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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default The same thing we do every night!

    Basically, what are some builds, character concepts, role play ideas etc that you find works well for a campaign based on trying to conquer, manipulate and/or control and rule the world at some point.

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    Red Fel's Avatar

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    Default Re: The same thing we do every night!

    Oh, mummy, is it Christmas already?

    The great archetype of the genre would probably be a LE Telepath/Thrallherd. LE is the alignment most naturally inclined to seek total domination of everything, Telepath/Thrallherd the most straightforward way of amassing hordes of simpleminded followers and bending the minds of even the most willful enemies.

    I could go into detail, but I'll be honest - that sounds terribly boring. Blah blah blah, break their spirits, own their bodies, blah blah, the minds of the world's leaders bend to my will, blah blah, all nations under my banner, dull. One good Will save ruins everybody's fun.

    No, I like the simple methods. The simple methods are the best. Let me give you an example - a Warblade. Strength, Intelligence, and unexpectedly, Charisma. Warblade 20. Keep it simple. Let's keep Lawful Evil, you'll see why.

    Why Charisma, I would hear you ask if you weren't on the other side of the internets. I will tell you. Have you ever read the fluff about Warblades in ToB? Go read it. I'll wait.

    Welcome back. As you read, Warblades crave glory and recognition. They do flashy sword-stuff because they want people to see them doing flashy sword-stuff. They want to be loved. Charisma means that you not only get to be an awesome swordsman, but that people will adore you for it.

    Our Warblade, however, doesn't want love. He wants mindless worship. So step one, start a war.

    It's not hard. Start by going into the woods near Home Village, throwing some rocks and ticking off the otherwise peaceful (if savage) orc neighbors. Lead a team of militia to repel the sudden and unexpected aggression of those green-skinned savages. Make sure that only a few of the militiamen survive. That way, they can tell everyone how brutal the battle was, and how epic you performed.

    You're now the hero of Home Village. Help build up the village by laying claim to everything that belonged to the orcs. After all, they don't need it anymore. Home Village will prosper, with you at its helm. But you can't stay in Home Village all your life. Nothing ever happens there, apart from that one battle with the orcs.

    So they all have to die.

    Spread rumors about fantastic wealth being discovered in the orc village. Bandits will flock from all over the countryside to pillage Home. You'll kill most of them, of course, but the toll will be high - many villagers will be killed in the attacks. Hopefully almost all of them. With a heavy heart, you will volunteer to seek out the aid of the King in dealing with the bandit menace.

    Now, if you've done your work right, you've made sure to leave survivors. Survivors among the orcs, the bandits, whomever. They have vendettas. They have rage. They have friends. They will come for you. Be in the capital when it happens.

    Your deeds will likely have traveled to the capital by now. (After all, if you're around Level 5, you're already well above average.) The King will grant you audience, and you'll humbly plea on behalf of Home. Maybe he'll offer aid, maybe he won't. The important thing is not what happens in the meeting, but what happens after.

    Be sure the attack happens someplace with bystanders. The marketplace, the tavern, maybe even the royal courtyard if you ticked off the right people. Make it a spectacular battle. Win, of course. The King will be both impressed with your prowess and infuriated that such an attack would dare occur in his capital. He'll practically demand you avenge this wrong. Naturally, his will is your command.

    The rest is fairly straightforward stuff. Continue to impress the King with your exploits. Get promoted to General. Take the hand of the Princess. Have her killed and an enemy nation framed for it. Go to war to avenge her death. Become the sole heir. Have the King die, slowly, of a seemingly natural illness. Rise to power. Cover everything under heaven with the sword.

    The people will love you. Or fear you. Or both. Enjoy your new planet.
    My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.

    Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.

    My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: The same thing we do every night!

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Oh, mummy, is it Christmas already?

    The great archetype of the genre would probably be a LE Telepath/Thrallherd. LE is the alignment most naturally inclined to seek total domination of everything, Telepath/Thrallherd the most straightforward way of amassing hordes of simpleminded followers and bending the minds of even the most willful enemies.

    I could go into detail, but I'll be honest - that sounds terribly boring. Blah blah blah, break their spirits, own their bodies, blah blah, the minds of the world's leaders bend to my will, blah blah, all nations under my banner, dull. One good Will save ruins everybody's fun.

