise, though, he seems to be able to learn and train as many skills as he wants, and he at least seems to believe he can learn every elemental affinity eventually (based on what he learned from absorbing the summoning book, so it's probably true.)
    He can learn as many skills as he wants, but he can't train them all at once because the threats he faces are not going to hang around and wait for him to grind everything he wants to grind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Default Re: The Gamer

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    Also, since he's a gamer, there's no reason not to assume that the things he summoned won't also be game-y and will therefore get game-like powers; one common ability for tank-classes in games (especially tank summons) is a way to force enemies to attack them.

    So, say, someone who tries using a flash-step or teleportation technique to reach him might find themselves pulled in by Noum's abilities and ending up adjacent to her instead; someone who tries to fire an arrow at him might find it arcing in midair to hit his tank, etc. Gravitational Pull or something like that.

    On the other hand...
    Well, sort of. The only irreversible choices he seems to have to make are where to allocate his stat points and which incompatible skills to learn. We've only seen one incompatible set of skills for him so far -- the Ki Flow / martial arts school choice -- and in that case it was obvious common sense to learn the style of his closest allies, since he can easily get skill books and training from them cheaply or for free.

    Otherwise, though, he seems to be able to learn and train as many skills as he wants, and he at least seems to believe he can learn every elemental affinity eventually (based on what he learned from absorbing the summoning book, so it's probably true.)

    Intelligence seems to have been a logical choice for him to focus on, too, for several reasons -- partially because it seems the MA school of his closest allies (and therefore the people he can get free skill books from) are heavily Intelligence-focused, with high Int requirements and powerful buffs that key off of it; and partially because spellcasting probably has more skill books out there than abilities bound to other stats.
    Not to mention that things like Strength and Stamina should be much easier to train and get permanent bonuses to than things like Intelligence.

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  9. - Top - End - #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olinser View Post
    Not to mention that things like Strength and Stamina should be much easier to train and get permanent bonuses to than things like Intelligence.
    I don't know if that's true. Remember he got a message about increasing his intelligence after a very short period of time spent studying, and we know of at least one person in his school with an INT of 60+ who presumably achieved it through study.

  10. - Top - End - #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I don't know if that's true. Remember he got a message about increasing his intelligence after a very short period of time spent studying, and we know of at least one person in his school with an INT of 60+ who presumably achieved it through study.
    Not to mention that he gets points to put into stats whenever he levels. Those can be distributed with equal ease to each stat.
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    We've only seen him get a permanent bonus from his actions once so far, so it's possible that it is very hard, rare, or unlikely. It probably isn't reliable enough to let him significantly change his stat focus unless he attains immortality and lives thousands of years.

    I don't think the classmate with high int necessarily proves anything, since I doubt other people have to play by Gamer rules except when directly interacting with his powers -- his Observe skill just translated "she is naturally really really smart and / or has studied really really hard" into game-language, which doesn't necessarily have any implications for how hard or easy it is to raise stats using the Gamer ability itself. We've seen other people with extremely unusual stat distributions before, too, like the Black Summoner's daughter and her outrageously high mental stats vs. ridiculously low physical stats when compared to her level.

    (I mean, her condition justifies the low physical stats, but her high Intelligence ones seem to mostly just be his Observe's way of saying "she is really really really clever and wise, be careful about her mind" rather than saying "she has grinded these in some game-ish fashion.")

  12. - Top - End - #342
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    He states outright that his friend's stats are higher than they should be for his level due to the amount of work he's put into it. So we know it's possible for other people and not necessarily uncommon. It's probably some combination of natural ability and hard work.

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    New chapter.

    I nearly died laughing.

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    LEGENDARY class item - Ogre's Tigerskin Panties. Seriously, greatest thing EVER.

    Sun-Il says he's defeated one of the bosses (I assume with some help). Confirmed that unless Jee-Han is present, nothing drops.

    Other than that, nothing much happening, when he's actually in a party with Jee-Han since he's closer to his level, Sun-Il can see some of the Gamer interface now.

    However, the Boss has shown up, so we should see a good fight for the next chapter or two. Perhaps actually see some of Noum's special abilities?
    Last edited by Olinser; 2014-05-29 at 11:08 AM.

