4.0 stat comparison to 3.5

[StryderH]

My 3.5 campaign is going strong and been going on for about 3 years now.

I was just having fun and looking at d&d supplement books just to have some random fun while my PCs are trying to reach higher levels.

Is there any way to compare a creatures stats from 3.5 to 4.0?

A level 1 skeleton in 4.0 has like.. 21 AC and 60 HP which is insane for a level 1 mob in 3.5.

I wanted to use the Pyramid of Shadows supplement just because it looks kinda fun and we've been doing so much roleplay it would be great to just have a dungeon.

The weakest monsters in this little dungeon are like... 300hp though.

My PCs are only level 7 in 3.5

They could do it if they took every room one at a time and were allowed full healing and spell uses between each room but that doesn't really make the dungeon seem like a dangerous place. Is there some kind of comparisson I can make? Like 3.5 monsters are like.. 2/5ths of a 4.0 monster?

Just an example, I don't think that's how it actually works, but I was wondering.. If not I may just weaken the monsters up a bit depending on how well they do, and have the ACs and HPs be a little more fluid depending on the encounter.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

You effectively have to rewrite all the monsters, because there's no direct math conversion. The math changed completely (and became a bit more consistent).

Here's one sample conversion I found.

It's mainly about figuring out the main point of the class, and working from there. Or ask around the Homebrew forum?

[LordConcrete]

In 4e, you add your Con Mod to your hp which is given to you by your class.
For example your con mod could be ~13 and your hp from class could be ~12.

25 hp at level 1.

Then, you also get weapon proficiency bonuses.
The best weapons give +3 proficiency.

[StryderH]

Thanks for replying :I Maybe I'll just do it more roleplay wise battle..

Like if they try and cleave it's head off and get a natural 20 and only do 8 damage maybe they deserve to kill it anyway

[obryn]

There's no direct conversion, but for almost every common monster there's a 4e equivalent. Encounter budgets and levels differ, though; the "standard" 4e battle is X level Y monsters vs a party of X level Y characters.

[SiuiS]

In 4e, you add your Con Mod to your hp which is given to you by your class.
For example your con mod could be ~13 and your hp from class could be ~12.

25 hp at level 1.

Then, you also get weapon proficiency bonuses.
The best weapons give +3 proficiency.

No, you add your entire Constitution score to HP at level 1, not the mod.
You add the mod (+4 for an 18 con) every level after that.

[obryn]

No, you add your entire Constitution score to HP at level 1, not the mod.
You add the mod (+4 for an 18 con) every level after that.

Nope, neither one is right.

You get a set amount + your Con score at level 1.

You get a set amount based on class, no Con modifier every level afterwards.

You get healing surges based on your class, + your Con modifier.

[Rhynn]

Is there any way to compare a creatures stats from 3.5 to 4.0?

No.

I wanted to use the Pyramid of Shadows supplement just because it looks kinda fun and we've been doing so much roleplay it would be great to just have a dungeon.

So why not just replace the monsters with 3.5 monsters? That ain't hard, dogg.

[Gavran]

Even in 4E's MM1 (regarded as having monsters that take too long to kill and lack offensive power) 21 AC and 60 HP is absurd for a level 1 standard. AC 16 and 40 HP maybe. 4E also employs "minions" that die in one successful hit to increase monster count/damage without the fight dragging on. Not that either of those things means 3.5 math and 4E math work together, but that kind of AC is more appropriate for a level 8 monster...

[holywhippet]

The main reason you can't compare them is because 4th edition was intended to be a different experience than 3rd edition in combat. Monsters and PCs have more HP because fights are intended to go longer. AC and other defenses are lower (for monsters at least) because they wanted more attacks to connect.

In short, they want battles to feel more like an epic struggle compared to 3rd edition where some battles are over quickly because someone pulled out an overpowered combo and wiped out the main enemy then used cleave to clean up the remainder.

[Ashdate]

Is there any way to compare a creatures stats from 3.5 to 4.0?

No.

PC and monster HP values do tend to be higher, but the values are (mostly) balanced off the expected damage output that PCs can do. In fact, nearly all values for monsters (defenses, damage, and bonus to hit being the most important ones) are all directly tied to the monster's level, which is itself tied to PC level directly (one level X monster = one level X PC).

Meanwhile, 3.5 monsters HP values are incredibly variable depending on a monster's class, race, stats, and feats. Additionally, all values (notably, defenses, damage, and bonus) are tied to other variables, many of which are not related to a monster's level in the least. All of this is tied to a difficulty metric (i.e. challenge rating) that is heavily influenced by a monster's hit dice (note: not hit points), and only slightly influenced by a monster's actual abilities. Finally, each monster's CR is tied to several PC levels (one CR X monster = four level X PCs).

It's really apples and oranges.

[Tvtyrant]

...I use them together all the time, basically straight out of the box.

My rule is that a 4E monsters defenses (IE saves) are reduced by 10 and then they roll a D20. At low levels this means monsters have kinda high saves, but at high levels it evens out (Aspect of Lolth vs. Balor for instance.)

In my experience the biggest problem is that 4E monsters do not have attacks effective enough to threaten a 3.5 party. Compare again the Aspect of Lolth and the Balor; the prior has some okay damage with a slowing effect while the latter has the almighty power of Blasphemy.


As a further aside, I never actually realized how health worked in 4E. We always played you got con mod at level 1 and just base health each level after that.

[hamishspence]

I wonder if Strength at least could be correlated?

A 4E character can carry (Str) x 10 lb as a "normal load" with no penalties.
They can lift (Str) x 20 lb off the ground, must use both hands, but are slowed.
They can push or drag (Str) x 50 lb along the ground

A 3.5E character is penalized even by lifting half the maximum they can lift off the ground- this, for them, is a "heavy load".

In addition, the formula seems to be geometric rather than linear.

A Str 10 person can lift 100 lb as a Heavy Load, but a Str 20 person lifts not 200 lb, but 400 lb as a Heavy Load. A Str 30 person lifts 1600 lb. And so on.

Conclusion - while a Str 10 person in 3e and 4e have identical "lift off ground" and "push/drag" limits, the limits will be very different for other Str values.