    No, I like the simple methods. The simple methods are the best. Let me give you an example - a Warblade. Strength, Intelligence, and unexpectedly, Charisma. Warblade 20. Keep it simple. Let's keep Lawful Evil, you'll see why.

    Why Charisma, I would hear you ask if you weren't on the other side of the internets. I will tell you. Have you ever read the fluff about Warblades in ToB? Go read it. I'll wait.

    Welcome back. As you read, Warblades crave glory and recognition. They do flashy sword-stuff because they want people to see them doing flashy sword-stuff. They want to be loved. Charisma means that you not only get to be an awesome swordsman, but that people will adore you for it.

    Our Warblade, however, doesn't want love. He wants mindless worship. So step one, start a war.

    It's not hard. Start by going into the woods near Home Village, throwing some rocks and ticking off the otherwise peaceful (if savage) orc neighbors. Lead a team of militia to repel the sudden and unexpected aggression of those green-skinned savages. Make sure that only a few of the militiamen survive. That way, they can tell everyone how brutal the battle was, and how epic you performed.

    You're now the hero of Home Village. Help build up the village by laying claim to everything that belonged to the orcs. After all, they don't need it anymore. Home Village will prosper, with you at its helm. But you can't stay in Home Village all your life. Nothing ever happens there, apart from that one battle with the orcs.

    So they all have to die.

    Spread rumors about fantastic wealth being discovered in the orc village. Bandits will flock from all over the countryside to pillage Home. You'll kill most of them, of course, but the toll will be high - many villagers will be killed in the attacks. Hopefully almost all of them. With a heavy heart, you will volunteer to seek out the aid of the King in dealing with the bandit menace.

    Now, if you've done your work right, you've made sure to leave survivors. Survivors among the orcs, the bandits, whomever. They have vendettas. They have rage. They have friends. They will come for you. Be in the capital when it happens.

    Your deeds will likely have traveled to the capital by now. (After all, if you're around Level 5, you're already well above average.) The King will grant you audience, and you'll humbly plea on behalf of Home. Maybe he'll offer aid, maybe he won't. The important thing is not what happens in the meeting, but what happens after.

    Be sure the attack happens someplace with bystanders. The marketplace, the tavern, maybe even the royal courtyard if you ticked off the right people. Make it a spectacular battle. Win, of course. The King will be both impressed with your prowess and infuriated that such an attack would dare occur in his capital. He'll practically demand you avenge this wrong. Naturally, his will is your command.

    The rest is fairly straightforward stuff. Continue to impress the King with your exploits. Get promoted to General. Take the hand of the Princess. Have her killed and an enemy nation framed for it. Go to war to avenge her death. Become the sole heir. Have the King die, slowly, of a seemingly natural illness. Rise to power. Cover everything under heaven with the sword.

    The people will love you. Or fear you. Or both. Enjoy your new planet.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9NIZOvfKpc

    That's just amazing...

    As far as attributes though wouldn't wisdom also make sense? Intelligence shows the knowledge on certain fields, but wisdom covers the ability to implement all this stuff you suggest in such a clever way.

    How campaigns work though I doubt though I can follow such a guide so closely, but from what I gather the main idea is whatever you do make yourself look great for it. And cause most others to die so it looks amazing that you survived. But have some survivour's in order to both spread the tale and to keep attacking you later. Plus set up situations to frame another person or bend the motivations and actions of someone to cause benefit to you?

    Is that the basic idea or am I missing something?

    Also, what would you suggest if people start to get suspicious? Such as "He seems to be awfully lucky a lot... I wonder if there's more than what he's letting on".

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    Default Re: The same thing we do every night!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwazi Magnum View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9NIZOvfKpc

    That's just amazing...

    As far as attributes though wouldn't wisdom also make sense? Intelligence shows the knowledge on certain fields, but wisdom covers the ability to implement all this stuff you suggest in such a clever way.

    How campaigns work though I doubt though I can follow such a guide so closely, but from what I gather the main idea is whatever you do make yourself look great for it. And cause most others to die so it looks amazing that you survived. But have some survivour's in order to both spread the tale and to keep attacking you later. Plus set up situations to frame another person or bend the motivations and actions of someone to cause benefit to you?