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    Ah, the indignities we suffer for stat bonuses. He's a true gamer
    Lolth is so scary that even in TO, "having to be touched by Lolth" is recognized as a serious drawback for Lolth-touched.
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    So the underwear of invincibility were totally powerful, but they were like, tiger-striped.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
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    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  16. - Top - End - #346
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    Who cares? You can just wear clothes over them.

    Just don't wear them if you're expecting any "special encounters".
    Last edited by Anteros; 2014-05-30 at 12:02 AM.

  17. - Top - End - #347
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    A manga with a somewhat similar theme was uploaded to Batoto recently: Re:Monster, about a hero who gets reincarnated as a goblin. He can learn RPG-style abilities by eating other creatures. There's also something of a focus on him organizing goblins and advancing their culture, I think, although it's hard to tell so far.

    The Gamer meets Goblins meets Maoyuu Maou Yuusha?
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2014-06-01 at 11:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    A manga with a somewhat similar theme was uploaded to Batoto recently: Re:Monster, about a hero who gets reincarnated as a goblin. He can learn RPG-style abilities by eating other creatures. There's also something of a focus on him organizing goblins and advancing their culture, I think, although it's hard to tell so far.

    The Gamer meets Goblins meets Maoyuu Maou Yuusha?
    That's a pretty cool comic, thanks for linking it. I wonder why that one goblin is smaller and has hair?
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    That's a pretty cool comic, thanks for linking it. I wonder why that one goblin is smaller and has hair?
    The smaller one with hair (gobbi-chan), is a female, from the way she dresses, looks, and how she is referred to. Other females show up in chapter 3.

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    New raws out.

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    Battle chapter. After some dancing around they kill the Ogre boss. He drops a club, a hat, some money, and another pair of leopard panties :P

    ALL HAIL THE GREAT RAK!!

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    Translation's out.

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    I put on my panties and ogre hat.

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    Default Re: The Gamer

    weird that he didn't try out the club before he gave it away
    My Class is Artificer ... "I see the secret patterns of magic, and through the items I carry, I can use that magic to protect you, heal you... or make you explode."

  23. - Top - End - #353
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    He probably doesn't have the strength or skill to use it, even if he wanted to keep it. Plus, it's never good to get too greedy with the loot. Gotta keep your meat shields happy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venom3053000 View Post
    weird that he didn't try out the club before he gave it away
    Why would he? He's an Int caster build - he doesn't need a melee weapon.

    Meanwhile the Hat of Locker Room Spying is calling his name.
    Last edited by Olinser; 2014-06-07 at 11:02 AM.

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  25. - Top - End - #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olinser View Post
    Why would he? He's an Int caster build - he doesn't need a melee weapon.

    Meanwhile the Hat of Locker Room Spying is calling his name.
    I have to wonder if that would count as abusing your powers and get you murdered by the world. I think if I were him I would have really asked for more clarification on that part.
    Last edited by Anteros; 2014-06-07 at 11:04 PM.

  26. - Top - End - #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I have to wonder if that would count as abusing your powers and get you murdered by the world. I think if I were him I would have really asked for more clarification on that part.
    As I understand it, this is a world where people are bought and sold as slaves. Peeping Toms don't rank high on the moral abuse of abyssal powers, so I doubt it would qualify even if I thought the sort of abuse they were talking about had a moral dimension, which I don't.

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    It might turn out that the hat's description isn't fluff and it has a nasty side effect in that particular situation, because why not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
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    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  28. - Top - End - #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    It might turn out that the hat's description isn't fluff and it has a nasty side effect in that particular situation, because why not.
    Particular situation? When is he ever going to find anyone showering inside of an Illusion Barrier?

    Using it outside of an IB would probably invoke Gaia's wrath and all that...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inuzuka View Post
    Particular situation? When is he ever going to find anyone showering inside of an Illusion Barrier?

    Using it outside of an IB would probably invoke Gaia's wrath and all that...
    I agree with Math_Mage on this - using magic to look at boobies doesn't really qualify as something in which Gaia needs to intervene.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  30. - Top - End - #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    I agree with Math_Mage on this - using magic to look at boobies doesn't really qualify as something in which Gaia needs to intervene.
    Probably, but are you willing to risk it just to look at boobies?

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