    Is that the basic idea or am I missing something?

    Also, what would you suggest if people start to get suspicious? Such as "He seems to be awfully lucky a lot... I wonder if there's more than what he's letting on".
    Wisdom has its uses, but speaking from an optimization standpoint, you don't want to spread your abilities too thin. For a Warblade, these stats are sufficient, if not ideal. Str gets you offensive power. Int gets you your class abilities and justifies your cunning brain. And Cha makes the little sheep adore you.

    And yes, you have the idea right. Leave survivors who will hate you but spread your legacy. Get the right people to hate you so that you have an excuse to go to war - but always retaliatory, never proactively. Further, by leaving survivors on your side as well as the enemy side, there are people who will spread the legend of your greatness. And because you are never the sole survivor from your side, people can't claim you did anything tricky - after all, there are witnesses.

    The trick to alleviating suspicion is simply to be beyond reproach. Have so many people proclaiming your excellence that dissenting voices are drowned out in the din.

    With regard to everything else, it's staging. Showmanship. A truly great villain doesn't wait for the optimal situation to present itself - he arranges it in advance. He invents his own luck. He practices the Xanatos Gambit religiously - basically, he arranges every scenario so that the only outcomes are either "I win" or "My enemies lose." It's a sublime art, and one every compelling would-be dictator should master.

    Now, playing this character in a campaign is tricky, because either your allies are Good - in which case they would probably try to stop you at some point - or they're Evil - in which case they'd probably try to supplant or undermine you. My advice would be to pass notes and have regular meetings with the DM. Don't let the party know what you're doing, IC or OOC. The party should only be aware of the stuff of which the general public is aware. You want your party to be sharing in your glory, so that they have a motivation to promote it. If they get a piece of the action, they want that action to continue. If their ally (you) gets attacked, they should want revenge. And if you rise to power, they should expect to rise alongside you (although, naturally, never as high as you). Get them onboard with your plans, just don't let them realize what those plans are.
    My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.

    Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.

    My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: The same thing we do every night!

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Wisdom has its uses, but speaking from an optimization standpoint, you don't want to spread your abilities too thin. For a Warblade, these stats are sufficient, if not ideal. Str gets you offensive power. Int gets you your class abilities and justifies your cunning brain. And Cha makes the little sheep adore you.

    And yes, you have the idea right. Leave survivors who will hate you but spread your legacy. Get the right people to hate you so that you have an excuse to go to war - but always retaliatory, never proactively. Further, by leaving survivors on your side as well as the enemy side, there are people who will spread the legend of your greatness. And because you are never the sole survivor from your side, people can't claim you did anything tricky - after all, there are witnesses.

    The trick to alleviating suspicion is simply to be beyond reproach. Have so many people proclaiming your excellence that dissenting voices are drowned out in the din.

    With regard to everything else, it's staging. Showmanship. A truly great villain doesn't wait for the optimal situation to present itself - he arranges it in advance. He invents his own luck. He practices the Xanatos Gambit religiously - basically, he arranges every scenario so that the only outcomes are either "I win" or "My enemies lose." It's a sublime art, and one every compelling would-be dictator should master.

    Now, playing this character in a campaign is tricky, because either your allies are Good - in which case they would probably try to stop you at some point - or they're Evil - in which case they'd probably try to supplant or undermine you. My advice would be to pass notes and have regular meetings with the DM. Don't let the party know what you're doing, IC or OOC. The party should only be aware of the stuff of which the general public is aware. You want your party to be sharing in your glory, so that they have a motivation to promote it. If they get a piece of the action, they want that action to continue. If their ally (you) gets attacked, they should want revenge. And if you rise to power, they should expect to rise alongside you (although, naturally, never as high as you). Get them onboard with your plans, just don't let them realize what those plans are.
    In the case that I'm asking about, the other players also want world domination.

    But at the moment I think they're aiming at it through more of a economic or world invasion sort of route.
    If I had a good plan to give them though they'd probably be on board with it.

    But the basic idea is then leave witnesses and always set up your own luck?
    Is there a sort of mindset or approach I should be coming into the campaign and encounters with?
    That makes it easier for me to look at any situation and twist it to my advantage?

    As for character building, isn't Con also important? For the sake of surviving long enough to be King/Queen?

  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Default Re: The same thing we do every night!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwazi Magnum View Post
    In the case that I'm asking about, the other players also want world domination.

    But at the moment I think they're aiming at it through more of a economic or world invasion sort of route.
    If I had a good plan to give them though they'd probably be on board with it.

    But the basic idea is then leave witnesses and always set up your own luck?
    Is there a sort of mindset or approach I should be coming into the campaign and encounters with?
    That makes it easier for me to look at any situation and twist it to my advantage?

    As for character building, isn't Con also important? For the sake of surviving long enough to be King/Queen?
    Yes. The basic idea is:

    1. Leave witnesses. Friendly ones to spread the word of how awesome you are. Unfriendly ones to seek revenge and start new wars for you to win, which basically takes us back to "leave witnesses" all over again.

    2. Win wars. Keep fighting, keep bringing more gory (wealth, land, power) to your kingdom. As long as the gold flows in, the people will adore you. Never fight aggressively, of course - always fight in response to some action by another, be it an attack, an insult (which you ensured the rival diplomat would utter), etc.

    3. Create your own luck. As Xanatos once said, "I fear nothing, for nothing is beyond my ability to change." Be that guy. Design every scenario so that the only outcomes are ones where you win, or your enemies lose. Even if they thwart you, doing so should promote your endgame.

    With regard to stats, Con serves primarily two functions - Fort saves and HP. Fort saves only matter if you don't have something better. HP only matters if you're getting hit or taking damage. This, in addition to the fluff, is why I chose Warblade. You can substitute a Concentration check for any save with Diamond Mind. You can shrug off negative effects with Iron Heart Surge. You can take a feat and grab some Devoted Spirit maneuvers for easy spot-healing. Staying alive is not hard for a capable Warblade. The thing to remember is that staying alive, despite what the Beegees said, is not enough - you have to win.
    My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.

    Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.

    My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ElfMonkGuy

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    Default Re: The same thing we do every night!

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    [COLOR="Purple"]*Awesome stuff*
    That was the most perfect thing I have ever read. That is how you play LE
    Poems!
    Awesome people saying awesome things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carecalmo View Post
    Then again, you could be volunteering for !!SCIENCE!!, in which case... I shall take notes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    Alternatively I may consider going into politics after getting bored of hunting aliens in the jungle.
    ( Please pardon any garbled posts. I prefer face to face communication then text, and I also don't read whole threads, so I may just put in my 2cp.)

  8. - Top - End - #8
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    Default Re: The same thing we do every night!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja_Grand View Post
    That was the most perfect thing I have ever read. That is how you play LE
    Thank you. When I rise to power, your name will be on the Protected Scrolls, and the harms you suffer shall be limited in nature.

    In all seriousness, though, there are many ways to play the world conquest game. The trick to making it fun is three-fold.

    1: Be creative. Sure, you could play the screaming rabid baddie as he stampedes his way across the continent, but wouldn't it be more fun to charm people into giving you control? Or to take over by framing the leaders? Or by plunging an entire region into a desolate demiplane where only by following you can the people hope to survive? Not every victory is earned through military conquest, and not every leader is adored. Think outside the DVD box.

    2: Go whole hog. Don't just tap dance around your ambitions. Relish them. Are you playing a warlord? Be berserk, shed blood and bathe in it. Are you playing the crafty royal vizier? Live it up. Dress in fancy clothes, bathe in the finest oils, order servants to be executed for kicks. Are you playing the immortal sorcerer who wants absolute power? Be detached, be cold, spend hours pouring over books, idly wave your hands and annihilate those stupid enough to disturb your reading time. Don't just have an alignment; have a calling.

    3: Remember the Rule of Cool. A great villain - a truly great villain - is awesome. And occasionally, that means being willing to break character for the purpose of something truly epic. (Although, if you planned ahead, this wouldn't be breaking character at all.) When the chance to do something amazing should arise, seize it. Maleficent turned into a dragon. The Anti-Spirals hurled galaxies. Sephiroth became a physical god. Be epic, and don't be afraid to go out with a Big Bang.
    My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.

    Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.

    My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: The same thing we do every night!

    Remember the "Try to take over the world" thing isn't strictly Lawful Evil domain. Any Lawful Alignment is good at it, as is any Evil alignment.

    In particular I prefer the way one of my characters went around World Domination. Because it was something that no one really saw coming until I had sprung the trap. Going at it from a direction that they completely hadn't seen, and honestly thought I was Lawful Good instead of Lawful Evil.

    Basically? I set myself up as the "hero". He was a peacemaker, setting up alliances between factions, eliminating people who wouldn't join the new order, or just circumventing them somehow and applying pressure to make them see the right of his way. He never set himself up as the hero, but passed on the legends as if his companions were actually the ones who did everything that he accomplished. Married into a royal bloodline to become a legitimate heir of one of the most powerful of the factions he allied, the central government who first started setting up the alliance. With him basically having a ruling interest in about 80% of the civilized world, he installed various pawns he had forged close bonds with at the heads of other "allied" nations, until eventually he could pass through laws uniting them as a formal empire... laws that people were celebrating in the streets over. He took over the world to the cheering fanfare of the public, instead of cries of oppression.

    Build wise? Bard, all the way. Minor magic he used cleverly, rather than brute force. Decent with a weapon (He used a quarter staff actually), charismatic man, storyteller, diplomat.

    But the build is all about the methodology. And the methodology depends on how you are a villain. The above one was a "Man Behind the Curtain". He was all about acting through cat's paws and being out of the spotlight as much as possible. Only his closest confidants knows that he's the one really pulling the strings, to all outsiders he was just "A strange foreigner that the princess has a fancy for". The Manipulator is the same thing, often with divination magic and similar non-combat powers. The difference being that they're more overt, will let people know that they're a glorious bastard and people should get on their knees for him, because he has them dead to rights before they even think about acting against him, etc.

    Other types that play well for world domination? Typical megalomaniac type. The Thrallherd comes into play naturally there, someone who wants power, wants to lord over things. Doesn't really connect to, or care about other people other than how they serve as an extension of his ego. Thus doesn't think twice about sacrificing waves of minions, going genocidal, etc. Might actually care about things that remind him of his lack of power, like having to cut treaties or placate powers. Thus not likely to have 'subtle' influences to the Thrallherd sort of thing, but more brute force. Not someone that would use Charm powers (As he still has to ask friendly targets, sweet talk them, beg, etc) compared to Dominate (Getting complete authority).

    I like The Professional for world domination villains as well. The Profession goes out and does things himself. He has very high standards. He is usually a leader of men. But unlike megalomaniacs, manipulators, the man behind the curtain, etc, etc, etc, they roll up their sleeves and do the world themselves. A necromancer usually fits this standard, as yes they will have a well trained, massive horde of minions (Or at least try to), but they also roll up their sleeves, fight alongside their horde, and drop the hammer when they need to. It also works well for Fighters, Paladins, and other frontliners who might take leadership as a military leader type.

    Zealots are one that is kinda... eh... I don't like them as villains for world domination. Because Zealots are true believers, and that just doesn't smack true of life in general and human nature. The "True Believers" usually aren't the leaders of men and organizations. It usually requires being wise, worldly, with political savvy and generally tempering faith to really move up to being in a position of world domination, rather than blind faith. Good for mooks, minions, and middle management though. Zealots who do step up to world domination are kinda scary because it's impossible to reason with them... but it's possible to cut a deal with them. More likely to accept surrenders and conversions than megalomaniacs for example. Cleric would be the obvious choice for this, maybe Druid if you wanted something like Raz Al'Ghul (Destroy the world, set it to a natural state where beasts rule the world and you're the only man to claim dominion with your wise guidance)... but it's hard and comes cartoony silly often.
    Currently sick as a dog and unable to focus properly. Will heal soon.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: The same thing we do every night!

    I'll go into the Thrallherd idea. Doesn't matter what the entry point in is; could be Psion 5, could be Psywar 5, could be Ardent 5, could be Erudite 5, given that the entry requirements are Diplo 4, Knowledge (Psionics) 8, Inquisitor, ML 5, and Mindlink. Doesn't even have to be lawful, just evil.

    The whole "break their spirit" thing is nice and all, but the reality is, it generally takes too long and too much effort to do it, because most of the mind-affecting powers only work on one target at a time.

    The real use of a Thrallherd, in terms of world domination, is the use of the believers. A level 20 character with a Charisma of 10 and 10 levels of Thrallherd will have a Leadership score of 30, given them a total of 163 believers (135 1st level, 13 2nd level, 7 3rd level, 4 4th level, 2 5th level and 2 6th level), who, when they die, are automatically replaced in 24 hours.

    However, if a thrallherd wants to conquer the world, their goal isn't necessarily to sacrifice their believers, even though that is sometimes necessary. Sure, there are the sacrifice shenanigans that can make a Thrallherd really powerful with their limitless supplies of bodies they can toss into the pit, but the reality is, intelligence wins wars, and that's where the Thrallherd has a huge advantage.

    There is nothing in the text that says a Thrallherd's believers have to follow the Thrallherd around. Instead, a Thrallherd bent on conquering the world would send away their believers, not because they didn't want them, but precisely because the Thrallherd needs them to be useful and far away, to be the Thrallherd's eyes and ears in every corner of the world. A believer or two in every city and small town of significance will provide a Thrallherd with what is essentially an intelligence network, particularly because, statistically, some of those believers will end up in places where they can overhear important information on the basis of it being what the Thrallherd sent them off to do.

    With this network of intelligence, it is fairly simple for the Thrallherd to have the information needed to manipulate events in their favor. Disagreeable individuals can be made to disappear, or even better, made to agree; there is no need to break the minds of everybody, when you only need to change the minds of those who disagree and are in a place of power. A dead person is an asset that the Thrallherd can no longer exploit, and an person who was persuaded to agree is far more useful than one dominated into it.

    A Thrallherd following this path to conquering the world will never rule the world visibly; why put oneself into harm's way, as one of the world's ruler's, when it's quite simply possible to rule from the shadows and use the visible rulers as a buffer between danger and oneself? Instead, a Thrallherd bent on ruling the world does it Inception style, by suggesting to those in power a course to take, then making sure that course is taken by hook or by crook, but always from behind the scenes, and aways with minimal visibility of themselves manipulating the world.

  11. - Top - End - #11
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: The same thing we do every night!

    Well, aristocrats are capable of ruling the world with nothing more than synergistic social skills and a pile of gold.

    Another question is how complete do you want your dominance to be? Do you want the Underdark, the Ethereal/Plane of Shadow, the oceans (if any), and the moon(s)?

    Navigating the world will require magic. Is the magic built into the character, or do they just control it via some means? For built in mundane ruling, a Changeling Rogue spymaster who makes one of their alternate covers "ruler of all" or something. Under RAW D&D, diplomacy works on kings and commoners alike. Charlatans can diplomacy entire cities.

    For fun with magic, bard and beguiler.

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    Kobold

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    Default Re: The same thing we do every night!

    I always liked Truenamers for taking over the world with. They just make such great villains. Why you ask? Their fluff is made for it. You control the universe with your voice. But anyway, being any level Truenamer could work I suppose, but my favorite way is to simply do it from 20, the same level where you get Conjunctive Gate and Say My Name And I Am There. Set your True-nickname to something easy, like your own name, or a calling card that you leave at every atrocity you commit. Make yourself known. You become aware of every person that ever utters your True-Nickname, and can teleport to them immediately. You become an omniscient and omnipotent force, people have to resort to referring to you as "you know who." You're Voldemort.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deeds View Post
    Caster backstories require a reason as to why they can cast spells. Wizards study hard to learn spells. Sorcerers often learn of their powers and then hone them through traveling. Clerics use piety to find the gift of spells through the gods or their ideals. Druids shun deodorant until a riding dog appears and they learn Entangle.
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    There are certain advantages to a game being as badly written as 3.5.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Red Fel's Avatar

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    Default Re: The same thing we do every night!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombulian View Post
    You become an omniscient and omnipotent force, people have to resort to referring to you as "you know who." You're Voldemort.
    This. This is what I was talking about.

    This isn't just thinking outside of the box. This is thinking, "Box, what box? All I see here are some smoldering pieces of cardboard. Oh, this flamethrower? It's not a flamethrower. It's a piece of harmless gardening equipment."

    Truenamer is a bad class without homebrews. But starting from level 20? Having the full complement of (mostly useless) powers, including Gate and Say My Name? And using it like that? That's literal god-level power.

    No, seriously. Look at the fluff on deities. They become aware when one of their worshipers uses their name, and can sense the area for a period of time thereafter. A Truenamer becomes aware when anyone uses his special name, and can physically manifest at that place instantly.

    And people will know that. And fear it.

    Zom, my imaginary hat is off to you. Horns? What horns? It's just an unusual hairstyle.
    My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.

    Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.

    My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: The same thing we do every night!

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Yes. The basic idea is:

    1. Leave witnesses. Friendly ones to spread the word of how awesome you are. Unfriendly ones to seek revenge and start new wars for you to win, which basically takes us back to "leave witnesses" all over again.

    2. Win wars. Keep fighting, keep bringing more gory (wealth, land, power) to your kingdom. As long as the gold flows in, the people will adore you. Never fight aggressively, of course - always fight in response to some action by another, be it an attack, an insult (which you ensured the rival diplomat would utter), etc.

    3. Create your own luck. As Xanatos once said, "I fear nothing, for nothing is beyond my ability to change." Be that guy. Design every scenario so that the only outcomes are ones where you win, or your enemies lose. Even if they thwart you, doing so should promote your endgame.

    With regard to stats, Con serves primarily two functions - Fort saves and HP. Fort saves only matter if you don't have something better. HP only matters if you're getting hit or taking damage. This, in addition to the fluff, is why I chose Warblade. You can substitute a Concentration check for any save with Diamond Mind. You can shrug off negative effects with Iron Heart Surge. You can take a feat and grab some Devoted Spirit maneuvers for easy spot-healing. Staying alive is not hard for a capable Warblade. The thing to remember is that staying alive, despite what the Beegees said, is not enough - you have to win.
    1. Seems easy enough

    2. Also seems easy, play defensively in a sense.

    3. Easier said than done. How could I possibly for see and plan out situations that well? To the point the DM would have no way of making it go wrong?

    4. Fair enough on the Constitution.

    Quote Originally Posted by HaikenEdge View Post
    I'll go into the Thrallherd idea. Doesn't matter what the entry point in is; could be Psion 5, could be Psywar 5, could be Ardent 5, could be Erudite 5, given that the entry requirements are Diplo 4, Knowledge (Psionics) 8, Inquisitor, ML 5, and Mindlink. Doesn't even have to be lawful, just evil.

    The whole "break their spirit" thing is nice and all, but the reality is, it generally takes too long and too much effort to do it, because most of the mind-affecting powers only work on one target at a time.

    The real use of a Thrallherd, in terms of world domination, is the use of the believers. A level 20 character with a Charisma of 10 and 10 levels of Thrallherd will have a Leadership score of 30, given them a total of 163 believers (135 1st level, 13 2nd level, 7 3rd level, 4 4th level, 2 5th level and 2 6th level), who, when they die, are automatically replaced in 24 hours.

    However, if a thrallherd wants to conquer the world, their goal isn't necessarily to sacrifice their believers, even though that is sometimes necessary. Sure, there are the sacrifice shenanigans that can make a Thrallherd really powerful with their limitless supplies of bodies they can toss into the pit, but the reality is, intelligence wins wars, and that's where the Thrallherd has a huge advantage.

    There is nothing in the text that says a Thrallherd's believers have to follow the Thrallherd around. Instead, a Thrallherd bent on conquering the world would send away their believers, not because they didn't want them, but precisely because the Thrallherd needs them to be useful and far away, to be the Thrallherd's eyes and ears in every corner of the world. A believer or two in every city and small town of significance will provide a Thrallherd with what is essentially an intelligence network, particularly because, statistically, some of those believers will end up in places where they can overhear important information on the basis of it being what the Thrallherd sent them off to do.

    With this network of intelligence, it is fairly simple for the Thrallherd to have the information needed to manipulate events in their favor. Disagreeable individuals can be made to disappear, or even better, made to agree; there is no need to break the minds of everybody, when you only need to change the minds of those who disagree and are in a place of power. A dead person is an asset that the Thrallherd can no longer exploit, and an person who was persuaded to agree is far more useful than one dominated into it.

    A Thrallherd following this path to conquering the world will never rule the world visibly; why put oneself into harm's way, as one of the world's ruler's, when it's quite simply possible to rule from the shadows and use the visible rulers as a buffer between danger and oneself? Instead, a Thrallherd bent on ruling the world does it Inception style, by suggesting to those in power a course to take, then making sure that course is taken by hook or by crook, but always from behind the scenes, and aways with minimal visibility of themselves manipulating the world.
    Basically getting an information network?
    Can't you set that up with normal leadership and a good diplomacy skill?

    Quote Originally Posted by XmonkTad View Post
    Well, aristocrats are capable of ruling the world with nothing more than synergistic social skills and a pile of gold.

    Another question is how complete do you want your dominance to be? Do you want the Underdark, the Ethereal/Plane of Shadow, the oceans (if any), and the moon(s)?

    Navigating the world will require magic. Is the magic built into the character, or do they just control it via some means? For built in mundane ruling, a Changeling Rogue spymaster who makes one of their alternate covers "ruler of all" or something. Under RAW D&D, diplomacy works on kings and commoners alike. Charlatans can diplomacy entire cities.

    For fun with magic, bard and beguiler.
    Mostly the world that most races exist on. But I can see the goals/sights moving even further during the campaign.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombulian View Post
    I always liked Truenamers for taking over the world with. They just make such great villains. Why you ask? Their fluff is made for it. You control the universe with your voice. But anyway, being any level Truenamer could work I suppose, but my favorite way is to simply do it from 20, the same level where you get Conjunctive Gate and Say My Name And I Am There. Set your True-nickname to something easy, like your own name, or a calling card that you leave at every atrocity you commit. Make yourself known. You become aware of every person that ever utters your True-Nickname, and can teleport to them immediately. You become an omniscient and omnipotent force, people have to resort to referring to you as "you know who." You're Voldemort.
    Basically you can summon yourself to where your name is spoken?
    Insane feat tool I admit, but I fail to see how that alone helps with world domination.

    Also, I don't want to have to wait till level 20.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: The same thing we do every night!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwazi Magnum View Post
    Basically getting an information network?
    Can't you set that up with normal leadership and a good diplomacy skill?
    It's significantly easier and lower risk, compared to leadership; with leadership, whenever the character causes a follower to die, it leads to a penalty to their leadership score, not to mention, followers can be persuaded to be disloyal, whereas believers are loyal to the core.

    Simply put, a Thrallherd's information network will generally be better than a character with Leadership's information network, with less effort.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: The same thing we do every night!

    Quote Originally Posted by HaikenEdge View Post
    It's significantly easier and lower risk, compared to leadership; with leadership, whenever the character causes a follower to die, it leads to a penalty to their leadership score, not to mention, followers can be persuaded to be disloyal, whereas believers are loyal to the core.

    Simply put, a Thrallherd's information network will generally be better than a character with Leadership's information network, with less effort.
    I agree with the loyalty part.
    But there's a feat to remove the penalty for lost followers.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: The same thing we do every night!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwazi Magnum View Post
    I agree with the loyalty part.
    But there's a feat to remove the penalty for lost followers.
    And that's a feat you could be spending on something else.

    A Thrallherd rules the world by manipulation, by being the ruler behind the scenes. What the Thrallerd wants, the Thrallherd gets, by hook, by crook, or by convincing other people it's what they need, and almost no other build can do it with as little investment, since the Thrallherd gets both Psionic Charm and Psionic Dominate for free, and gets the extra creature types to Dominate essentally for free, essentially freeing up the Thrallherd to have a secondary power set that doesn't necessarily rely on manipulation.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The same thing we do every night!

    Note: Death of a follower is a -1 non stacking penalty. Whether it is 1 or 10000000000 it is merely a -1.

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